asciilifeform: mats: lulzy demagoguery
asciilifeform: mats: i'd expect a 3e8 $ tub has sumthing to shoot back with, even if not Officially
asciilifeform: 'a letter of marque came from the king, for the scummiest vessel i've ever seen...'
whaack: signpost: did you remove your articles re a republican os?
whaack: can't seem to find htem
PeterL: verisimilitue: I finally figured out what irks me about the way you write: you use "I'd" a bunch of places I would never use the contraction, and sometimes it takes me a couple times reading a sentence confusedly before I realize
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-04 15:39:39 verisimilitude: After using Tor for years, my stance softened. Eventually, I'd to accept I was becoming neurotic, and my traffic wasn't so interesting in any case.
PeterL: you mean "I had" instead of "I would"
signpost: whaack: I did remove them. recall they came of MP demanding that I help newcomer flatterers with their "gales".
signpost: what'd you need from them?
whaack: signpost: don't need them, but i liked the concept of 'tightening the rachet' and working towards a smaller and smaller more understandable OS
scoopbot: New article on billymg: Bitdash Crawler Geolocation, Time Series Data Collection, and an IRC Bot
signpost: whaack: I'll be rewriting them with a focus on Pentacle, probably get to it before the month ends.
whaack: signpost: great, excited to see
signpost: happy to have collaborators too. at present I've got all deps in their own vpatches, and modifications to work with musl in separate vpatches.
signpost: "pbuild" has a rudimentary dep system. whole thing builds and builds itself.
signpost: I just got sidelined onto this "harden fort signpost" project due to current events.
signpost: a little potassium iodate here, a little ammo there, etc
mats: armored benz
whaack: signpost: what work would a potential collaborator do?
whaack: i have some work to finish up with trbexplorer still but soon i'll be onto a new project
signpost: mats: got the tundra dawg, all I need
signpost: whaack: major item left is porting over the cuntoo installer
mats: i briefly thought about ghetto armoring my ride with phone books
mats: and a maritime battery in the trunk for 24h dash cam
signpost: mats: I'm only setting up for a few weeks of instability, after which I'm headed to a family ranch.
signpost: not bad ideas though
signpost: rather, I'm stocked for more, but I have no delusions about, say, eating MREs for years.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1082853 <<< shitcoin "whitepapers" proven to add 2x more penetrating ballistic protection.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 12:08:11 mats: i briefly thought about ghetto armoring my ride with phone books
busybot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 39437.10 USD
asciilifeform: and we're to believe 'no waterfall'
asciilifeform: (or, wat, folx going short on btc and long on MREs ..? )
asciilifeform: ... long on cemetery plots ? or wat.
mats: SP500 and DJI down about 2% today
signpost: https://www.lbma.org.uk/articles/good-delivery-list-update-gold-silver-russian-refiners-suspended << meanwhile metals scarcity being engineered.
mats: theres a lot of turbulence ahead as ru sanctions induced illiquidity works its way through the system
asciilifeform: signpost: bonus: ru removed sales tax from private purchases of au etc
asciilifeform: encouraging folx to load up on subj instead of reich currencies
signpost: good for them. also saw a lul about legalizing software piracy as long as the turd comes from natostan.
asciilifeform: 20y overdue, lol, but yes
mats: people being margined as their shit gets marked to 0, selling treasuries to cover losses
mats: this will be one for the textbooks
signpost: mats: yep, they banned paying liabilities in anything but ruble
signpost: "you know, that thing you're trying to kill, you bastards"
signpost: wouldn't shock me to see UBI proposed seriously this year alongside massive bailouts.
signpost: in the US.
asciilifeform: reich has precisely 1 tool in the toolbox -- printer, brr
signpost: while on the subj, pleb food markets are fucked
asciilifeform: (well, 2, 'let's set planet on fire and get discounted goodies at fire sale' is the other, but aint working out so well atm)
signpost: asciilifeform: the circus better be good because there's not going to be much panem.
asciilifeform: like in prev. reich, over9000 folx very evidently would rather have the circus than the bread.
asciilifeform: signpost: not clear , for instance, how with 'bailouts' usg will make the missing diesel (~unavail. from u.s.-pumped fracked crude) materialize
signpost: they wont, just one of the notes of the death rattle.
mats: i believe ru o&g products are still being delivered, not everything is being shut out
mats: didnt have time to look at the specifics this weekend though
asciilifeform: mats: still delivered (lulzily -- in what and with what are they paying? or is it 'phree' like last 15y of natgas to ukristan?)
PeterL: there will be more notices "supply chain issues, sorry "
signpost: mats: yeah, the guy doesn't seem abrupt
asciilifeform: the muppet circus already making noises about 'banning ru petro' atm
mats: i dont think every ru bank is being sanctioned
verisimilitude: I greatly enjoy being pedantic, so it would just be PAN there, signpost.
signpost: but wager slack in the system continues to tighten
signpost: verisimilitude: mmm fair enough
mats: sberbank and vtb to start
verisimilitude: No, damn it, I just double-checked and that word is PANIS.
verisimilitude: Now I feel silly.
signpost: heh, will be happy to have the luxury to improve my latin grammar again at a later date.
verisimilitude: Those words require more memorization than all other nouns in the language.
mats: no way ru o&g will get banned
mats: iirc eu gets 60% and 30% respectively
signpost: mats: were I on the other side, I'd want to induce domestic troubles in adversaries without significant decrease in my own exports
asciilifeform: mats: reich put pistol to its head, pulled trigger, 'no way will bullet actually come out' ?
signpost: doesn't seem trivial either
mats: er, flipped
mats: more like they shot a leg
signpost: russians and chinese both demonstrate willingness to experience troubles of their own to unseat the US
mats: its not clear putin can come out on top after this
signpost: certainly not much is clear.
mats: sanctions went from 0 to 90 without any escalatory laddering
mats: usg thinktanks believe its in palace coup territory
signpost: mats: could explain why it looks like his own cabinet didn't necessarily know russia would invade.
mats: heard this phrase repeated by brookings and csis munkies across multiple channels
signpost: "usg thinktanks" are also paid to tell the US why whatever it wants to do will work. worth keeping in mind.
mats: i pay attention to them bc what they say today is what usg says tomorrow
signpost: yep reasonable
mats: revolving door being what it is
signpost: same reason I listen to e.g. putin's speeches.
mats: interestingly, india and uae abstained from the un vote
mats: always thought it was dubious .in was brought into the quad, but i guess a triangle is less strategically intimidating
signpost not terribly up to speed on how serious the cn-in disputes are.
signpost: US might just be out of friends. couldn't last forever.
mats: its more the in ru relationship
verisimilitude: Isn't China dependent on the US for food?
verisimilitude: Food independence is the one way the country hasn't fucked itself over in the last half-century, which I see.
mats: glory of geography
signpost: curious whether ru can help replace cn food imports.
verisimilitude: I don't think China needs that much vodka.
signpost: in any case, I'd expect major conflict to be an accident, for obvious reasons.
signpost: unclear whether e.g. snapping up more of eastern europe counts as major conflict, given the demonstrated lack of will so far.
mats: ukraine surpassed us as cn's corn supplier last yr
signpost: yeah, thinking of extended-ru here.
PeterL: US food independence is predicated on having oil to run all the tractors for the industrial ag, if oil imports are shut down then the food supply could suffer
signpost: PeterL: if congress has any self-preservation instinct left they will lift every domestic production limit and send the opposition to a forced labor camp in north dakota
signpost: midterms are not close enough, unfortunately.
PeterL: I don't think the congress critters are that smart or have the guts to do anything like that
mats: verisimilitude: ru has a lot of nonfood commodities exports, vodka isn’t the thing
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1082909 << by similar token su also 'not out on top' in '45. country was thoroughly trashed, took decades to rebuild.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 13:01:39 mats: its not clear putin can come out on top after this
asciilifeform: if ru can successfully definancialize (i.e. never again give half a rat's arse what 'rub:usd' or 'rub:eur' is, or for that matter make rub nonconvertible like in good ol'days) then will remain a country. alternatively if 'libyaized', as per reich's plan, will be eaten.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 18:58:04 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081647 << if the ru folx have half a brain, will do the obv. thing and definancialize gazprom et al.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 14:45:04 asciilifeform: at one pt, reich installed mole (gorby) and 'won', and feasted on the delish minerals + sawed-up su industrial base & manpower for all of '90s
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1082912 << reich indeed seems to be betting heavily on its 5th column. the ones already whining about paying 5x the antebellum going rate for ipnoje xiii etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 13:02:48 mats: usg thinktanks believe its in palace coup territory
asciilifeform: 'sanction oligarchs(tm), they'll poison the king by next tues.'
asciilifeform: the trick is, this only stands a chance of working if the 'poisoners' have reason to think they'll get their yachts, golden toilets, etc back as result
PeterL: asciilifeform: Russia seems pretty big, what would it look like to have it be eaten? Is that even possible?
asciilifeform: PeterL: in '90s went most of the way to 'eaten'
verisimilitude: I read that some Reddit user got his buddy in the Ukrainian army killed, by uploading a photograph the soldier had taken of his location all for those precious upvotes.
asciilifeform: ru not anywhere near fully recovered from '90s free-for-all. which is why vultures circling over it nao
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 12:15:17 asciilifeform: fwiw if ru had its shit together (i.e. had been fully de-eltsinized) there'd be no ukrs, the latter would've been rm -rf'd no later than '14
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: regular occurrence in e.g. syria previously
asciilifeform: over9000 dumbfucks w/ 'stick gps in erry photo' ipnoje etc
asciilifeform: ru demographic loss in '90s exceeded ww2 losses by solid margin. (and this not even counting the seceded territories)
asciilifeform: today is in same ballpark numerically as e.g. japan.
mats: little green men with smartphones in crimea also happened
asciilifeform: mats: even nao various armies trying (afaik in vain) to 100%-deiphonize their ranks
asciilifeform: even in us
asciilifeform: (recall the 'pedometer app' scandal)
mats: yeah lol, strava
signpost: can't have those delicious f35 crash videos leaking out either
verisimilitude: It's amazing that I would have better ``operational security'', meaning don't take fucking photographs and upload them to fucking Facebook, than a soldier.
mats: do you even have social media tho
mats: this isn’t even really the tip of the iceberg, nobody knows how to fight without networks in the field
asciilifeform: better to fight w/ ww2-era plaintext walkies than ipnoje (at least w/ the former, dun have delusion of seekrecy)
verisimilitude: No, mats.
mats: I read some armenian positions were destroyed because of rf emissions
mats: in the short war with azeris recently
verisimilitude: People really have had their minds ruined by technology. I'm reminded of when I was in a small store, and a woman complained that she had to wait on me because I don't have a cell phone; she was too lazy to walk twenty feet into the store.
verisimilitude: Whatever happened to ``We do this. If I'm not back by X, we then do this.''?
signpost: an easy life.
asciilifeform: mats: does us army no longer have concept of 'radio silence' ?
billymg: somewhat related to the discussion of pwned hardware, a few people are working on a sort of coreboot for cars. i went searching for it after some of the recent discussions re: old pickup vs. botnet on wheels
asciilifeform: billymg: dollars to doughnuts, will (or already has..) end up precisely like 'coreboot' itself
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, coreboot already compromised?
asciilifeform: i.e. 'totally open!1111, believe!' despite carrying over9000 opaque blobs
billymg: asciilifeform: gotcha
asciilifeform: billymg: well noshit, it simply won't boot on anyffin newer than apu1 w/out blobware
asciilifeform: so 'compromised' in the maginot line sense.
billymg: still, don't see why an honest version couldn't be made
asciilifeform: cuz notenuff data re irons & their magick#s
asciilifeform: 0 reason to expect anymoar than the usual (i.e. 0) amt of cooperation from the hardware vendors.
billymg: asciilifeform: this one i believe requires its own iron to replace what comes with the car
asciilifeform: could work if data re sensors, engine, etc. somehow determined.
billymg: hardware section of their forum
asciilifeform wonders just how broken/malicious was the factory-standard board, that this kinda thing seems necessary
billymg: asciilifeform: could be just that they couldn't figure out a way to reflash the factory boards, so decided chuck the whole thing out
asciilifeform: rright but what was the impetus for 'gotta reflash'
billymg: botnet on wheels
asciilifeform never once felt any desire to reflash his '03 jp tub
asciilifeform: and it has 0 'connectivity' and likes it that way
asciilifeform: the '07 ford rustbucket also has none, and nuffin to reflash, by the looks of it, nor needs
billymg: i thought even '00 cars were "drive by wire"
asciilifeform: billymg: nope. at least asciilifeform not seen any such thing
asciilifeform: 100% trad. hydraulic
billymg: interesting, perhaps only started phasing it in then
PeterL: asciilifeform: if your car did have built in "connectivity", would you be interested in swapping hardware to remove it?
billymg: i like the concept though, the idea of defritzing the enemy's wares. i imagine it'd make them upset too "hey! that wasn't included in the purchase price!"
billymg: also, as more people start to realize this is a problem, the used / non-fritzed market will eventually dry up. only option will be to buy new and replace the chip
verisimilitude: That's always amusing, billymg.
signpost: no bluetooth or other such shit in my '10 tundo either
verisimilitude: I saw some dipshits on Hacker News discuss this about Apple. ``Didn't I pay enough to not also be the product?'' ``No, you got a discount. The real price for that would be higher, so deal with it.''
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083003 << problem is that such thing typically takes long enuff that the irons are long outta print by the time there's a usable pill
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 14:12:27 billymg: i like the concept though, the idea of defritzing the enemy's wares. i imagine it'd make them upset too "hey! that wasn't included in the purchase price!"
verisimilitude: It turns out there's always more money to be made, so more than enoughis never enough.
billymg: asciilifeform: which irons would be out of print?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 'used' crapple market afaik long-dead, what with the epoxied pnojes with individually fritzchipped parts (i.e. can't interchange), the lappies with soldered-in ssds, etc
asciilifeform: billymg: the auto, in the linked case
billymg: asciilifeform: and they can't have their own made, like FG?
billymg: and run on standard arm chip
asciilifeform: billymg: hypothetically is possible to hand-weld an auto and have it permitted on streets, even in usa. asciilifeform in 25y+ seen precisely 1
asciilifeform: (and doubt that it had hand-made engine in it)
billymg: doesn't need all of this
billymg: just replace the chip
asciilifeform: for so long as the rest of the thing is mechanical -- in principle yes
billymg: buy from toyota, brand new, replace chip
asciilifeform: nao suppose 'drive by wire'(tm) and 'how the fuck do i even talk to the brake pedal' etc
billymg: i believe that's what this project already does (for very limited set of autos)
asciilifeform: if not nao, then next yr, prolly even the headlight knob emits ciphered liquishit instead of 'on/off' contact
billymg: and fuel injection, etc.
asciilifeform: y'know, like ipnoje power switch
asciilifeform: this is indeed quite reminiscent of 'coreboot' -- where gives you 'linux bios' for boxen which had more or less clean vendor bios to begin with
billymg: asciilifeform: that's a fair point, if people start replacing the ecu they'll start fritzing all the individual parts
asciilifeform: (and correspondingly, gives you ~0 for boxen which have thoroughly and brazenly infected vendor bios)
mats: asciilifeform: no lol, they haven’t fought a peer adversary in a long time
asciilifeform: billymg: parts catalogues already quite fulla 'encrypted switches' etc
mats: remember when reapers were broadcasting unencrypted video?
verisimilitude: What's a reaper?
asciilifeform: mats: lulzy if true, cuz even the saddest shitholes have direction-finding gear
asciilifeform: (and over9000x more win from using it if you yerself dun shout on whole spectrum, on top of this)
mats: ah, it was the predator drone, but at the time virtually all of them were shouting in the clear
asciilifeform: mats: this was actually more or less rational corner-cutting -- it wasn't as if the afghans had with what to shoot at it
mats: I read about an experiment to use optical link from leo sats to direct reapers last year
asciilifeform: if worx for subs, wainot for these
asciilifeform: it aint as if 'reaper' needs to do aerobatic flips
asciilifeform: afaik not dive-bombs either
asciilifeform: flies moar or less horizontally until bombed & returns home.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083002 << likely for 20+y will remain possible to buy a clean one. if even live that long.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 14:12:15 PeterL: asciilifeform: if your car did have built in "connectivity", would you be interested in swapping hardware to remove it?
asciilifeform: plenty of '80s tubs still rolling along.
asciilifeform: there's occasional noises from reich re banning'em, but that frog aint properly warm yet, much less boiled.
asciilifeform: ( and if this frog finally cooked at some pt, the cracked controller thing won't help )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-02 11:30:15 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-02#1077761 << ancient/unfritzed autos will prolly be stopped/searched/taxed at checkpoints, eventually
asciilifeform: hard to picture that checkpoints won't simply ask for 'magic #s' but for a plausible log of where the thing went that day, and cross check against plate readers etc
asciilifeform: eventually wheeled vehicles will prolly be treated much as aircraft in reich are today -- if yer a 'ufo' (i.e. not broadcasting 'flight plan') gestapo dispatched and will be waiting nearby wherever you stop
asciilifeform: ... on public roads will be motorized spikes, pits, etc. and 'ooh so sorry that yer a smoking wreckage nao, it's yer own fault you insisted on driving a tub without remote engine kill switch'
asciilifeform: occasional ambulance or schoolbus which ends up in these will be 'non-news' and blamed on ru 'terrorists', a la various malasian boeings
signpost: there's a terror management instinct here which prevents most people from imagining that machine us.mil perfected in iraq, afghanistan, syria, et al being used domestically.
signpost: foolish. it will.
mats: they’ve been flying reapers in us since 2019
mats: and other types of drones used overseas flown for domestic missions, like firefighting to border security
asciilifeform: for looong time nao
mats: palantir’s support of immigration agencies missions has been in the news and a buncha their execs have gone on to do other border security things
mats: yeah, the predator has been doing border missions for like 15y
asciilifeform: and e.g.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-24 13:05:26 asciilifeform: mats: hey afaik in nyc they still have not only 'ausweis, bitte' but xray vans to search parked autos. since mid-2010s.
signpost: yep, I know the hardware's deployed domestically.
signpost: dropping missiles on "domestic terrorists" not yet normalized.
mats: dumb waste of money anyway
signpost: let food get more expensive, rednecks get more angry. it'll happen.
mats: cheaper to mortar
signpost: sure, w/e's cheap. not specifying tactics
mats: or nitro bombs via helo, like tulsa
asciilifeform: why drop 1e5 $ bombs on folx whom can kill simply by flipping a bit in a db for phree ?
asciilifeform: usa folx are to be done in 'bloodlessly', a la '90s ru, with disease (incl. mcd & monsanto induced rot), impoverishment, despair, dope.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 13:43:08 asciilifeform: ru demographic loss in '90s exceeded ww2 losses by solid margin. (and this not even counting the seceded territories)
asciilifeform: lizards already succeeded in e.g. dropping breeding rate (if not counting helots) through the floor; again exactly like in '90s ru (where accounted for majority of the 'demographic pit')
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-30 16:53:16 asciilifeform: observe that in e.g. usa millions impoverished, evicted, deprived of just about errything incl., arguably, a soul. and no one had to drop hbomb on'em to make this happen.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-09 13:27:09 asciilifeform: where lizards slowly 'boiling the frog' to wind down the plebes' expectations in life to correspond to the meager crumbs they are to be given.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 14:12:46 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074632 << the 'thinness' imho is part of the planned rampdown of plebe expectations.
asciilifeform: ... they aint trying to wipe out the bipeds in north amer. wholesale; only the folx who expect '1st world' life
PeterL: I've got four kids, I'm doing my part to keep the replacement rate up!
asciilifeform: PeterL: there were children born in '90s ru also. simply, not anyffin like replacement rate.
asciilifeform: reich already carried out a mass slaughter of the elderly, the diseased, the weak, by closing hospitals under ruse of covidiocy. 0 meaningful resistance.
asciilifeform: continuing, too -- the closed aint afaik reopening anywhere (why would they)
asciilifeform: their current effort seems to be to amp up covid per se with 'vaccine'. afaik not working spectacularly tho
PeterL: the "boomer remover"
signpost checks congress
signpost: didn't work!
signpost: jokes aside, yes, looks a lot like heavy-handed demographic "management"
asciilifeform: PeterL: aka 'pension reform'
asciilifeform: imho there's a larger point to be made : if you're a pashtun, and white devils came to fuck your village, can resist. but if yer an inhabitant of a '1st world' civilization which exhausted its resource base and began to eat itself -- there is no corresponding 'resist' available.
asciilifeform: the only way out of a dying civ , even in principle, is to actually leave. which requires, at the bare minimum, a functioning civ as destination to leave to.
asciilifeform: hence the reich's desperate drang nach osten.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 14:43:20 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: moar interesting is the 'big pic' -- the current war in fact started from 4th crusade, and continues episodically in form of various 'drang nach osten' by impoverished western eureichs, who will not give up dream of 'lebensraum' and delish phree minerals from 'unfairly squatted by orcs' 1/6th of planet3
asciilifeform: lizards are terrified that there'll be 'where to defect to'. even in longest possible term pov.
crtdaydreams: homenet not responding to pings, ICMP remote enabled, anyone got any ideas?
crtdaydreams: tried nmap -Pn, all filtered
signpost: "INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER"
crtdaydreams: fml rm -rf /home/cdd
signpost: these kids really have zero communication skills.
asciilifeform: signpost: often enuff folx aint even trying to communicate, in the sense you an' i are accustomed to
signpost: yep, not for nothing my mind went to "can the net entropy of the universe be decreased"
billymg: if they're only trying to wipe out those expecting a 1st world life then what do they care if there is where to defect to? they should be happy to be rid of them
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 21:09:27 asciilifeform: ... they aint trying to wipe out the bipeds in north amer. wholesale; only the folx who expect '1st world' life
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 21:29:56 asciilifeform: lizards are terrified that there'll be 'where to defect to'. even in longest possible term pov.
billymg: of course this'd be true too, provided they could take all their assets at the border on their way out
billymg: or is it more of a labor consideration? i.e. they don't want skilled labor to have a place where they can go and exchange their labor for 1st world life
asciilifeform: billymg: they want to keep the essential slaves req'd to keep the yachts, jets, etc going
billymg: asciilifeform: if they decimate the population those slaves may end up with a better share than they had prior
billymg: and the masters even more so
asciilifeform: billymg: if uncontrolled decimation (e.g. black plague of 1300s) then exactly this
asciilifeform: if process properly 'saddled' by elite, then not so much
billymg: but even with the current trend it seems like the more useful slaves are keeping up with inflation. if you're a doctor, dentist, plumber, electrician, coder monkey you can fairly easily charge market rates
asciilifeform: they dun keep up with e.g. house price elementarily
billymg: if you're a govt. clerk or burger flipper then you can't really negotiate much, and you'll be wiped out
asciilifeform: if yer just about anybody other than a landlord, i.e. your 'audience' aint 'captive', you can't normally 'hey btw my rates will be going up 50%' and expect to keep client
billymg: it's hard for me to imagine a US that has 30 million instead of 300 million people and the bottom 99% don't end up with a better life than they had before. even if the top % takes the lion's share of the spoils
asciilifeform: oblig. su joak: 'father: vodka's gone up, son. son: father, does that mean you will drink less now? father: no, son, it means that now you will eat less!'
asciilifeform: billymg: nope, objective is still ~300e6 bodies, but 98% of'em helots who live to ~50 and dun expect 6-room house, auto, desk-flyin' work-at-home, etc.
billymg: they need 300M to keep the yachts running?
billymg: what am i missing?
PeterL: billymg: that assumes that there is a static amount of resources, and ignores economies of scale.
asciilifeform: brazil apparently 'needs' ~200mil to keep their yachts flying
asciilifeform: PeterL: current era is very much one of resource exhaustion.
PeterL: higher population can extract resources more eficiently
billymg: needs 200M or is not yet politically tenable to 'remove'?
PeterL: if done right, managed correctly, etc
asciilifeform: billymg: 'keeping the yachts flying' involves plenty of indirect work -- gestapo, informants, expendable factory labour, etc
asciilifeform: PeterL: adding hands to a modern petro rig does ~0
asciilifeform: coal aint mined with picks, either, and so forth
asciilifeform: natgas tankers are ~100% robotic
asciilifeform: could continue but why
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083125 << fwiw asciilifeform doubts that lizard reich has precise numeric targets for net # of bodies. but certainly has composition trend targets.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 17:52:35 billymg: needs 200M or is not yet politically tenable to 'remove'?
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-03-03 asciilifeform: or mrs. thatcher's 'we need no more than 15 mil. russians. to service the pipeline.'
PeterL: look at population densities, by billymg's logic the rurla areas should have a bunch of people with tons of surplus resources, instead it is the reverse, rural areas tend to be poorer/have less access to services
asciilifeform: cuz, elementarily, PeterL , they're bled
asciilifeform: by the center.
asciilifeform: same today as in ancient babylon, egypt, rome
asciilifeform: 'palace economy'(tm)(r)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-24 18:38:57 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: familiar with inca empire? and phrase 'palace economy' ?
PeterL: increased population allows greater specialization, lets you do the stuff you are good at instead of doing all the hard work of stuff you don't like
signpost: sounds like PeterL is making his case to the ruling class.
asciilifeform: actual result seems to be 'over9000' folx who good at nuffin in particular, even at pistolpoint
signpost: fwiw I agree, making the pie bigger is better for all, but who's listening
PeterL: I guess there are exceptions, if you get a bunch of worthless bums, then they don't help raise the standard for everybody and pull the whole downward instead
signpost: should be mining asteroids and other sky-pie, but this is not the current direction.
asciilifeform: pie (petro, rare earths, arable w/out monsantoism soil, etc) has been shrinking for many decades.
signpost: indeed has. and "peak oil" doesn't look like oops, everything went dry, but ever-increasing cost to extract.
PeterL: so the rulers would be benefitted to develop a larger class of useful humans, instead of a yardful of moos
signpost: PeterL: rulers aren't exempt from future discounting. on the contrary, they get way more dick-sucking today by destroying the future.
signpost: apparently nobody yet devised a long-term stable algo for mortals aware of same.
billymg: PeterL: assuming the rulers want to mine the asteroids, and not just continue fucking peasant children
billymg: PeterL: if they develop more useful humans, some of those humans might be inclined (and able) to organize. wouldn't be good for the lizards
asciilifeform: if there were any risk at all of off-planet colonization, lizards would be nipping whole thing in the bud. as in fact a traditional proposed explanation for why reich organized a stoppage of all meaningful research progress in '70s
asciilifeform: they, can only presume, read e.g. heinlein's 'moon is harsh mistress'
asciilifeform: a serious colony might have notions of 'fuck you and your yachts' and the means to make it stick.
asciilifeform: plentiful precedent historically.
asciilifeform: from lizard pov, 'ideal human' is obedient like draft horse, breeds only when instructed to by master, educable to the point of reading street signs and following instructions on assembly line, and dies at 45 or so.
billymg: asciilifeform: sounds like the problem is the lizards
asciilifeform: almost by definition.
billymg stopping short of minecraft poasting
asciilifeform: the division of labour thing is a two-edged blade. some people very much specialists in ~taking~
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 17:58:33 PeterL: increased population allows greater specialization, lets you do the stuff you are good at instead of doing all the hard work of stuff you don't like
asciilifeform: (and see also.)
signpost: most humans were literally bred in captivity by these, which I suspect has much to do with their passivity.
signpost: see also: dogs.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in shitware noose.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083165 Look at anyone involved in handling money for its own sake.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 18:09:30 asciilifeform: the division of labour thing is a two-edged blade. some people very much specialists in ~taking~
signpost: I agree that bankers are a criminal class.
signpost: includes "investment" bankers, and all adjacent professions.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083171 I know what they are, but it still impresses me to see people so skilled at wading in shit. It's an interesting read, junk food for the mind.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 19:09:41 asciilifeform: meanwhile in shitware noose.
verisimilitude: ``The Linux kernel has more tricks: the sendfile() system call allows an application to send file contents into a socket without a roundtrip to userspace (an optimization popular in web servers serving static files over HTTP).''
verisimilitude: They'll add things like this, but never truly generalize it beyond their immediate needs.
verisimilitude: No, they'll only make incremental changes.
verisimilitude: Of course uninitialized memory plays a part in this.
verisimilitude: They can't make it simple, because then it would be slow, and they can't change the model, because they don't want this.
verisimilitude: Hey, asciilifeform, it looks like I need to use System.Storage_Elements.Storage_Array if I want my UDP binding and UDP interface over that to use the same array type without explicitly referencing each other. There's no standard array type of Interfaces.Unsigned_8 to use. I'd welcome advice.
verisimilitude: I could define these types in another package, but I dislike that solution.
crtdaydreams: mkdir /home/cdd
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083099 << don't. get out... often.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-07 17:11:45 signpost: these kids really have zero communication skills.
signpost: story of oz these days eh?
signpost: was prompting you to say more about what network issue you wanted help solving.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-04#1082448 << we may leave this thread closed, but the purpose of the forum is to challenge and defend.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-04 12:38:49 verisimilitude: No, what's insulting is how signpost has treated me as a conversation partner, billymg.
signpost: you might've raised "look at muslim inbreeding" habits for example, or any number of objections. vicious debate is the sound of the group world model updating itself.
signpost: at any rate, something to think about.
signpost: *inbreeding habits"
signpost invites digging in the logs for threads where I was on the receiving end of a thrashing, to great benefit.
signpost: crtdaydreams: so explain your networking problem.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-04#1082505 << I would gladly buy you a drink or three if you have reason to be in Austin, and will let you know if I'm ever near Mordor.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-04 13:19:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-04#1082452 << fwiw the only tuned-in folx whom asciilifeform has even met in meatspace were BingoBoingo and mod6 . doesn't regard this as a dire problem, tho hopes to meet others '1 day, after the war'
signpost figures folks will be wrapped up in wartime matters for some time.
verisimilitude: I've spent too many keypresses on arguments about which I didn't really care, signpost.
verisimilitude: More than anything else, I want to discuss programming and related topics.
crtdaydreams: must bbl