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gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: haven't been back in four years.
gregorynyssa: are the George Floyd riots still happening? really?
gregorynyssa: re: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-07#1022926
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-07 21:24:15 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-07#1022916 << lol i'ma guess you haven't been to usa lately..
gregorynyssa: BingoBoingo: that is interesting to hear about Uruguay. so basically, South America's equivalent to Rwanda?
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-07#1022924 << the whole idea of delineating these ordinalities by national borders has eroded; consider that in both Schengen and the mainland USA, you can cross from first to third, skipping over second, sometimes even on foot
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-07 18:44:47 gregorynyssa: now that the Southeast Asian countries are approaching first-world conditions, I wonder if South America will follow.
adlai: this is arguable in Schengen, although definitely the case at the outskirts of large population centres
adlai: "large population centres" in the USA; e.g., when I was last there, I actually walked from downtown Miami to the airport. interesting cross-section!
adlai: incidentally, that walk probably did more to erode my confidence in nation-states than the "North American Bitcoin Conference" that had brought me to Miami. the conference itself was an almost complete waste of time.
adlai was strongly skeptical of the dollar's strength as currency, although still had a reasonable amount of faith in the empire until exploring a few metres further inland than the tourist trap
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-07#1022925 << being much less of a sinovore than you, I have no idea whether you're using the adjective 'Chinese' literally to denote their upperclass, or metaphorically, e.g. 'chinese rolex' etc
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-07 18:54:46 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: maybe they'll achieve some Chinese version of first world.
adlai finds the legends of "planned cities" springing up in the far east quite amusing, although the trouble with planned cities is that they end up full of unplanned people
thimbronion: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-08#1022942 << to me Chinese here denotes a sort of "first world enclaves but overpopulated and surrounded by a vast sea of bioleninist poverty" type of thing.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-08 04:46:02 adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-07#1022925 << being much less of a sinovore than you, I have no idea whether you're using the adjective 'Chinese' literally to denote their upperclass, or metaphorically, e.g. 'chinese rolex' etc
adlai won't `!s bioleninis~0.9`, so burden of definition rests, shruggedly, on thimbronion's shoulda
adlai: unless you're referring to some specific concept that the spandrell has discussed elsewhere, I'll consider the brief excursion launched from http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-10-08#1000641 to have reached THE HALT STATE after at http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-06-03#1476044
snsabot: (alethepedia) 2020-10-08 thimbronion: !s spandrell
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-06-03 mircea_popescu: the debates as to genetic basis for intelligence have raged for a while in the logs. it's not really settled i guess, but there's certainly no merit for NATIONAL concepts of intelligence hm ?
adlai: in other words, please do define your -ism more precisely, lest it fade into obscurity as "just another neologism for the long slow process wherein the lines between humanity and ferality turn into a colorless green goo, furiously dreaming"
adlai queues, for sometime in the next few decades, a walk of similar length outwards from some Chinese equivalent of Miami... probably some little town who's name is rarely heard so far away from HK
thimbronion: adlai: https://spandrell.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/ - the idea is a bit more subtle than "national concepts of intelligence"
adlai: aha, ty thimbronion !
adlai notes that his unintelligent search machine can reach the halt state purely due to the process having covered enough area of realtime-cross-logtime
adlai sighs
adlai barfs
adlai: the idea is neither subtle, nor new. spandrell has just coined a new name for "affirmative action": "recruiting those who were lower status in both traditional and industrial society, ie. pre-1960 society due to their biological characteristics" (from https://spandrell.com/about/ )
adlai: calling it by a fancapropism does quite a disservice to the brute simplicity of the idea.
adlai was never a fan of the name "affirmative action", either; not when first encountering it, a decade before studying the history of science, nor once the association to "spooky action at a distance" formed.
adlai: spandrell does say that "[His] writing tends to have a focus on language, on using proper and accurate terms to name things, and how unclear language tends to have political intentions behind them.", although it seems that I'd get deleted, banned, and branded some flavor of sandnigger if I commented the above to his face!
adlai: unfortunately there are tangible reasons to poke that fellow again: tag archive links lead to bugs, e.g.: "Tagged As Japan, Leftism, Bioleninism - undefined comments"
thimbronion: adlai: likely a result of having moved his blog off of wordpress after belatedly reading the writing on the wall there.
adlai never understood the whole "[mp-]wp" fad, although perhaps this is similar to monks considering gutenberg some frivolous businessman full of bad ideas
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-07-24#1837520 << it is merely cute, and not much more, for every spaniel to have a blog; might get loud, though, for the internet is no dog park.
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-07-24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if your pet can operate a mp-wp, can use, why not
adlai: in other lulz, another "freudian slip" of... let's call him the chatbot that never learned how to program: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-07-24#1837583
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-07-24 mircea_popescu: that's the overawing important point -- the reason we are so damned good today has a lot to do with what lispers call repl and biologists call genetics. if you can get a recurring loop going you'll probably win.
adlai exaggerates, slightly; mircea does actually have code posted on his blog, was the DAO hacker, etc
thimbronion: adlai: no he was actually hosting his blog on "affirmative action" on wordpress.com.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-08#1022964 << was/is mildly decrufted fork of 2000s-era wp.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-08 09:04:13 adlai: never understood the whole "[mp-]wp" fad, although perhaps this is similar to monks considering gutenberg some frivolous businessman full of bad ideas
feedbot: http://peterl.xyz/2020/10/us-vp-debate-2020/ << Blog of Peter Lambert -- US VP Debate 2020
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.061s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.033s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.127s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.109s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651646 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.237s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.227s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.339s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.280s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391662 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.329s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.422s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.326s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651838
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.685s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=651679
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.970s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=639015 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
asciilifeform: $vwap
btcinfobot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 10885.11 USD
BingoBoingo: gregorynyssa: Well, in Uruguay's case asian means cattle amenable to herding like post-war Japan. Except here it didn't take a war. Just a flood of Italians arriving in ranching country
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-08#1022953 << ftr i read this turd a while back, and lost what remaining respect had for the author. 'natural aristocracies', lol. and repeats 100% of standard idjit 'sovietologist' talking points re 20th c. ru (as e.g. moldbug did).
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-08 08:37:40 thimbronion: adlai: https://spandrell.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/ - the idea is a bit more subtle than "national concepts of intelligence"
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I dunno why I'm stuck on it. Probably because I don't know why the idea of natural aristocracies are laughable and haven't read the standard sovietologist talking points.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: there's a number of boojums, sadly won't fit into compact summary. (e.g. 'regression to mean' ; luxury -- is dysgenic; inbreeding ; and various other ways in which the meat does not work how the aristocrats would like it to work )
asciilifeform: thimbronion: there is also the empirical side of the matter, if you'd prefer ( e.g. the 'ubermenschen' choked on 'peasant' cock in '45, and will choke again if need to )
asciilifeform: thimbronion: re 'sovietologist talking points' -- the basic fallacy that communism(tm)(r) was a sudden calamity 'from mars' , rather than good % of east eur. peasant firmware for millenia; that 'if not lenin', old regime could have happily carried on 'as it was' ; and other idiocies derived from these
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/2020/the-cost-of-packaging << The Tar Pit -- The cost of packaging
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-09-26#1022444 << these have become significantly more likely to linkrot, diesoft, etcetera; caveat spidor!
snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-26 15:51:24 adlai: verisimilitude: if you want links with reasonably deterministic content, use https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adlai/scalpl/b913a8f048b5cd5386aead2c54339f210b45abf5/scalpl.asd as your starting point
asciilifeform: adlai: y'know, could consider publishing yer softs as a vtree... then would not have to care about link rot
adlai placed a .tgz of text files; garbage does not warrant genesis, neh?
asciilifeform: adlai: you've seen the sorta scrap metal asciilifeform genesised
adlai will not, yet, deed a draft of the [exclusive!] contract offered to the digger of that gopher hole, although if the commons harbors any competing wolfsnakes, they can find the corroding vat of spoiled honey at ther frendly neighborhood http://80.244.243.194:7421/scalpl_310b539.tar.gz
asciilifeform: adlai: consider at least posting sha512 of it in the log? this almost hurts to watch, it is like being taken back 200yrs to barber-surgeon's shop of horrors, 'wash hands? what's washing?'
adlai considers, and:
adlai: ~/path/to/scalpl/ $ sha1sum *.lisp
adlai: c85a0d7e3279e0097348c12a9f9556497ccc7d1e util.lisp
adlai: a343de9e6a8675596b380df582acdf504348f5a3 actor.lisp
adlai: ec13b9ee667525555fd80c8f3586b2216470672e exchange.lisp
adlai: 85fab420a5c89916737627028e598f618cf14402 qd.lisp
adlai: b7040fec5d7f16acef62bad2b1cc67cbe228d04f bitfinex.lisp
adlai: 26cc394a8d5c64d2a5e5aca54ae777dfd10583cf bitmex.lisp
adlai: d512dddcb077dfedfd7cf437ed92abcaa114100e kraken.lisp
adlai: 3da46bfc8ab4c1fc499904324d200194ee658ef3 mpex.lisp
adlai: ae1d2f38f8e781bab9e1f88d984966db39592e14 poloniex.lisp
asciilifeform: adlai: how about whole tarball, lol
adlai: 097b683f77094047e1570a881e3b6e3e1414f3da scalpl_310b539.tar.gz # outgoing; incoming, "now that is the question"
asciilifeform: adlai: and didja somehow sleep through 2016, when arbitrary sha1 collisions for coupla$ ?
adlai: nope; and nope, not quite arbitrary.
adlai: 1c9d1fa163755fc2ba1c001b5d26716c63fc3201a8db3d4a1dc71a0984aef10fde87e4097f9dbe05dbafc82272201ea6400e5d71e1591dc7694391fb27f79b99
asciilifeform: adlai: i cannot resist to point out: in the above, you already took considerably moar sweat, than would've to bake a vtree...
adlai: that's from $(which sha512sum), a slightly less arbitrary choice of function. I am not using sha3 since I have actually yet to implement, nor ever read, its actual code.
asciilifeform: adlai: as i understand , you like 'contrarian for own sake', but this is not ultimately smart, it leads folx to become 'meat rng' .
adlai: the latter link will certainly die by 2021, probably also by the arbitrary deadline partway there, and shouldn't rot too badly until then.
asciilifeform: adlai: i have reason to think that you aint entirely deaf to reason : for instance, you wrote yer proggy in common lisp. so evidently capable of recognizing 'i did not bake this, but is worth building on.' would be curious to hear yer objection to vtronics .
adlai: a difficult request, since it doesn't sound like much of an objection; however, I accumulated enough allergy to "repositories" that included a greater biomass of metadata than the garbage itself to find both the metadata and the garbage, garbage.
adlai: diamond needles may exist in the haystack, and I am quite impressed by the orthogonality and 'N+1th-system-effect' exhibited by both your prototype, asciilifeform , and the improvements made during reimplementations.
asciilifeform: adlai: i have difficulty picturing that you do not know that v (unlike e.g. svn, git) imposes no metadata other than plain txt pgp sigs to go w/ ea. patch.
adlai: that is one reason for its strict superiority.
asciilifeform: adlai: so, if you know how it worx (and it's 5 yrs + 1mo. old nao.. and you've been tuned in longer -- oughta know ?) wainot try ?
adlai has ran, and even read!, 'forum v'; found task of writing recipe for baking 'harem v' slightly large for a single "fucker decided to eat an exercise ball", or whatever feat of planned binging earned gabriel_laddel his initial fame-rate.
asciilifeform: adlai: ben's still most readable, imho, intro to subj. (even tho pre-dates the keccak bolt-on)
adlai sighs
asciilifeform: aside from keccak hash , format hasn't changed since aug. '15
asciilifeform: adlai: i dun think laddel ever wrote a vtron (afaik)
asciilifeform: quite a few other folx did, tho, at various points
adlai: no, he distributed a "run this, it's impressive", and made a strong early impression that seems to have antifaded quite predictably.
asciilifeform: it aint a heavy exercise -- approx. what 'build dog house' is for carpenter
adlai: ok, so here is better exercise: is 'dog' genitive, or dative, in "build dog house"? [to keep the managers busy!]
adlai cites six years of logs as evidence for unprovable AWOL of ablative case from yinglish.
asciilifeform: ergative!1111
asciilifeform bbl
adlai: speaking of managers^H^Hment: one advantage of at least offering to pay someone else to deal with the aforementioned scrap metal is that it makes quick work of the heavy skill, leaving a few years for the highly unlikely possibility that I actually spill sweat instead of keystrokes.
adlai: if all these ground-level commons have to offer in the line of commissioned technical documentation is the vpatch viewer and "the necesary prerequisite for a hard fork"-style blog posts, then I am actually quite optimistic about both other directions; however, "to be continued" etc
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-08#1023010 << i also wonder y sha1sums plz
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-08 14:56:44 adlai: ~/path/to/scalpl/ $ sha1sum *.lisp
shinohai: but a vtree would be neat way to get it more "modular" i suppose.
shinohai: asciilifeform: i should like to unearth gl's vtron just for research purposes if you know location
asciilifeform: shinohai: i aint aware of him having written a vtron
asciilifeform: shinohai: do you have reason to think that he had ?
shinohai: maybe i am mistaken was it ben vulpes that made original lisp vtron?
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2020/10/criminal-complaint-filed-against-tupamaros-for-1969-taking-of-pando/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Criminal Complaint Filed Against Tupamaros For 1969 Taking Of Pando
asciilifeform: shinohai: afaik it was ben_vulpes.
adlai doubts that "also wonder y plz" needs a repetition of the response? let's have a little less fifo on the gigo loggo, plz!
adlai wonders whether verisimilitude will comment on the drafted contract ~before~ the expiration! neither the draft, nor the logs here, require any coordination beyond "work happened; problem?"

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