asciilifeformtherealbitcointrinqueagriculturalsupremacyossasepiaspykedpizarrotrilemaalethepedia
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(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-04#1032788 << last i saw, ffa rendered 100% correctly under turdroid. feel free to crib the html liquishits
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2021-03-04 15:46:34 shinohai: ^ I noticed above behaviour on my toilet lappy running 5.12 kernel asciilifeform ... but hadn't got that far to notice a problem via ffa yet.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: ^ I noticed above behaviour on my toilet lappy running 5.12 kernel asciilifeform ... but hadn't got that far to notice a problem via ffa yet.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: Repair of sabotaged mathematical glyphs in certain Linux distros. << ACHTUNG ffa readers !
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: i'ma update ffa etc. eventually.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: asciilifeform will undertake to give example of what he archives an' why. e.g. bvt's www because he had useful inline asm for ffa. qntra because was a++ chronicle of political events for 6+y.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Sorry asciilifeform gonna hafta stop studying ffa, imma get a REAL education: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/ACTNOW.jpg
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform learned, from the 'extreme popularity' of the ffa articles, 100% of everything he ever wanted to know about the 'cryptography community'
(spyked) feedbot: http://btc.info.gf/blog/mirror-updates-for-ffa.html << btcinfo -- Mirror updates for FFA
(asciilifeform) feedbot: http://btc.info.gf/blog/mirror-updates-for-ffa.html << btcinfo -- Mirror updates for FFA
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ffa wasn't written 'to be interesting to read', but for concrete battlefield applications (which i know trinque to be interested in)
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-18 13:55:56 asciilifeform: trinque: so far it's afaik just you an' me. ( and , sadly, asciilifeform not yet replicated even nao trinque's gcc; and trinque afaik not yet eaten ffa ) and (can't speak for trinque, but only self) stuck doing in 'geological time'
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-18#1029464 I've wanted to give FFA the reading through I'd figure it deserves, but have fallen behind with other work. It puts into the proper perspective for me, asciilifeform, that I somewhat resent my work tending to go ignored, but that I've largely ignored FFA so far.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: trinque: so far it's afaik just you an' me. ( and , sadly, asciilifeform not yet replicated even nao trinque's gcc; and trinque afaik not yet eaten ffa ) and (can't speak for trinque, but only self) stuck doing in 'geological time'
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: so, for instance, there are bug fix patches in ffa. and then there are several people hosting old trees that dun have'em, cuz they tuned out. i do not see these folx as 'attackers'.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ffa is more of a flamethrower against 'i just want to build it' people than anyffin else, arguably
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Heya asciilifeform speaking of yer www, couldja link me to where you have all the seals various folx have signed for ffa ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: the only 'os' knobs presently required by ffa, is a working stack; access to command-line args; and character i/o (read/write console) .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: the output of the dump is used in debugging, and by the htmlizer.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-06 13:28:21 asciilifeform: recently had been looking at the 'ada rts' and its variants (e.g. ave1's) with the aim of eventual 'iron' rts that actually builds stock ffa/peh.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: re auditable binaries -- my eventual goal is to get a completely libc-free substitute gnat rts for use w/ ffa (and potentially other items).
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-12-16 12:11:49 asciilifeform: cgra: neato. (btw, in case wasn't obvious, the gnat used by asciilifeform for ffa work has been glibc-free since ch11)
(asciilifeform) cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-16#1026187 << asciilifeform, wasn't aware of exact details when, but i assumed musl-based, yeah. also, personally already had to drop a handful of ffa's restrictions, and tweak a ffa build param, because so far i've been using the gnat in ubuntu 16.04, which is older than the adacore 2016
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: neato. (btw, in case wasn't obvious, the gnat used by asciilifeform for ffa work has been glibc-free since ch11)
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: thimbronion: it aint even a language problem, necessarily. recall, very same spandrell, had a piece where some usg stooge published a treatise on chinese affairs, and folx reacted 'it is 100% correct, rather like bbc english is to english, but no one in actual china would ever phrase the subject anything like he did' or how was it.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: s8ori: i hate to disappoint, but this chan has very little to do with ascii-art. though i can't say i never had occasion to draw any.
(asciilifeform) deedbot: asciilifeform rated cgra 3 << careful, attentive student of FFA & TRB. inquire in #asciilifeform.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: !!rate cgra 3 careful, attentive student of FFA & TRB. inquire in #asciilifeform.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: whether or not this were so, ffa wins nothing from the use of small exponent (unlike e.g. gpg and other heathen arithmetrons)
(asciilifeform) cgra: asciilifeform: what did you have in mind re public exponent, for ffa keygen?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-11-20 10:28:26 cgra: i walked through 'ffa_w_borrow_expr.kv.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig' byte by byte, and also stared at 'pgpdump -il <sigfile>' of the same file
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: i get , via ./litmus.sh asciilifeform.peh ffa_w_borrow_expr.kv.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig ffa_w_borrow_expr.kv.vpatch : VALID GPG RSA signature from asciilifeform <stas@loper-os.org>
(asciilifeform) cgra: in 'ffa_w_borrow_expr.kv.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig' the 'rsa packet' coincides with a unhashed sub-packet section. the two hash bytes and a signature section comes after that
(asciilifeform) cgra: i walked through 'ffa_w_borrow_expr.kv.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig' byte by byte, and also stared at 'pgpdump -il <sigfile>' of the same file
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: thimbronion: wondered about the horsepower on these vs. the traditional x86. try build ffa on it!
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: i did write a script for verifying classic gpg sigs w/ ffa. and there's another (presently unpublished) one for converting pubkeys. but i do not intend to continue using my old key after completion of ffa, no.
(asciilifeform) cgra: asciilifeform: if one wanted to switch to ffa once it matures, would there be any point in 'converting' the old gpg identity, or just need a fresh key?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-11-18 14:59:52 asciilifeform: update re ch14 : cgra's statement was correct, indeed only need to ignore the carry. the test tapes also pass ( though had to change the tapespace limit to actually run'em)
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-11-17 10:02:06 cgra: as a side note, a 256-bit test tape "10k_shots_256bit_ffa_slid_rnd.tape" also bombs the same way on me
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: update re ch14 : cgra's statement was correct, indeed only need to ignore the carry. the test tapes also pass ( though had to change the tapespace limit to actually run'em)
(asciilifeform) cgra: asciilifeform: how much do you have currently half-complete material for ffa?
(asciilifeform) cgra: as a side note, a 256-bit test tape "10k_shots_256bit_ffa_slid_rnd.tape" also bombs the same way on me
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: I think of FFA when I think of RISC-V, as mine approach to addition would take pains to use the hardware carry, but RISC-V lacks a hardware carry bit.
(asciilifeform) mats: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-intelligence-benefited-from-cia-crypto-spying-affair/46153706
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: i gotta go shortly, but do not hesitate to throw ffaisms into the log, i promise to answer'em in detail asap.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in e.g. multiplication, i used explicit 'Lo' and 'Hi' to denote. prolly oughta retrofit same convention to earlier ch's.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: as i wrote ffa, i pictured registers as physical objects, and rotated'em as-req'd in my head.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: as you read, make a list of cases like this, i'ma consider'em for stylistic fix prior to (future) dead-tree ver. of ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: cgra: in principle, it would be possible to do all of ffa in standing-on-head order -- e.g. in add/sub, decrement loops instead of increment, and so on. but ~why~ .
(asciilifeform) cgra: asciilifeform: i've taken a break from trb study and sat on your FFA course bench
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( which is not to say that various folx haven't done it on own free will , on occasion )
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-17 09:15:49 adlai: ... when I daydream about "what gifts of executable deedbot poetry can I send alf", a cl response to that post is higher priority than brushing dust off the printouts of early FFA chapters (these exist!)
(asciilifeform) adlai: ... when I daydream about "what gifts of executable deedbot poetry can I send alf", a cl response to that post is higher priority than brushing dust off the printouts of early FFA chapters (these exist!)
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
(asciilifeform) adlai: I mean "dirty word" in the sense that this conversation included FFA, just a few screenfulls ago, so 'prove' means much more than just "screenshot of my account; screenshot of friend's account; look, exchange is scammer!"
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: adlai: ftr btw the only mathematics used in ffa is of the kind taught in grade school.
(asciilifeform) adlai: FFA seems, from slightly more than arms' length away, to be an exercise in Ada, not mathematics; although, I may be quite mistaken!
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: adlai: or , if feeling mathematical, help find mistakes in ffa, for instance.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: looking fwd to replacing my gnatology dir w/ the civilized gnat, likewise
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-03 20:39:01 asciilifeform: phc: i suspect that you may be gravely confused. this chan is not about ascii art ( tho i am not averse to ascii art... )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: phc: i suspect that you may be gravely confused. this chan is not about ascii art ( tho i am not averse to ascii art... )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: my approach to the q, ftr.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-31 13:10:54 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform considered in past, and may consider again, to put btc bounties on finding mistakes in ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: at some pt, i'ma put bounties on defects in ffa. but prolly not this yr.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform considered in past, and may consider again, to put btc bounties on finding mistakes in ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-25#1020421 << i might do a ru ver. of ffa at some pt. thing is, most cultured ru folx (just like fr, cn, etc) know enuff english to read technical lit. so i have not made translation a priority.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: oblig. example of conditional compilation in ffa.
(asciilifeform) Aerthean: Thanks for the work you've done on FFA and your other writings.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( for readers who aren't trinque , basic review : originally vtrees tended to look like e.g. this. whereas w/ 'manifest.txt' they can only diverge if the latter is diverged upon, e.g. like this. )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: for instance when asciilifeform was writing ffa, found existing bignum libs to be ~worse than useless~ as references.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-18 19:55:54 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: 'slimmed' is prolly gonna end up being 'per proggy' for foreseeable future. e.g. ffa is even nao too 'fat' to build on ave1's cut-down rts, cuz it uses ...'Image , Ada.Sequential_IO, etc.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: for yet-further ref -- glibcistic gnat rts weighs ~1MB; musltronic -- 300k; a theoretically minimal (per ffa) one would weight coupla kB.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform recently had been looking at the 'ada rts' and its variants (e.g. ave1's) with the aim of eventual 'iron' rts that actually builds stock ffa/peh.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: newland0: nuffin stops anyone from placing timestamps in the text. in fact, custom for a while has been to place btc block #s in manifest.txt .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: if asciilifeform , like some of his critics, had been sitting on $millions, could've entirely wrapped up ffa in '17. but 'if wishes were horses' etc.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: verisimilitude: at one time i published ffa 1/ch/wk like clockwork. then at one pt no longer could (day job ate time) and this caused epic wank, began the process whereby broke up w/ mp et al
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: Without a schedule, it's far too easy to let goals slip by; from now, I'm going to aim for one chapter of FFA weekly, asciilifeform.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: otoh, e.g. ffa was built vtronically from birth.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: ffa-style bignum worx on whatever bus width. the issue is horsepower.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: 1, 2, possibly elsewhere (they actually did an ok job cutting the thing into orthogonal pieces for reuse in the various sha* variants)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( ftr : 1 easy litmus re which 1 you have, is whether current ffa builds )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( see also re subj )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: this kinda thing is why there will be no escape from actually disasming/auditing any safety-critical item actually built w/ gnat (this is the 'secret' of why asciilifeform used maximally strict subset of the lang in ffa -- i.e. prohibited secondary stack, etc. -- to get lean binary)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform at one pt had genericism in ffa, prior to 1st published draft ch's; rewrote to abolish it.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in ffa i did not, specifically because wanted to be able to test 32b variant on 64b irons etc
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ftr ffa starting from ch. 11 tested exclusively on ave1's gnat.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( for thread-completeness : complete snapshot of ave1's gnat in htmlized form, for further ref. )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: trinque: it aint case-mutilated, is legitimately as-printed (see ln. 45). but for sumreason yer gnat aint seeing System.* . either brokn paths, dud includes, or missing flag. what was being built (and w/ what ? ) ?
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: By the by, asciilifeform, I like that advertisemetn for FFA now on loper-os.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch21a_bis_fix_ch15_gcd.kv/tree/ffa/libffa/ffa.ads << similar.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: speaking of vtrees, ty phf .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: (orig. ru meme character, where 'sumthing happens By Magick', he appears only 1nce in ffa, at the point of the most difficult, imho, lemma )
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Hey asciilifeform love the woosh cat thing you made for ffa =^.^=
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in other finds, phf updates his www w/ new logotron patch. hey phf, since yer tuned in, canhaz update of ffa snapshot also ? ty
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-18 19:55:54 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: trinque: as for me, at finally picked back up docs for ffa ch21 , after lengthy break
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform in fact considered to write a dead-tree ada text w/ ffa as the base material. but from commercial pov such projects are massively -ev .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: neither ffa nor any other software will do idjit any good. esp. if he insists on stuffing it into a 'smart'pnoje-cum-nsa-os & similar.
(asciilifeform) gregorynyssa: but the FFA project is turning this into a reality. (=
(therealbitcoin) asciilifeform: jurov: ffa builds on rk as of '18
(therealbitcoin) jurov: maybe if ffa was ported somehow...
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: e.g. ffa sadly dun fit in 1-2pg
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: but deliberately leaving this alone until wrap up ffa
(trinque) asciilifeform: trinque: i expect will be very easy to glue into a bot. (may be hard sell for some folx who haven't read ffa, tho)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: 'cryostat' incidentally aint for use in ffa/peh, but for experiments in throwing out trb's lame db.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: re os knobs, the only ones used in ffa/peh are command line param eater, and opener of rng device. errything else is device-agnostic. (i.e. will run anywhere with a reasonably large memory for stack)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: fwiw i have an unreleased ver. of ffa for embedded boxen, where does not rely on linux knobs.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in yet-other cases (e.g. command line param handling), the functionality exists in standard gnat but is incompat. w/ restricted compilation profiles as-written.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: and not even necessarily speaking of 'exotica' e.g. mmap. even bit shifts were omitted from the standard.
(therealbitcoin) snsabot: (asciilifeform) 2020-05-22 asciilifeform: on that subj, in other noose, asciilifeform has a working ada mmap lib. will genesis after cleanup. (found the magick pill for this old item while reading gnat docs during ffaism..)
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-05-22 19:16:01 asciilifeform: on that subj, in other noose, asciilifeform has a working ada mmap lib. will genesis after cleanup. (found the magick pill for this old item while reading gnat docs during ffaism..)
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-06-04 04:11:35 adlai: unlike most mystic mathematicians and seekers of the unsnuffable flame, I actually do not have much interest in volunteering to chase these metaphorical oil spills, although I am glad that someone at least knows where the garbage went.
(asciilifeform) adlai: unlike most mystic mathematicians and seekers of the unsnuffable flame, I actually do not have much interest in volunteering to chase these metaphorical oil spills, although I am glad that someone at least knows where the garbage went.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: I should revisit FFA, but I'd need to reread everything I've read so far, by now.
(asciilifeform) shinohai imagines feeding a fortran ffa puchcards ......
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: funnily enuff i orig. considered fortran for ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in ffa tests, gets approx. 1/2 the performance of asciilifeform's opteron. which on <5watt is imho nifty.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: adlai: it strikes me as a 'work 12h/d to make min.wage while you sleep!' kind of affair. and yes, it is to yer credit that you never tried to sell etc. but still , rly, why to bother ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: trinque: ftr i wrapped up the design for the 'atomic fg' in nov. -- but put on ice, would like to polish off beta ver. of ffa 1st.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: on that subj, in other noose, asciilifeform has a working ada mmap lib. will genesis after cleanup. (found the magick pill for this old item while reading gnat docs during ffaism..)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: verisimilitude: sadly no 'magic' dates. for 1st half yr of ffa, i had buncha material pre-written and queued up for fridays, but this fell apart when ran out of 'canned' and into gnarly unsolved things
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: (aaand then also dun have to be concerned w/ whether there's a barrel shifter, if there aint one , the subword qshifts gotta be used, if yer shift amt is variable )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( subj: left , right )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: the qshifts , for ref.
(asciilifeform) PeterL: there is not currently a FZ_rotate in FFA, right?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: meanwhile, preview of patched gnathtml.pl. will be included w/ next ffa ch.
(therealbitcoin) asciilifeform: he aint dead; snarfed up e.g. ch20d not so long ago. but not answering mailz.
(therealbitcoin) asciilifeform: for illustration, compare this to that .
(therealbitcoin) asciilifeform: for my part, i'ma rip out the ssl crapola an' replace w/ ffa. (dunno if anyone ~else~ wants such a trb, but i'm personally tired of sslism)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( direct links, e.g. like-so, ~do~ work on 'lynx'. but to make thing embeddable in wp article, gotta have the frame.. )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: meanwhile, sneak preview of toy from ch21b . if anyone tries and finds doesn't work, plz lemme know $browser etc .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform for colourization of 'diff', would like sumething like what phf had . but no src was ever, grr, published for it...
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: btw billymg iirc you asked to see the peh colourizer. it's in ch21c patch, but since delayed this (had to do the 15 fix) will post nao.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: billymg: reminds me, at one pt i wanted to fix 'gnat2htm' so that all (rather than ~some~, as currently, and for no logical reason...) lines in the output are anchorable
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: e.g. ffa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: prolly w/ just the ffa-related junk , thinking about it.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: prolly would've discovered this earlier, if any other ffaisms in fact depended on conventional gcd.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: for my part, i have a miniscule x86 thing that boots a box into 'ffa over rs232' but aint ready for primetime.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: i had hardwarisms going, put'em on ice for the time being, to bring ffa to where can be used in anger
(asciilifeform) trinque: I have been sweating over an owned distro these past months, and working through FFA atop it is next on my conveyor.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform meanwhile found a 2x speedup for the constant-time ffaized version. will be rewriting.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if yer verifying sigs in realtime with something other than ffa (or own proggy written w/ same algos) and enemy has access to any evidence of operation lag time, yer key will be factored.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: for thread-completeness: full list of what's disabled in ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: for that matter most of ada does not assume existence of heap. e.g. ffa runs w/ heap disabled .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: my ffa plan includes eventual port to that machine, for pocket-sized rsatronics.
(ossasepia) cruciform: !!v E5EB00FBA8000C7D9E6CF7758777390D7EAFFA06BF4F038E91621BE7564033B6
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: i refuse to bake any such presumptions into ffa .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ftr i like bvt. he did an entirely decent job in e.g. asm massage for ffa , an' i'ma roll it into my tree as an optional branch when errything else is shelf-stable
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: (there is however no use of gnumake in ffa; instead uses the much saner 'gprbuild' mechanism that comes in gnat)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: (you get a libFFA.a)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: fwiw this is what gnat does internally when building ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: still tuned into ffa ?
(trinque) asciilifeform: trinque: on my ffa box, i in fact went straight to using ave1's binary package, after which built ave1's src with it, have been using ever since
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( the current v.pl presses e.g. ffa correctly. so nfi what gives. )
(asciilifeform) shinohai: re: ffa currently almost finished w ch6, never got word if you mirrored 5 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2071#comment-19871
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-03-09 16:02:00 asciilifeform: or, iirc shinohai was doing the ffa exercises? what happened to that ?
(asciilifeform) shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-03-09#1008548 << still doing ffa, most of past few weeks since the last time we discussed spent nursing sick womenfolk.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: or, iirc shinohai was doing the ffa exercises? what happened to that ?
(ossasepia) jfw: diana_coman: because I'm ffa'ing it apparently, "can't possibly cut elephant into more manageable bites". Published nao.
(trilema) dorion: !!v 7D1625840FAB9AB4BFFAF0C2667D615243A5ECF0D18B2C143E2F55F712F032CD
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: sha512==bebfd877d7bc1e8790d6dba1a0d41b0fa591884bd07c3b08ed55b1ae87f470a707c168bafe7c070e38a9a85c762a02b3361c07eb56bc981ecffa86940ef9aa16
(ossasepia) ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 15:19:07 MrMeseekx: I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic.
(ossasepia) MrMeseekx: I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic.
(ossasepia) jfw: dorion: that might come later, but I've already "passively absorbed" through eg. ffa and eucrypt's keccak and I think I need to get in the writing-things-myself practice, seeing & sorting through all the errors, getting the language constructs into long-term memory, to get much out of further reading.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: I only started Lisp journey ~4 years ago, Ada much more recent, my only experience there learning as I go with asciilifeform 's ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: ffa wouldn't help appreciably, against this. in fact all medicine -- powerless.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Oh? I missed the part where "use eucrypt" instead of ffa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: unrelatedly, it seems that phf is alive -- and updated patch display! ty phf. plz consider visit to #a !
(asciilifeform) snsabot: (trilema) 2018-10-25 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865735 << i took a stab at this 2y ago, was very frustrating on acct of asic-baking not being a 'cash and carry' process like e.g. pcb-baking, but a heavily meat-powered affair where the derps want to 'get to know you' to figure out how much they can fleece
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( bvt was able to give 3.5x speedup on x86 via asm massage but this still not anywhere close to 'realtime 1G/s nic' )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ideally would have simply a mipslike with ultrawide alu (which would obsolete good 80% of ffa by weight) but no existing fpga is large enuff to house this.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: mike_c: my long-term aim is to publish exactly such ffa (i.e. hand-compiled, commented) for certain archs; and eventually to offer irons with same in rom.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in principle ffa is quite easy to 'human compile' to asm for $arch of choice, as there is no use of 'clever' lang features
(asciilifeform) mike_c: the ada in the chapters is easy, but i'm interested in understanding ada better than the demands of the ffa walkthrough
(asciilifeform) mike_c: alf - let me tell you, it's not a straight line. read ffa, go read more about Ada, read ffa, go learn more math.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: heya mike_c ... congrats on favourable ruling from the fuhrer, and gl with ffa !
(asciilifeform) mike_c: hey bingo. alf, not up to much of interest except working my way through ffa chapters.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: what ch. are you at in ffa ?
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Right now my focus has been on ffa and own things. Will look up the ecdsa piece when free time permits.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: it is the only 'officially supported' gnat for ffa.
(asciilifeform) Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: fwiw the latest GNAT from Adacore doesn't build ffa_ch1, apparently "Inline_Always" is declared too late
(asciilifeform) Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: what's the state-of-the-art V implementation that you would recommend to build the FFAtron ? I understand there are many versions and not all of them support Keccak
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: in list of folx who are emitting sha1 sigs : [www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch1_genesis.kv.vpatch.bvt.sig][bvt] .
(asciilifeform) shinohai: ~/devel/ada # ./litmus.sh wot/diana_coman.peh ffa_ch1_genesis.kv.vpatch.diana_coman.sig patches/ffa_ch1_genesis.kv.vpatch
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Saved your .peh key and mine to http://btc.info.gf/devel/ada/ffa/wot/
(asciilifeform) shinohai: ~/devel/Ada # ./litmus.sh wot/shinohai.peh seals/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.kv.vpatch.shinohai.sig patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.kv.vpatch
(asciilifeform) Apocalyptic is far from having a working FFAtron
(trilema) ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-04 09:01:11 mircea_popescu: i dunno, the part where people of reddit are grandstanding offa imaginary high moral grounds re imaginary "child porn"... whole fucking alt-trilema that's reddit exists because of their unmitigated love for child porn. if it weren't for that dedication, the spearhead of unlaid dorkitude'd still be called digg.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: i dunno, the part where people of reddit are grandstanding offa imaginary high moral grounds re imaginary "child porn"... whole fucking alt-trilema that's reddit exists because of their unmitigated love for child porn. if it weren't for that dedication, the spearhead of unlaid dorkitude'd still be called digg.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( re the ~concrete~ algos in ffa -- for each of them it is quite easy to determine the complexity, because where there is iteration, its count depends strictly on the ~bitness~ of the input, and never on the input per se )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: in principle any algo can be rewritten 'in constant time', 'simply' make sure it always runs in worst case. in actual practice sometimes not obvious how to do this (esp. given that in ffa, also want ~constant space~, so gotta prove the spatial bounds of all intermediate ops)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: if you're trying the algo in e.g. python, you gotta remember that the bitness of arithmetizer in which M can be 2^64, in ffa is 128.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: current ffa/peh lacks hashing so cannot yet advertise 'replace gpg universally'
(asciilifeform) shinohai: As far as creating a "public" rsa key, just have to have ffa calculate your "N" and "E" neh?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: for my part i've a draft of ffa-powered verifier for legacy gpg sigs (presently, only detached sigs, as used in vtrons) but also needs moar massage before posting ( and in particular, human-readable explanation of how sawed apart the format, the published docs were of ~0 help, had to vivisect the koch turd)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform will bbl. will happily answer any an' all q's mike_c may have re ffa, when come back.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ffa ain't limited to rsa, however; is general-purpose numerics-in-constant-spacetime kit.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: mike_c: i rec to read ch1 of ffa series, won't take long, to get a feel for the approach.
(asciilifeform) mike_c: ffa?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: mike_c: that's ffa , as it is.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-31 14:24:59 diana_coman: fwiw and as previously stated in #t quite publicly at that, I still find for instance FFA just as before: a gem (or a pearl, perhaps that's the subtle clarification)
(ossasepia) ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-21 17:03:29 bvt: diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href)
(ossasepia) bvt: diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href)
(trilema) mp_en_viaje: in the east, the "mobster" has a buncha girlies in tow that are "coo at hair theory, inc". still, you sit down with them to talk business if fucked in the head only.
(trilema) jfw: !!v 5C14A1306AAE9FFAFA022C333F51410201693496F3C601CABB55D59705518A2C
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-08#1003415 << he has a static gnat; and in fact it is the official test gnat system for e.g. all ffa starting w/ ch. 11 .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: diana_coman: the other reason for wwwistic patch viewer, is so as to link to lines of proggy. presently i have an extremely ugly hack for this.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: I've been busy past few months trying to organise all the patches/seals for stuff I use in single place. So have, e.g. trb ffa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: realized, when reading, that i'ma need extended-euclidean in ffa ( and not only for eccisms, but e.g. cramer-shoup )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: jfw: but if you do get to ffa i'ma very readily help, dun hesitate to ask q's here & in www comments.
(asciilifeform) jfw: asciilifeform: cool, I do look forward to getting back to ffa reading; I might need to make a less crazy schedule happen first.
(asciilifeform) ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 00:46:06 asciilifeform: has been reading jfw's proggy. e.g. this is pretty interesting -- apparently fella not only read ffa series ( how far didja read, jfw ? ) but in fact did sumthing constructive !
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( even to run on plain ffa, rather than in peh proper, would need this. e.g. what is max bitness of 'scalar*' output ? )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform has been reading jfw's proggy. e.g. this is pretty interesting -- apparently fella not only read ffa series ( how far didja read, jfw ? ) but in fact did sumthing constructive !
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what kinda riot is a 'weekend affair' ?! iirc bmore burned for 2wks straight..
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: re vpatches thread folx, ftr mp's right -- not 1 of e.g. the ffa patches took asciilifeform moar than ~3min for vdiff, testpress, sign. 1000x moar time spent to actually write & document, always.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: anyway, this is then a mpwp guffaw, should evidently stick to one convention.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( which would eliminate need for von neumann ffa as it was )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: there's actually nuffin 'machine-married' in ffa as it stands. but for practical use on battery-powered toys needs proper asmisms.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: re adaism , i have a kilometre of ffa material in backlog also ( keccak; integration of bvt's asmisms ; cookbooks for rsa & cs key gen ; standalone util. form ; mips port ; others. )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform spent quite long time, prior to writing ffa, looking for 'bignum lib' that 'oughta exist, surely, somewhere'. 100% barf .
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Working through ch.4 of ffa, polishing up bot, a few other mundane tasks. Yerself?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: now in sadder news : the problem i have here is that i am traveling. i very carefully introduced stationary windows to be able to look after affairs, but we're just about four weeks into the current one, which is thereby drawing to a close.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: asciilifeform's ch.4 ffa puzzle kinda fun, imma need moar coffee on this. ^.^
(ossasepia) jfw: ahh. And I'll note that "don't get lost in FFA right now, finish on what we've got" was advised by dorion.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2019-11-19 02:43:58 asciilifeform: shinohai: you may find interesting (supposing not already eaten) diana_coman's notes re ch. 1--4.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: shinohai: you may find interesting (supposing not already eaten) diana_coman's notes re ch. 1--4.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: !!v 0E74CD863EADBE376B0DF82324C514D7FB897E0B9B4FFA571365C62877FE63FE
(asciilifeform) dorion: so the whole affair was your only masochism ?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: (trilema) 2019-07-16 asciilifeform: in re ffa : ch20 and most of 21 written. but all of it paused atm , making detailed map/plan.
(ossasepia) ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-06 11:00:06 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: There's two ways they could be shipped. One is that I haven't tested them to see if they work, I put a value on the export paper with fedex under 200 USD because the machine's functonality is uncertain. They other way is I test the machine, declare a reasonable market value, pay a Dispachante de Aduanas ~350 to do export paperwork, and that... makes shipping a roughly ~700 USD affair per machine.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: diana_coman, people use all sorta lulz, "encrypted drives" whatever nonsense. it's a ridiculous state of affairs, but it's what we god, what can we do.
(trilema) diana_coman: 2. FFA use/integration
(ossasepia) BingoBoingo: diana_coman: There's two ways they could be shipped. One is that I haven't tested them to see if they work, I put a value on the export paper with fedex under 200 USD because the machine's functonality is uncertain. They other way is I test the machine, declare a reasonable market value, pay a Dispachante de Aduanas ~350 to do export paperwork, and that... makes shipping a roughly ~700 USD affair per machine.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: what mod6 might like to know, however, is that asciilifeform aint through. a batch of new FG is happening in '20. trb work will continue -- here. phuctor will stand up 1nce i'm done buying brand new ssd for its machine. ffa will continue -- here. the q is whether mod6 is interested in participating. or would rather rubashov.
(spyked) feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/24/proposed-change-to-w_borrow-ffa/ << Ossa Sepia -- Proposed Change to W_Borrow (FFA)
(spyked) feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/ << Ossa Sepia -- Reading Notes on FFA Ch1 - Ch4
(spyked) feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/29/overview-of-ffa-ch1-ch19/ << Ossa Sepia -- Overview of FFA Ch1 - Ch19
(trilema) feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/29/overview-of-ffa-ch1-ch19/ << Ossa Sepia -- Overview of FFA Ch1 - Ch19
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: for readers : diana_coman, incidentally is the only, to date, fully diploma'd grad of ffa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: diana_coman: then yer in the right place; all ffaism q&a w/ asciilifeform henceforth will take place here.
(asciilifeform) ossabot: (trilema) 2019-10-30 diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I suppose there is also the same question applied potentially to the FG and FFA then; but fwiw I digested FFA as well as I could and I still think it is a gem, perhaps a pearl better put: quite the result of successive spinnings/polishings
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: fwiw and as previously stated in #t quite publicly at that, I still find for instance FFA just as before: a gem (or a pearl, perhaps that's the subtle clarification)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: lobbes: re eulora -- i still find it puzzling , just where did i get the cylinder of hypnosis gas, and how piped it into diana_coman and mp , so they picked up mpi, then ada, then ffa, ada-udp, etc. given obv. 'high cost'.
(asciilifeform) ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-30 14:40:29 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It seems the conversative, detailed lens you bring that allows you to produce gems like FFA is damaging to other sorts of tasks. MP, after trying to get you to try on some other lenses for years when looking at other things, has decided he can't tell if your conservatism is an unchangable force of nature or something else. For this reason, and the fact your conservatism seems to be surviving t
(asciilifeform) BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It seems the conversative, detailed lens you bring that allows you to produce gems like FFA is damaging to other sorts of tasks. MP, after trying to get you to try on some other lenses for years when looking at other things, has decided he can't tell if your conservatism is an unchangable force of nature or something else. For this reason, and the fact your conservatism seems to be surviving this crisis, he wants to
(trilema) diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I suppose there is also the same question applied potentially to the FG and FFA then; but fwiw I digested FFA as well as I could and I still think it is a gem, perhaps a pearl better put: quite the result of successive spinnings/polishings


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