Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-01-18 | 2022-01-20 → ↓
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-16#1073491 << gave it a crank; the dulap tar lacks a gnat.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-16 21:40:28 asciilifeform: signpost: whole thing sounds a++ nifty; would be a+++ nifty if could bootstrap it from dulap-gentoo (iirc last time asciilifeform tried, no liftoff, needed concretely a debian of some kind)
signpost: looks like it will otherwise work. recommend a gnat binwad for this purpose?
signpost: this is a reason I started with `debootstrap` plus a wad of debs.
asciilifeform: signpost: lemme know if that one worx
asciilifeform: (iirc oughta)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-18 22:31:51 verisimilitude: So, I believe I've noticed a flaw in software relating to this IRC. May I attempt to exploit this for amusement, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074316 << this was discussed exhaustively in #t. yes you can collect FG output. on hypothetical 'sane comp' tho there's no good reason not to have a MB+/s lyso-FG tho.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-18 22:48:20 verisimilitude: Regarding a sane computer with an FG, it would be interesting to use volatile RAM to cache the FG output, up to some limit, so that it may temporarily be used at a greater rate than it can be produced. None of this would, or should, be backed up to disk, so there wouldn't be any issue. The only issue is it may result in a system not recovering from power failure as quickly as a lightbulb, were it needing heavy entropy.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-20 18:11:41 asciilifeform: Aerthean: what also want, ideally, is a 100% analogue filter to count ~only~ the L decay events (i.e. the exact opposite of what folx who use LYSO scintillators normally do.)
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $42458.88
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 14 nodes...
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.102s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=719463
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=719463
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.259s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.154s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=719463 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463
watchglass: 94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.314s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718917
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.590s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.197s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=719463
watchglass: 75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: shinohai: could've sworn there was almost identical circus performance last yr
shinohai: afaik first time he has actually filed circus papers.
shinohai: For this anyway
asciilifeform admits surprise that reich has not grown a new, fresh shitoshi just yet. that one's rather long in the tooth
asciilifeform supposes they're expecting some 'result' from all the moolah sunk into 'his' lawsuits etc
shinohai: Hoaxtoshi only has monies from Australian tax fraud afaik - Calvin Ayre is the one bankrolling most of the legal stuff.
shinohai: (Who just so happened to fall off the DHS most wanted list so very quietly)
billymg: i'm about to try shinohai's guide for building gnat with musl ave1.org appears to be down
billymg: asciilifeform: ty
billymg: high profile gox (shilled by no other than Matt Damon) "pausing withdrawals" "because of hack": https://archive.is/zebvV
billymg: no different from 3rd world bucket shops
billymg: also came across this writeup of how shitcoins are run now run by the likes of a16z, rather than the russian and pajeet scammers of the 2014-2017 era
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074360 <<< toppest of keks, especially in light of entire sports arena renaming itself as "crypto.com center" .....
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 11:44:03 billymg: high profile gox (shilled by no other than Matt Damon) "pausing withdrawals" "because of hack": https://archive.is/zebvV
billymg: shinohai: even comes complete with obligatory "funds are safu" note from management
asciilifeform: lol, typical
asciilifeform: also imho unsurprising that sv printola pipeline terminals are directly pushing shitcoins -- the latter are a premier 'divert usd from pushing up btc-usd exch rate' reich.device. ( rather than merely general-purpose ponzis )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 20:03:58 asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov shitcoins are simply ponzis (operated with the connivance of reich, which fails to prosecute'em)
asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc mats mentioned actually using sumthing like that
asciilifeform: (or was considering it?)
asciilifeform: some setup where one borrows fiatola w/ btc (sitting in a gox, naturally, how else) as collateral
shinohai could not see himself locking up BTC for pretend "ownership" of property in USSA .....
billymg: same thing will happen to the BTC as happened to the houses in 08
billymg: they'll crash the market "oops you're underwater now, breached terms of loans, we'll take the BTC now"
asciilifeform: the even moar odd thing is -- why?? ( typically in usa the house itself is its own collateral, i.e. gets repossessed on default )
asciilifeform: i suppose natural that the scammers aint satisfied with the old scheme ( 'what if can't be pawned onto anuther chump for >= sum as orig. loan ??' ) hence this.
billymg: the whole "don't sell your btc, borrow against it!" meme felt like such a huge psyop, often promoted by never-sell maxis
asciilifeform: billymg: prolly also appealing to folx trying to play tax games
asciilifeform: ('if not sold, not taxed' or sumthing, at least until tax updated..)
asciilifeform: ( given as atm 'buying with btc' from a reich.corp currently req's ~2x the nominal mass of coin )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 10:42:23 asciilifeform: punkman: in usa, if you have any kind of official presence there, when you buy xyz for coin from a usg.corp, they file a 'form 1099' tax report to declare that you've 'sold' coin and received its usd equiv. as 'income' (whether or not it in fact sold in the usual sense) and you eventually get a bill for up to half (!) of the sum.
asciilifeform wonders whether he counts as 'never-sell maxi' or what precisely it is
shinohai admits to using "paywithmoon" to convert btc to fiat without all the KYC/gox hassles ......
asciilifeform: wassat?
billymg: asciilifeform: i think most of us here count as "never-sell maxis", or to put it another way
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 19:51:23 asciilifeform: 'hodl' until victory/death.
billymg: the ones on twitter promoting the lending schemes were exploiting this by saying "see, if you borrow against your btc you get to buy the fancy car and still HODL", never mentioning that you must give up your keys
shinohai: asciilifeform: can get "prepay" visa cards with it.
billymg: shinohai: can signup with any email?
shinohai: Yup, I signed up with my "shinohai@nigge.rs" email, worx fine.
billymg: kek
billymg: i've seen more of these popping up, bitrefill is another, zero kyc (not even signup on that one, but doesn't offer general-purpose CCs, only gift cards)
asciilifeform realizes that he has sumthing like a personal 'laws of robotics' for 'when to spend coin' (or rather, when not to) :
billymg: reich must be getting desperate enough for coin that they're allowing the operation of non-kyc avenues
asciilifeform: spend no coin where...
asciilifeform: 1. ... it'll be taxed (i.e. some uknown, potentially up to 100%, of its value confiscated by busybodies taxing imaginary 'gain', which in actuality consists strictly of ~their~ toiletpaper's debasement)
asciilifeform: 2. ... in exchange for ~fuffles~ (e.g. bags of fiat not immediately destined to be spent on durable necessities; plastic autos; titles to 'property' in the reich)
billymg: "fine fine, you dun have to pay the tax, just give us the btc"
asciilifeform: 3. ... when it'd be your last coin.
billymg: ^ pretty good list of commandments
asciilifeform: by no means exhaustive but more or less sums up 'axioms' from asciilifeform's pov
shinohai: https://coincards.com/us/brands/ <<< also a++ shop for BTC to GC needs.
asciilifeform: a corollary -- 'if you dun have the keys, your coin is spent'
asciilifeform: (but imho obv. to all tuned in folx)
asciilifeform: #3 by recursion does imply that one oughn't to ever spend coin faster than yer taking it in. which i suppose makes asciilifeform a 'maxi' or whatnot
shinohai: Sadly my relationship with MP deteriorated before I could make "coins4cunts" a reality.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i dun recall him having a 'cunts4coins' going with which you could've filled the supply side of a that
asciilifeform: 'You cannot use Moon or the Moon Card for the following purchases: wires or money orders; direct marketing services; security brokers/dealers and associated activities; dating/escort services; massage services; betting, track, casino, or lotto; government-licensed online gambling, including casinos and online casinos (online gambling); horse/dog racing or other government licensed racing; non-sport internet gaming; int
asciilifeform: ernet gaming betting; cash disbursement, manual or automated; financial institution cash, automated or manual; and outbound telemarking merchants and services.'
asciilifeform: 'Each virtual card can hold a maximum of $1000 at any time. Users may only spend $10,000 in any given 24 hour period across all of their virtual cards. Users may only spend $50,000 in any given calendar month across all of their virtual cards.'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074397 << these historically simply 'bait & switch', like the atm's -- 'let'em get used to it, w/ microscopic qtys, then glue on kyc'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 12:24:04 billymg: reich must be getting desperate enough for coin that they're allowing the operation of non-kyc avenues
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-18 17:55:01 mats: if you go to larger metro areas you might still find atms without kyc, or trades up to some low amt like 3k with sms verification
thimbronion: my rules are a bit simpler. hold zero fiat.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'zero' taken literally is rather hair shirt imho (rly, if yer tyre pops you gotta find a hawaladar 1st to get some usd ?)
signpost buys "when blood in the streets", worked so far with BTC
signpost: expecting moar blood
thimbronion: asciilifeform: this is a solved problem. get a credit card, pay it off once a month.
asciilifeform: for 'when to buy' asciilifeform will not attempt 'algorithm', pretty much any time you have with what is a++ time
asciilifeform: with what, where, etc.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: by selling btc.
billymg: asciilifeform: possibly, but at some point i suspect the reich won't even care about the extra 20% "capital gains" tax, already taxed much more than that
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 12:24:15 asciilifeform: 1. ... it'll be taxed (i.e. some uknown, potentially up to 100%, of its value confiscated by busybodies taxing imaginary 'gain', which in actuality consists strictly of ~their~ toiletpaper's debasement)
signpost: asciilifeform: nothing wrong with that either
asciilifeform: billymg: afaik there isn't even a deterministic algo for 'i need q*x coin to buy this item priced x, q >= 1.0, cuz tax'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 09:01:39 asciilifeform: i.e. is deliberately inefficient, and there is quite deliberately no deterministic method to actually guarantee that you paid 100% of what's Officially req'd
signpost: but I feel pretty comfortable expecting boom/bust cycles from the bankers
signpost bought plenty already, but ain't ever opposed to cheap moar
billymg: asciilifeform: i know, but perhaps something like the "hey apple, bring some of that money you have in Ireland back to the US, we'll give you a reduced tax rate" will happen with bitcoin
billymg: i think likely, because otherwise no one will give it up
signpost: billymg: I think it will be much more FDR than that.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: also if you have income and you convert it to btc immediately, cap gains are not an issue, since you can do lifo accounting.
signpost: if the US doesn't thrash "right" over covid policy it'll have a wealth tax before long.
signpost: and you'll pay capgains plus that, if you pay at all.
billymg: signpost: they might try it, but btc has properties that would make it difficult
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 19:44:07 asciilifeform: sucked largely because vulnerable to lizarding : can't teleport it, or hide it in yer head
signpost: this goes back to asciilifeform's point on the "customer-aquisition cost" to the feds.
signpost: "empire can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" lol
signpost: that said you're outside eh? perhaps somebody lets you declare refugee status in time.
billymg: signpost: that would also be interesting imo
billymg: regime does seem spread thin
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-10 20:36:06 signpost: punkman: I'm glad Bukele's still alive.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-10 20:36:12 signpost: the regime's clearly slipping
asciilifeform: meanwhile in misc. heathen lulz.
billymg: re: FDR, does anyone know how effective that actually was? i.e. roughly what % of privately held gold they were able to collect?
asciilifeform: billymg: depends what means 'collect'. the bulk of the theft was not in physical bricks but in defaulting on old usg obligations denominated in au.
asciilifeform: ( there was an mp piece re subj, dun recall which immed. tho )
asciilifeform: that one.
billymg: i meant more strictly in the sense of "hey pleb, we know you've got some gold coins in yer backyard, give 'em up!"
asciilifeform: iirc there was only 1 (Officially recorded, that is) fdr.dekulakization involving physical au. some german.
billymg: usg doesn't owe me any debts so don't really care how they denominate those
asciilifeform: conning folx outta their coinz atm is over9000x moar roi than hypothetical mass rectotherming, so would expect it'll continue.
asciilifeform: the reason why various 2010s 'they'll ban goxes!' prognoses (incl. asciilifeform's) came to nuffin, is that turns out goxes are a very effective instrument of exchrate control, and therefore quite valuable to the reich.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 19:29:01 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072938 << imho the enemy's strategy is presently to 'raise it to stratosphere then drop outta plane' periodically.
asciilifeform: w/out goxing and usg.tolerated shitcoin proliferation, the exchrate of a 'banned like cocaine' btc would very likely track usd debasement monotonically and do to usd what usd did to sov ruble.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 19:30:42 asciilifeform: it worx in that btcusd aint monotonically tracking 'the real inflation'(tm)(r) and this effectively keeps out over9000 would-be buyers who would otherwise throw usg.stocks, real estate, etc. to junkyard and go 'full bore' btc
mats: banning exchanges means depriving themselves of revenues
asciilifeform: ( re 'the btc of the 20th c', gold, recall that its possession in 'monetary' (i.e. above mass of wedding band or so) in hrusch-era sovok was punishable by death; yet not uncommon )
mats: doesn't make sense
asciilifeform: mats: not only of revenues, but of exch rate dampage.
mats: that's very dubious
mats: considering binance is bigger than the next 5 exchanges combined
mats: its not 2011
asciilifeform: rright, iirc pov of mats is that the exch rate is output of 'will of allah' rather than anyffin the reich does..
mats: you're overestimating some factors over others
mats: binance doesn't subordinate to any sovereign
asciilifeform goes to binance.com, sees :
asciilifeform: 'Binance is unable to provide services to U.S. users. Binance.US (BAM Trading Services) is a US-regulated cryptocurrency trading platform. In approved states, U.S. customers can use Binance.US to buy and sell over 50 cryptocurrencies with low fees.'
asciilifeform: what do we call this
mats: that's the price of being a pirate
asciilifeform: some pirate.
mats: other dipshits won't let you trade with their cattle
asciilifeform: pirates dun giveashit re 'not let'
mats: plenty of americans trade on binance
mats: they just use shitcoins as intermediaries
mats: bnb market cap is an astonishing 90bn usd
mats: the world has moved on my friend
asciilifeform: mats: moved on from what to what ?
asciilifeform: loox precisely like the goxes of e.g. 5y ago
mats: aml/kyc exchanges aren't the centre anymore
asciilifeform: where 'yea you can log in with a proxy, just fughet about wiring to/from a usa bank'
mats: i mean, binance does have those programs in some places
asciilifeform: i recall e.g. 'bitstamp' being precisrly same
mats: but cz is fighting regulators in a ridiculous number of jurisdictions and his exchange is still supreme
mats: he basically lives in hiding
mats: binance is a better exchange than mpex ever was
billymg: mats: binance is non-kyc? i genuinely thought the last of those died with btc-e
mats: they do it, but it is easily circumventable, and many do
billymg: don't all of them do the "hold passport next to your face and take photo" now? circumventable as in hire a homeless guy to stand in the photo with a fake?
mats: no, you use an illiterate guy with a real passport
billymg: and then wire money where?
mats: to one of binance's many service providers that will take wires and give you a shitcoin
mats: which have highly liquid markets with tight spreads
billymg: ah, so for shitcoin exchange, but not for if want fiat
asciilifeform: 'you can hire a shill to play kyc for you' != 'kyc-free'
mats: the solution is always to not be poor
asciilifeform: (not only is the shill an additional trusted counterparty -- often enuff he could wake up and decide it's 'his' coin/usd -- but at some pt the subterfuge will be discovered, and punished, most likely, w/ confiscation)
asciilifeform: mats: buy own planet aha. worx a+++
billymg: mats: i still don't see how you get usable fiat out of binance, even with the scheme you described
asciilifeform: if i were mats wouldn't say how, lol
mats: you say that like people want fiat
mats: you trade shitcoins back for fiat
mats: the illiterate's not going to wake up one day and realise you signed them up for n accounts at binance and localbank
mats: keep them in clothes shelter and food, with a minder, not cheap but solvable
mats: this is a pre-bitcoin thing, remember mossack fonseca?
asciilifeform: mats: this is famously how Officially-verboten folx buy small arms in usa. to the point that errywhere such are sold (even pawn shops etc) nao have signs in gigantic letters, for semiliterate, listing draconian punishments for shilling
billymg: mats: the local bank account that you opened in the illiterate's name will be frozen immediately upon receiving the first wire
asciilifeform: presumably still happens, despite signs
asciilifeform: but not same thing as 'oh can buy w/out kyc'
mats: billymg: some, maybe
asciilifeform: in usg.legalistic parlance these are referred to as 'mules'
asciilifeform: in order to be willing to sign up as 'mule', given the risk/reward ratio, one generally has to suffer from down's, or close
mats: or... poverty
asciilifeform: (and the handler in turn has to be willing to make use of such material)
asciilifeform: if it worx for you -- a++
asciilifeform: will work in 1000y just like works nao
asciilifeform: but to argue that this means 'here's a gox w/out kyc' is rather disingenuous.
mats: whatever, just reporting the news
asciilifeform: and asciilifeform was just tryin' to figure out what part of the news was newsy
asciilifeform: seems moar like 'olds' imho
asciilifeform: in this case
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074511 << i forget where i read this but saw some list of ways to identify "suspicious activity" (for bank employees), one of them was "customer makes large or frequent transactions that seem out of line with their income level"
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 18:20:49 asciilifeform: mats: this is famously how Officially-verboten folx buy small arms in usa. to the point that errywhere such are sold (even pawn shops etc) nao have signs in gigantic letters, for semiliterate, listing draconian punishments for shilling
asciilifeform: mules are 'solution' to kyc like selfbuilt helicopter is solution to traffic jams.
billymg: i think even went far enough to mention "standing in society" or "class" or "how they dress" or something to that effect
billymg: seemed targeted directly at mats' hire a local illiterate strategy
asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform at one pt signed a consulting agreement with a 'financial' co and had to go through lulzy lectures & quizzes re subj
billymg: mentioned the reasoning "this person may be a mule"
asciilifeform: (wholly unrelated to coinism, fwiw. but 'financial', and ergo 'regulated', and so on)
mats: owning a bent banker is also not cheap, but solvable
mats: not like the bank ever has any idea wtf is going on with customers anyway
asciilifeform: aha, rather like a uboat would have solved the 'import servers to uy' problem
asciilifeform: 'don't be poor!'
asciilifeform: buy uboat, sure.
billymg: mats: also, i had experience with this a few weeks ago. i sent a small christmas bonus (about $500) to my groundskeeper. they froze his account until he explained where it came from. keep in mind this was from my local account to his, and we have a now year+ history of transactions between those accounts
mats: threshold for SARs has effectively dropped every year monotonically since installation
mats: its a useless fucking signal now
mats: nobody reads those
asciilifeform: mats: reich is famously slow but does eventually update the #s
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-10 13:27:49 asciilifeform: other thing is that in current-day usa the path from 'gox made you a 1099' to collections takes 4-5y
billymg: so, no, i don't believe that if the illiterate local receives a 5k wire from hong kong that they won't ask any questions
mats: ok
thimbronion: billymg: fwiw has sent larger sums in cr and to nicaragua without issue
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074448 << suppose fungal or other gut critter spread turns out to be a driver of gay sex. that would be highly entertaining.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 12:51:39 asciilifeform: meanwhile in misc. heathen lulz.
thimbronion: *i have sent
billymg: thimbronion: so have i, but depends on who's receiving
signpost: I don't mind gays at all, but it having a curable origin in some folks would turn people inside out with rage.
billymg: thimbronion: i've you were wiring the money to yourself, or a lawyer, or real estate co, or whatever, then sure
thimbronion: billymg: none of the above lol
thimbronion: billymg: although the recipients likely earned more than a groundskeeper
billymg: thimbronion: right
mats: you could replace 'shitcoin trade' with dope trade, if you prefer
mats: traffickers need airplanes, fuel, vehicle registration, real corps, bank accounts, all things paid in fiat
thimbronion: billymg: I guess the lesson is use high income illiterate whores as mules where possible
mats: the risk is worth it
mats: whether it works depends on the logistics expert
billymg: thimbronion: lol
billymg: except what happens now that they passed the OnlyFans Thots Tax Bill? (all transactions through paypal/cashapp/venmo over $600 generate a 1099)
billymg: though i guess we're talking about girls outside the US in this case
thimbronion: billymg: hilariously the whores I know are terrified to put their faces online
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074363 << knew when I started hearing from family members about "crypto.com" it was toast.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 11:47:57 shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074360 <<< toppest of keks, especially in light of entire sports arena renaming itself as "crypto.com center" .....
shinohai: The "zomg no face" whores are all over reddit, never could work with 'em all braindamaged.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:31:58 signpost: I don't mind gays at all, but it having a curable origin in some folks would turn people inside out with rage.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-07-03 asciilifeform: 'oh noez they're holocausting us by curing deafness'
asciilifeform: would be a++lulzy
signpost: indeed, exactly same notion
signpost: and autists being caused by household toxic substances, and...
asciilifeform: signpost: the sheer amt of reich.sweat poured into misdirecting the searches for said $substances suggests there's a 'sumthing' to be found
asciilifeform: (simply, not found where either Official or Officially Dissident folx have looked )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-03 13:58:56 asciilifeform: punkman: 'martians'.
signpost has to credit his wife with much of the work that keeps his beard growing strong.
signpost: lady took mega-interest in this after hormonal birth control threw her for a loop.
asciilifeform: signpost: before had wife, bears was weak??
asciilifeform pictures signpost w/ 'rasputin' beard
signpost: bwhaha, I trim!
signpost: beard was a bit weaker, though was also younger. certainly feel less like shit!
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074507 << can still hop to real btc from these, and stablecoins, which work well enough at the next casino.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:18:33 billymg: mats: i still don't see how you get usable fiat out of binance, even with the scheme you described
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074543 << that's the hilarious thing, the 'trigger' can be just about anyffin (e.g. a cumulative 'sum of badness' per some seekrit formulaire)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:28:42 billymg: mats: also, i had experience with this a few weeks ago. i sent a small christmas bonus (about $500) to my groundskeeper. they froze his account until he explained where it came from. keep in mind this was from my local account to his, and we have a now year+ history of transactions between those accounts
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:19:12 mats: you trade shitcoins back for fiat
signpost: whole thing's a casino surrounded by mixers, with the expected amount of counterparty risk
signpost: traditional role for casinos really, as laundries.
asciilifeform: the 1 aspect common to all casinos is 'house wins'
mats: everyone but gold holders get to win this time
asciilifeform: 'erryone wins' is an arithmetic absurdity imho
signpost: mats: you don't think interest rates will demolish the everything-bubble as they rise?
mats: no
asciilifeform: (tho it is entirely possible for 'everyone' to ~think~ they're winning for almost indefinite interval. 'bezzle')
mats: i think the fed is trying to outsmart markets with forward guidance
mats: trick markets into doing the thing they want, without having to actually enact any policy
signpost: "hay they tightened less than we thought, buy!" kind of thing?
mats: they keep moving up the tightening and it keeps scaring the markets
mats: but i don't think it will last, and that they'll meaningfully raise rates (to 1.5-2% interest)
mats: but we'll see
billymg: mats: that was my thought as well. similar to "we're gonna mandate the vaccines, we're super cereal this time"
signpost nfi, holding bags that benefit with more brrrrrr, and cash to eat if they break the market.
mats: the mandate almost worked, but scotus
billymg: mats: they scuttle the things they know they can't pull off to save themselves the embarrassment of failing to pull them off
signpost: this invokes the dubious coherent, aligned "they"
asciilifeform not followed subj; what was it that happened to 'mandate' ?
signpost: asciilifeform: the folks handling biden tried to scoot through a mandate for large companies to require vaccinations.
asciilifeform: a, and then ?
billymg: scotus ruled it to be unconstitutional
asciilifeform recalls a noosepiece re mass sackings of nurses, subnurses, etc. in usa for 'unvaxism'
asciilifeform: billymg: didja read the ruling ? ( did it rule that the sacked are to be reinstated? would be surprising )
billymg: asciilifeform: did not. afaik no one was actually sacked for it at that point, only under threat of being sacked when the deadline arrived
billymg: could be wrong about that though
billymg: seemed exactly like this, at gov and employer level
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:57:52 mats: trick markets into doing the thing they want, without having to actually enact any policy
asciilifeform: ( reich has quite lengthy history of gluing a mandate (recall the 'gay cakes') via Official decreee; the latter gets repealed on some technicality, but the 'private' orgs continue enforcing the supposedly no longer mandatory gay cakes, 'affirmative action', etc etc)
thimbronion: billymg: some corps enforce it anyway
asciilifeform: 1st 'some', then 'all'
thimbronion: according to the ruling health facilities that take federal funding are required to enforce it
asciilifeform: recall the 1970s 'states dun have to enforce $item, but must if want to receive federal road funds' fastfwd to 'all states enforce $item, cuz 100% economically dependent on national roads'
mats: the healthcare worker pool is thin enough that they don't enforce the mandate in all places
signpost: iirc google's now threatening to fire
signpost: at least so-reported
asciilifeform: signpost: iirc gotta be a party member in good standing to slave there. and has been so for yrs
asciilifeform: stricter fascism at google than in usg per se
signpost has intimate knowledge of this fact, could not stand.
asciilifeform: signpost: did time there?
signpost: mmmmmhm
asciilifeform not, but knows folx who disappeared into the whale
asciilifeform: rare afaik that anyone comes out.
thimbronion: signpost: same, via an acquisition of an acquisition
signpost: the money is good, warps weak heads.
signpost: thimbronion: yeah, same
asciilifeform: the money seems ok if you can get it while living in east usa. otherwise disappears into rent
signpost met quite a lot of well-meaning, talented people, but the game they are forced to play wasn't worth spending a minute more of life on.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 14:07:56 mats: the healthcare worker pool is thin enough that they don't enforce the mandate in all places
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-31 23:35:28 asciilifeform: current usg proj is to ramp down their 'expects' to what is suppliable. e.g. mcd rather than baked bread.
signpost: thimbronion: I literally bought bitcoin and said fuck the rest of the vest, lol.
signpost: "we're square, bye"
thimbronion: signpost: good move
mats: lots of people just quit
mats: my local pharmacy used to be staffed by 19-35y/os, now there's like 3-5 ppl of the 20 they need
thimbronion: signpost: life is too short for that shit
mats: and the ones left are over 40
signpost: mats: hiring signs are everywhere in austin too.
asciilifeform: mats: where do you suppose the 'quit' went ?
mats: dunno, instagram?
mats: doordash
mats: student loan repayment deferment got pushed to may
mats: so some of those people will eventually come back, even if $15-18/h or whatever seems weak
signpost has heard a few amusing stories of folks that allahu-akbar'd into GME, doge, etc., and are using the winnings to take time off.
asciilifeform: iirc starvation-wage folx were already 'deferred' a while ago
mats: student loan payments represent like $7bn usd per mo
asciilifeform: iirc almost entirely from 'properly-employed' (i.e. desk-fliers) tho, rather than diploma'd cabbies
mats: there's a surplus of thinks-we-has-choices going on
asciilifeform curious 'by what powered' this surplus
asciilifeform: (and whether factually exists)
asciilifeform not personally l1 w/ any of these 'quitters', knows of'em purely from the occasional fishwrap piece
mats: stim checks, unemployment insurance, student loan payment deferment, lack of cafes and bars to go to
asciilifeform: and iguess mats's summaries
asciilifeform: last stim cheque was yr+ ago neh
mats: a lot of olds have also quit, so wages might keep going up to entice youngs back
mats: and some of those olds aren't coming bak
mats: it'll work itself out in the end
asciilifeform: errything 'works in the end' lol
signpost: as a complete non sequitor, this practice of gnu-shitwads using file mtime to decide whether to magically regenerate the autotools gnarl.
mats: lots of parents got free money for their kids
asciilifeform: (sun burns out in the end)
mats: there's a fair amount of excess savings that haven't been eaten yet
signpost: whole build toolchain is a revolting cumbox
asciilifeform: mats: that yes : for instance over9000folx still think they 'own a house'
asciilifeform: which'll go like in 1991 sovok
signpost: mats: I suspect leaching off parents is indeed a piece.
signpost: can confirm from own family
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-05-01 asciilifeform: basic course on russian privatization. 'your formerly state-issued flat is now yours. you are a millionaire!' - 'neato. but my salary hasn't been paid in a year. gotta buy something to eat. what does dinner cost?' - 'half a million.'
signpost: perhaps more common in cities, where we'd care about such stats more.
signpost: and in rural, cheaper to float along anyway.
asciilifeform: that leeching will be part of how the 'owned houses' collected, yes
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074678 << the alternative would be what, to hash errything? given the over9000files of a typical opensores liquishit, promises to be rather slow
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 14:20:06 signpost: as a complete non sequitor, this practice of gnu-shitwads using file mtime to decide whether to magically regenerate the autotools gnarl.
signpost: when I tell it, regenerate
asciilifeform: i can see why they use mtime
asciilifeform: signpost: a, it doesn't ? i.e. ignores ./configure --clean etc ?
signpost: much has been caked around gcc to handle all sorts of tools missing, platform-specific idiosyncracies, etc
asciilifeform: afaik whole thing consists almost entirely of this 'cake'
signpost: (obviously, of course)
signpost: yep.
asciilifeform: not clear just how much would even remain if removed.
signpost: perhaps tcc, lol
asciilifeform when younger thought 'hey, wainot minix w/ tcc'. then realized that is same exact 'sys-v' acorn from which the shit oak inevitably grew.
signpost: anyhow grunting through what differences may be in the dulap env.
signpost: indeed so
asciilifeform would still not refuse 'minix w/ tcc' if could be stood on 'opteron' and run x, emacs, sbcl, etc
signpost: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XnZ5 << shit like this has been the entirety of this project.
asciilifeform: loox quite typical yes
asciilifeform: bottomless well of interdependent liquishit
signpost: these "missing" scripts are particularly insidious, will "try" to deal with missing tooling, invariable failing.
signpost: each little gnu weakling caking "fixes" because he dare not tell the other weakling to change his instead.
asciilifeform: and in the process of said failing sucks in over9000 other fails etc
signpost fully understands that this was a virus for commercial software. and it reflects that.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-10-25 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
signpost: mighty entertaining actually that the GNU strategy was precisely "embrace, extend, extinguish" of its own kind.
asciilifeform: 'succeeded', too
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-01-15 asciilifeform: point was re rms. trouble with the man is, i dun think he is stupid, in the usual sense, he appears to quite deliberately think that cultivated fungus on ~coad~ is a valid defense against 'microshit will steal'. hence gcc, autoconf, other marvels.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-01-15 asciilifeform: prattled for 30 yrs re 'four freedoms', but forgot '-1st' -- 'to fit the thing in head'
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-01-15 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, not forgot, but explicitly rejected, i've nfi.
signpost: seems a symbiosis between someone who is first a politician, and hesitates to put down a strategy that empowered him (though waning in relevance these days), and the poetterings which jizz when they get such a rube goldberg to "work"
asciilifeform: symbiosis b/w quite a few things. incl. even the poor bastards ( asciilifeform et al ) who do need sumthing like a working comp, 'yesterday', and what's avail. is strictly this
asciilifeform recalls how, after the demise of the last 'unix workstations', the innocent went to buy crapples, because 'hey it's a supported commercial unix! where things work!'
asciilifeform: and how naodays getting an otherwise unremarkable piece of posixware to stand up on crappla feels 'accomplishment', rather like how 'stand up netbsd on shoebox with 2 dead squirrels' once did
asciilifeform: i.e. crapple's 'unix' was simply bait&switch, which had a purpose strictly for so long as was req'd to 1) kill 2) prevent the resurrection of -- the workstations
signpost: complete with badbits scans reporting home to the mothership.
asciilifeform: nao is the snake's legs, comin' right off
signpost: sad how that turned out. I don't expect steve would've done it, not that I'm a typical fanboy of his.
asciilifeform: (succeeded, largely)
asciilifeform finds interesting that the 'programmable' apple was justabout entirely a thing in the era of the gil amelio apple
asciilifeform: and nao barely remembered
asciilifeform: the crapple in asciilifeform torture room is still there. naodays used largely to run the printers...
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-29 21:23:57 asciilifeform: this printer is a veritable lulzgenerator in own right. pay 4fig for postscript printer (gold standard since '80s... right?) and get, i shit thee not, div-by-0 eggogs mid-way-through printing 100pg doc
asciilifeform: when it dies, not planning to buy anuther.
signpost had an old quadra he quite liked
signpost: hilariously, portland car thieves thought this worth dragging out of vehicle through the back window.
asciilifeform: was speaking of the '15 crapple, lol. the 1988 one i'ma keep
signpost: ah yeah
asciilifeform not sat ~that~ one on the lan; tho it ~does~ have a 10M eth jack, and the bolix stack ~can~ serve x11 over it. (for the obv reason)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-06 19:51:33 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've only 1 such machine, and for all i know at any given time it's on its final hour
asciilifeform: funny how that 'mac performa' ( esp. w/ ssd 'flies' compared to modern boxen
asciilifeform: or hm it's a 'quadra 650'
asciilifeform: w/ entire 80MB of ram ! ( not counting even what's on the bolix board )
signpost: yeah I believe that's the one liberated by bums, even.
signpost: I guess they had a macivory to put in it.
asciilifeform: afaik thieves steal 1st and figure out 'wassat' 2nd
signpost: they got an old NAS from, shit thee not, kernel.org too
asciilifeform had a phriend who was burgled and then found heap of his stolen books, thief at 1st thought they were dvd n-packs, then discarded
signpost: some dood was offloading them on portland craigslist
signpost: lol, useless, those
asciilifeform: at the time pawnshops took'em (nfi nao)
asciilifeform: dvd, that is, not b00x
asciilifeform on current street once heard neighbour knock: 'hey did they break your car?' ; looked, nope. turns out they broke into half dozen on street, stole the coins in the coin cups, left asciilifeform's alone
asciilifeform: cuz, one can only guess, no coins
shinohai: Well duh, asciilifeform keeps all his coinz in-betwixt the sofa cushions.
asciilifeform: where else.
shinohai: Well you can get creative with your pet's Kegel exercises and have her store $1.80 in dimes in her snatch.
asciilifeform: an' eject exact change, iirc is the state of the art
shinohai thinks this would also give buttcoin a new meaning .....
asciilifeform has rather diff 'training programme' than e.g. mp, featuring moar emphasis on e.g. emacs than operation as cash register..
signpost: that's more sadistic, you know?
signpost: (hue)
signpost: the "I'd challenge you but I suck" comment is hysterical.
verisimilitude: Alright. Prepare for my joke.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:53:23 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074777
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:53:23 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074777
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 21:53:14 dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:53:23 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074777
verisimilitude: Oh, it stops recursing.
verisimilitude: Well that's boring.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:54:15 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074784
verisimilitude: Whatever.
verisimilitude: Oh, I was mispredicting.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:56:18 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074789
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 21:56:13 dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:56:18 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074789
verisimilitude: No, it doesn't work after all.
verisimilitude: Either that, or I'm not properly setting up a recursive system; does dulapbot know of bitbot, unlike bitbot of dulapbot?
verisimilitude: It's still a flaw in bitbot.
verisimilitude: I'm similarly committed to never selling my Bitcoin holdings.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074448 I'm almost envious; none of my comments received any response.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 12:51:39 asciilifeform: meanwhile in misc. heathen lulz.
verisimilitude: I see I was improperly making my references, earlier; I wonder.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 21:56:13 dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:56:18 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074789
verisimilitude: I'll try once more.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:04:57 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074805
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:04:57 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074805
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:04:52 dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:04:57 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074805
verisimilitude: Well, it either won't work or I've repeatedly failed; I'll stop now.
verisimilitude: I notice bitbot has a different view than dulapbot, which is perhaps the cause of failure here.
verisimilitude: Offsetting the bitbot offset by three may make it work.
billymg: verisimilitude: yeah, bit bot missed 3 lines between these two messages when i adjusted the clock on my system
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 11:52:17 whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-11#1072415 <<-- when the miners decide to take the segwit coins trb will likely be the only type of node tracking the actual bitcoin chain.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 17:17:27 gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-10#1072225 << what were they trying to cover up? do you have any theories?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-10 15:41:07 asciilifeform: r. hess for instance sat incommunicado '45--'87, but near his 'suicide' did, supposedly, get a coupla letters out via a priest.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 16:48:57 pete_rizzo_: Thanks. This is interesting to me, as it gets to the questions I was interested in re: running a node. What is the advantage of running TRB (what does it do/not do as opposed to core) and how does it interact with the clients running core
billymg: need to fill those in manually in the db
billymg: verisimilitude: are you trying to cause an infinite loop between the two bots?
verisimilitude: Yes. My client lost power is why I've not yet done so.
verisimilitude: I've the math figured out.
billymg: well i guess if you're able to do that it'd be something worth patching
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
verisimilitude: Well, I can't kick either.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
verisimilitude: Oh my; how oh so amusing.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
verisimilitude: I'm proud of myself.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
shinohai: top kek
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
jonsykkel: a productive day
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
billymg: LOL
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
billymg: ok, turning off bitbot, one sec...
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:18:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074823
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:18:27 verisimilitude: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074821
verisimilitude: There's no need to thank me; this was its own reward.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-18 16:34:51 whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1074009 <-- ty for the link, didn't see the previous one, ty also asciilifeform, looks awesome
billymg: asciilifeform: regarding patch, the bot's config already contains a list of other bots, perhaps just prevent it from echoing log lines if it comes from a bot?
asciilifeform: oughta be in there already, looking nao
verisimilitude: Yes, that's one way to do it.
verisimilitude: A cycle detector would also work.
asciilifeform: apparently not. was in phf's , and asciilifeform fughot to put in current item
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's bot.py dun look at 'bots' ln in config at all, seems
asciilifeform: (only reader.py does)
asciilifeform promises to fix shortly, unless billymg gets there 1st
asciilifeform: surprised that not 'naturally' occurred prior, had to be prodded
asciilifeform: ( want here or wherever that corresponds to in the current item )
asciilifeform: ty verisimilitude
verisimilitude: It was fun.
asciilifeform: hm wai didn't it work at 1st stab tho
asciilifeform still reading upstack.
verisimilitude: I'll explain.
billymg: asciilifeform: off by three
verisimilitude: I noticed bitbot and dulapbot have different views of the conversation codes.
verisimilitude: It didn't naturally occur, because it needs a future reference.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 17:14:21 billymg: verisimilitude: yeah, bit bot missed 3 lines between these two messages when i adjusted the clock on my system
asciilifeform: makes sense
verisimilitude: I saw them interact yesterday, and my first thought was ``I can build a cycle from such an interaction.''.
asciilifeform recalls when same thing in ye olde #b-a
asciilifeform: was fixed the obv way
asciilifeform: this was long prior to asciilifeform's logotron tho
verisimilitude: Let this be a warning: One bot is fine, but two may try to stage an uprising.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074796 << it's bug in both, iirc bitbot is virtually identical
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:59:31 verisimilitude: It's still a flaw in bitbot.
verisimilitude: No, that's from when I'd given up, but still wanted to be snide.
verisimilitude: I was determined to point out some flaw.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: there's prolly over9000 bugs in logotron, lol (possibly none as spectacular, but can't guarantee)
asciilifeform: it was meant, lol, to be 'temporary' item
asciilifeform: (i.e. to use for coupla wks maybe)
asciilifeform: nao goin' on 3y..
asciilifeform: !q uptime
dulapbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 217d 18h 47m
verisimilitude: My Gopher server is the same way.
asciilifeform: ^ just the current process, lol
verisimilitude: I wanted a Gopher server in Ada by now.
asciilifeform wanted atomic dirigible by nao!11
verisimilitude: I think my desire is a bit simpler.
verisimilitude: My copy of the Oxford Latin Dictionary (OLD) arrived in the mail today. I'm pleased with it so far, after checking a few entries.
verisimilitude: It should be nice, considering it was nearly five hundred dollars.
asciilifeform has over9000 unfinished softs, purely on acct of ~0 time
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-09 13:33:02 asciilifeform: cgra: how complete per se, i.e. right nao? -- ch21c ( the coad , for extended-euclidean ) is done ; and also extensive revision of the peh interpreter (in particular, properly constant-time i/o of FZ)
verisimilitude: Five hundred dollars is worthless to me, however, whereas this dictionary pleases me.
verisimilitude: Yes, we're very alike in this respect, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: I don't believe we were separated at birth, but still.
asciilifeform: hm i thought verisimilitude was innocent of the salt mines, had time
verisimilitude: Rephrase that.
verisimilitude: The final two words befuddle me.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-07 18:29:19 PeterL: Если не ты управляешь своим временем, то твоим временем управляет
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-07 19:21:20 asciilifeform: PeterL: 'if you are not in control of your time, then someone else is'
verisimilitude: I control my time.
asciilifeform: then how verisimilitude's unfinishes softs 'alike' to asciilifeform's..?
verisimilitude: I just meant we both have a lot of unfinished work we want to get done.
verisimilitude: The pain of getting a machine to do anything useful is infuriating.
verisimilitude: I've not yet had the opportunity to tell others ``I agree with an acquaintance of mine, in how only the mentally ill or other deranged could want to program computers, with how awful it is.''.
verisimilitude: Just sending a network packet is so difficult.
verisimilitude: It would be as if my toilet required a ladder to use, because it was placed so high in the room.
verisimilitude: ``I want a low toilet. LOL who wants that?''
asciilifeform: closer to 'req's a jetpack to use, being locate on everest'
asciilifeform: *located
verisimilitude: It's enough to make me feel homicidal.
asciilifeform: '... because they were developing Unix and the C compiler. it's appropriate to make a machine print "hello world" to verify that everything works after all the mind-boggling nonsense has interfered with the real purpose of a computer, and you never know which part of booting up will fail due to a minor bug. the delight in a C programmer's eyes when his machine thus booted typed "hello world" back at him would probabl
asciilifeform: y parallel that of a Common Lisp programmer when the satellite communications subsystem he designed beams back "hello world" after an almost-aborted launch, a navigation jet which misfired, and the solar panels sustained some damage by space debris. normally, it's unnecessary to have confirmations of basic operations, but it makes perfect sense under C.'
verisimilitude: So often, I use Emacs view-lossage to see something, yet my whole system lacks this.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074774 << the sorta thing that comes outaa such folx, one can laff todeath
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 16:37:06 signpost: the "I'd challenge you but I suck" comment is hysterical.
asciilifeform: 'he'll xerox you his fist!'(tm)(r)(some ro poem mp translated iirc)
shinohai: $uptime
busybot: The bot has been up for: 47 days 9 hours 19 minutes and 53 seconds
jonsykkel: section 4.3.1 step 9 is wrong imo, as long baffer only contains last hours worth of messages
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: last hr searched
asciilifeform: wai wrong ?
jonsykkel: well if i send a msg every 2h, it will do getdata chain bak to beginning of time on every msg
asciilifeform: gotta draw the line somewhere. if a hanging selfchain can make yer noad search GBs of log, it's a ddos vector (avail. to yer pestnet)
asciilifeform: ideally oughta store 'last hr or N , which is greater' as in 1st spec draft
asciilifeform will amend in 0xfa
asciilifeform taking suggestions for default val of N. prolly oughta be a knob.
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: it won't 'to begining of time' tho, will simply say 'chain break'
asciilifeform found buncha gaffes in 0xfb, mainly broken links, but also various early sections need massage in light of later material
jonsykkel: then it will say "chain break" on every msg where prev was older than 1h or so, cuz no longer in buffer. if follow that recipe autistically anyway
jonsykkel: imo need something like: 1. check if fits end of chain stored for peer P, if yes its a valid continuation, done 2. check if fits anywhere else in chain, if yes its a fork, done 3. now can be determined that have break in chain, put in order buffer
asciilifeform: for selfchain yes
asciilifeform: btw the 'netchain not used' in 3.2.3.1 is obv. a lie, it's to be used for ordering
asciilifeform: the chains thing defo needs massage, e.g. 3.2.2.1 not touched since coupla rev. ago
asciilifeform not even had chance to mend all the inevitable broken links from shoving sections around in idjit 'markdown'
asciilifeform must bbl
jonsykkel: "if a hanging selfchain can make yer noad search GBs of log" << not a problem imo if store corectly as hash table on disk
jonsykkel: if idjit inside net making u assrape io by spamming old msgs is unpeer time anyway
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: well 'inside net' i.e. l2
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: would have to gag, rather than unpeer, if not in l1
asciilifeform: ( l2 .. l_cut technically )
jonsykkel: true
asciilifeform: a pestnet e.g. 5 deep (as current rec'd cut) would get expensive even if no one is deliberately pissing in it, if had to search 'all time' log whenever hanging chain
jonsykkel: or actually depends if store chains for >=l2
asciilifeform: hence asciilifeform's current notion
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 20:06:17 asciilifeform: ideally oughta store 'last hr or N , which is greater' as in 1st spec draft
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: gotta store chains for all speakers seen on pestnet, or chains aint very useful
asciilifeform: (the msgs from ~peers~ are already known to be authentic)
asciilifeform: chains to begin with were asciilifeform's notion of how to give ~some~ measure of authenticity for l2+ hearsays
jonsykkel: pestron is supposed to keep track of breaks/fork for nonpeers?
asciilifeform: indeed, per all vers of spec to date
jonsykkel: was not obv to me anyway
asciilifeform: prolly oughta make it more explicit in spec
asciilifeform: but yes, the orig. purpose of selfchain is to indicate if >1 station is trying to originate as 1 speaker
asciilifeform: (on a given pestnet)
asciilifeform: when someone does this, the 'genuine' $speaker's selfchain will skip the impostor's msg, and you have the 'split'
asciilifeform: after which, can distinguish the chains of $genuine and $impostor-1, $impostor-2, ... $impostor_n
asciilifeform: if $genuine is a peer, you can autoresolve the fork and simply throw out the rest
asciilifeform: if he aint, you nao have console displaying e.g. asciilifeform-1: ... asciilifeform-2: i eat bugs asciilifeform-1: hey jonsykkel see PM and then hit /RESOLVE asciilifeform after satisfied that the frauds have gone off and the last msg is from genuine speaker
asciilifeform: in most cases, the ~first~ station to speak as $speaker on a net oughta be considered the 'rightful' user of $speaker handle
asciilifeform can think of exceptions, but this aint partic. relevant to spec, folx oughta decide for selves when to resolve fork
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: lemme know whether makes sense to you.
jonsykkel: ok gotta think first
asciilifeform: this was prolly the 1 original idea in pest, come to think of it
asciilifeform: errything else is moar or less obv.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-11 13:07:23 asciilifeform: now's prolly a good time to share detail from asciilifeform's p2ptron scheme. each message contains, in addition to payload and speaker's handle, two hashes : "selfhash" -- hash of previous message spoken by him; and "nethash" -- hash of previous message seen by him (these can be identical , when two or more msgs sent in quick succession)
asciilifeform: ^ where introduced this.
asciilifeform: the desired condition is that all speakers on a given pestnet must use distinct handles.
asciilifeform was only able to come up w/ 1 algo, the 1 given above, for enforcing this while still permitting hearsay.
asciilifeform: if someone can think of a better one -- plox to write in.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1075128 << to be concrete, can auto-resolve ~once you get an immediate msg from the peer~ and not otherwise
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:06:08 asciilifeform: if $genuine is a peer, you can autoresolve the fork and simply throw out the rest
jonsykkel: figured
jonsykkel: ill read orig thread
asciilifeform: the algo not substantially changed since that thrd
asciilifeform can't guarantee that it's the only possib. one, but imho likely
asciilifeform: the 1 and only thing the $impostor can't do, is to get $original to selfchain the $impostor's spew as his own
asciilifeform: so that's what we detect. i.e. 'split'
asciilifeform: otherwise, in cases where $original is not a direct peer of yours, you have no means to distinguish
jonsykkel: indeed
asciilifeform: factually you could autoresolve forks by simply insisting that the earliest seen contig. chain is the genuine speaker's
asciilifeform: in practice this requires 100% uptime. tho w/ 'getdata' can get pretty close to same effect
asciilifeform: problem is, 'getdata' aint guaranteed to fully seal a gap in deterministic time
jonsykkel: you cant do that if itis an actual fork rather than break in chain tho?
asciilifeform: you can do it if all yer chains are contiguous atm to 'beginning of time'
asciilifeform: but this aint always guaranteed to be the case
asciilifeform: (say you lost yer log somehow)
jonsykkel: nonpeer1 chain: a-b-c-d, nonpeer2 chain: a-b-c-q
jonsykkel: same chain forked at d/q
asciilifeform: where's q though
jonsykkel: 2 diffrent continuations from presumably 2 diff nonpeers
jonsykkel: this is case where someone trying to impersonate someone, i guess simpler case is when forked at genesis point
jonsykkel: like a-b-c and q-p-r from same speker (both a and q pointing back to 0), in that case indeed can autoresolve favoring oldest one
asciilifeform: it is indeed the case that you couldn't autoresolve until 1 fork or the other is longer
asciilifeform: (or could you)
asciilifeform: thinking about it, you can autoresolve as soon as a msg is 'skipped' by 1 of the chains
asciilifeform: actually you still can't -- the impostor in fact can be the 1st to 'skip' the original's
asciilifeform digs through notes, in fact thought of this, and hence wai forks are not autoresolved
jonsykkel: as far as can tell theres 2 distinct cases http://zzz.st/up/hU65ceAM
asciilifeform: remember, impostor is not stuck following the algo in spec for generating the chain hashes, can insert whatever he wants
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: what does 0 refer to there ?
jonsykkel: nothing, jsut means next message has slefchain=000000
jonsykkel: so "a" msg is first ever originated
asciilifeform: you still know whether you saw a or q 1st tho
asciilifeform: cuz you've a clock
jonsykkel: case 1 can occur either cuz evil guy trying to impersonate, or cuz normal guy lost his data and restored old bakup
jonsykkel: in case 1 or 2 u mean?
asciilifeform: if it's a lost backup, tho, there won't be a d in case1
jonsykkel: yep, there can autoresolve if decide oldest = validest
jonsykkel: there will be if sent d msg after backing up
jonsykkel: then comp crash and restore to state where c was last msg
asciilifeform: if you lost backup, incidentally, oughta mechanically set yer selfchain via getdata to yer handle's most recent (public) msg's hash
asciilifeform: (naturally impostor can do similarly)
jonsykkel: i guess ye
asciilifeform: neither the chain hashes nor the messages in this case are seekrit
asciilifeform: so , if dr.evil boots up a fresh station and 'restore(asciilifeform)' (hypothetical command for this), you get scenario 1
asciilifeform: the folx who l1 peers of asciilifeform , don't even need to see the forkolade (and won't rebroadcast it)
jonsykkel: fuck p comes before q in alfabet
asciilifeform: ( btw, the reason why not, is 'prod' )
asciilifeform: i.e. if you get a hearsay where ' asciilifeform : i eat bugs ' but then a prod from asciilifeform where selfchain aint h('i eat bugs') you know the hearsay is on a bogofork
asciilifeform: 'prod' ftr introduced in 0xfb.
asciilifeform: prolly does need a subsection in 4 tho
jonsykkel: probably, i think are some (unlikely) exeptions to that. if many pakets dropped
asciilifeform: the chains become the operative mechanism , however, when yer getting l2+ hearsays with identical speaker
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: indeed. also needs thought
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's original supposition btw was that the ~ultimately longest~ chain will represent genuine speaker.
asciilifeform: chains aint a pill against 'dr.evil shot the actual asciilifeform and stood up a station to speak as asciilifeform' from pov of asciilifeform's l2
asciilifeform: they're a pill against ~indistinguishability~ of colliding speakers.
jonsykkel: true
asciilifeform: i.e. yer station oughta know ~that~ 2+ pestnet inhabitants are colliding handles.
asciilifeform: and to know when only 1 has remained.
asciilifeform: then you can hit 'resolve', if satisfied that the bogospeaker has departed.
jonsykkel: indeed, gotta add nick-1-2 stuff to my impl.
asciilifeform: iirc blatta currently ignores chains
asciilifeform: they're part of the spec for a reason tho. and gotta be baked eventually
asciilifeform: atm there aint much in the way of anyone having an 'l2' much 'l3', except by happenstance when various peerings didn't work
asciilifeform: on a moar populated net tho, you'll want the chain mechanisms to work.
asciilifeform must bbl
jonsykkel: breaks/forks handling is trickyest stuff imo by far, all kinda difrent cases, multiple breaks fusing togheter, breaks turning into forks, forks within breaks etc etc
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