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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68200 @ 0.0005588 = 38.1102 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54150 @ 0.00056205 = 30.435 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50250 @ 0.00056407 = 28.3445 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87800 @ 0.00055854 = 49.0398 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80600 @ 0.00056419 = 45.4737 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89400 @ 0.00056941 = 50.9053 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9975 @ 0.00056419 = 5.6278 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 661 @ 0.00266793 = 1.7635 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30850 @ 0.00056419 = 17.4053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.00057011 = 34.5487 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00056978 = 32.2495 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99270 @ 0.00056373 = 55.9615 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15740 @ 0.00056078 = 8.8267 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27452 @ 0.00056078 = 15.3945 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64587 @ 0.0005609 = 36.2268 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90822 @ 0.00055968 = 50.8313 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5805 @ 0.00056525 = 3.2813 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7361 @ 0.00056978 = 4.1942 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98255 @ 0.00057054 = 56.0584 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20795 @ 0.00056948 = 11.8423 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94300 @ 0.00056924 = 53.6793 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40259 @ 0.00055963 = 22.5301 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16232 @ 0.00056594 = 9.1863 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00055787 = 15.1741 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31068 @ 0.00056594 = 17.5826 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35341 @ 0.00056714 = 20.0433 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9032 @ 0.00056704 = 5.1215 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00056562 = 22.0026 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00056374 = 9.8936 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: [HKmtg]To Everyone: We have CONSENSUS! In April we get SW, 3 months later, core HF code ready
punkman: snowden join the apple circlejerk
punkman: in other robo-lawyer news
assbot: Joshua Browder's Bot for parking tickets - Business Insider ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00056125 = 28.736 BTC [-]
punkman: aww
assbot: Italian writer Umberto Eco dies at 84 - BBC News ... ( )
mircea_popescu: aww
fluffypony: :(
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53350 @ 0.00056078 = 29.9176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190200 @ 0.00055866 = 106.2571 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: T_T
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198477 @ 0.00056702 = 112.5404 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30164 @ 0.00056818 = 17.1386 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3290 @ 0.00056861 = 1.8707 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30100 @ 0.0005693 = 17.1359 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: eco!
asciilifeform: who is even left, now, who was anything, culturally.
asciilifeform: in other western civ nyooz,
assbot: Sex with animals remains banned in Germany as legal bid fails - BBC News ... ( )
mircea_popescu: what's the jew's name
mircea_popescu: chomsky
asciilifeform: l0l, he's a...
asciilifeform: sorta like zhirinovsky
asciilifeform: pet opposition
asciilifeform: << wut
assbot: Twitter ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25166 @ 0.00055787 = 14.0394 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: want
assbot: Black garlic (food) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
assbot: EDWARD SNOWDEN IS MARK ZUCKERBERG’S COUSIN - Anarchadia - Underground Anarchism Since 2010 ... ( )
punkman: I'm picturing a bum shouting "EDWARD SNOWDEN IS MARK ZUCKERBERG’S COUSIN" at people in a park
mircea_popescu: i have like eight dozen cousins, and this is counting just the ones i shouldn't be fucking.
mircea_popescu: what's such a bigdeal about cousinage ?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo: << part2 of crapple l0ltron
assbot: ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ./Classic:0.11.2/985 nodes - (16.02%)
shinohai: There is a Classic node running on "The Municipal Communications Utility of the City of Cedar Falls, Iowa"
asciilifeform: what happened to the other ~1000 ?
shinohai: maybe they couldn't keep all the aws instances up.
asciilifeform: aws went up a penny? sooo sad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80953 @ 0.00055787 = 45.1613 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: i still don't grasp why the ph0rkerz can't simply ask hitler for real machines / actual bandwidth
mircea_popescu: shinohai> There is a Classic node running on "The Municipal Communications Utility of the City of Cedar Falls, Iowa" << write the boss and ask. sounds like a decent qntra piece.
mircea_popescu: "classic running on stolen infrastructure - perpetrator reprimanded"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because a) hitler doesn't have them and b) hitler is not stalin, to answer every ivanov dick and harry.
asciilifeform: what, bot-herding directorate had hdd crash?
asciilifeform: (b) i can see, but ph0rkatron is what if not ordered by the fuhrer?
mircea_popescu: fuhrer orders many things, pays for few or none.
mircea_popescu: what, turkey didn't get ordered to suicide ? what, you think anyone pays for it ?
asciilifeform: it gets 'paid' in not-set-on-fire?
mircea_popescu: pfff.
mircea_popescu: that is entirely in the derp's head. but i do mean entirely.
asciilifeform: every fire is in the head until not, sorta how it works, or bag men would all have empty bags
asciilifeform: and what, after syria usg is out of matches?
mircea_popescu: yeah. meanwhile us army can't actually face turkish army, so there is that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00055945 = 18.7416 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: usg can turn their - or any other nato bitchdom's - air defenses off with one button.
mircea_popescu: notrly, the turks have a lot of russian stuff too.
mircea_popescu: and apparently even the very little syria had was ample
asciilifeform: ru will helpfully switch off the ru boxes
asciilifeform: nobody loves the poor turkz.
mircea_popescu: pretty sad really.
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: like last time.
asciilifeform: in 1918
mircea_popescu: or to quote
assbot: Continut platit no more. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: oh forfuxxsake
asciilifeform: how do i view the thing??!
asciilifeform: on what.
asciilifeform: vax?
mircea_popescu: don't tell me it magically doesn't work again ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: now how the fuck does this happen, it's not changed since when you said ti worked days ago ?!
mircea_popescu: < does that work ?
assbot: Continut platit no more. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: ~this~ works.
mircea_popescu: nuts.
asciilifeform: the one that worked, worked on a crapple box.
asciilifeform: 'chrome'
mircea_popescu: and right now ?
asciilifeform: the archive link works on 'chromium'
asciilifeform: but not on crapple
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: i have nfi.
mircea_popescu dreams of one day having a fucking html document presentation stack that allows this to work.
mircea_popescu: it's the one innovation since a href that's worth having.
asciilifeform: ted nelson described it in ~1970
asciilifeform: !s transclusion
assbot: 0 results for 'transclusion' :
asciilifeform: hm.
asciilifeform: !s xanadu
assbot: 6 results for 'xanadu' :
mircea_popescu: good for him so where is it.
asciilifeform: nowhere, he got openbsd'd.
asciilifeform: (don't even bother looking at the thing that got 'released' a few yrs back.)
asciilifeform: nelson is an interesting case of failed inventor, i have all of his published materials here and studied very carefull
asciilifeform: y
asciilifeform: at one point, after decades of futile crackpottery, he made phriends with some money fella and actually got funded, but turned out that this did not help
mircea_popescu: aha ?
asciilifeform: 'brogrammers' frittered away the funds, whole thing collapsed in a giant black hole of mismanagement, graft, and varied charlatanry
mircea_popescu: it rarely helps.
mircea_popescu: giving money / cunt / whatever to "engineer" minded idiots is a monumental waste.
asciilifeform: he was not equipped to birth the thing with own hands
asciilifeform: (not that anyone would have given money for that)
asciilifeform: money is 'given' so that you can 'buy 200 mil of ads from arsebook, who gave it' as per mircea_popescu's article.
mircea_popescu: but in other news, /me is looking forward to reinstated phyctor
asciilifeform: me too
asciilifeform: ~6G occupied by trb on dulap after 40 days. nb.
mircea_popescu: !rate gaxaro 1 Euloran
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gaxaro.1:d3988c802eaefea702616d83201ea61045b6ddd590ef3129643656c8b3dd2dd3
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gaxaro with note: Euloran
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123277 @ 0.00056908 = 70.1545 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Someone gets it
assbot: FBI iPhone Circle Jerk Theater | Qntra ... ( )
pete_dushenski: << costco is one of the few mega-corps who doesn't cheat on what they call 'extra virgin' olive oil.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Or was better at not getting caught
pete_dushenski: << i can't tell if this is from 2008 (as listed as 'upload date') or 1977. white chalk on green blackboard and modest indian lecturer are timeless!
assbot: Lecture 36 ROM-EPROM,EEPROM and Flash EPROM - YouTube ... ( )
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: like crapple
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: crapple or anyone else big enough to put on a show for the people
pete_dushenski: 'lights, camera, craption!'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: in other news, the things yo ugotta do to get girl to tan without lines :
assbot: ... ( )
punkman: she'd get tan lines from the chains tho
mircea_popescu: there is no escape!11
punkman: clear plastic chains!
mircea_popescu: still block uv
pete_dushenski: << more like gets paid in "we iz ko-moo-nitee"
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 15:22:47; asciilifeform: it gets 'paid' in not-set-on-fire?
pete_dushenski: feelings as currency - worth ~usd at this point
mircea_popescu: payment in feelers!
mircea_popescu: in which field eulora is again one step ahead - you can literally ask to be paid in feelings.
pete_dushenski: dingdingding
mircea_popescu: they're really cheap, too
pete_dushenski: 'best price for you, my friend'
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo is just starting to confront the magnitude of crapple stockholm syndrome on that qntra's comments
pete_dushenski: << is today the big day ?
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 15:42:01; mircea_popescu: but in other news, /me is looking forward to reinstated phyctor
mircea_popescu: *fingers crossed*
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: possibly.
asciilifeform: likely to soak up all of tomorrow too.
pete_dushenski: well, break a leg out there
asciilifeform: in other nyooz,
asciilifeform: << preeeeeeet!
assbot: ... ( )
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: if cupertino syndrome can happen to alf... what hope is there for the common man ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i don't crapple off the clock, normally
pete_dushenski: iph0ne1`11!!!
pete_dushenski: 'infinite loop syndrome' works too
pete_dushenski: (apple's hq is located at #1 infinite loop in cupertino ca)
pete_dushenski: looks like we'll hit block 400`000 this weekend eh
BingoBoingo: We have synthesis apparently
assbot: ... ( )
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 435.3, Best ask: 435.31, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 435.36, 24 hour volume: 23935.00095199, 24 hour low: 417.57, 24 hour high: 437.58, 24 hour vwap: None
pete_dushenski: ^and liftoff
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: typical 'tree tweaks' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: megatonnes of crapolade in blox for week+ now
mircea_popescu: aha.
BingoBoingo: Apparently code 3 months, trigger at least 1 year+ from now, but negotiations apparently ongoing
mircea_popescu: they can "negotiate" until they fall over.
BingoBoingo: Still, theater
mircea_popescu: the unmitigated audacity of schmuckdom never fails to astound.
pete_dushenski: no wonder the roman republic distrusted actors
pete_dushenski: bbiab. farmer's market.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb
gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2890.15, vol: 55196.55160000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2890.15
BingoBoingo: !up micheieh
mircea_popescu: anyway, situation reminds me of the time some derpy vc schmucks flew over to asia to "save mtgox consensus".
mircea_popescu: i suppose the sort of vermin will die believing in their own relevancy.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Apparently reddit is racis
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60700 @ 0.00057184 = 34.7107 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.50000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match -
deedbot-: [Qntra] Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Rises Above 163 Billion -
punkman: alphago bet back to even odds eh
asciilifeform: need moar reddit coinz
BingoBoingo: This is bullish for alf wallet
punkman: any idea how many cpus/gpus alphago will use in the match?
asciilifeform: maxint
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 266483 @ 0.00057215 = 152.4682 BTC [+] {5}
punkman: has anyone done a computer-assisted human player go tournament?
asciilifeform: punkman: nope. isn't chess, computer doesn't help.
punkman: btw all I've read said no handicap
assbot: Logged on 27-01-2016 23:48:23; ascii_butugychag: << the sc4mz0rz neglect to mention that the wins were in handicap games
deedbot-: [Qntra] Tampa Police Refuse To Work Plus Sized Star's Event After Insult -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80477 @ 0.000573 = 46.1133 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 14675 @ 0.00023316 = 3.4216 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83700 @ 0.00057339 = 47.9927 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: << in other oldies.
assbot: Visual 6502 in JavaScript ... ( )
asciilifeform: << even better.
assbot: Visual 6502 in JavaScript ... ( )
BingoBoingo: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00023316 / 0.00023536 / 0.0002676 (16150 shares, 3.80 BTC), 7D: 0.00023316 / 0.00040735 / 0.00049913 (54640 shares, 22.26 BTC), 30D: 0.00023316 / 0.00040332 / 0.00049913 (197184 shares, 79.53 BTC)
asciilifeform: PHYSICAL simulation of the thing, based on photographed and ocr'd dies, with animation.
BingoBoingo: holy shit
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: neat
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: << your girls?
assbot: Letters from the stupid country on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: written in browsercrud even. imagine what could be done on an ~actual~ comp
ben_vulpes: simulate a whole computer, shock, awe
asciilifeform: was thinking re: how 'moore's law', even in its heyday, did not substantially affect the inflation-adjusted COST of having a chip baked
asciilifeform: because, at least partly, the latter represents 'capital allocation', or as mircea_popescu's article put it, 'a thing we can't all be doing'
asciilifeform: (the nre cost is what i'm speaking of)
ben_vulpes: masks and shots were never terribly affected by moore's law itself
asciilifeform: nor the meat labour
asciilifeform: and if anything, the relevant tooling operations are now ~rarer~, more involved, costlier, the qualified folks - fewer.
ben_vulpes: subject of meat labor, i was slamming the 27-year old baristas some staffer was browsing on tinder last night and someone made the hilarious comment that bunnies are just as hot-swappable as baristas
ben_vulpes: "what it takes 6 months to train a barista from nothing, and 6 months to make a useful process tech!"
asciilifeform: it takes ~16 yrs. to make a process tech.
asciilifeform: starting from zygote.
asciilifeform: if you think '6 mo' it is because someone did this work for you, for phree
ben_vulpes: i'm not even talking about the incubating
ben_vulpes: i'm talking about attention to detail, understanding wtf is happening, why the suit is a necessary thing, why the sticky pads at each door...
mod6: email got snarffed
ben_vulpes: but perhaps i only ever worked in environments of rarefied tech capabilities
ben_vulpes: we were making probes
ben_vulpes: and then there's the economic differences: barista can dream of what -- going on tour? owning their own coffee shop? writing a best selling memoir about...running a coffee shop and going on tour?
ben_vulpes: process tech at least can hold out hope they'll move into mgmt if they go to night school and get that b.s.
mod6: both emails snarffed.
mod6: jurov: do you see any issues on your side? my signed email verifies, etc, everything looks good from my side. ^
mod6: anyway, im gonna move on until I know more re: ^
jurov: yes it's likel, i updated glibc, then i said to myself might as well update whole system
jurov: will check
mod6: ALL: the website has been updated with the newest V [v99995]
mod6: TMSR TESTERS: I need 5 confirmations that you can build this:
assbot: ... ( )
jurov: O.o postfix/smtpd[8072]: fatal: no SASL authentication mechanisms... on it
mod6: Once we have confirmation, we can update the wiki -- this needs to happen TODAY.
mod6: gernika, shinohai, ben_vulpes, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, hanbot, et. al. ^
ben_vulpes: aha
ben_vulpes: mod6: i was actually looking for tha
ben_vulpes: man fuck weechat's half-assed implementation of emacs/readline input controls
ben_vulpes: oh thank god
ben_vulpes: it's the weekend
ben_vulpes: i can close xcode
phf: you know what has non hasl-assed implementation of emacs/readline input controls? erc :]
ben_vulpes: phf: no bullllyyyyyy
phf: b-a is ma safe space
ben_vulpes: phf: i actually don't want irc in emacs
mod6: thanks jurov
ben_vulpes: very distracting when it comes to getting work done.
ben_vulpes: smpt SASL << wut
phf: yeah, i agree actually
ben_vulpes: phf: i tried for a very long time with erc in a seperate emacs instance running on a server as a bouncer, and the *constant* muscle memory confusion over the subtle differences between emacs-in-terminal and emacs-with-gui drove me up a wall
phf: i was thinking of maybe disabling all chat notifications.. something i wanted to look into. i spend workweek twitch checking irc
jurov: mod6 looks like it's fixed, my test email went through.... check whether your email was queued
jurov: whether it needs to be resent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27250 @ 0.00057339 = 15.6249 BTC [+]
shinohai: <<< on it
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:00; mod6: TMSR TESTERS: I need 5 confirmations that you can build this:
mod6: thanks shinohai
mod6: jurov: ok thanks, i'll hvae to resend later.
jurov: about a monh ago one dude offered to do the web submission form... was not heard since :(
pete_dushenski: mod6: what are the differences between 99995 and 99996_2 ?
mod6: it's in the email that was snarffed.
mod6: but, instead, I'll just give you some links that outline the changes in the beta emails
pete_dushenski goes to blackhole in outer space where snarfs live to read
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92800 @ 0.00056927 = 52.8283 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta - Call For Testers! ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 2 - Call For Testers! ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 3 - Call For Testers! ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 4 - Call For Testers! ... ( )
mod6: pete_dushenski: if you want an actual vdiff of the changes, refer to BETA 4 email, the latest is contained.
pete_dushenski: aha. cheers!
mod6: actually.
mod6: 99996_2 is not a V release -- it is a 'build-bitcoind' script version.
mod6: and the difference between 99996_2 and 99995 build scripts is nothing more than updating the SHA512 for V-20160220.tar.gz and the name of the tarball.
mod6: but yah, anyway, the differences between V [v99996] and [v99995] are outlined in the above emails, and ya, the last one [beta 4] has a complete vdiff between the too.
mod6: s/too/two
asciilifeform: << wai wut where was this ??
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:15; jurov: O.o postfix/smtpd[8072]: fatal: no SASL authentication mechanisms... on it
jurov: on a mail server
pete_dushenski: mod6: cool :D
asciilifeform: << this builds ancient ver
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:00; mod6: TMSR TESTERS: I need 5 confirmations that you can build this:
asciilifeform: i mean wut, no malleus ?
asciilifeform: no verstring
asciilifeform: etc
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2016 23:22:01; mod6: oh, because the leaf ordering is different. if you want a press of "all" patches as they exist in the mirror, currently, you need to press up through asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch
asciilifeform: hm
asciilifeform: why ?
asciilifeform: imho the scripts such as this should make it ~clear what will be pressed~
asciilifeform: from reading with naked eye.
jurov: mod6: trying under gentoo, complains "/.wot directory does not exist."
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i agree. but user can 'read tin' on which there is a label, or just check 'patches' folder once built
asciilifeform: no good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54837 @ 0.00057339 = 31.443 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: for one thing, no label
pete_dushenski: on mailing list ? but ya, i'm stretching mod6's position, one i don't totally grok myself
asciilifeform: for other, we have a number of these sh floating around and this is maddening
asciilifeform: but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified.
asciilifeform: gotta nail down the workingset used.
asciilifeform: << this is urgently needed
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:39:11; jurov: about a monh ago one dude offered to do the web submission form... was not heard since :(
asciilifeform: i have maybe a dozen things i ought to sign
asciilifeform: but i simply cannot stomach turdatron any more.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: in my admittedly meagre understanding of v, the working set is determined by the .wot set, no ? and isn't this about ?
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2016 02:06:58; mircea_popescu: trust people, not code.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you still have to specify the patch set
asciilifeform: it has to come from somewhere.
asciilifeform: and right now the situation is ridiculous.
phf: i have an untested uploader, takes a vpatch and a seal, lets through only a valid vpatch/seal combination. i don't think this exhaustively covers what we need though, and is also written for cmucl/araneida which is not giving me best of reliability..
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: where do i put a patch so that everybody ~immediately~ sees it ?
phf: ^-
asciilifeform: that arm looks familiar...
phf: oh shit, scratch that, i just checked the code it's not actually saving it anywhere :)
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: ideally patch hopper oughta deedbot also.
asciilifeform: and work in channel.
phf: much wip
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00056711 = 34.6504 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ?
ben_vulpes: pressing to a head should simply recurse to the root of that head
ben_vulpes: i have always said this.
ben_vulpes: one thing and one thing only.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: breaks parallel leaves
asciilifeform: ergo useless.
jurov: asciilifeform: i know! but haven't i asked like thousand time what is deedbot going to do with attachments?
ben_vulpes: explain the use of parallel leaves?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: do you want the motherfuckng db lock fix omitted from your build?!
asciilifeform: think for a minute.
ben_vulpes: ah shit that has no descendents?
asciilifeform: while looking at the graph
asciilifeform: jurov: nfi
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ok ok
asciilifeform: but this must be made to work.
ben_vulpes: press an explicit set of leaves?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that would work
ben_vulpes: ugh mod6 does this thing actually kill my terminal session when it dies?
asciilifeform: i intended this originally
phf: have a list of patches that are to be pressed made manually?
phf ducks
asciilifeform: phf: you don't need vtron for this, go use bare hands
phf: therein lies the joke
BingoBoingo: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
asciilifeform: hey if you recall, this was actually goodenuff for me
asciilifeform: i wrote v because mircea_popescu and hanbot cried
ben_vulpes: mod6: didja run off?
asciilifeform: and threatened to take up cvs or whatnot savagery
ben_vulpes: savagery lol
ben_vulpes: french toast is what shall be delivered, bbl
ben_vulpes: mod6: script does not work for me, complains about mismatched hashes
ben_vulpes: also murdered my terminal session
phf: mod6: is there a genesis for your v vpatch chain?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70582 @ 0.00057339 = 40.471 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23585 @ 0.00057355 = 13.5272 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 441.0, vol: 10280.57093863 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 436.85, vol: 9604.34192 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 443.5, vol: 42088.37363383 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 440.0, vol: 3.10639532 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 449.785266, vol: 60682.98270000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 440.38, vol: 1025.55959755 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 440.855667, vol: 92.03321959 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 445.829871266
BingoBoingo: ^ Spread is suspicously tight. Where did the China premium go?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41100 @ 0.00057325 = 23.5606 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Qntra] Chainalysis Partners With Only Possible Customer -
ben_vulpes: mod6: i am *still* getting this with gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!
ben_vulpes: previous hash mismatches appear to be something wacky with this gentoo vm on my macbook
ben_vulpes throws up hands in disgust
ben_vulpes: going to have fun running that the fuck down.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54769 @ 0.00056887 = 31.1564 BTC [-]
phf: favorite gpgme error, "err-no-error"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: do you have buildroot dood's dsa sig in your gpg keyring ?
pete_dushenski: *dsa key
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:13:38; assbot: Logged on 02-01-2016 05:43:08; phf: gpg: key 59C36319: public key "Peter Korsgaard <>" imported
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i'd expect an entirely different error should that have been the case
ben_vulpes: and yes i have it in my keychain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19472 @ 0.00056897 = 11.079 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: that's right, that part of the build scripts runs with the user gpg keychain
ben_vulpes: STATE
ben_vulpes: AUGH
pete_dushenski: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.0005686 = 25.9282 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: << computer assisted dating, also.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 17:56:45; punkman: has anyone done a computer-assisted human player go tournament?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92700 @ 0.00056646 = 52.5108 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: << starbux barrista probably takes one week on on the workplace.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:04:49; ben_vulpes: "what it takes 6 months to train a barista from nothing, and 6 months to make a useful process tech!"
mircea_popescu: what "train"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: no i did not go into each idiocy in depth
mircea_popescu: << stop trying to resist the lure of the b-a commissariat!
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 19:22:54; phf: yeah, i agree actually
mod6: ok did a build on my gentoo with '' and looks fine: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4889056 Feb 20 21:24 bitcoind
mod6: ben_vulpes, shinohai, jurov
mod6: let's get some pastes and see what's goin on here.
ben_vulpes: just dumb shit mod6
mod6: <+phf> mod6: is there a genesis for your v vpatch chain? << not until i finally get this thing working.
mod6: ben_vulpes: are you saying that it doesn't work? or that it was just that you didn't have whatever rando guys' key in your keyring?
ben_vulpes: no, just that i keep seeing that error.
ben_vulpes: and that i suspect gpg means to convey that it is not actually checking the sig.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu:
assbot: ... ( )
jurov: mod6:
assbot: dpaste: 3W7EQM4: V99995 ... ( )
mod6: ben_vulpes: ok. lemme check on mine.
mod6: ugh. im so tired of this fucking shit.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes aha ?
ben_vulpes: mod6: i don't think the file hashing mismatch is worth digging into
ben_vulpes: i suspect it has to do with mounting a filesystem into a vm
mod6: mine doesn't do that at all.
ben_vulpes: blows up on the .gitignore which iirc is an empty file
mod6: i have not seen that in the MONTH of testing that i've been doing.
ben_vulpes: mod6: well you're not trying to mount a fs from a mac into a gentoo vm i don't think
mod6: shinohai: you saw something similar too right?
mircea_popescu: mod6 love computers yet ? :D
mod6: i hate computers. yes.
mod6: kill them all.
mircea_popescu: :)))
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99316 @ 0.00057126 = 56.7353 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] How to be a pimp – a simple yet understandable and still exhaustive guide, translated. -
mod6: these godddam fucking cocksuckers are going to give ole mod6 a heart attack.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell gabrielradio my turn on your turn is live. thanks for the assist :)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: let's come play eulora instead and watch few bitcents of stuff go *poof* !
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: trying under gentoo, complains "/.wot directory does not exist." << create your .wot in the same dir that you place the build script, create a log of your findings, and see what happens plz.
mircea_popescu: jurov noob just turned 1 adze + 30 threads into 40k.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified. << ok but how should this work
ben_vulpes: mod6: see the rest of the thread. provide an explicit list of leaves to press.
jurov: mod6 did "cp -rp ~/.wot ." , same result
mod6: i can't do this.
mircea_popescu: uh
mod6: this is too much work for one guy.
jurov: it insists on having .wot in /
mod6: we need someone to maintain a V that makes sense.
mircea_popescu: mod6 take it easy for a second, will you ? nopanic!
pete_dushenski: mod6: breathe !
mod6: jurov: the changes to V look for .wot and .seals in the pwd.
jurov: mircea_popescu: why are you telling me that?
mod6: is your pwd / ?
mircea_popescu: i thought maybe you wanted to know where your cents went!
jurov: mod6 see the paste - no it is not.
mod6 looks
mod6: why in the world do I work on shit for a month, post betas all the way, and then we hit these issues now?
pete_dushenski: mod6: fwiw i'm endlessly appreciative of the work you've done thus far. you make noobing trb possible :)
mod6: jurov:
mod6: ok, so first, get rid of this crud
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's seriously how it happens. same thing with eulora and everything else.
mod6: "LC_ALL=C LANG=C"
mod6: then place .wot in "/data/juro/btc/V99995"
mod6: if it is, then there might be some sort of issue. i'll have to dig in to that. can you try maybe just clearing everything and trying again?
shinohai: mod6 the .gitignore comes from not removing the old directory
mod6: what old dir?
mod6: please start clean on this.
jurov: mod6 i have somalian locales, but with or without them it's the same result
mod6: new build dir, the whole 9
jurov: cleaned up eveything, there is now only .wot and, same result
shinohai: if you have a rotor dir and try to run script it fails.
mod6: yup
mod6: ok clean.
mircea_popescu: << would we do me the favour and quote me when we agree with me like this as i have nfi what this is. also <<< what stupid shit is this! specify THE PATCH SET ? fu! you mean specify the wot and the genesis ?
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:03:57; asciilifeform: but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:07:06; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you still have to specify the patch set
ben_vulpes: mod6: testing cycle in #b-a is slow as sin
mircea_popescu: i ain't specifying no list of patches wtf.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes really ? i thought it was pretty fast for an actual test cycle ?
mod6: ben_vulpes: yah, and when you're testing in production, this can't be a thing.
mod6: this is the worst of all worlds.
mircea_popescu: << if you send them to me ima mail them o.O
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:06:20; asciilifeform: but i simply cannot stomach turdatron any more.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: only if "actual test cycles" only means "#b-a test cycles"
ben_vulpes: and yes, things are getting faster.
mircea_popescu: mod6 im telling you , dunno if you read that log or not : you need a separate testing genesis.
mod6: until we finally get a test branch and so on and so forth, this stuff has to be ~perfect~ or we've got zip
BingoBoingo: Oh, the urls that lead spam nowadays
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the pointer in that convo is currently at but do read the prev.
assbot: Logged on 17-02-2016 05:22:12; mircea_popescu: punkman well, let's see what the others say. i faintly dislike the idea on morale grounds, but it's not the end of the world
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: not a list of patches a list of *leaves*
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no fucking list of anything. genesis item and wot.
mircea_popescu: wtf!
ben_vulpes: "i want everything necessary for malleus and db locks"
mircea_popescu: i never said that.
ben_vulpes: did i say that you did?!
mircea_popescu: who are you quoting then ? or what is that ?
phf: asciilifeform said that
ben_vulpes: what one might say to a V implementation.
mircea_popescu: one who is broken in the head may say that.
mircea_popescu: the only sane thing to say to V is "i want the bitcoin as these gentlement think it is best "
ben_vulpes: then press to a release patch, fin.
ben_vulpes: what you and i need from V diverge.
mircea_popescu: does what i and you need from a hammer also diverge ?
ben_vulpes: unless you expect it to be only and ever a release tool and not a tool for people actually working on the thing to use in their workflow.
mircea_popescu: it seems somewhat improbable that you'll be using your penis for both making children and doing your plumbing.
ben_vulpes: you - want to sink nails. i want to pull them out occasionally.
mircea_popescu: but in this i may be wrong.
ben_vulpes: perhaps i am laboring under the misapprehension that v should be useful for something other than putting software on mircea_popescu's box
mircea_popescu: should bitcoin also be useful for something more other than ~dependably~ keeping track of moneyz ?
mircea_popescu: perhaps... to help african children ? or other groups dear to our hearts ?
ben_vulpes: *i* want to press specified patch sets without doing so by hand.
mircea_popescu: good! fine!
mircea_popescu: and you want emacs to i dunno what ! who's keepin ya!
ben_vulpes: you will get a release patch and you will press to it. there is your hammer.
ben_vulpes: there is the "bitcoin as these gentlemen"
mircea_popescu: i don't like you enough to prefer you over the exactly equivalent windows release process just because your name is ben vulpes not bill gates.
mircea_popescu: the idea is to have diverse coder process, and a lot of fuckign toi land trouble on tghe coders, for maximal output quality.\
mod6: jurov: this is what i'm seeing on my gentoo fwiw:
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the idea is exctly NOT to have coder comfort and sanity at the expense of "this is the user's script"
mod6: im not sure why yours is saying that.
jurov: mod6 `pwd` returns nothing on my machine /o\
mod6: then your machine is hosed.
mircea_popescu: jurov that's a new one ?!
ben_vulpes: how is this "user's script" not precisely the windows release?
mod6: ok, i haven't eaten in like nearly 2 days. so im gonn walk away and get a bite.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's what i said.
mircea_popescu realises that the enthusiastic approval was merely intellectual, and code monkey habits will die fucking hard in the best intended of people. o brother, what we have before us.
ben_vulpes: try like i'm five, the windows comparison is shorting me out
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i've been sitting here trying to get this in saner terms.
mircea_popescu: let's use this angle : do you understand what i mean in that ancient article about how coherence in the wot is the worst attack on the wot ?
mircea_popescu: which is why things such as "official best policy for X" never even got to the discussion phase, as i've always torpedoed it ?
ben_vulpes: from 'how the wot is attacked'?
mircea_popescu: yes.
ben_vulpes: so bear with me: how is 'v' not groupthink incarnate?
mircea_popescu: your v apparently is. hence my windoes comment.
mircea_popescu: but V itself is not, at all.
ben_vulpes is hit by a particularly unpleasant revelatory wave
mircea_popescu: hence it's not as much what we "want" from our tools per se. merely what we expect them to be
mircea_popescu: ie, it's easy to pick on alf about his enamourement with the mental-usg, mostly because he's so "naively" open and upfront about it.
mircea_popescu: but the insanity is found in all heads.
mircea_popescu: and subtle - which is to say just subtle enough to avoid detection by the head it sits in.
ben_vulpes: i should simply expect misery from you every time i bring up the topic of how a v might work then?
mircea_popescu: in any case - v, as any new coin, has to get diversely seeded so it may survive, which is the scary step before us right now.
mircea_popescu: mno, ideally we'll discuss this to the point we are happily getting it
mircea_popescu: but understand that in any perspective, there's something fundamentally broken with telling V "press me this list of nodes". conceivably it may be useful as a graph-debugging tool, but it is not a v-ism.
mircea_popescu: it is in fact the llvm-ing of the v.
ben_vulpes fully adrift now, without even a sun to tell east from west
mircea_popescu: ;/
ben_vulpes: the turning of a compiler which should simply ingest code and shit elfs into a developer-centric tool?
ben_vulpes: 'code monkey' excuse me
mircea_popescu: mno. the enveloping of a tool which by its functioning and nature guarantees a free world into a sufficient wall so as to be safely operated by the opposite.
mircea_popescu: i understand that the pressure to say "oh it's the weekend can turn xcode off" EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WEEK is well driven psychologically.
ben_vulpes: i am not well versed enough in the history of gcc and llvm to understand this.
mircea_popescu: do understand that it is simply not acceptable in new things.
BingoBoingo: More "history rhymes"
assbot: And as for actual WordPress pingbacks .... you should probably switch 'em off • The Register ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well i dunno how to better approach this. how about you construct syllogisms and we see where it takes us ?
mod6: alright gentlemen.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo note how they STILL WON'T FIX THE MOTHERFUCKING HOLE. instead, how about to destroy more of the interconnected nature of the web ? "automattic got usg's back - turn off other people and only talk to disqus!!1"
mircea_popescu: asswipes.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yup
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101610 @ 0.00056522 = 57.432 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: I'm gonna eat something, probably overly hangry here.
mircea_popescu: really mod6 no reason to get worked up.
mod6: if you encounter any issues, let's do what jurov did and dpaste 'em, we'll get through this one step at a time tonight.
mircea_popescu: you're doing very well in everyone's estimation, your deadline is self imposed, not the end of the world.
mod6: thanks mircea_popescu. I'm doing my best -- I need to get us in a non-disjointed situation, hence the self-imposed deadline here.
mircea_popescu: yeah but simmer down atlas. we want you to live longer than the road there.
mod6: Ok. Will do, Sir.
mod6: Thanks for everyone taking the time, I know it's not pain-free with some of this stuff yet.
mircea_popescu: << ridiculous is not a reason to go back to the fucking insane asylum!
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:07:44; asciilifeform: and right now the situation is ridiculous.
ben_vulpes: thanks mod6, no need to kill yourself driving at 90mph
mircea_popescu: actually ben_vulpes it occurs to me, maybe the following description of final state is helpful :
ben_vulpes: i'm still trying to cook up a syllogism over here
mircea_popescu: moe finds bitcoin in 2056, long after the republic prevailed, through his gf at the time. he steals her script, copies her .wot directory and now has a node!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68650 @ 0.00056839 = 39.02 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: he decides he wants to add three lines of code to bitcoin. what HE does, in republican world, is write those lines of code, sign them, add his own sig in the wot and voila.
mircea_popescu: the girl, upon visiting, notices this, likes the functionality, and either a) signs herself or b) imports his sig in her wot.
mircea_popescu: depends how good the fucking was. a) is more discrete.
mircea_popescu: people in the senate floor of the most serene republic notice the silly things the kids are doing in bed these days and lo! ben_vulpes signs it, which makes that snipped suddenly go into a bunch of servers.
mircea_popescu: or maybe phf rebases it into a change of his and signs that.
mircea_popescu: CONTRARY to this sane process, in the empire alt-universe, may it piss in its own eyes,
mircea_popescu: guy tries to find the "source of power" by doing inane wikipedia-level shit, then tries to make friends with the people and put his fucking code in, to FORCE it upon the fucking userbase.
mircea_popescu: now : list of nodes necessarily maintains some sort of portion of alt-universe.
mircea_popescu: and i really don't want any of it to survive.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00056839 = 8.9521 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the important parts here being that v does away with the concept of developer control over code ; and with the concept of code ownership ; and instead introduces the concept of signature-driven responsibility.
mircea_popescu: and you may NEVER say to any user "your program is not working correctly because you've not given tyhe developer enough control over it". this is anathema, and the source of the "llvm-ization" comment.
ben_vulpes: strictly a release tool for the free world, then.
ben_vulpes: old habits do die hard.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41850 @ 0.00057355 = 24.0031 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it hastabe. there's nothing wroing with you running anything you wish, to help in any manner you choose, and even distribute it on its own v line
mircea_popescu: but it can't be what it is today, "please update your autoupdater now!"
ben_vulpes: heh
ben_vulpes: i think that i understand the windows comment now
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mod6 works fine on something approaching a sane computer
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: mod6 i have rebuilt my perl, now it fails to verify against 59C36319
jurov: which is Peter Korsgaard uclibc pubkey
jurov: when i imported it into my gpg keyring and reran, it goes
ben_vulpes: jurov: yes, this script uses the user keyring
ben_vulpes: how this came to be i do not know
phf: "i, ordained computron mircea lifeform, in the year of our republic 1932, having devoted three months to the verification of checksums, with my heart pure and my press clean, sit down to transcribe vee patch ascii_limits_hack, signed by the illustrious asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes and all saints."
jurov: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: point taken, but it is unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: laugh if you will, laugh if you must, do what must be done and not an iota less.
mircea_popescu: the zombie world entirely exists out of that iota less.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117576 @ 0.00057027 = 67.0501 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus — Medium ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52222 @ 0.00056455 = 29.4819 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: alrighty then, for the n-th fucking time, this blabla.
mircea_popescu: Kevin Pan, Anatoly Legkodymov, Larry Salibra, Leonhard Weese, Cory Fields, Johnson Lau, Matt Corallo, Peter Todd, Kang Xie,
mircea_popescu: Phil Potter, Valery Vavilov, Alex Petrov, Jihan Wu, Micree Zhan, James Hilliard, Yoshi Goto, Alex Shultz, Bobby Lee, Samson Mow, Robin Yao, Obi Nwosu, Mark Lamb, Wang Chun, Marco Streng, Marco Krohn, Wu Gang, Adam Back, Jack Liao, Jack Liu and Guy Corem are to be negrated on sight.
mircea_popescu: nobody is to use AntPool, A-XBT, Bitfinex, BitFury, Bitmain, BIT-X Exchange, Blockcloud, BTCC, Coinfloor, F2Pool, HaoBTC, Ledger, LIGHTNINGASIC & BitExchange, OKCoin or Spondoolies-Tech for any purpose under any circumstances, or ever hire anyone who ever worked there.
mircea_popescu: and with that... see you on judgement day, derps.
mircea_popescu: buncha posturing fucktards.
BingoBoingo: EMBARGO! which spelled backwards is O GRAB ME
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: no idea who the fuck uses any of that crap anyway, but w/e.
mircea_popescu: i will get around to bricking antpool/f2pool out of business before i'm done with this life, though.
BingoBoingo can't wait for halving
mircea_popescu: are any of those schmucks in the wot even ?
mircea_popescu: << random example. not a single proper key in sight. fucktard.
assbot: Search results for 'back adam' ... ( )
BingoBoingo: I dunno.
BingoBoingo: Caught one
assbot: Rating Details for User 'BlueMatt' ... ( )
mircea_popescu: !rated bluematt
assbot: You rated user bluematt on 06-May-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: one of the very few dudes in -dev actually doing something useful..
mircea_popescu: !rate bluematt -1 historically respectable bitcoin tester, recently joined forces with known scammers a la Luke-Jr and assorted nobodies in a doomed if lulzy effort to break bitcoin.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.bluematt.-1:e5351e13fcfcf737a1944692afd5b18ff3da8f9f5ab758e6dc9ab246f4ecbbe1
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for bluematt from 1 to -1 with note: historically respectable bitcoin tester, recently joined forces with known scammers a la Luke-Jr and assorted nobodies in a doomed if lulzy effort to break bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: !rated petertodd
assbot: You rated user petertodd on 01-May-2013, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: the gift cert expert..
mircea_popescu: !rate petertodd -1 random schmuck with bizarre pretensions.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.petertodd.-1:6215861df810e25c971f9be4c49a19e89ca1076647faa992dc03014663b0e207
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for petertodd from 2 to -1 with note: random schmuck with bizarre pretensions.
mircea_popescu: !rated pgp
assbot: You have not rated pgp.
mircea_popescu: !rate pgp -1 random schmuck with bizarre pretensions.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.pgp.-1:03a52b052a85fd5c2db64a8c3c246194af63db19e1c77048045f7077602e6f15
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for pgp with note: random schmuck with bizarre pretensions.
BingoBoingo: !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.bluematt.-1:f55911525410a89ff1abb6645bfa7c0129b365c610a03b0f1df6b5f406605ce3
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for bluematt with note: joined coup attempt
BingoBoingo: !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.petertodd.-1:b32d91457d6e7248c0ec9c9637bc394334bf33bbcdd0db0c776e16937f70f509
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for petertodd with note: joined coup attempt
mircea_popescu: "Bobby Lee (n. San Diego, California, 17 de septiembre de 1972), es un actor y comediante estadounidense". mkay.
jurov: mod6 it did compiled!
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: "Because the cost of increasing the limit is lower than the benefits of peace/not constant fighting and showing that Bitcoin can in fact do a hardfork."
assbot: Final Version - Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus : Bitcoin ... ( )
mats: lol
mircea_popescu: obviously. what's bum with a reputation of bfl shilling/fraud got to lose ? costs 0 for him.
mircea_popescu: at least chinese twerps pay for a meal.
mircea_popescu: ~same as "what does it cost wesley snipes to advertise gasoline saving magnets. already convicted felon anyway."
mircea_popescu: the costs go to the idiots BUYING. it'd better not cost the "actor, cantante y comediante estadounidense" jack shit, that's the fucking point of advertising to consumers.
asciilifeform: << this is what i said all along
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:33:29; mircea_popescu: but it can't be what it is today, "please update your autoupdater now!"
mircea_popescu: ok!
asciilifeform: NO to ANY networking code in v!
mircea_popescu: as long as it works fine without, i see no problem with it being there, but either way.
mircea_popescu: eventually you'll have gossipd and will want gossipd-based networking
asciilifeform: and when i said 'patch set' it means that - like it or not - you gotta get them somewhere.
mircea_popescu: for now curl - after victory, gossipd!
asciilifeform: for now local disk
mircea_popescu: or that.
asciilifeform: the central repository thing is ultra-broken
ben_vulpes: ahaha phil went derp?
BingoBoingo: Who's phil?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i suppose he just ended up in the wrong "have a catered lunch on us" line.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's a point.
asciilifeform: to the point where i cannot even release a patch because wtf, against ~what~ do i patch
mircea_popescu: against what you have.
asciilifeform: did this, and mod6 had to redo it all
mircea_popescu: of course. this is intentional and by design.
asciilifeform: << this is dwim.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:26:08; mircea_popescu: and you may NEVER say to any user "your program is not working correctly because you've not given tyhe developer enough control over it". this is anathema, and the source of the "llvm-ization" comment.
asciilifeform: sorry.
mircea_popescu: huh ?
asciilifeform: we know that mircea_popescu likes beating, but you will not make a horse fly by extra-strong beating
mircea_popescu: be specific!
ben_vulpes: wow and world trade financial group is no longer even a thing
assbot: World Trade Financial Group | About Us ... ( )
asciilifeform: nothing is gained by rewriting same crud 1001 times.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ...
asciilifeform: and there is not nor cannot be a guarantee that you can go from names to build automagically
mircea_popescu: "nothing is gained by rewriting same crud 1001 times." relates to " this is dwim." how ? other than "this stuff bothers me immensely"
asciilifeform: the patch set must physically come from somewhere.
asciilifeform: say - where !
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wait, were you at c1 and i forget ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not specified where.
mircea_popescu: none of your business personally where either.
mircea_popescu: if i find it in a fucking bottle in the east river, my problem.
mircea_popescu: discussing code provenance is like discussing bitcoin taint.
mircea_popescu: is it signed or isn't it ?
asciilifeform: patches depend on previous patches.
mircea_popescu: only in some worlds.
phf: ben_vulpes: i went derp, or that's some other phil?
mircea_popescu: in other worlds - different bitcoin entirely runs, or same runs under different name or w/e.
mircea_popescu: phf no afaik that's the phil potter in question.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody stops mircea_popescu from living in a private universe.
mircea_popescu: all universes must be private in this sense.
phf: ah, word. the juxtaposition of ascii's comment about central repo..
asciilifeform: on the other hand, a bunch of folks here are trying to trb
mircea_popescu: the delusion of "shared" universe is quintessential to the problem of "poetteringization"
ben_vulpes: "Phil Potter \n Chief Strategy Officer \n Bitfinex"
asciilifeform: and can't entirely move to separate planets
ben_vulpes: dag
mircea_popescu: i dun get what you mean asciilifeform
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207300 @ 0.00057355 = 118.8969 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?
ben_vulpes: phf: no, pgp.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you recall the mjr guy or what's his name was here trying to mealy mouthedly take the temperature re bitfinex last time they did a scam cycle.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 23:33:14; asciilifeform: to the point where i cannot even release a patch because wtf, against ~what~ do i patch
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: lol no i do not
mircea_popescu: you don't "release" a patch.
mircea_popescu: fucking sign whatever you want to run, if people like it they'll run it and if not whatevs.
mircea_popescu: this whole "we are developers herp" thing is prb not trb.
ben_vulpes: but aha i do recall that mjr and pgp were in the same room a few times
mircea_popescu: and i would very much like it be the case that some folks here actually want to specifically trbn
mircea_popescu: rather than "let's try prb with better people, it'll work this time"
mircea_popescu: it didn't work for prb, it didn't work for anything, including scbl and xml/html.
asciilifeform: its a people difference though
asciilifeform: not machine
mircea_popescu: o brother.
mircea_popescu: good people in specific circumstances produce usg no matter what they individually may choose.
mircea_popescu: take them out of that swamp already.
asciilifeform: i see no evidence for this.
asciilifeform: their ~children~ usg, yes
mircea_popescu: sigh.
asciilifeform brb
deedbot-: [Qntra] Khmer Rouge Leader Pleas Social Justice In Court -
pete_dushenski immediately thought of only to realise that he was racialistically lumping all the s.e. asian 20th century massacres together
assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 01:24:01; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ever see film ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81400 @ 0.00057322 = 46.6601 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: for shame.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71550 @ 0.00056821 = 40.6554 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Gotta keep them straight. What if you must leave America's hat for the malarial side of the ocean?
pete_dushenski: america's hat's pretty enormous. there's always another corner of desolate tundra with satellite internet to set up camp in.
BingoBoingo: I guess you just have to stay one step ahead of the sandminers?
pete_dushenski: sandniggers too.
mod6 reads
mod6: <ben_vulpes> works fine on something approaching a sane computer << ok cool!
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 it did compiled! << wonderful!
ben_vulpes: that sweet song of "clean socks for you! clean shirts for you!"
mod6: nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00056275 = 29.1505 BTC [-] {3}
phf: asciilifeform: around?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: just in.
phf: i can't figure out which patches are actually shiva patches. there's "(EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva." and then sometime after there's "Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge."
phf: i take it the combination of the two is what one uses to press shiva?
asciilifeform: << this and this only.
assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( )
asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud.
asciilifeform: afaik we don't presently have a vtron that is capable of digesting everything incl. the old crud.
asciilifeform: the pedigree bridge isn't for pressing either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32841 @ 0.0005596 = 18.3778 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: it exists to ~demonstrate~ that shiva-tinyscheme was created from the tinyscheme-genesis
asciilifeform: you can in fact do this, by pressing the latter, and then the former
asciilifeform: but this is unfortunately not a vtronic operation, because we have idiot diff and not a turing-complete vtron.
phf: but none of these patches contain code that actually touches the bitcoin source
asciilifeform: only shiva-part-2
asciilifeform: which necessarily does
asciilifeform: the split was deliberate
phf: ooh, so shiva part 2 is the btc tree thing, where's the tinyscheme genesis is where you get the tinyscheme dependency?
asciilifeform: in same link.
asciilifeform: or rather, that link ~is~ tinyscheme-genesis
phf: right
asciilifeform: the bridge, if applied, will turn the tinyscheme into the contents of the shiva subdir in shiva-part-1
asciilifeform: (you will have to rename the dir manually, because DIFF IS RETARDED)
asciilifeform: and MUST DIE
asciilifeform: currenly shiva is ~~AND~~ .
assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] Shiva bug fix. ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^^ the only things you need to actually build it ^^
asciilifeform: << sooo we have the long-awaited miner usgization ?
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 23:02:29; mircea_popescu: nobody is to use AntPool, A-XBT, Bitfinex, BitFury, Bitmain, BIT-X Exchange, Blockcloud, BTCC, Coinfloor, F2Pool, HaoBTC, Ledger, LIGHTNINGASIC & BitExchange, OKCoin or Spondoolies-Tech for any purpose under any circumstances, or ever hire anyone who ever worked there.
mircea_popescu: whatever this is.
mircea_popescu: odds are it's like last time "they lied about me agreeing", etc.
mircea_popescu: but whatevs it may be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33883 @ 0.0005596 = 18.9609 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: so i reread the mega-thread,
asciilifeform: and tentatively conclude that mircea_popescu wants everybody to have own vtree
deedbot-: [Trilema] Valmont -
asciilifeform: and hand-backport whenever these are to converge.
asciilifeform: which is sorta like what we did before v.
asciilifeform: now, this makes life very easy for mircea_popescu, or so he thinks, because he can go 'i want a mod6 tree'
asciilifeform: except - 1) he still have to get the actual contents of that thing somewhere
asciilifeform: 2) what if he wants, e.g., a mod6+ben_vulpes tree.
asciilifeform: but i see what he wants in say.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:22:12; mircea_popescu: people in the senate floor of the most serene republic notice the silly things the kids are doing in bed these days and lo! ben_vulpes signs it, which makes that snipped suddenly go into a bunch of servers.
asciilifeform: for there to not be any such thing as could resemble an 'update throne'
asciilifeform: that a derp could one day sit down on.
asciilifeform: but i say that the proposed method of achieving this, is rather primitive and by no means reliable.
asciilifeform: it is quite the same as 'we will abolish indoor spaces! no palaces, so there can be no thrones'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100650 @ 0.0005663 = 56.9981 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: << does mircea_popescu fully understand that there is NO MACHINE MERGING in v ?
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 21:52:20; mircea_popescu: the idea is to have diverse coder process, and a lot of fuckign toi land trouble on tghe coders, for maximal output quality.\
asciilifeform: that is, if we end up in the position where every developer has own tree, and mircea_popescu is not content to go, e.g., 'gimme what mod6 has' - then ~mircea_popescu~ will have to 'toil and trouble' and hand-merge ?
asciilifeform: the machine - will not do it !
asciilifeform: and yes, this is mega-decentralized and entirely unlike what gavin does and etc. etc.
asciilifeform: why not we also hang upside-down while doing it.
asciilifeform: will be even more ungavin.
assbot: Valmont on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a defensible perspective but it leaves me wondering wtf you were doing when founded a trb foundation ! a throne omg!!1111111
BingoBoingo: so, Inversion tables join "edgerouter lite" on TMSR shopping list?
mircea_popescu: a throne what ?
asciilifeform: see thread
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ??
mircea_popescu: i am but i dun follow.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For hanging upside down
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a centralized thing! that an idiot one day could get to the wheel of !
mircea_popescu: the foundation ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: it's just a convenience. it's not a fucking usg tendril.
asciilifeform: vs every man with own manually-curated tree
asciilifeform: aha, convenience.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: but ~what~ does it make convenient ?
asciilifeform: as i understand, it is a thing that mircea_popescu considers sinful ?
asciilifeform: that is, folks agreeing to work on a same tree
mircea_popescu: principally atm, that mod6 is running like a mad dog trying to keep on top of everyone's patches.
mircea_popescu: i don't see folks agreeing to anything. i see mod6 putting in a lot of blood.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 462 @ 0.00254173 = 1.1743 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: this is as it should be, incidentally, tho the original design was for there to be 2 people who then add more.
asciilifeform: iirc he was mainly bleeding to get his vtron up to par ?
asciilifeform: (which is a mighty spiffy thing!)
mircea_popescu: well, without getting into the nitty details.
mircea_popescu: but the point remains : having a trb foundation on the solid foundation of a v environment IS a convenience.
mircea_popescu: having a centralising pos a la vessenes faux foundation on top of the broken process non-v, is a disaster.
mircea_popescu: a disaster ot which naggum's lifeless body doth attest.
asciilifeform: i don't see prb or the xml circus as 'good people, good intentions, bad tool'
mircea_popescu: bad ~environment~.
asciilifeform: i see it as imbeciles setting out to do evil things and succeeding.
mircea_popescu: this is your privilege, as a believer in animism.
asciilifeform: and the few intelligent, honest folk, along for the ride
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, reality contains no divine manifestation.
asciilifeform: because there was no other ride.
mircea_popescu: the fact remains that in all attempts of building things atop non-v environments (specifically : ) result in the same thing.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 22:25:16; mircea_popescu: the important parts here being that v does away with the concept of developer control over code ; and with the concept of code ownership ; and instead introduces the concept of signature-driven responsibility.
mircea_popescu: you choose to view this as a sign of the omnipotence of usg.
mircea_popescu: it is not, but merely the necessary result of trying to keep milk in reed baskets.
asciilifeform: actually it is the omnipotence of regression-to-the-mean
mircea_popescu: whatever you call the deity today.
asciilifeform: this one has demonstrable teeth.
asciilifeform: witness nick-2 vs peter-1
mircea_popescu: they all have demonstrable teeth.
asciilifeform: or the hapsburgs, etc.
asciilifeform: lulzy how this is the exact inverse of the lisp machine thread !
asciilifeform: holy shit.
mircea_popescu: :)
mircea_popescu: the face of alf when he becomes privy to the evil matroshka mp, whereby he only argues things one way for the ease of arguing other things later.
asciilifeform: quite.
asciilifeform: >>> << moar lulz
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> 2) what if he wants, e.g., a mod6+ben_vulpes tree. << in general it's to be expected you'd see a lot of replication of code.
mircea_popescu: much like dna works, actually.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu doesn't seem to give the least damn about sweat, so long as it is not off his own back. 'who cares how many zeks it takes to build belomor canal' ?
mircea_popescu: trust that it is the right approach.
asciilifeform: whereas he ought to understand that he is squandering a ~finite~ resource.
mircea_popescu: if you wish to care about sweat you'll end up with the maggots on the meat.
asciilifeform: we have ddt for this.
mircea_popescu: similarly moscow university teacher does not care about candle burn.
mircea_popescu: "who cares how many nights student has to stay up until x clicks in his head"
asciilifeform: this is different.
mircea_popescu: if it is you'll have to show it.
asciilifeform: this is making the student peel potatoes 18 hr. a day.
asciilifeform: the work that goes into 'regrinding' is idiot waste.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, what i expect in practice is - a lot of cross signing, of people who know each other ; and a ready spot for corporate investment. "make me a mod6+alf patch" is a job.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> the work that goes into 'regrinding' is idiot waste. << it is NOT waste. not anymore than the work that goes into brushing teeth is idiot waste.
mircea_popescu: "why should i talk to the woman ebfore fucking her!!11"
mircea_popescu: reading the fucking code is not time wasted, keeping you from time you could have "better" spend writing more code.
asciilifeform: one of these things is not like the other.
mircea_popescu: ACTUAL thousand eyes, mandated, by design.
BingoBoingo: Where the good lord split, not even Blockstream has internal consensus on HKGOXMTG
assbot: maaku7 comments on We have CONSENSUS! In April we get SW, 3 months later, core HF code ready ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: say we do things precisely as you described. and tomorrow i publish a patch. now everyone who wants to test it, cannot apply it at all unless he is willing to use my tree wholesale. instead he has to MANUALLY merge it in, line by line. and then i end up back-and-forth-ing over his typos for the next month, instead of doing ANYTHING else
mircea_popescu: READ IT
mircea_popescu: he has to READ IT
mircea_popescu: it is not YOUR fucking patch.
asciilifeform: and then write it.
mircea_popescu: the very concept of "my" patch has to go.
mircea_popescu: anf if "doing ANYTHING else" stands for "write more code", best outcome possible.
asciilifeform: i am reminded of the german fella who proclaimed 'the tank will be 200 tonnes and fuck you'
mircea_popescu: but the notion that code can be owned is so idiotic as not to be able to stand. it's fucking code!
asciilifeform: built 'maus', which not one bridge in europe could hold.
mircea_popescu: which was not terribly relevant : it could ford in places nobody knew there was a ford before.
asciilifeform: well sure. but did not get far.
mircea_popescu: mostly because russian mud.
asciilifeform: did it even make it that far east ?
mircea_popescu: iirc the soviets captured the prototype facility
mircea_popescu: iirc was also a locomotive type engine lol
asciilifeform: anyone recall 'landkreuzer' ?
asciilifeform: would have been, a what, 1500 tonne !
mircea_popescu: was thgat the tank-submarine ?
asciilifeform: the one with the naval cannon
mircea_popescu: the thing with emplaced coastal artillery battery ?
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: my point was that mircea_popescu is asking 'the tank must be 1,000 tonnes! because fuckyou' but from where comes the engine ?
asciilifeform: the fuel ?
mircea_popescu: are you proposing that "software must progress" ?
asciilifeform: not exactly
mircea_popescu: but ?
asciilifeform: well, take, for instance, 'shiva'
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu want it to be finished, and replace the idiot rpc ?
asciilifeform: or waste of time ?
mircea_popescu: i see no problem with SOME software must progress. it does not follow that all must, or all should. bitcoin provably shouldn't.
mircea_popescu: i do want it to be finished.
asciilifeform: in bitcoin 'progress' just means something very different.
mircea_popescu: if it's finished before i die or after, i don't care. so long as it's finished right
mircea_popescu: and ONLY then.
asciilifeform: it means to cut out the scar tissue and replace with prosthesis.
mircea_popescu: i do not want it finished otherwise, at all.
asciilifeform: i don't see the manual monk-copying as being automagically a thing of correctness-making.
mircea_popescu: and in other interludes,
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't, do you ?
asciilifeform: (or, conversely, its absence, a ticket to prb damnation)
mircea_popescu: how do you suppose webstack became a thing ?
mircea_popescu: if not "relief from the antiquated chains of monk copying"
asciilifeform: from inferior people.
BingoBoingo: ;;google object 279
gribble: Object 279 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Object 279 - YouTube: <>; Object 279 Soviet Havy Tank [HD]-2014 - YouTube: <>
asciilifeform: who, yes, had an easier time getting and staying in.
mircea_popescu: your trust in people is misplaced.
mircea_popescu: look no further than yourself : are you a bad person for living in dc ?
asciilifeform: machine is not a pill against retardation.
asciilifeform: and yes, i am.
mircea_popescu: people will do what they see around them.
mircea_popescu: i don't actually believe so.
asciilifeform: i burn in this hell because too weak to escape it, and ergo it is the correct place.
asciilifeform: it is made up of all such who are.
asciilifeform: and nobody else.
mircea_popescu: machine is not a pill against retardation. nevertheless, system is a method for limiting expression of retardation.
mircea_popescu: which is why the same proteins make dog and dog vomit.
asciilifeform: overall i agree with this, and personally i have introduced many tortures, as the folks reading have felt on own skins.
mircea_popescu: there isn't "better" carbon to make man or beast.
asciilifeform: but machine can also be fooled, in the long run, by 'exam takers.'
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Done: f400ba5417274972a8a0da799d916983987156f949955d2bb9c6a4f146be2b31 bitcoind
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is why the v is so important. does away with any exam.
asciilifeform: the manual merging thing is quite exam.
mircea_popescu: do tell ?
asciilifeform: it is gruntwork and the ability to do it does not correlate with anything higher.
asciilifeform: peeling potatoes.
mircea_popescu: this is a fantasm. that you'd like it be true, i believe you. that it is, i do not believe you.
asciilifeform: likewise, it is very easy to 'cheat' by applying fuzzy-diff.
mircea_popescu: what you get when you take toil out of painting is warhol. he is not an artist
asciilifeform: and then recrunching the hashes.
mircea_popescu: he is an american.
mircea_popescu: what you get when you take toil out of psychologi is lacan. he is not a psychiatrist,
mircea_popescu: he is an american.
asciilifeform: no, it is what you get when you take out the talent, and leave ~only~ the toil.
mircea_popescu: plox - the world has had enough americans. forever.
asciilifeform: the talentless wretch who is very good at sweat, and paints, paints - this is warhol.
mircea_popescu: i dun think you're familiar with the fellow ?
asciilifeform: lightly familiar
mircea_popescu: quite opposite of historical item.
asciilifeform: to the extent my stomach permitted.
mircea_popescu: your stomach misled you, methinks.
asciilifeform: but perhaps i was thinking of pollack
mircea_popescu: a different fellow.
mircea_popescu: no, warhol is a talentless dali. just as lazy.
asciilifeform: ick
mircea_popescu: to this day the only way to become a carpenter is to carpent. the only way to become a whoremonger is to fuck.
mircea_popescu: you can't be a clinician without treating people, which yes, peeliong potatoes.
mircea_popescu: the deep secret here being that the potatoes are objectionable FOR BEING POTATOES, whereas their absence is objectionable universally.
mircea_popescu: or, as tlp very well put it, "
mircea_popescu: hmmm where's that article about boring family life, and hating the boring structure but nevertheless benefitting from it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's soliders painted quite a lot of grass fields green, and snowmen - white, didn't they.
asciilifeform: back in the day.
asciilifeform: *soldiers
asciilifeform: structure!1111
mircea_popescu: But why do we need "the balance?" What does it replace, what went missing? The very thing Holden Caufield hated: "phoniness", protocol and ritual for seemingly no purpose. Politeness is fine, but why do I have to make small talk? Why do I have to pretend to care about the weather? Why, after a decade of marriage, should dinner be a regular review of the somewhat boring goings-ons of "the day"? Because that formal
mircea_popescu: ity is freeing, it allows self-conscious physical bodies to get used to standing next to each other without having to be acting, this includes husbands and wives. When dinner is a controlled process with "manners" and expected topics of shared conversation and start and end times, as boring as it may get, it is boring, not you. Women are especially sensitive to this absence of convention, this is one reason for the p
mircea_popescu: opularity of Downton Abbey, not to mention alcohol and iphones at dinner. It is against this background of "phony" convention that teens can productively "rebel" and find their own individuality against a status quo; fighting against an emotionally illogical, arbitrary, unpredictable structure results in learning the opposite lesson, "whatever gets me through the day..." Without this structure to social activities, w
mircea_popescu: hen the "natural" conversation stops being interesting-- and it will, even if most of you weren't bad at it-- it would be a judgment about your relationship, about you. And you'll beg St. Jobs to blink a path to safety because otherwise you have to sit there with no existential support.
mircea_popescu: Texting and social media's slowness gives them their power for this purpose. You read a text, and it lingers, it keeps your attention because it's all there is; and then you respond with a piece of your real self, and wait for a response... what's happening is time travel-- while you are on pause, the rest of not-your life goes faster. It is far more efficient at killing time than a phone call.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so they did. and women beaten for cutting cabbage wrongly. and on it goes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0005686 = 3.4116 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the cabbage makes sense though !
asciilifeform: correctly cut cabbage is USEFUL
mircea_popescu: everything makes sense, my dear alf, as long as the cane doesn't cut into one's own buttocks.
asciilifeform: even then it makes sense.
asciilifeform: if the cane is because forgot to put the firing pin in the kalash on reassembly
mircea_popescu: well now that we understand the positions in theory, a negotiation for functional practice may begin.
asciilifeform: and not because missed a spot of green pain when painting motherfucking grass.
asciilifeform: *paint
asciilifeform ~knows~ that the pin does not normally come out! does not need correction on subj
asciilifeform: rhetorical example. imagine we were american grunts. their pin - comes out.
mircea_popescu: aha ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00056939 = 25.6795 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (and for the record i will point out that tlp is anglotard enough to miss most of the substance. there's perfecty good reason everyone painted the same god damned vase with two apples next to it, and this has little do to with "you're not boring son ok" and a lot of fucking things to do with ... damn, where's that thread about ther ancient battlefield ?
mircea_popescu: the one where new people see the same ravines and tend to build the same bridge long dead people saw and built ?
mircea_popescu: there's a depth acquired from "boring" narrowness of subject.
asciilifeform: i don't recall this
asciilifeform: (but would like to!)
asciilifeform: was it the intellectual-curiosity thread..?
mircea_popescu: yeah, you even commented on it at some point
asciilifeform: the one with the planar groups
mircea_popescu: damn we're not even a decade in can't find shit in the logs ;/
asciilifeform: l0lz
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in further "ceos agree to consensus" news,
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: interesting!
asciilifeform: only one looks visibly displeased
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42470 @ 0.0005686 = 24.1484 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: the one on the left hand side : 'snore, noose'
asciilifeform: the one on right hand: 'is this ALL THE NOOSE you could SPARE!?!!'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: and the one in the middle is all like "Shit, i really got the worst boobjob in the world"
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: well i can't fucking find it.
phf: went to have dinner, come back, mother of logs
jurov: the v theory is fine, but in practice i'm afrain it will drive everyone attempting it insane
jurov: like mod6
mircea_popescu: insanity would be an improvement for you people.
jurov: improvement toward what?
mircea_popescu: i rest my case.
asciilifeform: related >>
assbot: Logged on 07-11-2015 02:32:19; asciilifeform: << interesting sport - fake hanging
mod6: i don't think V is driving me insane. at least, I hope not. i think re-grinding is a pain, but i don't see a way around this.
mod6: shinohai: cool! thanks!
mircea_popescu: i will be off to do things with slutty girls now, bbl.
mod6: enjoy!
shinohai: >.>
danielpbarron: << me too. and i get a weird error when trying to get his key >>
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2016 20:41:35; ben_vulpes: mod6: i am *still* getting this with gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!
assbot: ... ( )
hanbot: mod6 ftr i'm not at all set up for proper testing atm, much as i wish i could offer something. will heads up when i'm able.
mod6: hanbot: no worries,. thanks!
phf: i split patches into patchsets, (and for historical) to minimize confusion. there's a little menu that lets you select
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( )
assbot: trb ... ( )
assbot: trb ... ( )
mod6: danielpbarron: did you put this key 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319 in your gpg keyring?
mod6: along with the other 3?
danielpbarron: when i try to get it, it gives the error linked above
asciilifeform: phf: why is shiva 'deprecated' ?
mod6: how are you trying to 'get it' ?
asciilifeform: oh nm
mod6: oh
mod6: didnt see the paste /me looks
asciilifeform: phf: very spiffy
danielpbarron: i get the same error when i do the same thing with the long key id you just showed
phf: asciilifeform: should be better called "disabled", but really makes no difference
phf: also release ought to be stable
danielpbarron: regardless, the script ended with a bitcoind in rotor/TEST2/bitcoin/src/
mod6: danielpbarron: try `gpg --recv-key0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319`
mod6: ok, well it should pull that key.
mod6: that command should ^^^
mod6: goddamn lag
danielpbarron: yeah same error
mod6: i dunno then.
phf: so without the two broken patches experimental almost presses cleanly. something wrong with polar's patches..
mod6: gab the key from the fhe keyserver andimport manually?
asciilifeform bbl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00056654 = 8.6397 BTC [-]
mod6: and ALL: do not run this script 2x, ever. if something goes wrong, just please, start again fresh dir blow everything away except your .wot dir & contents and script.
danielpbarron: well i got a bitcoind out of it, and when i run it against my already mostly complete .bitcoin directory i got black holed; trying again now with -connect=
phf: i'm going to try and keep main patches view the same as what mod6 is releasing
mod6: blackholed?
mod6: o.O
danielpbarron: can't get a new block, just bastards and transactions that appear to be invalid
danielpbarron: but that's not necessarily the fault of your thing; i had a power outage take this machine down without properly shutting down
mod6: ah. ok
mod6: well,let us know how it goes. thanks for building.
danielpbarron: gonna try a few more times to get it to continue building on the blocks i already had, and failing that I'll try it with an empty .bitcoin directory
mod6: alright, cool
danielpbarron: oh also, in getinfo I get this >> "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade."
mod6: o.O
mod6: something is wrong. i dont know what.
shinohai: seems to be running fine here
mod6: ok cool
BingoBoingo: Slowed Dissent
assbot: The Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus Proposal — Too Little, Too Late — Medium ... ( )
phf: ok so now works. takes seal and vpatch and saves it to uploads patchset uploads patchset inherits from experimental, which in turn inherits from stable. those who'd like to upload a patch are welcome to give it a try and let me know if it doesn't work.
assbot: ... ( )
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> oh also, in getinfo I get this >> "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade." << The hard shutdown may have left your blockchain copy corrupted at the end. Gotta get a UPS.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: This problem happened with quantrill this week. Was unresponsive so I ordered a reboot, after reboot... holy fucksticks the disappoint.
BingoBoingo: powercycling a bitcoin node is something of a gamble
BingoBoingo: I dunno what insanity possessed me to order that reboot, when the same problem is why I got batteries and UPSs for local machines
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60630 @ 0.00056719 = 34.3887 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00057275 = 6.0826 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: phf: btcbase keeps getting niftier
ben_vulpes: but when i click the dropdown some js takes over and doesn't let me select anything
ben_vulpes: oh interesting
ben_vulpes: does not work when tabbing to the dropdown and hitting the spacebar
phf: bah, that's what i get for sprinkling some jquery on that bitch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00056358 = 22.7686 BTC [-] {2}
phf: (i killed the js)
ben_vulpes: much better
ben_vulpes: can has submit onSelect ?
ben_vulpes: or would that be horrendously dumb
mod6: also, re: regrind, this is for sure: when doing this task, it forces you to read and understand the patch that needs regrinding. nothing wrong with this as far as I can tell.
phf: ben_vulpes: i'm not quite sure what to attach and where
phf: $('#patchset-select select').on('select', function() { alert('foo') }) doesn't do what i think it should
phf: oh, there's "change"
ben_vulpes: ah yeah change
ben_vulpes: ah jesus fuck javascript
phf: i already have jquery there because i wanted to add jumping from hunk to hunk on patch page by j/k
phf: (it works now by the way)
phf: err, both jumping from hunk to hunk and the on change
ben_vulpes: nifty phf
ben_vulpes: how are you shipping to this thing? hacking directly on the running lisp image?
phf: rsync/asdf/screen
phf: very boring :)
ben_vulpes: i appreciate boring
ben_vulpes: so does that mean no parenscript? :P
phf: alexandria cffi flexi-streams net-telent-date trivial-features usocket araneida cl-irc gpg-error rfc2388 trivial-gray-streams v babel defservice gpgme split-sequence uiop
ben_vulpes: just snarking phf
gernika: mod6 I'm stuck on the pgp issue ben_vulpes encountered.
assbot: dpaste: 2X6BDH8 ... ( )
phf: :)
gernika: I have manually imported that pubkey, to no avail.
ben_vulpes: gernika does your script go so far as to exit at that point?!
mod6: *sigh*
gernika: ben_vulpes: yes
ben_vulpes: mine sailed through merrily
ben_vulpes: "what verification error?!:
mod6: the thing that bothers me, is this: all that is different about the build script itself is the version of V.
phf: so i tried installing parenscript it pulls in all kinds of retarded. i don't even. anaphora, named-readtables.
mod6: so why didnt we have this trouble a few weeks ago?
ben_vulpes: mod6: are you even certain there was a 'we' running this a few weeks ago?
ben_vulpes: and not just a 'you' and a very sleep deprived and useless me?
mod6: ummm. yes?
mod6: we all went through this with V99996
mod6: back around the 28th.
mod6: gernika: do you have this fine somewhere in your build env? buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign ?
mod6: s/fine/file
gernika: mod6 I have that fine file in rotor :)
ben_vulpes: (girl hands me child, i place child on floor, "you know precisely what i do when you hand him to me, you could just save us the fifteen seconds and put him on the floor yourself")
mod6: gernika: what happens if you're in the rotor dir and you do `gpg --verify buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign` ?
gernika: mod6: the exact same message as in the dpaste.
gernika: ok interesting
mod6: what does this say `gpg --fingerprint 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319` ?
gernika: same for previous version of the file
ben_vulpes: mod6: << this has been a known issue since august 2015
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 02:24:26; danielpbarron: gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!
ben_vulpes: waitwait hang on
mod6: ben_vulpes: can you identify why this is an issue?
BingoBoingo: In other news Jeb quit.
mod6: gernika: <+mod6> what does this say `gpg --fingerprint 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319` ?
phf: i proposed a solution to that problem. have a set of gpg commands that work with .wot. so something like vgpg verify file, will 1) tmp=mktemp -d gpgxxxx 2) gpg --homedir $tmp --import wot/*.asc 3) gpg --homedir $tmp --verify 4) rm -rf $tmp, so that no foundation operations ever work with ~/.gnupg and always work with ~/.wot
ben_vulpes: mod6: because gpg says the signature isn't actually verified!
ben_vulpes: unless it's lying and it is verifying the signature anyways
mod6: it does for me
gernika: mod6:
assbot: dpaste: 3XAZ46P ... ( )
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24450 @ 0.0005633 = 13.7727 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: phf: you'll note that's more or less exactly what my v does
mod6: well, im fuckin stumped. this is crazy
BingoBoingo: Nevar forget
assbot: Sad Jeb Bush Is Just Sitting Up At Night, Waiting To Chat About Football With You ... ( )
phf: ben_vulpes: that's what all v's do, but we also have this auxiliary operations before the press that require calling gpg --verify
phf: *these
mod6: i disagree, totally, that V should contain any functionallity to validate anything outside of the V tree, contained in the patches dir.
ben_vulpes: yeah the v-wrapping build scripts don't isolate themselves from the user keyring.
ben_vulpes: mod6: nobody's saying that buildroot should be v-verified, but that not isolating buildscripts from the user gpg keyring is...not great.
mod6: ok perhaps
ben_vulpes: if asciilifeform hadn't already declared himself to not touch anything that brought anything down from the net he'd be complaining about all of the above as well
phf: mod6: that's not what i'm proposing
mod6: but this problem isn't realted to that.
ben_vulpes: sure, no.
mod6: for some reason, this guys friggin thing apparently wont verify, except for me. i seem to be the only one who has a gpg & his key that'll verify this damn thing
ben_vulpes: gernika: gpg version?
gernika: ben_vulpes: 1.4.19
ben_vulpes: mod6: mine *does* verify the signature, but not in the build-bitcoin-v999o*.sh context
ben_vulpes: v9999**
mod6: well fuck.
mod6: gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26 << both of my goddamn gentoo's have this installed.
ben_vulpes: oh yeah
mod6: what a goatfucking pile of shit
ben_vulpes: mod6: =app-crypt/gnupg-1.4.19
ben_vulpes: emerge --ask =app-crypt/gnupg-1.4.19
gernika: mod6 - seems the script exits for me when attempting to download boost:
assbot: dpaste: 3GCPPX2 ... ( )
mod6: well, i dunno what to say i guess.
mod6: you don't have to build with the script, just pull all the pieces and build by hand then.
mod6: im off
ben_vulpes: go take a vacation dood
ben_vulpes: it's not like gavin's going to steal a march on you or anything
BingoBoingo: Actually it's hard to tell.
BingoBoingo: That's the problem with hamplanets of the sort Gavin is growing into. It is impossible to predict the things they will steal.
ben_vulpes waits for the punchline
BingoBoingo: What punchline, all truefax. If you leave a planet in a room with icing, cornchips, and cookies there is a fair probability the hamplanet will eat the veggie burgers first out of curiosity.
ben_vulpes: heh
ben_vulpes: "so you leave a hamplanet in a room with frosting, cornchips, guacamole, and cookies. which do they eat first?"
BingoBoingo: the eggrolls
BingoBoingo: Even if you didn't know they were there.
ben_vulpes: "trick question: first they magic veggieburgers into existence to pretend like they ate something wholesome before desert."
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> go take a vacation dood << this is not a solution.
gernika: Some local color, since I'm voiced: I attended a bitcoin meetup in Oakland and encountered a team of "researchers" from Georgia Tech exploring using bitcoin to help the unbanked in Ethiopia. I asked, and no, none of them had been there.
BingoBoingo: lol
mod6: what i need, is help. every day. until this is resolved.
ben_vulpes: gernika: megalol
mod6: if someone knows what the problem is here, please submit. if testing is need, lets do it. all those things. telling me to take a break, or calm down, or take a vacation is not a solution.
ben_vulpes: i thought the vacation was already scheduled, hence the manic deadline pressure
mod6: brah.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.0005704 = 12.4918 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: ...
ben_vulpes: yes?
phf: mod6: that signature is busted, just vidy output of curl -s
assbot: ... ( )
mod6: vidy?
phf: see
phf: well, not busted, but not actually a signature for the tar.gz file
mod6: ok
assbot: ... ( )
phf: mod6: ~look~ at the inside of the signature
asciilifeform: << thats what package mask is for!!
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:15:54; mod6: gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26 << both of my goddamn gentoo's have this installed.
phf: it's not a detached signature. it's a standalone signed message that makes claims about shasums
mod6: dare i even ask what a package mask is?
mod6: phf: yeah, i see that, ok must be fixed
asciilifeform: basic gentooism, it's a list of nevers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 8513 @ 0.00023316 = 1.9849 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: things that won't be pulled in no matter what.
asciilifeform: re: thread: ftr i still use my original rotor builder.
asciilifeform: and intend to continue.
asciilifeform: it - works...
asciilifeform: << i won't use thing that insists n downloads. and i ~definitely~ won't use a thing that wants to rebuild gcc or boost etc each time.
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:11:48; ben_vulpes: if asciilifeform hadn't already declared himself to not touch anything that brought anything down from the net he'd be complaining about all of the above as well
asciilifeform: my build script is two dozen lines, and bugless.
asciilifeform: i have nfi why it needed 'progress'...
asciilifeform: << l0l!
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 04:22:56; gernika: Some local color, since I'm voiced: I attended a bitcoin meetup in Oakland and encountered a team of "researchers" from Georgia Tech exploring using bitcoin to help the unbanked in Ethiopia. I asked, and no, none of them had been there.
asciilifeform never has, and never will, go near anything 'bitcoin-themed' meatspace in heathendom.
gernika: asciilifeform: you might be interested to know that the scheme involved some sort of Coke Machine with a water filtration system.
BingoBoingo still remembers the one time he saw a person wearing a bitcoin t-shirt in a bar
asciilifeform: cough up keyz or die of thirst?
asciilifeform: worx
gernika: l0l the ethiopian coke machine
asciilifeform: also am i the only one to whom 'unbanked' evokes a way of connecting memory ?
asciilifeform: and little else
asciilifeform: (vs banked naturally)
BingoBoingo: lol

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