verisimilitude: I see I wasn't paying attention is all.
PeterL: oh, hey, I see I got it to work (connected to new server)
asciilifeform: welcome, PeterL !
asciilifeform: and wb verisimilitude
asciilifeform: see, wasn't hard.
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.033s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.114s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=687812 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.205s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.162s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.238s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.264s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.301s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (static.126.96.36.199.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.580s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412055 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.663s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687812
PeterL: are you planning to add any authentication here?
asciilifeform: PeterL: eventually
asciilifeform: PeterL: if you think about it -- the current joke authentication is not even all that much different from the assurance level we had from fleanode
asciilifeform: (there was nuffin to stop a fleanode admin from impersonating a user, channel, etc. if he felt like it)
PeterL: so what about a deedbot style cryptographic challenge?
asciilifeform: PeterL: that's my current notion. but will need some gluing to make it work correctly.
asciilifeform: the irctron i used is a quite massive pile of overflowandcrashlang. (like all extant ones afaik)
asciilifeform: PeterL: notion is, when we have 5-6 relays, will have already better stability than fleanode ever had at any point while i used it ('13--present)
asciilifeform: 1 remaining puzzler in my mind re deedbot-style auth for these relays, is how to make for compatibility w/ znc & similar.
PeterL: what makes znc puzzler?
asciilifeform: (and for that matter most commonplace irc clients presume a stored pw, rather than somebody getting a challenge, going to get his launch codes, decoding...)
asciilifeform: PeterL: see above
PeterL: Maybe require authentication through pm prior to joining a channel?
asciilifeform: promises to be painful for guests (1 of the things i actually liked about fleanode was the possibility of unknown folx occasionally coming in. can always throw'em out later)
PeterL: True. I suppose you can wait to see if anybody tries to abuse system before putting up defenses.
asciilifeform: PeterL: aha. consider that i am not making a replacement for public fleanode.
PeterL: Good practice at this point is to put things that need authetication into pgp-grams anyway
asciilifeform: PeterL: just as before, neh
asciilifeform: the authenticity and privacy 'promises' of whatever irc net are an illusion, and what better way to remind people of it than by replacing all auth with a toy lock w/ plastic key.
asciilifeform: the only problem with such scheme in the longer term is that some fuckwad will eventually show up and start to shit here.
asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot already can solve this problem, incidentally. i'd like to get this micro-fleanode to the point where he's willing to plant deedbot there.
PeterL: are you going to come up with a cool name for this network?
asciilifeform: notyet, atm simply stolid 'dulapnet'. lessee who even bothers to use it, while regular sad old fleanode still (sorta) worx
PeterL: what's the origin of the name Dulap, out of curiosity?
asciilifeform: PeterL: mp's story w/ the cock-chopper machine. but actually simply ro for wardrobe.
asciilifeform: (err, smaller than wardrobe, more like bedside stand. not sure what the correct engl. equiv. is)
asciilifeform: i originally named the 1st large machine we obtained for phuctor 'dulap', after this, and subsequent 'dulap II', III, IV (the item we're speaking into atm, and also hosting the logs)
PeterL: so the machine is a closet for keeping various, or you keep the machine in your closet? or just a name?
asciilifeform: PeterL: if you search the logs, can probably find the orig. story from whence the name. ( i can't be arsed to try & dig it out of mp's www , but expect that it's still there, somewhere )
asciilifeform: PeterL: observe that dulap is also a catalogue entry, it refers to specific type of machine that i offer to customers, likewise.
asciilifeform: upstack, re names, is not so important what to call it, as ideally will simply be a private net operated by folx in my l1, for their l2, and with no expectation that my node is somehow 'center of universe'. individual relay keepers can name theirs whatever they like.
asciilifeform: a minus of irc is that peering requires a somewhat laborious process for each link; and my understanding is that also relies on sslism.
asciilifeform: overall this is considerably more work than sitting on fleanode & similar, and with 0 immediate reward (other than, of course, no longer having to be chased like a hobo from 1 dying net to another..) hence why not popular option, and i've nfi whether folx will be willing to move.
asciilifeform: currently asciilifeform's priority for this item is to get a peer ~outside of asciilifeform's dc~ -- given as irc is my primary means of contact w/ subscribers.
billymg: i'm not too familiar with how IRC works but why would fleanode migrate servers and not bring the old data with them, e.g. the nick and chan registrations?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-15 09:41:15 asciilifeform: shinohai: i suspect that the new fleanode is simply 1 box on lulazon, to replace the flaking 'volunteer' thing
asciilifeform: billymg: the old net was run as a distributed thing with rather gnarly softs, operated by 3-4 people, who ragequit more or less simult.
asciilifeform: billymg: it in fact wasn't a decentralized, in terms of actual control item.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-29 12:34:18 asciilifeform: at one time considered to host a fleanode noad in his rack. but then learned that they expect, for 100% phree, an ~entire~ 1u, w/ exclusive root, running whatever shitware, and offer absolutely nuffin in exchange
asciilifeform: billymg: per the various recent forum wanks re subj, the final act of various 'emigrating' channel ops was to switch chan to silent and put up 'we hate! go to libera' banners. and when new op took down, old would come back and put up again.
asciilifeform: billymg: eventually mr moneybag got tired of this (per fleanode www) and had all the old infrastructure dynamited.
asciilifeform: billymg (and other readers not present last night) -- observe that e.g today's log contains a number of ln not visible in your fleanode session. these originate from asciilifeform's ersatz-net.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-15 22:06:55 asciilifeform: 184.108.40.206:6667
asciilifeform: erryone currently tuned in is invited to connect (i rec. to do so in ~addition~ to, rather than in place of, your current fleanode session.. whole thing still rather 'duct tape' in nature)
billymg: asciilifeform: ty for the explanation, will hop over to your net soon
asciilifeform: there's an sslism btw at port 6697, but only because the package i used offered no way to disable, lol. i do not intend to support its use in the future (but if you have irc client which insists on sslistic connection, e.g. crapple's, can use.)
shinohai has to remember how to auto send pass on weechat first
asciilifeform: welcome to dulapnet, shinohai !
shinohai: Oh hai asciilifeform ... been a long time since I set autopass on this thing xD
asciilifeform: this makes 4 of us.
shinohai: Gonna require a bit of thought how to make bot connect here, but I suppose no rush for now.
shinohai: brb fixing weechat opts
asciilifeform: hello Aerthean
asciilifeform: !q seen-anywhere Aerthean
dulapbot: Aerthean last seen in #asciilifeform on 2021-04-06 20:42:29: Then proceed to the "I'm sorry for your loss" playbook when it doesn't work out
Aerthean: Hi ascii, I've been following the logs, and mostly here to confirm that I can connect to your server.
asciilifeform: Aerthean: welcome. please keep in mind that the only bridge b/w dulapnet and fleanode is my log www; messages spoken here will appear in the latter but not in fleanode.
asciilifeform: i expect we'll have additional peers in this net in near future but probably not this wk.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039439 << i had to commit this kludge warcrime to get the bot to talk to 'unreal irc'.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 13:35:56 shinohai: Gonna require a bit of thought how to make bot connect here, but I suppose no rush for now.
Aerthean: Okay. I seldomly used IRC in the past, so the death and migration from Fleanode causes me no trouble.
asciilifeform: shinohai: the ~proper~ way to do it would be to wait for a '103' message from server when connecting, before emitting a JOIN. but was in a hurry.
shinohai: asciilifeform was right about libera being sjw's I'm already klined for posting pr0n
asciilifeform: lol! that was fast!
shinohai: "muh Swedish lawz"
asciilifeform: aaaand betcha you thought, shinohai , that i was exaggerating
asciilifeform: fleanode demolition was a planned, funded project.
shinohai: Oh no! I believed you, just made rash decision on the road to move there, because I have shitcoiners to fleece.
asciilifeform: where to fleece, is b/w you & beelzebub, lol
shinohai: Most of 'em on that abomination "Telegram" but still have few that find me via irc
verisimilitude: The #asciilifeform is the only reason I tolerated Freenode. Separate networks are nicest.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: didntcha say you tuned into #ada & similar ?
asciilifeform: these heathen pits were perhaps 1 of the few attractions of a mass public net like fleanode. in olden times, could even get answers to difficult puzzlers in such chans.
verisimilitude: Yes, but only because I was already in #asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: (but in recent yrs asciilifeform did not even bother, result was rathe predictable)
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: a ok
verisimilitude: Unfortunately, #ada has me using Libera now. I've made certain to point out how this is a ``We did it, Reddit!'' situation.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: do they have a www log ?
asciilifeform: picture, same noob q getting asked 9000+times
verisimilitude: That implies there are enough people learning Ada to cause that problem.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i confess, very quickly came to the conclusion that the ada asciilifeform programs in is effectively a diff. lang. from the one discussed in forums.
verisimilitude: It's just a subset, right?
asciilifeform: welcome to dulapnet, dpb !
dpb: oh is that what i should name it?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 10:43:09 asciilifeform: upstack, re names, is not so important what to call it, as ideally will simply be a private net operated by folx in my l1, for their l2, and with no expectation that my node is somehow 'center of universe'. individual relay keepers can name theirs whatever they like.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: strictly speaking -- subset. in practice leads to very different points of friction and rather differently-shaped proggies than seen in books, shithub, etc
verisimilitude: Ada is designed to be used like that.
shinohai: top kek. ^
PeterL: verisimilitude: could you expand on what you mean by "used like that"?
shinohai reading above wankage would like to remind asciilifeform that if he publishes sigs for keccak trb vtree, will gladly add to his mirror
magnus: hello asciilifeform
magnus: longtime log-eater and reader here; did not want to lose access when fleanode goes dark...
shinohai: welcome magnus
magnus: thx shinohai
PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039447 << Why do you consider this a kludge warcrime?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 13:46:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039439 << i had to commit this kludge warcrime to get the bot to talk to 'unreal irc'.
magnus: lol, thx dpb :)
dpb: yw, may God save you
magnus: (makes the sign of the cross)
verisimilitude: Oh, that was dpb, then.
verisimilitude: Ada is meant to be constrained and used as subsets, PeterL.
asciilifeform: welcome magnus . ( dpb is this 1 of your folx? )
magnus: ty asciilifeform, not 1 of dpb's folx
asciilifeform: a ok. magnus how and when didja come to read the logs? what subjs interest you?
magnus: been reading trilema logs for several years, till imploded...
magnus: was interested in uclibc linux distros in mid 90s and worked at building some...
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039488 << elementarily, it's a textbook example of kludge because it uses 'received 3 messages' as the signal for when to send JOIN. rather than properly listening for ack of login. (exactly like how my hardcoded delay for logging into fleanode was kludge.)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 16:08:16 PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039447 << Why do you consider this a kludge warcrime?
magnus: interests mostly revolve around langs, micro-distros, new approaches to comp arch...
asciilifeform: magnus: neato. have you tried trinque's linux ?
magnus: I have not yet but def on list of items to do...
magnus: was his the musl-based gentoo variant?>
asciilifeform: magnus: he had 2 items; 1 was a gentoo variant, the more recent -- an ab initio piece
asciilifeform: both musl-based
magnus: will examine
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039483 << i'm still hoping to see jurov return. then will post in the designated place.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 15:43:56 shinohai: reading above wankage would like to remind asciilifeform that if he publishes sigs for keccak trb vtree, will gladly add to his mirror
asciilifeform was thinking in re: 'dulapnet' -- imho would be fair play if he who wishes to have a chan, contributes a machine for relay.
asciilifeform: ... for this purpose, sadly, machines in asciilifeform's rack cannot be counted (as already there is 1 such)
asciilifeform reads ircd log, waves to phf. (hey phf et al -- current pw is simply FG baud rate.)
lobbes: so right now, the only irc server I seem to be able to connect my server irssi to is dulapnet. 'chat.freenode' outright refuses connection; weird
lobbes: anyways, I gotta knock some other things out, but I'll get my bots back online sometime in the next two days (logbot and auctionbot)
asciilifeform: welcome, lobbes !