asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 12 nodes...
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.066s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.109s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.206s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.222s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.226s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.328s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.363s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.595s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)
trinque: whelp. I got proper adacore gnat to fucking build finally, outside the ave1 thing.
trinque: I had to move from Devuan to a newer Gentoo which already had the adacore thing in portage.
trinque: built fine, snagged patched sources from the gentoo work dir.
trinque: now I've got a fat pile of other dependencies that *don't* build on that gentoo
trinque: soon as you get one fucking thing tied down, another thing pops loose.
asciilifeform: trinque: pops loose << typical. congrats on the breakthrough tho
asciilifeform: trinque: when you get a chance, plox to list the 'other deps'
asciilifeform recently had been looking at the 'ada rts' and its variants (e.g. ave1's) with the aim of eventual 'iron' rts that actually builds stock ffa/peh.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-05 14:29:55 asciilifeform: idea being, single-task msdos-style os, bootable from <1MB storage (incl. rom, if preferred) that contains peh, simple text editor, speaks via rs232 port (incl. to FG) .
asciilifeform: ( ave1's, ftr, is missing several knobs which it is ~impossible to fully weasel out of using in a nontrivial proggy. in particular, ~local~ (vs propagated) exception handling ; i/o of integers ; and read() . )
trinque: asciilifeform: the knobs are missing from the built compiler?
trinque: are they enabled by ./configure flags?
asciilifeform: trinque: mno, this was strictly in the cut-down ada rts (as in ave1's 'zfp' example)
asciilifeform: gnat, unlike standard gcc, allows substitution of the standard lib when compiling. this way is possible to cut out the stock rts (which is massively bloated, and in fact rolls in libc -- in ave1's series of gnats, musl) and replace with, e.g., a simplified lib which invokes syscalls via asm, or in fact able to sit on raw irons, etc
asciilifeform: for yet-further ref -- glibcistic gnat rts weighs ~1MB; musltronic -- 300k; a theoretically minimal (per ffa) one would weight coupla kB.
asciilifeform: all of this is arguably because gcc's deadcoad elimination sucks balls (essentially no better than it was in 1990)
asciilifeform: (e.g. threadisms end up in a binary where proggy used 0 threadism, etc)
trinque: yeah, I'm asking where one'd point it at the slimmed RTS
trinque: looks like yes, configure flag:
trinque: asciilifeform: any reason to keep the fat RTS in tree then?
trinque: I'd like to be able to build e.g. vtools, though if that weren't to build, arguable that's what's broken.
asciilifeform: trinque: the 'fat' rts is the only public one atm which actually supports the whole ada-2012 lang
asciilifeform: 'slimmed' is prolly gonna end up being 'per proggy' for foreseeable future. e.g. ffa is even nao too 'fat' to build on ave1's cut-down rts, cuz it uses ...'Image , Ada.Sequential_IO, etc.
asciilifeform: or, e.g., nqb (my draft blox parser) uses streams, and in fact illustrates why one'd even want the knob in the lang to begin with, it is impossible to eat wildly variable-bitness heathen data structures simply&compactly w/out it
asciilifeform: or tasks -- various proggies use'em (simply i not happened to just yet, but expect to eventually)
asciilifeform: what ~would~ like is if all of these things could somehow be separated in such a way as not to pollute a build where they aint used. but this'd require as i understand a total 'reversing' of gcc...
asciilifeform: ... meanwhile, in other strange. supposed dirt leak from intel co, incl., again supposedly, ME boobytrap & other nsaware sources.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-21 11:28:38 asciilifeform: mats: whole thing is on dulap if you want it / have the disk space, lemme know.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-06#1018024 << this is correct, but not the whole story -- see ave1's example: gnat will only eat a rts if the latter is config'd correctly (there's a built-in manifest thing, and some linker diddling)
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-06 17:28:43 trinque: --RTS=...
asciilifeform: wb amberglint
amberglint: asciilifeform: I wanted to tell you about the Intel leak, but you already know that
amberglint: The original developers of Interlisp-D are trying to revive it right now
amberglint: Some of the objectives are... questionable though
asciilifeform: interesting. tho i'd imagine the original authors at this time already dead
asciilifeform: iirc there was a fairly complete emulator for msdos -- 'medley' -- but no (afaik) public src for it anywhere
asciilifeform has the (printed) manual for interlisp, but never extensively played with a working one
amberglint: the src is supposed to go to shithub soon
asciilifeform: theoretically interesting -- there were concepts in interlisp that never appeared in mit cadr + successors (bolix etc) -- e.g. the 'structure editor'
asciilifeform: sadly thing afaik mostly fossilized before 1980
amberglint: yeah, I've heard about this particular feature
amberglint: it had some DWIM stuff as well
amberglint: the emulator ran on SunOS and was developed by Fuji Xerox
asciilifeform: for reasons that are still not clear to me, interlisp afaik had ~0 commercial life
amberglint: afaik Xerox's workstation division was mismanaged even more badly than LMI
asciilifeform: xerox was even then a classic 'too big to fail' co., if even tried to sublicense the thing -- i'm not aware of the attempt
amberglint: Medley was spun-off into a separate company which didn't live very long
asciilifeform: prolly for same reason bolix's attempt to repackage their os for dec alpha flopped
asciilifeform: i.e. the irons of the time were simply not adequate for smooth emulator
asciilifeform: (smooth in the sense that users are not lured away by 'why not rewrite $proggy for native os')
asciilifeform suspects that the interlisp release will resemble mit's release of 'cadr' in 2010s -- 'too little, too late' -- but does intend to take a look at some pt
amberglint: At least it's a bit more advanced than the CADR
asciilifeform: almost certainly shares the main defect of it tho ( i.e. much of the cadr os is intimately tied up with the kludges required by period silicon )
snsabot: Logged on 2020-02-11 16:30:18 asciilifeform: 'cadr' was designed to be buildable with the off-the-shelf discrete semiconductors ('bitslice') of its day, and as a consequence extremely baroque. 3600 inherited this gnarl.
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-11-16 asciilifeform: cadr was a horrendous thing because designed around two tonnes of 74xxx
asciilifeform: ... meanwhile, had a look at the intel crapola. mostly junk, seems (binaries of various bios/modules), some docs, some sample mobo schematics. near as i can tell, 0 magic keys, and precious little in the way of src.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-06 18:06:37 asciilifeform: ... meanwhile, in other strange. supposed dirt leak from intel co, incl., again supposedly, ME boobytrap & other nsaware sources.
asciilifeform: will upload to dulap anyway, if mats, shinohai , anyone else in l1 interested.
asciilifeform: the little src present, all builds strictly on winblowz; but this is not surprise in light of the 2010s faux-opensores intel bios pubs.
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-08-06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-07#1516310 << on top of all of this, as if it were not enough: intel's bios crapolade, at least such as have been released or leaked, builds STRICTLY under winblowz. i shit thee not, MB of .bat.
asciilifeform: i suspect the only folx who'd win from reading this item, are the coreboot devs who still give rat's arse re compat. w/ intel boards. but i also suspect that it'll do'em 0 good , castrato idjits will 'studiously pretend not to have seen', rather like the 'reactos' devs with the w7 src leaks.
amberglint: "Kottmann also told us the archives passed to them were obtained from the partners-only design center: "As far as I am informed, the data I have was pretty much directly grabbed from the CDN for Intel's Resource and Design Center.""
asciilifeform for the most part gives very little shit re intel irons, either way. nao, a leak of e.g. amd's 'psp' boobytrap would be useful. but none to date.
asciilifeform: amberglint: near as i can tell, usg strategy re leaks in last ~decade has been 'leak gigatonnes of garbage, maybe somehow people will lose interest in leaks as a concept'
asciilifeform: the much-hyped snowden thing, incidentally, matches this picture. multi-GB of crapola, exactly 0 re cryptology.
amberglint: Nintendo afficionados got more lucky recently, someone leaked actual hardware src for the N64 console
asciilifeform not nintendo aficionado
asciilifeform: and iirc a 'run all games' emulator for n64 already existed 10+y ago, for that matter.
asciilifeform: so can't think of why even aficionados might care.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-06#1018071 << btw intel's (and similar circuses) 'nda-only docs' are avail. to 'over 9000' firms; ergo only lunatic would expect to find e.g. magic nsakey trigger for intel nics, ME, etc. in such place.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-06 20:14:43 amberglint: "Kottmann also told us the archives passed to them were obtained from the partners-only design center: "As far as I am informed, the data I have was pretty much directly grabbed from the CDN for Intel's Resource and Design Center.""
asciilifeform thought 'dun hurt to look' however
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2020/08/banco-central-del-uruguay-moves-to-begin-using-interest-rates-as-policy-tool-after-abandoning-practice-in-2013/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Banco Central del Uruguay Moves To Begin Using Interest Rates As Policy Tool After Abandoning Practice In 2013
asciilifeform: ... uploaded the pile o'shit to dulap.
asciilifeform: sha512:2eb83c86a0b67737ebc209dbf2271d7319fdcb795534329b1992c6aee7ef9e815c7b6b6c91fb7698f494ff23df96aea618413e8bd60d0c63cae2e9063aab09d4 , 17914488809 byte, for whoever gives a damn.
asciilifeform stuffed it all in one tar.gz
asciilifeform: fwiw the orig. torrent seems reasonably alive atm, so prolly redundant.
asciilifeform wonders if will live longenuff to see something ~actually interesting~ leaked. afaik 0 since 'ant catalogue' .