asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105704 << asciilifeform still has that one. and the magick cable. tore the mousepad jack tho during one of the various vivisections of it
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-10 19:59:00 phf: despite the fact that they didn't serve our purposes still great hacker machines, as demonstrated by the fact that you can still find them new and unboxed around $500 across different vendors
asciilifeform: 500 $ imho is a bit much for a rk-on-wheels
vex: hey, this is a tundo. unobtanium in oz. deserves the best
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105678 << still have 'hackrf' , using it as a kind of glorified 'grundig' for sw
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-10 18:00:40 signpost: vex: yeah, I have a few SDRs laying around
vex: also needs a hektik blower
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105690 << if anyone discovers how to stand up vga on that thing
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-10 19:07:57 verisimilitude: Well, I'll gladly replace it with a working Gentoo, if that gets finished.
asciilifeform: ( tho iirc phf on c101 simply uses fb + emacs )
asciilifeform: ^ oughta work on 'pine' -- same , afaik, chipset
phf: asciilifeform: c101 is like 10", where's pine is a believe a full sized notebook
asciilifeform: phf: aha
asciilifeform has both on 1 shelf, gathering dust presently
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-20 13:48:12 phf: i change the console colors and fonts so that it doesn't look too "hacker", and it gives me ~~9 hours of emacs, sbcl
asciilifeform: the 'pine' (or at least my unit) has annoying 'euro' kbd
asciilifeform: 9h of emacs w/out 'hoover' fan is neat
asciilifeform fuckinghates lappy fans
phf: fast enough™
vex: right? if I wanna put a hairdryer on my nuts, that's my decision
asciilifeform resolves to find & test that mouse patch for 'pine' signpost mentioned
asciilifeform: factory fw made for an ~unusable mouse
asciilifeform: bought the nvme board for that thing, too, but not tried
asciilifeform: and the debug plug
phf: доработать напильником
vex: how many pinebooks out there?
asciilifeform doesn't know
vex: I doubt the factory even knows
asciilifeform: likely not so many, was a 'labour of luvv' sorta thing
asciilifeform: some d00d baked'em fg-style
vex: where the kitchen is a factory
asciilifeform: vex: well no, fg was commissioned in an actual factory; and evidently 'pine' similarly, has even spiffy magnesium shell
vex: final assembly was alf's kitchen tho right?
asciilifeform: vex: screwing the analogue boards in, fw-ing, testing
asciilifeform: if yours has 1 or moar blue boards, is 1 of ^
asciilifeform: paste syringe, vacuum pincer, frying pan.
asciilifeform still has over9000 blue blanks...
asciilifeform: they work exactly same as the red ones.
asciilifeform: the syringe pump & vacuum worked off same chinese horror , rather medical-looking contraption w/ pressure gauges & valves, connected to ancient clattering 'fridge' compressor. still have these...
vex: presumably erry factory has a guy who can ^, but getting everyone on the same page needs a plane ticvket or two
asciilifeform: this, yes was in kitchen, of asciilifeform's old roach flat
asciilifeform: tip : ir thermometer for the 'reflow curve' on frying pan
asciilifeform: otherwise get 'grey' joints
vex: try spaining that to hk without a repeat order
asciilifeform: board house actually fucked the test batch
vex: did you whip them with a stongly worded email?
asciilifeform: 'oh he had nfi the shield would draw heat away from the ic'
asciilifeform: vex: some backn'forth w/ microscope jpgs, they redid
vex: that's pretty fucking neato
vex: made in usa if i'm not mistaken?
vex: you guys are pretty good at making stuff
asciilifeform: upstairs fella brewed moonshine, in a ridiculous-looking hand-sewn automated rig. sometimes brought some down
vex: oh, i'm fucking going, that's all there is to it
asciilifeform: long ago escaped
vex: him, or you?
asciilifeform: that house long since ~uninhabited
asciilifeform: (per local legend, was a whorehouse in late 19th)
vex: were you were the last roach keeper?
asciilifeform: not afaik last
vex: prolly haunted
asciilifeform: railroad in back yard
asciilifeform: supposedly was a favourite spot for emo chix to splat
asciilifeform: city put in fence
vex: I hope oldmate has a license for his moonshine now. cool story on the bottle
asciilifeform: nfi where went
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-11#1105780 << sounds like one of those Poe metaphors
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-11 01:16:42 asciilifeform: that house long since ~uninhabited
asciilifeform: 'house of usher' lol
asciilifeform not misses it, had rats easily the size of small cat, could and did carry entire loaf of bread (found once in the bath)
vex: good move
asciilifeform: cheap tho
vex: meh, everythings relative
vex: me, i'd hang around for the emo chix
phf: there aren't any emo chix anymore, vex. they are gone. it's all tiktokers
vex: oh fuck, what a disater
vex: ^no cynicism intended, I want black bangs
vex: vampish ladies on the precipice
phf: too many bpds
vex: what is bpds?
vex: I've got a song for that
vex: bob dylan said it first "when your head gets heavy on hte border line"
vex: heavy shit
phf: vex: since we're still on the subject of bpd girls https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=q2uyfDSqZHI
vex: premium audio. I can dance to this
phf: we used to go urban exploring with my friend and his bpd girlfrield, who later became my girlfriend. we'd climb onto rooftops at night, smoke clove cigarettes and listen to the smiths, death in june, current 93. what time.
vex: did I say already that I'm glad you didn't die?
phf: thanks, vex
vex: whatever cunt
phf: oh oh also erik satie! but also alien sex fiend https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=Bfm7cOJfOjk or like souther death cult https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=LNN7dt1lJgQ
phf: i miss subcultures, bros
vex: you could dj at a vamp club
phf: i actually managed to catch the tail end of goth parties, that weren't all cybergoths and wumpscut kind post-industrial shit
vex: I'll be lurking near the booth. can I get a song? wait vex
phf: drinking red wine, awkwardly channeling homoeroticism of tom cruise as lestat, aha
vex: i'll be on all the lsd.
phf: it's funny how /that/ subculture just completely and utterly disappeared, not even morphed into anything
vex: indeed need video for the kids to phreak on
vex: i gots to go
vex: big love
phf: i made a mistake of hacking on lisp machine code again, which means i'm up way past any kind of reasonable bed time
asciilifeform: phf: what were you doing with the lispm?
asciilifeform not powered up his for rather long time
phf: asciilifeform: i have a group of frens who are working on cadr/usim. i periodically do things also
asciilifeform: a that one
phf: e.g. "we" got system 98 working recently. it's mostly a piece of shit :)
asciilifeform not overly fond of card but is defo 'better than nuffin' and can see wai archaeologists continue to dig
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-02-11 16:30:18 asciilifeform: 'cadr' was designed to be buildable with the off-the-shelf discrete semiconductors ('bitslice') of its day, and as a consequence extremely baroque. 3600 inherited this gnarl.
phf: it's also ancient development practices, which i'm usually all for, but this is the case where some moved on made sense. global package level state in dynamic variables kind of things
phf: busy waiting on memory state
asciilifeform: 'they just wanted it to work'
phf: bugs.text is not "how do we make it better" but "discovered this magic sequence of getting zwei unstuck from particular luser state"
asciilifeform erry time dug into the extant sources, ran into ^ and barfed
asciilifeform: the 'we just want it to work' 'no one has time to rewrite in a way that makes sense' thing unfortunately ~not~ invented in modern time, but goes quite far back
phf: to their credit they were still building "ford vs ferrari" kind of American skunkworks kind of project, "jimmy, rig that wire, gc is going at 11, and we on the last loop of space trajectory!"
asciilifeform: defo had this flavour. re-wirewrapping of running machine while 3 d00dz fidget w/ oscilloscope, etc
phf: (everyone involved would've been played by mat damon and leonardo dicaprio, if anyone at all cared)
asciilifeform: is wai asciilifeform moar into bolix archaeology than cadr; bolix was at least halfway into 'remove the wirewrap hacks and refine to logical design'
phf: ftr i have all the bits to cold boot a genera..
asciilifeform: tho suffered own 'resistance of the medium' pile of hax
asciilifeform somehow was under impression that cadr was ~100% emulated yrs ago. evidently not quite ?
asciilifeform recalls many yrs ago , tracked down a surviver of lmi co. and persuaded him to post errything he had re their 'k-machine'. but broke teeth against this material, it was from where they had already mostly ran outta dough and did not quite add up to a viable system, pile of somewhat interesting sketches & coad but w/ heavy admixture of 'vapour'
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-12 11:38:18 asciilifeform: (2) and (3) the pertinent items. it was how lmi & smbx were funded. the problem with these is that they are both ~lying contests~.
verisimilitude: The current ``startups'' are also lying contests, on a much grander scale.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: noshit
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: observe, with many fewer legs still attached vestigially to the snake than were then
verisimilitude: Yes, this is what makes it so disgusting to know how the Lisp Machine companies failed.
asciilifeform: not far from asciilifeform's chair there for instance is a princely bldg housing a, shit thee not, 'quantum cloud computing' 'startup', funded to 1e8+$ and peddling stock
verisimilitude: Let me guess: They've yet to build anything?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: they build large, very costly and very impressive (to bureaucrats) rube goldberg machines bristling with elaborately machined vacuum fittings, electron guns, etc etc
asciilifeform: in the finest tradition of 17th c. alchemists.
asciilifeform: ... or take these folx, who not only building but ~selling~ (to tbtf corps) similar kit, 1e7+$ a pop, and 'it dun actually DO anyffin' not being any kinda obstacle whatsoever
verisimilitude: I tried to get a Common Lisp job there once.
asciilifeform: since late '90s, even.
verisimilitude: I didn't try very hard, but still.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: picture if you had landed that job. 'i make the finest xyz' 'but it's ultimately to blink coloured lights impressively to land next nsa grant' 'it'll WORK! anydaynao!11'
asciilifeform: errybody knows about kepler, but historically very few 'court astrologers' were kepler.
verisimilitude: I don't have a ``work ethic'' when it comes to employment, only when I give a shit about my personal projects.
asciilifeform: the most grim lesson there imho is that the '80s lispm corps were funded in exactly same way. and once the 'better liars' came along with a 'sexier' spiel, the lispms kaput.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not so many personal projects 'escaped' from these.
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-11#1105859 << yes, but brad parker's usim came with system 78, we've been trying to cold boot system 98, which has worked. there's also files for 99, which has rudimentary common lisp. there's also 12x, which is one of the last mit versions.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-11 12:55:26 asciilifeform: somehow was under impression that cadr was ~100% emulated yrs ago. evidently not quite ?
asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's pov, if you must labour in salt mines, far better to slave in those which as far as possible from yer own 'personal project' interest.
asciilifeform: phf: a, makes sense
verisimilitude: I agree, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform did not even know there had been a rudimentary commonlisp for cadr-likes
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-11 13:17:15 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not so many personal projects 'escaped' from these.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 'golden age of lispm' left surprisingly few publicly-avail. artifacts from 'personal proj'. much was trapped in copyrasty limbo for long enuff to become irrelevant; other things ended up buried in tapes which ~nobody can read, feeding mice in attics; others yet have their materials but old, disillusioned, and/or changed fields entirely
phf: it's orthogonal to your point, but problem with tapes is not ~nobody can read. problem with tapes is the ye old "pot of gold" from threads. can read them alright, but requires all kinds of work to get them shared.
asciilifeform: phf: shared, and, more to the point, runnable
asciilifeform: ( also the obv. issue of whether was even such a thing as 'personal proj' in the days when the machine cost like 'lear jet' and ate 10kW + chillers , most material ended up deep in copyrasty glue trap for decades )
phf: shared first and exclusively, runnable is for the enthusiasts. i mean we got 98 running with a tooppick and a whole lot of reverse engineering. meanwhile know of mit tapes with just even file names that indicate "this is what we need", but impossible to get out of them
phf: and if various "have some tapes in a box" people are mini dragons, can easily be convinced to share, then mit is like a full blown dragon, hobbit's smog, sits on loot, no real copyright on it either, just need creedentials and handshakes and more creedentials to get to
asciilifeform: in this light is nuffin short of a miracle that ~anyffin~ was released and found way to archaeologists
verisimilitude: Oh, that; yes. I avoid walking into the copyright ghettos.
asciilifeform: iirc mit released 0 many yrs after bolix conclusively folded
phf: i had this conversations with russians a lot where go "mit is no longer premier educational instutation, lost its way sometime in the early 2000s", have examples and explanations, but hard to argue against years of succesful marketing. point being that "mit" "released" while "mit" was a bunch of hackers doing whatever the fuck. aaronsw affair was not a watershed moment, but ought to have made point obv to everyone who wasn't paying
verisimilitude: I applied to MIT before I knew any better; it's good I didn't get in.
verisimilitude: It's good I have no formal education regarding programming.
asciilifeform: phf: brands can take very long time to die. many folx still think of e.g. edison when hear 'general electric', rather than of the stuck-in-panama-canal lulship, etc
asciilifeform knows folx buying today's crapple irons, with their soldered-in flash disks, random kernel panics, nintendoized 'appstores' etc. largely because they 'sat down on the needle' in '80s when 'nifty gui mac JustWorx(tm)'
phf: mit is cloud beaurocratia by head and 60% chink by body, there's no substance left to it. and i've heard this point from hackers in the 2003 or so when i regularly traveled to boston to hang out at ta lounges and go to conferences. "if you want to put a cow on a roof as a prank, you're 40 years too late, but whatever i'm going to get a senior engineering position at ibm out of college, so i'm not sweating it"
asciilifeform: phf: this was visible from 1000km+ away to anyone with open eyes when they abolished 'sicp'
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-02-23 phf: sussman was there though, when mit switched from sicp to python for their intro programming course, and he defended that decision with his remarks at ILC https://web.archive.org/web/20090327115612/http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03/24/why-mit-now-uses-python-instead-of-scheme-for-its-undergraduate-cs-program
phf: asciilifeform: that's almost a decade after, but yes
phf: like abolition of sicp came i think even after they threw sw under the bus
asciilifeform: swartz was hanged in '13 iirc
asciilifeform: sicp 'hanged' in '09
phf: oh interesting, i got my dates wrong. 2007 acording to pedowikia
asciilifeform: makes sense that it happened somewhat prior to sussman's 'schroedinger's letter to hitler' moment
phf: i think by then i switched fully out of academia and was doing event promotion at DC cubs :D
phf: i'm trying to think when the first yc startup school happened, must've been 2007 or so
asciilifeform been to boston exactly 1ce, in late '90s to visit family phriendz, walked past mit like muslim walks in mecca past the kaaba, 'believed'
asciilifeform: trying to elist there was outta the q., cost moar than whole family earned then
asciilifeform: today perhaps costs like a small boeing, tho asciilifeform has nfi concretely
phf: so i was going to attend, but was poor, so i was pumping my state school grades and taking bus trips to mit, would sleep on couches and hang out with tas. i've worked it out at some point and between loans and grants could manage to. while visiting learned the dark art of "surviving of phree food at grad events"
asciilifeform: 'ghost' was the local parlance for these, they existed even at md shithole
phf: actually umd's symantic web people had a kind of channel to mit because were using common lisp, much talk of lisp machines, so i wouldn't necessarily be out of place. often had purpose to go
asciilifeform: a, so 'diplomatic cover', rather than 'illegal resident'
phf: well, they wrote about the model right? it's in the "what the dormouse said", the founder of intel famously walked into mit's comp sci lab from the street in the 60s with the words "you guys seem to be doing some far out shit here". why would be different? :>
asciilifeform wonders whether today someone could 'walk from street' into any of these, supposing somewhere worth walking into, or couldn't even get past checkpoint
phf: for example media lab still had some cool projects going, e.g. https://people.csail.mit.edu/jrb/goo/
asciilifeform did a long tour of duty at usg nih, pre-911, 'anyone could walk in', often enuff fughot the photo badge at home; many yrs later found that could not even go to library there w/out airport-like arse search and 'ausweis, bitte'
phf: at umd we were doing that (first in general) wifi roaming, and goo people were doing smart agents with lisps living on small wifi devices, coordinating things, etc.
asciilifeform remembers 'goo' -- what happened to it ?
phf: nothing, it just sort of .. stopped
asciilifeform: '01 jun 05' -- evidently ^
phf: also i think bachrach is at berkeley
phf: there are some school that sort of, by virtue of being less known to the chinese and the arabs and whatever, managed to somewhat preserve the culture, somewhat. at least when i was investigating it. now probably fully dead.
phf: berkeley was one of them, cmu another
asciilifeform: was aboutta say, cmu
asciilifeform: tho reportedly 'they' got to it and salted the earth in '10s
verisimilitude: I applied to Berkeley as well; it's good I didn't get in there either.
verisimilitude: ``Berkeley made BSD, so it's good, right?''
asciilifeform: dunno how much the cn, arabs, had to do with the death, near as can tell they're merely opportunistically maggoting on the corpses
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: asciilifeform applied there, demoralized half way in and filled out half the form. verdict 'waitlist' lulzily
asciilifeform: also 'because bsd' lol
phf: well, it's a mutual sort of relationship. to borrow an mp kind of analogy when presented with a cock, the girl lifted her skirt to show her cunt
asciilifeform: not ever been there, or even on that side of continent, tho, lol
verisimilitude: That's vulgar and not at all clever, phf.
asciilifeform was in a 'я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин'(tm)(r) level of naivete, 'berkeley because bsd', etc., had nfi that it'd've been like 'move to rome because augustus'
verisimilitude: His writing was certainly ``hit and miss''.
phf: well, i'm stuborn, so after i realized that mit's a bust, i switched to the west coast (plus some money started coming in), and spent some time in the valley
phf: berkeley was much better preserved than either mit or stanford, so i'm not sure what verisimilitude is talking about. i guess he's a zoomer, so by his time there were no good things left.
asciilifeform asciilifeform old, but chronically socially isolated, so not got to the 'good things' until only their mummified remains, if that, remained
verisimilitude: I'm glad I got into neither, because being taught by ``experts'', even experts, would've smothered my beautiful ideas.
phf: i have to say, right before paul graham corrupted the place with the whole "startup nerd" culture, it did feel kind of exciting. i remember superhappydevhouse events, where bunch of hackers meet, spend the evening into the night, hack on things, discuss it. not many hanger ons at events like that, so it was a kind of festival of cool hacking
asciilifeform: perhaps was evenmoar exciting in days of fairchild semi. co.
phf: well, i'm sure, but go to war with army you have and all that. i remember my first shdh, you walk in, some dude comes up to you and is like "give me your phone number, i have a hacked up asterisk instance going, i want to make some noise". at some point everyone forgot about giving the number, whole house gets a call at 2am, the sample from the matrix where he gets a call gets played. that kind of stuff :D
asciilifeform if had lived there and then, and moar amicable, prolly would've also 'gone with the army you have'
phf: but less than a year later and it turns into "sillicon valley the tv show", everyone's talking about round b investment and wants you to sign nda if you glance at their laptop screen at a cofee shop
asciilifeform: as it was, dug up 'xlisp' for msdos, pg red book, sicp, inquired 'who and when built these ruined cities', not encountered living culture
verisimilitude: That's another reason to hate business, phf.
asciilifeform: phf: 'gold rush' tends to destroy errything worth touching, like plague of locusts
verisimilitude: I've effectively been asked before what money there's in learning Latin.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: answer'em 'i'm gunning to get hired as manager of vatican's nazi dental gold fund'
asciilifeform: should shut'em up
phf: "i'm treasurer for the prelature of the holy cross and opus dei"
verisimilitude: I've been wondering if my local Catholic church has a Latin speaker; I'll find out soon enough.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: iirc even after vat2 priests still gotta pass lang to get 'diploma'
verisimilitude: I've told others before that I've the makings of a Catholic priest, sans the faith.
asciilifeform suspects faith aint critical obstacle
verisimilitude: I also suspect so.
verisimilitude: So hey, backup plans are nice to have.
asciilifeform: certainly not obstacle in e.g. usg shitholes
asciilifeform: so wai vatican any different.
verisimilitude: I seem to recall, perhaps, this is a longstanding criticism of Catholicism, but no, that's silly.
asciilifeform wonders whether in some forsaken shithole there is still a uni where 'we didn't know the war ended' and lisps etc. ( maybe inria ? iirc as late as '10 was )
asciilifeform: ... at this pt prolly as likely as finding the dinosaur valley from the disney cartoon.
verisimilitude: Who needs a university with the Internet?
verisimilitude: I've had few teachers better than a book, and I can learn of and order just about any book I'd want.
verisimilitude: The modern world may be slowly decaying, but the printers still work.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not errybody rich
verisimilitude: Books are generally cheap.
asciilifeform: food & roof aint
verisimilitude: That's true.
asciilifeform: at 1 time, folx interested in ideas, often worked in universities.
asciilifeform: long ago.
verisimilitude: I don't eat out often, I'd rather use the money on books, as an example.
verisimilitude: My mother once told me that, one day, I'd find a group of likeminded and intelligent people with whom I could discuss the ideas I have; I told her that's what university was supposed to be.
phf: you think verisimilitude will go from "solitary monk" to "self flagelation is better with frens" in a lifetime, or it will take multiple generation of hikikomori to start monasteries?
verisimilitude: This was after I went and became disillusioned with university, asciilifeform.
phf: asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: phf: asciilifeform suspects that hiki aint building monasteries. ( can do hermit cave, max )
phf: i'm always reminded of anathem when thinking about things like that
verisimilitude: Let's not pretend a hikikomori monastery wouldn't end up like the Branch Davidians.
phf: "some fraa maintain discipline within confines of a single apartment"
asciilifeform: 'pinprick math'(tm)
phf: aah, ya. i forgot the terms :>
verisimilitude: I'm actually happy to work with others, in things not related to hacking, phf.
verisimilitude: Part of the reason is I acknowledge my lack of total ability in some of those things.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude ^
verisimilitude: I'm not interested in reading fiction right now.
asciilifeform: '“Pinprick maths?” “Some are no more than a one-room apartment with an electrical clock hanging on the wall and a well-stocked bookcase. One avout lives there alone, with no speely, no jeejah. Perhaps every few years an Inquisitor comes round and pokes his head in the door, just to see that all is well.”'
phf: (i will say a philistine thing, but i think anathem made the point better than glassbead game overal. glassbead is redeamed by the last chapter with the holy man, but god what a slog otherwise. and i've read my share of literature, even understood often, but suspect that hesse is actually mostly up his ass.)
asciilifeform must bbl
verisimilitude: I'll now read BBL as ``big-boy loving''.
phf: asciilifeform: there's a shout out to you in an article that's floating around https://applied-langua.ge/posts/i-dont-want-to-go-to-chel-c.html#org12582b4
asciilifeform: phf: ha, neato
asciilifeform: phf: where found this piece ?
asciilifeform: maybe could invite author here
asciilifeform finally soldered the last, for nao, pipe... tomorrow will see whether, lol, holds water
phf: asciilifeform: somebody i recently discussed uxn with saw it on hackernews
phf: author makes a similar argument to your http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-16#1102678 but against uxn. (why build another slow c machine, when maybe can try something different, something that's faster and safer and such)
asciilifeform still reading, but lulling over the benchmark, turns out the thing makes 'm' look fast in comparison
phf: it is to be fair a hipster vanity project, with a e s t h e t i c as major driving factor, but still..
asciilifeform: on surface read it looked decent for what it was ( 'colourforth' rerun ), asciilifeform didn't even notice it capped regs to 16bit , lol
asciilifeform: there's no fundamental reason for a forth to suffer this kinda braindamage
asciilifeform: 'writing "simple" software that does not achieve much on its own will does not lead to the user benefiting from simplicity. Simplicity needs to be pervasive through the system, and further in the context it resides in, for one to benefit from it. Invoking that "simple code is easier to reason about" to defend unsafe programming languages rings hollow, when the language used produces many edge cases that either require
asciilifeform: more complex code to check for, or for all users of the code to carefully avoid those cases. It similarly does not help to use a programming platform which is simple to write a slow implementation for...'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-19 16:28:25 asciilifeform: ( perhaps interestingly, attempts to solve nontrivial problems on 'parsimonius' pseudo-machine instr sets even ~more~ ugly invariably. 'the scheme disease' )
asciilifeform takes off hat
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-08-07 asciilifeform: hence naggum pissing on scheme as a 'pedo' language that is only loved by folks who like the embryonic stage of things when they have no wrinkles (by his lights)
phf: lol, i pulled comments from various aggregators, people are foaming.
phf: url was more fun than content
asciilifeform: tldr: 'zoomer' maintainer at tbtfco of an eliza decided 'it's alive!', started 'defending its rights', finally sacked
asciilifeform recalls ancient su children's book, nao sadly forgotten title, where posed q 'should i say thank-you to the lift in my hruscheba?'
phf: well the fact that bot is "girl" might also have something to do with something :>
phf: taking simping to next level there
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-12 00:32:20 asciilifeform: 'what he should do instead is refer to this main loop as "G0034" and see if he can convince himself or anyone else that G0034 implements some part of understanding'.
asciilifeform: there's a surprisingly edible brit transl. btw.
asciilifeform has dead tree, but no warez atm
phf: i've stopped caring about translations. girl is not particularly interested in modern fiction, read karenina and such, and i've literally not once had somebody read my recommendation
phf: in fact crtdaydreams reading taor might be first!
asciilifeform regularly feeds pet ( whose orcish mebbe at 5th grade level atm ) various strange in translation, incl. self-baked
phf: hah same
phf: well, by somebody i mean friends and strangers
phf: yeah, that statement is getting a lot of exceptions, but i've actually kind of given up. what is it people don't read anymore? not long form anyway..
asciilifeform knows 'people who read longform' but certainly notenuff for 'army'. platoon, at most.
asciilifeform: could perhaps muster a company, if tried hard.