signpost: oddly neither does mine.
vex: I was thinking more like tinder cdd; location based produce swaps
vex: when the food runs out, someone will have some
vex: might not be able to solve for global barbarians, but locally
vex: some old bloke got done russling cattle in the nt. these are modern times
vex: he's been at it long enough that it must've ben worth calling the cops
vex: beind 70 is no excuse. we're all on this rock at the same time
vex: back in the day he'd be skinned alive. the paper thin natuture of the dermal layer notwithstanding
vex: I'd like to see someone bust him out of jail just to put some hooks in his ankles
vex: you've gotta be dirt poor to get away with any form of theft, even then, you're dicing with the devil
vex: a mans house is his castle. it was defined in testnet
vex: it's mabo, it's the constitution
vex: and the people consider it to be a thing
vex: also, pest meets @ sea will work splendidly
vex: i'm reminded of kevin costner: our business is done if yuo don't have any resin or sail you can part with
vex: if bingo doesn't pop up, i'll cover his shit until we know he hasn't jumped into an orcas mouth
vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYj6c7IsVzY come up for air cunt
vex: i'll buy your debt for nothing
vex: nah alf will give you time
vex: in case youy missed it, the cutty sark was mentioned in there
vex: ie the last of the windjammers and you need your whole crew
vex: is it too late? has bingo fallen from the yard arm?
vex: perhaps he council for amber heard. one more crazy whench b4 bed
vex: if you're fucking amber heard I will not cover your bills sir
vex: yeah, things you know and you can't say
vex: bingo's off the reservation
vex: chili too
vex: big love
vex: it's okay
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-04#1099756 << there are (5) hot new potatoes in your area!~ click [here] for more info!
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-04 01:15:46 vex: I was thinking more like tinder cdd; location based produce swaps
crtdaydreams: it's not a bad idea for a softcore apocalypse.
crtdaydreams: i.e. major supply chain disruptions extending for months or even years on end
adlai|textonly: what vex described sounds more like the Venus Project than Tinder; and asciilifeform's comments about the Dunbar Number are quite apt, although it might well be the case that the exact constant takes a different value for automated electronic stations.
adlai|textonly: e.g., I wonder how long organisations along the lines of the United Nations last, with a membership count that has exceeded Dunbar's Number; the enforcement of protocols obviously reduces the range of acceptable behaviors, and while this may cause fewer outsiders to wish membership, it probably also reduces the outwards drift.
adlai|textonly: note that the UN never says to delegates, "Bad diplomat! No soup for you!", only issues length fishwrap and limits membership to various councils.
adlai|textonly: s/length/$0y/ ; e.g., periodic surveys of human rights violations, periodic reminders of which nations are not signatories to various conventions, etc.
adlai|textonly: if you want a mental model for Pest hardware, think about walkie-talkies, or CB radios, except with the property that the channel selector can be set arbitrarily.
adlai|textonly: can you use this for selling gin in the gold rush and buying potatos during a famine? sure, if there are counterparties.
adlai|textonly: asciilifeform: I'd love to read your comments, emotionally charged may they be, about theorem-proving software; with the context that I'm considering augmenting my independent mathematics study with 'teaching' to the computer, because I have no human students upon whom to practice.
adlai|textonly: I have at various points waded ankle-deep into the documentation and tutorials of various mathematical programs, and quickly realised that the distinct domains were sufficiently deep for such an excursion to be a journey of its own, rather than than a mere detour.
adlai|textonly: and, I recall you mentioning that you've worked with one or more of these in your career; thus, my question.
adlai is no less 8th-bit-challenged; only reducing burden for skimmers of tab completed text
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-04 05:11:09 adlai|textonly: I have at various points waded ankle-deep into the documentation and tutorials of various mathematical programs, and quickly realised that the distinct domains were sufficiently deep for such an excursion to be a journey of its own, rather than than a mere detour.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-11-29 asciilifeform: zx2c4: point being, i don't practice haskellism. and nit from being illiterate yokel who has nfi how. it so happens that i know how. but consider the whole approach to be braindamaged .
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-04-12 asciilifeform: spyked: in re proof machines, i'm much moar interested in items like ACL2 , where you can affix your hand-written program to a hand-written proof of correctness in a mechanically-reliable way
dulapbot: Logged on 2019-12-27 03:02:05 asciilifeform: mike_c: i went with ultra-pedantic 'by hand' proofs, raher than sparkism, for the reason that sparkism, like other mecha-proof systems, aint 'free', the various nudges the compiler demands, conceptually 'weigh' something, and interfere w/ 'fits in head'.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-01 14:26:53 asciilifeform: spark has serious problems (bloat; disallows recursion; others)
asciilifeform: ( ftr the fundamental problem w/ program-embedded proofisms )
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-05-08 19:12:16 asciilifeform: on top of this, i've yet to witness a mecha-proof thing that doesn't turn 1 pg of coad into 40pg of barfola.
asciilifeform: ... whereas if not embedded, gotta be coupled w/ the proggy ~somehow~
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-25#1098759 I meant to mention this then, but I believe my hammer to win on style, certainly.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-25 15:42:13 shinohai: "So who has the better hammer, Lowes or Home Depot?"
verisimilitude: The realization, adlai, is that dunbar's number can be augmented in the same way man's memory can be augmented.
asciilifeform suspects that verisimilitude misinterprets the notion behind dunbar's number
asciilifeform: ... it aint about 'typical human head can only remember N names'. tho may be fact. is rather about 'typical human has the meatware to give a rat's arse about N people'. (often enuff N , in modern degenerate anthill dweller, ~= 0)
asciilifeform: ... but in no case N > coupla hund.
verisimilitude: I don't have to be some degenerate bugman to not care about others.
verisimilitude: I suppose.
verisimilitude: Now we reach what ``giving a rat's arse'' or ``caring'' means.
asciilifeform: variously interpreted, but generally 'see as playing character rather than npc'
verisimilitude: Alright.
verisimilitude: Sure, in other IRC channels, I certainly don't believe everyone else to be alive as I'm.
verisimilitude: So, a few dozen, sure.
thehorrors: [http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-05-04#1099811] << I wonder if something like [http://kelp.sourceforge.net] could help with that
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-04 12:19:02 asciilifeform: ... whereas if not embedded, gotta be coupled w/ the proggy ~somehow~
thehorrors: On the other hand, I alway saw the extensive approach (e.g. test coverage) to be more transparent (e.g. sqlite autismo seems to be pretty effective)
asciilifeform: thehorrors: tests have 0 to do with subj
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-03-11 asciilifeform: per dijkstra's 'tests reveal presence of bugs, but never their absence'
verisimilitude: Tests don't work, thehorrors.
asciilifeform: nor does 'coupled' refer to 'embedded in comments'
thehorrors: asciilifeform, I was thinking someting /like/ (conceptually) kelp, so not the comments exactly, but the separation of proof from source code. A separate linked entity.
verisimilitude: Consider how I write machine code: The program is entirely separate from its metadata, and both are entirely separate from the article extensively documenting them.
verisimilitude: This is the way to do it, certainly.
thehorrors: so what do you think about something like sqlite approach? do you think none of their testing works? I have huge respect for Dijkstra, but I don't think his remark means or proofs that "tests don't work"
thehorrors: iterative revelation of the presence of bugs may be an easier approach towards quality than proving the absence - is all I am trying to say
verisimilitude: I don't use sqlite directly, and don't care.
verisimilitude: The silly C language programmers love finding holes to plug.
verisimilitude: They never think to eliminate them entirely.
verisimilitude: The criticize Rust in their stupid justifications, and oddly never mention Ada.
verisimilitude: They criticize, that is.
thehorrors: I find the study of such projects useful nevertheless.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-04#1099837 The only way to write good software is to have it be correct and able to be fast and then have it made to actually be fast. Most software isn't correct, but is able to be fast, and is then made to be slow in an infinitesimal stepping towards correctness.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-04 20:52:27 thehorrors: iterative revelation of the presence of bugs may be an easier approach towards quality than proving the absence - is all I am trying to say
verisimilitude: I find masturbation useful, but I don't think others would necessarily want to watch.
verisimilitude: I understand how this looks, thehorrors.
verisimilitude: The sqlite authors are respected and experienced, whereas I'm not.
verisimilitude: I should be wrong then, right?
verisimilitude: Enough people can't be wrong for decades, right?
thehorrors: heh, you are putting words in my mouth. I am neither interested in promoting sqlite specifically nor trying to evaluate your proficiency. I said what I said - I find things interesting and worthy of examination, especially if they are not orthodox
verisimilitude: Surely I hit close to the mark, right?
thehorrors: I suppose I am still too new here not to be percieved as the guy who is trying to fuck with you and not simply someone who is trying to engage in productive discussion
verisimilitude: Don't feel that way; I fuck with everyone.
verisimilitude: Still, that surely hit close to the mark, I suppose.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-04#1099846 <<< the former is just sad, the latter is spot on.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-04 21:01:07 verisimilitude: I find masturbation useful, but I don't think others would necessarily want to watch.
shinohai: $vwap
shinohai: $vwap
busybot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 39137.50 USD
thehorrors: verisimilitude, which one exactly? My alleged hidden message that Hipp will eat you for breakfast?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-04 21:06:29 thehorrors: I suppose I am still too new here not to be percieved as the guy who is trying to fuck with you and not simply someone who is trying to engage in productive discussion
thehorrors: This made me think of the "intelligence-adjusted Dunbar's number": the number of people we are willing to recognize as "playing characters", not the number of people we are cognitively capable of recognizing as such.
thehorrors: or rather "compatibility-adjusted" maybe? I bet there is a distribution: people who are cognitively capable of fitting more than 200 people have inversely proportional predisposition to do so
verisimilitude: Sure.
thehorrors: However, if you delegate your memory of trust to systems like WoT - I bet it can scale actually. Exceptions apply, ofc
thehorrors: But does it need to scale? The more I think about that the less trivial this question becomes