asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $50510.98
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.023s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=683308
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.166s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.173s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.146s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.123s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=683329 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.221s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.237s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (static.126.96.36.199.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.282s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412049 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.339s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=683447
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: trinque)
whaack: asciilifeform: For my block explorer I plan to use your logotron python code as a basis for my irc bot that is used to query the information in said block explorer. The block explorer is using sqlite3, and afaik your logotron uses postgres, which I will have to adjust for. In any case, do you recommend I fork off of aug2020_errata ?
asciilifeform: whaack: aha, i rec to take the latest. btw you can easily adjust it to use sqlite if you need, there's a py lib
whaack: yes, I figured it won't be a problem, since I already use py's sqlite3 library for the block explorer itself
whaack: tbh, I wanted to use the lisp ircbot, but I figured since the explorer is already in python itself it makes no sense to add on another language. also, I couldn't get lisp + sqlite working together nicely, there's a library for it, but it seemed like it was going to be an adventure getting that library up and running on both my machine and the gentoo one I rent from you
asciilifeform: whaack: fwiw sbcl + quicklisp known to work on my gentoos.
asciilifeform: whaack: there's a different headache though, there, afaik no one ever baked 100% proper reconnect logic for the lisp ircism
asciilifeform: (can't imagine it'd take moar than a weekend to backport from my py example. but would have to do it)
asciilifeform: whaack: i rec to collaborate w/ billmg, who is baking a very related thing based on watchglass.
whaack: asciilifeform: I'm pretty certain I understand the problem with the irc reconnect logic as I've posted the solution for it before, and mentioned what needs to be added here http://thimbron.com/2020/11/ircbot-alt-genesis/#comment-231, I honestly wanted to use the lisp ircbot to show an example of working reconnect logic, but alas looks like I'll have to do that separately.
asciilifeform: oh hm, i recall this. but not tested.
whaack: asciilifeform: I can press up to navbar_date_auto.kv.vpatch , but not up to searchpg_oldlinks and consequently not up to aug2020_errata. I can't figure out why. I checked the signatures via gpg --verify, they work, and checked the file names, and everything seems like it should be lined up.
asciilifeform: whaack: which vtron? and can post outputs plz?
asciilifeform: whaack: ftr i test-press on mine before releasing a patch.
whaack: v.pl by the bitcoin foundation version 99991
asciilifeform: whaack: what happens when you attempt to press ? (and does it show in flow?)
whaack: asciilifeform: it doesn't show in flow, that is the problem
whaack: I noticed that the link names on your blog for the 2 patches i'm having trouble with don't have the ".kv." in them, but the actual files they link to do however have the .kv. in their names, so I don't think that's the problem but it may be a hint
asciilifeform: whaack: again, these press on my (properly kv) py vtron.
asciilifeform: i'ma fix the links tho, ty
asciilifeform: whaack: actually there may be sumthing wrong w/ these last 2 re: the manifest diff. will examine & regrind if necessary.
whaack: asciilifeform: thanks I'll keep looking into myself..
whaack: asciilifeform: it looks like the chain of manifest hashes is indeed broken with the last 2
asciilifeform: whaack: indeed. will fix and post reground patches later today.
asciilifeform: whaack: ty for reporting.
asciilifeform: for readers : item has been on my www for yr+, whaack is 1st to notice broken patch.
asciilifeform: whaack: fixed!!
asciilifeform: whaack: it was the searchpg_oldlinks patch, inadvertently was generated with old vdiff. (its successor -- was proper.)
asciilifeform: whaack: reground, signed, uploaded. (only the hashes differ.)
asciilifeform: lemme know when tested plz.
asciilifeform still has nfi how this slipped by his own test process. but nao fixed..
whaack: asciilifeform: tyvm!
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: so is 99991 the latest version of V?
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: of mod6's? afaik yes
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: do you use a different implementation? I would love to see it, if it is public.
gregorynyssa: I thought you were the author of the Python version. maybe I was wrong.
gregorynyssa: I wanted to write a version of V in Tcl, but the reference-implementation of that language was not very well engineered.
gregorynyssa: I still consider the language to have a few merits, though.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: i wrote the original vtron; and still use phf's updated (for keccakism) version of it
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: thanks for clarifying. that is nice to hear.
asciilifeform really oughta set up a unified mirror of whole thing.
gregorynyssa: maybe write an RFC of the data-format?
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: considered to do this, but loathe to make old gpg part of the spec. but my replacement for it not yet ready.
asciilifeform: at any rate not clear for whom to write rfc. erryone who gives a damn, already knows how v works.
asciilifeform: (not to mention, from pov of utterly barbaric heathens, 'it's just unix diff' and 'can press by hand' )
gregorynyssa: one day when the Chinese programmer-community is decoupled from the American one, this might become a thing.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: everything i've ever experienced from cn seemed to point in exactly opposite direction.
asciilifeform: rather like ru orcs, they are mired to the gills in microshit and don't even 'see' it, as fish does not see water
asciilifeform: ('microshit culture' aint simply about the braindamaged os, it has 'over 9000' various comorbidities, e.g. 'cut&paste culture' which results in ocean of incomprehensible shitware no matter what the participants do)
gregorynyssa: Chinese programmer-community has been dominated by a caste of Chinese citizens possessing American degrees.
gregorynyssa: they are losing power though. public opinion is turning against them. political factors disfavor them.
asciilifeform does not know details of this, cannot comment. but does know that no matter what kind of political change, will not result in creating a sovereign intellectual culture (even in 1 domain, of softs) from empty air.
gregorynyssa: we are not that many decades away from the death of former intellectual cultures. there is still hope IMO.
gregorynyssa: a CS undergraduate can get a better education today going over Knuth and Hoare's old papers than from his courses.
gregorynyssa: no reason why the restoration of 70s/80s cannot be our starting point.
gregorynyssa: V essentially fits within the late 1980s environment. it represents a road which was not taken at the time.
gregorynyssa: instead we got SVN. (=
shinohai: but muh git-bisect
gregorynyssa: imagine Linus Torvalds in 1991 embarking on a kernel with quasi-Ada rigorousness, w/ design-by-contract drivers backed by Hoare Logic.
gregorynyssa: still not a LISP machine, but compared to what we have now...
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-13#1036188 << it makes me think I never cut an updated release of the thing, since deedbot indeed has proper ping/pong and reconnect.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-13 13:09:38 asciilifeform: whaack: there's a different headache though, there, afaik no one ever baked 100% proper reconnect logic for the lisp ircism
trinque: I haven't touched deedbot for anything in perhaps a year.
trinque: that said I've got no intent to maintain it, so highly recommend asciilifeform's bot
verisimilitude: I'm proud to have found issues with seemingly benign aspects of computing, such as common usage of character sets; are the Chinese just using Unicode, gregorynyssa?
verisimilitude: On that note, it's been a week since I last mentioned our future conversation, asciilifeform; I'm not being impatient, and had considered mentioning I'd mention it again in one week, but thought that unnecessary, then.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-13#1036242 That would've required he understood what he was doing, and his willingness to argue with his betters, on the basis of playing king of the hill with his millions of lines of convention, shows he'll never even recognize something is amiss.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-13 15:52:22 gregorynyssa: imagine Linus Torvalds in 1991 embarking on a kernel with quasi-Ada rigorousness, w/ design-by-contract drivers backed by Hoare Logic.
verisimilitude: They brag about thwarting a one-line root vulnerability insertion, and then complain that university was testing their development practices lately.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-13#1036248 << almost everywhere. there might still be some legacy-systems using the older GB.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-13 17:02:57 verisimilitude: I'm proud to have found issues with seemingly benign aspects of computing, such as common usage of character sets; are the Chinese just using Unicode, gregorynyssa?
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-13 17:41:04 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-13#1036242 That would've required he understood what he was doing, and his willingness to argue with his betters, on the basis of playing king of the hill with his millions of lines of convention, shows he'll never even recognize something is amiss.
trinque: the "worse is better" meme comes out of the american shortsighted addiction to "next quarter's results"
trinque: linux grew inside those incentive structures, regardless of whether the item itself was "free"
trinque: (consider that this applies whether you consider the paid developers that dominate today's linux development, or volunteer devs)
trinque: the former for obvious reasons, the latter because they're cramming the development into what free time they have
verisimilitude: UNIX was created by some who worked on Multics, and even then in Bell Labs; it seems more like an accident to me.