Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-10-03 | 2021-10-05 → ↓
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-03#1060616 << if some packets are lost, we would simply send more getdata requests.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-03 22:33:25 signpost: once you're talking about blasts of more than a single item, questions like "wat do when I lose something" come in, and imho the linked item points to a much better approach than reimplementing tcp shittily
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-03#1060620 << if peer gets request to fill 5k message gap, could decide to only send 10 or 50, and requester will eventually send more getdata requests
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-03 22:35:27 asciilifeform: not fond of multipacket answers to a 1-packet question, for the simple reason where 'am i expecting this packet?' gotta be O(1) resolvable
punkman: it does add unwanted complexity, will concede the point
punkman: in other complexities, what about compressing messages? would help avoid splitting of ~500 byte irc messages into 2 pest messages. Relevant: https://github.com/facebook/zstd#the-case-for-small-data-compression
signpost: pest seems like a thing to implement as simply as possible, then see what problems one actually has
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-04#1060632 << imho this is an absolutely terrible idea. introduced 'over9000' gnarly moving parts, for dubious gain. (i dunthink there has ever existed a compressor w/out vulns. at the very least, the basic 'zip bomb' afflicts them all. and go and try to calculate, w/out burning cpu, how much it costs to unzip a compressed turd..)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-04 03:39:49 punkman: in other complexities, what about compressing messages? would help avoid splitting of ~500 byte irc messages into 2 pest messages. Relevant: https://github.com/facebook/zstd#the-case-for-small-data-compression
asciilifeform: *introduces
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-04#1060629 << i'd really NOT like to re-create what imho is the single most dysfunctional aspect of trb, in pest...
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-04 01:35:59 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-03#1060620 << if peer gets request to fill 5k message gap, could decide to only send 10 or 50, and requester will eventually send more getdata requests
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $47682.26
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703521
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=703521
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.158s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=703521
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703521
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.220s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703521
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.403s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703521
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.838s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703521
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.246s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703521 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.199s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=703521 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.562s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703520
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
asciilifeform: !w probe 71.191.220.241 8333
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
asciilifeform: !w probe 71.191.220.241 8333
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.918s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=703522
thimbronion: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-03#1060597 << Not sure yet but possibly the issue is that alcuin is sending UDP packets from "ephemeral" ports. Still looking into how to configure the source address/port.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-03 12:37:21 thimbronion: punkman: the issue I'm seeing now is the port I get from recvfrom doesn't match the port bound to on the remote host. I suspect it's some local port.
jonsykkel: whats the reason for seprate signing and cipher keys?
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: why would you use the same key for both ?!!
asciilifeform didn't think this needed an explanation, but apparently it does...
jonsykkel: well im retarded
jonsykkel: this needs to be taken into account
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: if you give enemy outputs F1(P, K) and F2(P, K), where P is plaintext, K is a key, and F1/F2 are some functions, he can sometimes solve an equation and obtain P, or K, or both.
jonsykkel: ah i see
asciilifeform: by using same key and same plaintext in two different functions (in this case, hypothetically, hmac and serpent) you weaken both.
asciilifeform: is not trivial to demonstrate the concrete 'how', for given scheme; but easy to show that you've given the enemy info he has 0 business having
asciilifeform: (and would not have if you used K1 and K2, K1!=K2)
jonsykkel: makes sense
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060025 I forgot to mention days ago, it's so nice to be able to natively understand the Latin fragments I'm coming across.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-29 04:25:00 gregory5: dpb: was your church split off from another, or was it based on an ab-initio Scriptural reading (like Charles Taze Russell)?
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060407 We see how useful a factory is when it's missing small but necessary components, signpost.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-01 12:39:52 signpost: jokes with his wife that he's just a jar of cum with legs; she's a whole human factory.
verisimilitude: I've a valid complaint about Pest now.
verisimilitude: I won't bother finding the old message.
verisimilitude: I want to design a Pest implementation which stores all messages in a log; how am I to store the hearsay information; it seems this information is only revealed in the hypothetical IRC gateway; there shouldn't be information generated which can't later be regenerated.
verisimilitude: If I only store red packets, even copies, I can't do this.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you simply store the messages, along with count of relayers.
verisimilitude: That was my first thought, and it rounded the stored message size to 512, but the identities are also important.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: why do you want to store (outside of your personal irc console logs) info that doesn't need to be relayed to any pest peers ?
asciilifeform: if 'i want to store errything! which hits me' -- your irc client already does this.
verisimilitude: I want to have the entire conversation as a proper data structure which can be examined.
verisimilitude: I don't intend to use an IRC client for Pest, recall.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've no objections, but also don't see why this has to be in pest spec
asciilifeform: (which is about basics req'd for interoperability b/w stations, arguably)
verisimilitude: I'm voicing a concern before it becomes irreperable.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: why would it become irreparable ?
verisimilitude: I'm voicing a concern before it becomes too difficult to change in the face of later changes.
asciilifeform: can always go 'this thing being thrown away? let's save it'
verisimilitude: Sure, but that's not as clean as it could, and perhaps should, be.
verisimilitude: I'm also, of course, trying to help with Pest, by looking for problems.
asciilifeform appreciates
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: note, i dun disagree re 'save the relayers' etc. -- simply would prefer to avoid bloating the spec (and i fear is already excessive as it is)
verisimilitude: That compression idea earlier was laughable.
asciilifeform: seems that errybody has some pet pheature he'd like. but remember that it's a spec, it does not magically make the proggy appear..
verisimilitude: ``Look at what Facebook uses!''
asciilifeform: nfi if was joke or wat.
verisimilitude: On that note, this Facebook DNS shitshow is amusing.
asciilifeform: imho rather obvious that you DON'T want lzw etc in this thing, lol
asciilifeform: compression aint simply a 'no' but a 'lolno' per asciilifeform .
shinohai: Will "lolno" be in the spec?
shinohai can hope .....
verisimilitude: Well, I wouldn't call it a ``pet feature''; it's a valid concern, to be careful about what is being thrown away.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_draft.html#23-the-wot << should be "one or more handles" I think
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-03 22:33:42 signpost: has a WIP item that may bolt nicely to thimbronion's before long, in py
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-04 18:19:38 asciilifeform: imho rather obvious that you DON'T want lzw etc in this thing, lol
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