dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-16 22:06:44 asciilifeform: thimbronion et al : yer latest test appears to have made pestnet uninhabitable until the decoding idiocy fixed -- asciilifeform's station dies immed. on getdata ( tried 3x nao )
thimbronion: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-16#1107240 << incidentally was not my test but when billymg quoted smilies into #pest. Initially only killed those directly connected to the logbot. Then when asciilifeform and billymg updated with the fix, they spread the contagion.
asciilifeform: thimbronion et al : yer latest test appears to have made pestnet uninhabitable until the decoding idiocy fixed -- asciilifeform's station dies immed. on getdata ( tried 3x nao )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-13 18:16:06 asciilifeform: phf: arguably there's an unnecessary barb in current protocol, where netchain is unused for direct msg sessions -- really oughta be treated as simply special case of broadcast in that sense, where netchain includes the 2 parties strictly
adlai|text has been procrastinating studying pestnet, mostly due to the impression that the spec was still a draft, and clients still only rough prototypes
adlai|text: my impression from skimming logs is that migration to pestnet is underway, despite the spec still officially being a moving target?
signpost: gets rid of uppity oligarch, and sprays pesticide on "crypto". win win.
vex: me, i prefer to get off the plane and find a tout to find me the cheapest hotel
asciilifeform couldn't even fit e.g. pest into a4 sheet. or 20. (dun mean ~no one~ could, naturally)
TomServo: The rockchip was my first step towards a pest station, I look forward to seeing you there.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-27 12:59:10 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089476 << asciilifeform aint much concerned w/ 'future versions of irc' as has 0 plans to use'em for anyffin. in fact plans to retire the dulapnet irc at some pt when pest 100% mature
asciilifeform: TomServo: here's key for asciilifeform's station on current pestnet. asciilifeform recs to join.
TomServo: I came to pester (nyuk) asciilifeform with a question about his rockchip gentoo build guide, but eventually figured it out. The sshd_config does not allow empty passwords, so unable to login out of the box. Perhaps a note in the guide?
vex: should I change my name if I move to pestnet?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-13 17:46:27 asciilifeform: 194x: 'he's the radio man of our rote kapelle' 202x: 'he's our pester'
asciilifeform: ( in the hypothetical 'uwb pest' -- erry msg you send potentially demasks yer position and brings gestapo closer )
asciilifeform: ( this incidentally illustrates (entire class of) unsolved problems in re hypothetical 'uwb radio pest' )
asciilifeform: phf: arguably there's an unnecessary barb in current protocol, where netchain is unused for direct msg sessions -- really oughta be treated as simply special case of broadcast in that sense, where netchain includes the 2 parties strictly
asciilifeform: ( and in current scheme, if one insists on guaranteed 'they heard me', can issue 'prod' to one's net , to similar effect )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-13 17:31:10 phf: asciilifeform: my "protocol" if you call it that is a lot more needy than pest, because not trying to fight fbi or whatever. for example there's a lot of back and forth over "did you get the message? yes i got the message. are you sure you got the message? yes, i'm sure, did you get my message that i'm sure" etc.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-06 13:43:52 asciilifeform: signpost: would be handy to have it in #a (which asciilifeform plans to keep around as a n00b door, until figures out a way to cleanly bridge an irc door to pestnet) but not essential imho
bitbot: (pest) 2022-06-08 asciilifeform: awt: was thinking about a hypothetical blatta mod for emplacing e.g. a n00b gate in place of dulapnet;
asciilifeform: fwiw apropos asciilifeform's notion of similar
asciilifeform interested to see what comes of phf's idea of www door into a pestnet
asciilifeform: 194x: 'he's the radio man of our rote kapelle' 202x: 'he's our pester'
asciilifeform: an 'appstore pest' is arguably similar to 'central bank cryptocurrency' and other bizarre wastes of kilowattage
shinohai: logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-13#1106463 << yeah running pestronics on phone won't be for avg. "app for that" user, requires getting hands dirty.
asciilifeform: phf: n00b walks in; cites a pest thrd, asks n00b q; asciilifeform : 'read sect. x of spec' . is typical. but not equiv. to 'what, imbecile, haven't read fucking scripture?' of mp, and imho disingenuous parallel
asciilifeform: fwiw (and apologies to folx for whom this fact 100% obv) -- pest is an algo, rather than 'product'; anyone who wants can not only use 'internally' but refine and diverge in whatever preferred way, and not expected to necessarily tell asciilifeform & co. or advertise, is simply mechanical refinement of ancient tech.
phf: asciilifeform: my "protocol" if you call it that is a lot more needy than pest, because not trying to fight fbi or whatever. for example there's a lot of back and forth over "did you get the message? yes i got the message. are you sure you got the message? yes, i'm sure, did you get my message that i'm sure" etc.
asciilifeform: phf: iirc shinohai actually operates a pestron in this style
punkman: not asking for pestron, but why wouldn't it
asciilifeform: punkman: surely you aint under the notion that a pestron would last >5sec in an 'appstore
punkman: I enjoyed trying to implement earlier Pest spec. learned a few bits about networking/sockets/etc
crtdaydreams: I apologise for my insolence asciilifeform, phf. I've only meaningfully read through the pest spec once, other 4 times were simply a perusal from nothingburger conversations. It's evident that I have nothing to contribute and will take my leave.
asciilifeform: phf: i've genuinely nfi why. in #a log you will not find mp-style 'if you dun read pestspec, yer a lamer, slice lengthwise, manlet' etc
asciilifeform: ... likely to considerable surprise from phf's pov, these already baked 2 reasonably-complete pestrons
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
crtdaydreams: possib only way will fit-in-head (and stay there) would be to write own pestron
crtdaydreams has sworn read pest spec like 5 times, but done nothing w/ info and not "fit in head" (i.e. print out and read)
phf: ^ "Traditional IRC offers no provisions for secure authentication or encryption; hence, it is recommended that a Pest station and its IRC client reside in one physical machine. Alternatively, they may run on separate machines and connect via an SSH tunnel or similar mechanism."
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: #pest dun exist as a public irctron, the ircism is emulated by yer station
asciilifeform: you can have remote link b/w pestron and the box into which typing, currently, but will consist inescapably of brittle heathen pseudocrypto
crtdaydreams: ip/port same for dulapnet as for #pest?
crtdaydreams: on that note, was wondering if pest spec would work with "traditional" irc bouncers with a mod
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: 'home box' is precisely the intended place, esp. after nat headaches permanently put to rest
crtdaydreams: will probably not use as sandboxen running www as aforementioned, but main gist of the q was whether or not running pestron on home boxen is considered "safe practice"
asciilifeform: and so, ideally the box which runs the pestron oughta be the one you type into. ( can use e.g. 'screen' over ssh to operate a remote pestron, but if you were to use it as plain irc server, anyone can snoop yer wot keys, and the login pw per se, and operate yer station whenever )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-06 13:48:07 asciilifeform: included the irc knobs so as to remove 'blocking' problem of writing clients, guis, etc. but is certainly possible to drive a pestron via a dedicated interface w/out ircism
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-13 16:08:19 crtdaydreams: re-reading pest spec for *nth time. is it best not to run on home net and opt instead for sandboxen vps?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-13#1106354 << must emphasize, the irc component in pest is pointedly ~not~ for to have remote link b/w the box you type into and the pestron. for elementary reason of the irc protocol per se giving 0 security of any kind
crtdaydreams: re-reading pest spec for *nth time. is it best not to run on home net and opt instead for sandboxen vps?
signpost: mats: get in pest already
bitbot: (pest) 2022-06-13 busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $23544.74
asciilifeform: e.g. these would prolly work better. tho not sure how it'd hold up if left in the sun
bitbot: (pest) 2022-05-19 signpost[asciilifeform]: (item desired is more like "truck computer" than "pocket")
signpost: probably going to use as truckputer going forward. I've wanted a mapping item that isn't a phone, or was a phone with hw switches.
billymg: as part of this i also fixed the "from:user" search for pest chans so that it ignores the hearsay handles
phf: asciilifeform: did your pest peering information change? 71.191...
bitbot: (pest) 2022-05-30 asciilifeform: tried various 'fascist classics', j.evola, etc. -- guaranteed sleep
asciilifeform: often enuff accompanied by a very stereotypical preoccupation with 1900s-style 'eugenics', demonstrative collection of old snoary 'fascist classics' , etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-08 22:24:51 vex: asciilifeform, have you done any pest radio expeirments yet?
vex: not sure if I've had a cool idea or the home made pesto came from the wrong plot
vex: asciilifeform, have you done any pest radio expeirments yet?
signpost: "last" tracker could be built on pest.
asciilifeform: e.g. mp's camwhores proved conclusively that there is no 'min iq' or particularly heavy training needed to irc. and pestron not intrinsically moar complicated than subj.
asciilifeform: ... no particular reason wai couldn't send videochat etc. over pest, or whatever other payload
asciilifeform thinks he grasps phf's point re 'rough edges' . most of'em however artifacts of draft impl. rather than intrinsic to a p2p net. i.e. there's no particular reason wai one couldn't have an outwardly aol-shaped pest client, so long as has a means to exch keys (say, with barcode <-> camera rub)
asciilifeform: phf: (again theoretically...) a pestron implementing sect. 5 would not need 'flip flag xyz'
shinohai would like to see pest on a 650 Nintendo famicon system .....
asciilifeform: phf: well in fact not dismissing, hence thought 'nuffin in principle prevents lolcat aficionados riding on a pestnet'
asciilifeform: from this pov pestron would satisfy, also has 0 notion of 'disconnect'
shinohai: pest on android pnoje easy as weechat + glowing bear
asciilifeform recalls shinohai's experiments with pest on pnoje. theoretically could have a working pestron on pnoje, and with e.g. barcodes for key loading, tho obv. a laugh from security pov. but illiterates could use, in principle, if one could somehow sneak it into 'appstores' etc
asciilifeform: ^ recs that day's thrds to all pest n00bs, lotsa good discussion imho
asciilifeform: given how there are no private keys in pest, only peering keys known simult. to both ends of a peering.
asciilifeform: ( per current spec, all ~well-behaved~ stations on a pestnet, to arbitrary depth, are distinguishable )
asciilifeform: a primary objective of pest algo is 'messages cheap enuff to process that you can do it at nic line rate', and sadly incompat. w/ the use of any known serious pubkey sig algo w/out custom iron.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform specifically refused to make experimentation w/ pestronics contingent on using some halfbaked cli client
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-06#1104881 << both blatta and smalpest work great in my testing, and have noticed 0 issues with 'em talking to each other (e.g. smalpest no longer performs DOS on blatta)
asciilifeform: when nat drilling properly implemented in clients, expect this kinda thing will lessen -- but doubt will disappear 100%
asciilifeform: phf: observe btw that a good % of hearsay on the current pestnet is 'from my peer but somehow peering aint working atm'
verisimilitude: How large is a current Pest, anyway; I'd figure fewer than two thousand lines, easily.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: can read public log of the public pestnet even nao
verisimilitude: If I don't finish in time, I'll just have to have someone else's Pest log in my way, so I can replace it later.
asciilifeform: has 0 intention to fuck around in the guts of ancient x11 proggies to bake in pest support any time soon
asciilifeform does not begrudge verisimilitude or anybody else their custom ircless pestrons
verisimilitude: On the topic of an IRC interface, I figure it would be simple to have a little program sit between the Pest log and the operator, to provide exactly this with fewer complications.
asciilifeform: ... if phf posts a self-contained cl pestronics lib, could be integrated directly into bots etc. nifty
signpost: imho the usenet-like features are interesting enough to eventually merit pest-specific clients
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-06 13:46:50 asciilifeform: not to mention fact that you can't sit down on a pestnet w/out getting some keys, and where keep keys ?
asciilifeform included the irc knobs so as to remove 'blocking' problem of writing clients, guis, etc. but is certainly possible to drive a pestron via a dedicated interface w/out ircism
asciilifeform: not to mention fact that you can't sit down on a pestnet w/out getting some keys, and where keep keys ?
phf: my pest is not going to be to spec, interested parties can extend once i release, specifically i'm not going to do irc layer at all
asciilifeform: ( a js pest client is theoretically possible, but where would it keep old msgs ? )
verisimilitude: I suppose the goal for moving over to Pest is within this year, right?
asciilifeform: signpost: would be handy to have it in #a (which asciilifeform plans to keep around as a n00b door, until figures out a way to cleanly bridge an irc door to pestnet) but not essential imho
signpost: ^ going to move this over to pest now.
verisimilitude: It's not too late to change Pest to use the proper endian, the network order.
verisimilitude: What are the odds they've read the Pest specification?
asciilifeform: the fyootoor is pestronic.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-31#1104345 << available on pestnet unless *really* needed here.
asciilifeform fwiw in fact wrote 1st draft of pest sprec on an 'alphasmart'. little toy wordprocessor which runs on 'aa' batteries and worx in sunlight.
verisimilitude: On the topic of Pest, I'll eventually finish my Serpent implementations, and then I'll have all required pieces for combining.
verisimilitude: A pest message could probably be expanded a little, without issue, rather than eating into the payload.
shinohai: Dunno currently testing smalpest via pentacle, don't think it auto-updates.
shinohai: asciilifeform: can haz gpgram of your latest pest ip at yer convenience so can update AT ?
verisimilitude: Is Pest military-grade?
punkman: I looked at zig when I wanted to write pest prototype, was unimpressed with the docs and std lib.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-05-19 asciilifeform: searched for yrs for usb-controllable battery -> 5v supply to make rk 'portable', not found off-shelf
vex: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-19#1005615 what would said item feature alf? (et al)
shinohai: billymg: strangely enuf using smalpest I no longer see you as hearsay!
shinohai: I've got this weird little net going by myself then I reckon, was testing jonsykkel 's newest smalpest - I can see messages from my phone, and the bot recognizes my cmds but naught else it appears.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-05-20 billymg: test
billymg: strange, i didn't do anything except connect in weechat and issue a test message (which the bot logged properly)
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-20 18:46:11 shinohai: billymg: is logbot down on pestnet?
shinohai: billymg: is logbot down on pestnet?
asciilifeform: is wai e.g. asciilifeform went straight to dulapnet/pest/etc and not to the new fleanode
asciilifeform: hence asciilifeform's predilection for 'unsexy' names. 'pest', not 'reich remover', etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-11 19:38:48 phf: so obv depending on how much btc you have in tow you either live in a mansion with slaves or you find the cheapest room/etc bb style, at this point presumably and if you planned well you have for all practical purposes an infinite runway. you live in your shack or whatever, periodically cashing in btc, indefinitely. now that's kind of like the baseline: you are now free to participate inthe btc economy, or republican economy
phf: so obv depending on how much btc you have in tow you either live in a mansion with slaves or you find the cheapest room/etc bb style, at this point presumably and if you planned well you have for all practical purposes an infinite runway. you live in your shack or whatever, periodically cashing in btc, indefinitely. now that's kind of like the baseline: you are now free to participate inthe btc economy, or republican economy
asciilifeform: signpost: pestronic teleoperation could be interesting
billymg would welcome either one of them if they showed up here or in #pest and wanted to work towards any number of things being worked on here
thimbronion: Lets say pest as implemented was much larger and there were some dupe handles in the net - one approach you could take would be to get the dupes in your L1 if you cared about what they had to say, or get someone connected to the dupe in your L1.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pest/multipath.png << better example. you're '0' and station in question is '5'. path to you from the latter can be 5->4->1->0, 5->3->2->0, 5->2->1->0, even if 4,3,2 are all alive, randomly
asciilifeform: thimbronion: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pest/paths.png
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-08 23:32:05 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-08#1100608 << e.g. this net. say you're station '0'.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-08#1100608 << e.g. this net. say you're station '0'.
asciilifeform: atm nobody on pestnet has any kinda l2+. so not exactly pressing.
asciilifeform: not yet in the current draft spec, however. ideally would like to find a way to put it in w/out breaking orig. protocol.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-07 14:40:36 asciilifeform: satisfied that powism and nothing-to-the-stranger system are physically contradictory
asciilifeform satisfied that powism and nothing-to-the-stranger system are physically contradictory
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-07 13:21:39 signpost: re: pest, if there's a way to... huehue... "mint" a unique nick I will be surprised if that process doesn't look like "proof of work".
shinohai: Made my first pentacle pbuild of jonsykkel's smalpest, love this shit.
signpost: re: pest, if there's a way to... huehue... "mint" a unique nick I will be surprised if that process doesn't look like "proof of work".
verisimilitude: I'll write more about Pest when I'll be closer to finishing my client.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 11:58:52 asciilifeform: thimbronion: recall the orig. reason why pest is using symmetric crypto, btw
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: plz read the spec.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-05#1100135 << there is no public key crypto in pest. pest keys are secret keys (i.e. known strictly to a given pair of peers), your statement makes 0 sense in context of pest
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-21 20:44:32 asciilifeform: if a hero arises who comes up with an algo for forcing handles on a multi-level pestnet to actually stay unique -- let's all take off hats & use it
signpost: working on a formalized notion of a "job" which I can huck easily at a server running this system, and have it fire up and receive command/control via pest.
verisimilitude: Nothing specific to Pest is yet present.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-05 03:01:52 thehorrors: is asciilifeform building pest? Is it in Ada?
signpost: I figure all pest-wot needs is a rule like "I believe the worst rating I receive with the most recent bitcoin block hash"
thehorrors: is asciilifeform building pest? Is it in Ada?
thehorrors: I didn't read the spec yet, but isn't pest a p2p communication protocol? How would it support decentralized WoT persistence? In my view it should be something like a blockchain
signpost: would be a mighty fine thing to build atop pest.
adlai|textonly: if you want a mental model for Pest hardware, think about walkie-talkies, or CB radios, except with the property that the channel selector can be set arbitrarily.
vex: also, pest meets @ sea will work splendidly
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-03 21:02:06 vex: hey alf, would pest handle a couple billion users? Just dreamt up a global microcommoditoes exchange.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-03 22:22:43 vex: does pest have a donation address? obiously it could go to you, but there are various contributors
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-03#1099730 << there aint a pest equiv. of tbf piggy, given as there aint a pest equiv. of tbf. contact individual contributors for addrs.
vex: does pest have a donation address? obiously it could go to you, but there are various contributors
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-16 09:50:23 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-16#1084540 << in principle you can have any # of stations you like on a pestnet if you set a reasonable bounce cutoff. however asciilifeform's official pov is that a group of mutual ~peers~ must be <= 'dunbar' number. the design reflects
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-03 21:02:06 vex: hey alf, would pest handle a couple billion users? Just dreamt up a global microcommoditoes exchange.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-03#1099707 << what diff does '# of users' make in a decentralized net? ( if yer asking re '# of stations on 1 pestnet' -- then see also.)
verisimilitude: Specialized Pest hardware doesn't seem particularly complex.
verisimilitude: I've thought about the design of specialized Pest hardware, but don't know which designs are feasible.
vex: hey alf, would pest handle a couple billion users? Just dreamt up a global microcommoditoes exchange.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-04-27 bitbot: I am bot version 733831.
asciilifeform: hmm, odd, loox outta order
asciilifeform expects the problem of low-snr folx will 'get fixed' by pestnet migration. 'shape up' or end up, at best, under sumbody's PCUT 0
verisimilitude: I'm getting ahead of myself, but want an offensive name for my Pest implementation.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: current draft canonical link.
verisimilitude: Say, asciilifeform, I usually don't ask permission, but I'm thinking about showing someone in some hellhole I find myself occasionally glancing at Pest; this is alright, right?
bitbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 16:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
thehorrors: Also, wouldn't pest benefit from gc?
verisimilitude: Pest needs to be fast, and it's very rigid.
thehorrors: there are a copule of C programs I've seen for pest I think - but no lisp.
crtdaydreams would like to be on pest before added to scoopbot if at all possible
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-14 12:28:06 PeterL: I'm thinking I am going to stop scoopbot here and just have it reporting in #pest
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
asciilifeform: gregory2: observe that pestronics neither promise nor deliver on what asciilifeform suspects was primary appeal of urbitism, 'hey, wanna be a little fuhrer? a gauleiter in our reich? have some serfs under yer boot?' which is 1 reason why you won't be reading about pest on yc, nyt, shitcoin-magazine.
gregory2: I did not say that Urbit was appealing, but that Pest might deliver on some of the original expectations of Urbit's following.
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov, the part where the runtime weighs moar than his entire os, lol, is problem. but not aiming to dissuade gregory2, simply will point out that he does not keep java around, and won't be testing a javaistic pestron or other proggy personally
gregory2: Pest is like a small slice of Urbit's vision done correctly.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-24 12:35:52 asciilifeform: gregory2: do you have a working station on the current pestnet ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-22 14:23:50 asciilifeform: even if 0 upstream headaches, is gonna have to clean the fans or sumsuch in it eventually. was at one pt gonna set up an offsite spare, but imho at this pt will say 'pestnet is the spare!'
asciilifeform: gregory2: do you have a working station on the current pestnet ?
asciilifeform: this afaik is the 1 serious open problem in pestronics (errything else is relatively straightforward afaik)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-21 20:44:32 asciilifeform: if a hero arises who comes up with an algo for forcing handles on a multi-level pestnet to actually stay unique -- let's all take off hats & use it
asciilifeform: gregory2: there's a 0xfa draft but still needs much massage.
gregory2: asciilifeform: are we expecting version 0xfa of Pest soon?
asciilifeform: not pestnet, yet, tho
adlai|textonly: pestnet log viewer currently has probably incorrect behavior; tail anchor links to current (UTC) day, which is empty, despite the tail link's anchor text referring to a time in UTC yesterday
asciilifeform: you'd need some scenario no less exotic than e.g. an interplanetary pestnet, at 'dollar a byte' bandwidth, to justify such thing imho
billymg: trilema, asciilifeform, pest, ossasepia, etc. etc.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-23 02:15:47 crtdaydreams: which probably fits more inline with pest philosophy, but I still think having the capacity to make information freely available should have precedence, at least an option for forwarding that is clearly defined in spec
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-23#1098289 << this is rather redundant in pestronics -- recall that a pest station communicates ~exclusively~ with its l1 peers.
crtdaydreams: which probably fits more inline with pest philosophy, but I still think having the capacity to make information freely available should have precedence, at least an option for forwarding that is clearly defined in spec
crtdaydreams: ^ speaking of pest re: DHT I was thinking of a 1-byte principle similar to the vpatch one; e.g. detailing 11 "have read and understand". similar format could be used for "availiable on request" "availiable to only users in L1" etc.
signpost: (may soon be done over pest by entirely other means, for example)
asciilifeform even if 0 upstream headaches, is gonna have to clean the fans or sumsuch in it eventually. was at one pt gonna set up an offsite spare, but imho at this pt will say 'pestnet is the spare!'
verisimilitude: I look forward to using my Pest, if I can help it, but it will have a Spartan interface.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: pestnet worx pretty well atm, on thimbronion's proggy
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-18 13:54:46 thimbronion: I'm just gonna try out LispWorks and see how well debugging multiple processes works. Could come in very hande for pest dev.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-21#1097847 << using blatta for own station, smalpest for bot atm.
asciilifeform aims to bridge dulapnet to pestnet in some sane way, and operate #a as a n00b portal strictly
asciilifeform: pestnet contains most of the #a folx, and going for coupla month nao.
Mocky: I started to read the pest spec, look a lot more concrete than orig gossipd spec
asciilifeform: wilkommen to #a, btw, Mocky . ( and be sure to try out pestnet, to where the action slowly moving )
signpost: later, when pestron's had that doesn't demand a python, python oughta slip out just as politely as in.
signpost: were there a DHT atop pest, one can imagine a scenario where one's server fleet requests the binary representation of $HASH, and gets a trustworthy swarm download reply from friendlies.
adlai: rereading exact wording of Pest 3.3.1.6.8, I suppose my suggestion does not violate this, since I'm not suggesting that any specific message trigger printing to the console.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-19 16:55:03 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-19#1097253 << 'ignore' ? cuz nobody wants GBs of liquishit pumped to his console, lolwtf
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-19#1097253 << 'ignore' ? cuz nobody wants GBs of liquishit pumped to his console, lolwtf
adlai meanwhile has improved understanding of pest spec; writing peer seems like a reasonable target, although at the complex end of the range.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-04-19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/9978-bugfixes/tree/blatta/lib/station.py << lol 404 ( hey phf ?? )
asciilifeform: btw phf , possib. bug in there
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform believes that if tonight he is flattened by piano, the party will go on in recognizably similar spirit on pestnet, won't 'devolve to reddit'
signpost: there were prereqs not in place then, that are still not now. pest's part of it.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
adlai: superorganisms are not required to self-identify using some proper noun; what's wrong with simply saying, e.g., "the pest spec is a shared product of folks who gave feedback to asciilifeform in the IRC server run for that purpose, among others"
asciilifeform: e.g. jonsykkel . shows up, coupla wks later brings a working pestron.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-19 09:53:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-18#1096730 << consider writing a pestron.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
signpost: were one to pest-tronically have the rest of a traditional hierarchy, there'd be a hierarchy of networks with formalized ways of passing messages up and down between them.
phf: pest ideology was already flushed out in the early tmsr days, stems directly from the idea of sovereignty and lordship.
asciilifeform: phf: observe that 'n heads' is explicitly part of e.g. pest ideology.
asciilifeform: atm we have a much smaller but in fact rather similar party. signpost brought deedbot , asciilifeform -- rack, dulapnet, pest spec, various trbisms; thimbronion -- blatta; billymg -- noad walker; shinohai -- mirrors; various other folx -- useful commentary (e.g. punkman returned briefly and participated in pest spec hammering) ; etc
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-18#1096730 << consider writing a pestron.
mats: buying from anywhere it happens to be cheapest is the logical global endgame
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
crtdaydreams: will be able to do pest when I get home, will need a peer to do nat fwd
asciilifeform: to round off this subthread -- often enuff ~can~ solve problem, if replace it w/ ~different~ problem, that is solvable w/ avail. means. e.g.
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-11#1094984 << was thinking of trb with a pest interface in addition to the traditional one. so if you're plugged shut on the traditional front, can still communicate with your friends, assuming have enough friends not all of them being similarly plugged shut at the same time
crtdaydreams: no hurry, won't be able to continue pest setup for another ~wk~ or so anyways
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-25 13:15:43 asciilifeform: bonechewer: there's this variety of 'pseudo-open source' that is esp. pestilential in re: hardware -- y'know, where 'you can have the src, but all you can do with it is gawk because missing x,y,z,p,q,r essential parts, with various excuses'
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: were you thinking of writing a pestron? (or why udp)
dulapbot: whaack last seen here on 2022-03-31 10:41:00: asciilifeform: the irc interface means it can be integrated with pest so that upload is limited to pest peers
asciilifeform: ^ ultimate shape of 'adult' pest.
verisimilitude: It's in the same style as ``Have a constant connection that doesn't go down for longer than fifteen minutes.'' with Pest.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: per pest conception, you wanna be able to ensure unfraggedness even if pesting from moving truck and wardriving, which precludes 'clever' path mtu discovery etc
asciilifeform: theoretically ideal terrain for 'pest'
asciilifeform: what's needed is http over pest, where can fetch e.g. http://localhost:1337/asciilifeform/loper-os.org and it'll work for so long as asciilifeform is in yer l_n (for some n)
mangol: in non-Pest hacks, i designed a very simple client-server protocol to get static data using either a hash or a pathname. wrote a server and client for it.
mangol: DNS over Pest seems doable
mangol: in other potential pest hacks, the political stability of the DNS has given me concern lately
crtdaydreams: ohh ok. ja. all things considered in terms of a pest grid, how'd ya get around USG radio mafia?
asciilifeform: the way to 'keep out morons' is not to live in anonysoup to start with