Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2021-09-01 | 2021-09-03 →
signpost: thimbronion: appears to work! at least, I'm in an IRC client connected to the thing.
signpost: but I can't see you if you're connected.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-31 23:04:48 asciilifeform: signpost: i'd nod, but e.g. cgra in fact parachuted straight from mars with not 1 but 2 ffa bugs in pocket
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-01 15:13:48 billymg: asciilifeform, shinohai: this version of chromium finally built on my dbus/systemd-free gentoo. the solution was to comment out the musl related patches in the ebuild and set the -system-icu USE flag. i'm a bit embarrassed that i didn't try commenting out the musl patches sooner since i'm not on a musl build but
shinohai: In other news, building a fg was too hard for raw_avocado but made this instead:
thimbronion: signpost: I can see in my logs that you joined #alcuin. I was in a different chan. I'm now in #alcuin.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 23:14:17 asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'tis funny, this is possibly the 1st case on asciilifeform's watch where proggy outran spec project !
pete_rizzo_: Cardboard confirmed
shinohai: pete_rizzo_: Have you noticed your IQ dropping any since visiting that blog?
shinohai: (My favourite from above lined shit? "if you’re booing Erik Voorhees,ii how badly have you lost the plot?")
asciilifeform: lol loox like his www fell down
shinohai: Prolly runs on the mETHereum internet computer now.
asciilifeform: shinohai: shows me a 'godaddy' eggog
asciilifeform: << geigers are by far not the worst way for makeshift rng (supposing you debias correctly and don't try to pretend that it's good for multi-kB/s somehow -- it aint, not even at chernobyl, on acct of tube deadtime)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-02 08:49:27 shinohai: In other news, building a fg was too hard for raw_avocado but made this instead:
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-20 18:25:37 asciilifeform: ( and asciilifeform realizes that 100% of folx who traditionally care about fast pulse, use PMTs. but i rejected'em for same reason as rejected geigers -- they require HV, which requires oscillators; and they ~age~ detectably, which is unacceptable in rng )
shinohai: I got twatter DM from him about it being painfully slow but have not yet responded, very busy morning here so if he wants to discuss should show up here where I can review logs.
asciilifeform: shinohai: the linked page doesn't even mention wtf it was he did to go from geiger clicks to rng output
shinohai: Nah I saw nothing but a raspi and an altoids tin with a radioactive sticker on it.
asciilifeform: soo most likely 'sumthing off shithub, dunno what it was'
shinohai: (Like did not even say if he did diehard tests afaict)
shinohai will bbiab
signpost: thimbronion's item works! need moar testers to get a proper graph of connections going to test further
signpost: asciilifeform: I will shoot you a peer stanza for my node shortly
thestringpuller: I guess pete_d lost his mind after huffing too much ether.
thestringpuller: Or rather a man made of cardboard blows with the wind or some other deep proverb.
shinohai: wb PeterL
PeterL: oh hi
shinohai: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $49722.93
asciilifeform: wb PeterL
asciilifeform: signpost, thimbronion : ty, will be interesting to test. the real 'stress' will be when 20+ folx in one net, then deduplicator properly earns its pay
asciilifeform still not finished essay re algo! tho thimbronion in fact telepathed ~90% of it !
asciilifeform: << rather, lost what small contact had with reality when inherited coupla megabux.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-02 11:38:55 thestringpuller: I guess pete_d lost his mind after huffing too much ether.
asciilifeform: it's rather reminiscent of old horror stories, starting from kafka's metamorphosis, with gigantic insects. normal-sized roach won't surprise anyone, but scale it up 1000x!
PeterL: thimbronion: the alcuin-9995.tag.gz does not seem to match what you get by following the patches, did you put the wrong file there?
signpost: megabux aint what they used to be. people need to calm down.
signpost snagged a few and still feels poor
thimbronion: PeterL: Hmm. I will have to investigate this. Honestly I'm not sure if those patches are going to be around long term. I was hoping to just toss them and create a genesis that is compatible with asciilifeform's standard is published.
asciilifeform: signpost: megabuck -- 2-3y of keeping lights on in torture room
thimbronion: *when it is published
signpost: asciilifeform: that's why I'm going rural. getting out of the housing bubble while I can still arbitrage the bubblehouse into acreage and brick.
thimbronion: PeterL: curious - you seem to prefer the patches to using a tar. Is that because you're interested in seeing exactly what changed since the last release? I'm still learning about how to publish with V. For example, when trb was genesised, it worked. As for alcuin, this is not really the case - it was an extremely minimal prototype that didn't have any of the critical
thimbronion: features. Not clear that it was worth a genesis.
signpost: yes, seeing what changed is exactly the reason.
PeterL: well, I was just grabbing the tar so as to have all the latest, but it seemed like it was missing something so I went through the patches to be sure
PeterL: the tar does not have the testnet, for example
PeterL: having v also helps with making sure that patches get applied in the correct order
thimbronion: PeterL: ah ok ty will fix re: testnet being excluided from the tar.
signpost: yeah, was chatting with thimbronion about this on alcuin. imho the "someone will attach car battery to my nuts if I sign something unbefitting the gods"
signpost: note why signing and what's wrong with it in comments or wherever appropriate, but sign.
signpost: this hesitance to use the tooling doesn't serve anything.
PeterL: for a few patches, manual is fine. but as more patches pile up, it is really nice to have that automation
PeterL: in the example testnet you have the same local_secret for both other nodes, but in real use you would use a different local_secret for each peer, yes?
thimbronion: PeterL: yes
PeterL: Is there any limit on the length of the secret?
signpost: thimbronion: secrets should be unique for each remote too eh?
thimbronion: signpost: yes
signpost: just wanted to clarify for PeterL since he only mentioned local
PeterL: oh, I had assumed each remote would be unique since those are generated by the other peer, right?
thimbronion: PeterL: there is a limit on the size of the key used by serpent, but the secret used to create the key could be hashed I suppose so there would be no limit in that case.
thimbronion: PeterL: you could individually generate and swap or one party could generate both and share.
thimbronion: But in either case it wouldn't make sense to use the same key anywhere.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: in asciilifeform's algo, incoming packets are identified solely by which hmac key they verify by. so peers in fact req'd to have distinct keys.
asciilifeform: ( the originator's ip is used strictly to decide where to send replies to; the one from the most recently-received packet for that given key, is used )
thimbronion: asciilifeform: actually yes - I use a similar technique - first key that decrypts matches.
asciilifeform not read thimbronion's yet
asciilifeform: so then thimbronion also req's unique keys to operate.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: yep.
billymg: signpost: re: rural, what made you choose northeast as opposed to other US locations? also if you ever find the time to blog about the homesteading i'd really like to read
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-01 16:26:31 signpost: solar panels, canning, etc., even has a wife on his side in this project.
billymg now has chicken coop with 20 some chickens, first dip of toes into self sufficiency
signpost: yeah, I'm going to get back to my blog in time.
signpost: pretty cool re: chickens!
signpost: billymg: I have a personal connection to the area, lots of family there.
asciilifeform has neighbour who started with 2-3 chicken at a time, now dozens
asciilifeform: (the item sold in shops resembles chicken less and less, and so growing'em yerself becoming 'mainstream' as result)
signpost: yeah, horribly mangled mutants that can barely (if at all) stand.
signpost: billymg: I stopped blogging because I was tired of yelling into a void. will start when I have what to say.
PeterL: running alcuin testnet, and I got an error, Exception while attempting to encode message: 'key not a multiple of 4'
signpost: coupla gents pushing the p2p stuff forward would be ample "to whom to say", certainly.
billymg: signpost: makes sense re: NE, my US family is all in alfistan and they all love big brother so not the best allies in these apocalyptic times
billymg: asciilifeform: the taste of the backyard chickens is so much better too, like different type of meat altogether
signpost: also just that they're freshly dead.
signpost doesn't raise 'em but goes to farmers markets to get the freshly deaded ones.
billymg: signpost: ah true, probably has a lot to do with the flavor too
asciilifeform: signpost: indeed the market ones 'almost different species'
thimbronion: PeterL: I suspect your secret is too long. Alcuin will pad the key if it's too short, but the case where it's too long is not handled. I should update it to just hash the secret.
signpost: eh, I dunno about should
signpost: why depend on a hash you didn't need to?
asciilifeform: seekrit oughta simply be a 256b rng turd in base64
thimbronion: signpost: good point - not clear what extra length gets you if it's hashed.
asciilifeform: e.g. dd iflag=fullblock status=none if=/dev/ttyUSB0 bs=1 count=32 | hexdump -ve '1/1 "%.2x"'
asciilifeform: ^ FG example
signpost: thing should just demand what it oughta have and reject all other values.
signpost: loudly and early
signpost: "fuck you, give me precisely this many bits"
asciilifeform: if somebody insists on storing it 'in head' as a 'human' string, let him hash on own end
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: when will phuctor return?
thestringpuller: before jesus I hope
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-24 12:41:30 asciilifeform: << likely before end of summer.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-30 16:23:38 asciilifeform: signpost: 'time problem' in fact in past yr got ~substantially worse~ for asciilifeform
thestringpuller: shinohai: get #freeasciilifeform trending on twitter
shinohai: thestringpuller: lol
thestringpuller: look, i'm just saying asciilifeform deserves to be free, not kept in captivity
thimbronion: many folks live free here in cali under the overpass a few blocks over.
thestringpuller: i've considered homeless...i mean van life...before
thestringpuller: but the story arc of gabriel_laddel never concluded from what I read in the logs
thimbronion: lemme send him an email and see if he replies...
asciilifeform strongly suspects laddel is dead
asciilifeform not particularly interested in laddel-style 'freedom' ftr
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-30 16:43:49 asciilifeform: the other pt was that freedom can be said to come in '-' and '+' sign bits. the '-' is what folx normally focus on when fantasizing escape from usg and similar. and in some places relatively easy to come by. but to combine with '+' is much harder proposition. no gigabit fiber in zimbabwe, no one will set yer broken legs in antarctica.
PeterL: << That goes back to my original question: in it's current state, what is "too long"?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-02 14:04:26 thimbronion: PeterL: I suspect your secret is too long. Alcuin will pad the key if it's too short, but the case where it's too long is not handled. I should update it to just hash the secret.
asciilifeform: toolong -- >256b. tooshort -- <256b.
asciilifeform: (or replace w/ n)
signpost: g_l almost certainly in the pen or dead, yes
signpost: nutcase was blithering about sawing off his own foot at the end.
thimbronion: PeterL: According to the code in 24 characters. According to the code in the Serpent lib, 32 bytes. Not clear to me at the moment why I set the max lower than what Serpent allows.
asciilifeform: signpost: sniffing 'powdered courage' will do that
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-11-16 gabriel_laddel: Speaking of which, am going to be performing self-amputation of right foot as it is in the way + I don't trust or want US doctors.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-11-29 gabriel_laddel: ome and a weekend nights end at like 11pm because my generation deserves holocaust). This involved dancing around all over the place, even going so far as to pull out my computer & code onehanded, balancing on one foot, bobbing like a maniac, with lightbulb affixed. Honest to god, I can't tell you if ANYONE even lives in the whole western half of t
signpost: << since found, and turned out to be more scripts that weren't getting chmod +x in texinfo's build script.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-01 17:05:02 asciilifeform: << very curious; paste eggog plz when you get a chance, signpost
signpost: since vpatches don't (and oughtn't) know about unix file modes, these get set in respective build scripts. somehow wasn't stepping on this before with this one.
asciilifeform: ha, this aint the 1st time 'texinfo' is the fly in soup
asciilifeform: (why even needed? remains a mystery)
signpost: info files, because need those alongside man, because reasons...
asciilifeform: primo nominee for chopping block imho
signpost took a militant "shall have all the interpreters/compilers for al lthe turds" attitude because after this vault is sealed off.
signpost: sealing first, then chopping
asciilifeform: logical
signpost: presumably one might want to render the docs into some saner format later.
signpost: would like the material to do so present, alongside proggy that once ate
signpost expects no one to use texinfo for anything himself other than ^
asciilifeform rather fond of tex on acct of being a dead-tree aficionado, and used many times for internal 'proggy to paper to hammock' process . but never once used texinfo
verisimilitude: I use Emacs for it.
verisimilitude: Man sucks.
billymg: is there a way to have gnat-2016 (4.9.4) and standard gcc-4.9.4 in a gentoo system at the same time? i just tried to emerge gnat-2016 and got blocked by gcc-4.9.4
signpost: billymg: see "crossdev" for how to have all sorts of compilers on one machine
signpost: hm, actually don't recall if this can do gnat.
asciilifeform: billymg: is what i did, iirc ( --nodeps !! ) but i can't think of any good reason to do it, the gnat that comes outta portage aint edible
billymg: asciilifeform: so better to leave gcc-4.9.4 in the slot, and build a copy of gnat-2016 manually?
asciilifeform is sitting on a box with 7+ various crossdev gcc's . generally you have to manually set paths to use'em
asciilifeform: billymg: correct, via signpost's process
signpost: !s pentacle tar
scoopbot: signpost: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, update
asciilifeform: ( or if you must, grab the old kit )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-03-24 13:52:26 asciilifeform: dpb: the 1 i use for ffa since ch.11 inclusive was baked using ave1's recipe and builds self (on x64.)
signpost will fart out another of these in time, but this oughta build a static compiler
signpost: ah know what, nvm. don't use it
signpost: another problem is that I used oldstable for debootstrap, which meanwhile became oldoldstable.
asciilifeform: signpost: this is the kinda thing that prompted asciilifeform to attempt binary bootstrapism
signpost: yeah, still wanna target a broadly known historic artifact (intent being many)
signpost: with bin-reproducible build
signpost: (folks are still welcome to read and *not* use it, build from their own box)
signpost: thing's heavily commented.
billymg: signpost, asciilifeform: i believe my system is glibc currently rather than musl
billymg: my laptop seems to have a gnat-2016 installed but i have no idea how it go there (from a few years ago when i was just entering random commands until something worked)
asciilifeform: billymg: unless you went to special lengths to get a musltronic gentoo, yea it's glibc
asciilifeform: billymg: if that gnat runs, keep it, can be used in bootstrapping of the proper one
asciilifeform: ( gnat, in case anyone forgot, requires an arse-mouth connection, i.e. an existing binary gnat, to build )
billymg: asciilifeform: yeah it works, at the moment i only need it to build vtools
billymg: maybe i can just copy over the binaries for now
billymg: i plan to build trb on here as well though, does that also need a gnat?
billymg: ah, yes, it does
asciilifeform: billymg: why would current trb need a gnat ?
billymg: asciilifeform: i was just looking at these steps:
asciilifeform: it's for vtools, billymg
asciilifeform: not trb per se
billymg: ah, gotcha
shinohai: billymg: I had to build from sources, followed this recipe:
shinohai: (Basically just ave1's items with links updated to cure the bitrot)
billymg: shinohai: thanks, will read through this and the linked items and see if i can get it going
asciilifeform: wb bingoboingo
signpost: !!help
signpost: pardon some join/part spam real quick.
signpost: !!gettrust signpost asciilifeform
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 10 by 11 connections.
signpost: alrighty that thing lives again.
signpost: still being kept up to date too
jonsykkel: asciilifeform: its meant to obliterate the output word in the first iteration if you supply OF_in of all 1bits and a count of something like 1?
jonsykkel: FZ_ShiftRight_O_I(x,y,1,z,-1)
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: of_in is either 0 or ( 1<<machinebitness , when left shifting ) or ( 1, when right-shifting ) .
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: there'd be a precondition to force this, but fz_shiftxxx are performance-critical, and, importantly, NOT exported to user
asciilifeform: (they are strictly for internal use in ffa)
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-11-29 asciilifeform: it will produce garbage, yes. i considered to make OF_in a limited type, but it would slow down the place where the item is actually used, substantially ( ada does not offer a fast bit-count-on-word operation )
jonsykkel: asciilifeform: ok i see, didnt know these are only internally used
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: tbf this is impossible to know w/out reading subsequent material
asciilifeform would add a note to ch3 itself but reluctant, doing so fucks over9000 text highlighting blocks
jonsykkel: confused me at least
jonsykkel: right
asciilifeform: i'ma defo add moar explanation there when i make the deadtree ffa.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-02 17:15:35 deedbot:
signpost: np, just needed to trigger JOIN on a msg this server emits after connection.
signpost: before, triggered on all the hairy freenode auth/nickserv shit.
asciilifeform: signpost: in my kludge used simply counter
asciilifeform: (see the current logbot src)
signpost: yeah, rpl-welcome or w/e worked fine in clirc, but that works also
asciilifeform very happy to have deedbot back !
asciilifeform: signpost: did anyone ever show interest in taking over the old deedbot wallet ?
asciilifeform: was imho a++ feature
signpost: maybe I'll bring it back someday, but I don't feel like handing that over to anyone atm.
signpost: long list of items that need a proper p2p version. wot itself is further up my list.
asciilifeform: signpost: wouldn't a 'p2p deedbot wallet' be... bitcoin per se ?
signpost: recall the invoicing was the key thing there, at least I think.
signpost: stored value lets one do that without loads of txn.
signpost: that doing of business publically doesn't need signpost to be alive, or oughtn't.
asciilifeform: signpost: dbw was a convenience, rather than 'absolutely needed' tho
signpost: sure, the other thing was me hand-cranking cold storage, lol
asciilifeform: ( e.g. asciilifeform continues to bill folx w/out it, simply costs a little moar per shot )
signpost: I might actually do this as a service someday, have considered it, but not today.
signpost: that's also why I am not eager to turn the wallet over to someone else. it involved my own opsec.
asciilifeform: imho dbw shined at allowing very cheap goods & services to be billed
asciilifeform: signpost: imho would even work well if deposit or withdrawal happened only on e.g. designated 2-3 days in yr
signpost: lets get some proper crypto going between wot nodes then maybe other useful things happen
asciilifeform: anyways it's a luxury. but was imho pretty neato luxury.
signpost: ain't dead, not deleted, just sleepin
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.103s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=698759
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.142s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759
watchglass: : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=698759 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.174s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759
watchglass: : Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.314s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698756
watchglass: : Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759
watchglass: : Alive: (0.522s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.659s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759
watchglass: : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
← 2021-09-01 | 2021-09-03 →