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| Results 251 ... 500 found in asciilifeform for 'rsa' |

asciilifeform: punkman: this is a good point actually, i haven't specified proper handling of chains in hearsay case
punkman: so must track selfchain for off-wot hearsay guests
asciilifeform: in current draft, hearsay dupes are mandatorily counted and the count is displayed.
punkman: yes got confused looking at my code, although if we stop at 4.2.1 "7. The deduplication queue..." we don't get to the part where we count hearsay copies
punkman: PeterL: yes maxbounces=1 stops my Station from rebroadcasting anything that is not immediate msg. Must also not allow hearsay messages with bounces=0 of course.
PeterL: and 2) the messages will all appear as hearsay of the form $any_user($bad_peer):message , which will make it pretty obvious who is misbehaving
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-01-20 20:03:12 asciilifeform: mike_c: the 'holy grail' still would be an iron which can 4096bit rsa 'at line rate' (1G/s) , but this is as i understand impossible w/out baking silicon.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-20#1058849 << there's 'over 9000' of these atrocities. btw the target audience (aside from other academitards) is actually payware broadcasters ('sirius' et al) , the nominal adversary is a decerebrated konsoomer, not nsa
asciilifeform: the 'biba' thing is particularly egregious wtf -- not only is nearly as expensive as 4096bit rsa to sign, but leaks key bits like a sieve and requires constant resupply (somehow!) of the ~10kByte~ (!) pubkey
asciilifeform: apeloyee: btw i considered to have a default rate limit for simple hearsay messages.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: imho the sandwich/onion approach isn't helpful, because does not somehow solve the problem of 'not having rsa' in the general case -- you cannot communicate authenticably with your l3, only with l1/l2
asciilifeform: ( meanwhile, since perhaps it aint obvious, asciilifeform will explicitly remind readers : pest is arguably an atrocity, in that the Final Solution to the problem it intends to solve, is constant-time-rsa-at-line-rate. and nothing else. but this'd cost 1e9$+ to produce the required iron, and then somehow to get it to erryone who wants to play! so asciilifeform posed the question -- what subset of the desired functional
asciilifeform: apeloyee: it isn't that i can't picture a situation where a simple proxy (eats packets from $ip1, forwards to $ip2, and vice-versa) is useful; but i don't see why to make it part of pest, complicating the protocol and creating multiple types of peering
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-12 13:28:57 asciilifeform: punkman: the whole protocol is one big 'weird contortion' around the fact that we can't do rsa at line rate but 'want to play anyway because fuckerryone'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-16 06:23:40 punkman: flow of messages that can be comfortably read as chat, is much lower than packet rate, I assume RSA (or maybe hash-based signature scheme) can keep up with that
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i get the intent (same as punkman's rsa idea more or less) but again the fits-in-head constant-time code does not exist.
asciilifeform: similar problem to rsa.
apeloyee: where's RSAcoin?
apeloyee: Transmitting an RSA signature in addition to MAC, as discussed a few days before? We have established that to big traffic goes through relays, so the assumption that you can RSA-verify everying your peers transmitted to you is quite reasonable
asciilifeform: ( ^ proposed 0xFD algo for in-wot hearsay marking )
asciilifeform: if he's your peer, you have a direct connection definitionally. and vice-versa.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-16 06:23:40 punkman: flow of messages that can be comfortably read as chat, is much lower than packet rate, I assume RSA (or maybe hash-based signature scheme) can keep up with that
asciilifeform: let's have the complexity and slowness of rsa, PLUS the all-to-all symmetric key exchange chore ???
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-16 06:09:10 punkman: asciilifeform: so I get why packet fragmentation strictly unwanted, and we can't do RSA at line rate. But what if we put, say 1kb, signature *in* message.text, now we have message.text fragmentation, which doesn't create the hole that fragged packets do..
punkman: flow of messages that can be comfortably read as chat, is much lower than packet rate, I assume RSA (or maybe hash-based signature scheme) can keep up with that
punkman: asciilifeform: so I get why packet fragmentation strictly unwanted, and we can't do RSA at line rate. But what if we put, say 1kb, signature *in* message.text, now we have message.text fragmentation, which doesn't create the hole that fragged packets do..
asciilifeform: bomolochus: very much a work in progress; rekey section not written yet; the hearsay mechanism from yest. -- ditto
asciilifeform: anyways i utterly , thoroughly fail to grasp the point of this horror show, when one can simply print the # of peers who duped-with-bounces==1 a given hearsay. as detailed yest.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-13 14:36:02 punkman: if we forget about packet size limitation, I suppose message could contain N encrypted copies, one for each peer, and hearsay broadcast now has meaningful sig for recipient, even if not received directly
asciilifeform: 4) if this number is 3 or less, the message is displayed in the format e.g. ' asciilifeform(cgra,signpost,punkman): .... ' where the handles in the parens are the peers who sent in the bounces==1 hearsay copies of the msg
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-13 16:38:33 asciilifeform: in fact already specified this in 4.1.2.2.2. In-WOT Hearsay. simply, now also count the # of peers from whom got bounce<=1 dupes of a given msg.
asciilifeform: 2) ~every~ hearsay message (rather than strictly in-wot hearsay) is embargoed for a configurable interval.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-13 16:28:23 asciilifeform: per this lemma, you now have a useful number associated with any hearsay message : the # of peers from whom a dupe of said message , having bounce <= 1, was NOT received.
asciilifeform: 1moar refinement to the scheme -- only count as bogowitnesses (peers who did NOT bring a dupe of the hearsay msg) such peers as, within last 15m, have sent in ~anything~ (let's define'em as 'online'.)
asciilifeform: could even reject in-wot hearsay with bogosity over $threshold entirely.
asciilifeform: in fact already specified this in 4.1.2.2.2. In-WOT Hearsay. simply, now also count the # of peers from whom got bounce<=1 dupes of a given msg.
asciilifeform: per this lemma, you now have a useful number associated with any hearsay message : the # of peers from whom a dupe of said message , having bounce <= 1, was NOT received.
asciilifeform: a hearsay message is received; and there may be a certain number of duplicates of it received, in a defined time window (refer as Td.) normally we simply throw'em away and forget about'em. but suppose they get ~counted~
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-13 15:51:11 asciilifeform: it is exceedingly unlikely that e.g. asciilifeform will have to carry out a broadcast by hearsaying through ONE thin path into the net.
cgra: asciilifeform: "all my buddies say asciilifeform said so" vs "cgra said nebuchadnezzar said asciilifeform said otherwise", kinda fits the 'hearsay' term
asciilifeform: it is exceedingly unlikely that e.g. asciilifeform will have to carry out a broadcast by hearsaying through ONE thin path into the net.
asciilifeform: i.e. without authenticable (in any sense) hearsay, we have a star topology again. where the only packets that can have any meaning are such that are sent between direct peers.
punkman: SG tells me that one from group signed the hearsay, but I already know this, peer signed and peer is from group
asciilifeform: ... K gets an additional 256bit component, G; and msgs get an additional 256b field, SG. G is shared with all peers; SG is HMAC signature using G. all of your peers can now authenticate (or impersonate) your hearsay.
punkman: "unbroken chain of 'i'm the one who wrote X' going all the way back to the 1st message" << is this a solution? I send message on Friday, then go fishing for weekend. anyone else can start growing this "unbroken chain" with hearsay messages
punkman: it seems to me that any solution that is not "find way to live with hearsay", will amount to pubkeycryptosystem
punkman: if we forget about packet size limitation, I suppose message could contain N encrypted copies, one for each peer, and hearsay broadcast now has meaningful sig for recipient, even if not received directly
asciilifeform: via hearsay.
punkman: but we've already established "if peer sends shit hearsay messages, unpeer/gag/whatever"
punkman: we can only verify msg from direct peer, there is no magic way to verify hearsay for free
asciilifeform: ( a spec-compliant noad will not permit two+ direct peers having colliding canonical (i.e. recorded in WOT) handles. but is powerless to prevent the use of whatever handles, incl. colliding, in hearsay msgs )
asciilifeform: in this case we need rsa. but we can't use rsa.
asciilifeform: if anyone can think of a 'have the cake and eat it' solution (aside from the unavailable, at line rate, constant-time rsa) i'm all ears.
asciilifeform: punkman: without reasonably-stable connection, you will not reliably track unbroken selfchains. and so will have exactly 0 ability to distinguish genuine from fraudulent hearsay msgs.
asciilifeform: (this in re: hearsay -- messages directly received from a peer, with his handle in'em, are prima facie authentic)
asciilifeform: the case where selfchain is important, is the 'hearsay' case.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-11 11:52:56 asciilifeform: and, relatedly: if we have ACKs, then possibly oughta reject in-wot hearsay pertaining to a 'live' peer, categorically ? (how then define 'live' ? when to accept in-wot hearsay again ?)
asciilifeform: thing needs a rejection mechanism for it, and not merely the simplistic one in 0xFE.
asciilifeform: upstack -- forgot to mention -- there's the problem of in-wot-hearsay. 99.999% of it will be completely useless 100% of the time ;
asciilifeform: punkman: the whole protocol is one big 'weird contortion' around the fact that we can't do rsa at line rate but 'want to play anyway because fuckerryone'
signpost: with a direct peer, it seems I should be able, just like in a phone conversation that temporarily loses connection, "hey buddy, I lost ya for a moment. what did you say?"
signpost: not distinguishable from them choosing to address different parts of the conversation, and it's unclear if a distinction is needed.
signpost: were the netchain used in UI you'd notice that suddenly folks that were agreeing on netchain suddenly forking off into chunks of the conversation
asciilifeform: i.e. unpeering w/out gagging will still have you picking up same thing as hearsay if even one peer still peers with $victim
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-12#1057666 << great question -- (UN)PAUSE is for a peer; (UN)GAG is for any message in general incl. hearsay. currently they're uncoupled, but possibly some kinda coupling is justified
asciilifeform: signpost: difficult to include opposable-anything directly in the protocol w/out bringing in rsa
punkman: happy anniversary, 20 years since 9/11. Here's Alex Jones on 9/12
asciilifeform: and, relatedly: if we have ACKs, then possibly oughta reject in-wot hearsay pertaining to a 'live' peer, categorically ? (how then define 'live' ? when to accept in-wot hearsay again ?)
asciilifeform: otherwise no way for'em to connect except via hearsay
asciilifeform: we had the thread (re earlier conceptions w/ rsaism ) , i simply dun have the link handy.
thimbronion: signpost: the way I see it, spooks are a major influence on platforms because there's no WoT - anyone can participate in the conversation. With a WoT, you have to know someone to even join the conversation. This forces spooks to put more effort into their influence ops.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I think this is implicit in your write up, but it might be helpful to include for the "thick": The fact that you have to be in the WoT to use it, which is a major attack on spooks attempting to "influence" the conversation.
asciilifeform: cgra: after this, examples of usage (generation of rsa keys; cramer-shoup; various practical examples)
asciilifeform: in any other case they will show up as a 'hearsay'.
asciilifeform: signpost: the 'final' solution asciilifeform is partial to, is (unsurprisingly) a universal vtree + minimal bootstrap compiler. from this, press whatever one needs on given time/place.
asciilifeform: noades oughta be rsapeered.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-01 16:24:16 asciilifeform: signpost: think about it tho. what's the use of ada fixedtime rsa planted in the middle of 100GB of js liquishit. rather like inverse of proverbial 'submarine screen door'.
asciilifeform: signpost: think about it tho. what's the use of ada fixedtime rsa planted in the middle of 100GB of js liquishit. rather like inverse of proverbial 'submarine screen door'.
asciilifeform: ^ notbad for ersatz.
asciilifeform: signpost: hey i'm sure somebody wants. y'know, just like prolly some folx do want a provably-correct fixed-time rsa. simply, people want for phree (or damn near) naturally.
asciilifeform: (plus reasonably well-gardened lan, so x can only see y and vice-versa if they have biznis doing so)
asciilifeform: punkman: the Official presumption that savings dun exist (and so you couldn't possibly have lived on'em) is perhaps recent but moar or less universal and not even baseless
asciilifeform: (not even a hypothetical 'pill for rsa' kept at ft meade underneath pillow of lizard hitler's throne, perhaps)
adlai: please state your purpose, question, and expected timeframe for the conversation) /away
adlai hopes that this conversation does not count as negotiation, nor "concerning the details of a payment"
asciilifeform: whaack: tried on my end, got 'gpg: Signature made Tue 17 Aug 2021 02:12:09 PM EDT using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-16 18:34:50 billymg: demonstrates that an indigenous people can defend themselves against a much more technically advanced and well funded adversary
billymg: demonstrates that an indigenous people can defend themselves against a much more technically advanced and well funded adversary
verisimilitude: RSA stops working if factoring primes becomes easy.
adlai: fwiw, the official jewish approach is funeral ~within~ 24h, wake lasting max six days, revisit grave one month after burial, and observances at yearly anniversaries hence.
asciilifeform: mats: i'm not aware of a universally-shared portrait of 'bitcoinization'
asciilifeform: pretense to the contrary is politically expedient, yes, and nearly universal in the Official lugenpress and 'security' racket. changes nothing.
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1051089 << a tough place to be. sometimes I end up in this "current science is shit" conversation, especially after a few drinks. I don't think I've convinced anyoned, but I can see some people getting scared if I manage a few good points
adlai: asciilifeform: probably, once I actually have such a conversation with a surgeon!
adlai: good word, vex ; the idiomatic preimage from the conversation, whence I took that idea, does not equal "zealotously sober"
adlai spent several years of his life practicing almost rabid smoking-atheism, so had quite a few of these conversations with active smokers
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-08 15:50:45 adlai: is not having this conversation now, although thank you for the invitation
adlai: followed by dead silence, and "what's a straightedge?" from the guy who never talked to anyone unless there were both drugs and money in the conversation
adlai is not having this conversation now, although thank you for the invitation
asciilifeform: 'Nor do the Federal Rules of Evidence apply to extradition proceedings.... Hearsay evidence is admissible at an extradition hearing, and “[a]certification of extradition may be and usually is based entirely on the authenticated documentary evidence and information provided by the requesting government.”... unsworn statements may be sufficient to justify extradition)... Nothing more is
asciilifeform: depending on what the victim is doing with his broken rng, different approach (e.g. if rsa or ecdsa -- solve lattice)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-30 08:25:03 adlai: as for the old entropy question: working almost entirely off my readings of the past conversations on this, I'm surprised ~any~ peripheral built as an input device, in this case optical, is considered a good entropy source
adlai: as for the old entropy question: working almost entirely off my readings of the past conversations on this, I'm surprised ~any~ peripheral built as an input device, in this case optical, is considered a good entropy source
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: i aint trolling. rng is a safety-critical component if you're a rsa or bitcoin user. if you had to jump with a parachute tomorrow, would you ask randos on a forum how to sew one ?
asciilifeform: to disarm it needs, near as i was able to tell (with substantial effort to look for bugs) -- their rsa privkey.
bonechewer: I suppose that a booby-trapped QR box specifically designed with perfect knowledge of the OTPtron's innards could snoop emanations from the data bus and broadcast them over a secret superminiature wifi chip, but for that to be a realistic threat the adversary would need to steal the QR box from mailbox, replace it with boobytrapped version. This is not the threat model the device under
bonechewer: Yep. So? I have already stipulated that if the adversary owns a nearby device, he might be able to snoop plaintext from the RF emantations of the screen.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-08-02 asciilifeform: one of these bargains is that you cannot build a career as a university academic with 'use rsa, kthx, bye'
asciilifeform: ( recall, while on subj, how 'pro cryptographers' are all about use ANYTHING BUT RSA!1111 , for similar reason )
bonechewer: I agree with the latter, but if the adversary has no way to get his code onto the OTPtron, then he can't run timing attacks, differential power analysis, and the like
bonechewer: mats: fun piece but a QR code hacked by the adversary will fail asciilifeform's hash-against-the-pad test and will be rejected by OTPtron
bonechewer: sure, I would call that a TEMPEST attack: OTPtron screen displays message, phone listens to RF emanations and transmits to adversary. No?
bonechewer: asciilifeform: do I understand correctly that the threat model is: the adversary pwns your phone and uses it to mount a TEMPEST attack against the nearby OTPtron?
bonechewer: punkman: but if the adversary owns your phone, can he not then snoop your keystrokes right from your wireless mini-keyboard? And once you start sending OTPgrams around, the adversary is going to very much want to pwn your phone
bonechewer: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046718 << upstack: I may be a tedious monomaniac, but I do think that easy availability of a build-it-yourself, un-own-able portable OTPtron would have civilisational impact, if only by crowding out USG's ability to sell ersatz versions
bonechewer: ifeform/2021-07-07#1043951][ersatz versions]
asciilifeform: (or, vice-versa)
raw_avocado: You are very right, but for this conversation the volume of code outputed is relevant, not by whom was made
bingoboingo: thimbronion: Maybe? Had a conversation of this sort with a stranger in Indiana over cam last night. He resented his family for the drugs, I resented mine for the beatings.
mats: remember the conversations about snipers / ieds goal to maim than kill
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-07-26 phf: relatedly to the other conversation, though i grew up on the same yarns as asciilifeform, i start to think that usenet was the original reddit, just the guys were smarter, perhaps even grownups. i posted on reddit at some point, and i want to believe that my comments were carefully constructed and detailed, but there were many reasons that we
signpost groans at stunning-rsa-hack, "bet it's that RSA", and yep
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's current proposed answer to this is to buffer all hearsays for e.g. 1sec.
asciilifeform: what i was speaking of upstack, is the oddball case where N 'hearsay' copies of item come ~before~ the original.
asciilifeform: except for irc front end, if 'hearsay' then handle in parens.
asciilifeform: had come -- the message M in such a packet is termed "hearsay".'
signpost: the hearsay item differs how?
asciilifeform: signpost: the tricky bit in protocol so far (on asciilifeform's chalkboard) is how to prevent station from relaying to irc console a packet as 'hearsay' that you 0,1sec later get the ~original~ version of, from vagaries of the net
signpost: nature also gives no fixed universal ordering of messages
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-09 16:26:41 mats: ive had this fscking conversation like five times, 'why dont you buy house? mortgage is better than rent! cant sit on btc forever...' etc
mats: ive had this fscking conversation like five times, 'why dont you buy house? mortgage is better than rent! cant sit on btc forever...' etc
asciilifeform still surprised that no one (afaik, again) built 'cable box' miners. wouldn't even have to be surreptitious -- simply have it eat rsa-signed broadcasts, and shit out result in such a way that only vendor can make use (will omit the maffs, but not difficult) -- buyer of box feeds it mains current at own expense, and payment
bonechewer: Maybe I am overconfident, but I fail to see how the adversary could compromise a device using a Xilinx FPGA as long as its designer did not use the Xilinx proprietary tools nor on-chip blobs
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: oh before i forget. is it possible to lease fg as part of hosting service? didn't see it on: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3557; i know i could co locate mine but given previous conversations want to use this one locally.
bonechewer: good night, asciilifeform! thank you for the enjoyable conversation.
bonechewer: but it was spoofed by the adversary, and you overwrote it in sram, now you lost that part of key and can't read legit traffic using it
bonechewer: So for wide adoption of BTC payments by those without the time to become specialists, it would be desirable to have a device that makes it easier for people to create and send bitcoin transactions without sacrificing the high level of security needed in the face of a nation-state adversary. Whether this "coldcartwallet" qualifies as such, of course I don't know.
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-05#1042907 << Retroshare has been around for 15 years, that's kinda respectable compared to all the other derps. And only used RSA+SSL, which made sense in 2006.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-05 10:42:44 asciilifeform: punkman: at the same time, observe that we are able to have a conversation without even any kind of authenticity guarantees at all currently.
asciilifeform: punkman: at the same time, observe that we are able to have a conversation without even any kind of authenticity guarantees at all currently.
asciilifeform: no rly i have nfi what. i don't think there is a universal answer to this q.
verisimilitude: Oh, RSA was once a fairy tale as well, don't give me that.
asciilifeform: as for 'bandage' -- if linespeed constant-time rsa were available, whole thing would be trivial.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-04 16:10:52 asciilifeform: it is possible to construct a scenario where this is not the case on account of packets arriving out-of-order. but there is no clean universal pill against this.
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-04#1042524 << the universal pill is: master does the ordering for all peers. which is of course not p2p. As an example, paxos,raft and other such "consensoos" algos, then add "if master dies, elect new master" on top of that.
asciilifeform: it is possible to construct a scenario where this is not the case on account of packets arriving out-of-order. but there is no clean universal pill against this.
asciilifeform: punkman: not all that similar to mp's scheme, which to be fair he proposed before anyone knew what constant-time rsa costs
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-18 16:15:41 asciilifeform: the main obstacle currently is that non-leaking rsa is slow on pc.
asciilifeform: (pgpgrams then only for when folx actually need to have an authenticated or private conversation. as anywhere else on the net.)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-03 13:14:52 asciilifeform: gold standard would obv. be rsa signatures. but these aint practical at line-rate on pc sadly.
asciilifeform: thimbronion et al : the key bit is that ~validating~ a packet must be fast. (generating a valid one -- not necessarily; hence pow variant. rsa fails on both counts)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-18 16:15:41 asciilifeform: the main obstacle currently is that non-leaking rsa is slow on pc.
asciilifeform: gold standard would obv. be rsa signatures. but these aint practical at line-rate on pc sadly.
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-08-02 asciilifeform: one of these bargains is that you cannot build a career as a university academic with 'use rsa, kthx, bye'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-01#1042065 << if in fact p!=np, something like current-day popular cryptoism (e.g. rsa) could be 'possible' (i.e. not doomed to certain death)
puman: If they buy into "modern crypto is shamanism" premise, than interesting conversation is possible. If they don't buy, not much hope.
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-04-16 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: ahh that ignorant and antiquated notion, that "key size implies security size". or do you think there will be some amazing GNFS-like algorithms that come out for ECC, requiring ECC to use absurdly huge keys in the same way as RSA?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-18 16:15:41 asciilifeform: the main obstacle currently is that non-leaking rsa is slow on pc.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ultimately actual authentication, w/rsa, is better, noshit. but not practical for GB/s packet filtration w/out custom ic afaik.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: yes nearly universal in my personal experience.
gregorynyssa: tomorrow is 100th anniversary of founding of Chinese Communist Party.
dulapbot: Logged on 2019-10-31 14:12:43 asciilifeform: spyked: the 'clef' to that 'roman a clef' is imho pretty simple. mp ate at asciilifeform's technological table for 7+y w/out paying in anyffin but insults (i dun particularly care re the insults, imho it is how proper male conversation worx.) this had to stop eventually, as it meshed poorly w/ mp's 'self image' as 'god emperor'. last straw was when asciilifeform, after failure of piz, built new isp, with the orig bug that kille
asciilifeform: i also admit that i'ma be a little disappointed if mp stays dead; was hoping to see him universally exposed, lowered, humiliated, and eventually dead of vodka, eltsin-style.
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: IRC was designed as a system for conversations between idle strangers. per-user authentication contradicts decades of engrained customs.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-23 00:41:54 verisimilitude: There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation.
verisimilitude: There's so few of us, having TCP streams open with everyone else could even work. We could throw UDP packets at a logging daemon here and use the logs to get the whole conversation.
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-09-06 asciilifeform: if you actually want to verify 4096bit rsa packets at line rate, tho, yer stuck baking silicon.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 17:24:20 asciilifeform: let's do for lulz some arithm. i have a linux-3.16.70.tar handy, and inside 47452 files. now, a modexp (2048bit!) on ye olde koch-rsa eats 0.639s on my machine. so that'd be ~8.42 hours. not counting the hashing (my timing example did not include hashing, had pre-baked operands).
asciilifeform: (for that matter, this isn't even a problem peculiar to tcpism, but exists in the general case. the problem here is that you've already given 'allcomer' a chunk of memory for tcp statefulness, and only ~after~ this demanded rsa op.. )
asciilifeform: when you're using tcp, fact is that your box 'sees' EVERYTHING people throw at it, and invoking rsaism simply makes it easier to ddos your cpu
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-21 17:16:15 shinohai: has crazy idea "NICK" would be unnecessary if user had, say, RSA key in a wot directory and would only "see" messages from those in said wot
asciilifeform: shinohai: there's no hygienic way to bolt rsaism onto trad irc, this was iirc discussed to death
shinohai has crazy idea "NICK" would be unnecessary if user had, say, RSA key in a wot directory and would only "see" messages from those in said wot
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-21#1040321 << especially not with eventual RSA integration and support for content-based addressing.
verisimilitude: This is a depressing conversation.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: this q is still up in the air. i picked moar or less at random for the pilot box, simply to have where to continue conversation when fleanode finally gives up the ghost for good.
asciilifeform: billymg (and other readers not present last night) -- observe that e.g today's log contains a number of ln not visible in your fleanode session. these originate from asciilifeform's ersatz-net.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-19 15:37:15 asciilifeform: ftr if fleanode finally croaks tomorrow, readers are invited to read on asciilifeform's www where to find him, there's an ersatz box ready to go for this occasion.
shinohai: btw thimbronion ... do you like Rimsky-Korsakov? (Violin from Scheherazade has to be one of my all-time favorite things to listen to)
whaack: trinque: if trb needs friendly nodes to be functional, isn't that definitionally not bitcoin? << Of course bitcoin needs friendly nodes to be functional. Relaying a valid block is a friendly act. It needs to be simultaenously immune to adversarial nodes
trinque: I'd sooner encourage you to work on making the thing more parallel than setting up network of friendlies that still does poorly at the boundary between it and the rest of the adversarial network
whaack: it also begs the question whether one could create a cyclic transaction, i.e. the input of B is the output of A, but simultaneously the output of B is the input of A, and if there's no topological sort done than the only reason why this should be impossible is because you would need to find some form of h(A + h(B)) == h(B) and vice versa
asciilifeform: whaack: in order for an orphaned block to appear in a dumpblock sequence, the block gotta be on disk. there are 2 ways to stand up a node currently -- 1) from 'wild' 2) from dumpblock. in (2), for each orphaned block, you have a roughly 50% chance of the ~correct~ one appearing in the dump (breadth-1st traversal)
asciilifeform: whaack: dumpblock oughta be a top-down traversal.
verisimilitude: Mine admiration for authoritarianism derives purely from the idea that the better man should lead the weaker men, and not vice-versa.
asciilifeform: ftr if fleanode finally croaks tomorrow, readers are invited to read on asciilifeform's www where to find him, there's an ersatz box ready to go for this occasion.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-18 16:14:09 asciilifeform: also not very interested in schemes which are narrowly specific to chat, or www replacement. instead interested in general-purpose replacement for tcp, riding on top of existing net but with rsa pubkeys as deliverable addresses, zero knobs that unauthenticated ddosers can expensively push (incl. using captured authentic payloads) and complete opacity of traffic to any third party.
verisimilitude: In any case, I insist computers should bend to accomodate human language, not vice-versa.
asciilifeform: serial port is universal favourite, but 'cargo cultistically' imho -- if yer system is porous, it can be owned via serialport just as well as via ethernet; and aside from this, suppose i want to transmit at line rate ? now instead of 1G/s it's 115.2kB/s?
verisimilitude: I wouldn't be comfortable with an RSA key being directly attached to the Internet; surely it would be feasible to have a configuration with only the public key used to accept or reject blocks for later.
asciilifeform: the main obstacle currently is that non-leaking rsa is slow on pc.
asciilifeform also not very interested in schemes which are narrowly specific to chat, or www replacement. instead interested in general-purpose replacement for tcp, riding on top of existing net but with rsa pubkeys as deliverable addresses, zero knobs that unauthenticated ddosers can expensively push (incl. using captured authentic payloads) and complete opacity of traffic to any third party.
trinque: but 100% agree that RSA comes in.
asciilifeform: it aint a substitute for rsa.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-13 17:03:18 verisimilitude: On that note, it's been a week since I last mentioned our future conversation, asciilifeform; I'm not being impatient, and had considered mentioning I'd mention it again in one week, but thought that unnecessary, then.
verisimilitude: On that note, it's been a week since I last mentioned our future conversation, asciilifeform; I'm not being impatient, and had considered mentioning I'd mention it again in one week, but thought that unnecessary, then.
asciilifeform: then of course there are the 'historic' cases, e.g. where a telegraph in ru existed 7y prior to morse (but 'military secret' derpitude), c. cocks and his rsa (british seekrit) prior to rivest, etc
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: pretty tight space if including e.g. rsa signatures.
adlai: realtime ~= both participants of th econversation place a watch on the table
adlai: however, that conversation has fractured between at least two of the places where I've been talking my head off.
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2021/03/mercosur-30th-anniversary-meeting-highlights-dissatisfaction-with-argentine-ballast-as-president-lacalle-pou-confronts-argentine-despot-fernandez/ << The Montevideo Standard -- MERCOSUR 30th Anniversary Meeting Highlights Dissatisfaction With Argentine "Ballast" As President Lacalle Pou Confronts Argentine Despot Fernandez
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-13#1033179 << this is in principle how it oughta be ('if you can decrypt it, it's for you') but in practice gnarly simply because rsa is cpu-expensive
adlai: reddit at least has one forum called "ChangeMyView", where people go specifically in order to have open conversation; the generic "comment on news story" model does not prime folks for learning, only for responding.
adlai must confess: while sober - wastes time at solving trivial textbook problems of group theory, iteratively alpha-beta-ing mobile games, sieving reddit for interesting conversations [e.g. "what if you owned an acre, but no municipal garbage collection?"]
asciilifeform gotta repeat the ancient wisdom of ye olde 1990s sci.crypt newsgroup : 'i solved rsa!111' paper would be over-9000x moar persuasive if accompanied by the private p,q primes of a famous pubkey
shinohai: This whole conversation sound suspiciously like http://www.wtfpl.net/about/ xD
trinque: I'm clearly still too close to the god-forsaken cities.
shinohai: Heya pyc ... logs for chan are available in topic. Conversations start up sporadically, but logs should give you idea.
asciilifeform: 'actual' as in not mdf/particleboard/whatever other names ersatz wood goes by.
asciilifeform: adlai: 'btc pinkertons' reduce, universally, to variants of this.
adlai: yep, this conversation is far beyond the cliff edge of talking on solid ground.
asciilifeform: ( in sci.crypt was recurrent thread: 'i broke rsa!' 'ok, here's a pubkey, gimme the priv. p,q' '...' 'i'm waiting' 'you DON'T UNDERSTAND!! MY BREAKTHROUGH!' '...' )
adlai has babbled quite a bit, and could use a few kilocalories; thank you, trinque and shinohai , for keeping the conversation going.
trinque: maybe what's being calculated with wot traversal is the probability of defection in a prisoner's dilemma between nodes.
trinque: one'd have to choose an algo for how to value the edge traversals from me to you, I think, before saying more.
verisimilitude: Sure, it's reducible, in the same way this conversation is reducible to atoms.
verisimilitude: I didn't mention Jews, but this conversation makes me think of a saying I'd thought of and have been saving since.
verisimilitude: He does recommend against using RSA, where possible, and repeats that nonsense about not writing cryptographic code at all.
verisimilitude: I'll mention this, regarding that earlier RSA discussion. I'm not experienced enough to judge this article. Be forewarned it's written by a furry, and he may visit this channel, since he checks his referrers for just this.
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-03-22 asciilifeform: aaaaanything-but-rsa!!!1111
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-03-02 asciilifeform: the 'let's use anything, ANYTHING but rsa' thing really grates on me.
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-08-07 asciilifeform: because 'you can't get tenure by saying let's-use-rsa' and you won't get $trillion if you ~do~ dig up the old blueprint
adlai: you may find it amusing that one of the quickest "nope"s out of a conversation with a professor that I ever attained on-campus was after asking, "why does statistical thermodynamics presume unbiased selection of edges"
adlai: the difference between reasoned tools and the unreasoned one is that you can't go back to using a reflex after you have decided to forsake it for the benefit of a reasoned response.
adlai: honestly, I think that's a better approach; it's a problematic topic, anyway. nitpicking people's word choice has never gone well in my conversations, and it probably doesn't go too well in those of anyone who isn't getting paid for that exact service, either.
adlai: that one line might actually respond to everything that was spoken in here since my previous conversation, although I must remark that I never viewed Mircea as some sorta upstanding role model, nor really as anything other than a generous ?illionaire who was teaching by example rather than by sermon;
verisimilitude: I've been in conversations with another fellow who wants to work on P2P communications; perhaps I'll point him here.
asciilifeform: where 'traditionally' implemented (i.e. variable-time w/ hamming weight of inputs) rsa -- leaks secrets
trinque: what's imagining a conversation with someone else but conjuring up another being, just like "I"
trinque: and I smacked 'em when they were having a conversation with their head-spirits just as I do here
adlai: several of the productions were musicals, so involved lots of choreography rehearsals. it's quite strange how distanced I've become from what I actually, in retrospect, spent a significant fraction of my life doing.
adlai: definitely was, from 4th through 12th grade; including semesters where theatre rehearsals counted as 'sports' credit for the students.
adlai: yet the logs are littered with my recent attempts to have anything remotely resembling real-time conversation using a similar point-by-point process.
asciilifeform: gpg: Signature made Sun 06 Dec 2020 08:54:11 PM EST using RSA key ID B877BC3C
adlai did recently register a few fleanode spammles, although they are all one-man ghost towns, due to neither buying spam, nor encouraging conversation.
verisimilitude: Sure, and this conversation is just atoms, but some models lose their usefulness at a point.
adlai: this CO was one of that rare breed of human who can fall asleep standing up in mid conversation, while ~he~ is talking to ~you~!
asciilifeform: imho any proposal for glorious coin-of-the-fyootoor gotta be not significantly more complicated than rsa
asciilifeform ftr does not expect magical techno-pill 'against soroses', bitcoin or otherwise, to be effective alone. imho is lunacy to expect even universal pill against cockroaches, much less soroses.
asciilifeform: mats: observe that already nothing keeps e.g. mats from signing asciilifeform's pubkey, and vice-versa. w/out any need to designate one or the other as 'authority'
billymg: could just be wishful thinking on my part but i do think it has some advantages for them. they avoid the mess of having to go door-to-door and they placate a small but potentially adversarial part of the population
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-12-11 phf: goes back to our conversation about "why you no respect ptacek". since their opinions are not hinged on any deliberately lived experience, they change them according to fashions. if you happen to be fashion aligned you'll think that they are geniuses, but as soon as you start doing your own thing, you realize just how superficial they are
cgra: the stage 2 didn't work for me as is, because texinfo seems to depend on help2man, *and* vice versa
snsabot: Logged on 2020-12-04 09:29:42 gregorynyssa: I was reading some of the old logs. this conversation was remarkable: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2015-06-24
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-04#1025855 << ~which~ conversation ? you linked to a date w/ almost MB of log...

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