a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:24 a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 17:52 BingoBoingo: NO, targeted assasination attempt on a Lord of TMSR
BingoBoingo: I mean cellphone accidents are how the Israeli's get a lot of their cadavers
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 598.53, vol: 6351.89521455 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 595.935, vol: 7775.18034 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 601.55, vol: 37556.61512024 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 604.505825, vol: 166409.00960000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 595.002, vol: 2382.07029961 | Volume-weighted last average: 603.425215709
thestringpuller: it's like every bad thing ever happens in an evil government lab
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:29 pete_dushenski:
https://vimeo.com/101336844 << dunno why anyone would worry about thai succession. crown prince looks like a pimp. wife topless at dinner, 80's pop beats, good times.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:36 pete_dushenski: no surprise to #trilema readers that no economy = no cars = plenty of room for cyclists
mircea_popescu: but economy has nothing to do with it. humongo traffic jams in ba mostly because a) everyone here drives like a confused miami senior citizen. they can't fucking merge.
mircea_popescu: b) poor people spend more on the symbols of "wealth" such as a shitty chinese import than sane people would, as a proportion of their expenditure.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:37 pete_dushenski: bitch, what the fuck are used car parts doing in your mercados ?!
mircea_popescu: work for usg, in any manner, in any capacity ? YOU WILL GET FUCKED.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 00:16 asciilifeform: so i have nfi what kind of imbecile would pay the ransom.
mircea_popescu: fatlogic is part of a larger series on "Socialism-brand Idiocy [I Can't Believe It's Not Stupid], and its consumerist aftermarket effects"
mircea_popescu: can't really get fatlogic without reddit, they're both enmeshed in and the necessary results of the same dumb.
mircea_popescu: as per usual the name of the anglotard game is "you may complain about any part of our retardation provided you import the fundamental principles that guarantee it reproduces itself in all its parts"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 02:27 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512600 << bush girls would get party belligerent at smith point from time to time, main difference was that between bouncers and secret service, there's no way anybody was filming anything and still retained possession of device
covertress: came here today for the fireworks, if any
covertress: ETH btc thinks ETC liberator funds are on the move
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 17:51 mircea_popescu: meanwhile the eth "rednecks" are "acting against their own interest". as per usg verbiage now current.
shinohai: Good lolz you posted earlier re: Tual mircea_popescu
shinohai does not link to log to avoid pissing off his worship danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: iirc the army training is more along the lines of "if your mate looks like he's going to become a prisoner, shoot them"
mircea_popescu: somehow this is a lot more democratic than it sounds. because MODERN no doubt.
gribble: adlai was last seen in #trilema 2 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 48 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <adlai> ask not what your qntra can read to you; ask what you can write for your qntra
gribble: gabriel_laddel was last seen in #trilema 3 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 1 minute, and 7 seconds ago: <gabriel_laddel> wtf else are you going to do?
mircea_popescu: hopkins does probably his best role ~as a man~, to jack nicholson levels. debra winger is utterly superb. perfect performance.
mircea_popescu: i never cared much for the oxford genre fiction of the 50s.
mircea_popescu: yes, this includes tolkien. no, i don't see him as much more than an earlier, therefore craftier, woman what's her name.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that if they are old enough to walk they're old enough to fuck and that's the end of the matter.
mircea_popescu: can't even fucking remember any of this crud it's always the same words in a different souping.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-05 03:04 mircea_popescu: ok, point taken, the guy is good.
mircea_popescu: a bunch of tired oxford fags trying to give their miserable subculture breath in the heavens doesn't make it a sort of byzantine "chrstian faith"
mircea_popescu: it just makes them what thgey always were : invidious barbarians lost in a distant, misty island.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform their characters don't fuck properly. yes, good, as in crafty writer. still has nothing to say besides "god save the queen"
mircea_popescu: which can be said well but isn't worth saying in any case.
mircea_popescu: i can't help it, for all my patience i can't read ANYTHING integrally. some things annoy.
diana_coman: I'm with asciilifeform on this one re Tolkien
diana_coman: don't know where he is on that, but harry potter is a shit from what I saw and no way to compare it to tolkien
mircea_popescu: i for the life of me can't distinguish them, and this is never a good sign.
mircea_popescu also can't normally remember people's names. the people in question flatter themselves with the idea this is a fault of mine.
diana_coman: hm, depending on where you are looking from, nothing can be distinguished from anything else on Earth really
mircea_popescu: so distinguish it for my benefit, should be instructive.
mircea_popescu: yes, but i specifically disclaimed the argument as to craft. yes, the man is a crafty writer, archeologist, etc. put in the work. hard work. intelligently. yes.
mircea_popescu: he comes from a dead culture. a culture which was never interesting to begin with.
mircea_popescu: he is, if you wish a metaphor, in the position of the old scottish lord with a nice big castle and ample fields, sitting alone without offspring, without the possibility of offspring, disinterested in the world, waiting to die.
mircea_popescu: that's english culture, always was, will stay that way.
mircea_popescu: his characters don't fuck properly. read it side to side with, say, the decameron. ALSO an archeologist and whatnot. but one with things to say.
mircea_popescu: so i say "this man never amounted to anything" and you say "but he is rich" and i say "and it doesn't matter"
mircea_popescu: was a brief time in english history they were owned by the french, and it showed.
mircea_popescu: eventually they decided to go with the dutch, and it turns out the dutch weren't anything but hayfire.
mircea_popescu: in any case - this should prove it's not ETHNIC allergy.
diana_coman: asciilifeform was faster than me on tolkien; it sounds to me that mircea_popescu's objection to Tolkien is that he did not tackle the right problem(s)
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 15:30 mircea_popescu: iirc the army training is more along the lines of "if your mate looks like he's going to become a prisoner, shoot them"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman not merely. but that he never tackled any problems.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform (the french point, for ease of following : at the time james was king. the king of scotland. scotland was, throughout, and recognised at the time, a french outpost in the islands. shakespeare's own henry says as much.)
mircea_popescu: i have read the book. to my standard of reading a book, which does include throw it away on its own merits.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, sounds more like "after reading result of grep -r "fuck" :D
mircea_popescu: otherwise this position is much like "but teach, you can't score me on my program UNTIL IT FINISHES COMPILING!!1"
mircea_popescu: adlai does it sound to you more alike "democratic" or more alike "national socialistiche" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not what was said ; also review the compiler point above.
phf: i thought the objection was, not enough fucking
mircea_popescu: one doesn't get out of literary criticism just by writing A LOT of crud people can't be bothered to read through.
mircea_popescu: someone shjould ask him what ever happened to those 10 btc he broke blockchain.info to trace
BingoBoingo: I remember the 10 BTC at the time which traded for ~$50
mircea_popescu: hey, it was a meal. a man without a meal is liable to do shocking things for the $50.
phf: tolkien is not literature though, it's more like an oxford style set of artifacts (epics, linguistic analysis, chronicles, etc.). the interesting part of tolkien is that he invented a universe and described it through same set of tools he would describe historical past. the sex part is on point, because stodgy british professor, he views his imaginary world through same dodgy prism he views historical past.
BingoBoingo: VERified is an American it is 20 happy meals
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, thing is that what people can or cannot be bothered to read has to do with them, not with what is written really; so it's kind of circular: he writes "crud" because I can't be bothered to read it
mircea_popescu: phf no argument there. he can be the president of the oxford medieval reenaction society and organise medieval faires. i'd go, with the chicks topless, they'd kick me out, all nice and good.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman this is not true, for i am not people. i am a scholar, and when i spit an error the problem's the code not the compiler.
mircea_popescu: you think what gcc can and can't be bothered to read has to do with bugs in gcc ?
diana_coman: thing is: if you give gcc some python code, it won't be bothered to read it
mircea_popescu: that's where the simile breaks down, i even read arabic.
mircea_popescu: ~obviously~ you could translate, if that were the matter, "oh they brought him tolkien in islandic and he doesn't read that"
diana_coman: so basically that's what you are asking for: translate tolkien for me so that I can see what is worth in there for in the current language I can't see it
mircea_popescu: i said, actually, bring out a class, a function, a fucking data type, ANYTHING, that'd show this kid can program.
mircea_popescu: and phf did the mnost that can earnestly be done, above.
mircea_popescu: granted the attendance is not much trained in this weird arcana, so we'll not dispose the matter on the spot. but still, worth thinking of. a book's a mechanism, like any other, not some sort of magical artefact.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is generally indicative of subject matter without object point.
mircea_popescu: if it's famous it gets "famous" translator, who's a writer ratee, who then fills the corpse with his own crabs. gives appearance of life, movement at least.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is it that english doesn't EVEN HAVE the word that describes its literature, ie, a rata, ratare ?
diana_coman: I don't follow where the magical artefact came from; fwiw I fully agree that a book's a mechanism, true; I still can't fully grasp where you say this particular mechanism is broken/not even one ; I'll go through the old threads again, maybe I get it
phf: well, tolkien ~is~ a construction set, but that's its whole point, it's just a very elaborate construction set.
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with this, EXCEPT it comes with instructions, and the instructions include "how to castrate yourself with your new lego set"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman was mostly directed at teh boys, who never read literary criticism in their lyf.
mircea_popescu: phf allow me to quote to you from modern tolkien : "The heir apparent, Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, is poorly regarded in Thailand and the succession has clouded the brows of not only the Thai political elite, but the Thai people, who believe a period of substantial instability will follow the King's death"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nothing wrong with this, EXCEPT it comes with instructions, and the instructions include "how to castrate yourself with your new lego set" << This does seem like Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling et al. Pretty much made to turn people into apies with "worlds where people are special but fucking doesn't exist"
mircea_popescu: this, because idiots perceived a man with a naked woman on her knees.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is upon you to bring the exception, rather than complain of the form of the universal.
mircea_popescu: believe it or not, there's nothing substantially wrong with the statement "no prime number is even"
mircea_popescu: if you disbelieve this, go, bring the prime number that's even.
BingoBoingo: Seriously fucking midgets with hairy feet are special, because their boring makes then determined?
diana_coman: uhm, what worlds where people are special BingoBoingo ? as far as I know Tolkien's point was quite the opposite of this really
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: What, wizards don't get to count?
BingoBoingo: Sauron seems like Tolkien wrote him pretty special.
mircea_popescu: maybe you do or maybe you don't knbow the kitsch victorian xtianity that yielded the special midgets.
mircea_popescu: if you don't, it may seem neutral. it isn't neutral, not anymore than the glass fish on the milieu.
diana_coman: what point? that hobbits were special? they are meant to be exactly not-special, that's why I suspect BingoBoingo perceives them as boring in the first place
BingoBoingo: Why did the midgets alternately love/despise gandalf with no middle ground if he wasn't special.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wouldjha stop trolling them this is 101 class go to 205 and bother the twentysomethings!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you know that medieval "for lack of a nail" thing ?
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> exactly because they are not special << And then they take a shit on national borders et al. Reading this sort of immersive universe is exactly how awkward teens become bornies/aspies/et al because they can wait for Gandalf to make them different and interesting.
mircea_popescu: (no, not ah, aj, it's not a misspelling, it just looks like one.)
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, I think that teens who want to wait for someone to make them special will find something to justify it
diana_coman: other than that I don't see any link to either immersive universes or Gandalf or Tolkien or whatever else
diana_coman: now you are basically in the camp of hysterical wives with "violence in video games makes kids murderers"
BingoBoingo: Nah violence in video games makes kids fat sacks of safety
diana_coman: well, as long as it "makes" them, it's the same thing
phf: i think it's the "computers for professionals" thread all over again.
BingoBoingo: Cultural obesity is a thing. If one gorges on Disney without exercising their culture in the real world, they become morbidly something.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, absolutely; I can't compute it atm at all, not even enough to spit out something meaningful on it
phf: but the message seems to be, don't eat this it's bad for you. BingoBoingo grew up with fat people who don't know how to cook and only eat at mcdonalds. i grew up with moscows girls who all know how to cook, and for them stopping by a mcdonalds for a milkshake was sort of a thing
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, pure and proper obesity is a thing; if one gorges on butter only without exercising/doing anything/actually cooking with it, they become morbidly something; how is that the fault of butter now though?
BingoBoingo: phf: More, don't eat only this and for the love of god go out into the world occasionally and test it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It is the manifestation of the Obeast's character defects amplified by their access to butter.
BingoBoingo: But everything to do with their accesss to it!
mircea_popescu: the message isn't don't eat this it's bad for you. wqhether something is good or bad is no direct relation of whether you should like it or not. if you like it, like it, and if you will sin go sin. come back when you've sinned enough.
diana_coman: keep aspies away from tolkien you say? so keep them, whatevs
mircea_popescu: just don't go around thinking / saying that "there's nothing outside of sin"
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, "there's no errect penis in tolkien's book" - is this a correct description of the main fault you find?
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the notion that tolkien is a writer is not unlike the notion that roger alexander of the us civil war reenactment society is A CIVIL WAR HERO.
mircea_popescu: there's no erect penis in romeo & juliet either, see above.
diana_coman: well, fwiw tolkien as far as I know did NOT consider himself a writer
mircea_popescu: this activity, not just "tolkien" but generally "reading", is very much subverted in the anglotard world. have yo useen this, whole carloads of white, quiet, mousy people "reading a book" on their commute.
phf: i don't think even tolkien fans think of tolkien as a writer, that's why him and his brood get own section at a bookstore
mircea_popescu: phf much like "solo" gets its own section at the pron store.
mircea_popescu: it's for people who don't like seeing peni, like alf here present :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah obv. that was back before the jobs return.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> this activity, not just "tolkien" but generally "reading", is very much subverted in the anglotard world. have yo useen this, whole carloads of white, quiet, mousy people "reading a book" on their commute <- actually I saw this in FRANCE
mircea_popescu: france is part and parcel of anglotard world these days.
mircea_popescu: except if you go to i dunno, farm in normandy or w/e. certainly no paris in paris.
diana_coman: uhm, what is not part? (it was pretty much all the way from Paris to Lyon at least)
mircea_popescu: by now the only places left outside are left outside because too dumb to qualify for anglotardation, such as argentina.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's not to be surprising. if one day you decide to pump the septic tank into the house, the only things still standing will be still standing because lower density than the shit, and so float, not other reason.
mircea_popescu: what doth surprise me however, diana_coman , is that the allergy i presume in you for the works of "socialist realism" does not somehow extend to... this here OTHER, exactly the same, socialist realism.
mircea_popescu: what ever happened to make tolkien more acceptable than sadoveanu ?
mircea_popescu: i even loved him as a kid, and thought it great fiction. just don't seem to summon the interest these days.
diana_coman: hm, funnily enough I did love Sadoveanu as a kid but got over it somewhere in the teens
diana_coman: Tolkien made his universe as a place to experiment with his language; I can fully see and agree with the point that it is "not real life" - I read him very late and therefore I knew this already, I never for a second considered it as "real life" or reflection of it or whatever; I guess that's where the whole thing comes from
mircea_popescu: it is not literature, but copywriting. reading him can be interesting, like reading an instruction manual for any artefact can be interesting. i do it sometimes for "no reason" even.
diana_coman: but how does that make him crud I don't get
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, tolkien is therefore part of english CIVILISATION. he is an artefact. he is pointedly NOT part of culture.
mircea_popescu: this passes unnoticed in english because no culture anyway.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you familiar with bouvard & pecuchet, the dicitonary readers ?
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear the anglos even have a "life plan" that includes anything besides "how to be mme bovary's husband BUT AVOID the whole legbox incident & fallout thereof."
mircea_popescu: "somewhere in the teens". ie, "when i disbecame a child".
diana_coman: maybe; guess I need to revisit bouvard&pecuchet
diana_coman: uhm, he wasn't; didn't even write it for that
diana_coman: in these terms you would rank harry potter higher then
diana_coman: if it is copywriting hence the point is to get paid for the length, she did better by a wide margin , no?
mircea_popescu: look, a woman's still a whore if she gets married to some loser and keeps doing it.
diana_coman: if it's not "real life" it's not literature, but copywriting; is this it?
mircea_popescu: not quite. consider : "what would you call bullshit science ?" "anything that comes from a grant application".
mircea_popescu: this doesn't make crackpots somehow inherit the empire of proper science, through the absenteism of everyhone else.
diana_coman: hm; so far we established we agree (and apparently this wasn't in fact disputed although it seemed so) that tolkien's writing is not reflecting "real life" nor intended to really; this makes it crud in your view I gather
mircea_popescu: the reason i don't watch "Star wars" or "sex and the city" ; nor bother with "lords of the rings" or "jezebel" is exactly the same reason i don't go around sex stores to sniff used condoms and napkins from the bin in their video booths, like isabelle huppert's character in the piano teacher : i am not quite that hungry.
mircea_popescu: i can understand others can be, and have no beef with it. and i don't necessarily even pity the situation, a test's a test.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so once its head rolls i'll take it off.
BingoBoingo: My opinion of JK Rowling increased over the weekend when I learned that she released the new Harry Potter story as a printed play. A++ Trolling.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo in another twenty years they'll catch up with the "book for practical activities of making puippets and imagining scenes", ie 1970s ro standard
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously. In the interim the butthurt is a lot of win.
BingoBoingo: The people who deep inside wanted another novel to take them away from IRL for a while.
mircea_popescu: but but whay! it's more cultural this way! like a play!
phf: mircea_popescu: what about stevenson, doyle, dumas, kipling, they also all fall into that category?
diana_coman: I'll add only the message that considered to be "what Tolkien had to say" (even though he did it through "not-real-life universe") namely that all and everyone (yeah, the ordinary and no, they are not made anything by gandalf quite pointedly not made anything by him) is in some way responsible /called to do something when shit hits the fan; that is all I guess
mircea_popescu: doyle and dumas fo sho. kipling maybe, it's somewhat iffier.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, those people have loads of things for that purpose; will move onto something else fast enough
phf: hehe, i don't care about dickens :>
mircea_popescu: diana_coman methinks you just explained what you asked of me.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Well butthurt does tend to fade. If it persists longer than two weeks they have to see a doctor
mircea_popescu: phf i couldn't tell you re stevenson. the only scott i ever read was shaw. anmd shaw is not in this.
mircea_popescu: re kipling, because this just came up in mp household : girly read his story, you know the one. the spooky one, with the people in the pit.
mircea_popescu: she asked me if i ever read it, and i said oh god that thing was spooky.
mircea_popescu: and then she finished it. and was nonplussed by the end, much like... everyone ever.
BingoBoingo: "Murder the Jungle before Jungle Murders US!!!!"
phf: so is it purely when i became a man, i put the ways of childhood behind me, or you're saying there's something specific to tolkien that turns his fans into castrati?
mircea_popescu: i do not say any such thing. i say he is a competent smith, running as best he can a convenience shop, which for whatever reason is blessed with a wall where every jay and silent bob in the county is attracted to rest, and rap, and what they do.
mircea_popescu: baudelaire, toulouse-lautrec and five others fucked the same one whore. this blessed woman made toulouse-lautrec a writer, baudelaire a painter, and five others nothing ?
mircea_popescu: when i was a child i wore blue, and diana_coman wore pink. thanks god they didn't mix up the colors, lest i'd have grown tits ?
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, woman shouldn't wear pink ? what if she's bonbon blonde ?
mircea_popescu: literally, the only point problems start, is when jay goes into shop and wants to buy an ipad because he thinks this is the only shop and therefore must be that apple concept store he's heard about.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 16:40 asciilifeform: ^ more or less complete picture of typical d.c. train ^
hanbot: <phf> mircea_popescu: what about stevenson, doyle, dumas, kipling, they also all fall into that category? << and what of verne & carroll?
mircea_popescu: (showing that it's not the air or water of oxford magically doing it, or somesuch. much like it's not the ethnic group per se.)
phf: hanbot: pretty sure can also add jack london, but not mark twain
mircea_popescu: mark twain being the best example as far as trouble goes - by "rights" you should add him, and yet he doesn't belong, at all.
mircea_popescu: yet the nigger plays enough womanhood to qualify the whole thing. nuts, huh.
hanbot: well there's an interesting cleavage. it's probably a stretch but i might suggest that tolkein's bit with gollum shares the sensual/sexual/at any rate internal-and-external, physical change via subjugation of self that appears in say alice's "eat me" wafers, if that does anything for you mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: that he buries it under 5000 pages doesn't help. much of carroll's... lightiness, to call faggotry thus for now, is excused on the grounds of brevity.
mircea_popescu: (and yes, faggotry is not merely sexuality, ie, homosexuality. it is also a certain sort of ineptitude. the man who stutters when addressing a woman is not merely short of the simple "strip" indication ; but actually a faggot by this measure.)
mircea_popescu: one of the shortest trilema articles, and tbh getting tedious about midway.
mircea_popescu: but, a blog differs from "a body of literary work" in this sense, that it's much more extensive. a blog is "all the literature i could write", a middle ground between "i did" and "i could have".
hanbot: sure. and no, i don't think tolkien had much mastery of economy of words (somehow this'd seem to make him less a copywriter? or maybe merely a more monstrous one).
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 16:18 mircea_popescu: diana_coman you know that medieval "for lack of a nail" thing ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 17:20 diana_coman: I'll add only the message that considered to be "what Tolkien had to say" (even though he did it through "not-real-life universe") namely that all and everyone (yeah, the ordinary and no, they are not made anything by gandalf quite pointedly not made anything by him) is in some way responsible /called to do something when shit hits the fan; that is all I guess
mircea_popescu: but that's light, the humour of a well fed mob. you recall the scene of the poor italian child with a bedridden mother and numerous siblings living in a hole, jumping to his death ? much more on point.
mircea_popescu: which is why italian realism IS realism ; whereas ingsoc realism is just another sovietism, ie nonsense.
mircea_popescu: hanbot it's a problem deeper than mere "economy of words".
mircea_popescu: it's the fundamental core of all bad literature, "what if the rules didn't apply". good literature is the work of "what if the rules applied differently", never a case of "let's all pretend britannia rules the seas."
hanbot: yeah, i'm not sure i can specifically place this unapplication of rules, emplacement of britannia ruling the seas in the actual work
mircea_popescu: hanbot why would you place ~it in the actual work~ when it's a response to a meta-discussion you started with " i don't think tolkien had much mastery of economy of words" ?
mircea_popescu: we're talking of tolkien and hgis masteries. that he THINKS it's ok to disregard the brevity rule does not make it go away.
mircea_popescu: the thing flew "look, this thing almost like in carroll is in tolkien" "yes but here's deluged in crap" "oh, well this guy deluges things in crap" "that he does or that he doesn't has no bearing on crap and deluging."
hanbot: right. well so, apparently i have no argument lol
mircea_popescu: as i said, we're not about to dispose of this matter here and now anywayz.
hanbot: scandalous how much bad literature there is by this tolkien token then!
mircea_popescu: huxley said the same thing. to his misfortune, he chose to die the day they killed kennedy, and so...
hanbot: mircea_popescu wow wtf.
mircea_popescu: this might be the first html document that starts with a </style> tag.
mircea_popescu: hanbot i was referencing this with the baudelaire and whore story. but then again... absolutely nobody would have guessed as much, i figure, amirite.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 04:46 BingoBoingo: Anyone else smell blood?
BingoBoingo: Fuck, lingering in this channel and its predecessor since 2013 has really attuned my ability to smell death even with my pack a day cigarette habit
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty, thing we discussed is nearing publication
diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1513051 - it seems to me that you are taking what I said to mean what you meant; called to do something and responsible in some way does not mean everybody is the same/has same effect or some other such nonsense; the peasant in the hut won't save the world no matter what they do, but this doesn't mean they should do nothing/whatever; similarly, the same peasant may not have "done bad" but this
diana_coman: doesn't mean they have no responsibility for the current shit in the world
diana_coman: as to length that indeed I can agree it is a big fault of tolkien - at times he rambles because apparently he's just too much in love with the landscape basically
diana_coman: I find it actually quite interesting that it's perceived as saying "britain the isolated , small, insignifiant by now island actually matters/is mighty/hero/whatevs" when I read it quite the opposite: as long as they are happy in their own world, they don't matter/contribute nothing/and if they are not interested in the world, the world at some point will be interested in them - and with a big stick at that
phf: asciilifeform: luddism point is aligned with what mircea_popescu is saying, so nobody's really interested in shooting own foot :>
mircea_popescu: really, byzantine fiction (currently known as the vulgate) is much better. but i don't think much more of the people who regard the bible as "great writing" than of the tolkien fans.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 576.67, vol: 8326.09899249 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 577.093, vol: 9504.19206 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 585.834795, vol: 155877.42810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 578.91, vol: 3586.75787395 | Volume-weighted last average: 584.795686196
gribble: Current Blocks: 423360 | Current Difficulty: 2.0189321085305896E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 425375 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 20 hours, 1 minute, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is how it works, now it can be theirs, so.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck does archive.is shot of bitfines come out blank o.O
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "they sunk instead of swam" << swimming. or alternatively, "instead of swan" i guess.
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> really, byzantine fiction (currently known as the vulgate) is much better. but i don't think much more of the people who regard the bible as "great writing" than of the tolkien fans. <- fans, lol; out of curiosity: an example as to "much better"?
mircea_popescu: yes fans. every generation has its thing, orwell tells the story of their infatuation with "a shrophsire lad" (which, for maximal lulz, is actually referenced in, say, a room with a view - old hag actually attempts to discuss florence in terms of a sort of shropshire.)
phf: if jrrt was just saying "happy in their own world", there probably wouldn't be a story. he makes a point that shire values are best values all throughout the books. gandalf does all kinds of scheming in order to ensure that it's hobbits specifically that participate in the quests, rather than random guy from the street, and it's the kind of values jerome k jerome was making fun of that somehow make hobbits particularly fit for task
mircea_popescu: diana_coman take the story of the whore who wanted to fuck the patriarch. it's a fine story.
mircea_popescu: phf jkj particularly useful reference here ; and yes quite so.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman finer, i will wager, than anything to be found in the 50k lop (lines of pablum) here under consideration.
mircea_popescu: and no, you can't have a story of arbitrary length ; anything longer than a novel becomes a sludge of separate stories whether you want to or not.
diana_coman: phf, fit for some tasks, not for all tasks, no?
mircea_popescu: the only reason they're not the best vacuum cleaner door to door salesmen is that selling vacuum cleaners door to door isn't all that great.
BingoBoingo: Well, they need to door to door things that make sense sold that way like gutters.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hm, as far as I recall they are not great fighters at all for one thing
thestringpuller: any reason for the spike in diverse authors? continuing the trend would be cool.
diana_coman: uhm, what, the dwarfs are now bad in there? (I am all open to seeing this in any other way - I did not grow up with it or something of the kind - but I can't say I see this in there at all)
phf: diana_coman: perfectly fit for proper and good life as defined by tolkien, somehow magically fit for all the necessary tasks of the quest. even fighting, like pippin and merry after they are split from fellowship. they are literally only unfit for things that are bad, and even there frodo eventually at the last moment gets corrupted, Let That Be A Warning To You All
shinohai: lol asciilifeform "Peace in our ctime();"
phf: i think that if you approach jrrt as literature and worse start applying literary analysis to it, then mircea_popescu wins in the first round. if you start looking for life lessons and values in jrrt books it's a lot of really dodgy shit
diana_coman: phf, in that case basically mircea_popescu has a point anyway and there isn't anywhere to go otherwise; I read it to mean what I said above (so no, not the best etc) - maybe I was just so tolerant as to miss the bullshit entirely
diana_coman: what can I say: it wouldn't even be the first time I saw someone as the best version they could be rather than what they actually really were
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 566.0, vol: 9967.39642678 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 573.661, vol: 10655.80966 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 579.476144, vol: 164602.26320000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 562.64, vol: 4096.36899115 | Volume-weighted last average: 578.075068468
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
boolcrap: my speech is limited just like in amerikka
boolcrap: im actually going to recover it today when i install my new motherboard
boolcrap: hopefully this one doesnt croak when i turn VTx on
boolcrap: i hope to actually dig up something amazing from the garden
boolcrap: like a box of gold coins burried in 1740
BingoBoingo: boolcrap: Maybe you dig up 5 pound sweet potato? Such things have happened before.
boolcrap: i dug up a 1lb potato that was my biggest
BingoBoingo: Ah. The five pounder happened on the year of a single sweet potato
BingoBoingo: Thing covered thanksgiving and christmas all by itself
mircea_popescu: and there was a quarter mile traffic jam caused by... senor flocop parking.
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: privkeytones voiced for 30 minutes.
privkeytones: I can only reach it intermittently for some reason, seems the DNS address cannot be found..
ben_vulpes: hoho you actually sliced yourself, eh?
trinque: BingoBoingo: not the prefered nomenclature!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: semi-relatedly, kiddo sliced his hands open on the radiator fins of an airconditioner i had lying foolishly within reach
trinque checks to see if I stopped the thing when working with mod6
ben_vulpes: child never noticed. lady, though, did rather quickly, once the bright red started getting on rugs and the baby.
ben_vulpes: and that was the day i won the great Battle of Cyanoacrylate
ben_vulpes: imagine how pointless it is to attempt to band-aid a 9-month old's fingers.
ben_vulpes: two weeks later, cuts herself open on something else, "hey where's the superglue?"
ben_vulpes: "in my bike bag. don't forget to antibiotic before applying the glue."
deedbot: finlol voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 20:57 boolcrap: like a box of gold coins burried in 1740
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-02 04:39 asciilifeform: with 'why japanese toilets did not catch on in america!'
mircea_popescu: right. i thought it happened again, woulda been almost trollage.
gribble: Error: "lastblock" is not a valid command.
gribble: [17:56:55] <mircea_popescu> ;;lastblock
gribble: Time since last block: 2 minutes and 50 seconds
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 550.4, vol: 12272.82816775 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 552.644, vol: 12132.81198 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 573.267321, vol: 180679.04120000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 554.598, vol: 4940.77120382 | Volume-weighted last average: 570.300507152
deedbot: Reydev voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: "Ads are being blocked. For us to continue writing great stories, we need to display ads." <<< guess this is why Qntra can't produce great stories.
mircea_popescu: shinohai it's a toss-up whether it can't produce great stories because no ads or because being mean.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aspie 14% needn't be paid. wonder instead how he hopes&dreams.
trinque: mircea_popescu │ ah sweet it puts the deed bundles in here now ? << sho nuff
mircea_popescu: there's a quanta of energy, a token of friendship and a tolkien of usg.aspie h&d.
mircea_popescu: Adevărat „copil al secolului” Vladimir Maiakovski este poetul care „a săvârșit una dintre cele mai mari revoluții literare cunoscute de istoria literaturii universale.” << sez ro.shittypedia, so must be tru.
mircea_popescu: oh, i forgot in that enumeration : the tsyan, intelligence measure. named for the... militsyan
mircea_popescu: and note that naming the tolkien for tolkien isn't blaming him for the gulag. merely recognising his intricacy in the civilisation-masquerading-as-a-culture that spawned him.
mircea_popescu: you know, like measuring skin tone by the obama. what, he made melanin ?
mircea_popescu: an orwell of bedwetting is defined as that quantity of bedwetting sufficient to give a wilde of a woman a single white hair.
mircea_popescu: but he's that measure that doesn't dare speak its name.
phf: i dunno, i think you can blame mayakovsky for gulags
shinohai: Supposed tally of Buttfinex hack: 119,756 BTC
mircea_popescu: hey, if they can name a school/street/urinal a pushkin, what's to keep them from naming a gulag v maiakovski
phf: he was really good at playing working class revolutionary, in the old tradition of "going native", just look at him
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3385/3635935907_817fa1e408.jpg. his whole style is that of мужицкий топор and he used his refined ear to play it very nicely, found it very surprising when the топор just kept chopping on its own
mircea_popescu: hatchet in romanian, yeah. except there's also "om din topor" ie "man of the hatchet", which just means a crude fellow.
shinohai: Oh wait that's the Director of Community and Product Development for Bitfinex.
phf: mircea_popescu: "рубить", "топор" has a very nice sound to it in russian, which is that of something crude, rough, but also to the point. can string a few of those together with a lot of breaks and pauses to get a feeling of "honest" crudeness or somesuch
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 527.31, vol: 14382.99936634 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 523.67, vol: 14666.60693 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 541.720348, vol: 191378.27510000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 529.506, vol: 5492.57683242 | Volume-weighted last average: 539.334155823
mircea_popescu: shinohai best remember to mention that these are the bitcoins they claimed to have but at never point throughout the run ever actually held.
mircea_popescu: it's not unlikely hong kong announcing today someone hacked their geography made off with mainland china.
shinohai: Well they *were* in p2sh addresses
BingoBoingo: Forgot the forgettable but obligatory diff change piece
mircea_popescu: "insurance that never existed doesn't cover loss of funds we never had"
shinohai: More lulz: "There were a number of security practices that were in place to make this the most secure, yet transparent way of securing funds and we used the company that prides itself and specializes in bitcoin storage. How these practices were bypassed, we're still investigating."
shinohai: ;;later tell thestringpuller How 'bout that steem vs. ETC chart
shinohai: I read that sign as "Spammed Travel" mircea_popescu
shinohai: Also, I think I'd use doorknob and string before visiting a dentist in that building.
mircea_popescu: he's not getting out of it no fucking matter what posturing scheme he adopts.
phf: выходит маяковский из кабака, окруженный стайкой девиц. девицы начинают его охаживать: — владимир! а это правда, что вы можете сочинить стихотворение прямо с ходу, на месте? — конечно! — говорит подвыпивший поэт революции, — давайте тему! — ну, вот видите
phf: идешь с блядями и иди! маяковский: — пойдемте, девушки, это есенин.
phf: more like "never mind, ladies, it's bernard"
gribble: Current Blocks: 423397 | Current Difficulty: 2.0189321085305896E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 425375 | Next Difficulty In: 1978 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 22 hours, 16 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 535.16, vol: 22232.29056002 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 540.09, vol: 21716.04224 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 533.661596, vol: 211301.67240000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 533.625, vol: 7909.1321435 | Volume-weighted last average: 534.317560315
mod6: Peace in our ctime(); << i lul'd
mod6: "just imagine that these things don't exist. see, all better now!"
mod6: bad news? no problem.
mod6 puts fingers in ears.
mod6: lalalalalalalalalala
mircea_popescu: this is shaping up to being a pretty great autumn really.
mircea_popescu: incidentally BingoBoingo : it ~would~ be fair to say that the bitfinex failure as presented by bitfinex amounts exactly to a major failure of the dao as meagrely implemented in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform honestly i don't comprehend why you entertain the tards above and beyond "honey, close your eyes and think of the empire", but each his own i guess.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares what nobody on a stick's idea of anything is.
mircea_popescu: i guess what i'm saying is that i admire your patience.
ben_vulpes: so what actually happened with the multisig shits?
phf: i'm writing subs for girl, because official english translation is awful
phf: yeah, put that blog of mine to some use
deedbot: smef voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: so i finally got around to watching that thai prince orgy video thing.
mircea_popescu: holy shit these idiots! ITS A TOPLESS WOMAN AT A POOL PARTY!
mircea_popescu: the woman i sat down to watch it with was ALL NUDE! who the fuck cares omfg the tamest stht ever
mircea_popescu: and to add insult to injury they do all sort of complicated ceremonial futzing around some catered looking cake prior to singing HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
mircea_popescu: do these idiots not have a language or what the fuck is their problem already.
mircea_popescu: iirc ro upper crust still sings o tannenbaum at teh tree
phf: 40 seconds in, i switched from watching that video to watching an old soviet cartoon..
mircea_popescu: anyway, if my dungeon videos ever leak there's going to be a ~100mn or so new cases of apoplexy that year ?
phf: pretty much definition of "op didn't deliver"
deedbot: jodym voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: it's ugh the Alaskan yellow bear
shinohai: mircea_popescu: maybe they use the same metrics counter as twitter does.
gribble: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "-!-!" is not a valid command.
phf: !go-home-gribble-you're-drunk
gribble: Error: "go-home-gribble-you're-drunk" is not a valid command.
shinohai: Buttstamp: "We would like to reassure all customers that Bitstamp's implementation of multisig is fundamentally different from the one at Bitfinex"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somehow rape's always followed by asking for seconds.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> incidentally BingoBoingo : it ~would~ be fair to say that the bitfinex failure as presented by bitfinex amounts exactly to a major failure of the dao as meagrely implemented in bitcoin. << Indeed, as presented
mircea_popescu: how about "if you lack the authority to detain people indefinitely THEREFORE you lack the authority to engage in any behaviour that may lead to it, including trying to prosecute this nonsense"
mircea_popescu: somehow a plain reading is never within the purview of militant idiocy.
mircea_popescu: alternatively simply is not invited, can go on about his nonsense in his mom's basement while that lasts.
mircea_popescu: any time this "hitler" grows a pair, he can come over and we can have a chat.
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you, until and unless kid is actually visible in the world nobody can interact with him,
mircea_popescu: i thought back when it was voat.co reddit mostly did kiddie porn.
mircea_popescu: btw : the muslims actually do the whole chain thing. point in case : "Nabil Received five Ijazas/certificate from several respected scholars in Egypt. He has an Ijaza with an authentic, short chain of 26 from him to our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings Be upon Him)."
deedbot: forgotmypw voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Their cocks like their wiretaps require their toilet grabber
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform two points here being that a) the "global dragnet" is much more difficult to use than you imagine ; and much less productive, being more of a prestige item than a tool of any sort ; b) they're discussing a specific item. if i ask you how many stovetops you have in your house you wouldn't count the roof, notwithstanding the sun heating it is, energetically, more significant.
mircea_popescu: also missing, the great american novel. as well as a dictionary of the french language.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the curious amateur historian may be well served by a review of the 2nd anglo-dutch war. some underlined parts : the anglos were deeply overextended politically - their crummy country consisting of one single town and a bunch of retarded peasants ; while the republic had many more merchants, with lots more money. in practice this meant that the english could pay for one ship where the dutch could afford seven ;
mircea_popescu: but obviously the english ordered ships they couldn't possibly pay for and called this "a cash problem". to be resolved by privateers - except the dutch privateers were both better and more productive.
mircea_popescu: then they induced the bishop of munster, a sort of medieval thug, to invade the republic, under promise of "large subsidies". those subsidies never materialized, being promised by the broke-ass anglos as they were ; brandenburg moved in from the east and the naive turk uh i mean bishop of munster was forced to a rather disfavourable peace for his trouble / idiotic naivity.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile charles keep trying to make peaces with the republic, by offering vague nothings.
mircea_popescu: but they also drew up plans for overthrowing the republic's government, in a very muchly amusing color revolution (the future english king was to come from the house of Orange, you realise!)
mircea_popescu: they were ~accidentally~ supplied to de witt in a pile of other documents. which resulted in some beheadings.
mircea_popescu: altogether a funny thing, especially in the sense that these idiots learned ~nothing in five centuries.
deedbot: fabio__ voiced for 30 minutes.
fabio__: number one on the faq has a bit saying replacing RSA with ECC is not a good idea:
fabio__: "Part of their efforts is the push towards Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) to replace RSA, in spite of obvious mathematical weaknesses in this proposition.
fabio__: There has been quite a bit of noise about ECC NIST curves (nistp256, nistp384, nistp521) being tampered with by the NSA. I thought using ECC was all good if you don't use the NIST curves and instead use community approved curves like Curve25519 and Curve1174 by like DJB and friends, or other approved ones at
https://safecurves.cr.yp.to/.
fabio__: So what does the nsl faq mean, are the obvious mathematical weaknesses the NIST curves or some other issue with ECC as compared to RSA?
mircea_popescu: ethereum forked by "agreement of the community", does the result satisfy your expectations, for instance ?
mircea_popescu: the republic doesn't, nor does any lord that i know of, recommend using ecc in any serious capacity. that's the community. otherwise, if you wish to say "i trust djb and whatever he says i'll take" this is fine, but it's a matter of personal investment not "community" nonsense.
fabio__: ok, I didn't realise there was not a consensus.
mircea_popescu: be wary of consensi generally, for it rarely is more than a device in late night tv commercials.
fabio__: people are rolling it out, openssh has supported it since 2014 i think. one of the openssl devs was asking for code to merge
mircea_popescu: openssh is a scandalous piece of trojan work, on the other hand.
deedbot: forgotmypw voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> openssh is a scandalous piece of trojan work, on the other hand. << OpenSSL is, OpenSSH is collateral damage
mircea_popescu: they support anything and everything but sound cryptography, proper rng etc.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hey, somehow they didn't miss out implementing utf, they just neglected to check their crypto code. great set of priorities there.
BingoBoingo: WHo could tell over the noise, twas a voice vote!
fabio__: so in reference to #1 is DJB questionable?
BingoBoingo: But until he registers a key and bros out here questionable in his respectability as he lacks a declaration of allegiance.
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
fabio__: and in reference to #2 the point of contention is equivalent strength with RSA for a given bitlength?
mircea_popescu: fabio__ you don't specifically know whether and which curves may be surprisingly weak. community consensus can't fix this.
mircea_popescu: in general when dealing with snake oil, and cryptography currently is indistinguishable from such, is to take the simplest form.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing simpler than rsa ; ecc certainly doesn't meet that qual.
fabio__: so ECC is new and still unproven, wereas RSA is well understood and a safer bet
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 17:42 asciilifeform: and point of thread was 'no one has shown with any degree of rigour whatsoever, ~how~ hard'
mircea_popescu: the ycombinator derps on the other hand have ~nothing to lose.
mircea_popescu: you were here when tiny boo boo exploded into gawker bankruptcy followed by nick denton personal bankruptcy soonish to be followed by actual imprisonment over lying to judges etc ?
mircea_popescu: the exact same thing COULD happen to bob sauerberg. tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: unlike bob, nobody on a stick and sam altman own nothing, and have nothing to lose. they sleep in ~prison / airbnb as it is.
deedbot: fabio__ voiced for 30 minutes.
fabio__: so one final question, at what point would you guys consider ECC to be useable? 5 years of field with no reported issues?
fabio__: well, thanks for talking the time to answer my questions