Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2021-08-17 | 2021-08-19 →
cgra: << live approximately within a few days, will announce here
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-17 14:39:42 billymg: cgra: glad to hear, is your blog live anywhere yet? and definitely let me know if you run into issues or see things you'd like added
cgra: << i currently have other plans, but not 100%, so i will keep this in mind, thanks!
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-17 14:51:37 asciilifeform: oblig. spam: would be honoured to offer cgra rack service! supposing he doesn't already have.
asciilifeform looks fwd to reading cgra's new www
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=696405
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.110s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.089s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=696405
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=696405 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405
watchglass: : Alive: (0.234s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.261s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405
watchglass: : Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=696405
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.294s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=689331
watchglass: : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $45895.23
asciilifeform: whaack: your subscription renewal is officially processed! congrats! you're paid up nao through 16 aug 2022 !
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-17 14:36:53 whaack: i tried to verify the encrypted msg
whaack: asciilifeform: awesome!
adlai spent nearly an entire circadian tweaking secondhand irons, to get a better idea of the labors that would be saved by an RK server subscription
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-01-19 19:14:37 adlai: is seriously considering, in case this was not crystal clear by now, 5th and 6th decades of life on this green earth as electronics junkyard proprietor.
adlai: I realise that the service S.ALF is providing is has almost entirely null intersection with the services of 'junkyard proprietor'; however, in this specific case, my work is towards a 'home server' setup
asciilifeform realizes that adlai is likely speaking figuratively in re '' , but must point out for readers that asciilifeform's isp does not solicit or accept investments, a la mp's operations or in any other way other than via custom.
adlai: << I have a few specific questions, after reviewing this... the most pointed one is whether the "cleanup charge" is the only moving part in the accounting that depends on bandwidth consumption.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-11 22:08:03 asciilifeform: adlai: so then, read the instructions and see which if any catalogue item worx for you. (plz note that the prices are not negotiable)
asciilifeform: ( see also possibly-entertaining vintage wank re subj )
dulapbot: Logged on 2019-11-08 20:47:52 asciilifeform: if i operate a parking garage, and i permit obama to park his abrams tank, it does not constitute a '20mil $ investment in asciilifeform's garage' .
asciilifeform: adlai: plox to link to selection from the handbook article
adlai: HFT could be considered spam, and in fact some exchanges use the words interchangeably.
asciilifeform: broken link
adlai: blyart
adlai: it's to the paragraph containing "release of an IP address ... will incur a 50 $ cleanup charge."
asciilifeform: adlai: this simply means that if you've rendered an ip addr unusable, but intend to continue subscription, you will need a new one, and this is a considerable bother on my end that is to be paid for.
adlai: fwiw, the rate limiters that I've seen in the exchanges that I've actually used vigorously enough to have experience with, rather than merely having read the terms of their API, all reset after e.g. 24 hours
asciilifeform: ftr this has not, of yet, happened to any of asciilifeform's subscribers.
adlai: so I do not anticipate wrecking address registrations
asciilifeform: adlai: the intention of that paragraph is to remind subscribers that asciilifeform aint in the biz of supplying 'fresh' ip addrs to replace 'burned' ones
asciilifeform: the addrs themselves are leased from upstream vendor and relatively expensive.
adlai: right. my pointy question, however, stems from wondering whether the contract and billing described in the link are fair for a server planned to be used for a tradebot that runs as close to the ratelimits as practical; and my concern is that my server would be an outlier in bandwidth consumption.
asciilifeform: adlai: what kinda bw consumption do you anticipate ?
asciilifeform: (avg. case)
adlai: I have no sane and honest ballpark.
asciilifeform: adlai: may want to estimate. entire cage runs off a 100mbit pipe. (at the moment aint particularly crowded, but this is the peak bw avail.)
adlai: the cliche about "bandwidth consumption by streaming porno and zoom circlejerks grows to fill the available capacity" probably applies to automated trading systems, too.
asciilifeform: adlai: pretty sure i explained this previously, but the current rule is, if yer 'a hog' and other subscribers complain, you will get to pick b/w being dead last in QoS prioritizer or to be billed for segregated personal pipe (~100 usd / mo)
adlai: it's probably saner to be aware of the cage's bandwidth capacity, and chop downwards from there to compute soft sanity and hard insanity limits of bandwidth consumption, rather than to bloviate about a configuration that I've never tried yet for my program.
adlai: those options seem fair, especially considering that nobody has yet caused such complaints.
adlai: fwiw, my current 'rate limiting' is mostly locking inefficiencies and various calls to (sleep (/ small-integer)) ; when these are all removed, program consumes the public firehose from the exchange, and sends position adjustments as rapidly as the exchange allows
adlai: obviously, not a tactic employable by any significant fraction of the exchange participants, otherwise there is a ridiculous blowup in communications complexity
asciilifeform: adlai: outta curiosity, made any dough yet doing this ?
adlai suspects that some theoretical result along the lines of "bucketing improves market efficiency" is provable, although it is not exactly politically palpable research to publish!
adlai: ya know how it goes, no?
adlai: the kind of trading I do is epsilon-profitable almost all the time, and gets sporadic coarse losses every now and then.
asciilifeform: soo, profitable if you don't count the losses? lolk
adlai: the kind of market crashes that happened around mid-february and -march of 2020, and the kind of crazy rallies that happen in bull runs, are too rapid for a naive volatility harvester, and cause losses.
asciilifeform: from isp pov aint any of my biz. but as someone who silently dabbled in autotraderism in past years, cannot resist to ask.
adlai: no strategy is ever 'profitable'
adlai: all are probabilistic, until you are examining a sequence of trades already performed in a market, and then it either made money, or lost money.
adlai has accounts that were net-profitable, over the course of an entire trading experiment... if you account only in fiat value of assets!
asciilifeform: adlai: ~that~ is as easy as 'hodl', lol
adlai: iirc, the only account that was ever net-profitable in btc over the entire experiment was S.MPEX
asciilifeform however considers 'profit' to be when you end up with moar of the unit you had put in, at the end, than at start.
adlai: right
adlai: amusingly enough, the code that I had written up to the time of starting the S.MPOE experiment had this kind of logic implicitly hardcoded into it, and as a result, spent a disturbing amount of time accumulating its profit in shares
adlai: it was not difficult to change the logic so that this bias was configurable, and then configure it to keep profits in btc instead.
asciilifeform: adlai: i suppose was a++, while pyramid was going
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-10 20:34:17 asciilifeform: even a rube like asciilifeform , even in '12, was able to see that it was a pyramid
adlai wonders whether to comment here, or on the article, that payment issues need clarification now that deedbot's wallet service is gone
asciilifeform: adlai: here plz.
asciilifeform: adlai: see here 1st.
adlai hopes that this conversation does not count as negotiation, nor "concerning the details of a payment"
asciilifeform: adlai: at the risk of pedantism -- if you pay to an addr that you saw somewhere other than a signed message from asciilifeform specifically concerning your subscription -- you paid to /dev/null.
asciilifeform: on top of this (and this is in handbook) you 1st request the machine, then asciilifeform confirms that it is in stock, installs os, plugs it in, ~then~ you pay.
asciilifeform: then you get a signed msg w/ login & ssh fp.
adlai: e.g.: is it sane/polite/reasonable to lease either the 256G or 1T options for a trial month, so that the locked-in price of a subsequent long-term lease can be for the 128G in case that is sufficient.
asciilifeform thought this was pretty clear from the written instructions
adlai: my gut says that this is an unreasonable approach, because I know that even 128G is multiple OOMs beyond what I require, and the extra gigs are arguably ye olde 'problem of too much money'
adlai: "oh, I have all these extra gigabytes and don't have to throw away live trade feeds and orderbook data every day? I know, I'll train neural networks!"
asciilifeform: adlai: have you used rk before ?
adlai: asciilifeform: your pedantry is, as usual, reasonable.
adlai: nope.
asciilifeform: adlai: may want to make sure your softs work on arm64.
asciilifeform: (e.g. sbcl does. but if you have oddball custom extensions, then nfi)
asciilifeform: adlai: anyways lemme know what size of ssd you want, and pgpgram to asciilifeform ; i may have to order it.
adlai hypothesizes that, on the continuum between oxen and chickens, the RK's horsepower is... four velociraptors?
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-11-11 asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform strongly suspects that the idea of replacing '2 strong oxen with 1024 chickens' in the ~general case~ is a perpetuum mobile. witness the heathens and their 'cloudism' , it is a circus )
asciilifeform: adlai: e.g. jurov's lxr, dpb's blog, coupla other people, currently on rk
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's logger was on a rk for most of 1st yr post-piz
asciilifeform: iirc billymg's logger is on a rk
adlai: I doubt that any of the parts that are not standard CL are finicky enough to care whether it's arm64 or x86_64
adlai has encountered headaches with 32bit machines, though!
asciilifeform: it's an arm64 adlai
asciilifeform: (fat lotta good it does tho, w/ only 2G of mem)
asciilifeform: (there was a 4GB variant but they were historically ~unobtainable)
adlai: the 2G RAM is an interesting challenge; I currently float between 100M and 1G, although this is mainly by running 'stateless' and tossing all accumulable data to the GC.
asciilifeform: adlai: if yer actually below 1G, how is 2 'challenge'..?
adlai has always supposed that the 'sufficiently smart tradebot' does some sort of exponential-weighted-accumulation to keep its memory consumption constant-space.
adlai: well, that is my range when using Clozure CL, that has more compact representations for ~everything than SBCL ; back when I used SBCL for this, I routinely had the "toss accumulables to GC" preempted by a segfault killing the whole process.
asciilifeform: consing left & right, eh
adlai: the lame and lazy solution is simply to not accumulate, run (sb-ext:gc) often enough, etc.; much easier than solving hard problems
adlai: yes, parsing JSON websockets conses up a storm
adlai: fortunately both SBCL and CCL have generational collectors
adlai: there are a few places where I sneak in a (rplacd (nthcdr ...) ()), tho
adlai: that is CL's (defun free-tail (linked-list) ..)!
asciilifeform wonders whether sbcl supports pools a la ada
asciilifeform: y'know, 'all conses in the following (progn.. ) to come from this-here array, and will die when it dies)
adlai: that is where, e.g. hash-table with keys of type (vector (3) fixnum) reuses the vectors?
asciilifeform: adlai: more general.
adlai is probably thinking of something different... yes
adlai: iirc what you described is occasionally called "hash consing" , thus my confusion.
asciilifeform: adlai: it's called 'from this point here to that point there all conses will come from this-here array and when it's full, nomoar consing, and when gc'd, they all get gc'd'
adlai: this seems to not specify what form of failure occurs when reaching the point of 'nomoar consing'
asciilifeform: eggog condition
adlai: I guess this is actually quite a reasonable 'static parallel' to the hash consing idea
adlai: in a hash consing situation, you get colliding objects, instead of running out of space.
adlai: it is only sane when the objects are immutable, and your usecase has multiple references to a bunch of points that are sparse within a much larger set.
adlai thinks of caching as a much more complex bunch of problems, all dealing with the cases where the data is partially mutable, and thus the cached copies 'expire'
adlai: speaking of expiration, I should eat before the food starts to wake up and plan how to eat me.
asciilifeform: laters then.
adlai: ttyl!
vex: I'm surprised to read that asciilifeform dabbled in robotrading
asciilifeform: vex: i wasn't born knowing that all online 'trade xyz' houses, without exception, front run the fuck outta errything
vex: how much did that lesson cost, if you don't mind sharing?
asciilifeform: vex: ~0, this was pre-btcism
vex: ah
vex left wondering if alf was actually employed to write frontrunner, wonders what else he's dabbled in
asciilifeform: vex: i'd expect that when you employ folx to write frontrunner, you shoot'em afterwards
vex: lol
vex: have you ever gambled on horse racing aciilifeform?
vex: I suspect bookmakers still take bets from zeljko et all because for the maxint they take, they're actually providing doog info to the market
vex: *good even
vex: if the market were bigger, they'd take more
asciilifeform: vex: i have genuinely nfi re that last item, the names dun mean anyffin to me
vex: those kids from tasmania who dropped out of uni to count cards
vex: the horse racing still pays for the museum of modern arts
adlai should try guaging, at some point, the time and effort wasted on cooking and cleaning when he eats at home, as opposed to when he eats at an establishment and lets the cooking and cleaning be wholesaled to professionals
adlai: the only redeeming quality of doing this home alone is that I don't have to wear pants, and can read a topology book across the plate
adlai still doesn't quite understand the mental gymnastics of 'CW Complexes', although at least managed to think his way through the two easy ways to create a riemann sphere, and confirmed that they give the same complex
adlai: however, it seems that this is one of these infuriating cases where, while in books on group theory the authors frequently flog to a pulp the whole "these groups are isomorphic, although they are not the same group" shtick, in this topology book, the author forgets to mention that CW complexes are merely homeomorphic and not identical
vex: what's your hft bot trade on adlai? i assumed bc, but my assumtions are shit
vex: soz. enjoy your meal
adlai: you may discuss physics, topology, gambling, anti-facts, whatever. only rule, no high finance.
adlai admits that he may regress to slogging through the dead-tree Munkres's General, instead of continuing the warez pdf of Hatcher's Algebraic
adlai: there is something cool about having a usable index and table-of-contents, and regrettably, the links in the PDF are less usable than a disintegrating paperback that literally has one sheaf sewn with the pages in descending order
adlai has no idea how this special copy came to be... maybe stitched together with clippings and rejects from the floor beside the printing press?
adlai: even the cover resembles warez PDFs: the book itself is all paper, and then there is a cutout square with the book's official cover image, glued onto the outer sheaf
adlai is reminded of warez PDFs of textbooks that circulate in the university, where the body is quite clearly an official PDF from the publisher, yet there is a mysterious 'page zero' at the start, with the title of the book, the username of some uploader probably old enough to be my dad, and the rest of the space taken up by... 'art'
adlai: vex: u literate?
vex: kinda
vex: I suspect my library looks a liottle different to yours
adlai: i mean in the voluntary sense, not in the sense of "is capable of parsing nutritional disclosure on booze bottle"
adlai: well you have a library, that's a start!
vex: I've got enough dead trees, I get carbon credits from eu
adlai: "literate, in the voluntary sense" ~= keeps books, sometimes takes years to finish one, sometimes reads one without pausing to take a dump, etc
adlai: algebraic topology is horrible
vex: I'll admit, I'm not an acomplished mathematician, so my hat is off in that regard
adlai: in Munkres's book, there are entire paragraphs about how topology is like a truck full of gravel, whereas in algebraic topology it almost all just looks like the stereotypical hieroglyph-covered chalkboard, although there are cool line drawings of paths on surfaces
adlai: one friend once convinced me that pure mathematics is actually not a sign of intelligence, only of perseverence
vex: that's a nice thought
adlai: intelligence is being able to save the trouble of perseverence for someone who doesn't have the patience, i.e. teaching
adlai: 'save the trouble' might be an overstatement; at least, they make the road visible, as opposed to it being hidden by the cliche "flashes of insight", and what people rarely hear about -- endless tedium where the mathematician is simply exploring dead ends and stoopid loops like a drunkard playing left-hand-rule in a third-world shithole
adlai: oh we've talked about scifi
adlai: vex have you read Diaspora ? or heard of Greg Egan's scifi
vex: it's prolly in the logs, but no, I haven't read Diaspora
adlai: it's a bit heavy on the mathematics, although that book conveys exactly what I meant there, about how "doing mathematics" often boils down to doing a sort of random walk through a maze
vex: good book huh?
vex: It might be at my favourite bookshop, but I'm told the army is on the road
adlai: ehhh. I'd not have recommended it after the first reading, and I'm honestly not sure what made me reread it. I wasn't doing it specifically because of any mathematical topic I'd learned in between them. maybe it was because I wanted to return it to the lender?
adlai: I have trouble recommending it, as a novel, because it is basically a collection of short stories that have a few common characters
adlai: there is a grand theme tying it all together (Earth will become unhabitable, so there is a diaspora to outer space), although that is more just a sort of fact that hangs around in the background and is not strong enough to give the separate stories cohesion
adlai: most of the characters are not human (most are abstract programs existing inside a massive computer), and while the author does a good job of describing their non-human existence, they aren't directly relatable for a human reader.
adlai: there are also human characters, it's not all singularity mumbojumbo.
vex: no problem, brb
adlai: lol vex's quit messages
adlai: previous one - "vex has quit (defiantly)" ; this one - "defiantly"
adlai: er, previous was "politely"
adlai: c.blyat, asciilifeform ! why is "STATS" listed under USERCMDS if every flag I query gives me a "Permission Denied- You do not have the correct IRC operator privileges" !?
vex: I ain't defiant, turned around
adlai: no RULES, no MOTD, ... what is this amateur bucketnet of an irc server anyways
vex: I wanna know what pet cooks dinner at 3 in the morning
vex: it's all good adlai
adlai: food coma is one of the ways that I put myself to sleep
vex: there's worse ways to do it
adlai: although this was all vegetablech and not enough complex biopolymers that need lots of energy to digest
vex: I must say I appreciat ethe convo, errytime
vex: get a steak in ya
adlai: if only every meal could be centered around half a kg of meat
vex: use mathematics to buy a cattle station
vex: are you tied to the middle east?
adlai: not really; it is mostly inertia right now
adlai: there are plenty of ranches in Israel, though. up in the north.
adlai: 90% of what officers did in every field exercise was coordinate troop movements across pasture boundaries, so that the cattle wouldn't get lost in minefields
vex: come to oz, you can get super drunk and fly helicopter
vex: chicks love that kinda shit
adlai: what about camping in the outback?
vex: yep, doesn't even cost 20 milly
adlai: stock up on two weeks of water, vegetables, rice, and ammo, then leave hamiltonian tessalations of rabbit skeletons for the drunken helicopter pilots to retrace
vex: go ask cazalla
vex: if you've got no money and no girl, there worse places to be
vex: tbh i was never sure if quit messaging went thru on dulap. tnks for the info adali
adlai: I keep telling myself that I should revisit the negev; maybe I should just forget the negev and go visit other deserts
vex: whats negev?
adlai: the negev is the northeasternmost corner of the sahara, where it squeezes between the mediterranean sea and the red sea, until the judean mountains where jerusalem is located
adlai: so basically, eastern egypt, southern israel, and western jordan
vex: you're actual desert people
adlai: I'm not really desert people. my entire spiritual connection to the desert is from a vacation visiting petra and wadi rum, a camping trip in middle school, and a few months of rather mild hell in the beginning of the military service
adlai: even during the worst parts of the military service, I never spent more than a consecutive week in the desert
vex: tey cross hte simspon alone
adlai: "in the desert" = no roof thicker than an AFV
vex: you will see some stars
vex: i don't recommend a camel
adlai: the camping trip in middle school was on camels!
vex: that's pretty fuckjing cool
adlai: bedouin guides, camels for heavy luggage, and a few extra camels so the laziest kids didn't have to walk the entire way
adlai: although, not enough camels so they never had to walk
vex: now come to oz, make 5k pw shooting the cunts out of a helicopter
adlai: "5k pw" !?
vex: prolly, you negotiate yourself
adlai: what is "pw", 'per week' ?
vex: indeed
vex: ive never gone camel shooting, so i'm just guessing
adlai: that is a lame interventionism, though. why not release a seed population of a foreign species, because it worked so well with the rabbits
vex: they get to pest proportions here
adlai: get the most outlier jaguars from the driest parts of south america, surely they can make the leap from bagging the occasional llama to staving off dehydration from camel hump fat
vex: mate, if you wanna genius the system, just rock up
adlai: once the camel populations get thinned out, the biggest jaguars die and evolution gives you cute little desert kittens that live off rabbits.
vex: mostr of the jaguar report here are from old women who saw a large escaped house cat
adlai: a lone jaguar might be a bit afraid to take down a serious camel, though. maybe lion packs from the savannah are a better idea, they are used to teamwork.
vex: lions aren't no shit
vex: if you live in lion territory, best arrange some thorns around your hut
adlai: there were once desert cats in Israel
vex: do tell
adlai: they are still listed in old wildlife brochures, although they are almost certainly extinct
adlai: spotted like jaguars, although a bit smaller
vex: id much rather be in the savannah, a jungle jaguar can eat you
adlai: oh lol supposedly it's just the regular african cheetah, and the local population simply faded out. they are in no danger of extinction across the border, though!
vex: if they're spotty and eat something else I'm okay with it
adlai: farmers are somewhat worshipped in Israeli society, especially the ones who settled empty desert lands that were basically territory of bedouin nomad tribes before the 20th century... although honestly the early zionist farmers completely fucked the desert ecosystems
adlai: and the ironic thing is that they didn't even make much headway in the vision of turning the desert into fertile ground. they just established towns that eventually became industrial centers and factory farms, rather than changing the soil and climate.
vex: reporposing tired lands.
vex: it's not rocket surgery
vex: china can send a million hoes whever they like. nature of monke was irepresible
adlai: the chinese contractors rule the construction scene here
vex: really? I find that hard to belive
adlai: they might not be as entrenched in organized crime as the mobsters who run the consturction companies, although there are entire construction sites where all the boots on the ground during the day are chinese
vex: I'd prefer a vex style bathroom reno
adlai: one time I saw the funniest evidence of an 'overpopulated' construction site... in the middle of the afternoon, a line of maybe ten guys, tossing bricks from one guy to the next
vex: grout fits in all the craics
adlai: big pile of bricks at one corner of the site, and then a snake of guys tossing the bricks towards the guy at the end who was catching them and handing to the bricklayer
adlai: dudes had huge smiles on their faces and were yelling at eachother in full tonal bro banter
vex: I see no problem
adlai: now, this was not an underfunded construction site. there were probably about $10M of heavy machinery within the same radius as the length of this brick tossing line
adlai: maybe nobody yet built the John Deere or Caterpillar automatic brick layer, so it's cheaper for a dozen guys to toss bricks at eachother
adlai: now, why they did this at two in the afternoon, instead of two AM, I have no idea. it was not in a residential neighborhood where someone would complain, and some of these sites work at night too. maybe they were behind schedule?
vex: right?
vex: boss was off kilter
adlai afk to work on digesting
vex: lsd birds start awaking
vex: wildling
adlai: ttyl!
vex: are you actually in trouble of just larping?
vex: ttyl
vex: I walked into awhole contestarthququake had happnedd\
vex: perhaps pete will sell shulgin as unique
vex: idtkso
vex: dear pete. if you want a huffer. I am ur man
vex: I xcan't vene describe it
vex: how many mathemeticains does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
vex: nigger whagt?
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