Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-04-03 | 2022-04-05 →
crtdaydreams: also wondering if worth getting 8K variant over 5K
crtdaydreams is inclined to believe moar LUTs == better, but may be very wrong
vex: whats a LUT?
vex: lunch unified time?
vex: get back to work
vex: phf, rolling a blue thru the streets, helps to have a pocket plinker
vex: might need to end a pit
vex: blue don't stop
vex: knife works too, but you gotta jump the fence
vex: they appreciate the teamwork
PeterL: My brother-in-law had a couple australian cattle dogs as a teenager, he said they would routinely catch and kill skunks, never got sprayed because they worked together as a team and were so viscious and killed it so fast
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-03 22:17:00 phf: i want an australian cattle dog
asciilifeform: << for n00bs, asciilifeform recs 'icestick', has built-in programmator. moar than sufficient for study, get bigger ones once you've 'graduated'.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-03 23:51:43 crtdaydreams: asciilifeform: been browsing ice40 chips, so far the selection of boards seems to boil down to tinyfpga-bx, fomu and the classic icebreaker. Just wondering what you have and whether or not you think GPIO would be worth it if just learning FPGA?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 00:05:21 vex: whats a LUT?
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $46175.9
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.094s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=730404
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=730404
watchglass: : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=730404 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.261s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : Alive: (0.275s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.345s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.384s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730184
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.599s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : Alive: (0.431s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730404
watchglass: : Alive: (0.508s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=417864 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: hm typo, s/[3]// but harmless
asciilifeform: ... and currently no plan to burn any in q1 2022.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-18 11:28:20 asciilifeform: ... problem is, is very difficult to increase the amt of useful work with coin (aside from, hypothetically, jailbreaking ~people~, ideally 2-3 people. but piggy -- or 'sandwich-adjusted' exchrate -- would have to be ~10x bigger to make this plausible)
asciilifeform: err, q2
asciilifeform: !q seen cgra
dulapbot: cgra last seen here on 2022-02-28 12:26:43: << close enough to ponder whether finland's next, or what was going on again
asciilifeform: !q seen punkman
dulapbot: punkman last seen here on 2022-01-27 09:39:41: I mean "bug"
asciilifeform: !q seen mod6
dulapbot: mod6 last seen here on 2022-01-09 16:47:21: < asciilifeform> << you may've been the 1st to actually test that knob << sure, ditto the same with whaack's nick.
asciilifeform: !q seen whaack
dulapbot: whaack last seen here on 2022-03-31 10:41:00: asciilifeform: the irc interface means it can be integrated with pest so that upload is limited to pest peers
asciilifeform: !q seen BingoBoingo
dulapbot: BingoBoingo last seen here on 2022-02-28 12:49:43: In the past month US down ~19% versus Brasil's Real, 5.3% versus Peso Uruguay
asciilifeform oughta comment re this oddity -- asciilifeform rather skeptical re 'this took two weeks in order to sync the blockchain', given asciilifeform's 'cement' test on 'threadripper', and largely from local noad having taken ~40d.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-29 19:56:24 thimbronion: this guy never heard of trb I guess:
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 09:57:33 asciilifeform: meanwhile, cement testbed synced !
asciilifeform: thimbronion: see if you can get that fella to visit, if you've the cycles
whaack: looks like my node in NZ is taking quite a longer time to sync
asciilifeform: whaack: this w/ cement ?
whaack: yes
whaack: !w probe
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.645s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=730436
asciilifeform: would be interesting to see debug log
whaack: !c peers
crawlerbot: whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, help, net-summary, version, trb-status
asciilifeform: hm loox synced ?
whaack: !w probe
watchglass: : Alive: (0.526s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=418432
whaack: asciilifeform: probed wrong node, saw '103.' and thought it was mine
asciilifeform: loox to be most of the way through the cement
asciilifeform satisfied in his test that 'waiting for block' time reduced, as one'd expect, to ~0 when cemented
whaack: asciilfeform: well blocks 1-200k have always taken only 1-2 days for me, the gears start grinding at around 350k
whaack: !c trb-status
crawlerbot: (Could not connect!), h=730432, v=99999, United States - peers: 222 - last probed: 7m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, Singapore - peers: 74 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, Canada - peers: 63 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=88888, France - peers: 60 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=70001, United States - peers: 54 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, United States - peers: 49 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730184, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 31 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, United States - peers: 27 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, United States - peers: 27 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, Romania - peers: 26 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, United States - peers: 15 - last probed: 11m ago
asciilifeform: cement won't help w/ db grind in verification; only cuts down the time when 'sitting w/ open mouth'
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, United States - peers: 11 - last probed: 12m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=730436, v=99999, United States - peers: 10 - last probed: 11m ago
crawlerbot: (Alive), h=418424, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: None - last probed: 7m ago
whaack: billymg: did you manually add my node or did it get picked up by your crawlerbot automatically? I still have no peers for some reason
billymg: whaack: got picked up automatically
whaack: cool, weird it took so long and weird i have No peers, i wonder if somehow that is slowing down my sync, or if it's just normal verification grind
billymg: whaack: for the longest time no other nodes were returning it as a peer (which is currently the only way the crawler can discover a new node). i noticed yesterday that it was finally found and queried to see who had reported it
bitbot: Logged on 2022-04-03 22:47:30 billymg: results from db of nodes returning it as one of their peers: (previously this query returned 0)
billymg: did you ever restart with a series of -addnode flags?
billymg: btw, still a WIP but i've got an updated version of the crawler www running here now:
billymg: mostly just a facelift, but is also responsive now, and displays the time series data. color scheme is auto based on your OS preference (e.g. "dark mode")
asciilifeform: billymg: nifty graphic (tho a bit hard to read on asciilifeform's screen, low contrast imho)
billymg: asciilifeform: i'll add a toggle for the old color scheme, currently only set via OS knob
asciilifeform: billymg: also only seeing 2 lines on the 'participating species' graph rather than 3
billymg: there are three, but due to the scale trb's 14 and trb-compat's ~40 nodes don't represent much against prb's 4k
billymg: both just flat lines along the bottom
asciilifeform: not very useful graph imho then
billymg: it will be once trb nodes go up by two orders of magnitude
billymg: currently, yes, displays the sad state of affairs
billymg: if anyone has suggestions for other network metric's they'd like to see charted lemme know, i'd like to add more
billymg: metrics*
whaack: billymg: no i never restarted the node, may do so soon.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-04 15:41:33 asciilifeform: worth noting, there's ftr 4 basic levels of 'great firewall' :
asciilifeform: 'The Bureau of Cyberspace and Digital Policy leads and coordinates the Department’s work on cyberspace and digital diplomacy to encourage responsible state behavior in cyberspace and advance policies that protect the integrity and security of the infrastructure of the Internet, serve U.S. interests, promote competitiveness, and uphold democratic values...'
verisimilitude: My favourite example of ``democratic values'' are the laws which prohibit boycotting Israel to varying degrees.
verisimilitude: Copyright ghettos also come to mind as another shining example of freedom.
verisimilitude: These articles tell me naught, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: It's amazing how useful command record and playback is. I was unable to automate something in Emacs lately, but still turned it into a one-key command through a keyboard macro.
verisimilitude: I find it hard to believe these corporations aren't simply incredibly wasteful with their hardware.
dulapbot: Logged on 2019-12-23 23:18:06 asciilifeform: rather like how the web software stack eats megawatts and gives ui response times folx on the slowest 1970s timesharing systems would have barfed at
verisimilitude: As figured.
verisimilitude: Meanwhile, the limp-wristed faggots complain about Bitcoin instead.
asciilifeform: << what's it even export, other than expensive in-patent pharma & similarly expensive small arms ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 17:03:08 verisimilitude: My favourite example of ``democratic values'' are the laws which prohibit boycotting Israel to varying degrees.
asciilifeform paging adlai
verisimilitude: There's a soda machine, and like items.
verisimilitude: It's the principle that matters.
asciilifeform: rright but difficult to boycott if already not buying, lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 18:39:15 verisimilitude: Meanwhile, the limp-wristed faggots complain about Bitcoin instead.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-28 11:53:09 asciilifeform: << establishment mouthpieces always follow, if not explicitly state, mussolini's 'for us and ours -- everything; for others -- the law'. recall for instance the 'lisp is slow'(tm) folx who carefully set up discussion so that unix load time not counted, but cl runtime's -- is, or pretend that year is 1960
asciilifeform: e.g. no whines re 'ecological cost' of arsebook, the various reddits,, feeding entire continents of fucktards who produce 0 and would be missed nowhere if were sent to /dev/null tonight, etc
verisimilitude: Well gee, I wouldn't mind being on the other side of Mussolini.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: all modern-day 'law' worx exactly like mussolini's
verisimilitude: I figured a nation dealing with illegal immigration could deal with it by, say, removing from them the lawful protections citizens receive.
verisimilitude: They could have the jobs citizens won't do, like starring in snuff films.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: observe, exact opposite happens
verisimilitude: Yes, because my rulers aren't like me.
asciilifeform: in eureich, particularly spectacular, e.g. gypsies (formerly) or 'refugees' ('17--present) take over a house, owner has 0 Official recourse
verisimilitude: I don't see Israel having problems like this, and they get to have DNA tests for citizenship as well.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: they have diff. problems
asciilifeform: ( incl., if you like, over9000 citizens who wouldn't pass whatever dna test )
verisimilitude: Sure, but white people are nazis when they do it.
adlai is away: response times vary
adlai: idle: 4 days, 00 hours 22 minutes 29 seconds
adlai: asciilifeform: sup
asciilifeform: wb adlai
verisimilitude: Hello, adlai.
adlai glances at scrollback;,. am expected to opine each time my fiat locality is boycotted?
asciilifeform: adlai: what's it export naodays ?
adlai: fwiw, there is a whole science of "how to be a BDS member, without actually harming Israel financially"
adlai: it boils down to tell everybody about BDS, veganism, and archlinux, before somebody else does.
verisimilitude: Expand BDS.
asciilifeform: bondage,discipline,sadomasochism?
verisimilitude: We're not discussing Ada programming.
adlai: verisimilitude: /medgaf about the acronym, tbh! tl;dr: it's an organisation that boycotts Israeli exports, to harm the zionist government so long as there is an apartheid state.
adlai: e.g., Roger Waters wanted to perform in Israel; then it turned out that folks connected to this organisation got angry, except the tour was already booked, and Roger Waters didn't want to cancel the show and spend two hours lecturing about politics instead of performing
adlai: ... so they moved the location a few clicks away from the center of hi-tech zionism, and pretended the state of israel didn't exist! profit for everybody. probably even paid fewer rents on the equipment.
adlai: my impression of Israeli exports is probably outdated, since I've not warmed chairs in tech park for a while.
adlai: back when I did, it boiled down to: military hardware, to close allies (e.g. India); veterans, unofficially (i.e., expatriates, funded through tourism exchanges); and software-as-a-service of any and everything possible to internetize.
adlai never explored the military world beyond small arms, fwiw!
adlai: pretty much had zero contact with artillery after discharge from the mandatory service.
adlai: some folks live in the revolving door, and do nothing other than interferometry and haggling over huge tracts of empty desert for the purposes of testing one thing... and other people pretty much just leave.
adlai: fwiw, pretty much only time anyone ever dangled "problem of too much money" in exchange for "pretend you're a grantwriter", I got silently laughed out of the negotiation for my ideas being too similar to military tech.
adlai: turns out everybody in town is a pacifist!
adlai: << in identical topics... I hope I don't have to quote Babbage, because I understand why such dismissal gets expressed.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-02 02:23:14 mats: bio or chem warfare is pretty dumb unless you're going to fight in cities, in which case, arty is cheaper
adlai: e.g., 2022-04-02 was quite a quiet day, other than "bio or chem warfare is [useless; artillery better]"
adlai: ... yet the point of unconventional warfare is typically not homogenous across all three components of NBC.
adlai: anyway, ain't gonna talk to myself by keyboard, so long as it costs electricity.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-01 13:05:07 phf: as far as history, east coast is really weird. there's a lot of usg developed "points of interests" with little plaques in english, chinese and braille. on the other hand the area where i live has churches built in 17xx, my friend's house is early 18th century, but it's all just there, not particularly historically preserved
adlai: [... as opposed to "only in New England"]
adlai does share nostalgia for the northern east coast; however, also quite suspicious that returning the adult adlai there will result in the typical "strange, place seems to have shrunk and gone lame" response.
billymg: asciilifeform: added theme switch knob to footer, it sets a cookie
signpost: adlai: imho new england's still plenty worthwhile.
signpost: boston's only grown, and many of the towns in its orbit are still worthwhile.
adlai: maybe if I get a righteous dose of the latest flu, I'll hallucinate the smell of New England autumn again.
signpost: not bad as far as hallucinations go
signpost: you spent time there?
adlai: so far the worst symptoms I've had were indistinguishable from regular "tell people I'm sick and let them figure out whether I'm euphemising".
adlai: yeah, I spent quite a while in NE.
signpost had the chest zaps subside.
signpost: ah, cool
adlai: possibly a majority of my running, even if you include exercising during military service afterwards.
adlai ran 'cross country', in boarding school, in new england.
adlai: so plenty of dead leaves
adlai can't recall whether signpost hails from tx originally?
adlai: fwiw, one -- and possibly only! -- time I encountered a texan irl, I asked the texan to sketch an outline of texas.
adlai: result -- and admirably, there was a result, as opposed to "fuck off, I can't draw to save my life" -- was recognizeably neither utah nor montana.
signpost: the funny thing is that texas is more a loose confederacy of city states than a whole.
adlai was inspired by "french schoolchildren learn to draw a hexagon before they learn to condescend at english speakers"
signpost lived here from early childhood, bounced around a few places prior
adlai: my suspicion re:NE is that living there as an adult will be much less insulated than boarding in a dormitory as a teenager.
adlai: e.g., nobody ever asked me if I was born in New England, outside of campus; and I doubt anyone asked me whether I was Jewish, with approximately one barbershop's worth of exceptions.
signpost: there are even pot shops now.
signpost: anyway, had no idea adlai spent time stateside
adlai: what, ya don't remember recurring "why are you attending scammer conferences in USGistan, adlai?" threads?
adlai: maybe those don't count as 'stateside';.. similar to getting passport stamped without exiting airport.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-11-08 adlai: i've yet to witness a student getting thrown out of a lecture at TAU (was done reasonably often by certain teachers at exeter), although - they often basically tell students to shut up and ask questions privately afterwards
signpost: the limits of my memory are not held as an example, lol
adlai: well asciilifeform does run NSA, so this is not surprising!
signpost also had several beers this afternoon with his other favorite j00
adlai: could be interesting to apply advice given to IDF cadets, to the east coast of the USA.
signpost: which?
adlai: "go directly to one end of the nation; then, bus crawl to the other; if you still love your country, be glad you are serving it."
adlai: in israel, this exercise takes approximately two days.
adlai: slightly longer on greyhounds, obviously.
signpost is definitely setting off in an airstream to test this hypothesis in the next few years.
adlai: the whole point is being at ground level the entire time!
adlai: even if you don't disbark to visit each place with its own zip code, you look out of windows at the same height as the post office.
signpost: the land currently occupied by the criminals in DC is often breathtakingly beautiful.
signpost imagines this is so for most occupied countries on earth.
signpost: otherwise why the hell did anyone stop there.
adlai: by 'airstream', do you refer to a specific model of bus or plane or thing?
adlai might have missed a reference here
signpost: they're a brand of aluminum camper trailer.
adlai: as for the location of the federal government, my impression was always that it was simply "what is median of ex-colonial coastline", rather than "walking distance from most beautiful plantation"
adlai: aha
adlai: that is probably a better way to visit america.
signpost: life permitting, would love to do the same in yurp
adlai has not encountered as much of a trailer culture in Israel, although there are trailers! simply, fewer people who live in them permanently, and fewer campgrounds, because... smaller total population.
signpost: right, it's a highway culture thing, I imagine.
signpost: new alliance with the arabs against iran eh? I imagine I'll be able to bum around the desert in what, 15-20yrs?
signpost: on either side, lol.
signpost would like to travel there too, if his empire hadn't preceeded him.
adlai still hopes that some sorta "eastasia has always been united against the martian/venusian/bugger invasion" will emerge
adlai: er, east, west, eur... you get the idea.
adlai: supposedly there was practical hope for "peace in the middle east!!!!!!" back when the cold war was still fresh and tepid.
adlai was not alive back then, only gossips.
adlai: tbh, if you have an american passport, and no other citizenship, you still can sanely visit Iran.
adlai: whenever I ask folks who specialise in this kind of adventure, about my case, they tell me that I can also sanely visit Iran, I'll simply have to get better at lying than telling the truth!
adlai: those folks have strange ideas of what sanity means.
adlai: the hip Israeli thing these days is to visit arabian gulf states, rather than persia.
adlai suspects he lacks the venture cheesiness connections to do this 'without army'.
adlai: i.e., I wouldn't get kidnapped, or anything so exciting... my visit would simply be more similar to visiting the USA for a bitcoin conference, on my own dime, than anything else.
adlai: in fact it would probably be quite similar to alf's visit to ro!
adlai: "I wish I could stay, without it costing me one bitcoin per week"
signpost: fine people and beautiful earth to be found in every place with an idiot's imaginary line drawn around.
signpost must bbl
adlai: ttyl!
adlai: asciilifeform: didja visit romania before starting to declare that the only thing less useful than bitcoin is the united states lollar?
adlai only recalls alf's commentaries about visiting romania for one of MP's conferences, well after "Bitcoin, by popular demand"
adlai: << ... wait a moment, where's the "not necessarily in that order" ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 16:54:42 asciilifeform: 'The Bureau of Cyberspace and Digital Policy leads and coordinates the Department’s work on cyberspace and digital diplomacy to encourage responsible state behavior in cyberspace and advance policies that protect the integrity and security of the infrastructure of the Internet, serve U.S. interests, promote competitiveness, and uphold democratic values...'
adlai: if I am constitutional literalisting this correctly, this bureau must immediately be reported to whatever house handles Un-American Activities.
adlai has not heard of "DNA tests for citizenship" before, although the imaginary line is not far from this.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 21:53:44 adlai: asciilifeform: didja visit romania before starting to declare that the only thing less useful than bitcoin is the united states lollar?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 18:56:13 verisimilitude: I don't see Israel having problems like this, and they get to have DNA tests for citizenship as well.
adlai: my understanding of the whole "prove you are Jewish, and you don't have to wait in line, outside the embassy, in another country, indefinitely" policy is that it's much more similar to "does another jew consider you a jew" than "please spit in dish and wait 15 minutes"
adlai never needed to prove this kind of hypothesis
adlai: Israel has plenty of non-jewish immigration, thanks to refugee situations; the pragmatic coping method employed by the government is to subsidize discharged soldiers working in jobs popular with refugees, to discourage refugees from remaining.
asciilifeform commented at length re '17 one, and summarized here
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-29 22:04:36 asciilifeform: was never happier anywhere than in '17 in ro, but only brought enuff green for 2wks and after that had to go back to where one gets more
adlai: e.g., "you guarded empty land for three years? ok, keep guarding, except now farmer hates you if you fall asleep."
adlai: one if not the greatest of my innumerous mistakes was not getting such a job; subsidies only last for less than a year, after which, immigrants and refugees are preferred by the employers!
adlai: "why hire white boy, he will leave the moment he gets a better offer anywhere else"
adlai has also heard this logic cited as reason for demanding high salary in job interviews; "... if you demand a low salary, they don't knot what your competitors might bid"
adlai: s/your/their/
adlai oughtta begin counting keystrokes, without discrimination
adlai: so far, I only tell myself to do this when using the typewriter. why!?
asciilifeform: << wasn't it ( sitting right here in usa actually costs asciilifeform considerably moar per diem )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 21:49:57 adlai: "I wish I could stay, without it costing me one bitcoin per week"
adlai: do you compute forex torsion?
adlai spends more time designing sane spec for "compute forex torsion" than talking to accountants and venture capital demons
adlai: e.g., "I pay one dollar to rent cage in datacentre, and earn one satoshi from subletting cage to kitchen mouse" could be the torque at one end of the cable, with similar quotient at other end, anchored to... idk, euros per pound.
adlai: then you have a bunch of tensors and cross products and sam's your uncle, no?
asciilifeform: adlai: again not 'if only exch rate were diff.' matter was simple like hammer : dun matter what the exch rt is in $orcland, you still need cashflow.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-29 22:01:04 asciilifeform: well anywhere 'expensive' if yer broke; and conversely
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-29 22:05:27 asciilifeform: not moved anywhere, because what actually wants is to move outta workschwitz, and at his place in foodchain this requires 'a different globe' rather than simply plane ticket..
adlai: what I'm describing is meaningless without at least four dimensions of currency.
adlai: in the example of your visit to Romania, those would be, perhaps... spending time working at your dayjob in maryland, earning dollars from the dayjob; versus spending time and savings searching for a dayjob in romania, earning enjoyment of eastern europe and the hope of another dayjob
asciilifeform: lol dayjob in ro
asciilifeform: ro aint much fun on the ~5$/d the locals make
adlai: well you repeatedly said this would not be practical; and the example I gave here involves time and hope as dimensions of currency, so is also a bit of a charicature.
asciilifeform: adlai: dayjob sux no matter where you do it, is the other thing.
adlai: fwiw, this kind of computation is precisely the reason I've repeatedly considered joining your datacentre clientel; when I "feel like trader", from my own proverbial bathtub... the forex torsion is computed on an untethered guitar string, and it sounds worse than terrible.
asciilifeform: good % of wai ro was fun was that asciilifeform got to spend 2w not at his terminal.
adlai: yes
adlai: you ever get, idk, a weekend away from keyboards?
adlai: without it costing a plane ticket and two weeks of spending cash in a suitcase
adlai found that the weeks of "no keyboard other than mechanical typewriter" worked wonders for his own happiness, regardless of what they may have done for other metrics
signpost: best if in sun.
asciilifeform: week of idleness for asciilifeform costs considerably moar than just about any plane ticket.
signpost intends in next home to put consoles in a solarium.
asciilifeform: signpost: do post, if you do this, if find lcd that actually visible in sun
adlai: what about one of those antisad lamps?
adlai: back in my New England days, these were frequently recommended to folks who didn't like the winter.
signpost: will do. will probably take a few attempts.
signpost needs at least an hour of sunlight per day to feel well.
signpost: meant to be middlingly brown for a european.
adlai actually had no problem with winters... was more disturbed by the typical teenager problems, "what do you mean I am not a member of any clique in the social graph!"
asciilifeform: signpost: 'eizo 3285' mostly ok in sun near window, at full gas, but asciilifeform not tried it outdoors/in solarium fwiw
signpost: winter's fine, as long as crisp and sunny often
adlai wonders how long until blind programmers reappear.
adlai: so far, I've not prioritized "be able to use computer with eyes closed" at any significant level, despite making this pretty much #1 priority for the piano keyboard.
adlai: it is remarkably frustrating to learn how to play a piano blind, after having already learned how to play it not blind.
mats: put braille on the keys
phf: u.s. outside of major diversity enclaves is both surprisingly beautiful and surprisingly pleasant
phf: (this is re some points made further up the log)
asciilifeform: if what you like is mountains, bears, etc. prolly can get 'beautiful and pleasant' on erry continent short of the ice caps
phf: that's not all i like and not all i'm talking about
asciilifeform: phf: hm?
adlai: mats: re:braille, I am much less worried about touch typing, and much more worried about linear vs gestalt
adlai: although at least some study of the braille arrangement could be educational.
phf: but even when it comes to "mountains and bears" there's not many places with such variety of experiences made easy to access by men long dead. e.g. west coast goes from russian evergreen forest, to sequoia, to desert
signpost loved the transition from around portland, OR, to the columbia river valley
asciilifeform: phf: prolly oughta elaborate. (at risk of repeating ancient thrd) what asciilifeform liked in ro : austrohungarian architecture w/ just the right admixture of sovok nostalgia, 5 course dinner w/ venison for ~20$ walking distance from bed, and that didn't have to sit at terminal 12h/d, lol. 1st 2 not avail. in north amer. for obv. reasons; last item was a 'while air in the tanks' affair, similarly obv.
signpost: desert on one side, rainforest on the other.
asciilifeform unrepentantly 'city' type, and cities in usa suck imho.
adlai has been advised to leave cities!
signpost: one can love it all.
adlai: imo, Israel only has one city; the conversation ending with "leave town" did not go as far as "which one, lol?"
signpost: mats: this seems such a mistake, at least from the perspective of anyone who enjoys life.
adlai: mats: some sorta caption, anchor text, hook beyond merely a url, please?
signpost: weimarism, it worked for germany!
adlai: "" is not much of a hook.
asciilifeform: mats: reads exactly like last 50y of 'professional sovietology' lol
asciilifeform: prolly by nao they've a perl script..
adlai: hasn't the Rand Corporation been around for longer than intellectuals have been hating on the author?
asciilifeform: (for folx not familiar, 'rand co.' is a lulzy reich outfit, proxy for various wunderwaffen interests, which existed to push 'soviet thread'(tm) and 'moar costly wunderwaffen needed' since '50s)
asciilifeform: *threat
asciilifeform: adlai: no relation to the chick
adlai considers it an equivalent corporate voice to "Think Tank, Inc", "Think Tank, Ltd", and "Think Institute"
asciilifeform: (was 'research and development')
signpost: "Deploying additional tactical nuclear weapons to locations in Europe and Asia could heighten Russia???s anxiety enough to significantly increase investments in its air defenses." << I could not hate these people more.
phf: asciilifeform: i'm not "unrepentantly" city, so all in all i'm quite happy with a variety of experiences provided by u.s. but i've also gotten disappointed in cities and also in the whole "5 course meal" culture. in my opinion the later is mostly dead. i don't mean that you can't get the proverbial 5 course meal, i mean that they wouldn't know how to place silverware, or when to serve digestive against aperetif, or whatever.
asciilifeform: signpost: dig out their similar brochures from half century ago, all reads precisely alike
mats: seems to be working to some extent
asciilifeform: phf: more pertinently, whatever 'n course meal' in usa will include sysco
mats: got the germans to rearm which seemed impossible for decades
asciilifeform: (possibly if yer rockefeller or even mp -- won't; but speaking of humans)
mats: nobody saw that coming
adlai: fwiw, first time I ever encountered the word 'Rand', without the '-om' suffix, was in the caption of a big rectangular block of guess what kind of unwhitened data.
signpost does not see virtue in the circle-of-guns-to-head model with which earth governs itself.
asciilifeform: mats: whatcha talking about, gdr was hosting american nukes for most of past half c
signpost: would rather see the thing rip loose.
asciilifeform: err, frg
mats: sure, but they were hardly a competent military power
mats: europeans had to beg for american airpower to do libya
asciilifeform: mats: was simply a parking lot for us army. just as today
adlai: for all I know, the other pages of their book of uncorrelated numbers were whitened beyond legibility; this one page was quoted in some other book, as an example of, "look, if you want really uncorrelated stuff, you have to do more than copy code out of this textbook"
phf: asciilifeform: that's not entirely true, i think you're measuring us by the greater dc area, which is indeed a shithole. e.g. philly has great restaurateur scene. "farm to table" is almost always not just a catch phrase!
signpost: lots of great food around austin and houston also.
mats: double the budget again and they could conceivably stand up a one quarter plausible european army
asciilifeform: phf: asciilifeform not been to all of usa. but at this pt would bet $, if there were any way to settle the bet, that erry publicly accessible restaurant there serves nonzero sysco.
asciilifeform: or equivalent.
signpost: but you know, I'm sitting here listening to miles davis vinyls in my underwear with a crappy beer, so I may not be the cultural ambassador you're looking for.
phf: asciilifeform: eh, i now remember your rants on the subject
adlai: does germany even have any fundamental pacifism in its legislation, the way japan does?
phf: and wash my hands!
adlai not kept up with pace of legislation, and gave up on doing so, sometime around when had to read and write about the US Constitution during school
adlai: imagine returning to Israel, after this! "Maybe Israel has a constitution shorter than that of the US?" ... "uh, ever heard of the bible? begin from genesis, and keep reading for six thousand years"
adlai: << ideally, the gordian gestalt knotting of rows and columns would not suffer from the PWM nastyness which, unsprurisingly, affects both optical screens and guitar amplifiers.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-04 22:33:16 adlai: mats: re:braille, I am much less worried about touch typing, and much more worried about linear vs gestalt
adlai: probably even affects nerves, without any electrical bills involved.
adlai: however, that is some other entomologist's specialisation!
mats: why do you always write like you've done a sheet of acid
adlai: in case "linear vs gestalt" is worse than mere word salad: the two terms refer to the kind of information flow found in hearing, and vision, respectively.
asciilifeform: mats: iirc he always eats one while booting up
mats: this is why people hate you
signpost: bwahaha
adlai: because I have eaten enough contiguous tabs, long ago, to probably talk this way forever?
signpost: here I was thinking he seemed *less* high!
adlai never saw an entire sheet in one piece
signpost: wrote and erased a compliment to that effect!
mats: newb
signpost: pfff I ate plenty of acid; what you ate is speed.
asciilifeform: hm i thought that was laddel's thing
mats: talk to enough grateful dead groupies and you can eventually get yourself a sheet for ~$400
phf: i've hooked up with a older raver girl from manchester, who partied through the early 90s. like the best acid house times. she literally could not finish a sentence. she'll start on a point and then it'll keep rolling and rolling and rolling...
adlai: there's something to be said for having that conversation, where by the end of it, the dealer understands why one of the most frequently repeated pieces of advice is "never sell an amount, to one person, that you would not want eaten in one dose"
signpost: "when you get the message, hang up the phone" (tm) (r) (mckenna)
phf: "i once smoke so much weed i saw dmt gnomes" (tm) (r) (mckenna)
adlai: my favorite story, iirc about both McKenna brothers, is that they screamed tones at a campfire, attempting to cause chemical changes in the stew boiling above it by hitting resonant tones of relevant reactions.
signpost suspects rather that people are just utterly strange, and mostly struggling to contain it.
adlai: although this may be a story about T.McKenna, and only recounted by his less drugged-out brother.
signpost: substances are innocent bystanders to their strange.
asciilifeform not eaten lsd, not because averse but simply not encountered in meatwot to date.
adlai: you probably spend too much time at computer terminals!
asciilifeform: could say it's yet another 'landscape of usa' that asciilifeform not been to.
adlai: my experience with, let's call them "beyond pothead" folks, is that they are not fans of initiating conversations about hard drugs next to computer terminals.
phf: explore the inner dimensions of your miiind maaaan
adlai: obviously, there are exceptions to this generalisation.
asciilifeform: adlai, phf : asciilifeform admits, still has suspicion that 'they couldn't finish a sentence!' is a selection bias rather than effect of n grams of xyz
adlai: part of the problem is stack depth
asciilifeform: ( could the chick finish-a-sentence before the lsd ? )
signpost: folks like that typically started substances as a distraction from severe mental illness.
adlai: if it's her first time speaking a complete paragraph, outside of writing assignments in school, then not being able to speak a paragraph within one sentence is no surprise.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. k.mullis, could finish a sentence )
signpost done "heroic doses", might be a little weird, might sometimes write shit about nietzsche nobody cares about, but believes the sentences mostly cohere.
adlai: it helps to mercilessly shred apart written prose, in search of grammatical structure, when you suspect they don't.
asciilifeform: ( or even consider the effects of stims , similarly )
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-07-14 asciilifeform: re: 'performance enhancing' dopes - important to remember that, even supposing performance enhanced, it matters who you were. e.g. paul erdos will crap out theorems, a hooligan will be able to break that many more windows, a lunatic will rant longer and more vigorously, etc.
signpost: re: performance enhancers, most enjoyable I ever tried was oxiracetam.
signpost: worked so well I stopped because I was suspicious.
signpost: "cannot possibly be costless"
phf: asciilifeform: from personal experience i will say that it's highly likely that yes she could. because she would talk normal often times, you'd just see her get into a mode of sorts. i've also seen effects of heavy psychedelic use on long term psychedlic users
asciilifeform: signpost: interesting -- not noticed any macroscopic effect from subj
signpost: tried the same?
adlai: can even use a shredder for this! provided that it's not a cross-shredder; i.e., shred apart rows of your text, arrange scroll-like contiguous sentences, then fold into trees.
asciilifeform: signpost: tried various xyzracetams, incl. that one
signpost: possibly varies by physiology, dunno
asciilifeform: found very much in category of 'hmm maybe this does sumthing'
signpost felt UTTERLY AWAKE.
signpost: never that awake since.
signpost: without the sense of being swept by e.g. caffiene, cocaine.
phf: has any one of us ever really been awake maaaan?
signpost chortles
signpost: bad dream, we'll wake up listening to mp address the first republican congress momentarily.
adlai: phf: ever encountered "took so much drugs that reality broke"? i.e., cases typically forcibly hospitalised, or at least labelled 'psychotic', for disagreements about simple facts of the immediately evident physical world
adlai fwiw never agreed with 'psychosis' label, and was hospitalised for violence
signpost: adlai: sounds like you live in a shithole that abused you for being high.
signpost also, lives.
phf: adlai: oh yeah i have a few fun stories about it.
adlai: psychiatrists have a remarkably low bar for 'dangerous violence'; in my case, I intentionally knocked an office toy off the desk.
asciilifeform: lol! lemme guess, this was in usa ? and this got you into a bedlam?!
adlai: nah, in Israel!
adlai: I had plenty of other complaints, some of them agreeably dangerous; yet this action is the one that got the liberty of walking out of the hospital legally revoked, until a committee decided that I deserved it.
asciilifeform not yet been in a bedlam but suppose there's still time, lol
phf: adlai: one guy was growing mushrooms with his girl, and was taking them every weekend for a year or so, and then had a psychotic break. he doesn't really remember what happened, but his first sort of concious memories is him calling his parents from a diner in dc (he lived in philly). he threw out his shoes because cia put bugs in them, etc.
signpost finds it hilarious how readily the j00z jumped both feet into fascism.
signpost: "well! it worked!"
asciilifeform: fascism -- mature capitalism (tm)(r)(stalin)
signpost: phf: rough.
signpost: asciilifeform: 100% granted
adlai: phf: my early psychiatric paperwork is full of doctors failing to quote correctly my explanations of ... pretty much anything related to computers
adlai: now, it could be that I was not speaking coherently when explaining myself; yet, couldn't doctors quote incoherence precisely, instead of paraphrasing worse than the lunatic?
phf: adlai: one guy had a psychotic break on dmt, he at some point came back from the dmt experience with a split personality. one is him, the other is a god. he's now (years later) reasoned himself into some kind of ability to function. but he still experiences the godhead within him, talks to it, etc.
asciilifeform: adlai: likely most folx who program computer -- good candidates for heavy psychiatric treatment. simply, most keep it under wraps
signpost: phf: you don't have one of those?
signpost considers most of these stories "traumatic direct experience of normal psychology"
adlai: phf: that is one approach to functioning; the other, depersonalise the godhead into your own TempleOS.
signpost: wtf has anyone praying heard throughout history? that.
signpost: jaynesian voice of admonition.
signpost has a 12ft tall being of purple fire that appears in dreams now and again.
phf: signpost: i'm actually the godhead of the dmt guy. i can only be here when he's sleeping.
adlai: nah, plenty of folks hear speech more detailed than mere trite imperatives.
signpost: bwahaha
asciilifeform: signpost: nifty. asciilifeform dun seem to have had that module installed, in his dreams mostly the shitholes he worked in, or schools he was bored outta his skull in, in various admixtures
adlai: asciilifeform: in my experience, you can get most of the lessons out of mental asylums within one season; however, one guy I met there had apparently spent closer to an entire year, forcibly confined to the closed ward; and another fellow, never spends entire seasons, yet returns often enough to have ongoing arguments with the other...
asciilifeform on rare occasions, dreams of long-destroyed homeworld
phf: "just mundaine stuff, school, work places... sometimes i dream of my long-destroyed home planet"
asciilifeform: adlai: lessons? can't resist to ask, what were these
signpost: that "spaceman" vision of soviet scientific utopianism is inspiring, comes through in the art I've seen posted in the logs.
signpost: hell of a better motivation than hoarding company store credits.
signpost: re: pantheon of mind, eventually I imagine humans will consciously author these.
adlai: asciilifeform: well! most boil down to familiar cliches, e.g. "It does not matter whether there is always staff observing each patient, if each patient behaves properly."
adlai: (equivalent to cliche about paranoia)
signpost: what I was on about re: transcending nietzsche. a human brain's a machine for running agents. plural.
adlai: when I began discussing this with one of the doctors, as opposed to the nurses, the doctor pretty much turned off the conversation by saying, "spying on you is not ethical. any other questions?"
signpost: adlai: the isolation and rape (figuratively or otherwise) of these places has nothing to do with healing.
signpost: it's a box scammer humans created in which to catch prey.
adlai only calls it 'hospital' because that word is on the paperwork.
asciilifeform to date succeeded in staying outta the hands of mengeles; met plenty of folx who haven't, tho, knows a bit re subj
signpost: if you're actually sick, all the better. prey will stay longer.
adlai: folks who enter closed wards voluntarily typically do not remain there, voluntarily, for very long!
adlai: either leave voluntarily, or get liberties removed.
adlai: obviously, in capitalist utopias like Israel, the folks who enter voluntarily have to keep account while they are there. keeps the population in check, no?
signpost: recall when I wrote of my own "medication" episode?
adlai: asciilifeform: if you want 'lessons' along the lines of "antipsychotic trip report", the metaphor that I've used for the worst experience was getting my brain buried under a pile of behemoth turds similar to the one at the end of the first Jurassic Park movie.
signpost: that'n
signpost: but adlai's bouncing too quickly for me to relate.
asciilifeform: adlai: 'chemical straightjacket' aha. is how is usually described.
adlai will re-read article re:quetiapine
signpost: the creatures in these boxes have a pornographic relationship with the "care" they provide.
signpost: if you get something out of it, great, but it's satisfying something other than "caregiver" in them.
adlai: first reading was back when I was checking in here / #t approximately once per moon.
phf: signpost: famously "one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
phf: (apropos our conversation ken kesey wrote it while working as a night guard at a mental facility while at the same time participating in those government lsd studies)
signpost: yep, no different than the urge to e.g. sit in congress and make normies pay 3x for bread.
phf: let them eat ev car batteries
asciilifeform hilariously, ordered some recently, to find that they're in megadeficit
phf: loafs of bread?
asciilifeform: evbatteries
asciilifeform: tho bread, lol, also, last 'baked right there' bakery within convenient range of asciilifeform has shuttered, nao eating 100% handmade, by pet, a la mp's
signpost: man, having a woman in one's life who takes to the task of plugging every cultural gap she can manage. there is nothing better than this.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-04-23 16:56:47 asciilifeform: << asciilifeform has 1 of these also
mats: baking bread isn't hard
asciilifeform: mats: well it can't be done from console, lol
asciilifeform: or via a perl
mats: the real trick is getting a small oven so you can make relatively smaller ovens on demand
mats: and it won't take 45 minutes
mats: er, smaller loaves
asciilifeform too late, recursed, blew stack!11
mats: waiting 30 minutes to preheat is ridiculous
phf: 30 minutes? that's with electric?
mats: i'm exaggerating a little, 20 minutes for bread is i think standard with an electric oven
asciilifeform: seems the dough per se takes longer, what with maintaining the culture etc. but asciilifeform aint personally involved, cannot comment in depth
adlai: there must be some recipe involving squirrelling an ice cube into the dough, ending up with inverted crust, no?
adlai: the complete idjit's guide to making bread in a microwave oven
phf: mats: i don't personally do bread, that's lady's business, but steak preheat to 450f takes about 4 minutes on gas stove
adlai: signpost: I take it you prefer oneline comments on IRC, instead of the blog?
signpost just arrives at his kettle and what, there's tea here in little stacked jars with w/e white ink labels on the glass.
signpost: didn't have to whip anyone for this. it just accumulated here!
signpost: adlai: either way man.
adlai: stuff you don't learn in chemistry labs!
adlai learned not much more than how to write "GARBAGE ADLAI" really quickly with sharpie
adlai: protip: write GARBAGE on every beaker, nobody steals your garbage!
signpost: that's why you're not my wife, sweetheart.
phf: in this conversation we marvel that in our respective families stuff that was considered the absolute baseline 40-50 years ago works
adlai: signpost: my comment is, "Have you considered writing such reflections, in the future, without resorting to footnotes?"
mats: i'm kind of surprised hanbot still blogs regularly
signpost: adlai: was probably an mp conceit I was imitating at the time, overusing them.
mats: forgot how many times mp wrote something like 'you better kill yourself if you let me die'
mats: what a guy
adlai: re:garbage - for a while, back when I was accumulating hordes of various drugs, I began writing poison labels on stashes.
signpost: mats: I suspect there was a private life not seen, but w/e.
adlai: nothing quite medical, simply "POISON", or jolly roger glyphs, etc.
adlai eventually realised anyone rifling through the kitchen had probably hallucinated "GARBAGE" spraypainted on the door, and extra labels were useless.
signpost: in which it is demonstrated that he knows what I'm talking about by blithering antithesis.
signpost: phf: the way things have gone, pleasure in the mundane is all that's left.
signpost: I've got a bidet; maybe my great grandson gets a piano.
adlai: signpost: re:footnotes - my question about them goes together with the question about oneline comments; I guess my heuristic for whether something warrants an indirection is whether it'd be an endnote, exclusive-of a footnote, in a printed book that had both kinds.
adlai: * exclusive-or
adlai: pianos are dangerous!
adlai one time, quite recently, began reading about piano mechanics; apparently most patents for the kind that can be moved from one place to another, are about making the piano quieter, and the forte - also quieter
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-02-03 phf: my mom had one of those "papa escaped the purges by burning all paperwork but life got tough when they took our governess" piano teachers, who would lament about being forced to teach peasants and brown folk, not on racial grounds as much as "you have to have a bidet in your house for 3 generations, before you can touch a piano"
adlai: perhaps not surprising, to folks who encounter music as noisy neighbors, rather than a cheaper pastime than drugs.
adlai: aha
mats: signpost: having known abusers, doubt it
signpost: certainly there's something on the gal's face that says much.
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