adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-15#1023224 << arguably, I only exist because my emergent eugenics heritage optimized for arguments; thus, I argue against you here: this post is, unlike 'brick lisp', a suggestion of useful technology, and ...
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-15 13:50:15 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-14#1023192 << ancient piece, and arguably dead end -- no one took much interest in the notion of trying to standardize a set of orthogonal meanings for sigs. and even less likely nao. esp. given as the win from doing so is - any way you cut it - small.
adlai: ... when I daydream about "what gifts of executable deedbot poetry can I send alf", a cl response to that post is higher priority than brushing dust off the printouts of early FFA chapters (these exist!)
adlai: 'brick lisp' is funny, of course, although you yourself have written what mere ideas are worth.
adlai found that post quite interesting, although must admit taking to heart MP's warning and thus did not immediately rush to gush
adlai reads http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-15#1006743 while wondering whether to rescind that author's proposed documentation contract, instead simply paying him to 'lint'
snsabot: Logged on 2020-02-15 23:21:32 verisimilitude: I'll try again: [Common Lisp Style Document](http://verisimilitudes.net/2020-02-14)
adlai should probably stop reading around "Common Lisp program organization isn't at all tied to files and shouldn't be.", due to the irresistable urge to remark that it is actually tied quite firmly to a wonderful filesystem abstraction, and the shape of the knot is of the quick-release variety.
adlai: whenever I tie such a knot, and I quite often do, I can't help but think to myself, "ah yes, that's Highwayman Snot", because it's all in one strand!
adlai: incidentally, I published the initial draft of the proposed contract, mostly because although it was rejected, it does give an idea of what I had in mind
adlai will probably continue the negotiation with verisimilitude, because working alone for too long leads to anaphora, haskell, and worse
adlai: my local copy of the draft, likely to expire soon ; and the github mirror that will also rot, someday.
adlai sighs, typo in link again
adlai: delete "/blob" from the mirror link for the unbroken version
adlai notes that at least one of the spidery regulars in the http server logs actually tried to get the tarball! although, a little after it went the way of the plague bubonic.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-17#1023271 << if you find the item useful (or even turn it into an algo) dun hesitate to write in.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-17 09:15:49 adlai: ... when I daydream about "what gifts of executable deedbot poetry can I send alf", a cl response to that post is higher priority than brushing dust off the printouts of early FFA chapters (these exist!)
asciilifeform: !q seen verisimilitude
snsabot: verisimilitude last seen here on 2020-09-26 16:40:33: Also, what's the line column maximum I should use, adlai; I prefer one hundred.
asciilifeform: adlai: you might have to find a new docs fixer.
asciilifeform: $vwap
btcinfobot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 11352.01 USD
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.100s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.067s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.052s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=652883
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653076
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=652484 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.148s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.174s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.207s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.210s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=653186
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.274s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391673 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : (182518.pk.3pp.slovanet.sk) Alive: (0.301s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=431413
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
adlai: ehehe, hello asciilifeform ! for the benefit of the spam harvesters, I now pay the joke tax:
adlai: three jewish ladies are cockmeasuring their favorite children; lady A says, "I am so proud of my son, Moshe, because he is a doctor"
adlai: lady B says, "that is nothing, my son Menashe is a lawyer"
adlai: lady C says, "I've got you both beaten, my son David is a laywer specializing in medical malpractice"
adlai: ... dead silence, then lady A says: "yes, but he represents the doctors."
asciilifeform: lol
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-17#1023287 << not only that, but he asked to write docstrings instead of toplevel comments! the nerve... although, it is good that the negotiation is honest.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-17 12:41:21 snsabot: verisimilitude last seen here on 2020-09-26 16:40:33: Also, what's the line column maximum I should use, adlai; I prefer one hundred.
asciilifeform: adlai: i've never asked a third party to document my coad, and don't intend to start, so i've 'no comment'
asciilifeform: ( which is not to say that various folx haven't done it on own free will , on occasion )
asciilifeform: generally when it happens, asciilifeform thinks 'probably did not write orig. docs sufficiently clearly'
adlai: surely you appreciate the semantic difference between requesting comment and commissioning documentation
asciilifeform: adlai: i recall that you commissioned it. ftr i'm skeptical that you're gonna see a satisfying output from that commission -- from anybody. to write quality docs, you gotta 'fit in head' the material. i.e. similar level of effort to rewriting the entire program.
asciilifeform will bbl.
adlai: perhaps I should abandon that commission.
Apocalyptic: adlai, what group theory text were you reading earlier ?
adlai: Apocalyptic: I have skimmed Gallian's "Contemporary Abstract Algebra" several times, and begun working sequentially through Burnside's "Theory of Finite Groups"; although, I often refer back to Gallian's text, simply because it is written in a dialect more similar to whatever you call this language.
adlai: the friend who gave me his copy of Gallian also once, after hearing I was interested in Bitcoin, lent me a monograph on ECC that literally weighed more than my skull. I did not get very far in that.
Apocalyptic: interesting choices of books, I have yet to read either
Apocalyptic: My exposure to abstract algebra books starts and ends with Lang's Algebra
Apocalyptic: I'd wager the style is probably closer to Burnside's
adlai: my familiarity with abstract algebra is regrettably quite eclectic, in the negative connotation of that word; a bit of elementary number theory during one semester of high school, that was quite good; and then nothing whatsoever for several years, followed by the tiny minimum on point and space groups in "mathematics for chemists" classes.
adlai in fact dropped mathematics entirely during 11th grade, having finished the standard high school calculus in 10th; and then only resumed studying mathematics because an excellent teacher decided to offer an elective on number theory.
adlai: it is quite a nasty problem: on one hand, proper formal study of mathematics is one of the most both boringly tedious and tediously boring occupations imaginable; yet on the other, studying anything else to a significant depth reveals that there is in fact no other subject, only lots of jargon.
adlai: as for my choice of books, Apocalyptic: it is mostly along the lines of MP's off-the-cuff remark along the lines of peasants fishing in the sewers.
adlai: e.g., my copy of Burnside is from the "last chance to save these before they go into the paper recycling bin" at the university library, where I found the text on one shelf, and front cover on a different shelf.
Apocalyptic: not sure about "no other subject" altogether, but certainly a lot of problems fundamentally reduce to some mathematical properties
verisimilitude: Know I'm still here, reading the logs, but prefer not to write if I've naught to write about.
verisimilitude: Rather than respond via email, I'll note here I intend to follow through with the arrangement, as per the latest message, adlai.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-17#1023274 I can hazard a guess, but tell me what precisely is meant by this, adlai.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-17 10:54:35 adlai: reads http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-15#1006743 while wondering whether to rescind that author's proposed documentation contract, instead simply paying him to 'lint'
verisimilitude: I don't have any intention of imposing my standards on programs I didn't write, especially when I'm to be paid for it.
verisimilitude: Know it was my wget that collected the tarball, adlai.
verisimilitude: I don't see the nerve in preferring documentation strings to comments, but at least I've made it known I'm not going to ``beat around the bush'' in negotiating honestly, yes.
verisimilitude: I've been having fun writing machine code games lately, although my programming is rarely enough to satisfy me; I always ``pick up the pace'' when the deadline looms ever closer.
adlai: 'lint' = tidying the code, instead of commenting
adlai: 'the nerve' = documentation strings, as specified in CL, are slightly unwieldy. in my email to you, I gave the example of an idiom wherein #.(format () ..) is used to unwrap lines... at this point, I prefer to reduce the amount of clever magic in that code, rather than increase it.
adlai: the wording about this in my latest email may have been a little unclear; my point is that I do not consider documentation strings, in and of themselves, more verbose than comments.
adlai: however, the structural flexibility of comments -- all four kinds found in common lisp, i.e. single-semicolon inline, ;; within functions, ;;; at toplevel, and ;;;; at start of file -- is much greater than the rigidity and awkward placement of documentation strings.
adlai: so documentation strings, in their proper CL location, are good for concise descriptions that elide implementation details, whereas comments allow much more flexibility and depth; and I specifically want the implementation investigated, rather than the interface documented.
adlai does not want to abandon the commission, fwiw; just needs to settle upon a good specification which is worth both your time and my coin.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-17#1023343 Oh, now I understand this was a compliment; while I'd be willing to release minor changes, as described in my last email, under the CC0, I'd prefer a larger modification be under the AGPLv3.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-17 15:11:06 adlai: 'lint' = tidying the code, instead of commenting
adlai omitted the nestable comment syntax, although that is more useful for suppressing evaluation of forms, than for writing remarks
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-17#1023344 I solve such issues by writing English in a particular way, similarly to how I write my comments to line up perfectly at the column limit, without exception.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-17 15:13:54 adlai: 'the nerve' = documentation strings, as specified in CL, are slightly unwieldy. in my email to you, I gave the example of an idiom wherein #.(format () ..) is used to unwrap lines... at this point, I prefer to reduce the amount of clever magic in that code, rather than increase it.
verisimilitude: I'm soon to be busy, but should I simply wait for another email, adlai?
adlai: yes
verisimilitude: I'm good at waiting, so alright.
adlai: hah! expect an updated draft in about a week.
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2020/10/un-arms-embargo-against-iran-expires/ << The Montevideo Standard -- UN Arms Embargo Against Iran Expires