Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-01-30 | 2022-02-01 → ↓
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077292 << for difficulty=1, the "target" (ie. the maximum allowed hash value) = 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000; so: target / genesis_hash ~= 2536 (dunno why i first rounded up, to 2600)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 15:18:45 asciilifeform: or hm, iirc needed 32 leading 0 bits at diff1. which'd make the genesis, with 43 leading 0's, 2^11 i.e. '2048x harder than had to'
asciilifeform: cgra: this seems like a peculiar way to calculate the 'overwork', considering that the diff is quantized by the upper bits and the bottom segment being 'less' dun help
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 14 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=721191
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=721191 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=721191
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.158s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.317s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.319s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.594s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.556s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=721191
watchglass: 94.176.238.102:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
cgra: asciilifeform: this comparison is the pov i'm looking at this from. you just try a random number and it's either <= the threshold, or above it. if above, keep trying.
asciilifeform: cgra: aha
cgra: asciilifeform: re bottom segment not helping, do you mean 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 would've been a valid hash under minimum difficulty (note the LSB)?
asciilifeform: well no
asciilifeform: gotta be < the diff
asciilifeform: e.g. 0x1fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff would've been, tho
asciilifeform notices that per the coad, it's technically <= rather than <. but would be surprised if anyone ever 'won' this 'lotto'
cgra 's clutch is slipping. difficulty grasping asciilifeform's thinking
asciilifeform: minor nitpick.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 10:28:26 asciilifeform: notices that per the coad, it's technically <= rather than <. but would be surprised if anyone ever 'won' this 'lotto'
asciilifeform: if (hash > bnTarget.getuint256())
asciilifeform: i.e. can be == and still meet diff
cgra: asciilifeform: i think i said exactly so, here at least
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 10:18:48 cgra: asciilifeform: this comparison is the pov i'm looking at this from. you just try a random number and it's either <= the threshold, or above it. if above, keep trying.
asciilifeform still waking up, lol
cgra: hehe, and i was heading to bed when saw your first comments re this overwork math
asciilifeform recalls looking at this yrs ago and wondering whether the '==' case in fact would be easier for a hypothetical sat-solving, i.e. non-bruteforce miner
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-07-17 asciilifeform: (frame the hash operation as a logical 'sat' system, work backwards to exclude regions of possible input state space based on known output bits)
cgra: though any idea how to connect? i still don't see any peculiarity in my kindergarten approach
cgra: asciilifeform: re "quantized by upper bits", do you mean mining works more efficiently if in case of minimum difficulty, you aim at or under 000000007fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff instead? ie. guaranteed less top bits than the threshold
asciilifeform: cgra: iirc the iron miners only look at the top n bits, aha
cgra: ah so while settle for "up to twice as difficult", gain elsewhere more than that
asciilifeform: correct, no subtraction
cgra were pointed out yet another snot blob hanging in the same, neverending strain :D
asciilifeform: whole thing is epic ball o'snot, doubt it could've been any 'dirtier' if it'd been e.g. a microshit product.
signpost: in other balls of snot news:
signpost: raised STORAGE_ERROR : stack overflow or erroneous memory access
signpost: lolol
signpost may have to do some optimization yet.
signpost: gcc, binutils, and linux kernel are pretty fat.
signpost: ah, looks like it might've gagged on having multiple in the same patches dir. separating out just gcc patches worx.
signpost: more convenient to have them separated anyway, will have something like software/gcc/patches software/gcc/seals, I think.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 14:52:02 signpost: raised STORAGE_ERROR : stack overflow or erroneous memory access
asciilifeform: (gnat runtime that is)
asciilifeform: dollars to doughnuts you'll find a corresponding oom corpse in dmesg
signpost: yeah, it barfed with several gig of src in ./patches in multiple trees
signpost: will investigate, but not blocked by it since I don't need to be able to do that.
signpost: paste lost a line, that was a v flow call
vex: $ticker btc usd
asciilifeform: vex: bot awol
vex: i see
vex: 38400 according to bitcoinity
vex: !e view-balance 1comboyNsev2ubWRbPZpxxNhghLfonzuN
trbexplorer: block_height: 721265
trbexplorer: value_sats: 311707787
trbexplorer: value_btc: 3.11707787
vex: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-27#1069796] Is pest going to improve my wot experience? Why the fuck should I rate every aquaintance -10 to 10 for all to see?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-27 13:16:35 asciilifeform: sees pest, in 'big picture', as a generalization of the wot, rather than simply replacement for ircism.
vex: I don't like the wot that I've seen. it seems basic
vex: rate wot 1, does what it says on the box
vex: alf's bytebrief nomenclature re signing patches is much more appealing
asciilifeform: 'how will square roots serve me?'(tm)(r)(mp)
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-03-22 asciilifeform: i'ma let mircea_popescu give the one-troo summary if he feels like ( it's his article ) but will say, it was about the archetypical f-student schoolbois's canonical lament 'what good will learning square roots do for me'
asciilifeform: vex: signatures of vpatches or anyffin else for that matter are meaningless outside of a wot.
asciilifeform: why rate people? obv. you can live w/out rating people. or for that matter, some manage to live more or less w/out talking to people at all
shinohai: looooooool
vex: I think I understand, but why just rate floormonkeys? could there not be a standard for man or machine?
asciilifeform: one doesn't rate people, or machines, for that matter, but pubkeys.
asciilifeform: elementarily.
vex: so why share an array of 1-10 with erryone?
asciilifeform: vex: what kinda array, and with whom, wouldja prefer to share?
vex: I've never rated anyone
asciilifeform: vex: was it strictly b/c in signpost's thing it's 1-10, and vex cannot abide this, needs e.g. 1-64 ?
vex: Why should I send that too all and sundry?
vex: 1-64 is better
asciilifeform: soo, to whom exactly, would send then?
vex: o.0
vex: i need to ponder this more. what was signpost's thing?
asciilifeform: iirc we discussed hypothetical pestronic wot, where yer peers can ask for yer ratings. and imho this wins, but strictly because eliminates the need for 'wot lives on 1 d00d's www', rather than because it makes any kinda sense to keep ratings seekrit
vex: seems correct, then I can tell somone one thing and sonelks another
asciilifeform: and imho ideally ratings would be visible to one's pestnet via broadcast
asciilifeform: vex: elaborate: why wouldja want to do this?
vex: not sure. I've had a couple of cocktails. the thing that always bugs me is that wot ratings seem like privledges info
asciilifeform: seems like a certain path to getting rated '-64: schizo' by errybody, eventually
vex: perhaps
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 13:00:46 cgra: whaack: i'm possibly not aware of all implications, but i keep contemplating a 'pesttronic block explorer' accepting read-only sql queries from wot
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 14:23:19 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077257 << imho the correct place for a block exploder is ultimately a pseudoserver within trb noad per se, locally
vex: for instance, I might trust you to use my computer, but not my car
whaack: cgra: yes, i think somewhere in the logs i discussed how i wanted to open up the ability to do any general sql read query
mats: an o(1) lookup would be great
mats: think there's mugs selling api access to bitcoin in bigquery
vex: I don't want to tell everyone that you're not invited to drive my car
asciilifeform: vex: so don't ?
mats: nvm, its free
asciilifeform: mats: best of all'd be a o(1) lookup ~in own trb noad~ db
whaack: but making this feature is not a priority because as asciilifeform says, your blockexplorer should be run locally
mats: thats what i meant
asciilifeform: all the req'd parts are there. 'just add glue'
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
whaack: it's pretty nice to be able to look up my addresses and the addresses of ppl i do biz with without having to share that lookup data with anyone
vex: I'll think on it asciilifeform, and you can drive my car. There's vodka in the glovebox
asciilifeform: why ty vex .
asciilifeform: whaack: correct. if you think about it, is rather what trb is ~for~ to begin with -- agreeing on the troo state of a shared db.
whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077261 << do you have suggestions for improvement?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 13:27:15 signpost: the IRC request -> paste response mechanism is a rough approximation that can be much improved.
asciilifeform: in that light makes very little sense to 'how do i moar conveniently share this db w/ selected people'
mats: shouldn't this lookup functionality already be in bitcoind
asciilifeform: mats: well e.g. prb doesn't even index anyffin outside of 'utxo'
asciilifeform: ( trb -- does, but there's 0 useful db glue that'd letcha query externally )
mats: sounds like a plan
asciilifeform: whaack: likewise, pest (as currently pictured in spec) lets you invite peers to make db queries when it makes sense . i.e. 'getdata' cmd.
asciilifeform: can't think of too many cases where 'expose arbitrary sql queries' is the obvious Right Thing tho
asciilifeform: normally there's a much moar narrowly-definable thing yer actually aiming to do
whaack: exposing arbitrary sql queries immediately makes me think one is in a 'research and development' mindset
asciilifeform: it's just shorta giving sumbody shell on yer box
asciilifeform: yes, sometimes you might like to
vex: ^tax free in oz al la dr wrong
asciilifeform: but for most collaborations it aint req'd and in fact rather 'heavyweight'
whaack: haha right, might as well do that !
asciilifeform: it's rather like giving friends keys to your house. (or even, say, garage.) yes, sometimes people do this. but not often needed, and most folx would rather you didn't give'em
asciilifeform: to extend -- most folx manage to have social life w/out giving erryone they socialize with keys to their car.
vex: i'd be uncomfortable in a borrowed car.
asciilifeform: you similarly prolly wouldn't ~want~ to have a drawer w/ n d00ds' car keys in it.
asciilifeform: ~0 good is likely to come of it.
vex: verily
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: there is a related soviet joke. abramowitch (generic jew, not the oligarch) calls a friend who was over for dinner last night:
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: 'we're short of a few silver spoons. shame on you';
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: friend denies
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-04 asciilifeform: next day, A calls again 'we found the spoons. but the stain on your reputation... it remains.'
asciilifeform must bbl.
vex goes to took if the big bloke reported lulz
vex: I luld
vex: It'd be a summary offence if alf left the vodka untouched
vex: mats. where's the value at?
vex: how do we price .ykp?
vex: I feel like I can speak on behalf of mats; stfu vex
vex: BingoBoingo. I hope like fuck you're working hard at a new endeavour. proof of life pls
vex: good news bad news. something cunt
vex: perhaps I can extend my small mind to some other awesome floormonkeys
vex: billymg. I read your lappy install
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:24:07 whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077261 << do you have suggestions for improvement?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 13:41:01 signpost: but upstack, the logical progression of IRC botworks is being able to (deedbot:deed "signed payload to be deeded") into pest, and receive back an ack that it was heard.
signpost: nothing wrong with what's being done now. eventually it'd be nice to have a structured message format for bots, with which we'd, for example, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077442
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:14:40 asciilifeform: iirc we discussed hypothetical pestronic wot, where yer peers can ask for yer ratings. and imho this wins, but strictly because eliminates the need for 'wot lives on 1 d00d's www', rather than because it makes any kinda sense to keep ratings seekrit
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077443 << this makes you a lying shitbag if you make a habit of it, ftr.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:15:19 vex: seems correct, then I can tell somone one thing and sonelks another
signpost: if your relationships don't matter to you, nor honor, wot's not going to make a drop of sense.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:17:06 asciilifeform: seems like a certain path to getting rated '-64: schizo' by errybody, eventually
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077452 << ah. access permission is a separate thing from wot.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:18:22 vex: for instance, I might trust you to use my computer, but not my car
signpost: using wot like a "score" which grants you permission to do things perverts it, becomes a performative-before-eyes-of-dictatorship social credit score.
vex: i pri don't understand it.
vex: not trying to pervert anything
signpost just stating ftr.
signpost: such that you understand moar
vex appreciates the insight
signpost: that said distributed "turo" or w/e is interesting; I've pondered it a lot too
vex: ? whats turo
signpost: airbnb-clone for car rentals.
vex: ah. it's a serial killer local in oz
billymg: vex: nice, what'd you think of the article?
signpost: yeah, quite a lot of these. I'm not sure whether they work without the pile of VC money flowing into insurance, at least in fiat world.
vex: haven't fully parsed it billymg. nice to know it's there
billymg: glad to hear it, more on the way too
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077509 << for most bot-to-bot cases, would expect sexpr would work a++
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 22:09:55 signpost: nothing wrong with what's being done now. eventually it'd be nice to have a structured message format for bots, with which we'd, for example, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077442
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077529 << recently asciilifeform had occasion to purchase anuther auto insurance policy; bulk of the paperwork was filled by 'yes i swear it won't be driven for profit or lent out, yes ack that this immediately voids the policy' etc etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 22:18:07 signpost: yeah, quite a lot of these. I'm not sure whether they work without the pile of VC money flowing into insurance, at least in fiat world.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077518 << thinking about this, the only ratings which have mechanizable meaning are 0 and posint
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 22:13:08 signpost: using wot like a "score" which grants you permission to do things perverts it, becomes a performative-before-eyes-of-dictatorship social credit score.
asciilifeform: errything else -- cosmetic
asciilifeform: 0 readily corresponds to 'not peered', posint -- 'peer'
asciilifeform: yes being able to 'rate bozo -10 he fucks goats' is on some level satisfying. but asciilifeform dun recall a single occasion where 'hm i think i'll do biz with bozo... oh hm waitaminute my l1 folx rated him -10 fucks pigs.. hm nm'
asciilifeform: a persistent bozo invariably bakes new key and turns to 0 whenever he feels like it
asciilifeform: hence 'cosmetic'.
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