Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

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asciilifeform: thimbronion: say, is so 'locked', and then 5 peers with 1. nao you have 5->1->0, through no fault of yer own, and this invalidates your 'lock'
asciilifeform: you update it, and next week their link breaks (temporarily or otherwise), thenwat
asciilifeform: point asciilifeform was trying to make is that paths through the net aint in any sense permanent, or reliably knowable (beyond l1), or all that meaningful arguably
asciilifeform: e.g. in multipath.png 1 is equally likely to see 5's msg through 4, 2, or 2, in any given instance, depending on who is alive
asciilifeform: he might also see it from e.g. 0 if the latter links up with 5 at whatever point
asciilifeform: likewise, a hypothetical impostor-5 who's connected via 4,3,2 will not be distinguishable from genuine-5
asciilifeform: (without some other mechanism)
asciilifeform: ( recall that the 'complete path' is not available to anyone, all a station can see is via which l1 a msg arrives )
asciilifeform: that is, this is the only hard prior; any other info is 'promisetronic'
vex: smartarse
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $33345.54
asciilifeform: cheapcoinz!!1
thimbronion: << specified algo only allows locking to l1 peers and also is a heuristic, as stated. Empirically people don't update their graph all that much.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 00:27:34 asciilifeform: point asciilifeform was trying to make is that paths through the net aint in any sense permanent, or reliably knowable (beyond l1), or all that meaningful arguably
asciilifeform: thimbronion: atm nobody has much in the way of an l2+
asciilifeform: so imho early to speak of 'empirically'
asciilifeform: thimbronion: gotta admit, asciilifeform still not sees what 'locking to l1' gets you there
thimbronion: << it gets you "Thus if alice and bob both have a mallory and mallory locally is locked at 1 bounce to bob, mallory with for example 1 bounce via alice ONLY will be annotated." Can argue whether or not that is a valuable heuristic, but can't say "locking to l1" doesn't get you anything -- at least so far.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 10:35:17 asciilifeform: thimbronion: gotta admit, asciilifeform still not sees what 'locking to l1' gets you there
thimbronion: Lets say pest as implemented was much larger and there were some dupe handles in the net - one approach you could take would be to get the dupes in your L1 if you cared about what they had to say, or get someone connected to the dupe in your L1.
thimbronion: Also, aside from namespaces, what are the politics of merging two large nets? How do you decide to peer your existing net to another vs. spin up a new station to join another net? Presumable if you want to join a high value net organized around a different subject you spin up a new station rather than bring in a large wholly unrelated net and end up getting blocked.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: imho this kinda thing will have to be fleshed out in the field, when actually happens
thimbronion: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $31611.87
thimbronion: whew boy here we go
asciilifeform: maybe at last the great cleansing of the scum
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-05-05 19:59:44 asciilifeform: as a rule, they're entirely happy to buy promisecoin, so can 'leverage' and 'play'.
signpost: 80% drawdown from peak is approx 13k
signpost: if this happens, fuck it, I'm still young. I'm throwing the rest of my idle net worth in.
asciilifeform: the banishment of 'institutional' scum from btcism can't happen soon enuff.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-29 22:17:22 asciilifeform: usg's entire anti-btc strategy currently seems to reduce to 'turn it into speculative hell', lest it become the obvious go-to inflation shelter
signpost: so far just looks like normal halving cycle dynamics.
asciilifeform: signpost: next halving is at 840k neh
signpost: yeah, approx may 2024
asciilifeform: i.e. ~2y from nao
asciilifeform: this wk's dip has 0 to do w/ halving afaik. but rather with the sinking of reich paperola (reich interest rate increase)
signpost: not proposing a single cause; if interest rate hell exacerbates the post-lemming correction, hot damn, I say.
asciilifeform: reich succeeded in jacking up btc-usd rate by flooding goxmarket w/ papercoin; after which exchrate stiffly correlated with all other reich paper.
thimbronion: Indeed in other crashes there was somewhere else to go besides dollars.
signpost: sure, BTC has been hilariously pegged to nasdaq for quite a while
asciilifeform: ( secondary aim of this effort was to help keep coin outta human hands and in lizard chests )
signpost: in any case, buying opportunity, just like after 2013, 2017
signpost: then supply of the real thing will clamp further.
thimbronion: Now after everyone buys a bunch of dollars: "gee thanks gonna tell my frens then print like hell"
asciilifeform: signpost: the interesting thing is that 'supply of the real thing' aint afaik detectably relevant to the exchrate. as with e.g. gold.
signpost: we got a pretty strong parabolic run after every halving.
signpost: but I could be wrong, and can always go back to making webshits.
signpost: or potatoes!
signpost: could very well be that these were only possible in the easy liquidity regime that is supposedly ending.
signpost: << saylor's first margin call is at $21k apparently, lol
billymg: will be interesting to see if they manage to crash the stock market while keeping rent, groceries, and other essentials inflated
signpost: iirc jpow recently mentioned that they didn't have "tools" for managing supply, just demand.
signpost: entirely possible they crush what paper-wealth was had, while food etc continues skyward
billymg: of the dollar? or the other side?
signpost: supply of goods, yeah
billymg: yeah, i have a feeling cost of living ain't coming back down
asciilifeform: billymg: it's a ratchet, in reich has only ever went up
billymg: i'm amused at the thought of NFLX comp reviews though "sorry, no budget for raises this year" "but my rent just went up 30%!!"
shinohai: "What food shortages? Just look at all these tasty bugs!"
billymg: i know this is a meme chart but it still feels like the most likely trajectory for btc
billymg: i also don't think the dollar is making a comeback after the civil asset forfeitured russia, even if they stop printing
billymg: they*
signpost: which doesn't really tell you how much gold for a loaf of bread.
asciilifeform: billymg: tbf the paper-gold market not existed then
asciilifeform: ( weimar period )
signpost figures also a world war ahead yet. whatever wins will decide what the bread-to-btc ratio shall be.
signpost: I'm accumulating btc because there isn't another instrument in which to preserve *any* wealth, rather than gainz!1!!
asciilifeform: tho there's also the obvious 'pile up physical usefuls'
signpost: mmmhm
signpost just bought a mighty nice rifle and a shitload of ammocoin
asciilifeform: not only 'sexy' rifles, ammo, but e.g. spare parts. e.g. asciilifeform's new pad coming to resemble soviet sub, where 3-4 spares for errything
signpost: sure, tools, consumables, gas storage, etc
signpost and wife will also be doing some traveling this year to determine whether/where to gtfo.
billymg would be happy to show signpost around here if he decides to add it to his short list
signpost: will definitely give you a shout anytime we visit CR in the future.
billymg: the pantsuit press calls the new president "trump-like" and "populist" and "blah blah blah women are wary blah blah"
thimbronion: billymg: good news about the masks
billymg: thimbronion: yeah, finally
asciilifeform: 'putin cured covid'(tm)(r)(meme)
billymg: i'm trying to find a chart of real estate priced in btc, but best i could do was a % scaled overlay with the two (in tradingview)
billymg: (which shows btc still doing its job quite well, even if only measured from 2017 to now)
verisimilitude: I should probably consider spending what remains of my savings before they become entirely worthless.
verisimilitude: I'm glad to have never considered the pursuit of money for its sake to be worthwhile.
signpost: certainly not, just a useful tool.
verisimilitude: I'd sooner call it evil than useful.
signpost: this is lazy without an alternative algorithm for organizing planet-scale human activity that isn't "uh, the smart people tell everyone what to be doing"
verisimilitude: The idea that money is ``for organizing planet-scale human activity'' is part of the evil.
signpost: yes, you have to supply another mechanism before you get to say "not that way"
verisimilitude: Violence is a more honest way, and prevents old and worthless vermin from seizing control in the same way.
verisimilitude: Say, signpost, does money work on controlling North Korea?
verisimilitude: There's a reason Israel and the US think the ``World Bank'' or whatever should control that country rather than its true rulers.
signpost: I don't see that money and violence are alternatives for one another.
signpost: often enough what constitutes money is imposed by violence.
verisimilitude: Sure, I agree.
verisimilitude: Violence requires more physical presence than money, however.
signpost: isn't even that I love money. it's that all centrally-planned economics to date have failed with successively larger craters left behind.
signpost: *economies
signpost: important to admit that bitcoin is only hypothetically decentralized. hypothesis being tested currently.
verisimilitude: There's reason to believe the USSR could've succeeded with modern computing power.
verisimilitude: Capitalism has given us the broken world of the present, signpost.
mats: microstrategy looking real good
verisimilitude: It's interesting to notice for what purpose an element of an interface exists, recognizing an edge case, only to test it and notice it doesn't handle it at all and is simply broken.
signpost: yep, I won't defend modern fiat-banking capitalism.
signpost: nor am I qualified to propose an alternative.
asciilifeform: << succeeded just fine. on 9 may 1945, when handed 'civilized world' its arse on a platter. but in '53, circle of mediocrities poisoned the king, and started 4 decades of comprador decline.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 15:00:00 verisimilitude: There's reason to believe the USSR could've succeeded with modern computing power.
asciilifeform: mats: wtf is a 'microstrategy' ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 14:51:57 signpost: isn't even that I love money. it's that all centrally-planned economics to date have failed with successively larger craters left behind.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-13 15:30:15 asciilifeform: really is an effect of industrialization, which is centralizing; result can be stalin, hitler, or fdr-flavoured, but otherwise very similar, there is no such thing as 'multiple elites' in a civilization in long term
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-17 12:16:58 asciilifeform: billymg: reichs recur historically with regularity, and the moar centralizing the tech stack at the time, the bigger the reich -- and its eventual crater. imho entirely defensible statement of fact.
asciilifeform: << may encourage verisimilitude to realize that it aint in fact run 'with money'. oligarchs aint oligarchs 'because have money', they are simply deputies of the reich (typically, tho not always, 'titled nobility') to whom freshly-printed dough is simply issued
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 14:26:25 verisimilitude: The idea that money is ``for organizing planet-scale human activity'' is part of the evil.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-11 14:33:08 asciilifeform: fwiw in asciilifeform's cosmography, a sublizard is a 'human' who directly executes orders from lizard, while exposed to 'humans' in daily context
asciilifeform: ( unauthorized, i.e. plebe, who 'suddenly' comes across a serious pile of dough -- virtually immediately 'has problems' and separated from it )
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-17 18:29:20 asciilifeform: billymg: i disagree that it's a numeric problem, even necessarily. say, martians land, and leave you 25 tonnes of refined pu as a parting gift. you will 'pass into elite' ? or perhaps not ? what do you suppose would happen ?
signpost: yes, I was commenting on the idea of a command economy which does not use money to facilitate.
asciilifeform: fwiw even sovok economy 'used money to facilitate'
verisimilitude: I know the money is truly worthless, but the claim is otherwise. Most evil in the world can be traced to religions and primitive instinct.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 17:41:56 asciilifeform: << may encourage verisimilitude to realize that it aint in fact run 'with money'. oligarchs aint oligarchs 'because have money', they are simply deputies of the reich (typically, tho not always, 'titled nobility') to whom freshly-printed dough is simply issued
thimbronion: verisimilitude: afaict there isn't any notion of good or evil *outside of* religion
verisimilitude: Mammon exists, regardless.
verisimilitude: I usually see that from the religious, thimbronion.
verisimilitude: I disagree.
thimbronion: verisimilitude: or anyone that has stuidied philosophy
verisimilitude: Everyone cunning wants a monopoly on something, such as morality.
signpost: verisimilitude: define evil.
verisimilitude: Evil is opposed to good.
signpost: I do not have infinite patience for persuading you to communicate sanely.
verisimilitude: Defining good is more difficult.
verisimilitude: I know it when I see it, signpost.
verisimilitude: What answer should I give?
signpost: one contextualized sufficiently that I don't have to ask for each individual piece of the world-model that emitted it.
shinohai: Mammon exists but we just get un mamón instead.
verisimilitude: Mutilating children is evil; destroying valuable work is evil; wasting time on games such as making money is evil; stupidity is evil.
verisimilitude: By ``wasting time on games such as making money'', I refer to banking and the like, not normal work.
shinohai: Valuable work is subjective though. I'm sure covertress thought "kryptoncoin" was valuable before I rekt it.
signpost: I see the finite span of one's time running through all these.
verisimilitude: Killing isn't evil, especially when killing evil.
signpost: if the child didn't lose something irreparably by being mutilated, whatever evil is, it would be less so if this were the case, eh?
signpost: so finiteness and also irreversibility of time.
verisimilitude: Sure; we live in an evil reality.
signpost: the bare assertion of "evil" is likely to bounce of others, given it most likely indicates "submit to me" and zilch else.
signpost: reality being evil makes no sense, as your "evil" depends on the definition of "good".
signpost: where's the good go if reality is evil?
verisimilitude: I don't know.
verisimilitude: Perhaps good is only in the minds of some men.
signpost: good and evil itself is definitely only in the minds of men, which doesn't diminish it.
signpost: makes plenty of sense to standardize the ways in which we reason about what actions we'll take.
signpost: or how the hell to coordinate? and if we'll not coordinate, what reason to have language?
signpost: one might find things which strengthen that process of coordination in line with historic concepts of good, and those which destroy it evil.
signpost operates from the notion that the web-of-trust wasn't recently invented, is intrinsic to human behavior.
signpost: it's one of the algorithms that drive that coordination.
verisimilitude: I can agree.
signpost: why continue to coordinate, and not die instead? I'm fine with saying that it's because I don't know what the hell the answer to that question is, and only one of the two alternatives might eventually yield an answer.
signpost: perhaps in this framing good is what gives the coordinating human object as many cracks at the unanswerables as possible
mats: asciilifeform: michael saylor's bizint firm that holds the most bitmaize of any public corp
mats: mentioned several times in log now
asciilifeform: a ty mats . found
asciilifeform: ( even found thread lol )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-23 13:46:00 asciilifeform: punkman: right; so q is, whether microstrategy et al are qualitatively different kinds of organization with somehow infinite secret-keeping ability
crtdaydreams: I just found out that for whatever reason Nvidia proprietary drivers require rust lmao
crtdaydreams: not to mention all the systemdisms that I tried to remove in portage.mask/crapolade
crtdaydreams: settling for removing them in useflags so it should only be nvidia shitware that actually uses them
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: hm how does a binturd require rust ?
crtdaydreams: asciilifeform: i have no idea
crtdaydreams: it won't emerge without it, that's for sure
asciilifeform scrapped last nvidia board yr+ ago, so nfi
crtdaydreams: I just got a 3060
crtdaydreams: it's interesting, they've managed to lock hashrate so miners can't use the card
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: iirc was cracked month or so after release
crtdaydreams: really?
crtdaydreams: might try and find the crack, wonder about the possibility of bricking
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: thread
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-20 11:18:22 asciilifeform: punkman: cracked less than month later
crtdaydreams: oh wow ok
crtdaydreams: I'm on rev. 1 board, so it's possible it might work
crtdaydreams: dun really have a use for it though
crtdaydreams: asciilifeform: you reckon it'd be alright to USE="-cmake -llvm" and I won't have much trouble?
crtdaydreams because ofc cmake + llvm are deps for nvidia binturd
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: i've genuinely nfi re latest board. had a nvs450, it used straight binturd (not via portage)
asciilifeform: (on another box had nvs510, and ditto)
crtdaydreams: asciilifeform: ah. hm. it might be forced deps in portage (even tho they're not actually req'd for driver to work)
signpost: go read the ebuild; it's just a text file.
signpost: no reason to treat those as behind the mysterious curtain.
thimbronion: Some "stablecoin" is currently at .79 usd
signpost: aw come on; that's a c+
crtdaydreams: signpost: re ebuild; gotta wait for compilation to finish lol
signpost: how do you figure looking at the contents of that file will do anything to whatever you're building?
crtdaydreams: signpost: huh? wdym? well I could modify it to remove irrelevant deps.
crtdaydreams: mebbe I misunderstand something.
signpost: yes, the part where I said read.
crtdaydreams: eeehhhh, then i gotta depclean and back at square one
crtdaydreams: even then, it might not work
signpost: I have zero fucking idea what you're talking about, bud.
signpost: vi -p /var/db/repos/gentoo/x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers/nvidia-drivers-*.ebuild
thimbronion: backed by a shitcoin currently down 49%
signpost: thimbronion: the non-asciilifeform cardano is also about to launch an algorithmic shitcoin iirc
crtdaydreams: signpost: I was doing that. C-c'd my build, reading nao
signpost: crtdaydreams: emerge -ta nvidia-drivers
signpost: the tree flag should make it clear why the thing wants rust or w/e
signpost: might need --emptytree also for the full picture
signpost: looks like maybe rtkit -> polkit -> spidermonkey -> rust
crtdaydreams: would be ideal if I could install nvidia drivers w/ out polkit
crtdaydreams: or rtkit or any rubbish
crtdaydreams: would it be fine to modifiy the ebuild to get rid of the crap, or is that most likely to break things?
signpost: this ebuild just installs their binwad. I would probably instead go get the thing from and see what their installer bitches about, if anything
signpost: when you get tired of things changing out from under you, go get asciilifeform's dulap for a gentoo, or help us get X onto pentacle.
crtdaydreams: ^ I was going of billmg's guide which is a softcore dulap, so I've got parts of the config like package.mask/crapolade, etc. I'll end up going through the tarball at some point
signpost: ah cool, so that is dulap.
signpost bbl, bike ride
billymg: crtdaydreams: what do you plan on doing with a 3060 other than gayming? (not that there's anything wrong with that). and if gaming, what do you care what OS it's on?
crtdaydreams: billymg: AI
signpost: fwiw on my 3090 box I just run bleeding edge gentoo. it's a nintendo, runs steam.
billymg: ^ exactly
crtdaydreams: I dunno if I'll play games, I lost enjoyment in those things a while back and I haven't really *played* any in >1.5yr
billymg: crtdaydreams: when i first got here i similarly stumbled trying to go down this path of "want latest and greatest, but also hygienic" -- was quickly told by several people here that the best approach is really just separate boxes for separate applications
crtdaydreams: billymg: yeah, I've mostly gathered. I would like to know if (and why) there is anything against virtualization?
billymg: even asciilifeform admits (or once admitted) to using crapple
bitbot: (trilema) 2018-02-02 asciilifeform: phunphakt, ~halfthetime asciilifeform is on an icraptoy of whatever kind
crtdaydreams: I.e. KVM, QEMU, etc, (none of that virtualbox crap)
crtdaydreams: ftr would like to say I have nothing against gayming, I just feel bad playing em.
billymg: crtdaydreams: can't say re: virtualization
crtdaydreams: I might be able to turn a pi3b i've had shelved for enternity into a toilet box
crtdaydreams: but as it stands, all my machines are 'toilet boxes'
crtdaydreams: would also like to mention that I have been thinking about logotron, and I think I've determined the point that one can consider proggy "finished"
billymg has also been having fun lately going down the emulation gaming rabbit hole, currently with "dolphin" (gamecube/wii emulation) and pcsx2 (ps2). great way to get a large library of games on linux
crtdaydreams: contextual search; logs parsed realtime by NLP and metadata attached, then one can search logs through different scopes.
billymg: crtdaydreams: have you stood one up yet?
billymg: even if just locally
crtdaydreams: billymg: nah, that's just a thought.
crtdaydreams: I have a few projects I'm committed to I need to finish first.
crtdaydreams: one is proverbial
crtdaydreams: one is proverbial 'fountain of fiatola' and moar quality-of-life things
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-11 03:30:39 crtdaydreams: I admit I have been working towards a potential ``fountain of fiatola'' but like all investments, it takes a pretty hefty initial investment.
crtdaydreams: I'll be writing about it on mah blog when I've got something "working"
crtdaydreams: also re: emulation, have you played with hardware emu, i.e. fpga?
crtdaydreams: for things like z80, scheme-cpu etc.
billymg: crtdaydreams: no, have not
crtdaydreams: billymg: ack. also sorry, I don't mean to ramble, just get excited about these things.
verisimilitude: I use dedicated game consoles when I play video games I didn't also create. It's great: I put the game in, turn it on, and it fucking plays the game and nothing else.
verisimilitude: One of the few things computers usually do about as well as they should is play video games, but that's more disheartening than anything.
whaack: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.128s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.153s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687
watchglass: : Alive: (0.148s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=735687 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.249s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.316s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735571
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.397s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735571
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.622s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687
watchglass: : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.442s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735687
watchglass: : Alive: (0.167s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=588189 (Operator: whaack)
whaack: trb a few blocks/hours behind heathen nodes again
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
billymg: 1 2 3 4: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-07 01:29:22 signpost: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. << got this after adding "| sort" and doing /src/pbuild install bitcoind --nodeps --rebuild
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-07 01:47:30 shinohai: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-07 01:51:09 thimbronion: With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
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