spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-03-18#1009024 <-- hey asciilifeform. I'm alive and tuned in, though not really kicking at the moment (maybe with the exception of dayjerb-related stuff)
snsabot: Logged on 2020-03-18 14:12:45 asciilifeform: hey spyked , if yer tuned in , gimme a ping at your leisure.
BingoBoingo: ./ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: 5886.44
BingoBoingo: ./ticker eur usd
btcinfobot: Current EUR price in USD: 1.081
BingoBoingo: ./ticker btc uyu
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in UYU: 272524.12
BingoBoingo: ./ticker btc pyg
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in PYG: 38240098.87
shinohai: Congrats, BingoBoingo first to figure out bot supports multi world fiats. ^.^
asciilifeform: ./ticker btc rub
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in RUB: 475703.46
shinohai: In Soviet Russia, BTC dumps YOU.
asciilifeform: spyked: ping me when yer 'kicking'. let's discuss 'computing turns to shit' etc.
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 11 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.085s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.102s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.177s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.164s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.254s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.354s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.547s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=622210
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
asciilifeform: ./ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: 6115.33
asciilifeform: elsewhere: this imho is a++ observation. and i'd like to share possible generalization:
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-19 trinque: deedbot has long been a bad prototype of a gossipd node, making it an incrementally less-bad prototype
asciilifeform: why the hell is a typical public www bound to 1 box? specifically, why could not exist as an auto-mirrorable directory of signed material ?
asciilifeform: consider something like 'rsync' but w/ proper vtronics.
asciilifeform: config a set of pubkeys and a set of peers. when any of the latter have new material, $node loads, verifies, and interns it.
asciilifeform: imho an entirely usable implementation of this could weigh what orig. vtron did (~400ln) , not requires 'mars mission'...
shinohai: The Qntra practice of signing submissions made me think of this too, have been playing about with blogotron to accept signed submissions off-and-on for a while now.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i've been thinking about this ever since i orig. asked jurov to write 'turdatron' mechanism for tbf (and, a++, he did, it worx)
asciilifeform: this in fact pre-dates 'v'
asciilifeform: shinohai: imho the generalization is an obvious step. i can't speak for erryone, but i have more than enuff spare disk, cpu, to host errything posted by folx in my l1
shinohai: I'm lost at how one could mirror www made with, say, mp-wp ... isn't it rather large?
trinque: yep, I've been thinking of the same thing.
asciilifeform: shinohai: most straightforward would be to confine to 'static' www. but theoretically could use wp or similar, so long as instead of dbism, plain txt storage
trinque: I've got an rsync dir of people's sites just waiting for this.
asciilifeform: trinque: i suspect erryone's been thinking of ~same thing for yrs
asciilifeform: 'devil in the details'
trinque afk for a bit.
asciilifeform: i also suspect that ye olde NNTP is a more usable starting point for this than rsync. but i haven't yet dug deeply enuff to cluefully insist
asciilifeform: it's arguably a disgrace that the lot of us (incl. asciilifeform) played for yrs w/ btc, but never once implemented a troo p2p mechanism.
asciilifeform: so far 100% of errything , w/ exception of trb noades, has been 'some d00d's box' .
shinohai always liked the idea of NMC but admits never dug in too deep.
asciilifeform: the mortal weakness of orig. usenet was the lack of support for any kind of hard identity, imho
asciilifeform: shinohai: nmc ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: i experimented w/ it. but it , iirc, is stone dead , on acct of 'mining is a bug'(tm)(r)
trinque: plenty of disgrace to go around for all.
trinque: but it doesn't help anything at present.
asciilifeform considerably moar interested in experiments -- esp. relatively simple, inexpensive experiments, using existing materials -- than in 'who is sadder!' contests, these days
asciilifeform: shinohai: imho minerism ( for reasons entirely adequately summarized by mp in '16 ) oughta stay in btc.
asciilifeform: it is entirely troo that bandwidth and disk have cost, and schemes where 'один с сошкой -- семеро с ложкой'(tm)(r) ( 'one -- with a plow, seven -- holding spoons' ) are doomed .
asciilifeform: but imho there's no reason why the storage net itself gotta involve mining. instead why not let the question of payment work via ordinary btc. it worx.
shinohai: True, altcoins are only good for turning into BTC proper (if that).
asciilifeform: shinohai: as described in mp's piece, altcoins live more or less just for as long as no one is seriously interested in cutting'em up for meat, and not a day longer
asciilifeform: ( not to mention the near-impossibility of getting any serious folx to ever take one seriously -- author is 'guilty until proven innocent' of premining, or at the very least of having head start on determining most effective method to mine )
asciilifeform: shinohai: it's moar or less how deedbot worx
asciilifeform: makes e.g. ultralongwave radio look cheap in comparison, tho
asciilifeform: shinohai: i implemented a system with this type of 'telegraphy' in 2012, in an.. industrial application where goal was to have absolutely unjammable remote command. but -- expensive, and slow. generally unjustified cost for almost anything short of actual btcing.
shinohai: Yeah slow would be a problem I imagine, since msg cannot be transmitted until included in block, correct?
asciilifeform: 6+blox ideally
asciilifeform: (naturally depends on application, how much margin you want)
asciilifeform: shinohai: msgs via btc are not only expensive to send, but to receive -- gotta maintain a working noad, 400+GB (and counting) and at least occasional 'oil change' (see that it aint jammed)
asciilifeform: current-day trb aint esp. well tailored for this type of use, either (no support for o(1) querying of outputs)
asciilifeform: back upstack -- imho there are so few thinking people around, that just about erryone could mirror 'errything' w/out breaking a sweat, if 'rsync-cum-v' existed. and if someone is 'superstar' of bw guzzling, others can ask him, in ordinary human language, to offset bw expense in exch. for their inclusion of his pubkey in their system. settled via ordinary coin.
asciilifeform: attempts to automatically bill people for 'rent space inside my nose'(tm) imho are dead end, and doomed the earlier 2000s attempts at similar schemes ('eternity' et al)
asciilifeform: ( ... that being said, there is nuffin to stop a relay operator from 'you want me to add your pubkey ? then for g GB and x GB transferred, plox to send to $addr such-and-such $coin...' )
asciilifeform: lobbes: re old logs : recall, i in fact converted'em to edible format back in autumn. but was unable to find a means to make the old log links work -- the clock delta is substantial and , worse, ~random
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-19 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-19#1022353 << I think March 28th 2016 is the starting point for at least your logger and mine. (I haven't confirmed this on alf's, but I think his too starts at this date).
asciilifeform: this is why all the folx who cribbed my logger / its logs as they appeared in august of '19 , have the same starting pt ( i.e. day of 'dragon' ) for #t
asciilifeform: ( imho a logger where ~all~ of the log links cannot be relied on , is ~useless )
lobbes: asciilifeform: ah yeah, I do recall that log link issue with the old logs
asciilifeform: jfw: this aint so -- phf made the old log avail. and i converted it. but unusable, on acct of link/date pagination
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-19 jfw: diana_coman: the trouble was precisely that the raw-log archive only started at 2016-04.txt (actually the tail end of March) when asciilifeform built his logger and nobody online at the time had earlier except via lossy scraping.
asciilifeform has nuffin against folx who want to make own loggers, in their favourite fortrans
shinohai: I met this fellow from Japan that had old, unused lisp logbot. Uses cl-irc2 and is quite stable, though the www part needs work.
asciilifeform: shinohai: cl-irc is iirc what trinque orig. used. 'tis buggy (dun reconnect worth a damn, tho iirc trinque had a workaround)
shinohai: cl-irc2 a bit different, I mirrored on www: http://btc.info.gf/devel/lisp/cl-irc2/
shinohai: (Might even genesis this bot just to preserve it, I kinda like it)
asciilifeform: shinohai: can summarize where different ? ( e.g. didja test disconnection w/ it ? )
asciilifeform: cuz at surface glance loox to be considerably bulkier than mine, and i dun immediately understand why
shinohai: asciilifeform: It has a section for defining irc numeric codes that I don't recal being in cl-irc irignally, but don't remember tbh
shinohai: It *does* reconnect on disconntect, though netsplits seem to make it forget to join chans.
whaack: asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-03-19#1009129 <----> http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/ircbot-no-suicide-on-reconnect/
snsabot: Logged on 2020-03-19 15:54:44 asciilifeform: shinohai: cl-irc is iirc what trinque orig. used. 'tis buggy (dun reconnect worth a damn, tho iirc trinque had a workaround)
asciilifeform: aa ty whaack
asciilifeform: shinohai: netsplits dun require action from the victim...
shinohai: neato whaack will read
asciilifeform: shinohai et al : to date, the disconnection detector i introduced in oct. of '19 has worked splendidly (i.e. 0 spurious disconnects, 100% detects actual loss of connectivity when happens)
asciilifeform: ( recall, uses configurable 'this-many sec. w/out a PING from upstream' timer )