asciilifeform: bonechewer: it seems to weigh ~considerably~ more (loc) than 'ratbox'
asciilifeform: it's fucking ridiculous. i've used operating systems having fewer loc than this ircd!!!!
verisimilitude: Why not abandon IRC and use something else?
verisimilitude: There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040501 << the original "ircd" was written by a Finnish man surnamed Oikarinen.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-22 21:31:28 asciilifeform: here's a mega-question : what was the original ircd of 1980s? can get src for this? build today ?
gregorynyssa: the "ratbox" program descends from that original codebase. we know this because the codebase of "ratbox" gives credit to Oikarinen.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040500 << 2016, it seems
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-22 21:30:18 asciilifeform: (when was 3.0.10 released?)
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040509 << this was recommended by someone from Suckless.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-22 23:56:41 bonechewer: Speaking of 'balls of C shit', I have no idea whether this [https://github.com/ngircd/ngircd] [ground-up rewrite] is worth being aware of, but at least it can be linked statically without sslism.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040513 << for one thing, if yer 'something else' doesn't have at least irc-compat. front-end, you're then also signing up to write errybody a new client. for all known os and ui paradigms. goodluck w/ that
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-23 00:40:12 verisimilitude: Why not abandon IRC and use something else?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040514 << i dunno that i could think of a worse shape for this if i tried. you gotta be joking, verisimilitude
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-23 00:41:54 verisimilitude: There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation.
asciilifeform: the fuck do i or anyone else want with a piece of shit ~more~ fragile than classical irc?!!
PeterL: If we are going to design something new, how about just throwing UDP packets at each other and leave out tcp?
asciilifeform: PeterL: it ain't a 'just', there's nontrivial mechanics involved in making it so that all net participants see even roughly same picture
asciilifeform: PeterL: at the risk of repeating -- i was specifically looking to avoid, for the time being, 'design something new'
PeterL: right, set up IRC now, worry about designing ideal communication software at a later point
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040515 << found an interesting chronology re subj.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-23 06:33:22 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-22#1040501 << the original "ircd" was written by a Finnish man surnamed Oikarinen.
asciilifeform: PeterL: fact is, to make something ~substantially~ an improvement on classical irc, is a nontrivial project, for which no one tuned in presently has the time.
asciilifeform: (and apparently no one ~not~ tuned in, in so far as publicly visible, either!)
asciilifeform: irc -- still the state of the art.
asciilifeform: 30+yrs later.
PeterL: other option is to use proprietary ???? that uses GB of memory to share text (but it comes with a slick user interface!), and people seem to be ok with that
trinque: yep, ratbox is one side of the lineage that forked into iirc efnet and undernet
trinque: it's weird that I was able to peer my two instances with no problems, but others had this problem with the SERVER command
trinque: I'm curious whether y'all built from src, as perhaps distro maintainers patched the thing, who knows
trinque: at any rate, it does look like a complicated ball of shit, though I'm suspicious that anything which implements "IRC" to any reasonable extent will also be a katamari of hacks
trinque cautions folks to not let this consume too much constructive effort. it's just a stopgap.
asciilifeform: trinque: i built 3.0.9 from src, but did not even make it to attempt at peering, got stuck in earlier setup
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-22 21:30:09 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: btw mine's 3.0.9 and i thought it was latest
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-22 13:53:34 asciilifeform: signpost: update re 'ratbox' on my end -- wrote init.d scriptola for it; still can't figure out 1) why pauses for 15-20s when user logs in. 'disable_auth' (kill the idiotic 'identd' connection attempt from 1990s irc practice) strangely does not fix. 2) how to carry over the user/password thing i had w/ 'unreal'.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-23#1040538 << who wants to go to aol -- can go right now. just don't expect me to come, i aint coming
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-23 09:30:02 PeterL: other option is to use proprietary ???? that uses GB of memory to share text (but it comes with a slick user interface!), and people seem to be ok with that
trinque: ever the fucking junkyard wars eh
trinque will throw some more time at this soon
asciilifeform: ty trinque
asciilifeform: trinque: possibly my hands grow from arse, but i was not even able to set up working per-user password auth.
asciilifeform: no matter what i tried, ended up with 'anyone can log in as anything with any pw'
asciilifeform: (aaand it takes 15-20s for login, for no detectable reason. thought 'identd', found the off switch for same, made 0 diff)
gregorynyssa: trinque: I built "ratbox" from the source-code, yes. I suspect that the distribution-packages contain special patches.
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: IRC was designed as a system for conversations between idle strangers. per-user authentication contradicts decades of engrained customs.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: i'm aware
shinohai: https://elpais.com/economia/2021-06-23/el-fundador-del-antivirus-mcafee-john-mcafee-se-suicida-en-una-prision-de-barcelona.html <<< if there was Qntra would cover
verisimilitude: He's dead?
asciilifeform: shinohai: mcafee? eh, shitcoinists... what's one less?
verisimilitude: Hey asciilifeform, expect a comment on FFA soon. Some fellow Ada programmer has some style question; I had to help him get past the spam trap.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: aite. no need to warn me about these, let'em comment like errybody else, at their leisure
verisimilitude: Really, I just found it amusing I'd to help someone solve the spam trap.
verisimilitude: It's amazing how such a simple question works so well.
shinohai: asciilifeform: Better take http://btc.info.gf/blog/mcafee-fakes-death-to-avoid-eating-his-penis.html