cdd: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-14#1065920 << I think I'll opt for this for the time being. I'm considering doing a "tar -czf" of the encounter. Perhaps writing a piece on the history of bitcoin.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-14 23:49:14 asciilifeform: cdd: if yer impatient, here's an mp flunkie's 'interview' of asciilifeform following the latter's expulsion from mp's imaginary empire
bonechewer: All of the above nonwithstanding, my contention is simply that there is a worthwhile point on the continuum between pest and offline paper OTP
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-14#1065927 << yeah, nbd. I made the deed outputs spend way less coin. no sense in burning 60 bucks per or w/e it'd have been now.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-14 23:50:41 asciilifeform: oh ha signpost , is it doubled up cuz i fired it twice ?
signpost: regarding the confirmation on !!deed, it was aimed at the wrong channel, will happen going forward.
asciilifeform: ty for repairing deedbot, signpost ! will be very handy going fwd.
signpost: also, added a link to whaack's explorer for txn info
asciilifeform: cdd: there's literally 100+MB of txt you'd have to eat before had even faint hope of 'writing a history' that won't make e.g. the already dead mp die again of laffter, along w/ the remaining living folx
asciilifeform: ( in fact not long ago we already had a fella show up who wanted 'write history', seems like choked )
signpost: cdd: sweetheart why don't you read for longer than a few days before writing history of the world, part 2
signpost: rizzo's shitpoasting on twitter
asciilifeform: signpost: tmsr-themed shite, or generic ?
bonechewer: And an airgapped, portable OTPtron vulnerable only to TEMPEST is a worthwhile intermediate point that should exist; should at least be specced out in adequate detail to permit work on one to get underway.
signpost: nope, lots of taproot shit lately https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_
signpost mighty entertained that this entire branch of history is written atop anyonecanspend
asciilifeform: bonechewer: the problem with (as i understand from prev thrd) your approach, is that 'legoware' is a 100% dead end, it cannot be turned into sane systems, and especially not by the types of folx who accept legoware to start with
cdd: signpost: It was a "perhaps" not an absolute. I'm just interested in what happened here, not a fucking twittertard here to shill opinions and post shit.
signpost: cdd: btw n00b rating is an honor. you are unaware of the cultural context.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: likewise, the cost differential b/w lego and sanity is 2-3 usd zeroes, and the temptation to cut those 0s is virtually irresistible unless yer a self-destructive fanatic like asciilifeform circa '14-15
signpost: (tiny honor, but honor!)
signpost: cdd: just saying much happened, quite worth reading.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: for background info, the cost of fabricating the 1st 100 FGs was ~5k usd. and that's not counting asciilifeform's time , or 1st microbatch of prototypes with defective solder joins , asciilifeform's microscopy time and fight w/ the board people, etc etc
asciilifeform: or the 500+hrs of exhaustive burn-in testing, or, or.
asciilifeform: and that's for a simple-as-hammer, comparatively, item, that was merely a rather slow rng !
asciilifeform: i.e. a tool which pisses trng bits at ~7kB/s outta serial line.
asciilifeform: today that 5k would be 10-15, post-hyperinflation (and counting)
asciilifeform: and not to mention parts shortages.
asciilifeform: and you'll sell 5-6.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1065976 << this's the right attitude -- could in fact learn sumthing.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 00:06:39 cdd: signpost: It was a "perhaps" not an absolute. I'm just interested in what happened here, not a fucking twittertard here to shill opinions and post shit.
signpost afk, will catch up on logs properly tomorrow.
asciilifeform to bed soon
cdd: asciilifeform: In the name of your de-anonymization I'll doxx myself a bit, if it helps.
asciilifeform must to bed, will answer any q's tomorrow
cdd: I'm an 18yo moron who "discovered" for lack of a better term, the marvels of lisp-machines, cybernetics and a window to the world that our founding forefathers (greybeards, hackers and fools alike) left behind.
bonechewer: good night, asciilifeform. And I'll continue to naively hope that if a sane airgapped OTPtron can get specced and designed, it'll get built, even if not on my own nickel
cdd: I'm here, talking in this channel and asking questions because I want to learn. So I'd like to implore you to excuse my mediocracy, and understand it's taken a substantial amount of effort to break away from the vices and fools that plague my age group.
cdd: As it stands, my love for computers is slowly dwindling of the cusp of death due to the indecent fuckery of the modern "education" system.
cdd: s/of/and at/
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1065995 << all 18yo are "morons", don't worry about that
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 00:16:37 cdd: I'm an 18yo moron who "discovered" for lack of a better term, the marvels of lisp-machines, cybernetics and a window to the world that our founding forefathers (greybeards, hackers and fools alike) left behind.
punkman: there has been no progress on this stack of shit we call a computer, since before you were born
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 01:05:43 punkman: there has been no progress on this stack of shit we call a computer, since before you were born
cdd: Fucking millennials.
punkman: funny how niche "bitcoin magazine" article, is now to be found on cnbc
punkman: "The Taproot update means greater transaction privacy and efficiency – and crucially, it will unlock the potential for smart contracts, which can be used to eliminate middlemen from transactions. "
punkman: "It is a rare moment of consensus among stakeholders, and it’s a big deal for the world’s most popular cryptocurrency. "
punkman: lol "NYC Mayor-elect Eric Adams vows to take his first three paychecks in bitcoin"
thimbronion: shinohai: in case you couldn't see in #pest: were you able to verify whether the bot is or isn't receiving messages at both the pest level and the IRC level?
thimbronion: For ex, the above message shows up in my logs as: 2021-11-15 06:43:11.311144 [188.8.131.52:7778] <- 0bbe29dda41c1f9c. You should be able to see that hex number with the arrow going the other way in your log.
thimbronion: 2021-11-15 06:43:11.281190 [127.0.0.1:53954] -> "PRIVMSG #pest :shinohai: were you able to verify whether the bot is or isn't receiving messages at both the pest level and the IRC level?\r\n" <-- this is what the irc message from my irc client to the pest station looks like in my log.
shinohai: thimbronion: unpeered bot from myself then manually added key, etc using weechat. Restarted bot. It still spits out msg: 2021-11-15 11:50:55.736051 Discarding message to unknown handle or handle with no key
thimbronion: oooooh interesting
shinohai: Now in bot's logs it *sees me calling messages* and prints 'em to the log. Somehow there is no longer a channel in the field it's supposed to be in - and this behavior persists even when I moved bot back to older version of blatta.
shinohai: Bot also doesn't respond to DM's, so nfi
thimbronion: shinohai: when you do /wot busybot, is there a key in the response?
shinohai: yup there is ket there
thimbronion: shinohai: can you paste a logline of the command missing the channel field from both the IRC client and the pest station broadcast?
thimbronion: ftr billymg it's possible your bot can't handle irc messages with the optional prefix set to only the nick: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1459#section-2.3.1. In blatta versions prior to 9989 this value was being set to nick@ip.
thimbronion: Because who would ever not want to share their IP with the whole world?
jonsykkel: someone pear me on blatta i wana test
billymg: shinohai: looks like you figured out how to get your bot working, what was the change?
shinohai: billymg: It 'twas as awt said - he removed the `user@host` bit from client.py and now only prints user.
shinohai: I still have some bot fiddling to do to get it to respond to DM's tho
cgra: i wonder if my brain was revving backwards, when i came up with this, because now i can't find sense in it. did asciilifeform grasp? :P
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-12 08:54:46 cgra: asciilifeform: haven't tested this, but i suspect that an obey_sendbuffersize node (A), when catching up blocks, may end up banning peer (B) with >2x the sendbuffersize, if B advertises blocks with full capacity, in response to A's "getblocks"
asciilifeform: cgra: it made sense: an unpatched (or patched with higher permissible sendbuffer length) noad may end up banned by a patched one where max sendbuffer is smaller
asciilifeform: cgra: didn't turn out to be a problem in practice -- trb-compat. nodes don't spam multi-dozen-MB contin. sends.
asciilifeform operates 2 noads w/ the patch, and had 0 serious sync problems since patching in feb. 2020.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-02-27 10:44:22 asciilifeform: attn trb operators: 184.108.40.206 is nao running mod6's latest variant, augmented with this experimental patch (my sig thereof ) .
asciilifeform: meanwhile, unrelatedly, in covidiocy: 1 2
cgra: asciilifeform: if A is catching up blocks, B isn't going to send getdata to A (and trigger the obey_sendbuffersize check), but the other way around. is why i'm confused atm
asciilifeform: cgra: indeed it's the other way around
asciilifeform: cgra: trb simply doesn't send massive getdatas : it's 'headers-first sync' prb nodes which do this.
cgra: so how does A end up banning B then, if no getdata comes from B?
asciilifeform: (well that an' 'wedger.py, lol)
asciilifeform: cgra: A bans B if B sends massive getdata.
asciilifeform: if B is a trb-compat. noad -- it won't, simply
asciilifeform: hence wai no prob to date.
signpost: anecdotally, I had chest pains for months after the vax
cgra: asciilifeform: i'm referring specifically to my earlier claim -- there's this 2x sendbuffersize thing too. i know trb sends only that many blocks what its sendbuffersize can hold. and also seen how prb streams in 500 block bursts
signpost: went away by now
asciilifeform: signpost: interesting
asciilifeform: signpost: lucky you weren't a heavy athlete, lol
asciilifeform: cgra: aha
signpost: lol no sir
cgra: asciilifeform: i mean, i know trb ~offers~ that many blocks at a time, it could send in one go
signpost stays fit enough that folks can't tell on first sight my wife's a baker.
signpost: that's all
asciilifeform: cgra: i admit that not sure what your q is
signpost: did start biking much more after the chest pains, and I think that helped.
cgra: asciilifeform: np let's fughedaboudit for now, i'll blog it up if it starts to make sense again to me
cgra: moving on with the rest of the dos list
thimbronion: jonsykkel: will get you a key later
thimbronion: signpost: Shit man. consider doing a heart health work up. Been meaning to do that myself.
signpost: been gone for months, but yeah, wouldn't be a bad idea.
signpost rereading the pest spec on a "remarkable", pretty great for this
thimbronion: blatta testers: just discovered a bug: too many rubbish messages are being sent out. Doesn't break anything but still dumb.
thimbronion: signpost: I have a remarkable 2. I love it.
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1066044 << . sometimes it's just heartburn, but it's probably wise to see a cardiologist, even now without symptoms.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 10:16:31 signpost: anecdotally, I had chest pains for months after the vax
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1066062 << a, the epaper gadget ? worx reliably ? ( asciilifeform has smaller 'onyx' chinesium currently )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 10:51:07 signpost: rereading the pest spec on a "remarkable", pretty great for this
signpost: yeah, quite pleased with it, and they give ya ssh into it politely.
signpost: punkman: I've got chronic heartburn, managed, so I figure it was probably that
asciilifeform: signpost: how does one get payloads in/outta it ?
punkman considering getting an ipad, to use for reading + drawing
signpost: but sure, will get checked out
signpost: asciilifeform: I'm grandfathered into their "cloud storage" thing, but pretty sure the ssh can be used to huck items to it
asciilifeform: signpost: lemme know if that worx, iirc i passed on that box because vendor docs suggested their server thing is mandatory
signpost: sure will check
asciilifeform: signpost: does the pen thing work ?
punkman: not sure I can bring myself to use an Apple thing though
asciilifeform: punkman: i have the smaller crapplepad, it worx as a www toilet, but prolly will be retired when i get rid of the last crapple box in torture room, it's ~unusable w/out one
thimbronion: asciilifeform: pen works great for me - eraser too.
signpost: asciilifeform: yeah works fine; I use it for misc notes
asciilifeform: 'onyx' came w/ the pen, but there's very little software-end support for it
asciilifeform: (wacom-style radio-powered pen)
signpost: this one's just a plastic stick, but feels alright in the hand
asciilifeform: signpost: don't hesitate to point out bugs in spec btw, while reading
asciilifeform still finding outright typos months later, will eventually carry the fixes from the paper heap to the www draft
signpost: yep, just giving it full attention now, finally settling out of the megacorp-induced attention deficit
asciilifeform: ... not to mention whole sections missing, lol
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1066063 << indeed seemed to asciilifeform that there's a bit many given the logic where triggered by irc client ping
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 10:51:55 thimbronion: blatta testers: just discovered a bug: too many rubbish messages are being sent out. Doesn't break anything but still dumb.
asciilifeform: ( ideally imho would be an operator-set 'poisson' knob )
thimbronion: asciilifeform: indeed. gotta work in some kind of settings command.
jonsykkel: thimbronion: cool
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $64010.34
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Could not connect! (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709871
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.165s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.257s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709871
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.305s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.610s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709871 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709871 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
asciilifeform: ^ as expected, recent prb lulz have no observable effect in civilized world.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 16:39:27 asciilifeform: i dun give half a fuck about 'taproot' etc. and never will.
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: ( with possible exception of evermoar 'anyone can spend' garbage. but this dun affect anyone but the marks. )
signpost: the battle to prevent hardforks was won.
asciilifeform: signpost: well, to keep hardforks in their place (the circus) at any rate
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-14 13:23:04 asciilifeform: shinohai: udp per se is the proverbial 'postcard' -- take N bytes, an ip and a port, and throw'em on their way at the latter
asciilifeform: grr wrong link
asciilifeform: signpost: ... well, to keep hardforks in their place (the circus) at any rate
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 09:31:02 asciilifeform: jurov: lolwhy, splitcoins are great, it's as if idjits were sending out postcards w/ phree bitcent. (arguably we oughta have recycled'em while they were 'fashinable' and worth 3-4 bitcents rather than 1, but better late than never imho)
signpost: *prevent from supplanting real btc, yep
asciilifeform actually disappointed that there aint anymoar lulphorks -- the phree coin was great
thimbronion: one of my very few successful "trades" was to sell them immediately
signpost: asciilifeform: this is what shitcoins are for
asciilifeform: even just the piggy fattened palpably from shitcoin recycling
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 15:35:47 asciilifeform: bch recycling yield : 0.35992805 . ( will go in quarterly broadcast )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 09:30:00 asciilifeform: meanwhile concluding yest's recycling operation : ty shinohai ! net yield from 'bsv' recycling into piggy == 0.09461753 . after all recycling ops, piggy nao == 34.07754558 , and this'll be in the next broadcast !
signpost will be rolling over cardano and ethereum into btc before long
asciilifeform never deliberately collected shitcoins, but how can refuse when they get sent in 'for phree'
signpost: asciilifeform: any good fork-coin balance tools available?
asciilifeform: signpost: various www-based heathen block exploders show certain phorks
asciilifeform: afaik the only 2 'alive' atm (in the sense where you can actually tx) are the 2 described in asciilifeform's recycling saga
asciilifeform: ( the third, 'btg', appears to be dead in practice , was unable to find any means of txing on it )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 09:34:40 asciilifeform: the lemon is 100% squeezed nao ( incidentally that same gox eats 'btg' but i was unable to find a working client for same. so ~those~ bitcents can be considered lost , likely )
signpost: looks like snoar for me
asciilifeform: it only makes sense if yer moving coinz anyways
asciilifeform: (obv. you wouldn't tx on a shitphork from a 'living' btc addr)
signpost also ate most of his BTC after these forks
signpost: at great effort, lol
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I'm having trouble locating in the spec where the hashing algorithm to be used to check for duplicates is specified.
bitbot: (pest) 2021-11-15 asciilifeform: deduping is done with hash of entire msg per spec
thimbronion: asciilifeform: ty
asciilifeform: thimbronion: it's the same hash used for selfchain/netchain
asciilifeform: (and later for 'getdata' when we have it)
asciilifeform: thimbronion: observe that only the message is covered by this hash.
asciilifeform: (i.e. nuffin in the red packet other than the 428byte of message is touched by it )
asciilifeform: ftr, 'In the current protocol: SHA256. The hash encompasses all message fields, in the order they are listed in the table. Any trailing padding bytes required by the hash are to equal zero.'
asciilifeform: this means these ( Timestamp, SelfChain, NetChain, Speaker, Text -- in that order )
shinohai: greets vex
vex: heya shino
vex feels decidedly slovenly for not attempting to build alf's rng, particularly considering that I asked for extra notes more than once. Erry time, were promptly published.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 19:03:23 asciilifeform: surprisingly tricky (if no one to crib from , lol)
vex: How many smoke detectors do I need for your thing shinohai?
shinohai: like 72 or something
shinohai: Don't stop until ur skin starts to itch as a general rule.
vex: sounds powerful
vex: I sure would like one of those og snsa tshirts
dpb: i give them free with purchase of fg
vex: I thought nubs still had the box
dpb: yeah i never got those ones, but i already had a box of them
vex: how long do you propose the trb coffers to last asciilifeform?
vex: 34 pieces won't last forever
vex: a long time, but not forever
vex: if you're planning to disperse it; there will be less
vex: I'm preaching to the choir here. I underestimated the sanwich cost. that printer sure goes brrr
vex: meanwhile in testnet, cdd, who is your daddy and what does he do?
vex: pls don't say nfi, coz 19 years ago....
vex: prolly won't even read it.
vex: you're spooking me out kid
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1066168 << this is an interesting q with an interesting answr.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 20:09:32 vex: how long do you propose the trb coffers to last asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: a properly-adaized replacement-trb (i.e. with ZERO traces of derpcoad and demonstrably bug-free) would be what one could call 'permanent software'
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
asciilifeform: i.e. the kind that can be left alone for all time.
asciilifeform: ergo the primary mission of tbf is a finite one.
asciilifeform: which is convenient because neither asciilifeform nor afaik any other prospectice participants are immortals
asciilifeform: 'Ihr Racker, wollt ihr ewig leben?'(tm)(r)(frederick ii)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-15#1066163 << i recently found anuther bag of'em. possibly even someone asked for it, and i neglected to get'em out, but i fughet who it was...
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-15 19:33:11 vex: I sure would like one of those og snsa tshirts
asciilifeform: (and can't seem to find in the log either)
asciilifeform: anyways to round off vex's thread -- after permanent-trb is complete, i expect the remainder of the coffer is to be used to support noades , as well as maintenance of our gnat, signpost's miniature linux, and whatever other components req'd to revv up the kit on off-the-shelf irons.
asciilifeform: i.e. so that it remains runnable.
asciilifeform: ( aaaand it is conceivable that folx (incl. asciilifeform) will at some pt put ~into~ the piggy, rather than only take out ! )
asciilifeform also is in favour of use of tbf piggy in re: efforts to e.g. unwind segshit, if at some pt this appears practical and the necessary resources require coin
asciilifeform: ... if, speculatively, such an exercise yields coin, naturally said coin oughta end up in the piggy.
scoopbot: New post on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: A Review of ``Computing Machinery and Intelligence'' by Alan Turing
verisimilitude: Say, I may as well ask, have ye any recommended reading for better understand S-boxes and other such things? While I could implement the Serpent cipher already, I'd prefer to have a better understanding of it.