dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-12 22:19:17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-12#1057793 << soo yer not only asking to double (triple? ntuple? in general case) the req'd amt of bandwidth taken up, but also asking receiver to burn a buncha cpu cycles finding the correct alignment?! all to avoid using checksums?
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-12#1057810 I never wrote ``unauthenticated''.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-12 22:09:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-12#1057805 << it's no optimization of any kind, if yer storing unauthenticated and undecrypted (i.e. can't see the timestamp yet) enemy can fill you to the ears with replayed material
PeterL: verisimilitude: so you are saying to save both the black and red packet after authentication, which doubles the amount of data stored, but will allow quicker discarding of black packets if somebody tries to flood you with replays?
asciilifeform: PeterL, verisimilitude : storing a black packet is absolutely pointless (even if you already discovered, by decoding it, that the signature is valid and the timestamp is not stale)
asciilifeform thought that this was rather obvious
asciilifeform: the only time you'll ever see a black packet twice+ is during ddos. and i did specify that yer box gotta be able to handle the full decoding procedure at line rate.
PeterL: according to the protocol, you should never see the same black packet twice
asciilifeform: PeterL: not from an actual pest station, no. from ddoser -- yes
asciilifeform: but adding an extra hashism and bufferism for blacks doesn't help -- enemy can simply throw 5years worth of valid but distinct blacks he collected from your isp instead of simply identical
PeterL: and if you can actually decode at line rate, trying to ddos by replaying is pointless
asciilifeform: and then you'll be burning ~more~ cpu to deal with these, than per my specced scheme.
asciilifeform: PeterL: correct.
asciilifeform: ergo black packet is thrown out after decoding (or being proclaimed martian).
asciilifeform will bbr
PeterL: so adding a black packet buffer just adds one more check that you don't need
PeterL: well, not just one more check, one more check against everything in the buffer
asciilifeform: PeterL: correct
asciilifeform: meanwhile in 0xFE comments.
asciilifeform: mats: 'The court filings detailed that prosecutors will drop the charges if the three men cooperate with U.S. authorities, pay a financial penalty, and agree to a list of unspecified restrictions on their employment' << lol, press-gang ??
asciilifeform: unrelatedly,
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-15 11:07:22 asciilifeform: but adding an extra hashism and bufferism for blacks doesn't help -- enemy can simply throw 5years worth of valid but distinct blacks he collected from your isp instead of simply identical
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-07 14:34:56 asciilifeform: so handshake goes : 1) X->Y : a' 2) Y->X: b' 3) X->Y: a 4) if a' != H(a), Y->X: fuckyou ; else Y->X: b 5) if b' != H(b), X->Y: fuckyou; else X->Y: hello with new key a^b 6) Y->X: hello to you too with new key a^b .
asciilifeform: and unrelatedly to this, is ~is~ possible to maintain a large log and answer 'getdata' for arbitrarily old packets, ~if~ the timestamp check is made ~after~ checksumming of the message.
asciilifeform: this'd be a slightly more expensive per-packet prologue -- but allow arbitrarily old timestamps ~strictly~ when they are replies to a getdata which explicitly requested an 'ancient' packet, without adding anything to be gained by a replayer.
asciilifeform: (i.e. this is solvable)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-12 19:21:26 asciilifeform: thinking again about 'getdata' : this won't work as given. because if timestamp indicates 'stale' (>15min in the past) the answer to the 'getdata' will be tossed.
asciilifeform: ... and imho oughta be done; the price is small, while the gain (read log to beginning of time! for so long as even 1 peer has it and willing to answer) is substantial.
asciilifeform invites discussion; will bbl
PeterL: would the getdata only be for things that peer had said, or for any data? IE, would I only be required to hold onto my own history, rather than keeping everything I had ever seen?
mats: asciilifeform: the filings land a day after expressvpn is acquired
mats: convenient timing
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-15#1058228 << keeping only your history would be weird, if you are gonna limit your log, you'd limit by time, not speaker
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-15 14:40:37 PeterL: would the getdata only be for things that peer had said, or for any data? IE, would I only be required to hold onto my own history, rather than keeping everything I had ever seen?
punkman: also if I want to catchup with getdata(selfchain) requests, I'd also need a way to get last selfchain for all speakers
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-15#1058231 << you keep at minimum 30min of log, separately, for a) your net b) direct (priv.) messaging sessions w/ each peer.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-15 16:24:02 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-15#1058228 << keeping only your history would be weird, if you are gonna limit your log, you'd limit by time, not speaker
asciilifeform: (a) can getdata on (a), (b) can getdata on (his particular) (b), strictly.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-15#1058233 << mno. you getdata on the self/net chain of your last packet received (in the case of (a) -- from anyone on your net; in the case of (b) -- from the peer in question.)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-15 16:26:05 punkman: also if I want to catchup with getdata(selfchain) requests, I'd also need a way to get last selfchain for all speakers
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-15#1058228 << stations oughta answer getdatas on a 'cycles available' basis. in principle very little will be lost if ~no one~ answers'em, you will simply have a very small amount of outright lossiness. and very little ability to follow unbroken chains if your/peer's uptime aint 100%.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-15 14:40:37 PeterL: would the getdata only be for things that peer had said, or for any data? IE, would I only be required to hold onto my own history, rather than keeping everything I had ever seen?
asciilifeform: it is largely on account of the latter that, imho, getdata is justified.
asciilifeform: ( and not on account of packet loss, which happens just about never on a working (i.e. rats not chewed on cable on either end) link. )
asciilifeform: in other words, virtually 100% of packet loss happens because the would-be recipient box is actually unplugged.
asciilifeform: (or in some cases the ~sender~ is..)
punkman: asciilifeform: if first message of speaker has selfchain=0, how do we request getdata for it
punkman: hmm never mind, got it
punkman: re: packet loss https://www.openmymind.net/How-Unreliable-Is-UDP/
asciilifeform: punkman: you don't
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: punkman: we did a similar udp trial in the #t days, found iirc 0 loss (can't seem to dig out the log ptr tho. if anyone recalls, plox to write in)
asciilifeform: punkman: was a test of this asciilifeform item. (where conveniently example proggies for echo)
asciilifeform: iirc diana & co. took and made a more elaborate setup with permutations & ordering test etc
asciilifeform: !q uptime
dulapbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 91d 21h 51m
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deedbot: 8956064EF7FA477D399DCD48A743EB3C1DF43CFD registered as jonsykkel.
jonsykkel: ty
asciilifeform: !!rate jonsykkel 1 FFA reader from Naggumistan
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=xML4
asciilifeform: !!v 7FE812D13868BD70B8CB39481CA50CAC5D1250A61DD24AB6A80E217D03A7764A
deedbot: asciilifeform rated jonsykkel 1 << FFA reader from Naggumistan
asciilifeform: !!rated punkman
deedbot: asciilifeform has not rated punkman.
asciilifeform: !!rate punkman 3 thinking fella, long history, inquire within
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8hXG
asciilifeform: !!v 2D7BE87EE614862777D947CDB1B937690975DC5D905801209E2D91ED7F6791A9
deedbot: asciilifeform rated punkman 3 << thinking fella, long history, inquire within
asciilifeform: !!rated PeterL
deedbot: asciilifeform has not rated PeterL.
asciilifeform: !!rate 2 PeterL scoopbot; ffa reader
asciilifeform: err
asciilifeform: !!rate PeterL 2 scoopbot; ffa reader
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=-D0h
asciilifeform: !!v D53575E5696B1CEB8C7FD66CBE8F9B531672CB4908C2C73CBB64B5FDAA567C7F
deedbot: asciilifeform rated PeterL 2 << scoopbot; ffa reader
asciilifeform: !!rated billymg
deedbot: asciilifeform rated billymg 1 at 2020/02/12 20:46:02 << dulap-gentoo user; #a denizen
asciilifeform: !!rated whaack
deedbot: asciilifeform rated whaack 1 at 2020/07/15 18:19:33 << demo subscriber
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deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pOCw
asciilifeform: !!v 5E9A69524E7ED33F4C9FAA02784D987CF1597685966F8F2BBA463CA4F0AFEFB1
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of billymg from 1 to 3 << wwwtronics work; dulap-gentoo tuning; trb noad explorer; inquire within
asciilifeform: !!rate whaack 2 trb student; block explorer; dulap-gentoo tuning; inquire within
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=g_ys
asciilifeform: !!v 223DBB2EB0A80BF1DCB9446B00E22F971F76F385B772EA8ED32731462AC27E92
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of whaack from 1 to 2 << trb student; block explorer; dulap-gentoo tuning; inquire within
asciilifeform: !!key mats
asciilifeform: !!rated mats
deedbot: asciilifeform rated mats 3 at 2018/08/07 12:12:35 << dug up 100GB of ssh/ssl phuctor fodder
asciilifeform: !!rated thimbronion
deedbot: asciilifeform rated thimbronion 1 at 2020/02/12 20:21:33 << linguist
asciilifeform: !!rate thimbronion 3 p2pism, encyclopaedism, various other things, inquire within
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Kvuk
asciilifeform: !!v 6A8C1C1115719800F7E37EB0671810D888C3973F1472EE76A38D2D96BFAEE0B3
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of thimbronion from 1 to 3 << p2pism, encyclopaedism, various other things, inquire within
asciilifeform: signpost: it's great to have deedbot back. ty again for this.
signpost: mighty happy to see it used.
asciilifeform: !!rate mircea_popescu 1 sleeping in davy jones's locker. RIP.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1vst
asciilifeform: !!v 105E96FD4C6E73FBD80419700232D34EFA45467FDE80A8CB5B253AD8AC42FB13
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of mircea_popescu from 2 to 1 << sleeping in davy jones's locker. RIP.
asciilifeform: !!rate pankkake 1 performed honourable seppuku. rip.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=qIP5
asciilifeform: !!v D58885CDBF8712609E7F009CD3B1FD82D92FC6FE52004C5ED5162750255A5563
deedbot: asciilifeform rated pankkake 1 << performed honourable seppuku. rip.
asciilifeform apologizes if he forgot anyone