asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089766 << holy mother of fuck , crtdaydreams, didn't even bother to look at '8k' of ~what~ ? 8k LUTs in the ice8k, vs 8k ~transistors~ in z80, lol!
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-27 23:22:10 crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089762 << good links. will definitely read through. admittedly I largely forgot iCE40 was freeware, but I have a suspicion that to bake a lisp CPU you'd need more than 8k. The z80 as it stands has 8.5k~.
asciilifeform: e.g. i386 wouldn't. nor the bolix ivory, tho conceivably a compat. item sans the massive cache, could
crtdaydreams is slightly retarded
crtdaydreams: plz excuse my noob
crtdaydreams will read the docs and ~fully understand them~ before any further comment
asciilifeform recs to read the intro materials, get a feel for what weighs how much, etc
asciilifeform: get the 20$ demo board, experiment, if genuinely interested in subj.
asciilifeform: it dun take megabux.
crtdaydreams: ^^ ye. thought abt it last year but had school and job, so no time anyways
asciilifeform: dun take all that much time to do some helloworlds
crtdaydreams: er even w/ out knowledge of C?
asciilifeform: no c req'd
crtdaydreams: || asm?
asciilifeform: ~all of verilog would fit in a brochure
crtdaydreams: I started learning verilog for a little bit, at same time as I considered buying fpga
crtdaydreams: but completely forgot
asciilifeform: see the earlier link.
crtdaydreams: Ye, Very good to have something to follow along with.
crtdaydreams: iirc there was another course that did ~errything~ from "nand to tetris"
crtdaydreams: seen some pretty mixed ratings
crtdaydreams would like to step back and just get mp-wp & dulap going 1st
mangol: unrelated continuation, [https://www.linkedin.com/in/uncle-al-schwartz-317028b][Uncle Al Schwartz
mangol: ] has a LinkedIn
mangol: newlines dammit. should set up irc in emacs
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089773 << who isn't. some just hide it better than others
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 00:18:23 crtdaydreams: is slightly retarded
mangol: case in point, only now realized that "bolix" is a contraction of "symbolics"
mangol: x made me think it's something to do with unix, lol
verisimilitude: Don't feel bad; asciilifeform's language habits are atrocious.
mats: tether is now down to 33% of the stablecoin market, according to https://www.defipulse.com/usd
mangol: re: symbolics, i wonder how much their IP is worth, and why the rich lispers haven't got together, bought, and open sourced all of it
mangol: PG's family is nearly billionaires from ycombinator iirc. norvig is rich from google. even if smbx ip costs a million, they could easily do it
mangol: whaack: asciilifeform: re http://ztkfg.com/2020/01/holy-shit-lizard-hitlers-scheme-to-scare-people-away-from-non-https-sites-is-working/
mangol: is there a thorough explainer of the SSL/TLS saga somewhere?
mangol: for noobs. the basic problems are 1) centralized certificate authorities that are in states' pocket; 2) crypto probably backdoored ??
verisimilitude: It's also unnecessary.
verisimilitude: It's a constant moving goal, which is great for those who like to destroy.
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089799 << previously misinterpreted as "bollocks"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 01:28:37 mangol: case in point, only now realized that "bolix" is a contraction of "symbolics"
crtdaydreams: way funnier imo
mangol: that's the pronounciation i read as well. assumed it's intentional
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 01:21:28 mangol: unrelated continuation, [https://www.linkedin.com/in/uncle-al-schwartz-317028b][Uncle Al Schwartz
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089803 << amply discussed in the old logs.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 02:09:00 mangol: re: symbolics, i wonder how much their IP is worth, and why the rich lispers haven't got together, bought, and open sourced all of it
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-05-12 asciilifeform: phf: last thing dks said to me was that the rights to the whole shebang were bought at auction by prof j mallery of mit/nsa.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-12-18 asciilifeform: ( iirc mallery 'bought' the 'properties' for an amt that does not by many zeroes exceed what asciilifeform bought the 1 box for . entirely a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831755 scenario, near as i can tell. )
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-11-14 asciilifeform: Kalman was hired after that by Symbolics Technology, Inc., who had acquired the assets of Symbolics from the bankruptcy court, to work on further productizing the emulator for the Alpha. This was used by John Mallery at MIT to run his document distribution system for the White House during the Clinton presidency. When the owners of that venture decided that a financial company had no business owning a computer company, a private ind
asciilifeform: and see also. loox like not even the ancient support contract paid since '15 -- unless under the table
asciilifeform can think of over9000 motivations for the reich to keep the thing dead & deeply buried.
asciilifeform: successful test.
asciilifeform: 17 feb -- 28 mar.
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $47737.09
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=729395
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=729395
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.162s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.173s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.205s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.261s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.259s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=729395 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.338s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.609s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=729395
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.484s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=388215 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089827 << correction -- synced up to cement. atm still in 723k's (past cement)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 09:58:14 asciilifeform: 17 feb -- 28 mar.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089807 << twofold: pkiism per se is a backdoor; while the implementation itself is deliberately over9000 complex, and neverending source of 'heartbleed'-style 'bugs'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 02:51:43 mangol: for noobs. the basic problems are 1) centralized certificate authorities that are in states' pocket; 2) crypto probably backdoored ??
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089804 << what diff would it make if 1 nsa stooge were to 'buy it from' anuther ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 02:10:00 mangol: PG's family is nearly billionaires from ycombinator iirc. norvig is rich from google. even if smbx ip costs a million, they could easily do it
asciilifeform: the goods will stay buried.
PeterL: maybe they will have a sudden philanthropic urge, hand asciilifeform the source and a bag of gold and say "go fix it"?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089803 << for ~2decades nao, rumours were cultivated that 'it'll be opensourced', and afaik simply to put braked on serious reversing work.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 02:09:00 mangol: re: symbolics, i wonder how much their IP is worth, and why the rich lispers haven't got together, bought, and open sourced all of it
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-03-10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since '09 or so i was one of very few people publicly interested in reversing the bolix gear. and apparently ~all of the aficionados, saw me as 'dangerous fool' who 'might piss off dks'...
PeterL: since we are spending their money for them, why not have them pay to fix things the way we like?
asciilifeform: PeterL: per reich , is already 'fixed' satisfactorily.
asciilifeform: i.e. unhappened.
asciilifeform: PeterL: at this pt, no one even knows if the still seekrit sources (to e.g. bolix's 'ns' cmos cad) even ~still exist~)
asciilifeform: while the rest is right there in the warez, can run right nao.
asciilifeform: the src of the (buggy) Official emulator has been on shithub for some yrs.
asciilifeform: afaik no one even tried to censor.
asciilifeform: afaik the only remaining tasks for a hypothetical spy hero is src for the ivory cpu per se, and the 'ns' cad in which written.
asciilifeform: supposing these even preserved anywhere.
asciilifeform has 5 'ivory' cpu stashed, 4 of'em brand-new, for microscopy, for which to this day 0 time/budget
asciilifeform: afaik bought up all the spares dks was willing to part with.
asciilifeform: (either that, or he took'em off the market when discovered who was buying and why)
asciilifeform: for a while he was letting'em (cpu in orig. packaging) for ~500$ ea.
whaack: !w probe 188.8.131.52
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.664s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=388390
whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089805 << I don't have a location for a detailed list of all the problems of SSL. It does boil down too the central authority problem, HTTPS is we-pick-your-wot-ratings-for-you. Also note that setting up HTTPS means requests to your site get tagged (and likely stored) in Goolag's mega DB.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 06:51:01 mangol: whaack: asciilifeform: re http://ztkfg.com/2020/01/holy-shit-lizard-hitlers-scheme-to-scare-people-away-from-non-https-sites-is-working/
whaack: down to*
whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089744 << been spending copious amount of time in the water
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-27 21:49:47 asciilifeform: !q seen whaack
mangol: i.e. like net neutrality, rehearsal for more comprehensive social credit system
mangol: central bank digital currency / health passport maybe the next moves in that space
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089876 << attempt to make such list would resemble 'list all problems with eating glass'.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 11:04:41 whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089805 << I don't have a location for a detailed list of all the problems of SSL. It does boil down too the central authority problem, HTTPS is we-pick-your-wot-ratings-for-you. Also note that setting up HTTPS means requests to your site get tagged (and likely stored) in Goolag's mega DB.
bitbot: Logged on 2020-11-01 12:27:26 shinohai: https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/5bde2954c180034a27b079acaff46073dc75139b <<< I just noticed TrannyBSD did this.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 17:35:59 mangol: zlib - is nothing sacred?
mangol: "some language improvements"
mangol: it's nice how the SJWism goes hand in hand with vague corporate language. next up, plugging security holes = "some reliability improvements"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089854 << lulzy how many folx who oughta know better think that this kinda thing actually happens.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 10:09:23 PeterL: maybe they will have a sudden philanthropic urge, hand asciilifeform the source and a bag of gold and say "go fix it"?
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-04-13 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: some time, though of course not enough to support a whole project for a whole year. i'm wondering about great flowering riches
signpost: https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/170281?v=4 << these always look like they want to eat a gun.
signpost: creature from shinohai's link
asciilifeform: ( 'philanthropy' -- money laundering & meritwashing. )
asciilifeform: signpost: fella loox like sad hobo
asciilifeform: in further thread necromancy, d00d's donation box to this day not 'flowering' anymoar than anybody else's
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-04-13 zx2c4: to put differently, if 2000 BTC suddenly showed up in 1ASnTs4UjXKR8tHnLi9yG42n42hbFYV2um, I'd be quite happy and don't think i'd be worse off
asciilifeform remembers that zx2c4 is nominally tuned in. invited to comment.
signpost: https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-are-all-latest-news-and-developments-ukraine-war-march-28 << this is getting good.
signpost: "Russian lawmaker Abramov says G7's refusal to pay in Russian roubles for gas will definitely lead to a halt in supplies."
asciilifeform: signpost: ftr ukrs gettin' ru gas for ~20y w/out payin' ~anyffin
asciilifeform: even nao.
zx2c4: Yes, BTC address still the same on that page.
zx2c4: Ahhh back when I panhandled and mircea got angry
asciilifeform: zx2c4: iirc yer proggy is used by over9000 today. and still evidently no 'philanthropists' eh
signpost loves wireguard, using currently.
asciilifeform recently ran into it when a client took it up
zx2c4: asciilifeform: indeed the project is massive but no bitcoinbenefactor has swept in with the millions
zx2c4: i'm still doing it "full time" and just sort of living on whatever i can get from whomever - companies, non profit grants, etc
asciilifeform: aa, so they donate, but in saecular moneys rather than btc?
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089904 << looking forward to when europe refuses to pay, continues to slurp.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 13:33:01 asciilifeform: signpost: ftr ukrs gettin' ru gas for ~20y w/out payin' ~anyffin
zx2c4: asciilifeform: at the beginning much more than now. in the early days, vpn companies thought it was a good marketing thing to do. now that's mostly passed and things are a lot tougher. your loper-os.org blurb seems to have some truth in it in my experience
zx2c4: i'd say generally that it's not a terrific situation, but i do intend to keep freesoftwaring for as long as i feasibly can, and hopefully some luck will come my way at some point
zx2c4: for the last few months ive been fixing the linux kernel rng, and obviously nobody with money cares about that
asciilifeform: zx2c4: pretty typical; you can write whatever proggy, that saves whatever mega-dough for over9000 users, and see, if yer lucky, some pennies in hat
asciilifeform: zx2c4: fwiw long ago asciilifeform solved rng problem on pc inexpensively; 0 surprises for guessing how much money from it, etc
asciilifeform: *0 prizes
asciilifeform: iirc there was a fella writing kernel driver for it at one pt. vanished into the night.
zx2c4: in terms of _hardware_ now a days people who want that just use rdrand or a tpm or whatever and call it "good enough", even if you cant audit it and it might be backdoored etc
asciilifeform: well not 'now a days' but for decade+ nao
zx2c4: At the very least, linux 5.18 now hashes all rdrand values, which removes one kind of backdoor potential
asciilifeform: who wants to build auditable+unwhitened rng, can do so, all schematics, srcs, posted, in '16.
zx2c4: that's a cool project
asciilifeform: zx2c4: the most interesting part was the discovery that ~nobody gives rat's arse
signpost: backdoorism is more a feature than bug to most who would otherwise pay.
zx2c4: asciilifeform: Yea... I think most people generally figure their OS rng is "good enough" -- that interrupts and disk seek times and mouse movements and whatever else combine together to do something passable
asciilifeform: 1990s state of art, aha.
asciilifeform recalls msdos util that used jitter of cpu clock vs rtc's
zx2c4: asciilifeform: linus has "reinvented" the cycle counter jitter stuff on linux
zx2c4: the "linus jitter dance" in https://www.zx2c4.com/projects/linux-rng-5.17-5.18/
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-20 19:00:15 asciilifeform: it is also the case that rng as commercial product is a very questionable biz proposition. it takes quite a bit of 'adulthood' to even get to a place where you actually benefit from a 1000 $ rng. for instance, microshit victims dun really win anyffin from using whatever external rng.
signpost: huh, does this mean early entropy is degraded on old platforms with this patch?
signpost: "This only works when you have a high-frequency time stamp
signpost: counter available, but that's the case on all modern x86 CPU's, and on
signpost: most other modern CPU's too.
asciilifeform: 'worx great' 'nobody complains' just like nobody complained about the debianized rng until yrs after the fact..
zx2c4: Good old debianrng
asciilifeform: nor is any aspect of the hfts behaviour actually guaranteed (can do moar or less whatever it wants under hypervisors, for instance)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089915 << will slurp until turned off, why not
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 13:36:35 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089904 << looking forward to when europe refuses to pay, continues to slurp.
asciilifeform recalls episode from many yrs ago when switched isps, from 'cable' to fiber, and 2y later found that cable modem still connects, gets ip
signpost: heh, nice additional bandwidth.
asciilifeform: indeed, if had thought of powering it up
signpost recalls many years ago bonding a whole cul-de-sac's worth of wifi connections, didn't even reach 1/20th of current connection speed.
asciilifeform ran off exactly such a contraption when was a student
asciilifeform: was 100kb/s on a good day
signpost: dad: "what in the hell are all these antennas in your room" me:"experiment!!"
signpost: yeah, fun was just in the doing.
signpost: upstack, will assume that my oldenboxen have no business on 5.18 kernel
asciilifeform ignores new kernels unless new iron incompat. w/ old
asciilifeform: ... and next time will prolly simply backport the driv
verisimilitude: I'm accustomed to getting a connection measured in dozens of kibibytes per second.
verisimilitude: My ``fast'' connection gets close to one mebibyte per second, I believe.
verisimilitude: Leaving the machine on for a twenty hour download helps build character.
verisimilitude: Overnight, that is.
verisimilitude: Hello, zx2c4; I don't use Wireguard, but I do recall an entertaining presentation about it.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: dialup ?
verisimilitude: Sure, it's close.
signpost: wherein we find verisimilitude lives in a rural town in tibet, learned english by reading /pol/
PeterL: verisimilitude: I didn't want to be the one to ask, but I am curious: what sort of wacky position are you using that it hurts your wrists?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 20:22:18 verisimilitude: No, I stopped masturbating often because it was bad for my wrists.
verisimilitude: It's simply not good, PeterL.
signpost: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $48063.69
verisimilitude: I don't believe I've ever used a computer which met even very low expectations.
verisimilitude: Just running Emacs and a few other programs without crashing or freezing isn't met.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: how often yer emacs crashes / freezes ?
verisimilitude: Well, until I bought the Pinebook Pro, maybe a few times a year.
asciilifeform: maybe rubbish iron ?
verisimilitude: See, this shitty software doesn't deserve that doubt.
asciilifeform has that box, but is gathering dust for yrs nao, never got to any serious attempt to bake a dulap-gentoo for it
verisimilitude: With software failures like this, who needs hardware failures?
verisimilitude: It's the desktop environment which is the issue.
verisimilitude: I've never experienced such odd graphical failures before.
signpost wouldn't rule out bugs in the gpu driver
verisimilitude: Does it really matter?
verisimilitude: At least it doesn't have a fan, or that would've failed by now too.
signpost also bought pinebook pro, now collecting dust
asciilifeform: in past 20y seems were only 2 kinds of lappy -- the kind where fan, and sounds like shop vac, and the kind that overheats & melts down
asciilifeform: sometimes you get '2 for price of 1'
verisimilitude: If I couldn't get up and leave the machine, to do something else, I'd lose my mind.
asciilifeform: signpost: fwiw asciilifeform got nowhere in the process of trying to get hygienic xorg going on it
asciilifeform: ( would've encountered identical boojum w/ rk, but never attempted a non-headless rk )
signpost firmly in the fuck-it, will use a recent x1 carbon for portable machine, and assume it's as private as any public park bench.
asciilifeform: signpost: dunthink i've used that one ( presumably moar recent than x60 ? )
verisimilitude: I don't trust the Pinebook Pro anyway, but it would be nice to be able to trust it just a little.
signpost: yeah, it's their thinputer.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: was pushed as 'lappy w/ open schematics', 'blobless boot', etc. and asciilifeform bought under the notion that he could get rk-gentoo goin' on it
asciilifeform: to add insult to injury, ended up with a unit w/ oddball heathen keyboard layout , too ( regular ones were sold out )
verisimilitude: I'm waiting for OpenBSD to have a port, so I can get something.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: what's missing ?
asciilifeform guesses -- vga
verisimilitude: It locks up randomly is what's the issue.
verisimilitude: It's completely unreliable.
verisimilitude: I don't even know how to have it fsck at boot.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: dies silently (i.e. nuffin in logs re e.g. thermals, etc) ?
verisimilitude: No, I have to hold down the power button.
verisimilitude: It can't go two weeks without a reboot, whereas the old Thinkpad can go years.
asciilifeform encountered this kinda thing many times, but typically on the ancient opterons he uses, where capacitor plague, rather than new laps
signpost: two categories of hardware in my mind. one, old enough that culture hadn't rotted to the point of backdooring being an industry standard, or two, recent item that had the wave of money poured over it to smooth the most egregious sharp edges.
asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform hasn't much experience with the latter
asciilifeform: aside from , i suppose, a fat 'threadripper' a client sent in. running 24/7 for >yr nao
asciilifeform: ( was sent in... 1 part at a time. the little tension wrench the cpu came with was lulzy )
asciilifeform: notbad box, if a bit loud
signpost has a 16 core ryzen at home, baby version of ^
signpost: nice for make -j16
verisimilitude: Only batch systems work at all, I suppose.
signpost: considered "public ground" also
asciilifeform: -j48 and then 'shop vac' lol
asciilifeform: but runs.
asciilifeform: prolly 1st box asciilifeform ever had in torture room where emacs not 'felt slow' under syntax highlighting of weighty turds
signpost: to think megacorps spend extra money on white noise machines for the office, rather than moar brrrrrrrr.
verisimilitude: I wonder how writing a sane network operating system would go.
signpost: what's sanity look like here?
verisimilitude: That is, program for a simple router, and have a system that only has a network interface.
signpost: verisimilitude: this'd be a mighty fine item, if it could reliably act as a point-to-point connection with peers.
signpost: semi-permeable membrane
verisimilitude: Basically, have a system that supports multiple protocols, using little code, have it designed so that simpler such servers could be ``scaled'' automatically, and let control happen over things like FTP or a special signed-command protocol.
verisimilitude: I was thinking about the design for a little UDP server I'm going to write soon, and how it could be ``scaled'' indefinitely, and what a general system would look like.
verisimilitude: Have a ``permanent storage'' internal system, and let protocols such as HTTP, Gopher, and FTP be written so: Is my $formatted store available? If so, send it. If not, filter ``permanent storage'' data so, cache it, and then send it.
signpost: imho, why not have the thing just speak "pest", and build all additional functionality a layer above.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: asciilifeform proposed similar item many yrs ago, 'coupla kB of asm that'd throw signed packets from 1 nic into other'
asciilifeform: naodays obv. Right Thing would be w/ pest.
verisimilitude: So, have an article available as lines. Gopher would want each line followed by newline, and a terminator, if the data should be treated as text. This would be stored in RAM. Similarly, HTTP could take the same data, template it, and store it to serve later requests. Only one copy, the master copy, is stored permanently.
verisimilitude: I wonder how feasible this would be. I could target an MMC at the architecture and easily write kibibytes of machine code, if it were truly so simple.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-09-17 asciilifeform: i hunted for years and found what imho is the simplest GB/s-capable nic, the rt8168. here is the linux driver, https://github.com/mtorromeo/r8168/tree/master/src
asciilifeform at one pt in (long-dead) commercial shop burned 6mo+ on attempt to get that nic going 'ab initio', ran aground.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-09-17 asciilifeform: phf: the thing needs real-time interrupt handling just to init.
verisimilitude: As figured.
asciilifeform: apu1 box.
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1089990 << newer chips (not sure how new) have "thermal throttling" where slow down the chip if temps get too high or fan too loud per some formula
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 19:59:10 asciilifeform: in past 20y seems were only 2 kinds of lappy -- the kind where fan, and sounds like shop vac, and the kind that overheats & melts down
asciilifeform: billymg: seems like his wedged properly, rather than simply slow
signpost figures there oughta be a few folks here that can afford to go on a small hardware adventure sometime around 2024, assuming north america isn't covered in radioactive cobalt by then.
asciilifeform: signpost: what do you have in mind ?
verisimilitude: I'm interested.
verisimilitude: I could handle the firmware, or microcode.
signpost: the network-edge pest membrane is interesting to me.
asciilifeform: it's the troo way to do line-rate pestron.
asciilifeform: ideally would fpga instead of apu1's cpu, do the sha384 thing 'in iron', easily gb/s eating/shitting
asciilifeform: ditto serpentism
signpost: yep, mighty fine thing to exist.
asciilifeform: interestingly to this day there aint one published anywhere afaik
asciilifeform: (for any fpga)
asciilifeform orig. wanted to bake an iron disk crypter w/ it
signpost: nomoar financial suicide missions, but if our dark lord BTC permits, imho must.
verisimilitude: My proposal was more general than just Pest, but could include it.
verisimilitude: Financial suicide missions require bodies to suicide.
asciilifeform: errybody's on suicide mission, just some slower, others faster, lol
signpost just means slower, such that item gets to see the day.
verisimilitude: I mean a financial suicide mission requires a financial body to suicide, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: signpost: the other irresistible feature of hypothetical iron pestron, naturally -- radio
signpost: the uwb item is also on my mind, but I didn't want to stack too many skypies at once
asciilifeform: well if you've fpga, it's 'phree', at least in so far as the iron goes
asciilifeform: and pest's 'if you can decrypt it, it's for you' is pretty good fit for radioism.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1090037 So the best bet, currently, is to massively trim down a Linux kernel and just run, say, one process?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: loses 100% of the point
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-23 15:18:42 asciilifeform: a single cpu would need to process each packet inside ~4.41uS.
asciilifeform: ~may~ be doable in tight asm on apu1 (w/out fpgaism) running absolutely nuffin else, w/ entire 'kernel' fitting in l0 cache.
asciilifeform: for 100m/s, multiply by 10.
asciilifeform: if certain that can use both cores -- by 2.
asciilifeform: obv. also will depend on # of peers, also.
asciilifeform: for reasoning re subj, must assume that all 'ddos' packets are replays of recent, valid ones from peers.
asciilifeform: (i.e. worst case.)
asciilifeform: i.e. within that interval must be able to decrypt ~and~ dedupe.
asciilifeform: theoretically if yer pestron can't keep up with line rate, still usable (but will be subjectively slower), situation equivalent to random loss
asciilifeform: and naturally you'll need a tight impl. of whole protocol, or not much point to the exercise.
signpost: if I may ask a few stupid questions, is it a reasonable model to imagine that packet comes in, transits friend/foe process, and is written in decrypted form to some memory space addressable by another system?
asciilifeform: signpost: friend/foe requires most of the protocol, neh
asciilifeform: ( or how to distinguish 'friend' from 'enemy replay of friend' )
signpost: yeah, not saying this process is trivial, just wondering at what the other side of the membrane looks like.
asciilifeform: the other side, would expect, talks to console.
asciilifeform not sees much pt in such box if doesn't implement entire pest
asciilifeform: if it dun dedupe, then trivial to overwhelm whatever's downstream
signpost: yup, I'm not questioning that.
verisimilitude: The other side should be an append-only record log.
signpost: right, I'm questioning into at what point the newly baked hardware item hands off to another system, and in what form.
signpost: currently there's an implementation that speaks IRC on the other side. if the hardware item does the same, brings in having to implement tcp, which I assume would be hefty.
verisimilitude: Well, a public log could use a simple protocol.
asciilifeform: signpost: most obv. shape would imho be where 1 jack 'to wild' and other to lan, and on the latter irc console listener
verisimilitude: Otherwise, something specialized be needed.
verisimilitude: A network operating system would do well to have a trusted serial port, say, for easy physical access.
asciilifeform: signpost: not necessarily hefty, as it dun get exposed to planet and dun need to support >1 connection at time
asciilifeform: easily serialport aha
asciilifeform: no tcp then needed at all
asciilifeform: ( e.g. apu1 has 1 soldered on already )
asciilifeform talked to his apu1 experiments largely via serialport
signpost: serial is probably the easiest v1 rear end.
asciilifeform: iirc posted example of 'os' for apu1 which talks over the included uart
asciilifeform can't currently turn up in log, if anyone wants, will look later
signpost: can even see use for systems which only serial one way, in.
asciilifeform: well for pestron need 2way
asciilifeform: (at the very least you gotta enwot/enkey it)
asciilifeform: even if it'll only 'listen' rather than speak afterwards
verisimilitude: Have it treat one peer specially, as the user himself.
signpost wallettron sent a one-way serial message into a box which shat signed txn to a printer, which I then inspected on a second isolated machine before scanning to send on the net-connected one.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: we're talking about a 'red/black' separator in iron, where 0 secrets travel in/outta 1 of the jacks, tho
asciilifeform: signpost: right, recall
signpost: wasn't perfect, still had a fat-assed linux behind the serial connection, but model indicates the direction I intended to drag it.
asciilifeform: would defo make sense to have wot config go 100% via local serial (if not all of console)
asciilifeform: whole console could easily tho
signpost: can even split these in interesting ways, such that box that must hear is not the same as can issue commands, yeah.
asciilifeform: well yes assumed that's ~whole point of an iron pestron
signpost just indicating he's tracking
asciilifeform: 'world' jack physically separate from 'red' jack
asciilifeform must bbl
signpost: ah, to clarify. I was talking about having a box *behind* the pest membrane which can only hear, not send. not talking about the world-side.
signpost: in the wallet case, would still want to be able to issue commands to pest, but prefer the assurance that the wallet service cannot say a damned thing to outside world.
signpost bbl also
asciilifeform: signpost: seems like in that case you can config the pestron and then connect only 1 pin of the serial port, as desired (tx or rx)
asciilifeform: ^ in the fg example -- only tx (of fg) connected to only rx (of pc)
asciilifeform: for most applications, you want ~some~ kinda 'yes, nuke armed, issue 'BANG' to pop' confirm. tho
verisimilitude: It would be annoying to get a prompt every time I wanted to launch a nuke.
verisimilitude: I'd expect asciilifeform to support an interface intended for experienced professionals.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not quite literally 'prompt'. simply, in actual practice people typically want to know that the nuke is connected, moar often than want to finally pop it
asciilifeform: ( actual nukes come w/... debuggers. nfi what the american one loox like, but in old log somewhere there's photo of the ru item, circa '70s, big fat 'icecream cart' looking thing w/ various connectors & gauges )
verisimilitude: I'm just joking.
asciilifeform: ( what to 'debug' ? not much, thing is electrically no moar complicated than a trolleybus. e.g. do the detonator squibs have the expected resistance; is the neutron background at various pts what's expected; temperature, humidity; moar or less it )
verisimilitude: I can no longer even look upon the word ``debugger'' fondly, ever since read ``Softword''.
verisimilitude: I prefer a term I started using for a different purpose, ``revealer''.
asciilifeform: iirc was called simply 'test stand'
asciilifeform: re: 1way serial w/out confirmations -- asciilifeform baked e.g. this item in 'tx only' style. theoretically if the box dun answer a button push, can push.. again. thing's been plugged in for 1y+ nao, not once had to push twice lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-09 11:43:58 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: arduinism is used for quick&dirty things, like this kvm remote.
verisimilitude: I'd've called it ``last stand'', as in ``last stand before launch'', along with the other obvious meaning.
asciilifeform: ( and yes kvm box does say 'yea i switched to hole #n' but what need is there for it. )
asciilifeform: ( all the remote does is shit 'SWn' for n 1..4, depending on which button, outta serial cable at 9600 baud. 5th button alts b/w last 2. )
verisimilitude: I've had decent success using Emacs' dabbrev-expand lately.
verisimilitude: I've bound it to C-o.
verisimilitude: I can get a decent history by simply opening a file containing much of my writing.
vex: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-28#1090048 is this with a view to making money, or just burning coin?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-28 16:19:58 signpost: figures there oughta be a few folks here that can afford to go on a small hardware adventure sometime around 2024, assuming north america isn't covered in radioactive cobalt by then.
vex: nosuch, to it's credit, managed to avoid doing either in any appreciable sense.
vex: hey cdd
crtdaydreams: how ya goin' vex?
vex: not too bad, et ou?
crtdaydreams must go