crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088184 << maybe one day ~if~ it's practical to do so and provides me with an expressiveness >= that of lisp.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-24 22:19:38 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088152 Do away with using a text editor for programming entirely.
mats: you're in good company if you're antisocial in this chan
mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials
mats: reasonable people can debate the policy choices that were made, this isn't that
signpost going to bed, but that belonged in here first.
crtdaydreams: Uhoh. Er updates on the Aussie front. Winnie is making a move on the Solomon Islands.
crtdaydreams: signpost: holy shit
crtdaydreams: sleep well
verisimilitude: What are the Solomon Islands?
crtdaydreams: A strategic move i.e. Kokoda 2.0
crtdaydreams: Also where the fiber optics lines run through.
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088196 << Apologies. That was actually very rude and unnecessary given the context. I did not mean to be condescending, it's just all to common with the types I typically deal with.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 01:37:08 verisimilitude: What are the Solomon Islands?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 01:37:58 crtdaydreams: LMGTFY
crtdaydreams: \o vex
vex: it's only heya
vex: just saw honiara mentioned in da logs
crtdaydreams: ye, chinese making a power move
vex: chinatown was on fire 3 moons ago
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-26 20:20:20 vex: meanwhile, In da solomons https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-27/solomon-islands-riots-honiara/100654100
crtdaydreams: unrelated classic: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-27#1067776
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-27 01:00:54 vex: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
crtdaydreams: vex: got any rain?
vex: that's be telling
vex: go ask bingo
crtdaydreams: I don't think I've talked to bingo yet
vex: i don't know the words, but I whistle along
crtdaydreams: vex: mangol?
vex: not me. i'm .au
crtdaydreams: vex: ye
vex: lemon larry.? I like him
vex: mango lassi. heavy on the bhang
vex: nice www btw
vex: reading back thu old t logs; it's dissapointing to finf tubler .bait rotted
vex: .bait was a bot command on #ozcoin, pulled up rando tubler soft pron
crtdaydreams: pffft hehehehe
crtdaydreams: Didn't know of #ozcoin, logs? Or lost to bitrot?
vex: old aussie mining pool
crtdaydreams: yeah? get much surface area in #t?
vex: onlt rubler porn afik
vex: mp replaced the soft with hard
crtdaydreams: aw shit, just had new smoke alarms installed, no fire and no smoke and it won't shut up all of a sudden
crtdaydreams: not even cooking anythin
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 04:53:16 vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG-kU8aOt6U loving the logs these days
vex: is that big trucks going under a smol bridge?
vex: i seen it on vidya already
crtdaydreams: oh kewl
crtdaydreams: brb in 10~
crtdaydreams: close enuff
vex: I've seen mats niger too
vex: boko haaram or whatever
vex: callind dpb. thew ekids need schrist
vex: stones no longer safe on earth
vex choozes to snooze
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087042 << ye sad stuf, need to invent silicon printer kitchen appliance how hard can be
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-22 09:59:26 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087001 << some yrs ago asciilifeform set about designing one, then hit the 'no usable fpga' problem
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-23#1087346 << did some experiments like this too, with photo diode taped to monitor and scope trigger on keyboard switch. not xtremly intresting results since just testing same computer+os with keyboard that can both usb and ps/2, wanted to see specifically diff between these. but method was decent
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088189 << <1year long trial not worth much for predicting wat will happen in >1year time, even if done correctestly
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 01:22:11 mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials
jonsykkel: we come across gun lying on ground, i get idea hey lets try aim at ur face and pull trigger. u complain about risk. i respond that ur claims are unfounded, wheres the evidence that tehers bullet in chamber??
jonsykkel: nobody knows = risky, definitionally
jonsykkel: dont se much evidence either htat teh vax isnt just adding aditional risk on top of risk from virups
crtdaydreams: if it were a water hose but you don't know if the tap is on would it still be "risky" in the same sense?
jonsykkel: nah, i guess chacnes that water hose is connected to lava tap or smth are low
crtdaydreams: er, the point was that the risk isn't in knowledge (in this case, the lack thereof) but context
jonsykkel: i think default assumption shoudl be that puting weird chemicals into ur body is more like gun scenario
crtdaydreams: ofc. but to others it's more like the hose.
crtdaydreams: shrodigners squirt gun
jonsykkel: most people have quite a bit of experience with water hoses to base their heuristics on at least
jonsykkel: u are right its not the knowledge exactly
crtdaydreams: not abt being right, just thinking orthogonally
crtdaydreams: slehp time o/
mangol: a weird-looking, overcomplicated kind of hose that nobody knows much about, connected to one of ~three reich-approved hose providers. people who'd like a traditional hose instead, or to drink from a glass, are treated with suspicion. and come to think of it, you're not really that thirsty to begin with.
mangol: approved "new and improved hose" providers are making gigabucks out of the enterprise by selling hose to govt's all over the world on rapid schedule. said govt's give the impression that they generally have nfi what to do about sudden problem of mass thirst, but surely these people know which hose to buy from what provider. no money and power at stake whatsoever.
mangol: and that's before masks / lockdowns / censorship / vaxxed people are still infected and still transmit virus
mangol: given all that, the main problem is still not covid or vax, but the urgency with which people are compelled to upgrade their mind to the latest reich software
mangol: same mood and tone of voice as "everyone must now be climate alarmist", "everyone must now help refugees feel at home", etc.
jonsykkel: new and improved, upgraded and updated, nano tech high tech hose
mangol: yeah, golden toilet as asciilifeform likes to say
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088190 << this is the mood and attitude that they want college educated people to have
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 01:24:01 mats: reasonable people can debate the policy choices that were made, this isn't that
jonsykkel: very useful term in current times
mangol: next level up is huffÃpot-esque "believe the science", "we are learning"
mangol: afaict The Atlantic is the standard bearer for the kind of "concerned, informed" disposition that the want educated people to have
mangol: prints hilarious waffle like this: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/deep-shtetl/62041a299277230021ae9f0c/follow-the-science-joe-rogan-steven-shapin/
mangol: bring on some academic to meander about and arrive at the conclusion that things are complicated and dissenters are vaguely threatening
asciilifeform: !q uptime
dulapbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 282d 10h 54m
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 07:41:28 mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088190 << this is the mood and attitude that they want college educated people to have
asciilifeform: likely will finish sync in coupla days.
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $44921.29
billymg: needs moar zeros
asciilifeform: wat, 5y+ nao since last new zero...
asciilifeform: ( not counting the engineered crashes, lol )
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.021s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728958 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.276s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.306s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.329s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.603s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.661s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728958
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) (Operator: whaack)
billymg: ah, this reminded me. whaack, i queried the crawler's data to answer your question: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=t1N8
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-11 15:18:45 whaack: curious as to whether any heathen node ever returns a trb node as a peer
bitbot: (pest) 2022-03-18 jonsykkel[asciilifeform|billymg]: indeed, 220.127.116.11 is new ip since 5days ago
billymg: nothing appears to be wrong with the crawler either, its logs continue to print out "found new peer!" almost hourly (which it finds when it pings and gets a response from a previously unknown peer returned to it by the getaddrs call to an existing node)
billymg: i tried fiddling with the peershots knob (number of times it calls getaddr, since node list is incomplete in a single call) but the current "5" setting seems sufficient
billymg: peer list*
billymg: not really sure what to make of it, but i'll be adding this feature to the bot interface soon anyway
bitbot: Logged on 2021-08-11 16:32:02 asciilifeform: billymg: btw pheature req : see if can add a search box (where searches existing, and if not found, adds to scan queue)
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087152 << asciilifeform: signpost:
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-22 15:22:43 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087104 << determined to first fart out vtronic linux, then get to this.
mangol: re file transfer over pest, would a "chunk of file" message type make sense?
mangol: message contains: file hash, byte offset in file, chunk length in bytes, and the data
mangol: this msg type could be re-used for every data transfer application that sends data with known hash
mangol: so a file is sent as over9k filechunk messages
mangol: could have a corresponding message "please send me (hash, chunk offset, chunk length) as one or more filechunk messages"
mangol: there's some waste since the filehash is duplicated in each message, but each message is self-describing so fault tolerance ought to be simpler to do
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088333 << mno, it wouldn't, cuz packets reordered / lost.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 11:16:18 mangol: re file transfer over pest, would a "chunk of file" message type make sense?
asciilifeform: mangol: see the 'luby', 'turbo code', etc. discussions
asciilifeform: aha and signpost's link
signpost: if using a fountain code, all nodes participating in the download can spray their block-streams at each other without regard to offsets, just as received.
signpost: and results in a highly efficient transfer.
asciilifeform: mangol: there's a # of smart algos for doing this ( dunno if yer old enuff to recall 'par' archiver on usenet; used the simplest such scheme )
signpost: https://cs.nyu.edu/media/publications/TR2002-833.pdf << here's the formal description of the en/decoding scheme
signpost: but yeah, this is an extension of e.g. luby, etc
mangol: thanks! i read the linked paper. that's much fancier than what i proposed.
asciilifeform: mangol: a major win from such codes is that you dun need a synchronous (i.e. 'hey gimme #123') conversation, just need to say when to start sending random chunks, and ask to stop when done
asciilifeform: likewise, in principle several peers can send you chunks simult.
asciilifeform: ( again w/out any handshaking )
mangol: literally the asker says "send me some chunks of <hash of complete file>"?
mangol: and algorithm guarantees that sender(s) won't send all that many unnecesarry chunks
asciilifeform: mangol: typically there's a param which sets redundancy
asciilifeform: ( which also depends on the net # of chunks sent, normally you will have some pt at which you stop even if receiver is silent, or you might shout into the void 4evah )
mangol: could you have a setup where the sender always sends a batch of max. 10k random chunks, then stops. receiver asks for another batch if still needs more
asciilifeform: signpost, mangol : thinking about it, you prolly wouldn't want $hash to potentially represent e.g. 1tb file. instead pick a block size, e.g. 1M, and a given lubyism req oughta yield a 1M * redundancy_factor mass of packets. when req'ing a given $hash, if the file is <1M, you get the file, otherwise you get a merkleistic tree of subchunks which can then req.
asciilifeform: if you dun do this, potentially you get some rather gnarly random access spread on disk
mangol: looks reasonable at first glance
mangol: the maymounkov-bigdown paper talks about (ID, position) tuples. apparently the ID can be either peer ID or file ID
asciilifeform: i.e. you want an apriori known mass attached to any particular $hash.
asciilifeform: (max mass)
mangol: and an "index" of files available on a peer can be another bag-of-bytes
mangol: so peers can transmit indices using the same chunk mechanism
mangol: that they use to transmit the actual files indexed
asciilifeform: index is a separate can of worms ( do you want subdirs, i.e. effectively ftp-style ? )
asciilifeform: but yes, transmitted same way, regardless of format
mangol: could also transmit chat logs, etc.
asciilifeform: mangol: there's already a proper mechanism for logs (getdata)
asciilifeform: no reason to represent'em as file
mangol: getdata takes a hash. if you're new to the pestnet, you presumably don't know the hash of old messages
asciilifeform: mangol: you do, cuz they're chained
asciilifeform: you walk the chain.
mangol: ah right
asciilifeform: this is already implemented in thimbronion's blatta
mangol: start from most recent and go back in time
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088353 << strictly speaking, "gimmeh blocks which have been produced using an xor scheme which blends a number of blocks respecting a constructed distribution of the original message by random selection"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 11:38:10 mangol: literally the asker says "send me some chunks of <hash of complete file>"?
mangol: that does take back-and-forth traffic, you ask for each msg separately
signpost: and maymounkov gives a proof that these "check blocks" can be used to produce the original message after no more than a specified amount of overrun
asciilifeform: mangol: it does. given what chat msgs weight it aint a bw concern tho
signpost: to reconstruct a message block, gotta start with at least one check block of degree 1, which means it's a straight copy of a message block.
signpost: single log messages are equivalent to these, cutting them smaller to encode would be less efficent than just resending the udp packet.
signpost: you decode by trying to solve message blocks for which all blocks with which they have an edge are solved, except one.
signpost: my py impl has this working, just oughta be parallel and isn't.
signpost can poast the CL item sometime after cleanup too.
signpost: (incomplete, there's a bug in the encoder somewhere)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088262 << reich dispensed with all traditional pretenses of anyffin resembling objective stats gathering, publication of negatives, etc. -- not even necessarily because 'ohnoez, mega-death from dud vax' but, likely, simply to troll the noncompliant into tilt
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 06:28:27 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088189 << <1year long trial not worth much for predicting wat will happen in >1year time, even if done correctestly
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-08 23:07:16 asciilifeform: adlai: the beauty of it all is that it doesn't matter worth a fuck just HOW obvious the sham is. by so much as implying that yer aware of the sham, you instantly (to mats or other fella who hasn't 'shot the policeman inside his head') placing yourself into the company of the 'martians'.
asciilifeform: in lolcat planet's parlance -- 'shit test'
signpost: if pharmeceutical companies were known for their candor that'd be one thing, lol.
asciilifeform: 'martianization' plays on the reich plebe's appetite for 'rezistenta prin cultura' (aka wank). it takes all of 10min to convincingly forge the handwritten vax receipt. but no, gotta wank, gotta picket, walk straight into the 'martian' 'free speech zone' conveniently set up by the herders.
asciilifeform: cuz the sad fucks still subscribed to 'rule of law' bullshit, would sooner walk straight into oven than forge anyffin
signpost: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history << >> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/
signpost: asciilifeform: and the plain fear that the system must work, or how will I sleep.
signpost: the american version of this is believing oneself to be "in on the lie"
asciilifeform: signpost: the pharma biz is a major component of the reich's 'intellectual property' racket
asciilifeform: right along with microshit et al
asciilifeform: reich satrapies pay tribute in exch for signed pieces of paper. meanwhile free world copies (the rare useful items) and laughs
signpost: martianization indeed. if I say I believe the incidence of vaccine side effects to be higher than they claim, this means antivax
signpost got the vax as soon as moderna's was available, even drove to a neighboring town where the trailer parks weren't bothering to use.
asciilifeform: meanwhile little to no discussion of whether in fact worked in any sense at all. which is how they like it.
asciilifeform: getting the idjits preoccupied with 'but does it kill us' worked a++ in this regard.
signpost: asciilifeform: n-of-1, but I was discussing with my immunologist recently (getting allergy shots) that he's seeing boosted patients with immune disorders get *worse* covid.
asciilifeform won't attempt to telepsychoanalyze mats, but ftr does suspect that the 'ugh martians' trick to some degree worked on him. 'i'ma serious diploma'd fella, i can't sit for 5min in the company of 'martians did 9-11' velveeta-eaters for even 5min w/out retching' etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 01:22:11 mats: no need to mix that up with unfounded claims about how risky the vaccine is, and how there were no clinical trials
signpost asked what the fuck difference is there between endless shots of same vaccine and what he was doing to desensitize to pollen.
signpost: the reich outlets demanding I got get five more boosters when 1) had vax 2) had covid 3) have had antibody test with strong results... would welcome an explanation
asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform wouldn't be astonished if turned out (somehow. unlikely we'll find out) that most of the doses consisted of simply saline.
signpost: who knows, would prefer to live in a society where one could.
mangol: ime people who went to university and never questioned much feel their intelligence is insulted in the company of people who don't stay withing the indicated "debate zone"
signpost: and not "I'm in on the lie".
mangol: "this guy doesn't stay within the approved debate zone. if i take this guy to brunch with my friends, they'll make a fool out of me for hanging out with unhinged people like him"
asciilifeform: mangol: reich stratagem is to set up a perceived dichotomy where yer either 'with the program' or out in 'the lonesome deep space', outside the city walls, in company of 'martians did 9-11', etc. illiterates/schizos
signpost: mangol: something like "you are the reason we can't go back to the good times"
signpost: which itself is politically useful.
mangol: yep. can be seen clearly in covid response, "anti-mrna-vax-for-healthy-young-people" is lumped in with "anti any vax for anyone ever in history", no middle ground
asciilifeform: i.e. choose b/w 'believe the science'(tm)(r) or 'flat earth'
signpost: aside the religious impulse in the left, state will assuage the terror before death.
asciilifeform finds plausible the old theory that the orig. 'antivax' meme was a product of '80s turnerite white-population-control schemes
asciilifeform: seems to have worked a++, e.g. measles returned to the industrialized world
mangol suspect flat eartherism may be a shill operation to a large extent, to discredit conspiracy theory of any flavor
asciilifeform: mangol: reich efforts in this direction are persistent and well-funded
asciilifeform: 1 objective is to prevent anyffin in the way of defection from reich academia
signpost: thing is the beoble gladly help generate these.
billymg: asciilifeform: that dichotomy works so well too. was having a discussion with someone here a few months back about the "fbi cracked the bitcoin keyz!" and explained that no, they didn't, and the media just lied about it. and his response was, "i bet you're one of those earth-is-actually-flat guys too"
asciilifeform: billymg: worx a++
billymg: "it's spelled Kiev, always has been" "flat earther!"
signpost: "thank god, I can stop thinking about whether the FBI can stop the bad on WaPo"
billymg: "women have vaginas" "terrorist!"
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: 'Stop buying into this bullshit. You're getting played. If it's not a "main stream" news source, that means they don't have anyone to answer to and nobody will lose their job if they report inaccurate information. You're not "woke" for reading alternate news, you're a dipshit. Rather than poring over old news clips to prove that 9/11, Sandy Hook, or the Boston Marathon was an "inside job," you should go outside and get a job.' << gol
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: 'Now I know what you're thinking, "but Maddox, I have all my teeth!" You won't for long. People who read alternate news sites will eventually lose their teeth. It's an Anankean inevitability; you're going to do something stupid like put a firecracker in your mouth because you are stupid. Want to know how I know? Because you read bullshit instead of news, and you not only think you're informed, but that you're smarter than the general
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-11-01 asciilifeform: populace because you're doing your own independent research from an independent news source. Except you're not. You're an idiot who's going to lose all his teeth. These sites are using you for money...' << is not, however, false.
billymg: signpost: exactly
signpost: life is a shock to everyone; most people never recover.
signpost: and so what.
billymg: for people who missed out on bitcoin that type of thought is extremely comforting
billymg: "adults in the room still in control"
signpost: "yes sweetheart, your survival depends entirely upon people that *despise* you."
signpost: exactly right
signpost: billymg: these are all tentacles of the big one.
signpost: "you will die and no one can save you"
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088448 << exactly. ime this is the psychological driver behind most exhortations of "get back in line!"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 12:46:57 billymg: "adults in the room still in control"
mangol: the other (somewhat less severe but still formidable) driver being "i'll be embarrassed while having brunch with my chic friends"
signpost: worth pointing out how fragile these relationships usually are.
mangol: it's incredible how tptb can keep lying and messing everything up through random combinations of malice and incompetence, and a great % of people just ask for more
signpost: mangol: what'd they do otherwise?
signpost: not throwing this in your face, but you were quick to point out the emptiness of that signed declaration.
signpost: might have to sit in the truth that they have no way to freedom.
signpost: most people will choose a lie, which is strange, because don't they see themselves telling it? somehow not.
signpost: on a completely other subj, just got a classic ipod, put 1tb SSD in, and I couldn't be more pleased with this device.
asciilifeform: signpost: how do you get files in/outta the thing ?
signpost: asciilifeform: surfaces itself as a USB block dev
signpost put "rockbox" firmware on it for flac, etc
asciilifeform: presumably this was prior to crapple fucking the hdd emulation
signpost: it's a little weird, lies about the partition layout. I've had to boot apple firmware to get files into it reliably, but rockbox firmware can play just fine.
signpost: ^ presumably to hide the firmware partition from connected puter
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088459 << you can and should throw it in my face since i gave you a hard time about it :p
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 13:01:28 signpost: not throwing this in your face, but you were quick to point out the emptiness of that signed declaration.
signpost: sure sure
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088458 << 1 of the things they can do entirely for phree is to put down the rattles
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 13:01:00 signpost: mangol: what'd they do otherwise?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-02-22 17:25:44 asciilifeform: spoiler : it does not matter how much you shake the rattle. or how big is your particular rattle. or even if you can get 1e9 fellow rattlers to shake theirs with you.
signpost: point being it's not clear from just seeing that, that signatory says to himself "I'm dead anyway, might as well spit teeth into oppressor's face"
signpost: asciilifeform: one of the reason's I got an iPod, detoxing from hand-rectangle.
asciilifeform: putting down the rattle costs 0. (i.e. stop voting, giving a shit about the 'candidates', what they do in the muppet threatre, etc)
asciilifeform: costs 0
signpost: costs something that bothers them, not you.
signpost: I'm not just being metal about bringing up death.
asciilifeform suspects that death feels much nearer for the rattlers than for tuned-out folx
signpost: it's near for everybody, but determines much whether a complex of denial accumulates on it, or what.
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088483 << ambiguous. actual or metaphorical death?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 13:08:35 asciilifeform: suspects that death feels much nearer for the rattlers than for tuned-out folx
asciilifeform: mangol: 'coward dies a thousand deaths, brave man -- one' sense
mangol: thousand deaths = have to look yourself in the mirror every morning and hate what you see?
asciilifeform: mangol: mno, in the banal sense where they walk outta house and 'will i covid to death today' etc
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088462 << heh, was just a few weeks ago thinking of doing the same with my old one (last i checked it still works, with the original mechanical drive)
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 17:04:32 signpost: on a completely other subj, just got a classic ipod, put 1tb SSD in, and I couldn't be more pleased with this device.
mangol: right. will it be killer virus, killer extremists, killer food, killer climate
signpost: billymg: got 26hr battery left at 85% right now. mechanical hd took a lot of juice.
asciilifeform: in ru space, the condition in which reich seeks to maintain plebe re 'thousand deaths' is called 'emotional seesaw'
signpost: iirc eventually skips too if running, so that problem goes away.
signpost: seller I snagged from had already upgraded the battery, so that might factor in too.
asciilifeform: monday 'we'll all die', tues.: 'miracle cure! if we all cooperate and Believe The Science!' wed.: 'we'll all die horribly, and soon' thurs.: 'miracle cure, Science Worx!11' etc
billymg: signpost: what kind of ssd did it take?
signpost: asciilifeform: "borderline personality disorder"
billymg: when i looked up this process it included "find an adapter"
signpost: billymg: yeah linked above
billymg: ah ok
asciilifeform: signpost: back when it was rare, was called 'maniac depressive' etc
signpost: can choose whether you want msata, sd card, w/e
asciilifeform: today is the expected mental state of usaschwitz dweller.
signpost found a cheap 1tb msata, chose that.
signpost: asciilifeform: yep, it's what someone does when they're consumed by fear, and have coping mechanisms that suppress it for a while.
signpost: the manic end also chitters nervously, avoidantly.
asciilifeform: the chitter is the aimed condition, from reich pov
signpost: yeah, what'd nietzsche call it, blenchen or w/e
asciilifeform: chitterer is not at risk of rational thought, even for brief interval / by accident
signpost: "ooh shiny"
signpost: or your hill-climber.
asciilifeform: chitter occupies the forebrain, which could otherwise interfere w/ the hillclimber 'amoebic' hind
signpost: billymg: actually looking forward to pest p2p net to put e.g. album collections on there, among more important things.
signpost: asciilifeform: yeah, you're right, different parts of the beast.
asciilifeform: 1337 w4r3z
mangol: me most are relieved to voluntarily suppress their thinking at the first opportunity
mangol: *ime most are
billymg: signpost: yeah, high time everyone returned to managing their own collection instead of relying solely on streaming services
signpost has upheld the tradition.
signpost: got a pile of vinyl too like any respectable hipster.
mangol: "a conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking". s/tired/afraid, works as well
asciilifeform never once used 'streaming services', with the exception of phree lolcattube linx on occasion
signpost had spotify for a bit, found it was detuning my preferences rather than meeting them.
billymg looks forward to perusing signpost's collection once available on pestnet
billymg: yeah, i got lazy during my saltmining years and switched to netflix/spotify
billymg: abandoned the former long ago in favor of my own collection but still use spotify now and then
signpost: get ready for styx sitting right next to sviatoslav richter and robyn
billymg: though also rebuilding audio collection at the moment
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088530 << obligatory [https://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already-been-designed/][Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 13:26:09 billymg: yeah, i got lazy during my saltmining years and switched to netflix/spotify
billymg: mangol: love how it starts with "Well I’m in the working world again."
billymg: that's what does it
mangol: billymg: seems like a bit of a different thing. employees can invest their pay
mangol: article says employees need to be artificially kept in a permanent state of too little free time, so they are exhausted and have to spend their way out of every problem
asciilifeform: mangol: primary purpose of most 'desk flyer' employment is specifically to destroy free time
mangol: easily agreed
billymg: mangol: yeah, i see that now after actually reading the article. jumped the gun and first thought of the money printing problem
mangol: not so much "money burning a hole in your pocket" as "too exhausted to do anything except spend money"
billymg: right, yup, makes sense
billymg: and i can relate completely, and even though i was conscious of it at the time, told myself "it's ok, because you're making money now"
mangol: thanks for linking the trilema article though, hadn't thought of that angle
asciilifeform: 'it’s quite difficult for us to avoid increasing our standard of living (or at least our rate of spending) every time we get a raise' << good % of this is illusion, and what people actually do is ~buying same~ (or moar threadbare) ~after n yrs of inflationism~
asciilifeform: in the most extreme case of this -- say you wanted to live in current reich today w/ same standard of living as e.g. engineer in 1900. would need to spend coupla $mil / y.
signpost: you should see the house my coal-miner great grandfather lived in.
asciilifeform: is on the continuum
billymg: "You work 40-plus hours or you work zero." << i genuinely wonder if the post-covid wfh scheme is a new tacit agreement reached between labor and capital for the information age
billymg: i.e. if you're a tech worker you can now work 10 hours a week as a "full time" salaried employee
asciilifeform: billymg: observe that mandatory telephonic/camwhoric meetings effectively prevent slave from behaving like someone who genuinely only '10h wk'
asciilifeform: even if sums to <10h
asciilifeform: cuz 'wat if boss calls' etc
signpost: yeah, both never ends and nothing gets done.
asciilifeform: the 'keep plebe in his place' gets done.
signpost: "omaigad, our tower of chairs fell down at 2am" and pager goes off.
asciilifeform: which is, largely, the objective
billymg: asciilifeform: right, but even when i was in an office it was perfectly acceptable to "got some errands today, will be in and out!" on the wfh days (we already had one wfh day per week at that time)
mats: plenty of ordinary people have issues with vaccine policies, you have only to walk around and talk to them about it
signpost: people were regularly shocked at what my team could get done until they got used to the $megacorp life, rotted.
mats: where people get off the train is when you the 'we should not use any vaccines, even during active pandemic, until theyve been tested for a year or more' when you have 0 medical training
mats: when you run the* 'we should not use any vaccines ...'
mats: it'd be more honest to do the verisimilitude thing, where you openly first admit you want society to burn (and i am on that train)
shinohai also here for the burning, loves watching empires fall .....
billymg: "active pandemic!" says who?
asciilifeform: mats: fwiw asciilifeform had the vaccine . at same time strongly suspects that it was a cynical fraud.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-24 16:15:30 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform so far: covid #1 (shortly after outbreak) , mildly annoying; covid #2 ('21) mildly annoying; vax (two-part) ; covid #3 ( dec. '21 ) , nasty , 3wks of ugh
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 12:36:05 asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform wouldn't be astonished if turned out (somehow. unlikely we'll find out) that most of the doses consisted of simply saline.
billymg: you do realize that if you allow the loophole: "in an emergency" then there will simply always be an emergency
mangol: ^ exactly
mats: got it, no emergency measures, evar
mangol: when i was a kid (and iÃ'mfairly young) we wouldn't have considered a glorified flu a global emergency
billymg: mats: nah, i think it just comes down to the fact that our current rulers can't be trusted
asciilifeform: mats: would deny that reich officials did moar or less errything possible to destroy trust in their 'emergency handings' ?
mats: sure, distrust in usg has been curated for decades
asciilifeform: picture if yer local fire dept. were over9000x more likely to walk off with yer valuables than to put out fire. would still be eager to call ?
mats: its not a coincidence that the poorest and dumbest people, to incl poor whites blacks and hispanics, had the lowest uptake of the vaccine
mangol: for starters, where's the covid-induced bump in all cause death rates 2020 and 2021 compared to prior years?
mats: this doesn't rise to the level of unfounded claims about vaccine safety
mangol: all cause, because "death by/with covid" is almost certainly massively weaseled
asciilifeform: mangol: good % of'em are simply deaths by withheld 'elective' medical care
mats: i expect a higher level of discourse from you people, where we can discuss controversial subjects without deception
asciilifeform: mats: 'contradicts nyt' == 'deception' ?
asciilifeform: mats: will deny that hospitals closed for 'elective' under fraudulent pretenses ? or wat
asciilifeform: or, rly, insist that erry 'covid corpse' actually died the claimed death ?
mats: you're still skating around the claim, which, granted, you didn't make
asciilifeform: which claim, mats ?
mats: maybe you got an allergy
asciilifeform: that the vax is a dud ? cn, south kr where mass outbreak (per reich media!) atm not evidence enuff ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-24 15:43:37 mangol: exactly. but taking the risk made no sense
mats: what's interesting about the outbreak in hk is the unusual age distribution in vaccinated people, due to public health decisions
asciilifeform: mats: elaborate?
mangol: it was apparent early on that covid is quite harmless unless you are old or have a major chronic illness
mats: lots of middle aged people got it, not nearly as many in over 65s
mangol: "old or have a major chronic illness" is also the expected risk group for vaccine side effects
mangol: why would you take some reich-approved experimental thing that "zomg everyone needs!" if there's no obvious risk from the disease, or (if you're in risk group) risk from disease is likely to be same as risk from vax?
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088577 No emergency measures, unless I agree with them.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 13:55:46 mats: got it, no emergency measures, evar
mats: less than 25% of people over 80 in hk got two doses of the vax prior to omicron, and this has contributed to the waves of casualties
verisimilitude: Good, let them die.
verisimilitude: I'd like to watch someone die because I didn't get vaccinated.
mats: we know
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088569 I won't have mine empathy hijacked.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 13:53:26 mats: it'd be more honest to do the verisimilitude thing, where you openly first admit you want society to burn (and i am on that train)
verisimilitude: ``Get the vaccine, bigot.''
verisimilitude: ``Install the TLS certificate, luddite.''
verisimilitude: ``Do this, do that, for strangers.''
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 12:40:30 asciilifeform: finds plausible the old theory that the orig. 'antivax' meme was a product of '80s turnerite white-population-control schemes
mangol: found someone who refused latest reich software update --> "literally hitler!1 killing grannies!"
mangol: verisimilitude: soon "put the microchip under your skin". at least 1 swedish company already openly boasting about it
mangol: of course, under the pretext that it's safe and effective for public health
verisimilitude: I was never willing to urinate in a cup on demand, for an employer; so, naturally, injecting something inside of me was completely unacceptable.
billymg: mats: i still don't understand why you care so much about people dying when: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1087671
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-24 07:20:57 mats: as the knowledge gap grows, probably it is best that the socioeconomic inequality gap also grows
billymg: i just don't understand the inconsistency. "they ain't smart enough, let 'em starve" "they aren't healthy enough, we must protect them!!"
billymg: is it because in the second case mats believes he needs protecting? if so that's sort of hypocritical, no?
mats: we can discuss antisocial behavior without plugging in bullshit about risk
mats: you might need to wrap up the two to swallow the thing, i don't
billymg: swallow what thing?
billymg: i just know i'm healthy enough that i'll take my chances with the virus
billymg: and if i'm not, then i don't deserve to pass on my genes
billymg: but so far still waiting to die...
mats: "the vaccine is too risky and untested"
billymg: mats: in this case, to me, personally, any risk > 0 is too much
billymg: for you, maybe not, and i can respect that. it's your decision
billymg: so back to policy, let people make their own choices, if they die they die
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 17:59:20 mats: its not a coincidence that the poorest and dumbest people, to incl poor whites blacks and hispanics, had the lowest uptake of the vaccine
mats: the discussion has been about the population, and some of what society does is telling people what to do
billymg: yes, which is fine if those doing the telling have the interest of the people in mind
billymg: this is old as time too, you have to believe in your king to be willing to obey orders / fight and die for him. if you don't, you explore other options
mats: options like telling people on the internet that the vaccine is untested and risky
billymg: "information warfare is only ok when we do it"
mats: information warfare is more effective when you don't lie
billymg: right, so i don't. i say the vaccine has non-zero risk (hard to prove otherwise) and i say for me it's not worth it
mats: this expands the potential target audience to everyone, not just the people that have problems with authority
mats: anyway, back to breaking big rocks
billymg: ok... so how is that my problem? if they're dumb enough to believe what i write on the internet then they deserve to be filtered, as per your view, no?
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-24 07:20:57 mats: as the knowledge gap grows, probably it is best that the socioeconomic inequality gap also grows
billymg: mats: enjoy
billymg must also bbl
billymg: before i go though, i don't want what i wrote to be misinterpreted as advocating for spreading misinformation. i genuinely believe not taking the vax if you're young and healthy is the right choice, so when i make this argument, i am making it in good faith, with the interests of those i'm talking to in mind
signpost: mats: I wouldn't even dismiss the idea that society's being culled in order from least obedient to most, which sounds like what you're intimating.
billymg: ^ popular theory on 4chan too
signpost: this is not even to say that it was engineered to do so.
signpost: "ah good, finally something came along to thin the beoble of walmart"
signpost: given impending resource constraints, probably will be more of this.
signpost thinks agency is too often ascribed to what is more often simply stepping out of the way and letting people get hit. see also: 9/11
signpost: this condescending "management" is exactly the ideology of both right and left american politics, in slightly varying flavors.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088638 << in this, I see an uninspected, or at least unexpressed omission that the authoritarian machine is for hire, and of short attention span.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 14:21:18 mats: the discussion has been about the population, and some of what society does is telling people what to do
signpost: sure, two shots of e.g. moderna's vax probably decreases risk for most people. then somebody looks at an impending earnings cliff and conveniently, 3, 4, n shots.
signpost: people you consider rubes can pick up the scam in ^ even if they're otherwise statistically, scientificially, illiterate.
signpost: hell, what animal can't tell when another has taken the feint. my cats do it.
signpost: one can even imagine the bureaucrat at the NIH saying to himself that if covid isn't blown out of proportion, and used to establish precedent for rapidly vaccinating the whole country, next plauge (say like the iirc hemmorhagic MERS, but with omicron's transmissibility) might be game over.
signpost: gods don't care if we get a winning move, is my view, at least.
asciilifeform: signpost: possibly part of the covidiocy scheme's objective was to undermine credibility of (past & future) vax which actually work
signpost figures the thing's a writhing ball of worms, each with own interest.
verisimilitude: That's the other side of the 4chan and related thinking.
verisimilitude: ``What if next time, the vaccine actually will be needed?''
signpost: and yes, "vax" that kinda works, but with subscription rather than one-time purchase, $$$$
verisimilitude: Nobody knows, so I choose apathy.
asciilifeform: moar fundamentally, with the reich being the sole source of any kinda mass stats, the question aint a 'public health question' but a 'credibility of reich' question
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 12:47:02 signpost: "yes sweetheart, your survival depends entirely upon people that *despise* you."
signpost: same problem as CPUs, needed and only made by the enemy.
signpost: attenuated virus vaccine may even be more dangerous, end up giving you the disease in question.
signpost still wanted this for the robust immunity, aware of risk.
asciilifeform: virus per se seems to be good for 6mo+ immun
asciilifeform: the interesting, psychologically, aspect of the mats thread is the difficulty, for some folx, of making the jump to 'reich stats likely bogus, all i can rely on is personal experience of self and those around me'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 12:38:16 asciilifeform: mangol: reich stratagem is to set up a perceived dichotomy where yer either 'with the program' or out in 'the lonesome deep space', outside the city walls, in company of 'martians did 9-11', etc. illiterates/schizos
asciilifeform: goes screamingly against the 'scientism' baked into firmware by reich 'education'
signpost: perhaps you grew up with people who were more reliable in their common sense.
asciilifeform: were, at any rate
verisimilitude: I still like the USG statistics about groups towards whom I hold disdain.
asciilifeform watched parents contract rather obvious covid during init outbreak, then 'hey wapo proclaimed that old folx couldn't possib survive unscathed, it couldn've been covid, we'll button up in house for year' etc
mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088651 << this sounds like the kind of disclaimer that people put at the end of a publication to avoid persecution for thoughtcrimes
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 18:33:05 billymg: before i go though, i don't want what i wrote to be misinterpreted as advocating for spreading misinformation. i genuinely believe not taking the vax if you're young and healthy is the right choice, so when i make this argument, i am making it in good faith, with the interests of those i'm talking to in mind
mangol: not implying you do it intentionally, but good to learn out of the habit
signpost: yep. sometimes people are just dealing with the flatness of the medium (text)
mangol: experience so far shows that the left has 0 interest in protecting people who dutifully complied with prior years' dogma
mangol: be a visible goodthinking leftist for 15 years -> make some foible on the 16th year -> banhammered, unemployed etc.
signpost: inshallah bitcoin knocks a few of us loose to focus more on the wot, still waiting for that next zero.
mangol: "misinformation" == information that didn't come from harvard
signpost: as all of these problems come from sickness of relationship.
signpost: consider if the wot contained a respected epidemiologist, both here and among others in that field.
signpost: how the thread would go then.
verisimilitude: Consider if he also had the memetic virus.
asciilifeform: signpost: sorta contradiction in terms, couldn't be still 'respected' if departed from party line
signpost: if wot can't infect the outside, no point in having it.
signpost ain't ideologically dead on that front yet
verisimilitude: Most of us are programmers, but I certainly don't hold your opinions as necessarily valid.
signpost: yet here we sit talking.
signpost: "willing to hear" is not belief.
asciilifeform: signpost: what'd 'infect outside' look like ?
signpost: more meatsacks in the wot, such that link analysis can be done from/to any of 'em.
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088643 << reich lies habitually
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 14:27:00 mats: information warfare is more effective when you don't lie
asciilifeform wonders how many inhabitants of planet3 even mentally competent to participate in wotronics, given existing tech
verisimilitude: Take the amount of people using Facebook, and subtract that from the population, to start.
signpost: mangol: mats appears to think that we tacitly believe the vax probably works, but think it's fine if the weak get ravaged by the illness.
signpost: leave it to him to correct me.
signpost: i.e. "we are in on the lie"
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088645 << "problems with authority" is one of numerous instances where mental health diagnoses are selectively applied to discredit opponents
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 14:27:56 mats: this expands the potential target audience to everyone, not just the people that have problems with authority
verisimilitude: Let mats be made aware I don't think it works.
asciilifeform: near as can tell, errybody who can be 'ravaged', will be ravaged. 'don't run from the sniper, you'll just die tired'(tm)
verisimilitude: The flavour of this discussion is clear when we make it about programming.
signpost: o/^ "all.. our times.. have come" o/^
verisimilitude: ``MicroSoft says we need the fourth booster pack. They know programmers.''
mangol: signpost: "in on the lie" approx. equal to "feel good about myself at chic brunch"?
mangol: part of the aspirational class fake inner circle that asciilifeform talked about
mangol: or if not aspirational class, then the wider laptop class
verisimilitude: I'd like for programming to be a regulated endeavour, but that requires the regulators to know what programming is.
signpost: mangol: everything is a lie in america. the only wisdom is being aware of the angle.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: if were up to reich, taking a shit would be a 'regulated endeavour'. fortunately 'hands too short'
signpost: (is the perspective)
signpost: comes of financialism and consumerism.
asciilifeform: per asciilifeform , stockholm syndrome is the fundamental underpinning of 'believe the science!'(tm)(r) 'hamstering'
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-02-17 asciilifeform: afaik all literate folk know about, e.g., the auschwitz inmates who collected scraps of german uniforms, etc.
verisimilitude: It's quite funny how people can look upon this world and think a loving god created it.
signpost: that it is.
signpost credits the meatsacks 100%.
signpost: god, if exists, is the self-balancing mechanism in nature which will erase us if we keep screeching about our sovereignty over reality.
asciilifeform: current reich is based on model of 'cheaper to guard the concentration camp if the inmates can be persuaded that they aint in one' ;
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-03-14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902463 << limonov had entire b00k on subj, with slightly different twist ( tldr : the 'free world' built 'disciplinary sanitarium' (his term) where ideas-dun-matter-even-if-you-somehow-come-across-one cuz they all get http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ )
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: 'Frightened of its own cannibalism during the First, and, moreover, the Second world wars. 'civilized' mankind dashed from the 'hard' to the 'soft' mode of violence. (The deciding factors: 1. the restraining influence of atomic weapons and 2. the advent of new technologies of production, which made possible an overfeeding of the masses.) If the essence of 'hard' violence consists in the physical suppression of
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: man, 'soft' is based on the encouragement of his weaknesses. The ideal of 'hard' violence - to convert the world into a maximum security prison, of 'soft' - to convert man himself into a domestic animal.'
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-21 asciilifeform: (limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium')
signpost: They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
signpost: So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
verisimilitude: A panopticon is cheaper than a typical prison.
mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088719 << yes -- if microsoft was also responsible for tax policy, border control, monetary policy, education system, ...
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 19:11:15 verisimilitude: ``MicroSoft says we need the fourth booster pack. They know programmers.''
mangol: authority does every imaginable and unimaginable thing to discredit itself -> wonder why difficult people have problems with authority
verisimilitude: Those machines are running Windows, but that wasn't my point.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088692 << can't speak for other folx, but in asciilifeform's corner of the barbed wire, 'sandwich' seems set to win the race for 'new zero', well ahead of btc-usd exchrt
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 15:01:26 signpost: inshallah bitcoin knocks a few of us loose to focus more on the wot, still waiting for that next zero.
dulapbot: (alethepedia) 2020-10-11 asciilifeform: thimbronion: the altcoinists -- sure . but i was speaking of the fact that the exch rate prolly aint growing another 0 -- or rather, not w/out the dollar price of archaetypical sandwich also growing a zero.
asciilifeform: i.e. the exact reverse of 'btc to moon' scenario
mats: i guess if you believe the science is a lie, or the statistics are a lie, and the only thing that matters is your bubble of personal experience and 5 people, then at least we finally have arrived at an understanding
mats: very clever
asciilifeform: mats: outta curiosity, is there a hypothetical 'red line' where, if crossed, you'd set 'bozo bit' on reich.academia ?
asciilifeform: ( or willing to swallow anyffin at all, no matter how laffably contradictory to lived experience or ordinary logic ? )
mats: if there was an active dispute among scientists about experimental results, yes
asciilifeform: very easy to make 'no dispute' if the disputants 'no longer scientists' by reich decree, neh
asciilifeform: sorta how 'there's no dispute' that 'putin is antichrist' if yer tuned into reich's fishwraps
mats: and you think that's happening?
asciilifeform: happening for ~20y in 'climatology', for instance
mats: scientists are being fired and defrocked for disputing the efficacy of various vaccines?
asciilifeform: why limit to covid. wainot start with e.g. duesberg.
mats: right, so there's a concerted effort to stop science fags from sciencing
mats: very interesting
asciilifeform: mats: skip the strawmen plox
mats: from climate research to vaccine research
asciilifeform: from (at least) the 'ozone hole' bullshit (proj. of dupont inc)
asciilifeform: shining success, inspired subsequent lulz
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088749 << yep, not holding my breath til '24, oughta make things lively again, if not sooner.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 16:05:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088692 << can't speak for other folx, but in asciilifeform's corner of the barbed wire, 'sandwich' seems set to win the race for 'new zero', well ahead of btc-usd exchrt
mats: i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling
signpost: bud, you're approximately yelling at the tv by now.
asciilifeform: mats: btw didja ever do time in reich.academia ? ( e.g. asciilifeform has, described subj in logs plentifully )
PeterL: mats: expand on how to make >500mn/yr? I would gladly switch to however you get that to work?
mats: do a phd, then an md, and treat cancer patients
asciilifeform: PeterL: lol it's 'could be making', exists, like the voltage on dead watch battery, until you connect a load..
mats: the rich patients
PeterL: still seems off by ~3 orders of magnitude
mats: sorry, 500k
asciilifeform read 'k' lol
signpost: half mil is about right for any megacorp job after a promotion or two.
asciilifeform: a successful surgeon indeed can make 500k easily enuff
mats: surely there are problems with academia but there is no active suppression of researchers
asciilifeform: thing is that there aint a need for 1e8 surgeons anywhere
mats: not in this manner
asciilifeform: (not does typical paper monkey have 'hands growing outta right place' to be a surgeon)
mats: i love conspiracies as much as the next goyim
asciilifeform: mats: 'conspiracy' is a reich shibboleth
verisimilitude: The word has a legitimate definition, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: It's merely that it has been poisoned in common usage.
verisimilitude: I won't allow the word ``conspiracy'' to be ruined any more than I'd allow it for ``woman''.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: largely used in cheapo signaling, 'shuddup terrorist, or live in the company of 'martians did 911''
mats: i remember when we did the 9/11 thread in #b-a
signpost: mats: put some light between this "all the researchers aren't being suppressed" and some of the scandals regarding pharmeceutical companies in the last few decades for me
mats: i mentioned that my grandparents watched the second plane hit the tower, when some guy was talking about controlled demo
asciilifeform: ( also used in reich.jurusprudence, originally to denote 'criminal conspiracy' i.e. premeditated crime with >1 participant; then lulzily redefined to include even 1! can 'conspire w/ self' )
mats: can you elaborate, signpost
signpost: what is the process by which pharmeceutical companies provide data to journals?
signpost: has there ever been a case where omissions, technically-honest aggregations, etc., have been used to get things approved which later cause e.g. stroke, heart valve failure, w/e
signpost: if so, how does this happen?
mats: i don't do pharma research, why are you asking me
signpost: I'm not doing the left/right thing; it's a waste of my pulse.
signpost: you're the derp sitting here declaring yourself a defender of The Science, so do it.
mats: you mentioned scandals, give me some reporting
signpost: are you somehow unaware of the cases I was referencing with my examples?
signpost: go read about pfizer for an hour and come back.
mats: very helpful and edgy
signpost: you think in memes, dude.
signpost: "edgy", really?
mats: i tried very hard to be patient
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 12:28:41 signpost: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history << >> https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/cdc-withholding-covid-data-over-fears-of-misinterpretation/
signpost: mats: apparently not patient enough to read ^
PeterL: I am involved in the margins of pharma research, maybe I can shed some light on this topic, if you have specific questions?
asciilifeform: ' September 2, 2009 ... American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products, the Justice Department announced today.'
asciilifeform: ^ and that's just when egregious enuff that even reich organs barfed!
asciilifeform: not even mentioning the 'unindicted' fraugs, e.g. the mega-push of statins (do you know any statin patients whose brain not detectably dissolving?)
asciilifeform: ... or the mass push of ssri, 'mood stabilizers', etc. producing over9000 zombies
signpost: https://www.npr.org/2007/11/10/5470430/timeline-the-rise-and-fall-of-vioxx << another famous case.
asciilifeform: could fill MBs of log with these if wanted.
asciilifeform: no shortage.
asciilifeform: and again those are just where actual corpses. plenty w/out, with merely crippling effects, but a++ reich.ok
asciilifeform: 'because reasons'
signpost: "Weinblatt fills out a financial disclosure form that says he and his wife own $72,975 of Merck stock." << hue
asciilifeform: signpost: can moar or less freely add a 0 or 2 to these (what kinda lizard actually discloses 100% holdings)
signpost: asciilifeform: sure, I wrote about my own case where I was fed quetiapine for insomnia.
asciilifeform: aha asciilifeform recalls
signpost: astra zeneca paid huge fines over that.
asciilifeform: almost errybody in usa has l1 (or direct) story like that
asciilifeform: yet 'not data, anecdote!'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: cuz, remember, if not came outta nyt, it aint Science(tm)
signpost: it is until it isn't, and the loyal will just as quickly switch sides and bleat that it has always been.
asciilifeform: normally story flips when a patent expires
signpost: and before the idiot attack comes from mats, this does not mean everything that comes out of these companies is therefore poison, or that the researchers in their labs are all secret liars.
asciilifeform: then, $olddrug 'dangerous, here's where you can class action sue', $new -- a++
signpost: it is better for these companies if there is the cover of legitimate, honest research.
asciilifeform: most of what comes out is endless reshuffle, for patent purpose, of 50+y.o. items.
asciilifeform: occasionally the 'patentability mod' has spectacular bomb effect.
signpost had his health back in about 5 years after the quetiapine.
signpost: and had to work for it.
PeterL: what did it do to you?
verisimilitude: There was a time in my life during which I considered taking depression pills. Fortunately, I was too lazy.
signpost: PeterL: gut issues, blood pressure, misc nervous system strange.
signpost: had e.g. debilitating migraines to the point of puke/pass-out for years after, now gone.
asciilifeform in '09 was fed 'cipro' as 'prophylactic against possible pneumonia with swine flu', had knock-down random tendon pains for ~7y after
asciilifeform: famous scamdrug, massively stockpiled by usg during bush ii's 'anthrax theatre', resulted in huge surplus that had to be pawned off somehow
asciilifeform: asciilifeform 'got off lightly' arguably -- for some, apparently, permanent
verisimilitude: I do occasionally question how my typing pain only happened after 2020, by my memory.
signpost: inflammatory disease is on the rise.
verisimilitude: I already avoid sugar and the like.
verisimilitude: I'm improving, I think.
verisimilitude: I'm avoiding certain oils, now.
asciilifeform: usa fulla folx taking 5-6 ???s , of'em most 'against side effects of other'
asciilifeform: typically once victim gets on that treadmill, stays until gives up ghost
asciilifeform: (for which anyone but the prescriber or pharma scammer is blamed)
verisimilitude: I can, in principle, go into the woods and survive. I'd likely, but not certainly, die. I never want to lose that option.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088840 << worth noting also how reich.academia typically behaves even when ~0 serious dough at stake.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 16:32:24 signpost: and before the idiot attack comes from mats, this does not mean everything that comes out of these companies is therefore poison, or that the researchers in their labs are all secret liars.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-14 13:43:52 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: academitards ~never share working src. because typically there aint one (if there's anyffin resembling a proggy -- it's a pile of rigged demo bullshit which shits out the charts that go into the paper liquishit, rarely anyffin moar)
verisimilitude: Addiction eliminates it.
signpost sounds like broken record, but because it mostly doesn't stick.
asciilifeform: ( not even speaking of when there's dough. e.g. recall the planetary-scale stinkfest when 'climatologist' data-fudging src leaked )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-02 12:16:03 asciilifeform: ( someone leaked mailing list where the 'climate experts' were openly discussing how best to cook the #s, silence 'terrorist' critics, etc )
signpost: people will be screeching that there must be a way out for them the whole way down.
signpost: THEY ARE OWED it.
signpost: this is surely what every imperial subject said in every fallen empire.
asciilifeform: signpost: not even 'there's way' but 'there's nothing to need way out of, all going by plan'
signpost: that if you close your eyes, you can know in your heart that it still lives.
signpost: the old cunts in DC will be aghast, say unprecedented, do nothing, at every click of the ratchet.
signpost: entirely despite the well meaning hard work of whichever lab rat.
signpost: anyway why be sad. it means things don't remain broken forever. nature works, just not for you
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-10-03 phf: i'm not sure, but not in the way that phrase is cliche in english. god loves you, christ acts from inner great love. i'm not sure christ loves ~you~ as such
asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform finds fascinating the psychological tension where folx who 'identify as intellectual' are terrified of 'being kicked outta intellectuals' (1st and foremost by 'policeman in own head') and consequently buy into laffable Official nonsense by the megatonne. ( dunno if mats diagnosably fits in this group, but shows worrisome symptoms imho, what w/ linx to papers w/ 'freedom index'(tm) with straight
asciilifeform: face, etc)
asciilifeform: this was observable in late sovok, where otherwise entirely rational folx would stick a marx&engels ref into e.g. physics work, not from Official mandate, but simply to moar confortably live 'in own head'
signpost: hard to say with the way the guy's communicating, is all.
signpost offered pretty evenhanded syntheses in thread, imho.
asciilifeform defo hopes mats doesn't walk off any time soon, is rather curious re thought process, i.e. is it the above
asciilifeform: ( ...or is moar like dpb's 'don't go to hell!' , i.e. actually hopes to convert sumbody? which. )
asciilifeform: ( or both..? )
asciilifeform reminded inescapably of various convs w/ relatives, with whom can go surprisingly far on logical path, only to then hear cnn/nyt parroted again next day/wk
signpost: probably deep in the meat, to never believe one's in a double-bind.
signpost does not exclude himself from these statements, thinks they are probably heard as aimed at "you".
asciilifeform: meat wants 'reassure', is wai turns on the cnntube/nyt/etc.
signpost: not religious, but retained the notion that man has to know how broken he is to be more.
asciilifeform: tube will helpfully 'inform' that e.g. extra 0 on prices is 'from orc aggression', 'vax for covid', etc
asciilifeform: the fascinating thing is that even a stint of work in the reich kitchens where these 'dishes' are cooked, is rarely curative.
asciilifeform: 'memory hole effect'(tm)
signpost: maybe the bones feel war coming; if so, not even wrong.
asciilifeform: war already in.
signpost: to them. not tv.
signpost: but yes
asciilifeform: over9000x funnier, if go & read e.g. the ukr groundlings, even tank column rolling straight through yer lobby aint necessarily curative.
asciilifeform: ( oblig. ukr joak : (2, over bottle of vodka) 'hey let's go beat up some jiggerz' 'sure, but what if -- they, us?' 'they, beat up us? for what??' )
asciilifeform: 'а нас за що'
signpost: sorta saying that everyone's preparing their blame for the defeat.
signpost: seems about right. gotta be ahead of the trade!
signpost bbl, gonna grunt out some work.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-09 15:13:30 mats: interesting arb of 'stranded energy' in nat gas flares or however that works
asciilifeform lulz at the morons who 'ohnoez evil polluters' when already for almost 2centuries flares burn
crtdaydreams: re: pest filesharing, how would filesharing permissions be executed? i.e. an file transfer eqiv of /query for each file to be transferred where peer can reject or accept (and also cancel transfer and discard packets) or will you be able to set a peer to "allow files / always accept"
crtdaydreams: On the pest side of things, traffic analysis to see which peers are sending large volumes of data, would it be to the whole network as to obfuscate in the current way?
crtdaydreams: s/the/sent to the/
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088652 << Impartial to current debate I'd like to point out that using the very same logic of most ''anti-vax'' types (e.g. ``state wants to kill me with vaxx depopulation!!1!''), one could argue that conversely the vaxx is designed to weasel out the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 14:32:21 signpost: mats: I wouldn't even dismiss the idea that society's being culled in order from least obedient to most, which sounds like what you're intimating.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 14:19:28 mats: "the vaccine is too risky and untested"
crtdaydreams: 25#1088652][disobedient] and ``covid'' is to kill those disobedient. Catch22. But there is unconscious choice to chose the former interpretation; either a) stupidity or b) they have more faith in reich than say ``pro-vaxx''
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088912 << can't picture any need for anyffin moar granular than 'l1 peers can ask for index & files'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 19:03:05 crtdaydreams: re: pest filesharing, how would filesharing permissions be executed? i.e. an file transfer eqiv of /query for each file to be transferred where peer can reject or accept (and also cancel transfer and discard packets) or will you be able to set a peer to "allow files / always accept"
asciilifeform: ( if you aint a peer, i.e. can't talk to $station -- talk to yer own peers, see if they have whatcha want )
crtdaydreams: ah ok.
crtdaydreams: wouldn't that be subject to some form of traffic analysis though?
crtdaydreams: and would $peer fetch packet for you a bit like how the NAT Breakout works?
crtdaydreams: or would unpeered station send you file?
asciilifeform: unpeered station can't send you anyffin, crtdaydreams
asciilifeform: re traffic, enemy can see that yer sending/receiving, but not what, or whether useful payloads or rubbish
asciilifeform: if is a serious concern, saturate yer link w/ rubbish.
crtdaydreams: enemy has no biz knowing if sending file or not, and no estimate in size
asciilifeform: you received or sent 1e9 packets, could be anyffin, file, text, rubbish, etc
asciilifeform: a pest packet aint distinguishable from /dev/random output to anyone but originator & addressee.
crtdaydreams: and pests __may__ send arbitrary rubbish to other peers anyway
crtdaydreams: so enuff obfuscation in that
asciilifeform: how much, how often, and when -- unspecified
asciilifeform: is matter of taste
asciilifeform: someone concerned w/ traffic analysis may want to saturate his link, for instance. while somebody on an expensive (e.g. satellite) link may want to conserve bw. etc
crtdaydreams: and if peers forwarding packets it'd be possible to tell though
crtdaydreams: i.e. a forwarded req for files, one could see, then approximate any high volume traffic in next n-ms is files
asciilifeform: i.e. a packet (even containing a msg that is to be broadcast later) is only meaningful to the addressee.
asciilifeform: why wouldja 'forward' a req. for files ?
asciilifeform: fileshareism only makes sense b/w direct peers
crtdaydreams: idk, I just realized
crtdaydreams: dumb, dw.
asciilifeform: (nuffin stops a peer from later adding the warez to his own share and then pass to ~his~ l1. is the logical way to propagate it.)
crtdaydreams: yep. I can see.
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: i rec to read the spec. then will realize that in fact a station ~only~ speaks to its peers.
crtdaydreams: would be interesting to write script though that __can__ "pass" warez req. across peers thought decrypt/encrypt. would be possible or violate point of pest filesharing?
crtdaydreams: i.e. if don't have philes, make req to peers for file, if peer has it, download to /tmp, send, delete.
asciilifeform: individual station operator could, naturally do this. may end up ostracised as bw hog by peers if it adds up to ungodly bw
asciilifeform: ( rather like how a demented station operator could e.g. rebroadcast direct msgs meant strictly for him, somewhere )
asciilifeform: the protocol does not and cannot prevent dementia in operator
crtdaydreams: yeah. I see. call it taboo if you will then lol.
crtdaydreams: a pest "not-to"
asciilifeform: can e.g. spam yer peers, or whatnot
asciilifeform: until you've none left
asciilifeform: plenty of ways, in principle, to abuse yer peers. but they'll eventually unplug you
crtdaydreams: I've been thinking of getting a pest running on my server, (w/ Nat Escape to home nw)
crtdaydreams: current stations are blatta and signposts wip cl build, yes?
crtdaydreams: oh cool.
asciilifeform: thimbronion's blatta & jonsykkel's smalpest
crtdaydreams: nat fw confirmed to work before?
asciilifeform: nfi whether worx in current blatta. haven't tried smalpest of yet
crtdaydreams: that's cool. can be test case if need be.
asciilifeform: in orig. blatta, nat traversal to an un-nat'd peer always worked.
asciilifeform: (2 nat'd peers needed to have at least 1 untrapped peer in common, then can receive broadcasts from 1 anuther)
asciilifeform: in current draft spec, any station can break outta nat if its wot contains at least 1 already-escaped (or entirely un-nat'd) station.
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: note that filetransferism aint implemented (or even specced) just yet.
asciilifeform: folx still working out the proper algo for it.
asciilifeform: it aint particularly different from how was done in earlier systems. w/ the important difference that there is no central server (a la skype's), instead any peer who already escaped, will help own peers escape
crtdaydreams: ok, thank you. will try and get a running pest station up in next wk~.
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: dunhesitate to ask for help here when you get started.
crtdaydreams: I should be fine just reading source.
crtdaydreams: If something in coad doesn't make sense, will def ask.
asciilifeform: rec to read spec 1st.
crtdaydreams has already been over spec, will go over it again
asciilifeform: is much shorter than the src, and then src will make over9000x moarsense
asciilifeform must bbl
thimbronion: asciilifeform: blatta still works behind a nat for me