vex: we still love you crtdaydreams 7/8 is winning
vex: wrench it with a metic
vex: once upon a tiem..
vex: giddy up lads . i'm riding out
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-19 23:13:06 vex: inb4 read da logs
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-19#1111835 << provided ceremonial coin ( asciilifeform still, lol, has it )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-19 23:01:55 vex: Serious question tho. How did snsa come about? mp put some capital, you did the rest?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-19#1111834 << could easily ( just recently got a call from the board house, 'wai you no buy moar' ) but why.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-19 22:59:31 vex: nevermind, you said you won't run fuckgoats again
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-19#1111836 << low cost cuz asciilifeform's time 'phree' lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-19 23:04:57 vex: you had lot's of capital, but you did it all at a pretty low cost
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-19 22:45:40 vex: do you have a mswin driver?
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-20 19:00:15 asciilifeform: it is also the case that rng as commercial product is a very questionable biz proposition. it takes quite a bit of 'adulthood' to even get to a place where you actually benefit from a 1000 $ rng. for instance, microshit victims dun really win anyffin from using whatever external rng.
cgra: asciilifeform: since the pest getdata does, and more or less has to, bypass the staleness check, the whole checking of stales may be useless. even 'future' messages will eventually get through (even if a now omitted getdata future check was specified). OTOH, if you don't bother with checking stales, you now get more accurate reception timestamps of these badly timestamped messages, and more accurate picture of what's (been) going on
cgra: fwiw, in my possibly uneducated opinion, i find the 'my name is' msg type meaningful. cuz a selfchain is a more fitting item to label, than a single msg. while msgs in a selfchain have most of the time the same handle.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-07-15 asciilifeform[signpost|billymg]: can't find thread atm, but at one pt suggested nixing the 'speaker' field entirely, in favour of a 'i'm x' msg type, which folx dredge outta log
cgra: asciilifeform: does this affect your intent to implement the 'chain locking', or still want it the same? if still the same, how do you view 'deterministic S-turd' approaches, like: "S-turd := HASH(S0 + chain_msg_seq_no)"?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 18:48:29 asciilifeform: thimbronion: current notion, summarized: we bite off 64byte from payload, and get 2 new fields, call'em 'unlock' and 'lock'. lock == h256(errything else in msg, incl. 'unlock', and unrevealed 32byte turd 'S'.); unlock = 'S' from yer previous msg.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-07-16 asciilifeform[billymg]: after s.5 support worx, will be at least impossible for l2+ speaker to impersonate yer l1. which is enuff imho, to live with
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-20#1111870 << getdata only bypasses staleness check for msg which the station explicitly issued getdata for.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-20 10:01:44 cgra: asciilifeform: since the pest getdata does, and more or less has to, bypass the staleness check, the whole checking of stales may be useless. even 'future' messages will eventually get through (even if a now omitted getdata future check was specified). OTOH, if you don't bother with checking stales, you now get more accurate reception timestamps of these badly timestamped messages, and more accurate picture of what's (been) going on
asciilifeform: ... which at most times is null set.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-20#1111871 << the trouble is that you gotta issue'em periodically (or folx stuck waiting for potentially quite long getdata chain). on top of this, may not even be able to successfully getdata for a 'my name..' when 'nameless' chain is coming from distant l3+
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-20 10:12:22 cgra: fwiw, in my possibly uneducated opinion, i find the 'my name is' msg type meaningful. cuz a selfchain is a more fitting item to label, than a single msg. while msgs in a selfchain have most of the time the same handle.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-20#1111873 << not decided yet whether it's worth the sweat & compat. breakage. open to argument in either dir.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-20 10:22:02 cgra: asciilifeform: does this affect your intent to implement the 'chain locking', or still want it the same? if still the same, how do you view 'deterministic S-turd' approaches, like: "S-turd := HASH(S0 + chain_msg_seq_no)"?
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-20#1111878 << i kinda assumed constant 'prodding' going on, but don't seem to actually be the case per current spec draft. is it going to be? if regularly prodding, now the advertised, badly timestamped segment becomes subject to getdata, and bypasses the stale check
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-20 10:47:00 asciilifeform: ... which at most times is null set.
asciilifeform: cgra: keep in mind that only direct peers get 'prodded'
cgra: asciilifeform: peer B sent funny timestamps first, then sent a good one to a common peer C of A and B. C now getdatas the funny items and sends the latest, good one to A. A concludes a broken chain, and getdatas also the funny items from C
cgra: (at least for me personally) hard-to-picture scenarios like above, seem to exist how the stale check is bypassed, and hence seems cleaner to not try to force a peer to behave. instead let him spam or let his clock drift, and let the problem show up as is, with minimal indirection and gotchas. then you can decide whether some action required
cgra: irc-variant could simply show console warnings, with given msg and station-local timestamp comparisons
cgra: but ^ i accidentally forgot the replay attack angle...
asciilifeform: cgra: aha, timestampism is specifically against replays, rather than 'make peer behave'
asciilifeform: i.e. a peer can of course construct an arbitrarily-long chain that'll skip the staleness test. but a stranger -- cannot.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in lulazon lulz.
shinohai: Every girl needs a fire extinguisher in her makeup bag.
asciilifeform: verily
d4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-13#1111478 <<< What about Diffie-Hellman?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-13 23:03:32 vex: why exactly is pubkey crypto off the table?
asciilifeform: d4: nothx
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-08-22 asciilifeform: as for diffie hellman, it is nsatronic , and this is fairly well known at this point ( whether because timing side channel, primes-which-ain't, and other sabotage of concrete implementations- or more fundamentally broken - is unknown )
asciilifeform: ... not to mention that it reqs const-spacetime yet fast (line-rate) bignum, similarly to rsa
asciilifeform: ... or that it serves up considerable resources to unauthenticated allcomers