Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-08-24 | 2021-08-26 → ↓
asciilifeform: punkman: superficially interesting (and maybe even useful to foreigners who want to buy up cheap usa lands, for whatever reason) but for folx actually living in usa, is a tax trap.
asciilifeform: punkman: in usa, if you have any kind of official presence there, when you buy xyz for coin from a usg.corp, they file a 'form 1099' tax report to declare that you've 'sold' coin and received its usd equiv. as 'income' (whether or not it in fact sold in the usual sense) and you eventually get a bill for up to half (!) of the sum.
asciilifeform: ... plus interest and penalties.
asciilifeform: ( normally the exact amt of the tax depends on the mass of coin 'sold' in this way; but for even the smallest real estate yer going straight to the max tax rate )
asciilifeform: IANAL but this appears to be the current regime. and expect worse in future.
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $48299.39
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.090s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=697536
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=697536
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697536 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.086s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697536
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.111s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697535
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.086s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=697536 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697536
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.173s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697536
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.258s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697535
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.400s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697536
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.584s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697536 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: meanwhile, this fella replies. if he appears while asciilifeform is out, folx, plox to set a table for him.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-24 17:16:39 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in misc. oddities.
shinohai: asciilifeform: I spoke to this guy on Telegram not long after news of MP's death spread - pretty sure I told him "the logs are your friend" in regards to his Trilema research.
shinohai: (As I understand guy wants to do an extended piece on MP and #t history or somesuch)
asciilifeform: shinohai: from reading his twatter, i got impression that he did not even know of the current logs www.
asciilifeform: (his links were strictly to phf's)
asciilifeform: which i suppose if yer interested strictly in eras 0 -- 2 , mostly adequate
shinohai: AH I had linked him to *both* for completeness
shinohai: "http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/ has the entire old snapshot, but also logs asciilifeform's current chan now" <<< from my Telegram convo with him.
shinohai: As I understand, hanbot sent him packing so he *may* show up here, who knows.
asciilifeform: the publication he seems to represent is a rather tedious and historically unsavoury (shilled for mtgox, for instance, iirc) item, but i don't begrudge him log search pointers or whatever small thing he likely wanted.
asciilifeform will bbl
shinohai: Same, though I may have come off nonchalant to the guy - there was no end to curious PM's from folks I had no time to entertain.
asciilifeform: lol shinohai , you fell on this grenade, must be, they all came to you -- and none here
shinohai: I think I'm one of the few persons in logs that has heathen web presence. ^_^
signpost: somebody doing the netflix documentary eh? lol
asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc thimbronion also does twatter etc
asciilifeform: signpost: clickbaitflix or sumthing
signpost belches his disinterest.
signpost: asciilifeform: your "broken algo was *always* broken" has been sinking further into my skull of late. it's a broad and profound statement, if also obvious.
signpost: specifically, what use is there in documenting the history of a failed escape from communism, except to give the communists a bedtime cautionary tale.
thimbronion: Wasn't there something in the logs about the importance of documenting failures as well as successes? "This didn't work."
signpost: whoops.
signpost: thimbronion: not saying don't document. it is documented.
signpost: here, in urbit, elsewhere, the neofeudal larping fails.
signpost: I suppose I ought've been more specific. document to the inmates.
asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform aint an aficionado of 'simple moral of the story' but would, if must, say it were rather 'talking about escape != escape'
asciilifeform: and moar generally 'talking about x != doing x'.
asciilifeform: and secondarily, that what 'we' were doing primarily was stroking a maniac's ego, and that anything else was done -- strictly incidental byproduct. and at all times maniac was struggling to optimize for 'moar product, less byproduct'.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-03-25 17:10:19 asciilifeform: meanwhile in mp lulz : open admission of 'always hated the lot of you, only tolerated while ego was properly stroked'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053749 << imho there are two separate things worth documenting -- 1) the few worthwhile things we did and still worth doing (e.g. trb) 2) the atrocities (see above.)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 11:44:38 signpost: specifically, what use is there in documenting the history of a failed escape from communism, except to give the communists a bedtime cautionary tale.
asciilifeform: for asciilifeform , interest of (1) strictly outranks (2), and life is short.
asciilifeform: ( on top of this -- the atrocities are largely self-documenting. hypothetical archaeologists can read the very same log , and watch with own eyes mp blithering re the divine right of sociopaths to rule, or making three order of magnitude arithmetical mistakes, or discussing breaking a working otp, or the denoument of s.nsa, etc. and make monkey noises w/out any prompting or 'folger's notes' from anyone )
asciilifeform: already his texts 'torn apart for quotes' (orcish term) a la aristotle, folx will make memecats of the 'sexy' ('a is a!') and try to ignore the batshit (analogous to aristotle's teeth-countings, insects with 4 legs, etc)
asciilifeform: hello jon . who might you be ?
jon: hi
jon: just a reader of your blog thing
asciilifeform: welcome to #a , jon . i presume you already know about the searchable logs.
jon: thanks, indeed, thats how i hacked my way into dulapnet
jon: yes
jon: tyvm!
asciilifeform: jon: say a little re your interest subjs ?
jon: coding, electronics, fixing shit etc
jon: dunno
asciilifeform: was looking at yer coad, but not easy to guess what was for (signal processor??)
jon: ah
jon: this is the piss pouring coding task
asciilifeform: some what appear to be kernelisms also. but i'ma let jon tell about own items if/when he feels like.
jon: me and some buddys make these little competitions sometimes
asciilifeform: jon: if not mega-seekrit : what part of the planet are you from / in ?
jon: hehe, not much to say about it. mostly dumb stuff but im learning
jon: norway
jon: exactly exactly
jon: should start using the correct terminology
asciilifeform: again if not seekrit, whatchae do for a living, jon ? petrodrill programming?
jon: nah just a humble NEET loser atm
asciilifeform: a so a free man, neato.
shinohai: Being NEET a step above working in socialist saltmines I'd say.
asciilifeform: shinohai: three steps.
jon: couldnt agree more
asciilifeform programs for money, but jon probably knew this already.
jon: money is cool
asciilifeform: at any rate, jon , don't hesitate to speak, this is a quite low-traffic chan. when replying to threads plz link to the log, and use the [link][annotation] device whenever practical, for readability, and realize that folx can reply hours, days, weeks, later, in log.
asciilifeform: jon: also make liberal use of the 'all chans' log search button; just about any subj you may be interested in is likely to have a multi-year history.
jon: allright thanks, will keep in mind
asciilifeform: jon: re 'money is cool', tip from old man : 'is cool' when you're efficient and don't really need it, and run across a fat bag of it. but less cool if you come to rely on it, and need regularly 'to pay bills'.
jon: ye makes sense
jon: thank you thank you, oketrains are the future
asciilifeform: 'if you stel this idea u wil auto maticaly sign a legaly binding agrement to be KILED vith death and al acumulated profits (likely in the trilions) wil be transfered to me' -- curious didja come up with this yerself or cribbed from mp's thing ?
jon: i didnt crib it believe it or not, this document was carefully drafted in mspaint (winxp edition obviously) prior to my encounter with your ffa series
asciilifeform: well the 'license' text is from a different fella, i stole it. but a++ !
asciilifeform: 'the railroad is invented when it's railroadin' time' or did it go
jon: yeah i see, well stolen
jon: it sure is
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053703 << I think it's pretty similar in EU, but haven't looked recently
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 10:42:23 asciilifeform: punkman: in usa, if you have any kind of official presence there, when you buy xyz for coin from a usg.corp, they file a 'form 1099' tax report to declare that you've 'sold' coin and received its usd equiv. as 'income' (whether or not it in fact sold in the usual sense) and you eventually get a bill for up to half (!) of the sum.
asciilifeform: punkman: iirc in germany 'long hodl' btc exempt from tax. but again ianal.
asciilifeform: ( how one goes about Officially proving 'length of hodl' is also unknown to asciilifeform )
punkman: whatever they come up with is gonna have more holes than swiss cheese
punkman: last few years I've had to pay income tax even though I declared "loss" at end of accounting period
asciilifeform: punkman: afaik in all reich satrapies tax liability is 'guilty until proven innocent'
asciilifeform: punkman: it's, roughly, what killed naggum, for instance.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-09-24 asciilifeform: http://perpelle.wordpress.com/artikler-og-leserinnlegg/erik-naggum-in-memoriam/#comment-145 << aha this is where it was. (story of naggum and his death by tax.)
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-09-21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129896583995790@naggum.no.html << naggum & the tax men
punkman: didn't have to pay this year, maybe because covid, didn't care enough to figure it out
punkman: it goes something likes this "if you are walking and breathing, you need at least 4000 euros to exist, so we will imagine you made 4k, even though you had loss of 2k, and you will pay tax on 4k"
asciilifeform: punkman: the Official presumption that savings dun exist (and so you couldn't possibly have lived on'em) is perhaps recent but moar or less universal and not even baseless
asciilifeform: re 'holes' -- they work only for the enemy. (i.e the people for whom you are even being taxed to begin with)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-09 16:23:18 asciilifeform: the whole 'offshore' thing is as old as income taxation (which from day 1 was simply a lizard ploy to hamstring the middle class -- and a successful one)
asciilifeform: whoever thinks otherwise, will eventually learn on own skin.
asciilifeform: gonna paste the naggum thing , for perma-log :
asciilifeform: via Pernille Nylehn (his ex) : 'I don’t think I’m revealing a big secret when I tell you that Erik ran in to very serious problemes with the Norwegian IRS. Very serious. They claimed he had earned more than he’d reported to them, and he claimed he didn’t. I absolutely think he was innocent, he was very particular about truth.
asciilifeform: But you can’t argue with the IRS. They are always right.
asciilifeform: 'Erik of course, argued. For years and years. And he wouldn’t pay ANY tax because they were so unreasonable. And then of course he did become guilty of tax evasion, and their tax claim just grew and grew. As a refsult, he couldn’t own anything because it would be confiscated, couldn’t earn money because they would take most of it … and so on. After some years, everything in his life was influenced, and poisoned
asciilifeform: , by this. I won’t say he was paranoid, but he became very wary and suspicious, and had real trouble trusting people. And his medical condition just got worse and worse because of this situaton.'
asciilifeform: 'I think I’ve said enough. And I think this is enough for you to understand why he turned som bitter and forlorn.'
asciilifeform: and lulzily, apparently there's mp comment in there.
punkman: norway is different planet from where I'm sitting. Doctor appointment today: player's choice, 200 with debit card, 150 cash
asciilifeform: similar iirc in current ro, or ru, or bingoboingostan. a++ if you have the 150/200
asciilifeform: the numerator aint very informative, tho, w/out the denominator.
asciilifeform: for instance this figure (assuming eur) is roughly same as typical orc's month's pay in these locales.
punkman: there are people here working 4h/day supermarket job for 450 gross / ~200 net
punkman: I don't even know how that can work
asciilifeform: punkman: dole with work-camp component. we have these in usa also.
asciilifeform: it aint 'employment' in the usual sense of the word, neither of us likely could get that 'work'
punkman: few might get 100-200 in welfare,
asciilifeform: workfare.
asciilifeform: (i.e. 'workwashed' handout)
punkman: actually, no they wouldn't even get welfare, unless they were unregistered workers, which supermarkets don't do
asciilifeform: punkman: what i meant is, the 'job' is a handout disguised as a job
punkman: when I meet one of these, I tell them they'd make more begging in less time
asciilifeform: and aint avail. to allcomers
punkman: that ~250 going to social security sure tastes different when public hospitals tell you come back in 6 months
asciilifeform: the notion that people 'taxed for own good' is thinner than the cardboard american plebehousing is built from.
asciilifeform: only children (and perhaps down's syndrome sufferers) believe such thing.
asciilifeform: you are taxed to pay for 1) bezos's (gate's, abromovich's, berlusconi's, mp's) yacht 2) the men to shoot you if you try to go near it (or slow about paying) 3) vermin to infest your street to goad you into paying higher rent (or real estate), another type of tax .
asciilifeform: that's the alpha and omega of tax.
asciilifeform: ( and -- apparently this ancient 'memecat' has all kindsa modern-day variations ! )
gregory4: asciilifeform: this discussion makes me wonder what % of jobs out there (both low- and high-paying) have element of sinecure.
gregory4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-09#1044577 << does it not follow then that the America of the 1800s was a less exploitative and more honest society than that of today?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-09 16:23:18 asciilifeform: the whole 'offshore' thing is as old as income taxation (which from day 1 was simply a lizard ploy to hamstring the middle class -- and a successful one)
verisimilitude: Hello, jon.
verisimilitude: It may be found amusing, gregory4, that I saw the word ``pedicure'' recently, and realized its Latin origin from pes/pedes (foot) care; this had me immediately realize ``manicure'' is from manus (hand) care and ``sinecure'' from (without) care.
jon: hey verisimilitude
bingoboingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053835 << Bingostan psychiatrist 2000 pesos/hour cash rate. Bingostan dental cleanin/exam 1100 pesos cash price. 1 USD today buys 42 pesos
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 14:52:07 asciilifeform: similar iirc in current ro, or ru, or bingoboingostan. a++ if you have the 150/200
bingoboingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053858 << Yes, fucking off to the woods and building your own America your way was still an option
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 15:56:08 gregory4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-09#1044577 << does it not follow then that the America of the 1800s was a less exploitative and more honest society than that of today?
bingoboingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053728 << Dunno how much table can be set. MP was a very capable librarian of his own thoughts, offered an extensive publicly readable notebook in Trilema. Do I answer his queries in Trilema/Log links?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 10:48:50 asciilifeform: meanwhile, this fella replies. if he appears while asciilifeform is out, folx, plox to set a table for him.
bingoboingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053744 << If someone is doing the [insert streaming service] documentary, I would be happy to film my part in the style used by Bo Burnham in his most recent project, including musical numbers.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 11:39:51 signpost: somebody doing the netflix documentary eh? lol
bingoboingo starting to come to the position that the moment the 20th century went to shit was Nixon's war on drugs. The transition from prop planes in the 1950's to moon rockets and the SR-71 was likely fueled entirely by easy over the counter availability of stimulants
thimbronion: How does asciilifeform envision transmitting presence status of already connected IRC clients to clients newly connecting on a different node?
thimbronion: in alcuin-9995, doesn't matter if your client is aware of everyone in the chan, the message still gets through. But it would be nice to see who's in the channel somewhat reliably.
bingoboingo: thimbronion: I wouldn't call MP cancelled. In the vocabulary of folks who talk like that "cancelled" is a sort of exile for the living. Having died MP instead is merely "Problematic" now. Problematic means they are allowed to engage is good ideas, but only by presenting how he was "problematic" alongside. "Cancelling" of historic figures is simply a fringe tactic that they use to make their "cancelling" of the
bingoboingo: living seem reasonable.
thimbronion: bingoboingo: problematic is apt.
bingoboingo: Dating has become much easier since I embraced being problematic irl
signpost: bingoboingo: that bo burnham special was outstanding imho
thimbronion: bingoboingo: ¿por ejemplo?
signpost: and yeah, nixon has a lot of blame to lay at his feet. wrecked the currency also.
bingoboingo: signpost I've spent a substantial portion of the last year doing something not all that different live on camera, only recently decided to start actually recording and editing
signpost: yeah, caught a few of your youtubes. gonzo-ing around UY seems like it would be pretty fun.
signpost: can show all the derps still in the zone (like me) what being free(r) looks like.
bingoboingo: thimbronion: Smart university girls with English language learned from TV get impressed by how I say shit they've been told is bad
punkman: https://archive.is/Nsisq "Blockstream plans to launch a new crypto miner in the third quarter of 2022, said Chief Executive Officer Adam Back in emailed comments. That “will be very disruptive as traditionally miners are made in Asia,”"
punkman: also "raised $210 million as part of a Series B financing, giving it a valuation of $3.2 billion. "
mats: can you actually send tx with a blockstream kit?
punkman: mats: you mean their satellite thing?
mats: yeah
punkman: mats: it's only for receiving blocks iirc
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053858 << imho not even proper to compare : in 19th c was still possible to be physically on the landmass but not give a fuck what happens in washington or newyork
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 15:56:08 gregory4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-09#1044577 << does it not follow then that the America of the 1800s was a less exploitative and more honest society than that of today?
asciilifeform: oh hm loox like bingoboingo already said this.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053868 << i was assuming that he was looking for sumthing ~other~ than what's already in mp's heap. (then again maybe not, and already found)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 17:31:51 bingoboingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053728 << Dunno how much table can be set. MP was a very capable librarian of his own thoughts, offered an extensive publicly readable notebook in Trilema. Do I answer his queries in Trilema/Log links?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053872 << i rec to consciously remind yerself that you're taking a dopaminergic and inevitably will feel moar 'gimme a place to stand on and can move the earth!' than factually is the case
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 17:51:43 bingoboingo: starting to come to the position that the moment the 20th century went to shit was Nixon's war on drugs. The transition from prop planes in the 1950's to moon rockets and the SR-71 was likely fueled entirely by easy over the counter availability of stimulants
asciilifeform: ( see also : well... g. laddel ! )
asciilifeform: bingoboingo: think this way -- you want to be p. erdos, not g. laddel..
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053873 << simple -- who echoes packets -- is 'there', who does not 'not there'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 17:55:52 thimbronion: How does asciilifeform envision transmitting presence status of already connected IRC clients to clients newly connecting on a different node?
asciilifeform sadly not finished the essay about this yet !
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053881 << not clear to asciilifeform that 'nixon wrecked...' rather than simply put before the fact and ritually 'presided' over said wrecking
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 18:14:46 signpost: and yeah, nixon has a lot of blame to lay at his feet. wrecked the currency also.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053884 << iirc signpost hasn't been to bingoboingostan yet! i rec to go there !
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 18:16:42 signpost: can show all the derps still in the zone (like me) what being free(r) looks like.
asciilifeform: for asciilifeform, was a++ voyage, both times
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 18:19:51 punkman: https://archive.is/Nsisq "Blockstream plans to launch a new crypto miner in the third quarter of 2022, said Chief Executive Officer Adam Back in emailed comments. That “will be very disruptive as traditionally miners are made in Asia,”"
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I suppose I could allow server runners to associate nic's with other servers but I don't think that's quite what you mean. Nothing that can't wait until the essay is published.
thimbronion: *nicks
asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'tis funny, this is possibly the 1st case on asciilifeform's watch where proggy outran spec project !
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-25#1053890 << imho the correct medium of transmission for trb in fact would be pirate 5-30MHz.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 19:44:48 punkman: mats: you mean their satellite thing?
asciilifeform: p2p, naturally, rather than similar to the linked inca-monstrosity.
dulapbot: Logged on 2019-11-18 17:16:03 asciilifeform: superkuh: re: mesh nets, so happens that i've dug into the subj, but w/out publishable results just yet.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: would be fun to try to broadcast alcuin packets over the radio.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: these are point to point tho, not very broadcasty
asciilifeform: ( erry key is shared b/w 2 stations strictly )
asciilifeform: whereas in bitcoinism , a tx is a tx 'one for all of us, like victory'
thimbronion: asciilifeform: true, but couldn't radio serve as a link between two nodes, which of course would be connected to other nodes via whatever local net.
asciilifeform: could, of course, radio, but you'd want a moar local uhf kind, rather than 'ionospheric' shortwave
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