asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $43258.63
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 14 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718823
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.118s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718823
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718823 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.304s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718421
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.328s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718580
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.646s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.488s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718823
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073129 << well it aint hyperinflating. ru runs on moar old-fashioned 'eastern despotism' rather than west reich's printola firehose.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 23:43:50 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072983 << even ruble inflation is supposedly lower than US atm.
asciilifeform: (phunphakt: in ru 'free & clear' home ownership rate is ~90%.)
asciilifeform: granted, the typical owned property is a 2-3room flat, not palace.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073133 << imho attempts to make 'bitcoin w/ cheaper tx' mechanically are wrongheaded ('you get whatcha pay for') and the Right Thing solution is informal (i.e. wotronic) systems
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 23:47:06 signpost: a "credible threat" to pay is as good as settlement if done correctly, counterparties can ratchet forward signed proposals on a disbursement of multisig address for a long time.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 20:07:29 asciilifeform: the 'solution' to 'fees high', if one insists on 'solving', is for there to be over9000 signpost-style wot walletrons.
asciilifeform: signpost's wallet was a++ example in prolly moar ways than was obv. at the time -- for instance, our drowned nutter was rather fond of trashy subscription www gamez, and asciilifeform bought his subscriptions (w/ paypalisms), ate coin via signpost's wallet, worked a++ and 'ecologically clean'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073137 << most powerful 'tech' there ever was.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 23:51:06 signpost: honor's powerful technology
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073140 << fwiw domestically they solved opium in the old-fashioned eastern despotism way -- heads-off
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 23:56:16 signpost: has considered that chinese fentanyl, meth, etc is in a confucian paternalistic way doing us a favor, in exactly this regard.
billymg: i enjoyed the reading the discussion last night. imo the elephant in the room with 'wot-powered layer 2' is that, according to reich law at least, it is totally illegal. iirc this is the reason signpost shut down the deedbot wallet
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-15 10:03:38 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073133 << imho attempts to make 'bitcoin w/ cheaper tx' mechanically are wrongheaded ('you get whatcha pay for') and the Right Thing solution is informal (i.e. wotronic) systems
asciilifeform: billymg: justabout errything worth doing with btc is 100% reich-illegal.
billymg: asciilifeform: right, aware
asciilifeform: even things not worth doing. e.g. run cpu miner for a year, mine a satoshi's worth, yer an outlaw unless you reported 'gain'
asciilifeform: 'illegal integers'(tm)(r). aint just for 1337 w4r3z anymoar!
asciilifeform: in fact the whole pretense that there are reich.permitted activities worth doing with bitcoin is lulzy.
asciilifeform: imho ~whole point of bothering with the extremely gnarly rube goldberg apparatus is to piss on the reich in various ways.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 14:22:28 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik the only presently effective snoopage happens at the direct gox level
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-17 19:39:26 asciilifeform: for instance, afaik 100% of 'illicit exchange man' arrests to date, were 'controlled buys' a la dope. i.e. intrinsically impossible in a solid wot context.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-17 19:41:37 asciilifeform: ( usg tradition moar or less ~requires~ a 'controlled buy', i.e. executed by a dedicated stoolie, to convict a contrabandist. and not merely 'd00d admitted on his www that he once sold a bitcoin'. e.g. mp admitted that he once killed and ate a man, but observe that no one tried to arrest him for it )
asciilifeform rewriting large chunk of spec, will bbl
mats: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073124 << i think of usg and ccp as separate pyramids
mats: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1073140 << the problem with this kind of thinking is that the new meth literally induces mental illness, and quickly, it is a completely next level social contagion compared to opis and fent. the atlantic article is a long read, but worth it
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 23:56:16 signpost: has considered that chinese fentanyl, meth, etc is in a confucian paternalistic way doing us a favor, in exactly this regard.
mats: d-meth abuse isn't really treatable in the same manner, rehab is even more ineffective, and people are permanently changed after a handful of uses
mats: >Treating them was daunting. Despite years of research, science has found no equivalent of methadone or Suboxone to help subdue meth cravings and allow people addicted to the drug a chance to break from it and begin repairing their life. And, like many others I spoke with, Jobe found that the human connection essential to successful drug treatment was almost impossible to establish. “It takes longer for them to actually be here
mats: mentally,” Jobe said. “Before, we didn’t keep anybody more than nine months. Now we’re running up to 14 months, because it’s not until six or nine months that we finally find out who we got.” Some can’t remember their life before jail. “It’s not unusual for them to ask what they were found guilty of and sentenced to,” she said.
signpost: yeah, I can see how this is like being flooded by refugees if they linger rather than die.
signpost: "Portland, Oregon, began seeing the flood of meth around 2013." << I got to see the rapid decay of portland first hand while living there.
signpost: "Until we begin to look out for the most vulnerable among us, there's no reason to expect them to abate." << figured it was going to close with something like this.
signpost: imho the blunter and more realistic rendering is that a peasantry isn't capable of deciding its own use, and the american answer has for a generation or two been "nothing".
signpost: not a bad article, but the culture for which it was written is incapable of making the decisions that would solve this problem.
whaack: howdy signpost
signpost: hey whaack, how goes?
whaack: in trbexplorer news i think i'm going to wrap up with what i have now, noteable missing features from the genesis will be : a well tested push tx, up-to-date blocks (trbexplorer currently sits 2 blocks behind the tip, which is dangerously close, given that all reorgs are manual, and atm there is not even a system to detect for reorgs), and a system for viewing transactions in the mempool
whaack: signpost: it's alright, but my rsi has been flaring up a bit (better than yesterday, but overall on a downward trend) and it is hot here today, so the discomfort level is pretty high
signpost: sucks, iirc you're a guitar player too eh?
whaack: yeah, and that's what brought back the flares
signpost has had to put the thing down now and again.
whaack: i was doing quite well, i would say 80% pain reduction, and i started playing again
signpost: I put pretty light strings on the strat, fun for bends etc too
whaack: the pain from playing the guitar comes the day after, while i was playing i felt a little discomfort but it was very minimal
whaack: i use medium tension nylon strings
whaack: on another topic, i met a guy who is setting up a "boutique" btc miing operation in CR
signpost: a hashrate-for-rent sort of thing?
whaack: yeah, idk yet if he's doing the small PMB game or if he's just selling a datahouse for a miner or what
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-15#1073207 <<< If you aren't using Ernie Ball Slinky Strings (tm) on yer strat, are you really playing?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-15 15:36:44 signpost: I put pretty light strings on the strat, fun for bends etc too
whaack: i have the alergic 'it's a scam' response to mining operations, i once threw $300 in the fire for a PMB when i first learned about bitcoin
whaack: they gave me drops of satoshi and then cut off the faucet
whaack: no idea to ever know if they actually had machines
signpost: shinohai: been doing those slinky cobalt strings
signpost: they have this sort of shimmer to them I like
signpost: whaack: yeah, I figure just buy btc directly with the money
signpost: I'd only get involved with mining if I were one of the owners of the mine, and even then only if I also had an under-market electricity connection
whaack: signpost: i am intersted in being a part of a mien where the owner is in my L1 WOT and as a cohort the mine is able to produce 1 block per year, as an independent pool
thimbronion: successfully compiled smalpest
whaack: thimbronion: grats, but what is smalpest
signpost: jonsykkel's impl
thimbronion: jonsykkel's pestron
whaack: ah great
signpost: whaack: and yeah, I can see the benefits of wot being able to squeeze out own blox now and then
whaack: signpost: this may be a way more interesting idea when the price of btc goes up relative to the block reward
whaack: err by way more interesting i mean way more economically feasible
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-15#1073190 << can't resist to ask, tho : given that d is the bioactive isomer, why would columned meth have such supposedly spectacularly diff effect from 2x dose of racemic ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-15 13:17:34 mats: d-meth abuse isn't really treatable in the same manner, rehab is even more ineffective, and people are permanently changed after a handful of uses
asciilifeform: ( l does ~0 other than unstuff the nose; at one pt was even sold otc in usa, asciilifeform recalls seeing it on shelf )
asciilifeform paging ghost of laddel!111
asciilifeform: !q seen-anywhere gabriel_laddel
asciilifeform: mats: possib. moar interesting aspect is that meth is a performance dope, and in some professions afaik not entirely 'optional' (e.g. long-haul trucking). prolly explains some of the 'difficulty of kicking'
asciilifeform: the 'permanently changed' thing may even be that the eater (an overworked 'blue collar') simply realizes that 'yes it is possible to be awake'
asciilifeform: sorta like how 1 reason why opiates mega-phenomenon in usa is that large % of population has permanent pain all over body from decades w/out access to medical attn
asciilifeform: they take a pill and 'hey it is possible to not be in pain'. cure that.
signpost suspects working multiple jobs is indeed the "gateway" to uppers for many, or jobs with long hours, yes
signpost: pleb gets knocked from two jobs to three to stay alive, finds crank
signpost: helps also with the void of meaninglessness of no job
signpost hasn't gotten mad at graphviz yet
verisimilitude: I'm to understand using deedbot was a way of getting a promise of coins, without the need to send them yet, right?
verisimilitude: How is this different from ``hammering in nails with a microscope'', asciilifeform?
verisimilitude: If trust be the answer, how's that different from those investors in the article, besides trusting the wrong person?
whaack: verisimilitude: what article are you referring to?
signpost: verisimilitude: "getting a promise of coins" is a bizarre definition of an invoicing system
signpost: but yes, I suppose that's one way of looking at it.
signpost: please excuse while I update ratings.
signpost: !!v 4F292A7AAC8EB262DA3DAA0B702BA1339582BBDC502D919EC410D81E701289D3
deedbot: signpost rated adlai 2 << old-timer lisper
signpost: !!v 1548670A39F6C57E6A94EA47FA8926FAA0DF9804357705FF1DED2A76DB33E716
deedbot: signpost updated rating of asciilifeform from 1 to 5 << honorable member of former republic, writes at loper-os.org, ideological inspiration to many of us, inventor of pest protocol and author of P
signpost: !!v 26CFB5F50022934F1507AC5FA7DEC7B9AB255875C24DF5474C5E67DE82864E4E
deedbot: signpost rated billymg 3 << competent www dev, writes at billymg.com, runs logs.bitdash.io
signpost: !!v 38F4DB4537BBB67478B1FF6BDF623F7B199B540A551B1CF8D2240982F7505EEA
deedbot: signpost updated rating of BingoBoingo from 1 to 4 << honorable member of the former republic. escaped the reich before most.
signpost: !!v 36052397816FB790CE042ECF93C8B25873C9009C853109CAE72DAD1395226731
deedbot: signpost rated cgra 2 << FFA and TRB work.
signpost: !!v 6DB040667298D662B7CD665FCA00208C0B3CEBE954D37FA7D8AA9C52C50411D0
deedbot: signpost rated danielpbarron 2 << old timer, honorable, if one-dimensional these days.
signpost: !!v 32B26FDB61DB8B6469AF7CB07E3AFD4B0710D1C13B19829D0D6447F190251B6B
signpost: !!v C049A6672E5EB17DA836BFA610D78EB535D30A6766DD52D37259D8036C4BBEE4
deedbot: signpost updated rating of mats from 1 to 2 << old-timer
signpost: !!v 8A406421435EA0F9BC425E1634519F1AF6AF0488C9E60844BF1B2C2F6B47A201
deedbot: signpost rated mod6 4 << honorable member of the former republic, much work on TRB.
signpost: !!v 47C70D39BBA6607FBB8A9FFB8372D937380FD86D8D35FF2D44B3459F4D8C0809
deedbot: signpost rated PeterL 2 << old-timer
signpost: !!v C9969F0D75E060F40703AE9575B2D9F1451DDC6094E2CF7B85509AD874AD72D0
deedbot: signpost rated shinohai 3 << republican old-timer and once writer for qntra
signpost: !!v 78A86A684F3714BA601CA1EB3157AA38624C8AE35969F3DEB6E6F7AE1497BF71
deedbot: signpost rated verisimilitude 2 << author of verisimilitudes.net
signpost: !!v C7B28B5350F123F2D81EE2E0F028865B4A66A0CC81DDC872ECFD567C59BF4323
deedbot: signpost updated rating of whaack from 1 to 3 << old-timer, author of ztkfg.com, ongoing work on block explorer
verisimilitude: Know I'm pleased with my rating.
verisimilitude: Now that I've spent a few years here, I really should generate a better key and rate you.
whaack: verisimilitude: yeah i don't see your point re deedbot wallet being related to a poor use of bitcoin, i think every1 using the wallet knew exactly the risk they were taking on by having signpost be their counterparty, yes his service is the same as a 'webwallet' but it's a webwallet where we had the ceo in our l1 and we used for a tiny portion of our coins.
signpost: feel free to send me a signature with the old key of new and I'll update.
verisimilitude: I've an old Thinkpad, which should be free from the Intel ME, that I can use.
verisimilitude: I just need to take it apart and remove its wireless hardware first, and then install a decent GNU/Linux on it.
verisimilitude: So it's what, hammering in nails with a ruler instead, whaack?
signpost: might as well gut it of speakers, mic, camera, etc while in there
signpost: verisimilitude: perhaps macroexpand. do you mean that it's working around flaws in bitcoin to use such a system?
verisimilitude: No; I simply saw similarities.
signpost: considering block size, regardless of what one chooses at the beginning, one can always imagine ways to increase transaction throughput such that it's insufficient.
signpost: one can either bloat block size such that it impacts decentralization or permit systems which invest trust in a particular operator.
signpost: I won't say a third doesn't exist, but if it does, has not been invented.
asciilifeform wouldn't 'hold breath waiting' for the invention of a train where 'errybody can ride whenever they feel like, all at the same time, for 0 cost'
asciilifeform: y'wouldn't ~want~ to ride that train, even if it were there.
asciilifeform: catching ride in friend's benz -- yes, is wat deedbotwallet was. worked a++.
whaack: afternoon asciilifeform
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it was used largely for small tx, i.e. coupla bitcents, where makes 0 sense to pony up tx fee that'd dwarf the payload
whaack: how did redraft of spec go
asciilifeform: wb whaack
asciilifeform: still didn't get to it, lol, moving crates in truck etc
whaack: nice to do work that's not at the computer, maybe?
asciilifeform: would be nicer not in the frost but what can do
whaack: heh enjoy
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG thimbronion , jonsykkel , et al : reworked section 4 with massively simplified algorithm. q's/comments invited.
asciilifeform: if implemented correctly, oughta perma-solve all dedupe problems nao & 4evah.
asciilifeform will give folx time to comment, then cut a 0xFB patch some time tomorrow evening.
jonsykkel: cool, will read after sleep
asciilifeform simplified further.