Results 1 ... 151 found in all logged channels for 'f:asci openbsd'
(pest) bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-04-10 22:11:22 phf[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025469 << afaiu you have to figure out how to run whatever latest java first, then you can run the thing as a jar. but i don't know if that applies to most recent clion. i have e.g. intellij running on openbsd, which is what's known as "not for t
(pest) phf[asciilifeform]: i have openbsd running on my m1 (which was the original reason for even buying it, since long forgotten
(pest) phf[asciilifeform]: yes, ther are allegedly hacks™, kind of how you can run openbsd on an m1 also, but why not relax with a cool refreshing santori instead?
(pest) phf[asciilifeform]: i wrote a bunch of awk, but every system seems to have non-standard, incompatible extensions. gnu awk had unicode since forever, but it's also the only one that supports networking. openbsd has its own version. kernighan is fixing "one true awk", which is what comes stock with debian and macos
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform has 1 remaining openbsd box -- toshiba 'libretto'. was the 1 and only thing could get reasonably runnable on it, as support for truly ancient irons evaporated from linux long ago
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform got nowhere near as far as phf with practical use of openbsd, barfed rather early in the process
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform from cursory look into openbsdism remembers concluding 'same c liquishit hairball as errywhere else'
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform recalls similar frustration of mp, who fed (moar stingily, even) the openbsd d00d, who then wouldn't answer mail
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform found yrs ago that openbsd -- colonized by fungus and abandoned all attempts to salvage
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: ( not to mention, if you want e.g. emacs, you'll be force-fed debus etc )
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: apparently he did mention it once and no moar
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: afaik to this day there is not a reliable port of trb to openbsd. (and not because no one tried)
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: to add extra lulz, without any 'kiss and tell' , i.e. per d00d's own www -- http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/10/unboxing-and-set-up-of-nosuchlabs-fuckgoats-on-macos-openbsd-linux/ -- seems like we sold him only 2... so he went and picked up 3 moar, so that he could this
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884066 << aand to properly round off the thread, that box nao runs openbsd ( which worx 100% ) , for nao.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's an 'openbsd-branded' item, 'libressl', quite similar to the hairball carried along in trb but weighing slightly less
(trilema) asciilifeform: same as openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/contributors.html << aaaaand openbsd ~immediately~ listed 'pineapple fund'. and guess who not listed at all, to this day.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( notably this proved impossible , without complete manual control over ~everything~, under openbsd. as per old thread. )
(trilema) asciilifeform: danielpbarron: do you have a depoetteringization recipe for openbsd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: losure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end of an embargo.'
(trilema) asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: “In the open source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a month, that is very discouraging”. Note that I wrote and included a suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative disc
(trilema) asciilifeform: went away on linux ( and apparently openbsd ) from locks patch, and that was the end of the thread
(trilema) asciilifeform: mod6, phf didja see 168kisms on openbsd?
(trilema) asciilifeform: i had a year+ of unsuccess with openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform sets the final bozo bit on openbsd and everyone involved
(trilema) asciilifeform: i'm about to attempt openbsd gnat
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686184 << there were experiments with openbsd, but iirc it is not a currently supported os. so answer is linux unless you're willing to port.
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'To maintain transparency, I am not a OpenBSD Foundation director, so you'd have to ask them... Encouragingly, I have heard discussion about some policy for public recognition of large donations, and I suspect that would handily cross the threshold' << lol!!
(trilema) asciilifeform: even claims to work in openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-18#1671888 << oughta ask phf, perhaps he has this pill ( iirc has both openbsd and crapple in active use )
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'Uninitialized memory has been used as a source of entropy to seed random number generators in OpenSSL, DragonFly BSD, OpenBSD, and elsewhere.10 If accessing an indeterminate value is undefined behavior, however, compilers may optimize out these expressions, resulting in predictable values.' << bonus lol
(trilema) asciilifeform: ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy'
(trilema) asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other excavations, https://www.security.nl/posting/505769/Random+Bit+Generator+voor+zelfbouw >> 'Het ontwerp is volledig open source, het geleverde product is te verifiëren zodat je kunt zien dat er niets is toegevoegd of weggelaten, de randomization is wiskundig verifieerbaar. Er zijn drivers voor eigenlijk alle gangbare operating systems, zelfs voor OpenBSD, en dat voor een prijs van USD 40. Die onderbouwing zie ik n
(trilema) asciilifeform: in other noose, nobody on planet3 seems to know how to disable serialport flowcontrol on openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform does not know, because his only openbsd box has a couplea cm of dust on it, and also lacks usb ports
(trilema) asciilifeform: looks like mircea_popescu was quite right to tune out openbsd when he had.
(trilema) asciilifeform: https://www.openbsdstore.com seems to offer cd. strictly 5.9.
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'Only two remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!' -- openbsd www. lulzy.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i could use a usable openbsd box, for instance.
(trilema) asciilifeform: microshit's sponsorship did not ~immediately~ turn openbsd to liquishit, but it is foolish to expect that it can withstand infinitely many years of it with 0 symptoms
(trilema) asciilifeform: and i thought my openbsd 'libretto' that loses its x11 frame buffer was rotten
(trilema) asciilifeform: from what phf has described ( and from my own experiments ) it is not clear to me that openbsd is salvageable .
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: does static linking work on openbsd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform still has a 'libretto' with openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, linux as we have it now is a direly and fatally centralized, in the worst possible sense, item: to the extent it runs on in-production iron at all, it is because some stingy but present support exists from the vendors, and from the megaconglomerates (rathead et al). if withdrawn, linux turns into openbsd overnight.
(trilema) asciilifeform: to briefly revisit my actual complaint re openbsd -- if i want emacs but NOT dbus, i am reduced to, more or less, 'make own unix', rather than using openbsd as such.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i soured almost totally on openbsd when i labouriously set up a box, with all of the proggies i rely on for daily use, and found that emacs COULD NOT be de-poetteringized without eschewing the ports system entirely
(trilema) asciilifeform: (rather like what happened to openbsd -- d00d gets tired, 'eager young thing' steps up)
(trilema) asciilifeform blows dust off openbsd 'libretto'
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: lemme get this straight, ~all~ pthread proggies hosed on openbsd?!
(trilema) asciilifeform: is openbsd in fact 'drepperized' after all ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'of note, previously static compilation on OpenBSD resulted in segmentation fault. this is due to libpthread not being fully linked into the final static binary...' << what did this dig lead to , phf ?
(trilema) asciilifeform unfamiliar with disk crypto on openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: hoose to use corporate-maintained tools like OpenSSL, which are deeply compromised. Do you think the people responsible for HeartBleed were held accountable, and fundamental changes were made? Guess again. It’s simply ignored by most of Linux. (You’ll notice real UNIXes like OpenBSD did not ignore it and have begun serious changes. Yet even there, it took such a serious, obvious exploit for them to see the engineering problem.)'
(trilema) asciilifeform: (e.g., gentoo, openbsd)
(trilema) asciilifeform: who, e.g., works 'round the clock to make sure that, e.g., microshit, is heard in the openbsd throne room, and mircea_popescu is not
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've not yet succeeded in setting up a 100% de-drepperized openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493559 << now install openbsd so BOTH ports can die!111
(trilema) asciilifeform: wai wut, openbsd has no stable abi at all ?!!!
(trilema) asciilifeform: anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: because, among other things, i mistakenly blamed openbsd for this.
(trilema) asciilifeform: as happened with, famously, openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: nowhere, he got openbsd'd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i run openbsd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: now the other thing about openbsd is the incident with theo and that microshit flunkie
(trilema) asciilifeform: in the case of openbsd, it is that virtually all of the major ports pull in dbus.
(trilema) asciilifeform: a torn out kernel is not 'openbsd', it is bsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: there is no openbsd sans the ports.
(trilema) asciilifeform: !s openbsd dbus
(trilema) asciilifeform: do you see the point of the openbsd cd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: in principle, i like the lightweight, pedigreed, and 'hackable on' bsd family, e.g., netbsd. but imho openbsd is something that probably needs to be helped die
(trilema) asciilifeform: thing is, at least the way i understood it, the whole ~point~ of openbsd was as a fortress against poetteringization. and it appears to be in ruins, based on above
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384135 << i have an openbsd box. but i haven't booted it in over a year, and can't bring myself to. because it is FUCKING LOATHESOME:
(trilema) asciilifeform: pretty much every single 'openbsdism' i've so far run into screams braindamage
(trilema) asciilifeform: everything i've so far experienced with openbsd suggests that
(trilema) asciilifeform: openbsd won't run linux elf, like netbsd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: is this the openbsd-on-old-mac thing ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: i do not understand why openbsd is revered today
(trilema) asciilifeform: my experience with openbsd for daily life has not been very satisfying
(trilema) asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have an openbsd box here but it will not build trb, not enough ram (+swap even)
(trilema) asciilifeform: pressing of cd was perhaps the ONE good idea in openbsd
(trilema) ascii_field: 'My OpenBSD 5.7 CD arrived with a green label affixed to the shipping
(trilema) ascii_field: does openbsd have a ~meaningful~ existence apart from 'what de raadt does' ?
(trilema) ascii_field: and was mircea_popescu's however-many btc for openbsd sent to the phoundation, or to de raadt ?
(trilema) ascii_field: trinque: back to openbsd, would you personally be willing to use an os with nonpublic source ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: ended up with barely usable openbsd. 500mSec or so delay on fopen() !!! because no ram left over (from the 64M) for disk caching
(trilema) ascii_field: for something touted as 'de-shitgnomized' unix, openbsd is uncommonly eager to pull the crud along
(trilema) ascii_field: and until it builds x11 emacs without dbus and related idiocy, openbsd is WORTHLESS to me.
(trilema) ascii_field: trinque: i played with openbsd for a while and then got fed up with the dependency resolver retardation.
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you had a favourite book re: openbsd i recall ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: somebody (mod6?) had it on openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: i have not personally tried openbsd on them. but note that if you buy the 'apu' model, must also buy the metal tin. there are no screwholes for heat sink. it is pressed on by the board mounting upside-down in its native tin case.
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: you may be the first to achieve openbsd build! consider posting recipe
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: openbsd is gcc-based
(trilema) asciilifeform: ;;later tell decimation before you ceremonially burn that thing, or put openbsd on it, etc. consider posting the u-boot partition to #b-a warez (talk to kakobrekla?)
(trilema) asciilifeform: jurov: openbsd is solving a rather different problem, 'waltzing' it on variety of archs
(trilema) asciilifeform: (when i do the thing that requires the ada, it won't be happening on openbsd. or gentoo)
(trilema) ascii_field: a virginal gentoo box is imho presently the gold standard of non-retarded computing (at least on linux. could argue with openbsd, etc)
(trilema) asciilifeform: freeborn: try the mac os build instructions posted recently, these may work on openbsd
(trilema) ascii_field: but iirc the device support of openbsd is a subset of netbsd's
(trilema) asciilifeform: nubbins`: any changes -not- in common with openbsd ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: though a 'sun ray' might make an interesting openbsd box
(trilema) asciilifeform: two leads: 1) port whatever's in netbsd to openbsd to get it going on pogo
(trilema) asciilifeform: ^ assuming this was a recent openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: danielpbarron: iirc, openbsd will not see the nand flash on the 'pogo.'
(trilema) asciilifeform: openbsd << it should build anywhere the dependencies build, theoretically. nothing linux-specific in there, much less distro-specific.
(trilema) asciilifeform: openbsd is in some ways a 'hair shirt' (abolished loadable kmods, for instance)
(trilema) asciilifeform: nubbins`: i have 'openbsd' on one of these. also a little sluggish, though not as dreadful as 'raspberry'
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc there is an experimental openbsd port as well.
(trilema) asciilifeform: emacs aficionados! turns out, openbsd has a separate 'emacs21' port, of that version, sans all of the retardation and shitgnomery
(trilema) asciilifeform is at this moment roto-rooting out gnome tendrils from an openbsd box
(trilema) asciilifeform: not that someone could not, hypothetically, link a blob into an openbsd kernel and try to persuade folks to use it. but the result would probably be: laughter.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i can easily understand now why theo de raadt zapped support for loadable kernel modules in openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: i doubt that the openbsd devs were so direly impoverished that they agreed to serve enemy, knowing what he was
(trilema) asciilifeform: cisions, they are now gone from OpenBSD. And now they miss it. So now, all these guys who work for the same company have started a fork. And it is directed by the guy who hired them in the first place. From where I stand, that is the truth. Yet none of that is in that article, because the truth hurts, doesn't it guys?"
(trilema) asciilifeform: lopers in a sneaky and underhanded way. They were told, oh i forget they were "asked", to not tell anyone else in OpenBSD that this was happening, probably because people "including Theo" would be upset. Funny thing is, I've never been upset about the 20+ OpenBSD and ex-OpenBSD developers who now work for google. Previously, many of those developers were in critical positions in the development team. As they were suddenly hire
(trilema) asciilifeform: d with such terms and conditions, they became more scarce in OpenBSD --perhaps because they suddenly got real busy with work, but also to avoid telling others that this was happening. Various projects lagged. To avoid telling a lie, they instead chose to not tell the truth. It had effects. It was dishonest of them to not tell their co-developers that they were creating vacuums in the development process. So because of those de
(trilema) asciilifeform: There was a discussion about this on the OpenBSD misc mailing archives back in 2012: http://marc.info/?t=133961305400003&r=1&w=2 Theo's initial response to the thread, which may help illuminate the situation, was: "Except for the fact that it is bullshit. They started the fork because they got kicked out because one developer (Marco) hired 5 other developers for his startup company, and attempted to hire around 10 other deve
(trilema) asciilifeform: a recent openbsd (what i eventually settled on for that machine) consumes virtually the whole 64m.
(trilema) asciilifeform could stomach if necessary for openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: if vm, why not openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i rarely if at all run openbsd tho << now we know, he has personal os and btc apparatus! with alien technology.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to upload a favourite and signed openbsd installer? then we roll tonight.
(trilema) asciilifeform: who, outside of openbsd, has good crypto-discipline ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: jurov: i've a small collection of various cheapo 'arm' boards, just like everyone. the 'pi' collects dust. did recently get openbsd running on another one (beagle?) recently.
(trilema) asciilifeform: interesting that, afaik, not one one those pieces breathed a word about why openbsd
(trilema) asciilifeform: openbsd has 'apm' util out of the box.
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: gentoo, debian, freebsd, openbsd, all booted
(trilema) asciilifeform: openbsd still eats most of the 64M though.
(trilema) asciilifeform: solution = openbsd + 'plop' (boot manager that laughs at idiot 8GB limit of old bios)
(trilema) asciilifeform: seems like openbsd won't even try to install /boot to a separate mbr part.
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'openbsd, running on dead squirrel in shoebox since 19xx...'
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