a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: but i must protest re your blogotron that a) whay do footnote anchors not load the footnote in a hoover overlay! and b) whay does it send no pingbacks ? (or does it, did trilema eat them ?)
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 22:33 diana_coman: spyked, fwiw I did not get the pingback from your blog either
spyked: more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: an' also, what writings predating no longer online you mean ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 03:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anything we want ot include in this month's s.nsa report ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:56 spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org
mircea_popescu: spyked that's what i mean. it\s very convenient when reading short footnotes
mircea_popescu: incidentally, either spyked or lobbes what do you need to make a complete gutenberg.org copy ? it IS going away, for one thing the initiator guy died and for the other thing, with their world-famous
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627828 there's no way they'll stay online all that long.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 23:50 mircea_popescu: which incidentally - has been read TODAY by more people than read ALL of marcel proust's works since the making of gutenberg.org
mircea_popescu: totally must-be-done tho, lest the BingoBoingo 's of the future end up missing out on their soulfood.
mircea_popescu: never take pantsuit useful sites for granted ; they're always useful momentarily and coincidentally, because pantsuit is always more pantsuit than anything else, and the only thing pantsuit is is stupid, thus therefore useless and annoying.
mircea_popescu: there's ALWAYS a denied middle in everything pantsuit does. shakespeare, it perceives it has no choice but to talk about, because a) "too big to fail" and b) whatever, "we'll '''antibody it away anyway".
mircea_popescu: but lardner, who ever talked of the most important american writer in the us ? and WHY NOT ?
mircea_popescu: "we'd much rather not all be jack keefe, and you know what ? if we never ever mention it it's just as good as if we actually weren't. also, don't say king coon, nigger or cripple."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform problem being, those are shockingly fucking stupid.
mircea_popescu: but yes, if one was aiming to alt-pantsuit jirinovski status, that's the right play.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:54 spyked: more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list.
mircea_popescu: you will be nonplussed to hear that my only mental model for php is this "lisp" thing they had for "especially bright kids to learn how to computer" bla bla back when i was a teen.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why specifically it was called lisp, but it was stupid and verbose and i fucking hated it.
mircea_popescu: the annoying part is, i hated it so much i don't even have any distinct memory sufficient to identify wtf it even was.
mircea_popescu: besides, derive was half-parens by weight, or more, and i liked derive fine.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what it was, but the only fucking time i threatened a wanna-be teacher with shooting in my life. dork was derealized enough to think i was kidding.
mircea_popescu: you know asciilifeform ... just cutting out the asm lisp compiler and putting it on loper may be a huge boon.
mircea_popescu: im sure eg spyked would love ot give it a gander -- maybe he thereby learns asm and becomes as smart as ave1 for one, and maybe it helps his adalisp for the other.
mircea_popescu: was the 90s thing that mulisp-xt or w/e, on the palm ?
a111: Logged on 2015-09-13 08:26 BingoBoingo: Oh, TI-92 arrived yesterday. Much larger than I imagined
mircea_popescu: hp made this tiny, "can't decide if laptop or pocket calculartor" item\
mircea_popescu: "DERMATOL está programado en muLISP-90 Version 7.00 (03/06/91) para IBM . PC MS-DOS de Soft Warehouse, Inc. Las funciones están definidas en base a la estructura y algoritmo de la red neuronal ." << no, item evidently DID exist.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-24 01:51 asciilifeform: i'll point out that mulisp (47kB) included bignum (again, in asm)
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 12:56 spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re report, ima put in the amateurships yea
a111: Logged on 2017-01-25 17:57 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, if phf or anybody else has a copy of mulisp-90, plz to post.
mircea_popescu: the amateurship ~lulz~, ie, look what we discovered and how usgtards ended up renamed.
hanbot: spyked: (snip) <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org << oh sweet, i'ma happily wade knee-deep in these again awhile.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it grew to at some point include a forum also, and i put a buncha cr pics from first trip there, which was teh ~only reason i considered over the years digging up archives, but was too lazy.
mircea_popescu: there's this place we visited then, that can not be found now anymore.
mircea_popescu: though in fairness, current crop entirely unsurpassed. much better camera, much better operator, mo' money...
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 17:24 diana_coman: trinque, it's possibly best to run your latest script and then hand over everything you need, fresh and clear? not a big issue otherwise to rummage and pack that dir but I don't even recall if I did not touch it further after that point when I sent the genesis patch so I'd rather not introduce artefacts
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 17:20 mircea_popescu: hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches).
hanbot: kk. scheduled for tomorrow evening.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not like the femstate's bankruptcy were discovered last tuesday.
mircea_popescu: i guess ima put this in the report, "lost cto to binge reading ancient html site"
mircea_popescu: btw, how's global warming been faring with the mini freeze they got last week ?
mircea_popescu: if everything were painted-on fixed, even women could be engineers. and immigrants.
mircea_popescu: i must say, it's pretty weird to read 13year old stuff and not find something to object to.
mircea_popescu: "You will lose the right to bear arms, not because they hate you, but because you aren't worth it, and you will lose the right to speak freely, not because they're affraid of it, but because you wouldn't know what to do with it if you had it. "
mircea_popescu: and then when he gets to romanian he's gonna want fain backups, and conceivably, wtf was
http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22dtng%22 and also, that one time when i sat down to read my collection of pif, what was in those large year-bound things, and could i perhaps dig up the "casino" roulette thing i made by hand to get all the other kids's turbo chewing gum "surprise" dollars, dms an' turk lyrasi
mircea_popescu: and so on. wtf, i can't dedicate my life to documenting my past life because then who's gonna produce the future.
mircea_popescu: well, let's put it this way : no later than at the chestnut tree cafe i shall.
hanbot: inb4 this becomes the "whisperers" thread all over again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but what if there's some secret sauce in there!
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892287 <-- yes pl0x, it would be much help. my biggest issue atm is having to do manual greps after <link rel="pingback" href="..." />, haven't been able yet to get something reliable that doesn't require parsing html
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:49 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892247 << see how comms trip you up ? had you ~said~ this much i'd have said very different things, because i entirely don't see the problem with a cl blogotron.
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892309 <-- funfact: /me reads plenty of asm on his saecular assignments, mostly to maintain & debug shit software stacks that crash in weird ways. haven't written any asm in a while tho, and dos asm especially has been a challenge last time I looked at it
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:59 mircea_popescu: im sure eg spyked would love ot give it a gander -- maybe he thereby learns asm and becomes as smart as ave1 for one, and maybe it helps his adalisp for the other.
mircea_popescu: "most people, when faced with a problem, will not investigate the cause of the problem, but will instead want to solve it because the problem is actually in the way of something more important than figuring out why something suddenly got in their way out of nowhere. if you are a programmer, you may reach for perl at this point, and perl can remove your problem. happy, you go on, but find another problem blocking your way, r
mircea_popescu: equiring more perl -- the perl programmer who veers off the road into the forest will get out of his car and cut down each and every tree that blocks his progress, then drive a few meters and repeat the whole process. whether he gets where he wanted to go or not is immaterial -- a perl programmer will happily keep moving forward and look busy. getting a perl programmer back on the road is a managerial responsibility, and it
mircea_popescu: can be very hard: the perl programmer is very good at solving his own problems and assure you that he's on the right track -- he looks like any other programmer who is stuck, and this happens to all of us, but the perl programmer is very different in one crucial capacity: the tool is causing the problems, and unlike other programmers who discover the cause of the problem sooner or later and try something else, perl is reward
mircea_popescu: ing the programmer with a very strong sense of control and accomplishment that a perl programmer does _not_ try something else."
mircea_popescu: this is remarkably fucking true about, you've guessed it, ~social media~.
mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken"
mircea_popescu: "a person's behavior is shaped by the rewards and the punishment he has received while not thinking about his own actions. few people habitually engage in the introspection necessary to break out of this "social programming" or decide to ignore the signals that other people send them, so this is a powerful mechanism for programming the unthinking masses. rewarding idiotic behavior and punishing smart behavior effectively bra
mircea_popescu: inwashes people, destroying their value systems and their trust in their own understanding and appreciation of the world they live in, but if you're very good at it, you can create a new world for them in which all of this makes sense.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken"
mircea_popescu: except i don't drink beer, but drink spirits. not whiskey, nor any other stoolbrandy, but nevertheless.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-29 17:34 asciilifeform: comments ( grep -P '^\s*--' ) turn out to be 1835 ln in libffa and 390 in ffacalc.
mircea_popescu: this "structured data" argument is good enough in the general, but consider what it'd have cost you to actually have all that pre-structured, rather than bash-prototype
mircea_popescu: "i can't do any ffa work because i'm working on a manner in which to do it that wouldn't produce the idle inquiry of loc 6 months in"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's the perfect tool for ONE job, as my recent header illustrates.
a111: Logged on 2015-09-02 22:09 mircea_popescu: there is clearly a problem here. ideal objects (such as software) are not comensurate with physical objects. this attempt to "engineer programs like screws" was a reasonable first hack at the novel an dunexpected problem,
a111: Logged on 2016-06-10 21:34 asciilifeform: imagine if programmers actually had to answer for their pollutants.
a111: Logged on 2014-10-10 00:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot << chuck moore (of 'forth' fame) seems kinda in favour of this. as am i. a kind of 'environmentalism' i've been advocating for many years (intellectual pollution doesn't blacken mere lungs. it makes everybody - stupider. measurably.)
diana_coman: trinque, I'll add it to the list; what should I pack and send exactly, once it's done?
deedbot: Would_you_mind_v voiced for 30 minutes.
verisimilitude: Alright; my key is registered. I suppose I'll just !!up myself next time, then.
trinque: verisimilitude: no reason not to give it a go now
verisimilitude: I like the idea of writing software that handles all failure modes correctly, as awful as modern systems make doing so.
verisimilitude: Common Lisp is nice, but I want to handle memory exhaustion well and also avoid using megabytes for programs that shouldn't need that much.
verisimilitude: There's the saying one shouldn't learn a language that doesn't change the way one thinks; I figured if I would learn at least one language with keyword-based syntax, strong static typing, a lack of advanced metaprogramming, among other qualities, that I should learn Ada.
verisimilitude: It's a nice language, so far, but I've yet to even finish learning all of it.
verisimilitude: As a Lisp programmer, what drew you to Ada, asciilifeform?
verisimilitude: Alright; I'll keep that in mind when I am finally able to study your FFA.
verisimilitude: The Ada program I have planned is in a similar way unconcerned with some of the more advanced features, because much of it is very concrete by now; it shouldn't even need to allocate memory until I have an undo and redo system in it.
verisimilitude: I'll get to have extra fun, because the system with my editor is different from the system with the GNAT.
verisimilitude: I'm currently using GuixSD and GNAT isn't available at all, is what I mean.
verisimilitude: When I did look into building GNAT from source, I was told in the documentation I'd already need a working GNAT; does ave1's avoid this? Then again, I suppose I could just use the GNAT I alread have on this other machine for that, if it became too inconvenient to use both.
verisimilitude: I'll be using Ada to build the practical, robust, simpler, and easy-to-distribute implementation of my machine code development tool, perhaps ironically enough.
trinque: asciilifeform: the lack of a binary-reproducible gcc really puckers when considering how to write an ebuild for ave1's gcc
trinque: considering a process that involves "bolt your hand-built gcc here" and then it rebuilds
trinque: asciilifeform: yep, I eagerly await it
trinque: yep, already need working vtools to run the bootstrapper, so it's not as if there isn't a list of requirements for build env
verisimilitude: That's exactly the approach I've been wanting to bring about, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: It's nice to even imagine having something that simply is and doesn't require building at all.
verisimilitude: Sure; even though it's only a thought I've made little progress towards at the moment, care for a light description of how I'd do it for a Common Lisp?
verisimilitude: I've had or seen a number of discussions concerning such high-level machines with C programmers and whatnot. It's comedic. A C programmer will be the first to prove how type-checking in hardware and other things most assuredly result in some minute loss of efficiency or power or this or that and so is bad, but then turn around and discuss how brilliant the zero-terminated string is and how it's not that inefficient.
verisimilitude: Let's seque to a related topic: What do you think of the Suckless crowd, asciilifeform? I read their mailing list and it's interesting to see how everything UNIX already provides is good and natural and how anything that violates the sacred tenants whatsoever is evil and bloat.
verisimilitude: I'll give credit to st, which is a decent terminal emulator, but I'm not impressed with Suckless in general. They're recently combating a bug with some X font nonsense caused by stupid Unicode glyphs; their solution is to stop using the X font nonsense entirely, which will apparently cause its own issues.
verisimilitude: I've long thought it's reasonable to exert great effort to make a system perfect, where possible; it's the ideal, but maybe not practical. Perhaps the more interesting question is when to stop when you exert so much effort, but have something that can never be made perfect, by design.
verisimilitude: We all have different ideas of perfection; you could just have it include this.
verisimilitude: Sure; my system I have in mind to make as perfect as I can certainly fits in a normal-sized head, or should.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:43 asciilifeform: if you need a 'proof system' to prove $assertion, you have NOT proven it. not to me.
mircea_popescu shall actually write that report, get to log in a minute.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile some serious fucking breakage occured over here wtf.
verisimilitude: Well, as much as one can on IRC over a short time, anyway.
verisimilitude: I'm not certain just reading loper-os.org over a few years counts as lurking, but alright.
mircea_popescu: suppose you move over to #asciilifeform then ? because EXACTLY as the topic says, if you don't know where you are, you shouldn't be here.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other lulz, "Medical uses Varenicline is used for smoking cessation. A meta-analysis found that less than 20% of people treated with varenicline remain abstinent from smoking at one year."
mircea_popescu: funny thing is, 20% "success rate" drug is FDA approved, "only effective treatment"
mircea_popescu: anyway, cocaine much better p. universalis than say radithor.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:38 mircea_popescu: incidentally, either spyked or lobbes what do you need to make a complete gutenberg.org copy ? it IS going away, for one thing the initiator guy died and for the other thing, with their world-famous
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627828 there's no way they'll stay online all that long.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-02 03:49 mats: i wonder if lobbes has a portal where i can feed, say, 2k urls for archival?
lobbes is a day or so behind on logs, goes to continue catching up
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 22:58 asciilifeform: hm where was that mircea_popescu piece re the magick furniture..
BingoBoingo: !Xbuy 610mn 82 2k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien)
auctionbot: Buy order # 1037 created by BingoBoingo: 2k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) Opening: 610mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-08 02:11:49.889189 UTC (81 hours)