asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $35981.62
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=684199
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=684199 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.084s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=684199
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.109s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=684199
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.173s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=684199
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=684199 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.236s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=684199
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.213s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=684199
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.307s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=684199
thimbronion: I heard (haven't verified) Eth fees are like .3 eth rn.
billymg: thimbronion: LOL
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: trinque)
billymg: thimbronion: i was a little surprised they brought back doge this year, i wonder what it will be next time
billymg: maybe ltc
thimbronion: These are the "elites" we have.
trinque: .ticker btc btc
trinque: Current BTC price in BTC: 1 BTC
trinque: incidentally it's still up what, 3x, in that US shitcoin.
billymg: asciilifeform: ready to see a quick demo of logotron html/css updates?
asciilifeform: billymg: sure
billymg: as you can see i'm only tracking one channel now, but i have some dummies hardcoded in to show what that looks like
asciilifeform: billymg: looks rather similar to mine -- what didja change ?
billymg: asciilifeform: good! that was the point for the first pass on the "classic" theme (the changes are in the html/css)
billymg: one sec, lemme enable a few fake chan links for demo purposes
billymg: ok, now if you refresh you'll see a few more chans
billymg: now, the fun part, i will switch one line in the conf to point to a different css file...
billymg: asciilifeform: now try reloading and you will see my new theme (may not be to everyone's taste)
billymg: but point is, it was a one-line change in the conf. anyone can write their own css file, no need to edit any other code
billymg: asciilifeform: also note that this css conf change has zero effect on lynx -- will always render the same there
billymg: asciilifeform: regarding lynx, would also like to get your feedback on the one change there. i changed the chan list from a table to a list, so lynx now renders it differently
asciilifeform doesn't much like the dark theme but can see how some folx might
billymg: wanted to see if you prefer it that way or if you'd rather see it in the table like before
asciilifeform: billymg: i like the old one (that i cribbed from phf)
billymg: asciilifeform: do you use light theme for all terminals and text/code editors as well?
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-19#1036774 << this is in reference to lynx rendering or the css-ized version?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-19 11:51:58 asciilifeform: billymg: i like the old one (that i cribbed from phf)
asciilifeform: billymg: only for shells. for emacs i've 'borland pascal' colours
billymg: asciilifeform: blue?
billymg: asciilifeform: neato
billymg could spend a coupla hours making a borland.css for the logotron that mimics this (not suggesting that's what asciilifeform was suggesting, but could)
asciilifeform: billymg: again i don't have a fixation on 'same errywhere'
asciilifeform: shells, log www, etc. i never have borlandized
billymg: asciilifeform: same here, i've got different themes going in different windows and machines
billymg: asciilifeform: ok, for the purposes of lynx rendering, i will revert the chan list to a table so that the channels are displayed horizontally
billymg: asciilifeform: in my dark theme, what do you think about the chan list in the right sidebar? does this work well on your vertical monitors? (i tried keeping it very narrow)
asciilifeform: billymg: it eats horiz. space. on '4k' lcd there's enuff remaining to read, but i can picture on lower res would be tight
billymg: lastly, i did fix one bug i noticed with the search bar, where it would cause a server error with queries less than 3 characters
billymg: and i made the /log a knob in the conf file
billymg: you'll see mine is living at /
billymg: so now user can set to /foo/ or whatever they like
billymg: asciilifeform: i haven't tried it on an ipad yet, but the css tightens it up on narrow displays (you can try by resizing your browser window)
billymg: and for "mobile" (< 768px wide) it stacks
asciilifeform: billymg: i confess, i do not like chan list to eat full vertical chunk of the screen. simply can't see why to do this.
asciilifeform: you're welcome to do whatever on your own www, of course. but i like the horiz. format.
asciilifeform: billymg: congrats re baking own log box, btw !
asciilifeform: billymg: somehow i didn't realize you baked own chan. lemme know if you want it included in my logotron.
billymg: asciilifeform: yes, would be happy to have it hosted on yours as well
asciilifeform: billymg: do you have the raw log export knob enabled ?
billymg: would this be first instance of two nsabot loggers in the same chan?
billymg: asciilifeform: will look and if not will get that for you
asciilifeform: billymg: nah, there were at one pt 3 in #t. and iirc even now there's a lobbes box here
billymg: asciilifeform: i haven't thoroughly looked through the bot code yet, are there existing knobs so that two bots don't both echo pasted loglines?
asciilifeform: billymg: bots only echo lines which cite their own log, by design
billymg: asciilifeform: also, minor clarification re: your comment of "eat full vertical chunk of the screen" -- when i said mine stacks on mobile i meant the layout (e.g. chans will be at top of screen, but arranged horizontally)
billymg: additionally, the stacking in lynx as a side effect of converting the chan list table to a ul will be reverted
asciilifeform: billymg: i was speaking of the page currently visible from ordinary box. there is a chan list occupying right hand side.
billymg will publish a patch of changes (minus personal theme) when it's cleaned up, most likely on my blog by tomorrow
asciilifeform: billymg: why not add your favourite theme to the genesis too (in subdir if you like) -- maybe everyone but asciilifeform wants it
asciilifeform: (if my 32in 'eizos' weren't standing vertically, i think i'd want it to)
asciilifeform wonders if it's possible to auto-toggle ~without jsism~
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, i see. imo i like the vertical sidebar chanlist in the desktop view (it mimics many other interfaces i use) -- but will note to others, it's a simple flip of a css switch, no markup changes between what i showed earlier as "classic" and "bitdash" themes
billymg: asciilifeform: i could make a separate patch for the theme
billymg: asciilifeform: is possible to auto toggle with css
billymg: asciilifeform: if you resize your browser window to less than 768px wide you will see it switch the layout to something closer to classic (chan list on top, arranged horizontally)
asciilifeform: would be nifty imho (supposing worked 100% errywhere)
asciilifeform: eh fixed pixel widths simply will never trigger on any box of mine
billymg: asciilifeform: not sure how wide the support is but iirc been around decade+
asciilifeform: i use 'ratpoison' which gives permenent fullscreen.
asciilifeform: and my screens are 2160 wide.
billymg: asciilifeform: meaning your browser windows are never less than 2160px wide?
asciilifeform: even on crapple box i have it set to fill the display always.
billymg: asciilifeform: lol in that case i don't see why the fuss over the ~200px sidebar
asciilifeform: cuz it irritates me to have a thing that never contains more than half dozen lines of text, eat a megachunk of screen from head to toe.
asciilifeform: billymg: my q 'can autoswitch w/out js?' specifically, can one tell whether w < h ?
asciilifeform: (and then execute the req'd case)
asciilifeform: why the pixel constants?
billymg: asciilifeform: answer is yes, and even wouldn't use "media queries" (css definitions targeting different viewport widths)
asciilifeform: the last time i owned a display that was <768 pixels along either axis, was in 1990s
billymg: would work with ?navtop=true in url or something
billymg: presence of which loads an extra coupla lines of css
asciilifeform: billymg: lemme know if you have this going, will test.
billymg: asciilifeform: sorry, i just reread http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-19#1036833
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-19 13:59:52 asciilifeform: billymg: my q 'can autoswitch w/out js?' specifically, can one tell whether w < h ?
billymg: my suggestion of adding a URL param would not be "auto", but selected the way "show inactive chans" works now (roughly)
asciilifeform: iirc last time i looked into it, answer was 'nope'
billymg: however, detecting the w < h also doable
billymg: via css media query, which i'm pretty sure works on any browser anyone here is using (bold assumption, i know)
billymg: not including lynx and other terminal browsers, obviously
asciilifeform: if it fails 'safe' on lynx etc. i'd stil consider to use it
asciilifeform: (i.e. defaults to old format)
billymg: asciilifeform: yeah, that part is no problem
asciilifeform tangentially, somewhat disappointed that no one has written any seriously improved logotron by nao ( no, not impressed at all w/ the php+awk hacks)
billymg: asciilifeform: what do you want the seriously improved logotron to be?
asciilifeform: billymg: say, a cl proggy w/ 0 lib deps
billymg: for the bot or the www portion?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-16 17:31:07 asciilifeform: this is probably a good time to point out that 1) asciilifeform did not make any attempt to preserve 'pip a la fossilized gentoo 2) when it dies, it dies, i will publish my existing set of logotron deps then, but no new py proggies
billymg: asciilifeform: does 0 deps mean can't use a database, or db must also be written from scratch?
verisimilitude: Be I the only one here who writes Common Lisp programs without others' libraries?
asciilifeform: billymg: can use a db over localsocket, neh.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: very easy if you dun need i/o, lol
billymg: so just no psycopg2
asciilifeform: and no 'flask', regexes, etc
billymg: so rewriting all of those as well
billymg: or at least the pieces needed
asciilifeform: and ideally more readable than mine, while on subj.
asciilifeform: billymg: i'm told py2.7 doesn't even build any longer on certain heathen systems.
asciilifeform: so it's a dead end, and i did warn people.
billymg: asciilifeform: why does it matter what builds on heathen systems?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's logger is what it is, in case anyone forgot, because it was made from contents of junk box, on literally 3day's notice.
asciilifeform: billymg: i made 0 effort to preserve a fossilized snapshot of the deps. or any simple mechanism to install'em.
billymg: asciilifeform: that strategy seems to have worked well enough for dulap gentoo, why not just save old version of flask and psycopg2
verisimilitude: I'll write a Common Lisp program for this in exchange for payment.
asciilifeform: billymg: it isn't that it's physically impossible to modify 'pip' etc. to do this. but i have not . (partly because not had time, but also would much rather not encourage folx to continue building houses in swamp)
billymg: asciilifeform: pip isn't needed though
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i dun think anyone presently tuned in has that kinda dough.
verisimilitude: As for Python, I recall being reviled by the ``Everything is a library someone else already wrote.'' model.
asciilifeform: billymg: potentially not. if you want to share your fossilization setup, i'll read.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i'm throwing an exception parsing that sentence
verisimilitude: As for Python, I recall being reviled by the ``Everything is a library someone else already wrote.'' development model.
asciilifeform: billymg: more generally , i'd like to see movement ~away~ from 'everything requires 10GB of fossilized ???' rather than ~towards~
verisimilitude: In some languages, everything is an object, or an array, and in Python everything is a library someone else already wrote.
billymg: asciilifeform: this i understand, and movement towards new silicon for running spherical lisp machine as well, but i don't see army of hands with spare time and resources for doing all of this
asciilifeform: billymg: imho 'cleaner www stack' aint a silicon-complete problem.
asciilifeform: (does not mean there is anyone with the time, even so)
snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-18 19:55:54 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.
trinque: billymg: regarding the "no one has written" problem, personally I'd rather you go make yourself independently wealthy, than write w/e additional artifact, if they were mutually exclusive.
asciilifeform: trinque: iirc he already ?
verisimilitude: Now asciilifeform and myself are the only two who really play at that low level, right?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: in re which ?
verisimilitude: The issue with me ever doing that is x86_64 is irredeemably ugly.
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-13#1036260 << I see this as a deeper problem than "guy picked up php/awk"
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-13 20:29:52 trinque: the former for obvious reasons, the latter because they're cramming the development into what free time they have
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i'ma come back to this.
asciilifeform: trinque: elaborate
trinque: works that are not shaped like current OSS hacks must grow atop a different surface than the OSS hacks grew
trinque: imho that surface is economic, tech subsequently
billymg: trinque: not sure what you mean
trinque: billymg: I mean you're employing the conceit of the republic that someone oughta show up and work for nothing.
billymg: trinque: ahhh. i wasn't the one who brought it up though, asciilifeform did
trinque: at any rate, isn't a critique aimed at an individual.
billymg: trinque: to which i replied, where are the hands? why not first fossilize and polish something that works before rewriting everything
billymg also doesn't write/grok at sufficiently low enough levels to undertake these tasks
trinque: because the problem is still "where hands"
asciilifeform not opposed to folx polishing oldies. so long as they understand that the floor might at some pt fall out from under'em, when e.g. can no longer find irons which boot asciilifeform's gentoo etc
trinque: yeah, this is what I'm getting at. trinque gives zero fucks about IRC because it's a dead world.
trinque: thus no further deedbot updates
asciilifeform: aha, exactly what i was alluding to re pythonisms
asciilifeform: yes, right now i have a box with x, y, z. and enuff spares to keep it going for decade or 2. but no intent to use the few spare hrs i have to build ~more~ artifacts which only work with earlier museum artifacts.
asciilifeform: it's rather like how i have a bolix box, but not insane enuff to publish proggies i wrote for it!
billymg: trinque: fwiw my working on the btc network crawler and new www to display obvious centralization of network is to attract more hands
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-09 15:01:20 billymg: and for me, just seeing that table sorted by len(peers) desc made it plainly, undeniably obvious that trb nodes are the only real nodes on the network
snsabot: (alethepedia) 2021-04-26 billymg: i also created a chan at #billymg a couple days ago, and i'm working on a website to do some recruiting (it will present itself as a more welcoming on-ramp to V and TRB than the logs), hopefully attract some of the not complete morons
asciilifeform: billymg: neat. potentially.
asciilifeform historically not champion re 'attract hands'
billymg: i know i'm not gonna be the guy who writes a new linux, or new tcp stack, etc. but hopefully i can at least find one or two people who can help with that
trinque: billymg: sounds super sensible
trinque: I am just challenging you in the tradition of the republic, and intend to continue
trinque: far too little arguing these days!
asciilifeform: ^ lolyes
billymg: trinque: lol fair enough
trinque: it's timely too; we appear headed for a massive casino crash. perhaps that knocks loose a few more sound money people from the communists.
asciilifeform: trinque: it's interesting to asciilifeform , even as spectator, how all the engines for damping btc-usd running 'redline'
asciilifeform: trinque: it aint a given, incidentally, that a crash bumps up exch rate. given as weak hands panic & dump (as in summer of '20)
asciilifeform: (panickers dump, but buyers do not necessarily proportionately materialize, they instead buy lead.
trinque: yeah, it doesn't take much to move the btc exchange rates, since most volume is leveraged bullshit or outright fabricated trading. I expect that a dump in e.g. S&P500 would send BTCUSD plummeting near-term.
asciilifeform: aha, iirc exactly this last july
trinque: er, swap the comma and period
trinque intends fully to buy when blood in the streets, as with all other BTC valleys
trinque: not nearly enough wailing yet
snsabot: (alethepedia) 2021-05-19 asciilifeform: thimbronion: occasionally (some of) the rats get off the boat. the unfortunate thing is that they always get back on.
trinque: sure, just like wallstreetbets is probably some hedge fund(s) herding the lemmings.
trinque: the exchanges work for their "prime brokerage" side now, so even more incentive to crash price for those customers.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-04-23 13:08:03 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack -- i suspect that ~nobody gives rat's arse re centralization of ~node~ net because no one can do a damn thing re centralization of ~hash~
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-19 14:38:09 billymg: trinque: fwiw my working on the btc network crawler and new www to display obvious centralization of network is to attract more hands
verisimilitude: So, ready to come back to that, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: x86? yes
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: yes it's ugly. but can rewrite the equation as e.g. 'would you rather eat 1mg or 500mg of kcn.'
asciilifeform: 0 aint on the menu.
verisimilitude: Considering the machines I own, and am buying, I've a different menu.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-19 14:36:55 asciilifeform: yes, right now i have a box with x, y, z. and enuff spares to keep it going for decade or 2. but no intent to use the few spare hrs i have to build ~more~ artifacts which only work with earlier museum artifacts.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-17 22:38:42 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: this aside -- 'yeelong' is an interesting box, and i tried for many yrs to get hold of one. but no longer, even if found one today, would be 'museum queen', would not want to leave the house with it -- say it gets stolen or rained into etc., where wouldja get another ?
verisimilitude: When my Pinebook arrives, I'll have an ARM.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: didja ever write asm for arm ? and , what, 'not ugly' ?!
verisimilitude: I've not yet, but it's at least less ugly.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: fwiw my 'pine' is gathering dust. my patience ran out after 2 minutes of 'pushed key, but cursor moves 5s later'
asciilifeform: (+ heathen linux with all the known cancers)
verisimilitude: Well, thanks again for recommending it.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i dun see how 'less ugly' at all. same 1000+ instrs., same variable length encoding, and -- ever worse than in x64 land -- massive nonstandardized space
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-19#1036955 This is purely a software issue, right?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-19 15:09:34 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: fwiw my 'pine' is gathering dust. my patience ran out after 2 minutes of 'pushed key, but cursor moves 5s later'
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i suspect. (tho the mouse does seem to pick up atmospheric noise or whatnot)
verisimilitude: Alright; I expect to play with the default system to see how bad it's, before replacement.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i imagine if yer standards are low enuff, you'll find it edible (presumably the orig. author did...)
verisimilitude: Considering I'm using a Lemote Yeeloong and my Thinkpad fan failed over one year back, yes.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: fan costs what, 5 $ ?
verisimilitude: It would be nice just to play video or music without skipping or reaching eighty degrees.
asciilifeform: ( or can't be arsed to open it ? takes, what, 10min ? it aint a crapple )
verisimilitude: The issue is it works if I don't stress it.
asciilifeform: why wouldja live that way ?
verisimilitude: It's been a wonderful analogy to computing as a whole for me.
asciilifeform: i dun get it. it's ~5 $ + ~10min.
verisimilitude: I see what I've put up with, and it begins to make some sense.
verisimilitude: I'd wanted to be less dependent on the Thinkpad anyway.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: do you have an auto ? and does it drag its rusted muffler behind it, and its bumper -- in front of it, as it rolls along on 4 flat tyres ?
verisimilitude: I had another machine just for WWW browsing and video, but it failed recently.
asciilifeform: lemme guess, this one also collected cockroach in the fan blades, and so written off ?
verisimilitude: No, I believe the charger failed and the battery exhausted.
asciilifeform: i'm reminded of the legend of the bedouin sheiks who , suddenly rich from petro concessions, bought mercedeses. and threw'em out in the desert whenever ran outta petrol. simply bought new one each time.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is not a sheik, and therefore actually maintains his irons.
verisimilitude: After the third or fourth Thinkpad repair, asciilifeform, I get tired of dealing with them.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: where didja get yours, so that 3/4 repairs? i dun think i had to open mine 1nce in past 5y
verisimilitude: ``Oh, this fan failed, that backlight failed, etc.''
asciilifeform: did clean it initially, it was of course already ~decade old then
verisimilitude: These were different models.
asciilifeform: my x60 still worx. (tho the chinese batteries last maybe 5-6 cycles, tops)
verisimilitude: I've not portrayed myself as glamorously as I prefer.
asciilifeform: hey, did imply that lappy is disposable to you, verisimilitude
verisimilitude: I'm not living in filth, there are no cockroaches, but I'm tired of repairing Thinkpads.
asciilifeform is tired of plenty of things, but.. still doin'em
verisimilitude: So when the fan died for no reason, and I did open and inspect it, I stopped caring because it still ran.
verisimilitude: I'd wanted to distribute my computing, and it was a good reason to do so.
verisimilitude: Considering what I'm accustomed to, a machine from the last five years will likely seem very fast.
asciilifeform: try, whynot.
verisimilitude: But yes, I've reflected on it and it's obscene what humans will cope with.
asciilifeform: in other lullies,
asciilifeform: 'jess(jess@freenode/staff/jess)- [Global Notice] Hi all. It feels like my moral responsibility to inform all users that administrative control of freenode and its user data will soon change hands, and I will be resigning from freenode staff effective immediately. It's been an honour to help you all.'
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-14 09:55:19 trinque: https://p.haavard.me/407 << lol, fleanode continues to rot.
trinque: so, what's malicious use of the NickServ database going to do?
asciilifeform: trinque: moar lulzily,
asciilifeform: 'ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has quit [Killed (grumble (My fellow staff so-called 'friends' are about to hand over account data to a non-staff member. If you care about your data, drop your NickServ account NOW before that happens.))]'
asciilifeform: ^ what's 'closing' yer acct supposed to do?
trinque: protect your privates apparently
verisimilitude: Well, plenty of fools reuse passwords.
asciilifeform: in what universe, lol
trinque: think of all the "unlogged" channels!11
asciilifeform: would be a++ hilarious if they 'accidentally' published the logs of 'unlogged'
verisimilitude: The only sad thing about this is if it remains boring.
asciilifeform: ftr if fleanode finally croaks tomorrow, readers are invited to read on asciilifeform's www where to find him, there's an ersatz box ready to go for this occasion.
verisimilitude: All of the cool kids have websites, yes.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: pretty sure erryone tuned in has a www.
asciilifeform: ( maybe gregorynyssa didn't ? )
verisimilitude: That's what I wrote; we're the cool kids.
trinque: supposedly the "buyer"
asciilifeform: lol dafuq's that
asciilifeform: clicked 'chat', got 'this is taking longer than it should, there might be connectivity issues' , lol
asciilifeform: very 'promising' start..
trinque: looks like shitty front for various low-effort honeypots
asciilifeform: even sadder than whatever the last thing was which 'bought fleanode'
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-18 11:55:08 asciilifeform: thimbronion: on the subj of 'gradual death of fleanode' -- for some yrs now it has been owned by nsa. most likely simply for the ease of hijacking simplistic orcish botnets which use irctronic command mechanism. erry once in a while they switch out the front company which 'owns' it.
trinque: yep, yawn
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-19#1037001 << lulzy wank btw.
asciilifeform: 'We are founding a new network with the same goals and ambitions: libera.chat.
asciilifeform: It is backed by a swedish non-profit which lets us hold the name,
asciilifeform: domain and various other assets to avoid a hostile corporate takeover.
asciilifeform: It allows us to continue to operate the network as unpaid, neutral volunteers.'
asciilifeform: hilarious 'washing' of nsa front.
asciilifeform: 'look, we're making a new, clean one!'
asciilifeform: 'what do you mean, exactly same thing as old'
asciilifeform: 'A contract in which christel, former head of staff, allegedly sold freenode, surfaced. And while I personally think that this would have neither included any servers or code or user data, since that did not belong to christel to sell, I am not a lawyer and apparently some of our volunteers got pressured very hard and their personal life could have been ruined easily should we have fought
asciilifeform: against this apparent contract.
asciilifeform: ^ 'apparently wife was a dog all along'
verisimilitude: I'm not familiar with that saying.
asciilifeform: 'The democratically elected heads of their respective teams, development, infrastructure, projects and communities were removed by force'
asciilifeform: ^ recall voting for'em ? cuz asciilifeform doesn't..
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it's an old #tism. i.e. if you somehow noticed 'only now' that wife was a dog, about whom does this say more, the dog, or you.
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-12-22 weevlos: andrew anglin
asciilifeform: or , for that matter, #t's. where there's a bunha folx who think they 'work together' etc but in actuality are shining the shoes of a sociopath, who, at the moment when most convenient for him, packs it.
verisimilitude: Let it be remembered that when I was insulted and told to ``read the logs'' before being able to write in his presence, I correctly saw the situation and lost interest until finding this channel.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: even now 99.9% of errything of interest, is in the old logs.
asciilifeform: i aint about to explain a subj. 9000+ times , that already explained in e.g. 2013.
verisimilitude: I'll read them when linked, but I'm not going to read them serially.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: even if you wanted to , would take rather long time, to 'read serially'.
asciilifeform: there's almost decade's worth.
verisimilitude: I've already decided I don't want a religion, and so don't read holy texts.
asciilifeform: could point out that closing eyes in a dark room does not make said room empty.
asciilifeform: (i.e. like it or not, you 'have religion')
asciilifeform: 'By the way, when he mentions "the board of Freenode", he really just means himself.' << lel, familiar, aint it.
verisimilitude: Opening them and seeing hallucinations brought by the lack of light doesn't make the room filled.
verisimilitude: Still, I'll rephrase.
trinque: verisimilitude: reading the logs wasn't solely a "him" thing, ftr.
trinque: there is as asciilifeform says nothing gained and much lost by rehashing the same things for novices endlessly.
verisimilitude: I'm already part of one loosely-organized Internet cult, and don't want for another.
trinque: (there's a place for it of course, and it's called school)
verisimilitude: It's better to distill these thoughts as articles, which is what I do.
trinque: I'd agree that "read the entire logs" does not scale, and in practice didn't.
verisimilitude: I've enough now I can often point others to them to spare myself.
trinque: sure, and you see much of this in the aforementioned logs, quoting existing works
asciilifeform will bbl
trinque: verisimilitude: I'll say it's a curious thing that apparently so many people lurked in #t if it was obviously a doomed cult.
verisimilitude: Isn't that sample bias; I'm the only one who didn't and yet is here to mention it, right?
verisimilitude: I didn't write I saw it as ``obviously a doomed cult'', just something I saw as a bad deal for me.
asciilifeform: btw, for anyone who doesn't know, this is what the 'volunteers' of fleanode historically volunteered .
snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-29 12:34:18 asciilifeform: at one time considered to host a fleanode noad in his rack. but then learned that they expect, for 100% phree, an ~entire~ 1u, w/ exclusive root, running whatever shitware, and offer absolutely nuffin in exchange
asciilifeform: i.e. was 100% centrally managed, and someone had master key. if the whines are to be believed, this someone sold it for btc to a craigwright-style d00d.
verisimilitude: I had a neat idea for how to secure security camera output sent over the network, where it only sent a small frame once per second or so: Using a one-time pad would work, so long as the camera be easy to periodically access; interference would be obvious as corruption in what should usually look about the same each time.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: at one pt asciilifeform had just such a camera going, lol. (won't say where..)
asciilifeform: wasn't erry sec., tho, that would've been (at the time) expensive.
asciilifeform coincidentally was rereading this ancient lul, arguably related. verisimilitude may find interesting. (warning:pdfism)
verisimilitude: Well, ``great minds think alike'' and all of that.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: that otp authenticates as well as secures (when used as-prescribed) is 1 of the ancient appeals of the thing.
verisimilitude: Reasonable authenticatation is just achieved by requiring a pattern occurs as agreed, right?
asciilifeform: even unreasonable , also, lol
verisimilitude: It could be anything from a header and footer to ``every pair of numbers agrees''.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: if 'reasonable' then it gotta be something that enemy cannot easily forge while modifying the rest of message
asciilifeform: (incl. by replaying valid but old msgs)
asciilifeform: in whole or in part.
verisimilitude: Yes, which is why the latter suggestion is good, eg AABBCCDD.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: what does this give you that simply using otp does not ?
verisimilitude: It's some protection against modification.
asciilifeform: someone who surreptitiously obtained a copy of the pad, can repeat this pattern also. someone who has not, cannot send any message that would decode to anything other than rubbish.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: a checksum/hash erry B bytes would give you similar effect (protect against random flips) and, notice, used even outside the context of crypto.
asciilifeform: cuz random bitflips do happen.
verisimilitude: For a security camera, just glancing at it should be fine.
asciilifeform: if you've the time..
verisimilitude: That also works.
verisimilitude: On one hand, I've gone roughly two months without mine RSS reader and usual WWW access, but on the other hand, that was probably good for me.