Results 1 ... 250 found in asciilifeform for 'rsa' | →
dulapbot: Logged on 2023-05-25 01:41:55 vex: prolly noped out of conversations with folks with clearances just because he understands
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-05-25#1114937 << usa dunhave a 'official seekrits act' a la uk. asciilifeform luvvs 'conversations with folks with clearances', esp. if the latter are drinking.
vex: prolly noped out of conversations with folks with clearances just because he understands
mats: i know a greek guy that got an F-1 visa, studied in usa, worked for a while, couldn't get it renewed, loaded up his card with stuff worth almost five figs like described in mp's "universal plan for wealth", and went home without repaying
d4: Already did... I'm thinking if I need to setup portforwarding too or if nat traversal is working already
d4: So is it official? The conversation is moved to Pest?
asciilifeform: phf: likely because he aint peered w/ dulapbot , and so it walks from the latter to asciilifeform then to him, and each time sits in the hearsay clink
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-05-19 asciilifeform: the multiplication problem is incidentally a textbook instance of 'specificity of diddling'. if someone offered any of you a cpu that has a 'rsa instruction', you'd barf. because very clearly paints a target for the enemy, giving him info he has no business having re what you intend to eat, when, with what spoon
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-08-02#1112945 << by my upbringing, it's not quite the height of politeness to suddenly declare, "I'd have so much more energy for this conversation if calories were on tap, and someone had already paid for the barrel."
adlai: wow, this conversation really was worthwhile... I almost forgot part of my visit to NYC.
adlai: and the conversation ended around "you did not understand, I did not ask what you want, I asked what you need, and you simply quoted minimum wage, so go suck a government, bitch."
adlai: and the conversation roughly went the way of the chat-user-interface.
vex: 40k little recorsa ALL rocking rhtymn and jazz
asciilifeform: ... not to mention that it reqs const-spacetime yet fast (line-rate) bignum, similarly to rsa
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: with RSA, messages would no longer be opposable.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-12 13:28:57 asciilifeform: punkman: the whole protocol is one big 'weird contortion' around the fact that we can't do rsa at line rate but 'want to play anyway because fuckerryone'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-18 16:15:41 asciilifeform: the main obstacle currently is that non-leaking rsa is slow on pc.
asciilifeform: vex: rsa does 0 unless erry single packet signed.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-19 16:48:19 asciilifeform: ( meanwhile, since perhaps it aint obvious, asciilifeform will explicitly remind readers : pest is arguably an atrocity, in that the Final Solution to the problem it intends to solve, is constant-time-rsa-at-line-rate. and nothing else. but this'd cost 1e9$+ to produce the required iron, and then somehow to get it to erryone who wants to play! so asciilifeform posed the question -- what subset of the desired functional
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-13 15:04:34 punkman: it seems to me that any solution that is not "find way to live with hearsay", will amount to pubkeycryptosystem
asciilifeform: if cgra or anyone else can think of a cleaner solution (that does not require rsa) asciilifeform is all ears.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-07 00:36:20 phf: well, there's some ongoing conversations (though maybe i misunderstood, because didn't pay close attention), that maybe irc requirements baked in are an overhead, but you can build subset of pest that will talk to net without being spec conformant
phf: well, there's some ongoing conversations (though maybe i misunderstood, because didn't pay close attention), that maybe irc requirements baked in are an overhead, but you can build subset of pest that will talk to net without being spec conformant
thehorrors: I don't think you want to have any conversation with me whatsoever, so why bother?
signpost: eh, I'm not doing another one of these "what does the news mean to me" conversations.
phf: well, i don't think the man can stick by the rules, he butted into my conversation again
crtdaydreams: verisimilitude: A conversation implies a dialogue. Not a monologue.
verisimilitude: Secondly, that's clearly not true. Everyone here is a part of the conversation, by default.
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-03#1110427 << see this is called conversation, which is what i was having with crtdaydreams, of which _by default_ you're not part of. i know that on reddit anyone can say anything at any moment within any context or thread and the one with most upvotes wins!111 but when men talk nobody fucking cares what some random fuck has to say.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-03 02:21:16 phf: arguably manners emerged from the fact that armed men used to have a need for conversation within closed proximity of each other. i was reading this book on the history of sepuku which highlighted this point, e.g. a noble at a table got offended at something or rather, threw a sword at his counterparty, missed and hit emperors ornate divider, had to comit sepuku
phf: arguably manners emerged from the fact that armed men used to have a need for conversation within closed proximity of each other. i was reading this book on the history of sepuku which highlighted this point, e.g. a noble at a table got offended at something or rather, threw a sword at his counterparty, missed and hit emperors ornate divider, had to comit sepuku
phf: because the trickiest use case is the part where verisimilitude is particularly annoying: you're having a conversation with somebody interesting, and then verisimilitude pipes in with "i have a latin dictionary and CANIS means dog", so your counterparty decides to engage that point, and suddenly you have this complicated merge, where a single response semantically belongs to both ignored and not ignored categories
phf: crtdaydreams: aah, well, in reality the experience mostly highlighted that killfiles don't work. what do you do about conversation threads?
phf: verisimilitude: you can go fuck yourself whenever you feel like it, i mean i'm not keeping you. i'm just fucking still mad at how fucking idiotic your advice is, and your general reddit tier contribution. to conversation, or to life.
verisimilitude: This isn't a medium for one-to-one conversation so much as for group conversation.
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-03#1110335 << "at least one other", name names or gtfo. why _you_ specifically? because _you_ butt into my conversations with _other_ people with innane and idiotic, reddit tier comments, so i'm therefore i'm talking to you.
phf: which is by the way his modus operandi, a fucking reddit tier conversation. i don't think he even cares about the particular outcome, just to fucking pipe in with some kind of opinion, any kind
asciilifeform recalls a naive relative who 'hey wai dontcha publish yer closed-form rsa in an actual journal' etc lol
crtdaydreams: any conversation, or meaningful thought is plugged with "it doesn't matter, the heat death of the universe will get us all in the end anyway, so nothings worth trying la la la la"
phf: asciilifeform: you mean like the last conversation on apl where verisimilitude literally just restated my original point?
asciilifeform: phf: dunno how much conversation would remain if errybody killfiled his 'insufferables' lol
phf: signpost: have you *ever* had constructive conversations with verisimilitude, why is he still not on your ignore? that's not a rhetorical question, i'm just curious
asciilifeform: 'Elliptic curve cryptography requires a much smaller key size than RSA or DSA for equivalent security.' << ancient nsa agitprop repeated endlessly all over the net, without ever the slightest scrap of proof.
asciilifeform: ( irc, recall, has no intrinsic notion of log, 'here's an old msg you missed', or of threading, or of hearsay relayer lists, etc )
asciilifeform: shinohai: was thinking re 'move ircism to an annex in spec and replace with universal frontend' but opens q 'what is 'universal frontend'
phf: verisimilitude: i'd rather not tie previous conversation to it in logs for anti-search purposes. i've described some obv impl details, that were apropos, but it wasn't really my place
phf: verisimilitude's actual considered point (because he wrote some apl, isn't just talking out of his ass like on other subj) is that apl is particularly suited for vectorization, is also unsurprisingly how the fucking conversation started.
phf: this was a grownup conversation until verisimilitude joined. luckily i left to get sandwiches, and i no longer care, but damn
phf: ... every fucking idiot is quoting linus right now about avx512 "oh herp derp linas sad avx512 bad", but linus has very specific concerns, talking from his systems engineer perspective: avx512 is kind of like bolted on, makes another set of disjoint instructions, without updating avx2 (well that's not entirely true, but for the sake of conversation), and i don't know what else other kind of constraints there exist in linux. if one were
asciilifeform: whereas 'aa' can buy even in godforsaken argentinistan
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-11 14:14:45 asciilifeform: wonders whether in some forsaken shithole there is still a uni where 'we didn't know the war ended' and lisps etc. ( maybe inria ? iirc as late as '10 was )
mats: happy anniversary, did someone get a cake?
adlai|text: it is beyond my pay grade to determine whether conversations between Vexual and verisimilitude are a milestone of intelligibility for one, tolerance of unintelligibility by the other... possibly both.
adlai|text: holy crap, vexual and verisimilitude having a conversation
verisimilitude: Well, was the conversation written professionally, or as in this channel?
asciilifeform: phf: bug; [x|y|z..] normally marks receipt of multiple copies of hearsay msg when >1 peer sends. which obv. aint aboutta happen on a station with 1 peer (not to mention oughta mark distinct senders)
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-19#1107606 << was just idle curiosity, i wasn't following the conversation too closely, so didn't realize it was a bug. i thought it's something i need to be aware in implementation
asciilifeform: ... evidently bug not only in dedupe, but also where causes hearsays to be relayed >1ce
phf: can someone explain the mechanism behind the naming in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000562 i assume the [xx|xx|xx] is hearsay going through xx, but why would it go through asciilifeform three times?
asciilifeform: ( neither president, nor fieldmarshal, etc. is coming to erry godforsaken shithole to personally order nuke launched , nor would the crew do anyffin to such a claimant other than laugh at impostor and shoot if he persists )
asciilifeform had done the strace-as-ersatz-logger thing before
phf: there's by the way a further point to http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-14#1106883 and why this conversation is unproductive
phf: i think the conclusion of this conversation is "read my, asciilifeform's, spec 5 times? of course one should, not to say that not reading it marks one for some kind of imbecile, a dimwit, a person of poor taste, and even lesser standing, that is not what i, asciilifeform, say at all, but would i be surprised if one were to do it, out of own volition? not at all, for it is written by me!"
phf: asciilifeform: i'm not sure who this directed to, but it kind of seems like it's a conversation with me still?
crtdaydreams: I apologise for my insolence asciilifeform, phf. I've only meaningfully read through the pest spec once, other 4 times were simply a perusal from nothingburger conversations. It's evident that I have nothing to contribute and will take my leave.
phf: asciilifeform: i didn't ask that question, your bringing it in from previous conversation. i repeat, i asked "why would you read spec 5 times and not do anything with it"
phf: and so it starts, i will excuse myself from this conversation :)
phf: not sure where this conversation is going though :> it's hot, and my basement office is not ready yet :D
asciilifeform wonders whether in some forsaken shithole there is still a uni where 'we didn't know the war ended' and lisps etc. ( maybe inria ? iirc as late as '10 was )
phf: i had this conversations with russians a lot where go "mit is no longer premier educational instutation, lost its way sometime in the early 2000s", have examples and explanations, but hard to argue against years of succesful marketing. point being that "mit" "released" while "mit" was a bunch of hackers doing whatever the fuck. aaronsw affair was not a watershed moment, but ought to have made point obv to everyone who wasn't paying
billymg: as part of this i also fixed the "from:user" search for pest chans so that it ignores the hearsay handles
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-09 23:14:18 phf: "old posts" seem like a common denominator in all these conversations
phf: "old posts" seem like a common denominator in all these conversations
phf: i can kind of see that, but on the other hand this goes back to my conversations with signpost. i can't fault people for trying to find meaning, particularly if it is outside of "my funkopop collection will soon be complete"
phf: signpost: i can only read what verisimilitude says by visiting logs, ftr i don't necessarily dislike the guy (certainly won't put conditionals into my code), he just has this peculiar skill to say infuriating shit while i'm mid conversation with /somebody else/, like exactly what happened right now, which throws my line of thought, and generally derails conversation. which by the way precisely what happened right now.
phf: signpost: on the flip side if conversation ever becomes "oh didn't hitler say that?" then all rational discourse goes out the window e.g. yours and mats contribution so far has been "hitler!" and "black person touch you funny!"
phf: "you're wrong but even if you're not you're still wrong", man, why did i even enter this conversation :>
phf: that's why contracts are universally invalid without time frames
shinohai: Same, I thought duplicating a friends BASIC cassettes (and vice-versa) was the height of technology at the time.
asciilifeform recognizes the 'inelegance' of the h(s) scheme , 'yer trying to get the win from rsa sigs w/out paying price of rsa, and will never be as good as Real Thing' but imho over9000x beats 'nuffin'
asciilifeform: i.e. the sort of thing that wouldn't exist in 'ideal' net where erything rsa'd etc
asciilifeform: phf: observe btw that a good % of hearsay on the current pestnet is 'from my peer but somehow peering aint working atm'
phf: i think peer/hearsay is an elegant model, specifically allows for all kinds of interesting hearsay, e.g. toilet http client, personal telegram translator, etc. i suspect if you start restricting "what kind of hearsay" will limit the use cases significantly to essentially "better irc"
phf: in my mind any station can claim whatever hearsay, and if it doesn't play nice, then you talk to the operator, tell him to stop pushing "i hear asciilifeform said i'm a poopy head" messages
phf: i'll have to digest that thread, at present i don't see a point of hearsay coordination
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-06#1104827 << i was thinking to integrate it into btcbase logger, so messages are kept in logger, and when speaking either as "a111" or as hearsay
verisimilitude: Well, I keep trying to properly imagine useful ``non-von Neumann'' architectures for such tasks, and some services wouldn't need calculations beyond traversal or whatnot done by hardware that doesn't need memories that are only capable of identity and nothing else.
deedbot: crtdaydreams rated verisimilitude -1 << shit stirrer: e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-31#1104448, occasional meaningful insights drowned out by tendency to "miss the memo", can't bring up a conversation about programming without a shameless plug to his website -- verisimilitudes.net, imageboard moderator.
verisimilitude: Considering current conversations: correct.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-28 18:04:47 phf: tbh i was hoping this conversation will go into a deeper jeff rasking/oberon/single use machines kind of direction :)
phf: tbh i was hoping this conversation will go into a deeper jeff rasking/oberon/single use machines kind of direction :)
shinohai: billymg: strangely enuf using smalpest I no longer see you as hearsay!
shinohai: billymg: yeah I always kept seeing you as hearsay ... everyone else worked fine :/
phf: oh man i just learned that he's french canadian, yeah, i'm now so mad, i can't even continue this conversation.
signpost: just good old wot traversal; nothing wrong with it.
phf: i frankly don't know anymore what this conversation is about. because i was answering the question "how does piz makes sense", which was sort of dropped. instead we opened up a bunch of new threads.
phf: signpost: well, i can talk about these things if we just accept that the subject of conversation was changed, rather me failing to understand how it connects with nietche and lying
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-11 17:00:21 phf: signpost: i don't know how this conversation turned into me defending mp, but here's what i think, i think that you have the kakobrekla mental bug, since you know we are being honest, which manifests in a kind of obsessive "this man was the devil" line
phf: i don't think that interpretation is particularly bizarre (i mean you'd figure since i made it), because we were talking about lying and i couldn't understand how it connects to previous conversation, so as an example you brought up a very particular point from your past, which is very tenuously connected to the subject of lying
phf: the way the conversation started from my perspective is me basically going "your grandpa had a funny way of talking. kids these days! pop was only 2 cents!" and normally a conversation like that goes something like "heheh, yeah, get of my lawn! heheh" but instead it went "he raped me you know. that man raped me"
signpost: the metaphysical conversation benefits from examples if one's head isn't partitioned so.
phf: to some extent i got dragged away from pleasant metaphysics into a conversation how bad man was bad, where's i don't support your further
phf: signpost: i don't know how this conversation turned into me defending mp, but here's what i think, i think that you have the kakobrekla mental bug, since you know we are being honest, which manifests in a kind of obsessive "this man was the devil" line
phf: signpost: i dunno why you got all bristled, i thought we were having a nice conversation
phf: signpost: what would be an example of that in the realm of the previous points in the conversation?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 22:02:03 asciilifeform: chains to begin with were asciilifeform's notion of how to give ~some~ measure of authenticity for l2+ hearsays
asciilifeform: ( and in which, observe, the 'root of trust' is still manually-operated rsa signatures . as it oughta be. )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-05#1099997 << that's what even ~means~ to decentralize -- yes, 'everyone will have own little wot', which is exactly as it should be. there is no actual reason why wot needs 'universally agreed global state' at all.
adlai|textonly: one of my long-dead relatives from the generation that fled Europe made a terrible face and cut off conversation after being told that I was going to Germany for vacation; that kinda made me take a skeptical view of offense on behalf of stereotypes and racism, before I could spell either of those words in any language myself.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-26#1099084 << lotsa potentially lulzy failure modes being masked by the p2pkh thing. and funny how to this day no one afaik baked an rsa alt. (likely from simple fact that shitcoinism is intrinsically braindamaged and no honest people
signpost: thehorrors: I appreciate the conversation.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=mining+is+a+bug&chan=all << you might find some interesting conversations here.
signpost: the medium here has supported conversations on such topics for years, including this one. it's no barrier.
signpost: are you what, afraid to answer what'd be normal conversation away from your keyboard?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-24 12:37:11 asciilifeform: gregory2: at some pt the conversation will move there. so highly rec to get a working station going.
asciilifeform: gregory2: at some pt the conversation will move there. so highly rec to get a working station going.
verisimilitude: Has anyone here ever created a new symbol for the conversation, or only used ASCII and Unicode?
adlai considers the fact that folks work off different, wildly different definitions as one of the great conversational evils; e.g., ...
adlai: ... it could be that classical Latin is a language from early enough in history (i.e., written history, as opposed to hearsay and fossils) that it behaves differently from mein freund hat mir ein hoch gift gegeben, wunderbar!
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-19#1097500 << In honor of the 30th anniversary of Waco siege, I propose calling ourselves "Branch Derpidians".
phf: signpost: i mean it should be obvious from what i said that i actually don't believe that's the case. but now i can also understand why the conversation is mostly about bitching about mp
phf: signpost: i listened to what asciilifeform had to say on subjects, came to my own conclusions. it's definitely not "no republic without mp", because conversation started with "remember how awesome things were before mp usurped power"
asciilifeform: signpost: it's a ru proverb, but not prev. aware of anyone taking it seriously as a universal principle
adlai: tbh, log search is much more useful, in my experience, when you know what you're seeking and only wish to provide others with a link to the previous conversation, and possibly refresh your own memory of the exact quotes.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-19 12:26:37 phf: asciilifeform: i have zero interest in this line of conversation, it smells too much of kakobreka style butthurt. how many ways is there to say "mp bad". this is also reminiscent of the previous horses conversations "riding horses is fun" "but what about all the douchebags??"
phf: asciilifeform: i have zero interest in this line of conversation, it smells too much of kakobreka style butthurt. how many ways is there to say "mp bad". this is also reminiscent of the previous horses conversations "riding horses is fun" "but what about all the douchebags??"
phf: signpost: that's where we were, couple of lines above, before the conversation turned into mp bad derailment.
phf: this is a trope at this point, any time we go about discussing the olden tmsr ways it devolves into mp bad. i think it makes this kinds of conversations entirely unproductive
cdd: it's easy for asci to "fit in head" the entirety of every conversation and date, but for newb the endless trawl is foreboding to say the least
adlai: I dunno that "humans" and "computers" are useful words in this specific conversation; seriously, I am asking for fundamental characteristics of 'AI-complete problem', and those words only kick aside the issue.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-16 20:34:29 phf: god damn looser sniping other people's conversations with innane points, i don't understand asciilifeform how you tollerate this bullshit. if i wanted lainchan, i'd go there.
verisimilitude: Whatever; I'd prefer to discuss programming anyway. Have your conversations going in circles, forever.
phf: god damn looser sniping other people's conversations with innane points, i don't understand asciilifeform how you tollerate this bullshit. if i wanted lainchan, i'd go there.
phf: signpost: would like to point out that i grok why you bought that phone, while if this was a reddit conversation or whatever, i'd just be raging for people performing a superficially similar action :>
signpost: not stepping into the adversarial role for which you have a precached attack, heh!
signpost: yes, there are many useful models, and much interesting conversation involves transforming concepts between them.
mangol: eval isn't more impressive than macros, or vice versa.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-14 23:59:40 asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: the 'qc' memeplex was adapted by nsa & friends to 'fud' actual working crypto (rsa) and peddle questionable and baroquely complicated 'replacements'
asciilifeform: phf: can naturally take sumthing other than rsa (e.g. shitoshi, did)
phf: asciilifeform: i didn't say rsa
asciilifeform: phf: sidechannel leakage of rsa privkey aint analogous to e.g. leakage of co from furnace -- there aint and cannot be a 'safe level to minimize to' other than 0
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: the 'qc' memeplex was adapted by nsa & friends to 'fud' actual working crypto (rsa) and peddle questionable and baroquely complicated 'replacements'
crtdaydreams: ofc if the above issues you mention w/ RSA and algorithmic cracking opposed to just brute-force then sure.
asciilifeform: hypothetically there may exist undiscovered algos (for that matter, even ones that'd nail rsa, lol. then can go back and say that entire class of rsatrons -- 'defective', straight to stoke furnace then)
asciilifeform: phf: tooslow for rsaing packets (as described in pedantic detail by asciilifeform) but in fact currently using for gpg sig verification locally, and eventually will package as proper replacement for gpg both-ways
vex: i dunno if you're being funny. uncorsa have been mentioned >150
phf: so we're in a room, steaming, and discussing all things, twitter and trump and such. and there's a hasid sitting on the very top, face covered, just payos sticking out from the towel. in the silence of a pause of a heated conversation we suddenly hear the hasid saying with a very thick jewish accent: "i know how this goes. fest they come for the trhamp, and then they will come for the jews"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-09 14:10:50 phf: adlai: i'm refering to a kind of markov chain process that's halmark of internet conversation, "all things to all men", the point is to keep the conversation flowing and yourself involved, but not necessarily anything else. "oh you talking about horses? well i think that purebreads are superior to rocky mountains, because on wikipedia it says their hind legs have more twitch muscle. i've read a research paper on horses and let me tell
mangol: the whole manner of conversation is foreign to me
adlai will still read /query conversations, if anyone specifically needs his opinion; this is rare, although remains possible.
adlai: to reduce confusion: I don't disconnect from IRC, I /part from the channel, to reduce conversational complexity by advertising that, although I might read logs occasionally, the chance of me monitoring the conversation synchronously is negligible.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-09 13:42:05 adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-07#1094002 << my favorite still is the one where a tourist couple asks a taxi driver for directions to a restaurant where they can get a salad; after a fragmented conversation in taxi-driver-english, driver radios station, asks (in hebrew), "How do you say Mekdonaldz in English?"
phf: adlai: i'm refering to a kind of markov chain process that's halmark of internet conversation, "all things to all men", the point is to keep the conversation flowing and yourself involved, but not necessarily anything else. "oh you talking about horses? well i think that purebreads are superior to rocky mountains, because on wikipedia it says their hind legs have more twitch muscle. i've read a research paper on horses and let me tell
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-07#1094002 << my favorite still is the one where a tourist couple asks a taxi driver for directions to a restaurant where they can get a salad; after a fragmented conversation in taxi-driver-english, driver radios station, asks (in hebrew), "How do you say Mekdonaldz in English?"
phf: signpost: can you please provide details of your water filter. just did a walmart run to fill a bunch of 5gal jugs, and as i'm carrying them back from the car that damn plastics conversation popped in my head..
phf: shit, one of the early in person bitcoin conversations i had was with one of those post-MOVE west philadelphia black guys, who described every kind of food as either being pranic or not. he started telling me about bitcoin, on account of how it'll liberate the brothers from the jew bankers
phf: in fact the kind of shit i talked to with woke blacks was the kind of stuff you later heard in qanon circles, it's basically robert anton wilson grade jambalaya of conspiracy theories. those conversations were always great fun, because it's like reading philip k dick, but live, and the person riffing has a very different perspective on this things. "see, brother, the jews, they killed jfk, because he was going to liberate the
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-02-15 16:59:16 asciilifeform: 'actual' as in not mdf/particleboard/whatever other names ersatz wood goes by.
signpost: asciilifeform: yep, seems like further attempt to sow fear in adversaries with the nimitz episode. yawn.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-01-17 asciilifeform: 'John Mallery @jcmallery_cyber 25 Dec 2017 Declinism is a psyop of adversaries...it was spread before during the Vietnam war.' << ahahahaha gold
signpost: consider that everything trump needed to arrest his political adversary fell in his lap while still "president", amounted to nothing.
asciilifeform: atm is rather like situation w/ tanks in 1920s. erryone insists theirs 'versatile' etc
mangol: .se make affordable and versatile fighter jets, not sure if they'll get any orders from europe anymore
verisimilitude: I imagine conversations, adlai. Just tonight, I was talking to churchgoers about PASTOR meaning shepherd and using it in various ways, as I was falling asleep; I don't even like churchgoers.
adlai: my point here is that having conversational proficiency as a goal is problematic when you don't have interlocutors.
adlai: my Latin teachers never expected students to speak in Latin during class, and only one of them even encouraged this, at a 'conversational latin club' that mostly consisted of him chatting with a few of the most proficient students while everyone else listened.
adlai recalls one long conversation with a fellow who, at a relatively late age, decided to learn an instrument, after never playing music
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-05#1092882 << can only speak for self, but tho asciilifeform has 0 connection to any kinda aristocracy, e.g. can tell actual food from ersatz, tho gives 0 damn re whether forks arranged correctly; never touched a horse, but wrote/translated poetries; even enjoys to listen to piano, go figure. the larps are orthogonal to this.
phf: in this conversation we marvel that in our respective families stuff that was considered the absolute baseline 40-50 years ago works
phf: (apropos our conversation ken kesey wrote it while working as a night guard at a mental facility while at the same time participating in those government lsd studies)
adlai: when I began discussing this with one of the doctors, as opposed to the nurses, the doctor pretty much turned off the conversation by saying, "spying on you is not ethical. any other questions?"
adlai: my experience with, let's call them "beyond pothead" folks, is that they are not fans of initiating conversations about hard drugs next to computer terminals.
adlai: there's something to be said for having that conversation, where by the end of it, the dealer understands why one of the most frequently repeated pieces of advice is "never sell an amount, to one person, that you would not want eaten in one dose"
adlai: imo, Israel only has one city; the conversation ending with "leave town" did not go as far as "which one, lol?"
phf: it all kind of got erased in 2018 and 2019, so that's what colors most conversations, but i remember when hanbot wrote that story about a child losing his pgp key or whatever. that was a formative, pragmatic point
phf: verisimilitude: no offense, but i have no idea why you're part of this conversation :)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-31 19:17:43 asciilifeform: can make a defensible arg that e.g. deriving a closed form rsa is exactly same thing as spending 3y on reddit or in front of tv. in asciilifeform's value system however not. this, may suppose, makes him 'religious' if you like.
asciilifeform: can make a defensible arg that e.g. deriving a closed form rsa is exactly same thing as spending 3y on reddit or in front of tv. in asciilifeform's value system however not. this, may suppose, makes him 'religious' if you like.
asciilifeform: for instance, if not had done this, would then have tried 'pest w/ rsa' and ended up either rationalizing away the aspect where enemy can trivially derive yer privkey from processing delays, or (as would hope) trying then to convince folx not to use it
asciilifeform doesn't regret 'wasting' the cycles to derive a closed form rsa. even if never 'buys the plane'
adlai: etymology basically tells me that egregore means something that emerges from conversation.
adlai has no idea where Tel Aviv stashes its homeless population; most of my attempts at conversation with them fail, except for one guy, with whom if I start talking, I will literally have to tell him "ok, I am leaving now, if you keep talking, it will be to yourself" because he will simply launch into an interruptible monologue, stopping only to breath
adlai: I had a nice long conversation about Russia, last time I was in the 'drunk tank'
signpost: pretty cool. great for extended conversation.
mangol: i.e. like net neutrality, rehearsal for more comprehensive social credit system
signpost: perhaps one distinguishing feature between ourselves and our adversaries is their ability to act coherently across capabilities.
signpost: "The United States is woefully susceptible to the information warfare of adversaries which would like nothing better than to degrade our capacity to act in our own interest under crisis."
asciilifeform: in orig. blatta, nat traversal to an un-nat'd peer always worked.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-03-14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902463 << limonov had entire b00k on subj, with slightly different twist ( tldr : the 'free world' built 'disciplinary sanitarium' (his term) where ideas-dun-matter-even-if-you-somehow-come-across-one cuz they all get http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ )
asciilifeform: mangol: a major win from such codes is that you dun need a synchronous (i.e. 'hey gimme #123') conversation, just need to say when to start sending random chunks, and ask to stop when done
mangol: re:minimalism, recursion is universal enough that you can make a really compact langauge (R5RS spec is 50 pages) that also yields really compact programs
asciilifeform: and note that no guarantee who will sit on throne if putin poisoned will be similarly moderate (yes). so far very little in the way of countersanctions -- gas still pumped (through ukristan!) to eureich; refined u -- to usa; rockets not yet reinstalled in cuba (why not? high time) ; etc
mats: related https://theconversation.com/russias-energy-clout-doesnt-just-come-from-oil-and-gas-its-also-a-key-nuclear-supplier-179444
signpost would also be perfectly happy on a machine that ran at 1980s specs, aside a few accelerated operations like RSA crypto.
crtdaydreams: a transaction influences and is thus influenced by relationships and vice-versa
crtdaydreams: It is argueable that the transaction is the fundamental unit, and relationship comes after. Vice versa.
verisimilitude: I believe the thirtieth WWW anniversary video was hosted on Facebook.
whaack: my node reports this node as one of its peers, but not vice versa http://bitdash.io/nodes/18.104.22.168-8333
signpost: when airgapped sure, supposing your adversary hasn't turned your RAM into a transmitter to your smart dildo.
whaack: i think this was discussed ad naseum in old logs so i would search around there rather than resurfacing the conversation
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-04 12:38:49 verisimilitude: No, what's insulting is how signpost has treated me as a conversation partner, billymg.
mats: asciilifeform: no lol, they haven’t fought a peer adversary in a long time
signpost: mats: were I on the other side, I'd want to induce domestic troubles in adversaries without significant decrease in my own exports
bitbot: Logged on 2021-01-28 14:44:51 verisimilitude: I didn't mention Jews, but this conversation makes me think of a saying I'd thought of and have been saving since.
verisimilitude: No, what's insulting is how signpost has treated me as a conversation partner, billymg.
bitbot: Logged on 2021-01-28 14:44:51 verisimilitude: I didn't mention Jews, but this conversation makes me think of a saying I'd thought of and have been saving since.
signpost: imagine how easy it would be for an external adversary, should one exist, to cause total destruction on earth given that all of earth's weapons are aimed at one's own head.
verisimilitude: Be an RSA public key text or an RSA public key?
crtdaydreams: what if you want to process random strings like say an RSA pub key?
verisimilitude: Why shouldn't I be able to add this symbol to our conversation: http://verisimilitudes.net/crest.png
jonsykkel: maybe but i still dont undersand
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-21#1080256 << im dont undersand wat new code: 29 is here, a message?
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-10-31 asciilifeform: see, if symbolics corp. had won the war and the notion of 'character' was not braindamagedly bound to 'octet' - we would not be having this conversation.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-10-31#1312603 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-10-31#1312804 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-10-31#1312807 That day had some interesting conversations. It still pleases me to have devised such a representation of text, which even the great Symbolics never noticed.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-24#1080554 << this kind of offhand brings the conversation to a superficial level which I'd already addressed here
verisimilitude: I've been waiting to continue our conversation, jonsykkel.
verisimilitude: These characters have been recycled from another conversation, but I'm not certain anyone would wish me to link it here.
signpost: or perhaps "you are already a key component of NATO: adversary."
vex: would listen again. i think it'd work great as a conversaion too.
crtdaydreams: Alternatively you could take a similar approach but cut right to the quick. A lot of people these days don't have time juggling about email conversations, (though genuine interest is often refreshing) and you'll get ignored. So use due diligence in how you email your recipient.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-08-15#1698508 I'm fairly certain every unary function can be optimized like this, it doesn't matter whether it be array reversal or anything else.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-06 21:28:44 verisimilitude: I referred to the email conversations, adlai.
adlai: I'm due for sleep soon, although I do intend to study what the conversations have led to
adlai is glancing at this, after having skimmed conversations on the topic in the past
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-08#1078470 <<< I'd argue that "core" is the "dissenting implementation of Bitcoin" and not vice-versa.
verisimilitude: Since Lisp makes it hard to make guarantees, this is fine, because I tend to notice if my conversation partner has a heart attack and drops dead.
verisimilitude: Software written in Lisp is usually conversational. The system is a conversation partner.
verisimilitude: One thing I like about that approach I outlined is how it's suited to making software less conversational.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-03#1077972 I just hold on to the idea that anonymous conversations can be worthwhile; I intend to write about some odd aspects of identity related to them, at some point.
asciilifeform: e.g. mp was convinced that this 'universal' nao in all commercial reich, went to davy jones's locker still convinced
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: asciilifeform's pov is that if hearsay can't be decacophonized, it is largely useless
asciilifeform: ^ all of above applies strictly to hearsays.
asciilifeform: i.e. when you get l2+ hearsay which continues (properly, incl. 'unlock's) ~oldest~ chain, you see 'asciilifeform: ...'
bonechewer: But ended up having pleasant conversation with asciilifeform, for which I am grateful
asciilifeform: ^ in which thread, asciilifeform came up w/ interning hearsays and counting the relaying peers, to allow ~some~ distinguishing mark.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-03 13:14:52 asciilifeform: gold standard would obv. be rsa signatures. but these aint practical at line-rate on pc sadly.
asciilifeform: gotta have a means for actually suffixing e.g. bozo-1, bozo-2, when receiving l2+ hearsays.
asciilifeform: ... suppose, for instance, that the msg having ~lower min bounce~ is considered (in absence of immediate msgs from $speaker) to represent the troo branch of a fork.
asciilifeform: i.e. not clear that you'd want to process in-wot hearsay at all.
asciilifeform: orthogonally, asciilifeform still considering variant of this, but corrected -- the idea is, one ought not to process an in-wot hearsay if the speaker corresponds to a 'warm' peer. (you'll either defo get the immed. copy, eventually, or oughta prod him then getdata for it until you do)
thimbronion: asciilifeform: let's say the peer via which first hearsay message from alice goes offline. Now we receive a message from alice that breaks the chain. Alice is permaforked?
jonsykkel: msg, green records and relays to red and yellow. red autoresolves cuz considers blue(a) the genuine blue chain. yellow rejects cuz in-wot hearsay. is this correct understanding? wat happens next, how does anyone know theres a collision?