BingoBoingo: asciilifeform Occasionally orcs have the Miami illusion broken, but more rubbing faces of Californians and New Yorkers that they are third world now.
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2020/10/ussa-flailing-begins-as-tech-firms-go-all-in-on-in-kind-contributions-to-biden-campaign/ << The Montevideo Standard -- USSA: Flailing Begins As Tech Firms Go All In On In Kind Contributions To Biden Campaign
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $13114.69
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.087s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.106s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.085s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.161s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=652492 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.089s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.189s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.225s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.274s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=654557
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : (182518.pk.3pp.slovanet.sk) Alive: (0.301s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=431434
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.271s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391673 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
cgra: asciilifeform: i've taken a break from trb study and sat on your FFA course bench
asciilifeform: wb cgra. how'd it go ?
cgra: the context strongly suggests i just atm suck at binary thinking, so i came looking for advice to better understand the thought model related to FZ word order. It's been discussed previously, but I didn't get a clue from there enough to understand why isn't junior-word-first worse than senior-word-first
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-04-18 asciilifeform: to sum up the thread, asciilifeform's 'official' position is that this entire subj is exactly naggum's 'tooth licking' -- it is problem only if someone fixates on thinking of it as problem.
cgra: personally, my brain melts at this point (i have no issue with ch 10 diagrams), because while Q's bits really step into R, shifting QR contents *left* strongly suggests the opposite, "QR" has "R" on the right, from where going left, ends up in "Q".
asciilifeform looks
cgra: i didn't understand how ada index syntax would've helped anything. my brain keeps insisting on "why not senior word on FZ'First, junior word on FZ'Last", and get rid of extra "shift zig-zag" thinking pattern
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-04-18 asciilifeform: folx who dun like that ada asks you to write arrays low ... high , can make own lang and write arithmetron for selves in it, it is not a priority for asciilifeform and i dun see an argument for making it one.
asciilifeform: cgra: i don't see where is this alleged 'zigzag'
cgra: possibly only in my brain, i'll try and open it up more:
asciilifeform: cgra: FZ are stored junior-word-first. exactly same as in every other (afaik) bignum system to date.
cgra: shifting left contents of "QR", would imply by name that whatever is on R, drifts into Q. which is not true in this case. when i try to get my head around of the reality, this is where i end up thinking zig-zag.
cgra: where should i look for to understand why junior-word-first?
cgra: just dig libs' code?
asciilifeform: cgra: i cannot picture why you would even contemplate storing'em senior-first. this is like to ask 'why not stand on yer head' imho.
cgra: heh, yes. this must be why it isn't talked much. it's exactly how i feel, too. my brain was wired "left-handed" apparently
asciilifeform: cgra: in principle, it would be possible to do all of ffa in standing-on-head order -- e.g. in add/sub, decrement loops instead of increment, and so on. but ~why~ .
cgra: i keep wanting to think the bignum in "paper order", and i get zig-zag on shifts if they're junior-first, ie. not paper order
cgra: asciilifeform: is "paper order" senior-word first in your mind?
asciilifeform: cgra: i think i can see why you (and at least 1 other reader in the past) confused. you picture Q on left because when writing 'QR' , it is written first. whereas in reality Q refers to the ~bottom~ Dividend'Length-word portion of the register QR.
cgra: my brain wants words to be in same order as in intra-word bits, does that make any more sense?
asciilifeform: cgra: as you read, make a list of cases like this, i'ma consider'em for stylistic fix prior to (future) dead-tree ver. of ffa.
asciilifeform: cgra: my problem arguably is that i have no trouble (unconsciously) flipping left-rights as-needed correctly.
asciilifeform: as i wrote ffa, i pictured registers as physical objects, and rotated'em as-req'd in my head.
cgra: asciilifeform: yeah this, sounds what i meant
asciilifeform: cgra: aha. so, what to you feels like zigzag, to me simply 'looking from behind'. but imho is fair criticism, in all places where e.g. XY, oughta be so that X refers to upper portion of XY, and Y -- to lower .
cgra: right
asciilifeform: in e.g. multiplication, i used explicit 'Lo' and 'Hi' to denote. prolly oughta retrofit same convention to earlier ch's.
asciilifeform: cgra: i gotta go shortly, but do not hesitate to throw ffaisms into the log, i promise to answer'em in detail asap.
cgra: i suppose in the long run, shouldn't hurt to exercise my brain though (for reading versatility), asciilifeform have any idea from where did this model of thinking got stuck?
asciilifeform: cgra: yours or mine ?
cgra: yours
cgra: asciilifeform: i'll take notes of those "zig-zag" issues and let you know sometime in the future
asciilifeform: in example 'QR', i think of Q as lower, given that it appears first. as if were expanded into list, {Q1, Q2, ..., Qk, R1, R2, ..., Rj} of words.
asciilifeform: cgra: does this make sense to you ?
cgra: asciilifeform: i gotta split as well, had really small window of contact here. i'll consider your comments and return when got anything to talk about
asciilifeform: ok. later then.
cgra: laters
shinohai: asciilifeform: "internal server error" when searching logs on yer www
asciilifeform: shinohai: what's the search string ?
asciilifeform does not recall ever achieving eggog when testing search, other than on certain malformed uniturds (all afaik handled in recent vers)
asciilifeform still cannot grasp how the fuck folx think 'i saw eggog' is a usefully complete eggog report. WHAT WAS THE INPUT ??!!! for fuck's sake!
asciilifeform bbl.