Results 1 ... 102 found in asciilifeform for 'vtron'
billymg: afaik same group happy to use keybase, protonmail, etc., sure, but imo they're the target demographic for vtrons and pestrc networks
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-11 22:29:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-11#1057520 << how'bout marketing also for vtron and FG, lol
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-11#1057520 << how'bout marketing also for vtron and FG, lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-09 13:41:05 asciilifeform: asciilifeform has two uses for ffa -- general-purpose sign/verify suitable for use w/ generalized vtron ; and for the ecdsa numerics in ada trb replacement.
asciilifeform: for thinking folx, the correct model is imho -- get the foundations right, then combine -- e.g. with pgp, basic vtron is possible; with ffa, generalized vtron, ab initio trb, etc possible
asciilifeform: there aint 'world' using e.g. vtron, either. it doesn't make it stop working somehow.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform has two uses for ffa -- general-purpose sign/verify suitable for use w/ generalized vtron ; and for the ecdsa numerics in ada trb replacement.
asciilifeform: cgra: also would like to have a replacement for 'litmus' (gpg compatibility program, for use with e.g. vtron) that doesn't rely on bash kludge.
asciilifeform: relatedly, imho a sane scripting lang oughta be able to 'include' coad vtronically.
asciilifeform recalls the wankage from '20 w/ mp et al, 'bastard planted us on python! let's rewrite vtron, logger, ..., in sh...'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-04 12:36:06 billymg: signpost: overall really cool, and i'm happy now that i finally have a vtron on this box
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-04 12:19:19 billymg: so now i have a working vtron on the host box
billymg: signpost: overall really cool, and i'm happy now that i finally have a vtron on this box
billymg: so now i have a working vtron on the host box
asciilifeform: signpost: seems like oughta be generalizable into vtron
asciilifeform: is what vtronics are for.
jonsykkel: indeed, unacceptabl. should have assumed vtronularity was in play
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-27 14:55:03 asciilifeform: ftr the properly generalized item vtron is a shadow of, looks like this, rather than like 'git' etc abortions.
asciilifeform: i.e. unification of vtron, pgp, wottron, 'rsync', so to speak.
asciilifeform: ftr the properly generalized item vtron is a shadow of, looks like this, rather than like 'git' etc abortions.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-26 10:46:11 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: i'm using phf's patched version of my own original vtron.
asciilifeform ftr still using his original vtron from 2015 + phf's patches and intends to continue indefinitely (tho eventually would like to write depythonized replacement and w/ peh in place of gpgism)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-27 14:30:37 asciilifeform: shinohai: didja read this megalith? care to summarize the interesting differences vs. traditional vtron ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: didja read this megalith? care to summarize the interesting differences vs. traditional vtron ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc mp himself ordered an 'embrace & extinguish' format-breaking vtron yr+ ago. wainot, what's it to asciilifeform .
asciilifeform continuing in keccak lulz, asciilifeform surveyed dozen or so published impls. of the algo, incl. e.g. this www-based item (specifically keccak, rather than sha3) and found that they agree w/ one another, but none with the diana kludge used in current vtron.
asciilifeform: ^ sensationalist, imho, title, but basic observation is troo -- if you actually found how to reach one of the given magic states, then you have fucked the algo (at least for arbitrary-length inputs, e.g. vtronics)
asciilifeform: (phunphakt, asciilifeform used similar algo in the context of vtron, for ringing alarm if cyclic patch sequence is found)
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: i wrote the original vtron; and still use phf's updated (for keccakism) version of it
asciilifeform: whaack: again, these press on my (properly kv) py vtron.
asciilifeform: whaack: which vtron? and can post outputs plz?
asciilifeform: dpb: i've considered posting static binaries for keccak-vtron, etc. but historically loathed to do this.
asciilifeform: dpb: for the vtron, aha. try shinohai's recipe, afaik is the quickest way. i will be back later tonight and answer q's if you get stuck.
asciilifeform: even in 'good old days' when 20+ folx were using vtrons daily, at no pt did anyone say 'i wish machine would resolve wot ordering for me mechanically, i'm tired of sorting by hand'
asciilifeform: persistent identity -- specifically vtronics -- is the only potential mouse poison known. and the very prospect of such a thing catching on -- terrifies'em.
shinohai: Kinda makes me wonder if there are peeps not using vtron to press, and instead just downloading vpatches and manually patching.
asciilifeform will have to mirror the vtronics intro somewhere.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024042 << 1 nitpick : in my orig. vtron, the presence of an extraneous piece was a fatal eggog by default. and there was no prompting to select anything, item ran 100% w/out user interaction.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-02#1024035 << it does: proceeds through the toposorted patches. (note, however, the implicit bug in the orig. vtron, where 'sibling' nodes on the dep. graph -- if present anywhere -- would not necessarily be handled correctly )
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-31 12:37:28 asciilifeform: trinque: imho this is still a useful line of thought, tho, for e.g. hypothetical vtronic p2p mirror system and any other large-scale apparatus which rides on wot.
asciilifeform: trinque: imho this is still a useful line of thought, tho, for e.g. hypothetical vtronic p2p mirror system and any other large-scale apparatus which rides on wot.
shinohai: maybe i am mistaken was it ben vulpes that made original lisp vtron?
asciilifeform: shinohai: i aint aware of him having written a vtron
shinohai: asciilifeform: i should like to unearth gl's vtron just for research purposes if you know location
asciilifeform: adlai: i dun think laddel ever wrote a vtron (afaik)
asciilifeform: adlai: i have reason to think that you aint entirely deaf to reason : for instance, you wrote yer proggy in common lisp. so evidently capable of recognizing 'i did not bake this, but is worth building on.' would be curious to hear yer objection to vtronics .
asciilifeform: shinohai: would luvv to have proper (i.e. w/ his actual vtronics-to-html) mirror of item. but coad never published.
asciilifeform: hm this loox like an actual bug in specifically that vtron, rather than a gnupatchism
asciilifeform: shinohai: remind me, does esthlos-v use gnupatch callout (like traditional vtrons) or not ?
asciilifeform: ( logical : it's a vtronic sig. )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-17#1019644 << imho is Right Thing to bake vtronic linux. ( tho tbf 'they'll take' is a little pessimistic, afaik asciilifeform's fossilized gentoo repo is reasonably complete. and if it aint, it oughta be, folx plz send in tarballs.. )
asciilifeform: e.g. at one time, if you wanted 'mod6_der_high_low_s' and 'malleus' together, had to either have the vtron support 'parallel' presses, or unify'em into 1 patch w/ both as antecedents (what ended up happening, 'makefiles')
asciilifeform: also oughta note that asciilifeform's orig. vtron in fact had a bug where assumed there were no conflicting divergences in the patch flow
asciilifeform: this is what vtron is largely for to begin with.
asciilifeform: there is no networking code in my orig. vtron.
asciilifeform: newland0: correct. how to get patches from their disk to yours is entirely outside the scope of vtronics.
asciilifeform: adlai: if yer genuinely concerned re 'slip xyz into whateverbot', consider to use civilized vtronics instead of microshit phree-wwwsite kolhoz
asciilifeform: the operation of a vtron is fully transparent: for given set of pubkeys, patches, and signatures, will produce corresponding output. there is no hidden state.
asciilifeform: shinohai: imho jfw's complaint re the old vtrons is valid -- it's annoying to need a working gnat to build vtron w/ which to press gnat etc.
asciilifeform: shinohai: moar like mongol bow. seems like 90% of vtron users , to date, eventually baked own
asciilifeform: i also have ftr nuffin against folx writing vtrons, even in mix of cobol & awk etc.
shinohai: Looks like that bvt guy is the new vtronist for their camp
asciilifeform: shinohai: i admit, i'm still a little disappointed that mp didn't stay in biz long enuff to have 'the new, improved' vtron baked
asciilifeform: PeterL: note that i do not normally use mod6's vtron ( i prefer mine, as patched by phf for keccak, have been using this since it was published )
asciilifeform: this w/ mod6's vtron ?
asciilifeform: both mine and mod6's vtrons used filename to identify human-readable owner of pubkey
asciilifeform: imho an entirely usable implementation of this could weigh what orig. vtron did (~400ln) , not requires 'mars mission'...
asciilifeform: consider something like 'rsync' but w/ proper vtronics.
asciilifeform: (i.e. vtronically-aware commonlisp, if i correctly understand)
asciilifeform: shinohai: re esthlos's vtron -- given that cl has built-in bignum, you could prolly write mod-exp in coupla line
asciilifeform: ( possib. that was in somebody else's cl vtron ? )
mod6: I've probably used it, figure, dozen times over the years to get things into people's Vtrons for press/building tests.
asciilifeform: this is how people bring up a vtron on a box w/out 'v'
asciilifeform: curiousd0g: originally 'v' was a ~400ln. program, the vtrons folx use today are slightly more complicated. but basic knobs are same.
asciilifeform: shinohai: ftr i dun have a problem w/ crackpots making broken/incompat. vtrons. it only becomes a problem if you want to work with'em. i'ma ignore, just as i ignore microshit's idea of crypto.
Apocalyptic: looks like I need a sha-Vtron to build it anyway
shinohai: esthlos-v is a++ vtron
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: i use (patched for keccakism) my orig. 'v.py' . the one linked from the articles, maintained by diana, orig. by mod6 also worx; shinohai is using a cl vtron by esthlos (rip)
asciilifeform: thinking nao, prolly oughta write a working vtron in naked sh, it is imho unseemly that all current vtrons require 'heavy' scripting langs
asciilifeform: observe that litmus already behaves like vtron wants gpg to behave (i.e. dun need gymnastics to work around 'keychain' crapola)
asciilifeform: still need to patch vtron to ride on this.
asciilifeform: it ~does~ make finally possible to run a vtron w/ 0 kockiana inside.
asciilifeform: shinohai: for my part i've a draft of ffa-powered verifier for legacy gpg sigs (presently, only detached sigs, as used in vtrons) but also needs moar massage before posting ( and in particular, human-readable explanation of how sawed apart the format, the published docs were of ~0 help, had to vivisect the koch turd)
shinohai: First order of business is to publish post on esthlos-v before anything, since gonna be using that as my primary vtron moving forward.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 15:31:55 asciilifeform: actually started work on this in 2015, shortly after published orig. vtron -- but shelved, as phf , much handier wwwtronicist, put one up 1st. but phf never gave src.
asciilifeform quite often operates vtron on machines w/out net pipe.
asciilifeform: loading things from net is a process entirely orthogonal to vtronics, and rly oughta be kept strictly separate and responsibility of user.
asciilifeform: my orig. vtron had 0 net-accessing knobs and this was deliberate.
asciilifeform: shinohai: afaik esthlos's vtron is still closest thing available to a working one in cl, but defo not complete.
asciilifeform actually started work on this in 2015, shortly after published orig. vtron -- but shelved, as phf , much handier wwwtronicist, put one up 1st. but phf never gave src.
asciilifeform: ideally, could link to any line in any vtronic proggy, and would be visible 'which patch', 'who signed' .
shinohai: Started own lisp vtron, decided to take a look at a few other implementations to see if any ideas I could cobble.
asciilifeform: shinohai: ever think about writing your own vtron ?
asciilifeform: then nfi ( i admit, have not tried this vtron 'in anger' )
shinohai: Reading #trilema logs yesterday got me thinking would be worthwhile to pick up where esthlos left off on his vtron (add diff function, etc) though now wonder if exercise in futility, since apparently this is nothing more than kindergarten Strafbataillon, and any discussion of subj merely fodder for asciilifeform to kek over with MP. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933448