Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-04-27 | 2015-04-29 →
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40850 @ 0.00029738 = 12.148 BTC [-]
assbot: We fly because we’re loved. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46800 @ 0.00029731 = 13.9141 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mircea_popescu who da fuck sees furious 7 indeed.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: when i called my friends up on saturday night, i could barely believe my ears, but went and had a good laugh anyways.
pete_dushenski: at the very least, i knew it would provide useful fodder for teh contravex cannon ;)
pete_dushenski: the final chase scene, in imax at least, was a complete blur though.
pete_dushenski: my eyes are used to plaintext! not that whizbang kids shit.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell kakobrekla still nothing on log1 eh.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76200 @ 0.00030409 = 23.1717 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: "Over the weekend, a BitGo user reported on Reddit that he had lost 85 BTC while using the BitGo Legacy Wallet Recovery Tool. The user reported that, while the tool reported it would send his entire balance of about 102 BTC to the target address, in fact it only sent 16 BTC to the target address, resulting in a whopping mining fee of 86 BTC being paid."
pete_dushenski: "The root cause of the problem occurred during the output value serialization step when the redeem transaction was constructed. During the process of converting the number into bytes for use in the transaction, bitwise operators were used in this old version of the code, which converted the output value (in satoshis) to a 32 bit integer, causing an integer overflow and truncating the output of 10227087437 satosh
pete_dushenski: is (102.27 btc) to 1637152845 satoshis (16.37 btc)."
assbot: BitGo, Inc. | Recovery Tool Lost Funds Incident: Post-Mortem - BitGo, Inc. ... ( )
pete_dushenski: and here i was, ignorant as the day i was born, thinking that bitgo's stupidity could be summarised with 'multisig' as per
assbot: BitGo Multisig: A Stranger, His Friend, and You | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: turns out that the waters runneth deep over there.
assbot: More Trouble For Bryan Micon | ... ( )
cazalla: watching these hilarious riot vids on 8chan but all the nigs throwing rubbish bins and at best, bricks at the police.. you'd think they were at the point where it'd be open season on the boys in blue
cazalla: seeing nignogs are only too happy to fire on other nignogs, imma say their heart really isn't in this riot and it'll peter out.. it's *not* happening, sorry /pol/ lol
cazalla: pete_dushenski, it's all about multisignature technology
assbot: Multisignature Technology - YouTube ... ( )
cazalla: <<< pumpkin seeds are not that bad, few pop up now and again in the compost, some in the garden but i find tomato seeds the most problematic, those fuckers pop up by the dozen and i'm always pulling em out
assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 21:51:03; BingoBoingo: <cazalla> doesn't like that".. same woman who thought pumpkins grew under the ground lol << pumpkin seeds are the best vandalism
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72000 @ 0.00030418 = 21.901 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: cazalla: ya the riot seems a bit, well, soft. at least in the reuters photos.
pete_dushenski: mostly doods stocking up on raided bogroll
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94187 @ 0.00029547 = 27.8294 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61200 @ 0.00029014 = 17.7566 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19803 @ 0.00029008 = 5.7445 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00029008 = 5.7146 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 02:58:00; asciilifeform: davout might also appreciate ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13975 @ 0.00029034 = 4.0575 BTC [+]
scoopbot_revived: News! Warrick County Prosecutor's Office Cover Up Ransomware Infection URL:
assbot: Warrick County Prosecutor's Office Cover Up Ransomware Infection | ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00029034 = 5.8068 BTC [+]
davout: <<< not what i get in the bundled with the release tarball
assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 17:17:42; ben_vulpes: << didn't we cut a version of that used foundation-hosted tarballs of all of the above?
davout: assets is asleep, let's post some french guitar
assbot: Angelo Debarre et Ludovic Beie Douce Ambiance Entre Amis 2004 - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00029034 = 1.5678 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.00029008 = 8.2383 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19160 @ 0.00029034 = 5.5629 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30993 @ 0.00029034 = 8.9985 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17122 @ 0.00028872 = 4.9435 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00029894 = 5.7247 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: A new Lordship List ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: mike_c take davout for instance now if I click on timestamp, i see "Feb. 16, 2015He combats malpidity on the forums." as the penultimate entry, between Jan. 27 and Feb 3, 2011
assbot: davout WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( )
mircea_popescu: don't tell me my local js is broken o.O
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37820 @ 0.00028807 = 10.8948 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: ;;later tell pete_dushenski thats mps thing
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: from the svg : "stroke-linecap:butt"
mircea_popescu: seems appropriate.
kakobrekla: you wanna get log1 fixed ?
mircea_popescu: am i right, l2 went from 544 to 345 ?
mircea_popescu: sure kako.
mircea_popescu: what do i need to do ?
mircea_popescu: can you log into acct ?
kakobrekla: you told me to change the ip and then it went from working to not working
mircea_popescu: well cause server moved
kakobrekla: lemme try
mircea_popescu: so new ip
kakobrekla: i am logged in
kakobrekla has no idea how the fck do i diagnose whats wrong in this 'cpanel'
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c btw, the svg cuts ever so slightly of the names on the left, like "anielkraw" and "iatouriansky_"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i think you can also ssh ?
kakobrekla: maybe you can spot the error if you log in ?
mircea_popescu: ok lets see
kakobrekla: aha i found thing called 'error log'
assbot: Chtulhu emerges! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: VIDEO: Angry mom beats son suspected of rioting in Baltimore | ... ( )
BingoBoingo: 15 Officer injuries vs. 2 dozen arrests
assbot: The FetLife Creeplist, Volume 1 « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "Here is a list of the first 3,730 of FetLife’s financial supporters who are male- and dominant-identified. "
mircea_popescu: strike down that patriarchy!
mircea_popescu: pretty cool if you ask me :D
BingoBoingo: Seriously, let all the agendas make fetlife lists
mircea_popescu: what's really funny to me is that there's a "social media site", with 3-4mn claimed "users". out of these 3-4mn, if 1% are actually there you're lucky, and out of those 1% if anothyer 1% is even vaguely worth the mention you're ahead of the curve.
mircea_popescu: BUT! out of all those millions... you should be surprised if like... two people get it, a month or two later.
mircea_popescu: that's where we're at, currently. crowd source means, you gotta get 4 mn "users" together to get two guys that get it two months later.
mircea_popescu: it's not even that it'd be easier to do the getting yourself, by hand. or that it'd be easier to make an eliza get it. you could actually run a school and get better results.
mircea_popescu: which is kind-of like how the us army works, too : you need 4 mn people employed by the pentagon to get two dudes shooting a rifle at the enemy two months later.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00028791 = 8.0615 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 02:22:37; ben_vulpes: you know, that kindergarten class
mircea_popescu: << i can't fucvking believe you actually put a translation you made in a pastebin.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 02:53:09; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al:
mircea_popescu: dude. your blog. POST ON IT.
mircea_popescu: why is this so counter-intuitive and hard and shit.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 02:55:53; asciilifeform: << permacopy
mircea_popescu: better. now if only it had availed itself of those magical inventions of the 70s called... html and web!
mircea_popescu: so you know, i can go "hmm... what else did this guy write" and stuff.
asciilifeform: can chop the url and get the site per se, aha
mircea_popescu falls over
asciilifeform: it's a throwaway turd, l0l, not real article
mircea_popescu: and speaking of which... the great moment ? of yesterday ? and day before yesterday ? did i miss it ?
mircea_popescu: there isn't a real life that's gonna start just as soon as this one's tweaked into perfection, you xtian you.
mircea_popescu: this. this is it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didn't miss. occupied with meatspace crap atm.
mircea_popescu: well... once you decide to commit to sysadmining that box, you can take cpanel off :D
mircea_popescu: and you can even build a btc business on top of this!!1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc it is one of those beasts that infests a machine to such a degree that it cannot really be removed in the sense of restoring the thing to virginity
asciilifeform: but for the humble application in mind here, can live with it
mircea_popescu: if you commit to sysadmining it i don't care what you do, you can reos it for all i care.
mircea_popescu: BUT! it's a commitment.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is that thing connected to ipkvm or other device that would allow it to be re-os'd without taking an airplane ?
mircea_popescu: well it was os'd to my spec the first time...
mircea_popescu 's trick to "fit in head" is chopping off the details.
asciilifeform: again, for the current application, i have no objection to the way it is set up. it won't be issuing launch codes.
mircea_popescu inspects list. fetlife check, alf check, mike check, who am i going to bother and disturb next ?
mircea_popescu: i guess time for meatspace for a spell.
assbot: ClubOrlov: The Limits of Propaganda ... ( )
mircea_popescu: i only bother intelligent life forms.
mircea_popescu: the time for winning staring contests with rocks is at five.
asciilifeform: try the housecats in recoleta
asciilifeform: very intelligent
mircea_popescu: i am old now, and not so easily entertained.
assbot: LTC3108 - Ultralow Voltage Step-Up Converter and Power Manager - Linear Technology ... ( )
asciilifeform: they also sell a 'buck' (vs 'boost') version of same, for use with piezos
asciilifeform: (which crap out 100+v)
mircea_popescu: << he's right there. nobody has an actual obligation to relay any tx to you in any form than in a block.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 03:17:06; asciilifeform: and other thing is, clients have tremendous incentive to drop mempool tx that is an obvious non-candidate for block
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70826 @ 0.00029101 = 20.6111 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: that people currently do... people currently do all sortsa things
mircea_popescu: << if you're a miner, that you'll include in another block. if you're not a miner, that you'll show it to other nodes, which other nodes will value you for this service, and keep talking to you, sending you txn in turn.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 03:19:10; ben_vulpes: seriously, because i'm retarded: what is the incentive to keep a tx in the mempool that will be included in a block but not one that won't?
mircea_popescu: this latter part is not implemented yet. because power braindamage.
mircea_popescu: should prolly be styled as Power bRAiNdamaGER.
asciilifeform: right now there is only the retarded 'Dos(N, ...)' thing
asciilifeform: for kicking a few enumerated badnesses
mircea_popescu: but once foundation gets a "node valuing" patch in...
asciilifeform: anyone who reads the code will probably lean to agreeing with my take on this, which is that this is one of the 1,001 things which is not happening as a simple patch
asciilifeform: but will have to wait for the full shebang.
mircea_popescu: i agree with that too.
mircea_popescu: but eventually...
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 05:19:01; pete_dushenski: at the very least, i knew it would provide useful fodder for teh contravex cannon ;)
mircea_popescu: << kinda shows the limits of stereotyping. black people that shoot black people are in no way related to black people who riot @ the police.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 07:41:15; cazalla: seeing nignogs are only too happy to fire on other nignogs, imma say their heart really isn't in this riot and it'll peter out.. it's *not* happening, sorry /pol/ lol
mircea_popescu: what's next, italian gangster and italian greengrocer = "italians" ?
mircea_popescu: and for the record, the "we only whack each other" behaviour is documented last fucking century. by... sinatra!
mircea_popescu: and even before that, by mark twain, who observed that gunslingers think nothing of killing random derps.
mircea_popescu: here's the actual bit :
mircea_popescu: I remember an instance of a desperado's contempt for such small game as a private citizen's life. I was taking a late supper in a restaurant one night, with two reporters and a little printer named—Brown, for instance—any name will do. Presently a stranger with a long-tailed coat on came in, and not noticing Brown's hat, which was lying in a chair, sat down on it. Little Brown sprang up and became abusive in a mome
mircea_popescu: nt. The stranger smiled, smoothed out the hat, and offered it to Brown with profuse apologies couched in caustic sarcasm, and begged Brown not to destroy him. Brown threw off his coat and challenged the man to fight—abused him, threatened him, impeached his courage, and urged and even implored him to fight; and in the meantime the smiling stranger placed himself under our protection in mock distress. But presently he
mircea_popescu: assumed a serious tone, and said:
mircea_popescu: "Very well, gentlemen, if we must fight, we must, I suppose. But don't rush into danger and then say I gave you no warning. I am more than a match for all of you when I get started. I will give you proofs, and then if my friend here still insists, I will try to accommodate him."
mircea_popescu: The table we were sitting at was about five feet long, and unusually cumbersome and heavy. He asked us to put our hands on the dishes and hold them in their places a moment—one of them was a large oval dish with a portly roast on it. Then he sat down, tilted up one end of the table, set two of the legs on his knees, took the end of the table between his teeth, took his hands away, and pulled down with his teeth till
mircea_popescu: the table came up to a level position, dishes and all! He said he could lift a keg of nails with his teeth. He picked up a common glass tumbler and bit a semi-circle out of it. Then he opened his bosom and showed us a net-work of knife and bullet scars; showed us more on his arms and face, and said he believed he had bullets enough in his body to make a pig of lead. He was armed to the teeth. He closed with the remark
mircea_popescu: that he was Mr.——of Cariboo—a celebrated name whe
mircea_popescu: so... no. it's not the race, it's the occupation.
mircea_popescu: davout notbad guitar.
assbot: 10,000 Strong Peacefully Protest In Downtown Baltimore - Album on Imgur ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "I see a lot of people complaining about the horrible stuff looters and rioters are doing in Baltimore. This is what the media wants you to see, this is the negative side. This is being shown over and over to make you forget that a man had his SPINE SEVERED in police custody. So here are 10,000 people peacefully protesting today that no one seems to be talking about."
mircea_popescu: solid point.
BingoBoingo: Solid enough Baltimore PD is kinda getting raped with it.
assbot: US-Japan defense deal broadens Tokyo's role in face of growing Chinese might | US news | The Guardian ... ( )
lobbes: 'Tokyo’s readiness to embrace what Abe calls “proactive pacifism” comes amid growing anxiety in Japan and across Asia over China’s rising military and economic might.'
Pierre_Rochard: re: baltimore, so far the only cogent analysis I’ve read is from the Oriole’s COO:
assbot: Baltimore Orioles Executive Passionately Defends Freddie Gray Protesters ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9387 @ 0.00030429 = 2.8564 BTC [+]
lobbes: !rate Blazedout419 1 small, but smooth transaction
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
danielpbarron: smooth like hand carved wood?
assbot: brainunwashing comments on Tales from a Bariatric Clinic: FlipperHam ... ( )
Pierre_Rochard: ^ micro transactions for macro gains
lobbes: smooth like hand carved wood? << felt more laser-cut smooth
assbot: La communauté hipster cherche un nouveau mot pour « mainstream », jugé trop mainstream | Le Gorafi News Network ... ( )
davout: today we laugh in french, because we're so sophisticated
BingoBoingo: !up Altcoin
Altcoin: suck my balls
assbot: The Simpsons - En Francais - YouTube ... ( )
davout: Pierre_Rochard: précisément
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00028935 = 7.0312 BTC [-] {2}
lobbes: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24050 @ 0.00030129 = 7.246 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 14:19:45; lobbes: 'Tokyo’s readiness to embrace what Abe calls “proactive pacifism” comes amid growing anxiety in Japan and across Asia over China’s rising military and economic might.'
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
pete_dushenski: japan 're-arming' calls to mind images of ninjarobot armies
pete_dushenski: nuclear-powered ones at that.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: didja ever read A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer?
pete_dushenski: can't say i did.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: aka 'the diamond age'
ben_vulpes: yeah. has some hoplites and an (mircea_popescu'd like this one) army of girls
pete_dushenski: well ghaddafi'd like that too.
ben_vulpes: i can't speak to ghaddafi's training skills tho
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu is basically a better read, less geographically restricted, and paler Qadaffi
assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 21:06:25; mike_c: chetty: cool pic! kinda sad to see boxy go :)
ben_vulpes: << aren't you writing some sort of exchange, too?
assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 21:04:56; williamdunne: Suits me
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: pretty much all of the scifi books i've read were by asimov, heinlein, clarke, and... adams.
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Yes
assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 21:30:23; mircea_popescu: i also had cherisse with maraschino cherries, but thought of ben.
ben_vulpes: cherisse is in the same food group as la cuña?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: hard to say how well read muammar was.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well only way to judge that is the writings and Ghaddafi doesn't have a trilema.
pete_dushenski: mebbe he had diaries ?
pete_dushenski: personal, hand-written, old fashioned sorta things.
pete_dushenski: not many men of his vintage embraced the blog.
ben_vulpes: ascii_
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: the md fun anywhere near you?
davout: williamdunne: what are you even writing it for?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: about 1hr away
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: he was born in '69 to "The son of an impoverished Bedouin goat herder"
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: chinese times
williamdunne: davout: hoping some gurlz turn up
ben_vulpes: > hoping
ben_vulpes: > girls
BingoBoingo: ascii_field Ah, You're about the same distance I was from Fergusson
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: sorry, ghadaffi was born in '42. that makes waaay more sense.
davout: williamdunne: what?
ben_vulpes: kids kinda funny
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: yeah
williamdunne: davout: I'm writing it because it interesting to do, and I have some ideas it could be useful for
davout: the latter part being pretty much what i'm asking
ben_vulpes: achtung, qntrites! ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED
davout: ;;isup
gribble: is up
assbot: Warrick County Prosecutor's Office Cover Up Ransomware Infection | ... ( )
williamdunne: davout: Allowing people who are trusted significantly enough to carry out a contract, to sell their future earnings in return for money today. Sorta like an MPEX for people
davout: i parse that as some variant of btcjam
williamdunne: Not really
williamdunne: It wouldn't be loans
williamdunne: i.e I sell 40% of all my future income for xx btc today
williamdunne: I may make 1 btc in the rest of my life
williamdunne: In which case its a net negative
davout: ok, that would be a stock exchange
williamdunne: Correct >Sorta like an MPEX for people
williamdunne: So rather than buying S.Dice it would be P.Voorhees
ben_vulpes: stross had a book about this
davout: ic
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: know what the yield was ?
ascii_field: (of the particular turd)
ben_vulpes relents, temporarily
ben_vulpes: (how could i?)
ascii_field: i can guess - nice round number
ben_vulpes: you can guess all you like, doesn't mean diddly.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 13:34:26; mircea_popescu: i am old now, and not so easily entertained.
ascii_field: guess based on samples i collect personally
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: it is precisely like the spam cargo cult
ben_vulpes: you're not collecting water station samples, are you?
ascii_field: wai wut
ben_vulpes: the water filtration station - it's not ending up in your nets.
assbot: Why no SSL ? — Varnish version trunk documentation ... ( )
kakobrekla: <sturles> I think I hve found the reason for the recent spike in sales. Microsoft keeps earning me money. This time their users get infected with Cryptowall 3.0. Explains the many recent purchases of about 500 USD worth in bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: here's me having wasted 4 hours trying to sysadmin.
mircea_popescu: it is obviously trivial to get varnish installed, and it will cache.
mircea_popescu: obviously, it will fuck up the source IP for requests. it's not obvious how to get apache to fix this.
mircea_popescu: and so here we are, AGAIN : foss is perfectly fucking useless.
mircea_popescu: it "mostly" does the job, every time. it NEVER actually does the job. not ever.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ^^^^^^
mircea_popescu: "it might be nginx, it might me mod_rpaf, it might be mod_futipemata ; some of these have been forked. the way to install them is make the whole fucking httpd-devel
mircea_popescu: as if THAT is what i wanna do.
mircea_popescu: and in generall...
ascii_field: welcome to the sad hell
mircea_popescu: or you know, you could install nginx
mircea_popescu: because totally, that's the stack you want, 8 things long
mircea_popescu: or you could install apachebooster, which is... a wrapper on nginx and varnish, by "prajith"
mircea_popescu: who meanwhile sold it to some derp-ass host corp, that wants 9 bux a year. for what exactly ? a script ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.00029973 = 10.5205 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the actual sad hell is not this. it is that i will solve it, and that will serve ABSOLUTELY NOBODY
mircea_popescu: supposedly THIS is why we're wasting all the money on "ip" enforcement : so that i am not in this position where i can say the above.
mircea_popescu: works about as well as fucking foss.
ascii_field: well yes, will solve it
ascii_field: how else.
mircea_popescu: dignork yes, it does. but apache does not look at it.
mircea_popescu: and i know this, incidentally, because i have meanwhile learned "vcl"
ascii_field: and of course it will serve no one else. that'd be, what, interchangeable parts, it isn't 1800 yet, not invented yet
mircea_popescu: which is a retarded domain language with consturcts like
mircea_popescu: set req.http.X-Forwarded-For = client.ip;
mircea_popescu: all the boyish idiocy of "software development" needs to go die in a fire.
mircea_popescu: !up dignork
dignork: thanks :)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: at present, no one has the fuel for this fire.
ascii_field: ignition - yes, buncha angry fellas with welding torches
mircea_popescu: dignork it's not a matter of logging it. it's a matter of, php no longer sees the source
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hopefully i get the fetlife femmes pissy enough to combust.
mircea_popescu: << check it out, the file is actually lost.
assbot: Installing mod_rpaf on CentOS Apache server | Managed Drupal Hosting Services on Drupal Optimized with Varnish, APC, Memcache, Apache Solr, Drush, Webmin/Virtualmin and more! ... ( )
dignork: well, it's still accessible as http header (X-Forwarded-For or similar), so it will require some minor changes to php code
mircea_popescu: random derps are willing to send you a copy. if you trust them. signatures ? wots ? wut ?
mircea_popescu: dignork change THE CODE because of THE SERVER ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17040 @ 0.00030652 = 5.2231 BTC [+] {2}
dignork: adding reverse proxy is infrastructure change, original code might have been written with such change in mind, but even if not, usally it's a minor modification
mircea_popescu: the most insulting thing is that while the wisdom seems to be "eh, change the code", there does not exist a master list where you know, all the code dependencies are nicely cross-referenced, so i can just go "fuckup-php for-the-ip-poroxy-issue"
mircea_popescu: think about it. why the fuck should the code have to know about this. and if it does have to know about this, why aren't ALL the code references affected by any of such a change cross-indexed somewhere ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: there is probably enough accumulated anger of this kind among computer users for two or three classy genocides
ascii_field has, if anyone didn't know, a whole www site about this
mircea_popescu: dignork the only way you would be allowed to write code, in a world where "hey, if infrastructure changes code needs to change" is with index lists of "all lines affected by X - here" "all lines affected by Y - here"
ascii_field recalls this exists as ada postprocessor
mircea_popescu: i am not surprised.
ascii_field: but this is a mega-l0l - apache crud, etc. wake me up when someone has the resources to rewrite even something that catastrophically matters, e.g. bitcoin
mircea_popescu: it doesn't even exist, you hear me ? the cannonical way to get ip fixed on a varnished apache is "Note that where the file originally were located for some reason is off currently."
mircea_popescu: i thouht it's just off you know, as i happened to look at it. but no, they have blogposts about it
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Can you not use the WordPress cacheing plugin?
mircea_popescu: the who now ?!
dignork: mircea_popescu: you wouldn't believe amount of horribly broken code which blows up in ipv6 environment, anything from integer overflows,crashes,malfunctions to firewalls leaving your machine exposed
mircea_popescu: dignork o, i'd believe.
ascii_field: dignork: we knew. which is why i banned ipv6 in my home, and press for its permanent exclusion from therealbitcoin
mircea_popescu: ascii_field how is it ipv6's fault!
ascii_field: elementarily, and all else aside, it makes naked eye analysis of lan traffic considerably more painful
mircea_popescu: so then use ipv2!
ascii_field: lol wut
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: WP Super Cache I think its called, it Caches your HTML and serves that rather than rendering on each load
williamdunne: So basically like varnish but a bit more shit
mircea_popescu: how is it like varnish at all ? it's a php script neh ?
williamdunne: Maybe I'm not remembering what varnish is correctly, but it is a middleware that serves up static HTML instead of asking the server, right?
mircea_popescu: well, yes, but it stands in front of apache
williamdunne: Yeah, its a bit like that except serverside
williamdunne: Not ideal, but better than nothing
williamdunne: (Until you find a better solution, that is)
mircea_popescu: maybe i could reimplement apache in php first! then i could run varnish (reimplemented in php too) in front of it and not lose the ips.
williamdunne: Why not reimplement it in brainfuck?
mircea_popescu: because much like ada, brainfuck is an actually specified language
mircea_popescu: so it's probably not fast enough for the web.
ascii_field observes that ada uses gcc backend, but this is already known to most
williamdunne: ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field once wrote a forth to brainfuck compiler
williamdunne: "FXCO Ltd. 2013 - 2016 © All rights reserved"
assbot: jsimnz/fuckfuck · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: We fly because we’re loved. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: !up dignork
assbot: Inside the Apple Watch: Technical Teardown | Chipworks Blog ... ( )
mircea_popescu: this shit is rich.
assbot: Custom Modules - EasyApache - cPanel Documentation ... ( )
mircea_popescu: To install a custom module, perform the following steps on the command line as the root user:
mircea_popescu: Download the custom module archive file to your computer.
mircea_popescu: With your preferred file transfer method, upload the custom module's archive file to your server's /var/cpanel/easy/apache/custom_opt_mods/ directory.
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
davout: mircea_popescu: i haven't been using apache for a long long while, but maybe mod_remoteip does what you want, override the source IP by some IP it finds in an HTTP header
mircea_popescu: yes. except it doesn't run for apache 2.2.x
davout: klol
mircea_popescu: among the changes from 2.2 to 2.4 (current) ? alf will appreciate this
mircea_popescu: Apache 2.4 uses a dynamic modular structure by default. This potentially can cause problems if a LoadModule directive calls a module that was not built into the Apache binary.
mircea_popescu: EasyApache overrides Apache 2.4's default settings and builds modules statically to provide backward compatibility.
mircea_popescu: static builds are "backwards compatibility" nao
williamdunne: Is it possible to just search through your code and edit all header["ip_address"] to header["remote_ip"]?
williamdunne: Or whatever the variable is called
mircea_popescu: i could even write a perl script to do it...
davout: i don't get how the structure can be "dynamic modular" and then "cause problems" when stuff isn't built right into apache
mircea_popescu: davout welcome to technical writing today.
davout: and wrt to the reference index thing, it's kind of weird that the same stuff would be defined at multiple places anyway
davout: unless coding is done with Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V
mircea_popescu: Compiling and Installing mod_remoteip on Apache 2.2
mircea_popescu: If you are running Apache 2.2, you can thank Takashi Takizawa for backporting mod_remoteip for Apache 2.2.X servers and posting it on his GitHub as mod_remoteip_httpd22.
mircea_popescu: so what's the wot vote, do i thank " Takashi Takizawa" for his work and download random code offa da github ?
mircea_popescu: what signatures or anything, it's Takashi Takizawa!!
davout: patch can't be that large to review
mircea_popescu: yeah, i am looking forward to reviewing random code for free.
mircea_popescu: just another $500 an hour service i do for the world.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is what the stack of shit is built on. "oh, little step X can't be too hard"
mircea_popescu: fuck you.
williamdunne: What difference would it make if he had signed it? Its not like you know the guy enough to trust him
mircea_popescu: but maybe i know someone who does trust him ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, if i do know some guys who trust him, the cost of obtaining a new Takashi Takizawa is not equal to s/Takashi Takizawa/Takashi Takizawa/
mircea_popescu: 448 lines. i am not happy with a dollar a line. not that i'm getting paid or anything.
davout: yeah well, either you code due diligence or you don't, up to you, never mentioned anything about "reviewing random code for free"
mircea_popescu: and if i do, it's wasted.
mircea_popescu: "there's free as in beer, free as in freedom, and free as in your time has no value"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one way to look at it is that division of labour never really happened in computing. to the useful point where you can actually safely hand something off to a pro. instead, we're all in a situation not unlike that ru doctor in the polar expedition who had to self-appendectomy
mircea_popescu: the other way to look at this is that everyone involved in computer software should be sent back to third grade
mircea_popescu: with a month's supply of daily beatings.
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: or that zany dentist who did her own root canals.
Adlai: probably more like since we at least have (a few old and trusted) machines on our side
assbot: Prometheus surgery scene - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: now back to the issue : the "backported" thing compiles. apache has no care in the world.
mircea_popescu: how do you drop modules into apache ?
davout: williamdunne: thought a bit about your project, sounds like a degenerate case of a stock exchange actually
Adlai: this is also why the only sane approach to programming depends upon homoiconicity... there's simply too much code for a single human to type by hand
Adlai: !up ascii_field
williamdunne: davout: Not sure why it would be degenerate, but yes. Very similar.
williamdunne: Hence >Sorta like an MPEX for people
davout: williamdunne: because if your work consists of projects X, Y, and Z you can decide to raise capital separately for each of them separately on a stock exchange, not only as "here's me, throw money at me"
williamdunne: Thats the point
williamdunne: If you believe that someone has the potential to do something great, but do not know how many attempts it may take them to do so, it allows you to bet on their success rather than the success of the current project
davout: in this case a stock market would have the advantage of making shitty stuff fail earlier
williamdunne: I'm hoping it just increases the velocity, so shitty stuff fails sooner and good stuff succeeds sooner
davout: "i didn't even get to try projects X and Y because the market told me it was retarded", on the other hand Z was pretty successful"
williamdunne: X Y and Z have a number of other metrics you can use to attain success i.e revenue growth
davout: what other metric than money did you have in mind?
ascii_field: wake me up when there is actually the money floating around to give anything serious at all its minimal take-off velocity.
ascii_field: (to a first approximation, afaik, there isn't)
williamdunne: davout: Growth of userbase etc, its not meant to be a sure-fire bet to make money
williamdunne: Its also more restrictive, as its not restricted to projects. i.e a student could use it if doing some sort of professional degree
williamdunne: Really the idea is just making it possible to invest in people rather than things
Adlai: ascii_field: on the contrary, the money is there, but it's steered by people who prefer to fund
williamdunne: Although your issue could somewhat solved by allowing shareholders to allocate what money goes where
ascii_field: williamdunne: it is already possible. pick your favourite people and give $1m to each, in unmarked benjies.
davout: that's kind of a basic mistake here, assuming you can invest in things, if I buy a bitcoin asset I'm really investing in the people running it, not in some ethereal abstract "thing"
davout: williamdunne: shareholders being able to allocate "what money goes where" is pretty much a stock market
williamdunne: davout: If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium
williamdunne: davout: true
mircea_popescu: heh. mkay, i got it, now it's terribly broken :D
williamdunne: davout: Basically its no longer a bet on whether or not the project is retarded, but whether or not you're retarded
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: What is?
davout: mircea_popescu: good good, let the broken http requests flow through you
mircea_popescu: anyway, at least now i know what needs fixing
davout: williamdunne: my main point is that this is already what you're doing when buying a BTC-denominated asset that's run by someone and that your idea removes more value than what it adds to the stock exchange value proposition
davout: but hey, at the end of the day you're the one doing the work!
williamdunne: davout: well it wouldn't be BTC denominated, but yeah. While it certainly removes some things, its not targeted at people who would need those things
lobbes: <williamdunne> ... If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium << In this case, wouldn't you just wait until he creates the project you think -will- succeed and invest in that?
williamdunne: lobbes: Potentially so, although of course that assumes that you have the capacity to do so, and he has the capitulation to get to that point
ascii_field: capitulation ?!
ascii_field head-desks
davout: ascii_field: looks like my french-ness shows even through IRC
davout: williamdunne: you're not making sense
williamdunne: ascii_field: Sorry for word derpage
davout: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: hallelujah!
mircea_popescu: i think i actually got it.
mircea_popescu: someone be so kind to leave a comment on trilema so i see if teh ip is alright ?
williamdunne: Error 503 Service Unavailable
williamdunne: Service Unavailable
williamdunne: Guru Meditation:
williamdunne: XID: 1771716550
williamdunne: Varnish cache server
williamdunne: On comment submit
williamdunne: Okay it worked this time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22065 @ 0.00029325 = 6.4706 BTC [-]
lobbes: !up ascii_field
assbot: mod_remoteip - Apache HTTP Server Version 2.5 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: jurov it's for apache 2.4
mircea_popescu: which, as discussed in log...
jurov: i see
mircea_popescu: well ok, this should be fixed now.
mircea_popescu: please everyone do report any bullshit coming from trilema!
mircea_popescu: jurov how do i contribute signed non-bitcoin code to the great codex ?
mircea_popescu: pls to excuse my noobery.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: GitHub is the accepted norm
mircea_popescu: not here.
davout: williamdunne: you must be new here
trinque: that's a paddlin'
williamdunne: trinque: lol
jurov: he means btc-dev
jurov: would make sense to have a new mailing list for nonbtc stuff
williamdunne: Ahh, I assumed MP meant the varnish code
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Still getting; "Looks like you tried to comment off a stale page. Reload the article, count to three and try again."
jurov: "Server: - Varnished by MP" lol
Adlai: whence wothub?
jurov: should i make such list? and on therealbitcoin or some other domain?
mircea_popescu: jurov not sure if worth the hassle forjust this
jurov: wothub ain't bad
Adlai envisions 'wothub' as a content-addressable signed patchstore
trinque: we need that.
Adlai: so build it trinque !
Adlai: stop waiting for other people to take initiative
trinque: who says I am
trinque: if I find the time maybe I will
trinque: not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute
Adlai waits for trinque to take initiative
williamdunne not sure what is wrong with using github with pgp signatures
trinque: williamdunne: enemy territory
trinque: it should be hosted in-wot
williamdunne: What difference does it make if you have local backups and its all signed?
williamdunne: Not like they can modify the code or take it from you, just delete it from their servers
williamdunne: Hardly a dealbreaker IMO
trinque: why have factories in the US when China will produce everything for us cheaper?
trinque: it's a matter of growing infrastructure
trinque: and expertise
Pierre_Rochard: why not both? mirror on github, run your own git server
davout: while github is not an option i'm with williamdunne here, git is nice and having a foundation-operated git server would be a good thing imo
trinque: I am also in favor of git
mircea_popescu: how gpg friendly is it ?
Pierre_Rochard: it’s ssh friendly, send your ssh pubkey signed with your gpg key
Adlai: !s darcs
assbot: 25 results for 'darcs' :
williamdunne: You can store anything on git, so nothing stopping you from attaching signatures
davout: mircea_popescu: i think you can sign commits, also it can't really be less gpg-friendly than throwing tarballs around
davout: looking into it
Adlai: fwiw, darcs is much more friendly to the "signed patch" model of modification; git is better for 'signed code'; and neither are perfect
Adlai: (git only lets you sign merkle roots of the source code, rather than diffs)
mats: git and github is not so great
Adlai: although... signed roots are kinda what you want
Adlai: mats: what's wrong with git itself?
assbot: Git - Signing Your Work ... ( )
davout: Adlai: "In more recent versions of Git (v1.7.9 and above), you can now also sign individual commits."
mats: overengineered, cvs is often good enough
trinque: no way
Adlai: LOL
davout: blergh
Adlai: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
Adlai: fuck
trinque: branching is good, merging is good
davout: Adlai: c-c-c-combo breaker
Adlai: mats: shirley you're joking
trinque: having one goddamn tower that can get skullfucked by orcs is bad
williamdunne: git >>>>>>> cvs
williamdunne: I'll keep my commits thank you very much
Adlai: davout: the "sign commits" feature still essentially consists of signing a merkle root of the source tree; darks lets you sign the patch
trinque: prudent I think to discuss which DVCS to use
trinque: but DVCS by god
Adlai: there's stuff to be said for either side... tbh, it seems like signing merkle roots is what yall want
davout: Adlai: well, from what i understand of the docs, you can sign -individual commits- which is a new feature because originally it could only do what you say
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53300 @ 0.00030083 = 16.0342 BTC [+] {3}
davout: now, how you verify them, and how you enforce mandatory signature is something else
Adlai: davout: an "individual commit" is still just a hash of the commit message + merkle root of the source tree
trinque: davout: sounds like fancy hooks
trinque: to reject bad pushes
Adlai: so, it's less convenient for signing a patch relative to an upstream repo; but is exactly what you want if you just want to have a single head to put on a stake when heardbleed 2.0 gets uncovered
davout: trinque: that's one thing, the other is: whenever i pull i want to verify it independently
trinque: indeed
williamdunne: *clone
Adlai: so you either want darcs with every single patch signed, or git
davout: Adlai: you're probably right, i think the difference isn't that important though, the point of the wot is to make an identity valuable
Adlai: git has the advantage of a single signature covering the entire current state; darcs has the advantage of letting a single signature cover changes alone. it's really a question of use case
Adlai: the real problem is technophobia, "I trust nothing other than butterflies and sed"
Adlai: ... but whence the sed binary?
ascii_field: not the git thing again
davout: they're functionally equivalent, but i guess that if darcs is a better fit, why not
Adlai: they're not! the darcs model would've let mircea_popescu submit a single fix to apache, whereas the git model requires him to sign the entire apache source tree
Adlai: !up ascii_field
davout: Adlai: they're functionnaly equivalent, not identical, the functionality in this case being the identification of the head to chop off
Adlai: either approach lets you determine which fingers inserted which code
williamdunne: davout: How is that different to git? You can blame individual lines of coding using git
davout: Adlai: that's exactly my point
ascii_field: git is pernicious for safety-critical code because it - however slightly - reduces the expectation that every line of diff is attentively read
trinque: this is a social problem
ascii_field: by making it easy to process heavy diffs
trinque: not a technology problem
trinque: max commit size and beatings
davout: ^this
ascii_field: i do -not- want nonhumanreadable state in source.
ascii_field: it is an abomination.
Adlai: what's 'nonhumanreadable'?
ascii_field: can't be cat'd to a vt100.
ascii_field: or line printer.
davout: ascii_field: is a tarball human readable?
trinque: gits data model is... lemme see if I can remember; it's been a while since I wrote a postgresql fdw into it
assbot: bitcoin-central/lib/liberty_reserve/client.rb at master · davout/bitcoin-central · GitHub ... ( )
trinque: commit points to other commits and a tree, tree points to tree entries, which point to blobs
davout: williamdunne: whiskey tango foxtrot
ascii_field: davout: if uncompressed - very much so
trinque: all things are blobs, even the aforementioned
trinque: keys are hashes
trinque: what's not to understand
williamdunne: davout: blame tool
trinque: then you have the tool atop that data model which yes, has all kinds of bullshit
trinque: but the data model itself is easily understood
trinque: and inspectable by human eyes
Adlai: trinque: darcs is even simpler, but has the disadvantage (which was previously mentioned as an advantage!) of allowing people to submit changes which cause malicious behavior when combined with previously-signed changes
davout: williamdunne: look what's your point here? that one can git-blame?
williamdunne: pretty much
davout: williamdunne: everybody fucking knows that
trinque: lol
Adlai: williamdunne: the problem here is more one of convincing ascii_field that there exists trustworthyness outside of his own skull
williamdunne: Ah okay, not sure if I can help with that.
trinque: so the process of establishing trust should be human and involve eyes
trinque: the process of managing a bunch of feature branches and shit, I want a tool
trinque: doing that manually doesn't make me smarter.
Adlai: signed tarballs are still corruptible, if your tar (or gpg) binary is diddled
trinque: everything is
Adlai: really this is all masturbation until we have a by-hand constructible fab
trinque: !rate dickhead -10 committed 1000 lines of god knows what
assbot: dickhead is not registered in WoT.
trinque: that's how you fix that
Adlai dogwalks and drinks away the shittiness of modern computing
davout: ascii_field: would you have no problem with a tool that you can bypass, and build the source with the actual signed commits ?
Adlai: sorry, not just regular old wanking - *competitive* masturbation
davout: according to Adlai it isn't really practical to do with git, however, if darcs can output actual clearsigned diffs that would allow one to re-construct the same source tree by hand and check the sigs manually
ascii_field: davout: problem is not just the build
ascii_field: davout: but that git etc make adding crud easy
Adlai: davout: it's doable with git, although requires numerous calls to sha256sum and building 'ls' output by hand
ascii_field: and creates the expectation of using git
Adlai: darcs is much easier to reproduce by hand, since it's JUST applying signed patches
trinque: ascii_field: doesn't this apply to the use of power tools?
trinque: shouldn't use them because an idiot will just end up without an arm?
davout: ascii_field: i'm with trinque here, it's a social problem, not to be solved by tools
Adlai: trinque: this applies to the use of silicon that you didn't forge yourself
davout: but by the wot
Adlai: ascii_field is just choosing to trust intel/amd/etc
trinque: right, I can guarantee at least that I have no qualms screaming at a person that's done wrong
ascii_field: Adlai: it is a mistake to conclude that i trust
Adlai: well, we're choosig a point at which we give up on paranoia as overly hampering
Adlai: and arguing over where exactly that point is
ascii_field: notice that you -can- use git etc personally, no prob
ascii_field: but this is not what git aficionados want. they expect -me- to use it if i want to participate
ascii_field: and to have the canonical representation of the project be a git turd
trinque: well, the social experiment would be instructive, would it not?
Adlai is making too many typos to continue participating in the discourse
ascii_field: trinque: go 'experiment' with boeing's avionics code
Adlai: last thought: a signed-patch-dev mailing list, and some trivial darcs wrapper that consumes attachments from that mailing list to frob any random repository, whether git, darks, or - for mats's's benefit - cvs. left as an exercise to the reader.
ascii_field: will be an interesting social experiment, yes
trinque: ascii_field: if people cannot be brought to obey processes, how can any group activity ever occur?
Adlai: note that darcs does NOTHING beyond 'patch -p1 < thingy'
ascii_field: Adlai: go ahead and use it then
ascii_field: but don't expect me to
Adlai: it needs to be written first :)
Adlai dogwalk
ascii_field: wtf is so hard to understand re: 'the canonical representation of the project must be human-readable' ?
trinque: it should be noted that ascii_field's profession as I understand it is knowing how attacks occur
trinque: and I respect that
trinque: and "speed" of development should not be a value
ascii_field: trinque: it is a mistake to conclude that i am bringing deep wisdom from some 'respectable society' profession here. i am deliberately and profanely pissing on 'best practices'
trinque: ascii_field: seems you should write up what you think is an appropriate process for maintaining a "mainline" branch
trinque: ascii_field: I am referring to you, not an industry
ascii_field: why? because we have a little problem with vermin, in computing
ascii_field: and the only solution, at this point, is neutron bomb
trinque: certainly
ascii_field: i don't have the neutron bomb yet. so we're stuck with flamethrowers
davout: ascii_field: i hear your points
ascii_field: but even so, anyone who wants - davout, trinque, et al - can use favourite versioncontrolsystem at home
trinque: ascii_field: I would be pleased with a process that allowed for that, but that there is only one route to "released"
trinque: and think you're on the money re: how that should operate
ascii_field: i mean, when you write own contributions, you can generate them however you like
ascii_field: so long as the output is a unix patch
trinque: sure, I see room for collaborating on feature branches though
ascii_field: incidentally, for readers unfamiliar with the overall thread, the project under discussion - therealbitcoin - does not belong to me. it is run by ben_vulpes and mod6. who appear to agree with my position here.
trinque: ben_vulpes uses git in his day to day work, and I'm sure for a reason
trinque: or if not that some other dvcs
ascii_field: it is worth repeating precisely -why- i specified 'unix patches' to be the canonical representations
williamdunne: Maybe there is a good reason why this would not work, but could you not just generate an XML file that contains the names of all the files, a hash of each file, and then sign the XML? Could be automated fairly easily and would work on top of existing solutions
ascii_field: the ultimate product is to be a series of -human-auditable- diffs, each small and extremely narrowly focused, starting from classical bitcoind 0.5.3.
ascii_field: this is to establish -pedigree-
trinque: williamdunne: XML nein
williamdunne: trinque: some sort of record of the files and shasums then
ascii_field: williamdunne: we have this. 'manifest'
trinque: williamdunne: this is what the tree in git already is
trinque: pile of hashes and blobs they refer to
ascii_field: it is how i specified a de-crufted subset of 0.5.3's files on day 1
ascii_field: (diff does not offer a simple way to say 'deleted whole file')
trinque: so it lacks information
ascii_field: trinque: my opposition to git et al as canonical representations is because they have -any- 'behind the scenes' components.
trinque: I agree 100% that "canonical" as the outside world is made to see it should not be a git repo
ascii_field: as well as reasons listed earlier.
trinque: and understand your rationale
trinque: I think hackers here would just like to collaborate via something other than email
trinque: it's a shitty interface and I'm not dealing with it
trinque: doesn't make me feel smart to pluck a patch from an email attachment
ascii_field: trinque: automate.
trinque: and that approaches dvcs
ascii_field: and pluck from jurov's www forum.
ascii_field: trinque: no, it does not. because there is no hidden state.
trinque: I don't agree with "hidden" re: the state of git
trinque: but then I've been all through the internals of it
ascii_field: what's in a '.git' ?
ascii_field: and more importantly, wtf should i have to care
trinque: database of hashes and binary wads
trinque: it's just a key value store
ascii_field: and before long folks will want forking/branching
trinque: this is sensible, sometimes work begins on a feature that's later abandoned
ascii_field: and then comes the use of central server, and of ssl
trinque: or postponed
trinque: naaah
trinque: git solves this problem, and I can even email you a patch directly out of git
ascii_field: trinque: how is branching not hidden state ?
trinque: explain to me what is hidden
trinque: that it is a binary db?
ascii_field: i can't pipe a branched repo to a line printer
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 16:23:44; BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu is basically a better read, less geographically restricted, and paler Qadaffi
davout: if darcs is able to output clearsigned unix patches i really don't see a reason not to use it, we can still review small individual units of work, and ascii_field's patches integrate gracefully
ascii_field: use it, so long as i don't have to know anything about it
trinque: to the extent that we do it right ascii_field should not have to care
trinque: yes
mircea_popescu: in other news, noiw im getting shit like Host: H\x92_\x02 in the logs.
mircea_popescu: can't possibly be a problem rite ?
ascii_field: trinque: and if any of you produce a 100kB patch, and i barf on general principle and refuse to have anything more to do with project, don't say i didn't warn that vcs is harmful.
davout: trinque: "to the extent that we do it right ascii_field should not have to care" <<< that should be the criteria
ascii_field: for the record, i use all kinds of odd tools internally
ascii_field: but would never expect other folks to take that kind of radiation damage
davout: ascii_field: that's what's being said, it's a good tool if ascii_field doesn't know about it :D
trinque: I agree
ascii_field: when i suddenly am expected to care what's in some xml turd, or expose a box to the net just to fetch changes, or similar atrocities - i reach for barf bag
trinque: I promise to barf myself if XML creeps in
davout: ascii_field: i have some "Air France" branded ones if you're into sophisticated barfing
trinque: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: davout: i took an 'aerolinas argentinas' bag home
ascii_field: ty trinque
mircea_popescu: "expose a box to the net just to fetch changes" << what, you want it to divine the changes ?
ascii_field: nah removable storage
mod6: <+ascii_field> ... it is run by ben_vulpes and mod6. who appear to agree with my position here. << yup.
trinque: ascii_field: if there were even something which made the relationships between patches data, I would be satisfied.
trinque: that's really *all* I want
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> and the only solution, at this point, is neutron bomb << Better make sure your z-weighted sheilding is completely cobalt free...
trinque: ok, this is how I get to the point where I can work on feature X
trinque: this is how I build out to current release
trinque: the mailing list is a shitty version of this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31300 @ 0.0003015 = 9.437 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: seems like an ID of a patch would obviously be some hash of it
trinque: so then just a tree of IDs
trinque: to synthesize one point from that pile, I want the computer to strongly enforce relationships for me, not to mindlessly build because I'm too lazy
jurov: trinque, it uses SHA1 as ID
trinque: what does
trinque: git, yeah
trinque: this is a hypothetical
mod6: the mailing list
trinque: ah ok
jurov: no, btc-dev mailinglist it even renames the recognized signed attachemnts so
trinque: so where's the tree of hashes that tells me what builds towards the release
trinque: some email somewhere
trinque: structured data is pretty cool.
jurov: if you can propose some format for this accepted by stakeholder like alf, you're welcome
jurov: it's shell scripts atm
trinque: just thinking through it; I have no need to change nor authority to change a process that works for them
ascii_field: i'd be open to a purely gnumake-based thing instead of the sh
cazalla: so Warrick County got back to me regarding the ransomware (in comic sans no less)
cazalla: qntra/trilema down here so can't update :\
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Qntra was up for me until you said that, Wonder what MP is coding or building nao...
jurov: adding moar exploits to apache
cazalla: <<< but the grocer isn't engaged in things similar to the mafioso such as robbing other businesses, so i don't see how the analogy fits.. if ya gonna throw rocks, steal beauty products and impede mr fireman's ability to put out fires by cutting hoses, why not open up on them too?
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 13:51:08; mircea_popescu: what's next, italian gangster and italian greengrocer = "italians" ?
jurov: the greengrocer prolly caused mass development of explosive gases
mircea_popescu: << and what is then your remaining incentive to realise any future income ?
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 16:33:22; williamdunne: i.e I sell 40% of all my future income for xx btc today
mircea_popescu: this was kinda popular with "artists" thinking themsleves above prostitution on myfreecams and etsy.
mircea_popescu: it never took off.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Getting to keep the other 60%
mircea_popescu: unless you pull a bugsy and sell 500%
williamdunne: Sure. That can be prevented though
mircea_popescu: o it can ?
williamdunne: That exact problem could exist with regular stocks. Whats the incentive for Exxon to keep generating revenue? Start up, sell out, cash out, bro down
williamdunne: Yeah, don't let them sell 500% of their income
trinque: who doesn't let them
williamdunne: The operator, its not like they're selling 40% of £40,000/year, they're selling 40% of whatever they make, with no guarantees of said figure
trinque: why invest in workers when you can invest in the businesses that own them?
mike_c: this HYIP sounds awesome. put me down for 500% of it.
williamdunne: trinque: Because people live on a different timeperiod to the company in many cases
williamdunne: *are alive for
trinque: eh that's just shitty businesses
williamdunne: if(percentage > 100)
williamdunne: return "fuck off"
mike_c: s/100/0/
mircea_popescu: im not sure you understand the difference between natural and constructive persons
jurov: why can't you just get normal loan?
mircea_popescu: but let's indulge : exxon can't smoke fucking dope.
mircea_popescu: EVERY human looking to sell his future is into smoking dope.
williamdunne: And thats part of the risk
williamdunne: jurov: Maybe you can, this is an alternative.
trinque: no that's it; the more you're willing to sell your future the higher risk "investment" you are
trinque: williamdunne: ^
williamdunne: Indeed, I'm not talking bout some sort of service where 100 people deposit money and then a "money manager" decides who to invest in
williamdunne: The entire point is its meant to be risky as shit
mike_c: mircea_popescu: you could install nginx and not install varnish. it will cache shit quite nicely
williamdunne: Its not really a unique idea though, been done twice as far as I can tell. Both started in US but had obvious legal issues come up
jurov: oh it has been done many millions of times
jurov: like, parents invest into you nd then expect to get a "reasonable" part of your income
williamdunne: I mean the platform, not the general idea of selling future income
williamdunne: ofc thats been done a shit ton
williamdunne: Governments constantly do it without consent
mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah, im a day wasted in here. i could waste another one. sure.
mircea_popescu: excelt niginx also won't work.
mircea_popescu: for reasons.
jurov: williamdunne: so why do you want to undergo this, when most everyone hates it?
williamdunne: jurov: Did quite well on the other platforms until the SEC stepped in, not particularly large time investment needs to be made.
trinque: jurov: sounds like someone who doesn't deserve a loan begging with "no dude, I'll like, do anything, man!"
trinque: the recourse for that person is to go find someone for whom to tape boxes shut
trinque: not to be handed more money to waste
jurov: williamdunne: that's not answer to "why"
trinque: aside from the foolishness of this from an investment perspective, it's not helping the guy any
jurov: trinque: ikr. but want to see the thought process why it supposedly beats other alternatives
trinque: on the other side sure, if you've got goons (read: massive govt) to beat payment out of people, loan sharking is great
williamdunne: jurov: "Because potentially it could make money, its an excuse to learn more tech, and there is little risk in terms of what I could lose by doing it"
mircea_popescu: ok, so the sad story of my wasted day : first, instlaled varnish in 10 minutes, but then spent 4 hours trying to get ip forwarding.
mircea_popescu: finally found a way to do that. EXCEPT it injects random data at random intervals, i end up with "ips" like "8�b]"
mircea_popescu: and well... spend another 4 hours debugging that.
mircea_popescu: lesson learned ... do not try to actually use software.
mircea_popescu: it's not usable.
mike_c: nginx always works. I have never been disappointed in it. Recommending shit to people is always a -EV process, but..
mircea_popescu: it would have been cheaper to buy a server. if i were to bill 8 hours it'd be enough to buy a fucking rack, and that's for doing stuff i actually like doing.
jurov: haven't i wrote somewhere that every productive day ends with patch or bugreport?
mircea_popescu: so you have.
jurov: and i don't enjoy that, too. but such is life.
mircea_popescu: pretty ridiculous life.
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williamdunne: trinque: reasons they gave
jurov: there's this saying about inspiration and perspiration, you know
mircea_popescu: jurov dude, come on, it's ridiculous. imagine if cars worked like software works.
jurov: oh, they did, until very recently
mircea_popescu: "sorry honey, can't come to dinner, i'm apparently unable to find the entry to the brooklyn bridge today"
mircea_popescu: "yes i know five billion people found it before. and yet..."
mircea_popescu: "musta been a different car - and - gasoline combination i guess. going back (on foot) to gas station trying some more combos"
trinque: the changes which resulted in the present state should be data
trinque: this in any computer system worth a shit
mircea_popescu: and cars NEVER worked like software works, outside of a laurel and ollie short
trinque: unix's "everything is a file" is a poor man's "everything is data"
assbot: Laurel and Hardy....Imagine what could happen if IKEA started selling cars.... - YouTube ... ( )
trinque: lol
jurov: i have 14y old daewoo, we can split "never ever" hairs but the end result and frustration is the same
mircea_popescu: see jurov, the thing is... i have the OPTION to not own obscure exotic cars whose maker went out of business shortly after starting because he sucked.
mircea_popescu: i can buy a fucking bmw.
mircea_popescu: there ISNT a bmw here. it's varnish or nginx. that's it. not like i'm running unheard-of-software
jurov: and you can not have trilema running on php
mircea_popescu: like sealion or w/e
jurov: redo in in CL
mircea_popescu: what'd i run it on ?
mircea_popescu: lmao ok.
mircea_popescu: and where do i find a cl server ?
jurov: you have your own dc last i remember
trinque: this is why I'd like a small board for the embedded space that does very little, and runs a lisp
mircea_popescu: dude. for the love of budha
trinque: needs a starting point
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field is still wondering how mircea_popescu can use that cthonian horror, cpanel
mircea_popescu: the fact that i own a gas station does in no way alleviate the problem that laurel&hardy cars.
trinque: taking on the whole goddamn space is an enormous challenge to say the least
mircea_popescu: ascii_field works way better than this shit, ftr.
ascii_field: ahahahahaha
mircea_popescu: it.does.
ascii_field: ok i'll bite. how do i remove apache and get nginx
ascii_field: all traces of apache
mircea_popescu: nginx works atop apache
jurov: what????
ascii_field: wat?!!
mircea_popescu: in cpanelworld, yeah it does.
mircea_popescu: it's a proxy for apache.
ascii_field: this feels like using winblows
ascii_field: i was even about to use the apache (all i need is to proxy to my proggy which has own http stack) but then i find that there is no /etc/apache2
ascii_field: and that the motherfucking cpanel thing puts it fuck knows where
jurov: i have everything built as nginx OR apache(never both of them) in extra process, PHP/Perl/Python in extra process(es)
trinque: every bakery should have their own software team because no real scotsman would pay someone else to do that
trinque: the lack of a turnkey solution here is absurd, just a shitty industry
jurov: nothing like mod_php monstrosities
ascii_field: *why* is it not in the standard location ?
ascii_field: what kind of dope had to be taken, to conceive of this ?
trinque: why is the standard location not enforced?
jurov: standard location on debian is /etc/httpd
ascii_field: should be enforced using club with nails
jurov: or it was redhat, dunno
trinque will yet have to be persuaded that the relational model does not solve all this
trinque: system state should be a database, if a simple and perhaps even plaintext one
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it's called httpd not appache 2 in centos
mircea_popescu: because REASONS
jurov: ^yes
mircea_popescu: note it is rhel's fault.
trinque: "hm I didn't like that change I made to the system" << rollback
mircea_popescu: not cpanel's.
trinque: "config file is munged" << schema
trinque: and constriants
ascii_field: and where are 'sites-available' ?
jurov: trunque use btrfs?
trinque: jurov: getting closer yeah
trinque: but it has to know data structure and barf when it's not followed
trinque: it needs a reflection system; I want to interrogate the system about its structure
trinque: I want to be able to declare into that representation of structure new structures
trinque: in the same way I declare data
trinque: we were trying to build this at my last job, and fucked it up entirely with braindead concepts from the web space
trinque: the answer is probably not for example "build all into postgres" as we were doing
jurov: trinque you need omniprescient entity that declares forever usable schema
mircea_popescu: ascii_field but while we're doing the "what dope" thing, why the fuck is apache "apache2"
ascii_field: because there was a mega-rewrite once
trinque: jurov: explain?
mircea_popescu: trinque hardest problem in cs this, dude. naming.
trinque: yeah, so you need to be able to change structure easily
mircea_popescu: take the dewey decimal system.
jurov: every schema-based system ended up with bags of backward compatibility
trinque: views and actions against the reflection layer
williamdunne: Guessing some people wanted to kick it old school and not move to the re-write, and there was enough of them that apache updated got called apache2, but thats just a guess
mircea_popescu: it requires a hard guarantee you will never want more than 10 categories at any level.
trinque: jurov: yeah views
mircea_popescu: williamdunne it's exactly what it iwas, and exactly why i asked him the question.
trinque: relational algebra is the best model I'm aware of for deriving all needed representations of data
trinque: and you can easily with something that isn't braindead SQL imagine a model where the canonical representation can be changed, and new views derived from the operation taken to produce the new representation
jurov: wtf views?
trinque: so operations against the system must also be data
jurov: how will views solve that in version 1 you have a name=value and in version 2 you need list?
trinque: jurov: I cannot see how it *doesn't* solve that
mircea_popescu: he makes them all a tree.
mircea_popescu: including the leaves.
mircea_popescu: of the leaves.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it requires a hard guarantee you will never want more than 10 categories at any level. << No, only on the top level... After that you wade into the horror of Cutter numbers
mircea_popescu: only needs infinity diskspace to declare a constant.
ascii_field is blithering at the sheer amount of litter that cpanel leaves in every conceivable aspect of system
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo cutter numbers are a kludgy bolt-on!
trinque: postgresql can easily produce an array from columns in rows
trinque: that is an aggregation
ascii_field: there's perhaps half a meg of generated 'do not edit!!!111!!!' crapolade in every config
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Kludgy and bolted on to original spec
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, it's data!
trinque: I can also easily produce a new table which materializes the output of some view
trinque: I can then delete the base table and call the new materialized table the canonical data
trinque: and this ad nauseum
mircea_popescu: so what's keeping you!!eleven
trinque: the point here is missed; I'm probably not articulating it well
mircea_popescu: speaking of : mind making deedbot- autovoice yet ?
trinque: sure, last weekend was eaten by work, but I'll try to work it in soon
trinque: couple days or so
trinque: mircea_popescu: what I was referring to above is like the system catalog in SQL
trinque: lets say you alter a table with some operation; were that operation data, you could programmatically alter views against the old version to be compatible with the new, to some extent
trinque: obviously if information was lost in the change, you cannot
trinque: but if the AST of the queries is represented as data you can find that out by joining it against the schema
assbot: WinFS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
mircea_popescu: you're slowly rebuidling hoon here or w/e it was called.
jurov: also, KDE folks tried it in non-relational way, something kinda works but they managed to annoy everyone in the process
jurov: go learn from these mistakes
trinque: the mistake was probably "non-relational
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4877 @ 0.00030165 = 1.4711 BTC [+]
trinque: relational algebra carries the stink of SQL, and this is unfortunate
jurov: and what was WinFS mistake?
trinque: I have to run, dunno what hoon is but I'll see if I can find info on it
jurov: enlighten us
trinque: jurov: calm down buddy; I don't have the one true way
trinque: dunno enough about winfs to say
Adlai readlogs
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:28:40; williamdunne: Maybe there is a good reason why this would not work, but could you not just generate an XML file that contains the names of all the files, a hash of each file, and then sign the XML? Could be automated fairly easily and would work on top of existing solutions
williamdunne: huh? Already explained why that was retarded
mircea_popescu: he parses.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
Adlai: tl;r: /me needs to write a thingy that munges btc-dev into a darcs repo, jurov needs to add a general-dev mailing list so mircea_popescu can send his apache paches, and we'll all live ethanolly ever after. ssavvy?
mircea_popescu: it wasn't going to be a patch
Adlai: how so?
mircea_popescu: it was going to be a signed version of 448 lines of code
mircea_popescu: some other dude wrote.
Adlai: ok, you sign some other dude's patch. same diff
jurov: he can publish it on trilema, too. don't see how bag of disparate patches would be useful
Adlai: because infrastructure!
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't see it either, but! gotta ask.
mircea_popescu: this is a problem which will have to be solved, eventually. maybe not by us, maybe not in our lifetimes,
mircea_popescu: but once women in tech or something.
Adlai actually spend the alcohols chatting with a dark-skinned lady who was 100% coherent despite also partaking of alcohols
Adlai: so, there is hope for the oppressed-in-tech yet!
Adlai: the typos resurface thus zzz
jurov: you mean, she exhibits ballmer peak, thus suitable for tech?
Adlai: no she exhibited sentient concern for third party (my dog) while verifiably drunk
Adlai: she was all "this is not a good place for a dog" and i was all "bullshit my dog loves this bar because it's EV patron loves dogs and my dog is lovable"
jurov: and when she was sober, there was no dog concern?
Adlai has never met her sober, he's home alone now, aside from dog
trinque: obvious "brought home the wrong bitch" joke there
Adlai: stfu my dog is a mutt
Adlai: !down trinque
Adlai: shit
trinque: hawhaw
Adlai: !down Adlai
jurov: trinque you were supposed to run, not concern yourself with bitches
trinque: already back
trinque: what is hoon
trinque: ah the urbit thing
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how -the fuck- does one run a python www proggy on cpanel box
ascii_field: or for that matter anything other than pgp
mircea_popescu: you got ssh dontcha ?
mircea_popescu: !up Adlai
Adlai: fu mircea_popescu
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: apache won't play along with python without a plugin 'mod_wsgi' which does not appear to exist in cpanel
mircea_popescu: !down Adlai
mircea_popescu: ascii_field your pain makes me feel better.
ascii_field: and cannot be retrofitted without being clobbered by cpanel the next time it is used to make any alteration
Adlai victorious
mircea_popescu: ascii_field : apxs -i -c -n mod_wsgi.c
Adlai: (it took a couple tries)
mircea_popescu: then insert the resulting so into the apache config prepended lists
mircea_popescu: and you'll be fine
Adlai still doesn't understand why people are fuxing with patchy crap
Adlai: why not run a real webserver?
ascii_field: gcc: mod_wsgi.c: No such file or directory
mircea_popescu: ascii_field obviously you have to first download the mod.
ascii_field: goddamnit
mircea_popescu: don't lose my box nao!
ascii_field: betcha it was 'lost' as soon as i logged into cpanel
Adlai: or once you installed it
mircea_popescu: you logged into cpanel as root ?!@
ascii_field: (i never had a key fingerprint for it)
Adlai: or did the install not involve running anything?
ascii_field: this box is running ten thousand tonnes of extraneous cpanelism
Adlai: logged into cpanel as root ?!@ << asif you need root to fandango
Adlai channels vonnegut: "To avoid root, just wait for ree boot"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the apxs ... thing fails with wsgi_python.h:24:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory and half a meg of other crapolade
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: please consider supplying a normal machine.
jurov: btw, if a bit lucky, mod_fastcgi was shipped and it's more widely supported than wsgi
ascii_field: because this borders on the utterly ridiculous.
Adlai: "wsgi" sounds awfully like "usagi" when said out loud
Adlai: aw shucks
ben_vulpes: <trinque> not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute << not worth it imho, leave it for someone like williamdunne
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so it has no python ios the idea ?
ben_vulpes: <mats> overengineered, cvs is often good enough << haha nice try winbro
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: eh?
williamdunne: !s not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute
assbot: 1 results for 'not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute' :
jurov: benjy just needed to vent some steam
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00030489 = 3.4757 BTC [+]
williamdunne: "Adlai envisions 'wothub' as a content-addressable signed patchstore" well its doable, but I only have 'x' amount of time
trinque: the idea needs further development before anyone executes
trinque: may end up comprised entirely of local tooling
williamdunne: Yeah, I've not done much when it comes to native applications so anything client-side isn't really my boat
williamdunne: Don't even know my way around gcc properly
jurov: i don't get it. "by content addressable" i understand somthing like putting sha1 sum in the URL
jurov: and what is "patchstore" supposed to to what "store" is not
williamdunne still doesn't understand whats wrong with git and pgp sigs
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: git makes it easy to pretend to work on a codebase by reindenting things
ben_vulpes: makes large merges too easy, is at least one of asciilifeform's objections
ben_vulpes: makes it less likely for people to review changes.
jurov: and i think other was that git stores them in opaque database. you cannot go to .git and start reading
trinque: the earlier thread I think well represented the lay of the land
trinque: having the canonical representation plaintext and readable I think is a fine thing
mats: ben_vulpes: windows for fun and profit
trinque: having history machine readable and enforced is I think also a fine thing
trinque: from there, perhaps no existing tool satisfies both
jurov: i don't remember anything about enforcing history
trinque: git may be several conflated problems
trinque: jurov: I remember saying it.
trinque: and it's in teh logs
ben_vulpes: <jurov> benjy just needed to vent some steam << naw i just wanted to restart an ancient thread
jurov: oh i GC'd you
jurov: not you, trinque
jurov: anyway, primary is there's verifiable autorship and readable content of patches, plus clear repeatable way to combine the patches
williamdunne: One of those is a social issue, the other is solved by not accepting pulls from dickheads, no?
trinque: jurov: indeed, that last bit is what I've been harping on
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: what is a pull?
jurov: triuque yes, but it does not necessarily equal to managing history
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I don't know if this exists outside of GitHub (I rather assumed it does) but when you fork a repo so its your own version of it, you make changes to your own copy and then request that your changes are merged into the core repo
trinque: pull requests are github
mircea_popescu: <trinque> the idea needs further development before anyone executes << he has a point, and while attempted executions would prlly be useful iterations, it IS a timesink.
ben_vulpes: no, that's the point i wish to make. you're conflating github with git.
ben_vulpes: and i'm not even an expert on the finer points of the vcexen in the wild.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i suspect in this sense git may be TOO easy to use. at least in some aspects.
williamdunne: Ah, my bad.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dude i guarantee you that git is too easy to use.
ben_vulpes: not only for mission-critical shit like therealbitcoin, but even my own work.
Adlai: jurov: actually, you can go to .git and start reading to a much larger degree than you can do so for .darcs; git provides a provably-attributable signed directory (ie, signed file hierarchy), whereas darcs is a signed diff from... whatever th efuck came before it
jurov: yes, linus t. pulls changes from email, not using github
trinque: this idea that the tool controls the user's behavior is absurd
trinque: maybe when dealing with children
trinque: this is a distinct point from advocating git
trinque: the tool does not drive the fucking user
williamdunne: Git has pull requests in this version:
mircea_popescu: <trinque> the tool does not drive the fucking user << o really.
mircea_popescu: what is this idealism!
Adlai: williamdunne: the problem is that git doesn't provide human-verifiable provenance
Adlai: (whereas darcs does, but it has its own clusterfuck of troubles)
trinque: mircea_popescu: when holding my gun should I wear an arm brace such that I am prevented from blowing my brains out?
mircea_popescu: no, but that's not the angle being discussed.
mircea_popescu: the angle being discussed is : give a man a hammer, suddenly he's looking for nails.
mircea_popescu: tools drive behaviour. in spades.
trinque: that is a fair point
trinque: but should a hammer be called for, one limited such that it cannot be weaponized will also be gimped for hammering
Adlai concludes that he should a) write the btc-dev-darcs-wrapper, and b) keep it to himself, so other people have to write their own
trinque: ^ I don't like that for the record; let every man forge his own AK
trinque: surely there's a balance to be struck.
Adlai: AKs are fucking simple
trinque: alright, you forge one while I'm loading
Adlai: no offense but have you ever fired an assault rifle?
mircea_popescu: Adlai how about b) and make it good enough so its effect upon the world is to make more people of the like adlai can stand
mircea_popescu: as opposed to more idiots.
Adlai: mircea_popescu: aiui, anything that does not consist of 'cat | /dev/eip' is not good enough
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as tools that make people smarter.
trinque: Adlai | no offense but have you ever fired an assault rifle? << this is in no way relevant to what I said
mircea_popescu: and there are tools that make people dumber.
trinque: and an automatic no, rifles yes
Adlai: rifles are for hunters. war is not a hunt, it is war
mircea_popescu: isn't man the best game ?
Adlai: 'long pig'
trinque: obviously, and so you're going to have every soldier cast the metal for his own gun?
trinque: if you have time for that, great; must not be much of a war
mircea_popescu: trinque you know he was being facetious right ?
jurov: since git nor darcs will solve the conflicts... ou propose using the AKs?
jurov: *you
trinque: mircea_popescu: must've missed that
Adlai sleeψ
trinque: Adlai: cya
Adlai: nite ite
mircea_popescu: << expenditure is not, by virtue of that alone, "an investment".
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 18:43:52; williamdunne: davout: If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium
assbot: The sad story of me sniffing varnish on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: all the derpy parents that "invest" in their children are making a stylistic choice of words, nothing more. it's a waste not an investment.
williamdunne: At what point does expenditure become investment?
ben_vulpes: never.
ben_vulpes: investment is predicated on a return.
mircea_popescu: ima have to dig up that ancient article somehow...
williamdunne: If you expect expenditure to result in a return?
mircea_popescu: rationally ?
ben_vulpes: this return cannot be "happiness" or any such.
mircea_popescu: does your expenditure CAUSE the return ? is it merely coincidental with the return ? is it merely halucinatorily related ?
williamdunne: I mean monetary
ben_vulpes: much as the girlies would like to "invest in their quality of life", such is just purchasing a big of hedonism.
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh have I had that conversation
ben_vulpes: heh who with a girl hasn't?
mircea_popescu has been blessfully spared of such nonsense.
ben_vulpes: except for those guys whose lunch we eat and girls we fuck
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
ben_vulpes: and of course mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: <trinque> obviously, and so you're going to have every soldier cast the metal for his own gun? << Unreasonabru, but Officers outfitting their soldiers to the Officer's chosen spec has ample historical precedent
trinque: much more reasonable
mircea_popescu: williamdunne let's go through this, it will be instructive. so, case III, halucinatorily related.
mircea_popescu: guy pays fortune teller for good stuff in the future. good stuff happens in the future.
mircea_popescu: the relation between the "investment" and the "return" is purely hallucinated.
mircea_popescu: case II : coincidental. guy buys lottery ticket. someone wins the lottery.
williamdunne: someone, or guy?
mircea_popescu: while it's true that the somebody who wins might even be the guy, the fact remains that someone'd win whether the guy bought or didn't buy ticket.
mircea_popescu: same thing with "investing in children". sure, you send schmuck to college, and someone 20 years later is going to be well educated.
mircea_popescu: maybe your schmuck. maybe not.
mircea_popescu: case I : causal. this satisfies both implication : with investment there NECESSARILY exists return ; without investment there NECESSARILY doesn't exist return.
mircea_popescu: like, guy going to homestead in 1800s utah. if he goes, there's going to be his homestead. if he doesn't go... there isn't going to be.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> what'd i run it on ? << it's not actually such a bad idea to render the whole thing as flat files and do something cleverish w/comments
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes more 90% ism!
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> in cpanelworld, yeah it does. << haha what is this madness
mircea_popescu: i think asciilifeform had an aneurism meanwhile
williamdunne: If I invest in college, and the outcome is a law degree, with which I become a lawyer, how is that not investment?
williamdunne: I understand with a gender studies degree though..
mircea_popescu: if you pay for your own degree, it is.
mircea_popescu: if your dad pays... eh.
williamdunne: What if someone else pays for a degree and in return they get a % of my salary?
mircea_popescu: you being their slave ?
williamdunne: Their slave? Its a mutual agreement from the beginning
mircea_popescu: yes, yes. but is it a mutual agreement of that kind, where you're teh slavegirl.
williamdunne: If you acknowledge La Serenissima are you its slavegirl because you pay 0.1%?
mircea_popescu: << ssh being, of course, openssl. you read the earlier link re "why no ssl" ?
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 19:57:06; Pierre_Rochard: it’s ssh friendly, send your ssh pubkey signed with your gpg key
mircea_popescu: williamdunne no, but i also don't ask it to sent me to college.
williamdunne: Seems like a pretty rough line, either way its a choice, and the outcome is losing future income in return for something
mircea_popescu: you're misrepresenting dynamic equilibrium as static.
mircea_popescu: essentially, you(before the deal) and you(after the deal) are different and irreconciliably so.
williamdunne: Ah okay, I see the difference now
mircea_popescu: while before the deal your incentive might have been to realise future income,
mircea_popescu: after the deal your incentive is to sell more future income for its present value.
mircea_popescu: as they say, "nothing ruins a start-up quite like a bad money source early on"
mircea_popescu: this is that.
mircea_popescu: it's kinda how america ruined itself, too, ironically enough.
mircea_popescu: << for the record, you don't want a single head. you want a number of heads, and measurably stake-able.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:04:04; Adlai: so, it's less convenient for signing a patch relative to an upstream repo; but is exactly what you want if you just want to have a single head to put on a stake when heardbleed 2.0 gets uncovered
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 23:25:12; mircea_popescu: << ssh being, of course, openssl. you read the earlier link re "why no ssl" ?
assbot: OpenSSH No Longer Has To Depend On OpenSSL - Slashdot ... ( )
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Confusing OpenSSH and OpenSSL again.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:10:09; trinque: max commit size and beatings
Pierre_Rochard: BingoBoingo: they really should rebrand… maybe take LibreSSH haha
BingoBoingo: Pierre_Rochard: Nah, Theo should have trademarked the word "Open"
Pierre_Rochard: yup, just checked, openbsd came before openssl
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:12:42; davout: williamdunne: everybody fucking knows that
BingoBoingo: They've got an OpenBSD, OpenSMTP, OpenNTP, OpenSSH, They might as well stick OpenSSL with finding a new front and themselves keep LibreSSL for confusion and lulz
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform so it has no python ios the idea << it has python and even, apparently, the headers, but can't see'em
mircea_popescu: << nah, that's a misstatement. take the simpler case of poems. you do not need any particular microphone, varnish or anything else to know whether my poem's any good or not.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:14:38; Adlai: really this is all masturbation until we have a by-hand constructible fab
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform welcopme to linux world alfie. i hear it's where the smart boys go.
mircea_popescu: and never are heard from again, except for muffled cries in the solitude of the night.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes i suspect in this sense git may be TOO easy to use << precisely this
asciilifeform: reminds me of an old neighbour of mine, who kept a 'colt 1911' - in his toolbox. with the drills, etc.
asciilifeform: hey, it makes holes, right?
mircea_popescu: and before anyone doubts that there can be such a thing : you COULD fuck a woman with a 3 inch drill bit attached to a percution drill.
asciilifeform: and -so easy-
mircea_popescu: you do not do this.
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> heh who with a girl hasn't? << nor me either
mircea_popescu: this discussion makes me not feel so bad about havin sniffed varnish all day.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform welcopme to linux world alfie << wtf linux world is this. i must've been living in a parallel one since quitting bsd ('04)
mircea_popescu: yeah. it's called solipsism and it ain't a world!
mircea_popescu: "oh but MY computer works..."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25089 @ 0.00029383 = 7.3719 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "really ? how do i make one ?" "oh..."
asciilifeform: fleet of.
asciilifeform: 'how do i make?' 'like this..'
mircea_popescu: i am still awaiting your gentoo canonical build being published / your canonical web hoster being enacted on this or any other box etc.
mircea_popescu: dun let me get in the way of meta-linux, by all means!
mircea_popescu: << it'd be nice if something got compiled before i die.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:23:19; trinque: and "speed" of development should not be a value
assbot: This Rollin' 60s Crips member says he pulled /justin_fenton to safety today during a flare up.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field: trinque: and if any of you produce a 100kB patch, and i barf on general principle << there is a problem here. the code as it is is pretty long. just a simple "remove most of it" will be in the kbs.
mircea_popescu: nothing but -s in the diff
trinque: yeh, I prefer the hate one's peers rather than arbitrary rules
mircea_popescu: i doubt the magical patch that fixes the 1001 things will fit in 100kb for instance.
trinque: *the hate of
trinque: patches of whatever size make sense, and there's a process by which everyone else can call the patch shit in public
mircea_popescu: trinque merely calling things shit is no golden bullet.
trinque: doesn't seem there is one, neh?
mircea_popescu: unless some sort of consensus can emerge the public'll just split
mircea_popescu: ascii_field: i'd be open to a purely gnumake-based thing << this before make starts building static or only after ? :D
mircea_popescu: << sorry bout that. was trying to improve things. went about as well as you'd expect.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 21:09:48; cazalla: qntra/trilema down here so can't update :\
mircea_popescu: << recommending shit to me is not necessarily -ev, especially if it works. i have an elephantine memory.
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 21:38:56; mike_c: nginx always works. I have never been disappointed in it. Recommending shit to people is always a -EV process, but..
mircea_popescu: << the thing yarvin was building leaky submarines out of
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 22:12:44; trinque: I have to run, dunno what hoon is but I'll see if I can find info on it
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i am still awaiting your gentoo canonical << not even objecting to the linux flavour of that box, but to the cpanel idiocy
asciilifeform: it poisons every single config on the box, and assumes php
mircea_popescu: but the python stuff you ran into is pure linux,
mircea_popescu: the misplaced apache is pure linux
asciilifeform: the requiring apache (and not just any, but cpanel's custom) is cpanelism
mircea_popescu: except it doesn't require apache to run a script
mircea_popescu: you can just have your python run off cron, and dump stuff into mysql
mircea_popescu: then fish it out for web display
asciilifeform: mno. need to serve some static pgs
mircea_popescu: so create them as files
asciilifeform: it has to be nginx or a (human) apache
mircea_popescu: apache will serve them if in the right directories
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> you can just have your python run off cron << how both will restart synchronized ?
asciilifeform: this is ludicrous
asciilifeform: i want the two to restart together
asciilifeform: and i want -one- log
mircea_popescu: the wto who
asciilifeform: static and dynamic content servers
asciilifeform: normally this is achieved by having apache (or nginx) pass through to, e.g., python
mircea_popescu: you want a python script to be executed on page load ?
asciilifeform: it isn't a script
asciilifeform: it's a continuous process
asciilifeform: that serves up http
asciilifeform: read the src if interested (under the user i created)
asciilifeform: simplest possible thing
mircea_popescu: so you have your own web server written in python ?
asciilifeform: not own, l0l
mircea_popescu: move cpanel's apache to a diff port, and allocate 80 to yours.
asciilifeform: the whole thing was written in about a day, if you recall, in a mighty hurry
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again i don't want python serving up statics
asciilifeform: because it is ludicrous
mircea_popescu: then have python drop the statics in /home/whatever and apache will automagically serve them ?
asciilifeform: would like to run the fucking app without changes
asciilifeform: like normal people.
asciilifeform: on normal computer.
mircea_popescu: cpanel has nothing to do with this.
asciilifeform: normal people can get mod_wsgi if they want it.
asciilifeform: cpanel - no.
asciilifeform: normal people can get -pure- nginx
asciilifeform: cpanel - again, no
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> move cpanel's apache to a diff port, and allocate 80 to yours. <
asciilifeform: and apache still runs, eats cycles for fuck knows what
mircea_popescu: and if python.h fails, you prolly don't have th epaths set up right, it'll fai lthe same with or without some derpy package manager.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well actually it wouldn't run, especially if you kill that port in firewall.
mircea_popescu: but you can stop the service in any case.
asciilifeform: still end up with cpanelism autogenned crapolade in every single fucking thing in /etc
asciilifeform: hence the traditional 'cpanel is not removable' dictum
mircea_popescu: linux doesn't work. any of it. picking some random idiocy to make an example of is futile.
mircea_popescu: gentoo is a piece of shit. debian is a piece of shit. centos is a piece of shit.
mircea_popescu: apache is a piece of shiot. so is nginx. so is everytrhiong else.
asciilifeform genuinely wonders if mircea_popescu ever runs any www gadget that isn't a php bloggatron
mircea_popescu: nothing works, everything';s made by idiots.
mircea_popescu: nope. why would i even bother with www except for a blog
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is almost but not entirely right. we are, for instance, presently speaking through an ancient atlantian tech that sorta works.
mircea_popescu: oh get the fuck out. ircd ? THIS works ?
asciilifeform: i said 'sorta worx'
mircea_popescu: SO DOES EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!
mircea_popescu: foss, the wonderful world of 90%
mircea_popescu: "we almost did a job!!1"
mircea_popescu: this, btw, is my constraint. fuck "fits in head", i dun care.
mircea_popescu: DO.THEWHOLE.JOB.
asciilifeform: 'fits in head' is how you actually -know- that x 'did whole job'
asciilifeform: anything else - is conjecture.
asciilifeform: it is also how you know that x did -nothing but- whole job.
asciilifeform: so 'fits in head' is 'part of a balanced diet' with 'does whole job' (otherwise brick 'fits in head')
mircea_popescu: kinda why i'm discovering all i really like off unix these days is like... curl. grep.
asciilifeform: eh the only good part of unix is |
mircea_popescu: somethinglikethat.
mircea_popescu: and tee.
asciilifeform: and good old tr
mircea_popescu: !up Cromag1
Cromag1: HI!
asciilifeform: meow mix?
Cromag1: YES!
Cromag1: down me!
asciilifeform: !down Cromag1
trinque: asciilifeform's shit detector is impeccable
asciilifeform: yw Cromag1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00029075 = 3.7652 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform from the certain corners of the internet department
assbot: How I Was Backstabbed By Dr. Oz And His Female Producers ... ( )
mircea_popescu: is this pickup artist drama ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where does cpanel keep apache's vhost configs, and why is this not documented anywhere ?
asciilifeform: i've tried three claimed locations so far and none work
mircea_popescu: i have nfi
trinque: asciilifeform: there's a question here related to my make the thing a database rant
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: fatshaming drama
Adlai: vhost-: help out the poor asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: o, it's okay to be fat now ?
trinque: asciilifeform: I think I read on your blog something about how source code should be stored as ASTs not text?
trinque: something along those lines
Adlai: fat is the new phat
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: According to Dr. Oz and Gawker media
trinque: imo if the state of the system is represented as structured data a lot of these "munge the config more easily" programs go away
Adlai: trinque: what, you want a table with two columns, CAR and CDR?
mircea_popescu: delusion is always sweet
mircea_popescu: and sweets fatten.
trinque: Adlai: cddditout
Adlai: no u
trinque: let it never be said that cl does not go to 11
jurov: this is SOP except in chumpatron where mircea lives.
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 00:17:42; mircea_popescu: so you have your own web server written in python ?
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, that guy is a wimp. that kinda situation doesn't have to end so poorly
assbot: MEN ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN - YouTube ... ( )
trinque: hawhawhaw
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I'm just astounded at how he suggests he anticipated his appearance on the show could be anything other than a trap and how he failed to prepare accordingly
danielpbarron: yeah i'm waiting for the end of the article where he admits to satire
pete_dushenski: "Orioles will play Wednesday's game vs White Sox with NO audience in the stands." << heh. one for BingoBoingo.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: At least Ferguson is decently removed from the St Louis city center
pete_dushenski: eh. st louis could use a kick in the pants from what i hear.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: In which manner?
asciilifeform: how the everliving fuck is cpanel used with anything other than php/static wwwtron
mircea_popescu: jurov what is ?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo mainly in terms of st louis being known for murders and crimes, and that a proper boiling over of the tensions between police and citizens could bring about positive resolution, whoever 'wins'
mircea_popescu: lol @the prostitution=alimony thing.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Eh, There's a balance.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo a balance between what ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I think some hmility was imposed when some of the black kids got too amped up on "kill whitey" and started going after Bosnians. Seems they learned better than to do that within a month or so.
mircea_popescu: "Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay"
mircea_popescu: lol this derp
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: crime/not crime in stl
asciilifeform: i can't even config a fucking apache vhost on this thing.
asciilifeform: and apparently neither can anyone else
mircea_popescu: so basically... cpanel is super-security. even if malware expert gets root... what good is it ? :D
asciilifeform: can't go far with exploded head.
mircea_popescu: "I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that" << roosh is a fucktard srsly.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo bosnians being yugoslavia vets or... ?
asciilifeform: 'proceeding from informal to formal by formal means' (TM)
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo and where's ferguson at these days ? i haven't heard much out of there recently.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Largely refugees came over in the 1990's colonized south city. The generation of Bosnians being targeted were largely the kids... The older ones seemed very unhappy about that...
pete_dushenski: in terms of street violence, dead cops, local politics.
BingoBoingo: Ferguson's been mostly tamed by Sharptoon and other FBI folk
BingoBoingo: Back to just the normal shootings, police retreated, longtime businesses closing up and leaving
pete_dushenski: hm rough.
mircea_popescu: they're moving online ?
pete_dushenski: cities like ferguson would be best served by a fleet of amazon delivery drones.
pete_dushenski: dropping packages ordered online and heading back to homebase in the country far, far away
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wasted many hours and actually moved phuctor to that thing, and it runs. just can't be reached from anywhere outside of box per se, aha.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, is it at least crunching the numbers ?
asciilifeform: would, if there were any
mircea_popescu: i thought we had a million key db at some point ?
mircea_popescu: what, your scp's broken ?
asciilifeform: i'm not dealing with syncing keys from the old install back into this one
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Mostly moving to retirement
asciilifeform: (which is what i'd have to do if they were to be used simultaneously)
mircea_popescu: so then what does this do ?
asciilifeform: sit there sadly (tm)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I think you underestimate the potential drone casualties
asciilifeform: because box lacks normal apache
mircea_popescu: aha. well ok. did you break it in the process ?
asciilifeform: break in what sense
mircea_popescu: in the sense that is it still usable as a cpanel box or will i have to have it reflushed.
asciilifeform: can be used
asciilifeform: login - same
BingoBoingo starting to believe that Stan's gentoo build is so far from normal "linux" might as well be called Stannix nao
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is perfectly normal
mircea_popescu: a further three day experiment in the "linux is worthless and broadly unusable" meme. i guess it needed more documentation.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo not in the slightest. just that drones are cheaper than people. certainly with the us legal system such as it is. see mp's piece on 'how to go out in a blaze of glory'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Normal in terms of distance from your box to median boxen
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: again, entirely normal
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: phuctor, for instance, presently runs on 'the world's worst hoster', aws
asciilifeform: and did not require any wizardry there
BingoBoingo: When did AWS overtake for that honor?
asciilifeform: when opened doors ?
asciilifeform: (charges by cpu cycle)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently not the worst.
mircea_popescu: the only worse alternative to the worlds 2nd most common hoster seems to be... the world's MOST common.
mircea_popescu: ya know ?
decimation: aws does seem to have some degree of ddos protection
williamdunne: Heh? AWS worse than GoDaddy?
mircea_popescu: well, alf worse. "whatever i'm using currently"
trinque: re: the power of unix this was fun ->
trinque: probably done like shit; was written on the can after all
decimation: asciilifeform: have you ever actually tried to grok ipsec? it's a nightmare
asciilifeform: decimation: no and can't see why i'd ever even want to
decimation: ipsec is worse than you think
decimation: yet somehow it's the defacto standard for 'vpn'
asciilifeform: 'somehow'
BingoBoingo: Godaddy shoves its own Cpanel in everything
pete_dushenski: alrighty, time for some exercise. later gents!
mike_c: mircea_popescu: you're not crazy. sorting the timestamps works in chrome, not in FF. I'll investigate.
mircea_popescu: weird shit huh.
mike_c: yes..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00028737 = 6.3796 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i'm bracing myself for the one day when we discover unequal fives somewhere on the internet.
mircea_popescu: only thing that's missing out of today.
trinque: sounds like javascript math
mircea_popescu: yeah, thinking about it hey mike_c maybe cheaper than investigating is altering the date format to numeric ?
BingoBoingo: Nah, what's missing is me cataloguing all of the plants growning in the front flowerbeds, looking them up, and discovering the bulk of them are cardiotoxic.
mike_c: yes, it would be, but then don't I get into arguments with the europeans?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8188 @ 0.00030438 = 2.4923 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49850 @ 0.0003081 = 15.3588 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: if anyone's (for purely academic reasons) interested in this shitshow :
assbot: ModSecurity / Mailing Lists ... ( )
mircea_popescu: modsecurity ITSELF is buggy when interacting with mod_remoteip. the devs understand the problem about as well as you'd expect of the php folk.
assbot: dev-httpd - Re: Some redundant code and comment typos in mod_remoteip - msg#00139 - Recent Discussion ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ie, mod_remoteip was written by chickens.
asciilifeform prescribes a dose of 'computer defender' ( )
assbot: davout WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( )
mircea_popescu: much better.
mircea_popescu: what was it ?
mike_c: k. i also fixed the big wot graph cutting off some names on the sides
mike_c: changing the date format helped. went from AP style "Dec. 12, 2012", "April 12, 2012" to more simple short format "Dec 12, 2012", "Apr 12, 2012"
mike_c: JS date parser was choking on former
asciilifeform: 'What's a manager to do with a heap of stuff that isn't managed and doesn't wish to be?' 'Burn it ?' (from mircea_popescu's site) << pure gold
assbot: Hayek and Business Management | askblog ... ( )
decimation: "Of course, large corporations do exist. That is because as clumsy as they are, they can still be less clumsy than the alternative, which is to break a corporation into a network of contractually related divisions. "
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'What's a manager to do with a heap of stuff that isn't managed and doesn't wish to be?' 'Burn it ?' (from mircea_popescu's site) << pure gold << This is how I've been getting exercise these past couple weeks. Shovel and glyphosate + troclopyr... Actual fire comes later
mircea_popescu: mike_c sounds like secret overflow eh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform story of my lyf.
mircea_popescu: decimation that is not why large corporations exist. large corporations exist because it is cheaper for the socialist state to interact with larger items than with smaller items.
BingoBoingo: "burndown" is the only solution to certain problems in horticulture
decimation: he does hypothesize that later
mircea_popescu: that's why 100 employers of 10 employees each need a pile of paperwork from city hall, whereas one employer of 1000 employees gets free money from city hall
decimation: "I do think that government often tilts the scale in favor of large organizations. The high fixed cost of regulatory compliance is one factor. Government has been a key customer in industries like aerospace, information technology, and finance, and the fixed costs of selling to government are very high, because of all of the hoops that you have to jump through."
mircea_popescu: hoops my foot.
mircea_popescu: blackwater "sold to the goverment" by jumpiong through the following hoops : "if you send anyone to investigate us, we'll just kill them"
mircea_popescu: haliburton didn't even bother, just "lost" a trillion.
decimation: yeah, good point, this
mircea_popescu: if you were going to be raped,
decimation: the corruption in selling physical goods to usg is nowhere near the size of the corruption of 'selling services'
mircea_popescu: would you prefer being raped by ten thousand slimy worms
mircea_popescu: or by a bull ?
decimation: 1024 chickens?
mircea_popescu: governments everywhere always prefer the bull in that equation. tho their ideal is a herd of goats.
mircea_popescu: apparently easier to hallucinate "a relationship" with the bull.
decimation: well, the government believes they can make the bull like them
mircea_popescu: eeexactly.
BingoBoingo: What socialism truly deserves is taking it from a duck of extraordinary size
decimation: and of course it is very much in bull's interest to pretend
decimation: as long as the slop keeps rolling
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:33; decimation: then I heard this podcast: << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they realize that eve
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:35; decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. "
Pierre_Rochard: !rate davout 1 francais, être raisonnable
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
Pierre_Rochard: !v assbot:Pierre_Rochard.rate.davout.1:400210684ec922303e0cfa010509d4eb36cacd24b5ad98a221944aac7c1aa9c6
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for davout with note: francais, être raisonnable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << there, random spamsite has nginx-for-cpanel prepackaged.
assbot: Nginx Admin Installation Instruction ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "Tried to install and got this error message: “access key doesn’t exist create it in WHM” What to do? Thank you."
mircea_popescu: "At root whm go to Main >> Cluster/Remote Access >> Setup Remote Access Key Then click Generate New Key and retry to install"
mircea_popescu: "Thank you very much; this is working very fine now. Great script and glad to get it installed. Success!"
asciilifeform: for the love of god, montrezor! (tm)
decimation: heh linus rejects dbus in kernel with prejudice
assbot: Gmane Loom ... ( )
decimation: "IOW, all the people who say that it's about avoiding context switches are probably just full of shit. It's not about context switches, it's about bad user-level code."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00029196 = 3.3575 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: << check it out, apparently moore law stopped a decade ago.
assbot: 403 Forbidden ... ( )
mircea_popescu: who knew.
TomServo: +asciilifeform | since quitting bsd ('04) << I'd love to hear more about this. Or why the preference for linux?
asciilifeform: TomServo: devices
TomServo: Is that still true today?
asciilifeform: mostly.
asciilifeform: TomServo: check out the pogoplug netbsd saga for one example.
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah, moore's law has been pretty dead since 2005
decimation: note, transistor sizes have still shrunk, but clock rates haven't gone up
asciilifeform: decimation: heat
decimation: and it's painfully obvious that intel and friends have no idea how to actually make use of their sea of transistors
decimation: other than "do more of what we have been doing for 30 years"
asciilifeform: considering that the entire point of the industry was to enable microshit bloat...
asciilifeform: (yes, i'd love to live on a planet where moore's law was for something else)
decimation: I predict that in the future this whole era of 'multi-core' manufacturing will be seen as crazy
BingoBoingo: TomServo: asciilifeform was a FreeBSD man, but device drivers pushed him away, if I recall correctly nao CLANG+LLVM keeps him away
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: openbsd is gcc-based
asciilifeform: it's mainly the devices.
asciilifeform: i also have boxes that run closedsource linux crapolade (e.g., xilinx toolchain)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Indeed. OpenBSD is GCC based and still weird on devices. Also generally weird.
TomServo: pogoplug and such I understand.. but how does it factor in the cpanel debate?
asciilifeform: TomServo: it doesn't
BingoBoingo: Cpanel is another retardation
asciilifeform: TomServo: mircea_popescu found somewhere a server, graciously offered for use in s.nsa. but it turned out to be running a severely mutilated linux.
decimation: < against 'ssl everywhere' < "With SSL Everywhere, these actors get much more privacy to invade the privacy of every human being with an internet connection, because it takes a lot more skill to look into a SSL connection than a plaintext HTTP connection."
assbot: SSL revisited — Varnish version trunk documentation ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Cpanel's primary design goal seems to be disorienting people when they try unperverted stuff such that they get hooked on the dope
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in so far as i can see, it cannot be used for non-php hosting at all.
asciilifeform: at least not without major surgery
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00030895 = 4.696 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In library school for web projects some of the doctoral students I met had a dependecy on it an phpmyadmin for their web work. They did surgeries, I wondered if they contorted so because they needed to burn hours of their life or if they needed to meet "expectations"
decimation: not only does ssl enable the fucktarded certificate crypto, it enables nefarious 'customized' behavior
BingoBoingo: decimation: Also all kinds of weird packet edge cases
asciilifeform: heartbleed2-everywhere
asciilifeform: as well as 'war on folks who sniff own lan'
BingoBoingo: !up felipelalli
decimation: asciilifeform: exactly
asciilifeform: (just as ipv6 is)
decimation: it exactly enables a 'walled-garden' model
mircea_popescu: decimation politically they're pleasant,
BingoBoingo would very much like triclopyr over ip protocol-protocol
mircea_popescu: but technologically inept.
mircea_popescu: to this date i dunno wtf happens that i end up with corrupted ips.
decimation: mircea_popescu: possibly shitty lan hardware?
decimation: in theory it is still possible to sniff ssl traffic, but it's quite complex
decimation: and makes it impossible to have a 'triangular' model of networking
mircea_popescu: either set req.http.X-TVIP = client.ip; in varnish fucks up and sets the wrong thing ; or else, mod_remoteip fucks up the RemoteIPHeader X-TVIP conversion.
mircea_popescu: impossible to debug, and DEFINITELY not worth debugging.
BingoBoingo: !up sccop_test
BingoBoingo: OMG sccop_test is has a Virginm hostmask
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 354171 | Current Difficulty: 4.761056451347126E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 354815 | Next Difficulty In: 644 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 6 hours, 21 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48392476656.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.64231
williamdunne: !addfeed somefeedhere
sccop_test: Pings: 1
danielpbarron: "Otherkin, pansexual/panromantic, polyamorous, and genderfluid/nonbinary"
assbot: Tumblr dot TXT (TumblrTXT) on Twitter ... ( )
assbot: Oglaf! -- Comics. Often dirty. ... ( )
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: You might want to use a different control character
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: You're right, I'll make it @ or summin
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: What about ;;;;;
BingoBoingo: ;;;;;addfeed
gribble: Error: ";;;addfeed" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: ;!;;;addfeed
BingoBoingo: ^control prefix
williamdunne: * test
williamdunne: He won't say anything about valid commands
williamdunne: so *this won't effect it*
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Mircea has wanted oglaf on the feed though, would be nice to have it in a way that isn't me doing "/nick oglafbot"
williamdunne: What do you mean?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Tumblr dot TXT << wtf even was that
asciilifeform: mega-lulzatr0n
danielpbarron: some guy reposted the funniest SEW quotes from tumblr to twitter
williamdunne: kakobrekla: would it be possible to make work, and be valid json? Not sure what format it currently is
williamdunne: That way it doesn't break
decimation: asciilifeform: apparently every agency in the dc/baltimore area is trying to pacify baltimore
decimation: I'm sure you could hear amusing stuff on your scanners
decimation: lol < "The company lost $162.4 million, compared with a loss of $132.4 million in the year-earlier quarter. Revenue jumped to $435.9 million from $250.5 million, but still fell far short of analysts' expectations of $463 million."
assbot: Leak of revenue figures adds to Twitter&apos;s bad day; shares fall 18% - LA Times ... ( )
BingoBoingo: !up yang_
BingoBoingo: !up Asenath_
mircea_popescu: lol wtf is a "mature discussion about harems"
mircea_popescu: williamdunne it just says "No data."
williamdunne: Yeah I know
williamdunne: Without the .json though its invalid json
williamdunne: I'm suggesting that if with .json it returned valid json it could not break btcalpha with the suggested update
assbot: Gunfire wounds one amid protest near Brown shooting scene in Ferguson : News ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
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