scoopbot: New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: Tabular Programming: Roman Numerals
verisimilitude: Due to CSS and whatnot, the Gopher version is far better.
verisimilitude: I'm quite proud of this article, being much longer than what's usual for me.
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077478 << prolly exactly the angle i was looking from (trb study). otoh, has same effect, and gets you two birds with one stone, when you get to publish the explorer sources >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-30#1077257
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:30:52 whaack: exposing arbitrary sql queries immediately makes me think one is in a 'research and development' mindset
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 13:00:46 cgra: whaack: i'm possibly not aware of all implications, but i keep contemplating a 'pesttronic block explorer' accepting read-only sql queries from wot
cgra: signpost: would it work/make sense to you to make pastes linked in pest messages (seen by your station) permanent?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-29 15:04:28 asciilifeform: sick and tired of the expiring pastes; signpost do you suppose it's possible to mark pastes which appear in log as non-expiring..?
cgra: i can see a theme here: 'i don't have my own yet, can i borrow yours?' explorer. paste bin.
signpost: cgra: yep, I'm of the "why would we put another drop of effort into a centralized service" school.
signpost: pastes are a napkin. if you want it to stick around, why wouldn't you blog it?
signpost: that said, I think an easily mutable hypertext system shared among members of a wot (on top of a pest-implemented DHT) would be a mighty fine thing.
signpost: oughta see all current, centralized items as shitty approximations of the right thing, imho.
signpost: one paste-tron < many paste-trons < making social (in the old, correct sense) hypertext real.
signpost: that said I haven't flushed the toilet on the paster in a while; it just gets jammed up now and again with spam
signpost: I could perhaps add a human test to the thing and stop flushing meanwhile
shinohai rather enjoys having own paste-o-tron for passing along ephemeral, "napkiny" thingz ....
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077534 << yeah, and bit-packing schemes can run into idiocy real quick if done incorrectly.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 23:50:17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077509 << for most bot-to-bot cases, would expect sexpr would work a++
asciilifeform: signpost: from asciilifeform's pov -- the only things which belong in protocol are the ones req'd for pestron to operate
signpost has enjoyed the "nothing until absolutely needed" approach with pentacle. babby just grew a "world file" yesterday, has a sha256 of the src and build-script that yielded the installed item, so it can know when it's necessary to rebuild.
signpost: yep
signpost: re: pentacle going to hold off on a release until I refactor more. there are a few gentooisms it needs yet before properly worth others' time.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077536 << funny that these renting out their cars, rooms, wives, see themselves as business owners, and not the impoverished.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 23:53:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077529 << recently asciilifeform had occasion to purchase anuther auto insurance policy; bulk of the paperwork was filled by 'yes i swear it won't be driven for profit or lent out, yes ack that this immediately voids the policy' etc etc
signpost: as if no other society ever came to this.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077538 << agreed that friend/foe is basically a bit; one can't rent your car with "just the tip"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 23:54:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077518 << thinking about this, the only ratings which have mechanizable meaning are 0 and posint
signpost: where nuance is needed in regards to *classification* of humans known, probably a different layer entirely.
signpost: say, a deeded contract good for 6mos of rentals at signpost's rust-bucket lot, after which deedbot requires a proof of insurance to issue another 6mos.
signpost: good to let separate things be separate, and not try to beat wot into something for machines too.
signpost: if you crash the car, then the human comes along and "-5 caused us $40k loss" and revokes access to the cars.
signpost leery of making the human decisions automatic, likely leads to chinese dystopia.
asciilifeform: signpost: imho the very impulse to 'autoclassify' meat comes from star topology hell
asciilifeform: from pov of well-curated wot, it simply wouldn't occur to anyone
signpost: indeed, smacks of factory farming.
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov, a >dunbar-sized wot, where such 'automations' seem useful, is an atrocity to begin with
asciilifeform: i.e. exactly 'chinese dystopia', where 'cattle management' semi-automated so to give politburo moar time for yachts & cocaine
asciilifeform: and the relationship of such thing to a wot -- strictly cosmetic, rather like a shitcoin's relationship to bitcoin
asciilifeform: worth noting that the star topologists quite deliberately cultivate this confusion (i.e. b/w p2p wot and gestapo automation). for rather obvious aim of stoking anonytardism.
asciilifeform lost count of how many n00bs in past decade 'ohnoez, i won't bake a pubkey, how could i possibly win from having a contiguous public identity, only gestapo can win from it' etc
asciilifeform: ( see e.g. most recent thrd )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-08 17:30:55 asciilifeform: all anonymity does is to destroy the very possibility of human relations.
cgra: asciilifeform: i crunched through hashes and difficulty targets of block heights ~600k..650k and found that ~17% of them had one or more top bits equal. now i'm confused again how is the kingergarten logic peculiar. that many matching top bits suggests to me not every miner aims [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-31#1077390][one top bit lower than the
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 09:10:21 asciilifeform: cgra: this seems like a peculiar way to calculate the 'overwork', considering that the diff is quantized by the upper bits and the bottom segment being 'less' dun help
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 10:52:16 cgra: asciilifeform: re "quantized by upper bits", do you mean mining works more efficiently if in case of minimum difficulty, you aim at or under 000000007fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff instead? ie. guaranteed less top bits than the threshold
cgra: target]
cgra: top bits equal meaning here for example in the extreme case, block 0000000000000000000e95d1cabfbb9dec4469bf0eb17645187acc848aeb1349, whose target value is 0000000000000000000e95de0000000000000000000000000000000000000000
asciilifeform: cgra: when 2+ blox 'meet diff', the 1 w/ 'moar' pow wins
bonechewer: I'm sure this will be an unpopular take, but imho trust is too situational a thing for a single number to quantify it meaningfully. Case in point: Rob Landley, author of toybox, is a competent coder, but also a very damaged person. How does one express that in an integer?
signpost: do you have a personal relationship with the guy?
signpost: and even knowing a person isn't the same as expressing that they're part of your l1.
signpost: yeah, reading this drivel, I'd assume thimbronion would not rate *him*, but perhaps would sign a vpatch of some of his work.
signpost: whoops *bonechewer
signpost: "this item is useful" is quite different than "I know and have dealt directly with this person"
signpost: fwiw I grant the arbitrary nature of ratings, and have considered whether it'd be better as an ordered list of peers.
signpost: this is what we're saying, aren't we? that we regard this one with a bit more trust/esteem than that one.
signpost: perhaps doing so would force folks to choose between folks where they don't wish to, at least publically.
signpost: given that, seems letting people assign numeric values within the positive and negative space is useful, to avoid communicating difference where one isn't perceived.
signpost: regarding whether it's valuable to communicate one's relationships publically, this is imho the only alternative to the poisonous rot of modern, corrupted, false-faced interaction.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-31 21:15:19 vex: seems correct, then I can tell somone one thing and sonelks another
signpost: to have a space that is singular, and public, at all.
signpost is curious whether some folks thought tmsr invented "republic", rather than imitated forms long-standing in history.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-01#1077595 << never once heard of this lolcow, and nfi wai busybox 'needed' to be reimplemented 'from scratch' fwiw
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-01 16:31:34 bonechewer: I'm sure this will be an unpopular take, but imho trust is too situational a thing for a single number to quantify it meaningfully. Case in point: Rob Landley, author of toybox, is a competent coder, but also a very damaged person. How does one express that in an integer?
asciilifeform observes that in not one instance did asciilifeform ever see a 'x programs competently, tho damaged person(tm)', dig in, and 'hm yes we could never do without x's $program'
asciilifeform: erry single fucking time it's some poetteringism.
asciilifeform: often enuff, as in this case, a 'libreboot'-style attempted hijacking of sumthing or other.
signpost: http://landley.net/toybox/about.html << sounds like mostly a gpl vs bsd license thing.
signpost: but this guy's "blog" drivel would make me hesitate to touch any of his work.
asciilifeform: lol! 'ohai lemme help crapple & microshit parasitize on opensores!' ?
signpost: yeah, android in this case, hue
asciilifeform: seems entirely typical of genre.
signpost: anyway, was actually hoping bonechewer would bother a response. I wasn't making a speech.
asciilifeform: 'The smartphone is replacing the PC' didjaknow.
signpost: and the cardboard flat the brick house.
asciilifeform: an' ground-up roaches -- coffee, etc. aha.
asciilifeform: what asciilifeform finds interesting is that in no case to date these folx leave any doubt re what they are
signpost: implementing posix userland with decent code doesn't require any greatness of character, just obedience to spec.
asciilifeform: or even vaguely provoke the q of 'well he's loathesome but his softs are a++, wat do'
signpost: entirely compatible with screeching about "can't sleep because youtube wont recognize the plight of the whatevers"
asciilifeform: in errycase to date iirc, the tree and fruit are equally poisonous.
signpost: mhm, no argument to contrary.
signpost wishes the empires that produced these subbie slaves would clean up after them.
signpost: they don't work without the apparatus that directed them.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-01#1077604 << asciilifeform historically dissatisfied with scalar ratings but they're still a hellafalot better than nuffin
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-01 17:12:41 signpost: given that, seems letting people assign numeric values within the positive and negative space is useful, to avoid communicating difference where one isn't perceived.
signpost: asciilifeform: yeah, was a friendly challenge to the gent to justify his "take". usually these reveal uninspected capitulation in the person's notion of "relationship".
bonechewer: Sorry for the lack of response, signpost! Phone rang for $DAYJOB before I managed to type /away
signpost: logs are async, just baiting you over here!
asciilifeform: signpost: the apparatus maintains a caste of parasites with chronic ennui, these spin in place agitproping, 'opensoresing', etc. on own steam, attempting to quench unquenchable thirst of 'feeling significant'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-17 19:35:30 asciilifeform: it's a terrifying egowound to the typical derpware author (esp. if addicted to 'feeling significant' -- 'how will i stay at the center of things if a proggy can be finished??!!' )
signpost: this notion of relationship is well worth arguing into form, imho.
signpost: "hasn't backstabbed me yet" doesn't meet the bar.
asciilifeform: signpost: at one time asciilifeform thought 'monkey who sits and rewrites bsd plagiarization of gpl proggy is gunning for crumbs from microshit table' but nao suspect it aint this, aint the '30 silvers' that motivate.
signpost: yeah, there's nobody in there. no soul to sell.
asciilifeform: there's nowhere near enuff crumbs dispensed from that table to explain.
signpost: NPC with a hole where the script goes in.
asciilifeform: well there's certainly a script. they all seem to run exactly same one.
bonechewer: In any case, I am glad to provoke discussion. RL (whom I don't know personally) may not be the best example, but I do know (e.g.) competent hardware designers who enthusiastically not only vote but proselytize pantsuit
signpost: bonechewer: this is the classical distinction between free and slave.
bonechewer: It causes me massive cognitive dissonance, but I can only speculate as to how they got this way
bonechewer: signpost: what distinction are you refering to
asciilifeform has yet to run into any such creature
signpost: bonechewer: they don't ask the question you do. it's not "what is true" in there, just "what is ordered".
signpost: or even baser, just "what doesn't hurt"
asciilifeform: this supposed compulsion, it dun exist either, asciilifeform not 1nce to date heard 'well we'd give you this contract but we looked at yer www and you haven't even once agitated for clitler, kthx bye'
asciilifeform: seen over9000 folx allege this to exist, but never 1nce met this loch ness monster.
signpost: asciilifeform: a person can be captive by the urge to be holy within religion, rather than fear of hell.
asciilifeform: e.g. mp was convinced that this 'universal' nao in all commercial reich, went to davy jones's locker still convinced
bonechewer: for contract work I believe it, but recruiters tell me that resumes for engineering manager jobs these days are expected to burn a pinch of incense in worship of Diversity, Inclusion, Equity
signpost: asciilifeform: I see most people as what was left over after millenia of culling the less obedient ones.
signpost: we did the same with dogs and livestock
signpost: bonechewer: this is most certainly the case.
signpost: asciilifeform: perhaps macroexpand. you're saying mp thought the cowards live in fear of compulsion to serve the reich?
signpost will meanwhile restate his view.
asciilifeform: signpost: was speaking of the notion that no one in reich does any longer anyffin resembling commercial softs work w/out 'fellating hr mammies' and heiling clitler etc.
asciilifeform tries to dig up illustrative thrd, but nodice, evidently was phrased differently there
signpost: ah, nah, even the ones that do, it's cynical.
signpost: "yeah whatever, in the name of the father, son, holy ghost, amen"
signpost: it's barely alive.
signpost: my view is that there's a type of human that actively seeks out "the rules", lives to enforce them upon self and others.
bonechewer: signpost: no doubt some but the hw designer I mentioned posts Diversity stuff even on his personal facebook where only his l1 can read it and volunteers at a grrl-power coding camp
signpost: this same creature can both "yes mommy" to posix and the castrated male thing.
bonechewer: i.e., true believer in globohomo. Perhaps goes hand-in-hand with overt hostility to conventional religion.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: i can think of >1 reason to 'volunteer' at 'grrl' xyz
signpost: :D
signpost: quite fun to teach women to code, done it plenty.
bonechewer: asciilifeform: that would be your reason or mine, but these are high school girls, he has a wife and is not looking to go to jail
asciilifeform: (recall e.g. dan mocsny's piece re how he attended evangelical church for many yrs after becoming an atheist, simply to pick up chix)
bonechewer: signpost: true, teaching my daughter to coad is A++ run
bonechewer: *fun
signpost: boys are in my experience quicker to turn sour and start bitching. they're usually weaker.
signpost: anyway, upstack, these rule-repeaters are stability mechanisms that utterly *cannot think* that whatever the ambient rule-system they fell out of their mothers into is wrong.
bonechewer: signpost: that is an appealing explanation except that wokeness is so new, was only nascent in late '90s when the folx I am thinking of were in university
signpost: perhaps at various points this strategy permitted social status a hair above the bottom, so it worked.
signpost: man castration cults are ancient
signpost: take your pick.
bonechewer: hmm, it may not be important but I don't grasp your conjecture. Are you saying even pre-woke USA was a man-castration cult?
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-18#1073873 << "removing the thing that gives you power will grant you a higher power"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-18 13:41:45 signpost: cults must cause adherents to internalize a contradiction; it permits arbitrary command.
asciilifeform contents that the subj folx are found in appreciable #s in some, evidently, organizations, and not others; and is worth thinking about why
bonechewer: how did globohomo achieve the status of ambient rule-system, though? When many of its adherents were kids, homosexuality was still considered undesirable
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-01#1077670 << traditional religion wasn't dishing out the kind of hardcore bdsm it used to, needed more potent pain.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-01 18:01:08 bonechewer: i.e., true believer in globohomo. Perhaps goes hand-in-hand with overt hostility to conventional religion.
bonechewer: and to be clear: the fellow I am thinking of is not a homosexual, merely a fellow traveler
signpost: what do you meany by "globohomo" here?
bonechewer: sorry, it is common shorthand in bonechewer's online circles for the belief system of the reich: subjugate orcistans and make them host Pride Parades
signpost: ah yeah, afghan women's chess club and etc
signpost: this marxist cultural revolution thing was probably being actively fed in the US by geopolitical enemies, for one.
signpost: but internal cultural weakness is enough.
bonechewer: Perhaps geopolitical enemies started feeding it once they noticed it, but it seems to be an organic development in USA
bonechewer: A Christian heresy that discarded Christianity
signpost: you don't see a lineage from modern leftism back into protestant christianity?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-04-22 14:00:13 asciilifeform: 'let'em fight an imaginary race war in forum comments, maybe won't notice their savings evaporating' etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-04-22 14:01:38 asciilifeform: this is a '50s-era decision, btw. originally made, in usa, to destroy the unions.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 19:23:44 asciilifeform: lizards in usa 'solved' the 'unions problem' by getting rid of labour, creating caste of lumpens on left side of bell curve and caste of paper shufflers on right side, with the sleight-of-hand moar than sufficing to ramp down expectations of life for all of'em
signpost: imho identity politics grew directly out of "own personal jesus"
asciilifeform: 'identity politic'(tm)(r) was an artfully constructed boojum to defuse labour movement. worked a++.
bonechewer: signpost: exactly that! In New England, the Puritan churches founded in the 1600s now have rainbow and BLM flags out front
signpost: yep, quite a pill against solidarity of any kind.
signpost: bonechewer: yeah, but this isn't something good that rotted. once you ask random dipshits what god said to them, you're doomed.
signpost: "uh, he said whatever makes me uncomfortable isn't a thing"
signpost: quite agree.
signpost bbl, errand
bonechewer: see ya, signpost
bonechewer should apologize for opening this whole depressing can of worms with musings on wot
bonechewer: Of greater interest (at least to me) is this Twitter thread with blow-by-blow account of getting an open source system-on-chip booting Linux in a Verilog simulator
bonechewer: It's an OpenPOWER clone on a 180nm process, so not going to revolutionise the world of computing, but still it would be nice for there to exist another Fritz-free CPU
asciilifeform: bonechewer: see prev. riscvism thrd plz.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-25 13:11:41 asciilifeform: bonechewer: what's the newsworthy part ? there's already 'over9000' riscv already posted, and some even fit in ice40. (the issue with all of these is that they either fit in ice40, xor have decent performance. typically for the latter relies on various proprietary ram controllers & other periphs not included in src)
asciilifeform: afaik 0 of'em is, or even threatens to be 1) workstation-class iron 2) in any meaningful sense 'open' -- all deeply chinese, and, as is typical, rely on undocumented on-chip crapola
asciilifeform: i.e. you get effectively similar level of 'openism' if you buy an rk. the main diff is that the rk is ~50 $ while similar calibre riscv is ~1000$+
asciilifeform vaguely suspects that the riscv thing is, for lack of a better term, a 'stopper' -- i.e. exists to occupy the market niche just enuff to prevent the appearance of the real thing.
asciilifeform: ( as in e.g. these )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-01-21 16:37:28 asciilifeform: as for encryption -- 99+% of what's 'out there' in the sense of 'readable by plebe armed w/ google' was written specifically to ensure that actual crypto aint there when you in fact do need it.
bonechewer: subj. item is not risc-v, but OpenPOWER, and is open in at least the sense that the Verilog source code is available to bake into your own FPGA
bonechewer: will be fabbed, like early proof-of-concept by TSMC
asciilifeform: massively gnarly arch, btw, still boggles mind that anyone salivates to it on fpga
bonechewer: Yeah, I learned MIPS first and still think best in it
asciilifeform fond of mips , w/ exception of the liquishit instrs w/ unaligned byte and 'halfword' access; fuck unaligned loads.
bonechewer shudders in sympathetic half-remembered horror
bonechewer: re: risc-v, libre-soc honcho Luke Leighton's rant when abandoning it for OpenPOWER is worthwhile: "the ISA is set up as a cartel"
asciilifeform: meanwhile all patents on mips expired yrs ago
asciilifeform: i.e. whole original premise behind the riscv nonsense evaporated, and w/ 0 comment from the perps