Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-03-18 | 2015-03-20 →
asciilifeform: decimation: depends what sort of hobbyist
asciilifeform: and to the extent it isn't a problem, it is solely because academia is mostly dead as a going concern
decimation: I'm personally pissed that the IEEE (I pay for membership) only gives me a tiny, tiny slice of their papers
asciilifeform: why still paying, again ?
decimation: I'm a member of the communications society - you have to pay more to get access to their journal
decimation: well, they have good group insurance rates
decimation: the other thing that annoys me is djb's complaint: < IEEE is more than happy to charge you for copyright-free papers
decimation: IEEE is also famous for 'fake conference' scams
BingoBoingo: This combination acedamiwank/chumpatron occupied too much of my time in Library school
decimation: BingoBoingo: the libraries are in on it insofar as they are a funnel of cash to the journal houses
BingoBoingo: decimation: It is more the University admins who budget for this hoping they might have someone on the faculty to wins their lottery ticket for them. It is essentially exactly a lottery mentality.
asciilifeform: quite a few 'civilians' don't believe me when i explain that the 'publishers' do not edit, or - in most cases - even typeset the submissions; and that not only do authors receive no royalties, but often -pay- page costs
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, for instance the IEEE demands you assign them copyright
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the term of art, iirc, is 'tournament market'
asciilifeform: !s tournament market
assbot: 8 results for 'tournament market' :
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2014 01:51:50; asciilifeform: 'One of various ways of organizing work that economists have identified, a tournament market "offers participants the chance of winning a big prize--an independent research career, tenure, a named chair, scientific renown, awards--through competition," writes Richard Freeman and co-authors. Tournament markets amplify "small differences in productivity into large differences in recognition and reward,"
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2014 01:51:51; asciilifeform: d co-authors continue. Academic science is only one such market; other familiar examples include rock music, professional sports, and national politics. '
decimation: BingoBoingo: yeah that makes sense, I always wonder why the administration seems 'friendly' to spending large piles of money on the publishing scamzors
asciilifeform: the textbook divisions of the same houses rape the undergrads, also to the enthusiastic applause of the faculty (who get kickbacks)
BingoBoingo: <decimation> BingoBoingo: yeah that makes sense, I always wonder why the administration seems 'friendly' to spending large piles of money on the publishing scamzors << As a class nearly all librarians dislike this because even when they publish anything is too niche to win. Spending on this stuff is also an extraordinary part of their budget.
asciilifeform: the basic 'zoological' observation here is that there is no such thing as a chumpatron of this size which stays 'single-layered' indefinitely. at a certain point, smaller fleas show up to go on the backs of the fleas, and so ad infinitum
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I've heard the latest scam for undergrads is to 'custom publish' a book for each class, which consists of portions of older texts with all of the sections and excercises renumbered
asciilifeform: decimation: in one form or another, this has been going on for at least two decades.
asciilifeform: decimation: the latest scam i personally know of is the 'www homework membership'
decimation: paid website for excercises?
asciilifeform: where a used copy of the book literally doesn't let you pass the class because its homework account code (yes) is already spent.
asciilifeform: this was, as i understand, a reaction to folks scanning bookz
asciilifeform: the parasite scum went, 'fine, we don't care if you want the dead tree to carry around or not, but you'll pay.'
decimation: 'homework account code'?
decimation: are the homeworks online?
decimation: or do they use robo-grading?
asciilifeform: chumper has to register with publisher to do the exercises, yes
asciilifeform: typically robo-graded
asciilifeform: hence incentive for the profs
decimation: I can't believe any moral person would sign up for this kind of thing
asciilifeform: the textbook racket is in some ways inevitable - the kids with access to $maxint in loans are walking bags of delicious meat from the standpoint of ten thousand kinds of flea
asciilifeform: and given as they are virtually never spending money which is -their own- in any palpable sense - they don't resist nearly as much as might be expected
asciilifeform: what's a $300 book compared to the $100k tuition.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the textbook racket is in some ways inevitable - the kids with access to $maxint in loans are walking bags of delicious meat from the standpoint of ten thousand kinds of flea << Not to mention many professors will accomodate students without $maxint doing otherwise.
decimation: asciilifeform: the $maxint bubble is growing even larger > > "The student loan debt burden rose 8 percent, to $1.16 trillion, last year. Most of that debt—65 percent—was owed by borrowers under 40 years old. "
assbot: Young Adults Are Losing All Hope of Buying a Starter Home - Bloomberg Business ... ( )
asciilifeform: the hidden text in this crap is 'let's print more hoap'
asciilifeform: and where do these cheap clowns get off calling debt peonage 'ownership' ?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah note that 8% annual rate is more than any reasonable fixed income investment
decimation: usg is all about illusioning every problem away
asciilifeform: '"chumpatron X debt continues to drag on the young generation, limiting their ability to be milked in chumpatron Y," the analysts said.'
asciilifeform: ^ phixed
assbot: Boston Nonprofit Wants to Put Grown-Ups in Dorms - Bloomberg Business ... ( )
asciilifeform did predict.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
decimation: sheparding conflicts between chumpatrons
asciilifeform: 'The authors of a new report from the Boston Foundation, a philanthropic organization that funds local nonprofits, prefer the phrase "millennial villages," dorm-like developments that maximize space by combining smaller living spaces with lots of common areas. Specifically, the report suggests building 10,000 units that make up for cramped living quarters by including shared lounges, health clubs, and shared areas for study, m
asciilifeform: usic practice, or launching a technology startup. For young tenants really interested in cutting costs, some could be built with shared kitchens.'
asciilifeform: '... In that light, building smaller units for cash-strapped millennials who need to live in a tight housing market sounds like a sensible solution—helping young people find more affordable housing and preserving larger units for the families that need them. Still, as the single-family starter home becomes less viable, do initiatives like this doom millennials to spending their twenties living in dorms?'
decimation: " families that need them."
BingoBoingo: !up adam_obrien
decimation: asciilifeform: perhaps the dorms can be designed like a soviet apartment block
asciilifeform: but with less space yet.
asciilifeform: how they will be designed - is no mystery, there were already built here where i live
asciilifeform: just not pitched to 'adults' quite yet.
asciilifeform: less space because the inhabitants are not expected to reproduce
decimation: < related "For the first time in New York City, a multi-unit building will (legally) consist entirely of what the city has dubbed "micro units," which are apartments of between 250 and 370 square feet."
assbot: Bloomberg unveils those tiny, tiny Manhattan apartments | Capital New York ... ( )
BingoBoingo: dubbed "micro units," which are apartments of between 250 and 370 square feet." << Generous bastards
decimation: asciilifeform: the inhabitants are expected to spend 100% of their income in 'consumption'
asciilifeform: 370 is not a 'coffin hotel' by any measure
asciilifeform: that's my old flat minus a room.
asciilifeform: also ancient newspiece, presumably that anthill is already packed to bursting point
asciilifeform: 'Here's why millennial villages might be a good idea. Boston doesn't have enough small apartments to satisfy demand from young adults and their boomer-parents. Millennials in particular have responded to the small-unit shortage by doubling and tripling up in housing originally built for middle-income families. That trend has helped drive up the average sales price of a single unit in one of Boston's distinctive triple-decker h
asciilifeform: ouses by 85 percent since 2009, the report found.'
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 04:14:00; asciilifeform: it was a mindfuck. went to see this one place, it had... 8 bois/gurlz
mircea_popescu: check it out, mod6 is getting an oscar.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: but even if it were true - still a joke. picture, full year's embargo. << i actually don't see much of a problem with this. most "science" is worthless anyway, i currently don't read it if it's less than a coupla decades old on general principle. a year's embargo wouldn't do anything.
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
asciilifeform: see rest of thread
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42350 @ 0.00029114 = 12.3298 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: strange that anyone would even for a single second propose the usg even exists as a going concern,
mircea_popescu: when confronted with stuff such as, you know "quite a few 'civilians' don't believe me when i explain that the 'publishers' do not edit, or - in most cases - even typeset the submissions; and that not only do authors receive no royalties, but often -pay- page costs"
mircea_popescu: seems a very accentuated case of memory hole effect.
asciilifeform: both are 'going concerns' in the sense that they keep a great many folks out of the organ market
mircea_popescu: in this sense, so is my unicorn princess.
asciilifeform: and have enough 'immune system' remaining to avoid digestion by 'isis', pirates, or #b-a thus far
decimation: meanwhile farther up the line, the bond & stock & currency markets wobbled wildly on news that the fed might this time really seriously stop printing money
mircea_popescu: or maybe they have the immunity of no substance.
mircea_popescu: how does air manage to avoid being digested by mammals ? well...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 401800 @ 0.00029852 = 119.9453 BTC [+] {5}
decimation: but because 'inflation measures' were off, not in june but maybe september, and this time for real
decimation: maybe, unless it isn't
mircea_popescu: it can't stop. this is a foregone conclusion, the us has no austerity way out
mircea_popescu: which is why, in typical usian fashion, they're claiming currently that "austerity is not a way out" in the general.
mircea_popescu: the ridicule of this after their "austerity as only way out" consensus in the 90s is completely lost, also in typical usian fashion.
decimation: 'because reasons'
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 04:18:01; decimation: I can't believe any moral person would sign up for this kind of thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usa has no 'austerity way' but does have the inevitable убеднение (orlov tried to introduce the term to engl., but it has no good ready translation)
asciilifeform: the 'adult dorms' are one form
mircea_popescu: you can't have moral persons that have delegated their authority. everyone in the us agrees that they're obeying laws because they're laws, not because they're right. consequently, american citizens can not be moral agents.
asciilifeform: убеднение != impoverishment
mircea_popescu: how about "holod" ?
asciilifeform: more like 'poorification'
nubbins`: cheapening
asciilifeform: neh, not quite cheapening
asciilifeform: implication is, sorta, turning down the poverty thermostat on somebody
mircea_popescu: убеднение = downotching
mircea_popescu: as opposed to downshifting.
mircea_popescu: one's voluntary.
asciilifeform: aha mircea_popescu grasps the subtlety here
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo btw is qntra making a "first static bitcoin" post ?
nubbins`: oh right i was gonna fiddle with that
asciilifeform: speaking of that article, notice that even stratfor is still a going concern
asciilifeform: in the usg sense
mircea_popescu: assbot: Young Adults Are Losing All Hope of Buying a Starter Home - check it out, being a twentysomething usian kid is a worse fate than being a 20something chinese kid.
asciilifeform: in that a stable of parasites is still drawing fat salaries there, as if nothing whatsoever had happened
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 04:23:25; asciilifeform: '"chumpatron X debt continues to drag on the young generation, limiting their ability to be milked in chumpatron Y," the analysts said.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for all i care people are still paying to visit graceland.
asciilifeform: yeah but in this case it is as if the occupant had been mummified and nothing detectably changed in the behaviour of the visitors pre- and post-mortem
mircea_popescu: 'The authors of a new report from the Boston Foundation, a philanthropic organization that funds local nonprofits, prefer the phrase "millennial villages," dorm-like developments that maximize space by combining smaller living spaces with lots of common areas.
mircea_popescu: what was the fucking soviet term for this,
mircea_popescu: where they put all the peasants that went to town to work
mircea_popescu: incidentally : shared kitchens are absolutely the ONLY way to go high density. gotta let the women become friendly so the tribal structure re-emerges. once they're breastfeeding each other's babies you can start over with the moses desertwalk.
mircea_popescu: five-six thousand years later you'll be launching the titanic!
mircea_popescu: but god did romanians hate this stuff after the war.
mircea_popescu: not that it was avoidable, but it did make for enduring hatred for both communism and russians.
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
asciilifeform: worked in ru too
asciilifeform: to give'em enduring hatred for selves
mircea_popescu: im sure.
gabriel_laddel: <mircea_popescu> what was the fucking soviet term for this, << kommunalki?
mircea_popescu: ironically, neither group (ru, ro) selfhated pre the experience.
mircea_popescu: but the us has been hating itself, quite loudly at that, for decades now.
mircea_popescu: curious what comes out of this creuzet.
gabriel_laddel: since the beginning, that's the whole of puritanism, no?
gabriel_laddel: "don't have fun"
decimation: also note that most of these millenials were raised in relative prosperity in the rich 'burbs of the 80's
decimation: they aren't peasants who only roll shit uphill
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between "laughing is evil" (as aptly depicted by eco) and "we are wrong"
gabriel_laddel: ^ what happens in the USA
mircea_popescu: i'm curious if it's going to yield some sort of ragnarok-like "the world is doomed" (seems to jive with the "austerity won't work for us so it doesn't work period" self-seeking ignorance) or some sort of ultraviolent civil war of six sides, like in japan
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88100 @ 0.0003031 = 26.7031 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "construction zones that only constructed themselves" fuck, that's SO DAMNED SOVIET!
asciilifeform: we have these here in abundance
mircea_popescu: dude, shakespeare had only part of it. not only is the world a stage, but the same old play is going on endlessly.
asciilifeform: state law (in more than a few states) is that, as al schwartz writes here, fines double (or in 'school zone', quadruple, etc)
asciilifeform: hence eternal 'constructions'
asciilifeform: where nothing ever seems to get constructed
gabriel_laddel: <asciilifeform> we have these here in abundance << I saw one outside the Palo Alto four seasons just the other day... 20 guys just standing around more or less.
asciilifeform: phun phact (also noted by al) - fella who holds the 'stop' sign all day makes 2x what a typical postdoc makes.
mircea_popescu: well he is actually doing something.
asciilifeform: plus benefits, pensions, etc.
decimation: asciilifeform: garbage man too, especially in maryland
decimation bids good evening
gabriel_laddel: I always wonder about the people who see this sort of thing everyday but never connect the dots, how do they internally deal with actual reality? I once flipped through the book Dangerous Thoughts by Yuri Orlov. He claimed that in the soviet collapse people would have multiple "selves". When they would break the law that would be their "off work" I, vs. the at work I who would report such a transgression to the poli
mircea_popescu: "For the first time in New York City, a multi-unit building will (legally) consist entirely of what the city has dubbed "micro units," which are apartments of between 250 and 370 square feet." << this is almost exactly it!
mircea_popescu: ;;google garsoniera confort III
gribble: Garsoniera Confort II - YouTube: <>; Garsoniera confort 1 sporit - zona Trafic Greu ( Mall Libery Center ...: <>; Sector 4 - Garsoniera confort 1 - YouTube: <>
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: top euro quality, fit for any artist to starve in
BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Working on a piece
asciilifeform: and woah, washing machine !?
asciilifeform: unspeakable luxury
TheNewDeal: Starving artists, the most popular homo sapien once the food supply runs shy
mircea_popescu: ;;google 250 feet to sqm
gribble: Square meters - Square feet units conversion: <>; Convert square meter to square foot - area converter: <>; Convert 250 square meters to square feet - <>
asciilifeform did not have 'own' washamat until the current ~2kBez bldg.
asciilifeform: in flats they are unheard of.
asciilifeform: strictly communal coin-operated things.
mircea_popescu: it came with my $7k a year two level + garden house in ro.
asciilifeform: (that are b0rked half the time)
asciilifeform: 7k/y buys... a parking space. here
asciilifeform: for compact car.
asciilifeform: on 7th floor of public garage.
mircea_popescu: i raised my own artichokes!
asciilifeform exaggerates but only slightly
mircea_popescu: the girlies that lived alone in town generally got 500 sqm apts running 300ish a month.
TheNewDeal: Small town or large city?
asciilifeform: 500 m^2 is ~6 times the space where i live now.
mircea_popescu: timisoara. it thinks itself a major romanian town, but it's more like... well... portland, basically.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh, extra zero. 50.
asciilifeform: aha lol
mircea_popescu: my apologies for any popped eyes in the audience.
asciilifeform stuffs eye back in
mircea_popescu: nah, house was 250+200.
mod6: thanks BingoBoingo! although, it'd probably be better to link "first release" to this email:
asciilifeform still salivates after the 'vibe' of timis.
mircea_popescu: too close to lebanon tho.
mircea_popescu: besides, something tells me you'll salivate after the vibe of any place that's not washington fucking dc.
BingoBoingo: mod6: revised
mod6: tyvm :]
BingoBoingo thinks asciilifeform would salivate over north stl
asciilifeform: thing is, the 'numeric wank' is just that. more interesting is what chunk of their meager daily coin the folks in each town get fleeced for by the land rackets
asciilifeform: because the 500 (or 50) is cheaper still in the congo than in ro
brendafdez: what would be the point of 500swm all to yourself?
asciilifeform: brendafdez: machines
BingoBoingo: mod6: Check, not you exact suggested revision
BingoBoingo: <brendafdez> what would be the point of 500swm all to yourself? << Vax powered steam table
mircea_popescu: brendafdez depends on what lifestyle. place to throw a party. place to store a lot of books. place to practice some indoor hobby - from kendo to rockstaring.
asciilifeform: brendafdez: i have entire things that i cannot do, for instance, because, while can afford the equipment - cannot, the space.
asciilifeform: and just about everyone i know has some version of this
asciilifeform: you will run into folks, for instance, who will whisper to you that they would have pistol range in their house if they could (a mighty fine idea, if you take care to separate the air flow)
asciilifeform: but picture what it would cost
mircea_popescu: basement isalso good for all the chained bitchez.
asciilifeform: for 1,001 things.
mircea_popescu: or if too old to get it up anymore, prized wine collection.
mircea_popescu: i had a friend with a cask of port.
asciilifeform: amontillado!
mircea_popescu: haha not quite. but the thing did say 1893
asciilifeform: fortheloveofgodmontrezor! (tm)
mod6: BingoBoingo: ah, I see. looks good.
brendafdez: yes, I bet when you have something you end up finding some use for it. My previous apartment had a trunk room, I used it to keep a lot of shit...
asciilifeform: i, for instance, tried to find a thing with a basement, here. but this was just beyond reach. instead i have a shipping-container-shaped 'garden shed'
mircea_popescu: you can't have a basement in the swamp. or good cheese, for that matter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh no, plenty of properties with basements (not all flat elevation here). just $$$$
mircea_popescu: brendafdez how about something simple like, bar and dancing pole ? that's 100sqm right there.
BingoBoingo doesn't get "port" wine
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do you get mead ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure. As in delivery and understanding the principle. Just don't understand the idea of Port.
mircea_popescu: well, it's a historical accident. on one hand, "this wine is pretty good, could we add shit to it ? maybe make it thicker ?"
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, england had jamaica, only thing it was good for was sugar.
asciilifeform: brendafdez: what is a trunk room ?
mircea_popescu: add one and one. it's how they ended up drinking tea.
brendafdez: spare place to store shit
mircea_popescu: very supportive home market. "oh, our empire building boys abroad found blue rocks ? FINE! we will make hats with them! they're very valuable now!"
BingoBoingo: I'm not a big fan of ticker booze. Higher Etoh content is great. Just thicker devolves into schnapps.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aka punishment room. small room no windows where bad girls go to meditate.
brendafdez: asciilifeform not sure if that's the proper word
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: schnapps << i once suggested a drink, 'the kapo' - one part schnapps to one part 'manischewitz'
BingoBoingo: If working the liver, why also push the pancreas closer to diabeetus.
asciilifeform: if you get ^ this, you are qualified for the time machine excursion.
asciilifeform: Leichenträger Zur Wache!
BingoBoingo: Etoh has blessed me with plenty of forward moving "time machine" jumps. Never given me the backwards jump to 2003 I'd make so much out of.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84900 @ 0.00030324 = 25.7451 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: re: square metrage: on a number of occasions i spoke with tourists and visitors of various kinds from 'orc' lands. who marvelled at hearing of 'american salary' etc. i patiently explained that it's rather like a shabbier version of where they came from with a zero or two welded on to both sides of the household balance sheet. like zimbabwe 'dollar'. normally folks grasp it and face lights up.
mircea_popescu: !up nanashi_
mircea_popescu: the us is principally annoying because of the challenge finding edibles is.
asciilifeform: ^ this is solvable, albeit at astonishing cost
mircea_popescu: any physical location takes well over 100 man-hours of research before it can be livable.
asciilifeform: the folks born and raised on 'eat recycled phood, it's good for the environment And ok for you!' typically don't bother.
asciilifeform: with any of that.
mircea_popescu: they're also dumb.
assbot: Doctor Grumpy in the House: Neurologists telling neurology jokes ... ( )
asciilifeform: they're also dumb << that's the interesting part, plenty of folks walking around who are not dumb in the usual sense - but grew up in this bizarre underground ww3 vault where of course the fucking sky is made of cement, what else could it be made of, and why do you use that weirdo archaic word 'sky' anyway, it's 'ceiling'
mircea_popescu: The first time I taught undergraduates I was surprised to learn that most of the students had no ability to judge if their answers seemed plausible. [...] You could ask a question about a guy throwing a football, and answers would range from 1 meter/second all the way to 5000 meters/second. You could ask a question about how far someone can hit a baseball and answers would similarly range from a few meters to a few k
mircea_popescu: ilometers. No one would notice when answers were wildly wrong. [...] Since I began working in the business world I’ve noticed that most people never develop that skill. Stick a number in a sentence and people just mentally run right over it, you might as well have inserted some klingon phrases. Some of the better actuaries do have some nice numerical intuition, but a surprising number don’t. They can calculate,
mircea_popescu: but they don’t understand what the calculations are really telling them, like Searle’s chinese room but with numbers.
mircea_popescu: oh god this is so very true.
mircea_popescu: it's a) exactly my experience and b) the fundamental reason the cattle is despised, actually.
mircea_popescu: it bothers most thinking people, on a very fundamental and not necessarily conscious level, to interact with anyone exhibiting this particular idiocy.
mircea_popescu: people not washing is easier to tolerate. much easier.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo, the " and why do you use that weirdo archaic word 'sky' anyway, it's 'ceiling'" is exactly definitorily dumb.
mircea_popescu: how do you define "dumb" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when they fail to grasp 'sky' once taken to the surface ?
mircea_popescu: that could well be just a defense mechanism.
asciilifeform: and were was the numbers thing from ?
assbot: Wading In — Chapter 48 - Utilitarianism ... ( )
mircea_popescu: dumb in my head is the situation of one who takes his circumstance, whatever it may be, as the complete story.
mircea_popescu: which is why things like "x animal sought to find its home" makes the animal seem smart, or w/e the opposite of dumb is.
mircea_popescu: it's also the deep reason women have been throughout human society and the centuries been regarded as intellectually inferior : it just so happens that for very good biological reasson they're primed to accept new circumstances.
mircea_popescu: this is related to primate mating.
mircea_popescu: but to the innocent eye, they just look beastly.
asciilifeform: 'Much could be said about this affliction of the mind that causes people to assume that what they do not understand does not matter, that they have reached such a level of omniscience that they no longer need to observe and listen and learn. Having learned enough, some people evidently stop learning altogether. What they learned first is the standard for everything that comes later. That the probably only _truly_ random ele
asciilifeform: ment in anyone's life is the order in which they experience things, seems not even to be underststandable -- they somehow believe that the order they run into them is universalizable and important, that first impressions really tell you everything you need to know about something. I have seen people who have the mental capacity only for the transition from "have not experienced" to "have experienced", and who are unable to ma
asciilifeform: ke a distinction between their observations and their conclusions, such that they are unable to change their conclusions about what they observed. They walk around like they had CD-Rs for brains.'
assbot: Re: two questions about strings - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
mircea_popescu: something like that.
mircea_popescu: so in this perspective, not knowing what the sky is makes one ignorant, not dumb.
mircea_popescu: but correcting my usage of sky makes them dumb, and their ignorance is no excuse.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> assbot: Young Adults Are Losing All Hope of Buying a Starter Home - check it out, being a twentysomething usian kid is a worse fate than being a 20something chinese kid. << tell me about
ben_vulpes: about it*
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> five-six thousand years later you'll be launching the titanic! << this is precisely what the "domes in the outback" routine is all about
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> where nothing ever seems to get constructed << oh give over, it's benign retardation
ben_vulpes: build roads out of shit with high thermal expansion coefficients in washington dc, shit's going to crack before your eyes.
assbot: Census Data Project Power-Chair Riders Will Outnumber Pedestrians by 2040 | GomerBlog ... ( )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> timisoara. it thinks itself a major romanian town, but it's more like... well... portland, basically. << dude the capital of the occupied coastal territories is remarkable only for being isolated from the retardation of both california and seattle
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> besides, something tells me you'll salivate after the vibe of any place that's not washington fucking dc. << no but you see "muh jaeorb"
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> and just about everyone i know has some version of this << my parabolic testing facility, f'r instance.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ^ this is solvable, albeit at astonishing cost << near you maybe. not out here in the sticks.
ben_vulpes: the good veggies, provided you step outside of the corporate-blessed brand sanctuary and actually go to a "farmers market" or the "first permanent tent structure within city limits" are -- surprise -- cheaper than the lettuces shipped up from cali.
ben_vulpes: which given their water problems should surprise precisely nobody.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes but you have to send someone to hunt these down and use them.
ben_vulpes: << might be worth calling out why a static build is noteworthy
assbot: Bitcoin Foundation Reaches Release | ... ( )
ben_vulpes: also probably i have to write an opinion piece as to what the fuck a reference implementation is for
mircea_popescu: ^ do that.
mircea_popescu: nice editorial entry from bitcoin foundation chair.
ben_vulpes: i knew when my pinky was stretching for enter that something was wrong
ben_vulpes: sure boss you got it
ben_vulpes: two weeks
mircea_popescu: writing's important yo.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> but they don’t understand what the calculations are really telling them, like Searle’s chinese room but with numbers. << i tried to have a conversation about amazon's quadcopter delivery system, using an ergodic analysis
ben_vulpes: counterparty fell back to "but don't you see the value in being the company that builds out quadcopters that can actually fly shit places?"
ben_vulpes: sideways jetpack problem
ben_vulpes: with batteries
ben_vulpes: i...apparently cannot argue this one effectively.
mircea_popescu: im missing some stuff here. wut ?
ben_vulpes: amazon, u savvy?
ben_vulpes: up there with aapl in drop shipping.
mircea_popescu: i know there exists a us corp by that name. it originalyl did books, then junk, now hosting.
ben_vulpes: so they've been banging on in public about delivery of small packages by quadrotor.
ben_vulpes: quadrotor, u savvy?
mircea_popescu: yep, ex rf toy, meanwhile useful.
ben_vulpes: oh oh
mircea_popescu: rf toys yeah.
ben_vulpes: anyways. point i'm trying to make is that the fuel cost for putting boxes in trucks and moving them around is vastly lower than fuel costs for putting boxes on quadrotors and derping them around town.
ben_vulpes: quadrotor not even having a glide rate so to speak, and suffering from the jetpack problem.
ben_vulpes: (only efficient use of a jetpack is to go up as high as possible and then glide sidways as far as possible.)
mircea_popescu: well, are you accounting for costs correctly ?
ben_vulpes: probably not, so let's model it.
mircea_popescu: ie, do you count what it costs to run the trucks starting with what it costs to build the roads they run on ?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> << might be worth calling out why a static build is noteworthy << Vessenes foundation seemed to have been doing static builds for the binaries they distribute... Needs more informed finger too elaboarate why this is different...
assbot: Bitcoin Foundation Reaches Release | ... ( )
ben_vulpes: no but that's not actually a cost to aws business either in the glorious communist states where more dollars are simply printed to maintain infrastrucutre.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: a distributed binary is not the same a binary cooked up on ones own box.
ben_vulpes: who knows what strange is in the former.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Sure
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: the (national) gas tax hasn't even been bumped to account for inflation since...93?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let me put it this way : trucks are an excellent midrange solution. if the distance they travel is neither too long nor too shoirt, they do fine
mircea_popescu: (length in this impoverished model means nothing other the inverse of density : the longer the distance the lower the density)
ben_vulpes: density of package delivery targets?
mircea_popescu: on very short distances they suffer from high density problems (ie, if we live three blocks from each other in manhattan anything';s better than trying to ship you stuff)
nubbins`: seems like drones are more a replacement for bike couriers than trucks
mircea_popescu: on very long distances they suffer from low desnity problem (ie, if you want this sent 5000 miles away, odds are there's not a road leading to your destination)
ben_vulpes: right.
mircea_popescu: both classes of problems are being controlled atm with artificial restraints, but technology esentially means arbitrage between actual and artificial restraints.
mircea_popescu: and mind that "more dollars are printed" does not in fact work to maintain infrastructure.
mircea_popescu: it only seems to.
ben_vulpes: lol the biker is aware of this.
mircea_popescu: which is why one's own two legs are such valuable infrastructure, moreso than any car.
mircea_popescu: they will get you ~anywhere~
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, it obviates aws/fedex/ups' obligation to invest in the road.
mircea_popescu: so will this flying toy.
ben_vulpes: i'm kind of horrified at the notion that aws will outlive the usg.
mircea_popescu: definitely will.
mircea_popescu: not sure if amazon aws per se, but yes.
ben_vulpes: well aws -> amazon
mircea_popescu: you know what i mean.
ben_vulpes: and you i i think
ben_vulpes: the dropshipper.
ben_vulpes: not the shared hosting company.
mircea_popescu: even so. look at it this way : zimmerman died, his pgp still in use.
mircea_popescu: satoshi idem, his bitcoin etc.
ben_vulpes: yeah but bezos?
ben_vulpes: amazon baffles me.
ben_vulpes: they make no money.
mircea_popescu: they make corpses.
ben_vulpes: require vast orchestration overhead to survive. not like pgp and bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: making corpses is a surer way to power than making money.
mircea_popescu: so, after what happened to b&n...
ben_vulpes: better be long amazon than basically anyone else in the atoms biz in the us.
ben_vulpes: not so much long amazon as short everyone else.
mircea_popescu: exactly :)
mircea_popescu: you now understand finance!
mircea_popescu: you don't buy X because it's good, you buy it because it'll outlive everyone else, shitty as it is.
ben_vulpes: lol let's not get ahead of ourselves now
mircea_popescu: hence the importance of making corpses.
ben_vulpes: right.
mircea_popescu: the more companies you kill, the more you're it.
ben_vulpes: well this has been enlightening
ben_vulpes: i'm going to focus on murder and mayhem for my shartup business plan
ben_vulpes: and in the meantime, i'm going long this girl.
ben_vulpes: nite!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61759 @ 0.00029317 = 18.1059 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00029069 = 1.4098 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00029317 = 4.5735 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133312 @ 0.0002906 = 38.7405 BTC [-] {3}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 84.21557126 BTC. Current weight: 89,057.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87400 @ 0.00029388 = 25.6851 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00029903 = 16.0878 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85000 @ 0.00030324 = 25.7754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92450 @ 0.00030115 = 27.8413 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8337 @ 0.00029845 = 2.4882 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00029018 = 4.875 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42800 @ 0.0002916 = 12.4805 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu deposit pls. and no dividends yet?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: oh and btw
jurov: ;later tell mircea_popescu the fees for new mpex accounts go to publicly known addy? if it's secret, why?
jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu the fees for new mpex accounts go to publicly known addy? if it's secret, why?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61057 @ 0.00028971 = 17.6888 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62003 @ 0.00028962 = 17.9573 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.0002916 = 7.2608 BTC [+]
assbot: Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 ... ( )
danielpbarron: (3) A disclosure requirement in respect of any protected information is necessary on grounds falling within this subsection if it is necessary--
danielpbarron: (c) in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom.
danielpbarron: re: private keys ^
assbot: Mozilla approves Nazi-themed, anti-feminism Firefox extension [Update] ... ( )
davout: jurov: by default they should come with the first deposit according to the FAQ, so to the deposit address
danielpbarron: "It's offensive. While feminism is a movement that aims to make the world a better place by promoting equality, nazism is a movement which is linked to one of the darkest periods in history" << lol "darkest periods"
davout: i recall it being mentioned that this was only the "default" deposit address, too lazy to !s it
danielpbarron: The Chrome counterpart "Turns SJW nonsense into pro-Nazi propaganda. Changes words such as 'Men' into 'Jews' to make any radical feminist post sound like something straight out of Hitler's mouth!", claims its developer in the description.
davout: lulzy
danielpbarron: !up danyalos_
danielpbarron: !up Asa9t1
danyalos_: danielpbarron thx for the up and for the tw follow. At first, I thought you were here in BA.
Asa9t1: hello sir
danielpbarron: lol nope
danielpbarron: hi Asa9t1, what brings you here?
Asa9t1: just checking out freenode again. i spent time here back in 11 & 12
Asa9t1: years
Asa9t1: 2011 2012
danielpbarron: wait was this channel a thing in 2011?
Asa9t1: id have to check my logs tbh
Asa9t1: I could be off
Asa9t1: but on diff system
danielpbarron: you're probably right, it's just pre- public logs
Asa9t1: i mostly idle
Asa9t1: im an expert lurker
Asa9t1: :D
Asa9t1: im shy
danielpbarron: you're doing a terrible job; I got you to talk immediately
Asa9t1: i was impressed i was voiced right away
Asa9t1: then i wondered if it was a bot who auto voiced
danielpbarron: do you GPG?
Asa9t1: oh shit Ive forgotten how to do it
Asa9t1: on on a diff system
assbot: Please To PGP (Guide for Linux, OS X, Windows) | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
Asa9t1: was hooked up to that bot who wot I hink
danielpbarron: gribble?
Asa9t1: that was the bot for bitcoin
Asa9t1: yes
danielpbarron: what username?
Asa9t1: asa1024
chetty: hola b-a
danielpbarron: !gettrust asa1024
assbot: asa1024 is not registered in WoT.
Asa9t1: i was hooked up to something
danielpbarron: ;;gettrust asa1024
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user asa1024: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Sun Sep 30 09:16:52 2012
danielpbarron: ah, you must have authenticated via bitcoin address
danielpbarron: assbot goes by GPG only
Asa9t1: i had to use the bitcoin program
danielpbarron: you would have been in there if you had a key registered
Asa9t1: but ive forgotten how to do it
Asa9t1: that system of mine is history for that
Asa9t1: i had a dedicated system for my wallet
Asa9t1: but I didn
danielpbarron: does that mean you have piles of bitcoin that you bought for nothing?
funkenstein_: Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 <-- translation please?
Asa9t1: but i didnt do anything major til last year
Asa9t1: not anymore
Asa9t1: :D
danielpbarron: funkenstein_, in the UK it's the law/becoming law that you can be compelled to give up your private key in the interest of "protecting the economy"
funkenstein_: so theft is legal then? cool
assbot: In boon for bitcoin, UK to regulate digital currency exchanges| Reuters ... ( )
funkenstein_: compelled, does that have a UK legal meaning?
danielpbarron: !s rogue state
assbot: 11 results for 'rogue state' :
funkenstein_: excellent. I hope Mr. UK does a good job of making sure there is one block every 10 minutes
danielpbarron: oh idk if they use that word, but it seems to mean that if they think you know the key and refuse to tell them, you are a criminal and can be arrested as such
danielpbarron: some guy got held up in Canadian customs recently, had to type in his laptops password so they could "look for kiddie porn"
assbot: I was detained by CBSA, required to give passwords for all my devices. They wanted to "inspect" devices in some closed room. [1/5]
funkenstein_: well at least these folks are clear that they are nazis, we have warning
funkenstein_: but they already convinced me of that with "papers please"
chetty: The Treasury further announced on Wednesday a new research initiative on digital currency technology, and said it would inject an additional 10 million pounds ($14.66 million) into the area. It will work with the British Standards Association to develop a set of standards that will protect consumers, it said.
danielpbarron: !up danyalos_
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26650 @ 0.0002916 = 7.7711 BTC [+]
jurov: << have you looked on the 1Fx addy? that would mean no new accounts since november
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:05:12; davout: jurov: by default they should come with the first deposit according to the FAQ, so to the deposit address
davout: jurov: i have not
kakobrekla: thats an interesting question.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74200 @ 0.00028962 = 21.4898 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: height=286885 vs height=212663
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105942 @ 0.00028948 = 30.6681 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74350 @ 0.00028835 = 21.4388 BTC [-] {3}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " Odds: 33(Y):67(N) by coin, 34(Y):66(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.75645355 BTC. Current weight: 93,873.
danielpbarron: today i learned that OpenBSD will boot into the installer if it finds the install CD in the drive while booting
chetty: <danielpbarron> today i learned that OpenBSD will boot into the installer if it finds the install CD in the drive while booting//was that on purpose or an oops?
danielpbarron: now that i think about it, it's a feature
danielpbarron: like a recovery method for when your system gets broken
danielpbarron: just seems counter intuitive seeing as how i'd normally have to specify the boot device before the kernel even loads
danielpbarron: also, the installed kernel can be used to install
danielpbarron: that makes sense actually; why wouldn't it
danielpbarron: oh i also learned that "ofwboot" has to go into an MSDOS partition at the beginning of the drive, and it has to be FAT32 (not FAT16)
danielpbarron: for some reason this particular machine had it as 16 -- easily fixed by running newfs_msdos over it
danielpbarron: i think this only applies if you're installing on a mac
danielpbarron: it's the mac equiv of grub or something
funkenstein_: is openbsd the only reason to have an optical drive?
danielpbarron: huh? no -- I usually install from USB
danielpbarron: i like having an offcial release cd for verifying downloads
funkenstein_: i had trouble with usb last i tried, i will try again
danielpbarron: and it's nice to have the cd for machines that can't boot usb for whatever reason
danielpbarron: i think it's as simple as using 'dd' to write cd56.iso to the stick
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.9996 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 87.31517126 BTC. Current weight: 88,773.
danielpbarron: OpenSSL 1.0.1 users should upgrade to 1.0.1k. <<
assbot: Logged on 10-01-2015 19:09:16; mircea_popescu: xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core << this, of coruse, was discussed for the past few days :)
assbot: [Bitcoin-development] OpenSSL 1.0.0p / 1.0.1k incompatible,causes blockchain rejection. ... ( )
mats: anyone have recommendations for USB drives with hw write switch?
asciilifeform: mats: USB drives with hw write switch << i do not know of any commercially-available items which fit this description (you will find switches on a few, but they are merely a 'polite request' to the host machine)
asciilifeform: mats: if you desperately need this, the popular hobbyist 'arm' dev board 'beaglebone' features a usb slave controller and comes with code example. wire up on the the gpio pins to a toggle switch and you have your drive.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" Odds: 15(Y):85(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 88.31517126 BTC. Current weight: 88,751.
mats: sigh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121150 @ 0.00028691 = 34.7591 BTC [-] {3}
danielpbarron: ok maybe i just messed something up, now this thing reboots into installer with no cd
danielpbarron: it booted correctly after i took cd out, now it reboots into installer
danielpbarron scratches head
lobbes: << So dumb. Yes, let's force the uninformed masses to contribute to the problem
assbot: Obama: Maybe it's time for mandatory voting - ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85682 @ 0.0002916 = 24.9849 BTC [+]
nubbins`: asciilifeform:ben_vulpes: where i went it was the 'credit-hour' <<< same, standard 3h/wk course was 3 credit hours
nubbins`: some labs were 2!
nubbins`: BingoBoingo:BitBet is the greatest provider of insurance BTC has ever seen <<< ah, maybe. there are others?
nubbins`: it certainly can provide interesting hedging opportunities
lobbes: Slowly, I'm starting to understand/absorb the reasoning in:
asciilifeform: Obama: Maybe it's time for mandatory voting << mega-soviet-lulz
nubbins`: asciilifeform:phun phact (also noted by al) - fella who holds the 'stop' sign all day makes 2x what a typical postdoc makes. <<< fella w/ the sign is also arguably providing more value for the $
nubbins`: that said, holding the stop sign all day is no fun. can't listen to headphones, gotta stand up!
nubbins`: "but it's 40C outside" "so?"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25703 @ 0.0002916 = 7.495 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46434 @ 0.0002941 = 13.6562 BTC [+] {3}
danielpbarron: << for anyone who wants a nice simple desktop environment on their OpenBSD machine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179600 @ 0.00028593 = 51.353 BTC [-] {3}
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before April" Odds: 7(Y):93(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 34.77616637 BTC. Current weight: 26,386.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: you compiled against libressl, right?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73900 @ 0.00028485 = 21.0504 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: GoDaddy accounts vulnerable to social engineering and Photoshop | CSO Online ... ( )
danielpbarron: While this conversation was taking place, Mr. Troia's daughter was making noise while playing. This background distraction created just the setting needed for Mr. Troia to push his social engineering scheme.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00028472 = 4.584 BTC [-]
assbot: Sure smart contracts may replace lawyers, but because they're 'smart' you can't break the law either, so you'll need fewer police.
nubbins`: what?
trinque: mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: I enjoyed reading last night's convo on amazon and what finance is.
trinque: my both immediate and long-term strategy has been to identify markets where the software has languished, and to raid the space with something built well
fluffypony: nubbins`: the smart contract must magically be able to solve self-disputes
fluffypony: it's smart, you know
nubbins`: "because they're smart you can't break the law"
nubbins`: i'm curious to know if this idiot had a broken example in mind, or if he just mashed words together
nubbins`: hoping it'd make sense
kakobrekla: shouldn't those be called more like 'computable contracts' or whatever
kakobrekla: cause you can still make em pretty dumb
nubbins`: no, they're smart because they prevent you from, say, stealing a bag of candy
nubbins`: or from walking away with everyone's btc
nubbins`: (somehow)
fluffypony: kakobrekla is right
fluffypony: I mean it's good in theory
fluffypony: like I buy a domain from you
fluffypony: and we use a smart contract
fluffypony: the fulfillment is easy
fluffypony: fulfilment
fluffypony: and it can observe the exchange and you get your money
danielpbarron: he's probably referring to some thing where both parties put up bitcoin collateral in an escrow controlled by "the block chain"
nubbins`: danielpbarron that's the sense i get.
nubbins`: like bitcoin itself somehow handles automatic disbursement of funds when arbitrary conditions are met
danielpbarron: if pushed he'd probably have to admit that there would be "trusted 3rd parties" who vote on whether the event happened or not
ben_vulpes: trinque: it was pretty illuminating to me as well
fluffypony: MasterNodes
danielpbarron: probably yet another thing better managed by bitbet
trinque: ben_vulpes: indeed, that making corpses bit, "ahhhhh, yes"
danielpbarron bets a small insurance amount on 'No' for "Amazon will deliver my book on time"
nubbins` creates a complicated bet designed to milk value out of his warrant
danielpbarron: actually that's a bad bet because how can i prove it? and that's why smart contracts are retarded
nubbins`: @eris_ltd So you're saying better locks & thick walls don't lower crime? If so, should we lock our doors at all? Smart contracts = locks.
nubbins`: lel.
nubbins`: what in the
nubbins`: So you're saying that ham sandwiches with lettuce aren't an integral part of smart contracts?
danielpbarron: i've see that guy before; he makes youtube videos for dumb people
danielpbarron: stuff that should be a blog post but instead he films it
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: do you have a blog?
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: re: youtube videos for dumb people << i've started thinking because Videos are much easier to consume than words, dumb people are more attracted to it cause they can "watch it" instead of "read it"
assbot: Bitcoin 101 - Intro to Paper Wallets & Cold Storage - Bitcoin Security & Fun with Sloppy Wallets - YouTube ... ( )
danielpbarron: first result on youtube for "paper wallet bitcoin"
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, nope
danielpbarron: i don't know what i would blog about
danielpbarron: i don't have many original ideas
ben_vulpes: your pogo saga's a good start
ben_vulpes: or would be
ben_vulpes: anyone know about issetugid on debian?
ben_vulpes: or lol *any* linux?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00028472 = 6.9756 BTC [-]
mod6: is anyone working on porting over the original submitted deeds to the new deedbot?
trinque: mod6: I've got 'em from punkman, have not had time to throw them in yet
trinque: I will try to block some time for deedbot hax this week
trinque: I have a list of feature requests on it too
mod6: ah, ok cool. :]
mod6: at least there are back-ups of the originals.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64411 @ 0.00028396 = 18.2901 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8189 @ 0.00028281 = 2.3159 BTC [-]
jurov: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00028281 / 0.00029355 / 0.00030324 (4406264 shares, 1,293.46 BTC), 7D: 0.00028281 / 0.00032012 / 0.00036181 (29116700 shares, 9,320.84 BTC), 30D: 0.00028281 / 0.00036658 / 0.00048515 (83965044 shares, 30,780.34 BTC)
jurov: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00021105 / 0.00021105 / 0.00021105 (9477 shares, 2.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00021105 / 0.00027001 / 0.000301 (59040 shares, 15.94 BTC)
jurov: !mpif
assbot: F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021375 B (Total: 467.44 B). Delta: 0.31 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
lobbes: asciilifeform: << thank you for this introduction on the writings of Naggum. Likewise, I feel it is my duty to spend the next decade learning Common Lisp
assbot: Loper OS » The Wisdom of Erik Naggum ... ( )
lobbes: I tell you, I've learned more in this channel in a year than I did my entire 4 years of college/university
lobbes: and I didn't have to pay $40k
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: lobbes: glad to hear you liked it.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: you compiled against libressl, right? << Yeah
BingoBoingo: <nubbins`> BingoBoingo:BitBet is the greatest provider of insurance BTC has ever seen <<< ah, maybe. there are others? << X.EUR (more limited scope) and Usagi (megalol)
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: what platform did you use? OpenBSD?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Yeah, and LibreSSL 2.0
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mike_c: well, there was also MPOE
mike_c: although it didn't have LEAPs
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00028499 = 16.6434 BTC [+]
jurov: !up Xuthus
mircea_popescu: jurov a ty
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: and Usagi (megalol) << "Usagi the insurer" along with "Kludge the banker" and others
mircea_popescu: jurov you know it only just confirmed a few hours ago!
jurov: i'm doing it preemptively
jurov: in the past i have waited for deposits to clear themselves, usually did not happen
jurov: and now looks like dividends have to be requested, too...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69850 @ 0.00028762 = 20.0903 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] [PAID] 146.76667746 BTC to 500`000`000 shares, 29 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: i've formed a psychological aversion to dividends because i keep fucking the sums up ;/
mircea_popescu: !up deedbot-
mircea_popescu: trinque : a) could deedbot be registered so it autovoices ; b) could the website be edited so as to be arranged as discussed ; c) could the syntax of this thing be fixed so i can actually use it!
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: danke. but rly, add-deed is spurious, it should just presume it if a naked url is presented. and i hate those :
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, told mod6 above I'm going to try to work on it this week
mircea_popescu: mostly because autofill adds a space then i have to delete it etc. serves no purpose either.
mircea_popescu: ah ok hadn't gone through logs yet.
trinque: the : might be deeper in the bot than the plugin code
mircea_popescu: just sed
mircea_popescu: just sed 's/://' over the codebase
mircea_popescu: what's the worst that can happen!
trinque: haha, surely that will work
trinque: but yeah, totally agree on the feedback so far, just balancing increased IRL load-average
mircea_popescu: what do you do irl anyway ?
trinque: make ordering app-things for restaurants
trinque: shartup
mircea_popescu: somehow something tells me this sucks.
mircea_popescu: !rated trinque
assbot: You rated user trinque on 17-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: <undata> look guys, I'm merely gay-for-trip-to-spacestation.
thestringpuller: oh yea enterprise retail managment
mircea_popescu: !rare trinque 2 Balancing increased IRL load-average!
thestringpuller: !rated mircea_popescu
assbot: You rated user mircea_popescu on 01-Mar-2013, with a rating of 4, and supplied these additional notes: upgraded to mah nigga.
mircea_popescu: !rate trinque 2 Balancing increased IRL load-average!
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
trinque: mircea_popescu: I am doing the work of about 5 regular code-monkeys
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.trinque.2:83bd96c94c9f5b079148413fb831bb5be8a9354344140ef0d01bf274b81c4eab
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for trinque from 1 to 2 with note: Balancing increased IRL load-average!
trinque: we're a 2 and a half person startup, finally gaining speed
trinque: and ty for the rate
thestringpuller: trinque: hire co-ops at half price :D
mircea_popescu: only took like a year o.O
mircea_popescu: dude srsly, we had that spacestation gayness convo A YEAR AGO ?
trinque: lol, apparently so
mircea_popescu: foundain of fucking youth : sit in b-a all day, everything will have happened coupla weeks ago.
trinque: despite load average I could not resist being even a meager part of this place.
assbot: Bitcoin Address 14zzR9FfAZFEUxPAGrFoDAQDhEeiEpYtG5 ... ( )
mod6: is that the funding addr for deedbot?
mircea_popescu: wassat ?
trinque: that's the spend for what'll be your bundle shortly
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: semi-automat
thestringpuller: there are two asciilifeform 's ?
mircea_popescu: oh and d) make a deed stating what deedbot does, who's maintaining it, what addy it takes for funding etc.
trinque: fo sho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55808 @ 0.00028885 = 16.1201 BTC [+]
trinque: lol @ the face of mischief
mircea_popescu: << yeah, they figure they can pass laws substantially going "if we need your money you must give it to us" and that'll do anything more than dissolve the uk as a legal entity.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:02:53; danielpbarron: (c) in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom.
ascii_field: what i don't get is why they even bother signaling intent to do this with 'laws'
mircea_popescu: << technically correct : a period they know least about would be dark.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:05:19; danielpbarron: "It's offensive. While feminism is a movement that aims to make the world a better place by promoting equality, nazism is a movement which is linked to one of the darkest periods in history" << lol "darkest periods"
mircea_popescu: ascii_field because they're not actually tyhinking
ascii_field: ah, britain, the home of the peine forte et dure - perfect for recalcitrant kulaks clinging to keys...
mircea_popescu: << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:05:45; davout: i recall it being mentioned that this was only the "default" deposit address, too lazy to !s it
mircea_popescu: ascii_field maybe i'm veering into insanity by now, but i tell you honestly, i wouldn't give it to them if the whole country fucking sunk for it.
mircea_popescu: finally a chance to exercise that fiat justitia, pereat mundi thing, and entirely within one's own hand. how to pass such a thing ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron anyway, nazism also aimed to make the wortld a better place. this is indisputable. and it also aimed to do this by empowering a subgroup at the expense of other subgroups, which it perceived , falsely, as oppressive. the identity between internet feminism and fascism is quite indisputable.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this is why i made the panel switches removable. easy installation of pull ring for zap toggle.
mircea_popescu: jews have all the money and power, men have all the money and power, jews have secret conspiracies to keep aryans down, men have secret conspiracies to keep womyn down, real aryans wouldn't fuck jews, real womyn wouldn't fuck men,
mircea_popescu: it's exactly the same thing, for a new, and "dark" generation.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field nah, i wouldn't destreoy it.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i would like the 'pulling the pin' concept to get some traction
mircea_popescu: it must stay there, forever, inaccessible. let em fucking twitch in agony.
ascii_field: and naturally you don't destroy -only- copy
mircea_popescu: well then what do you destroy ?
ascii_field: just the one you happen to have on person when besieged
mircea_popescu: i guess.
ascii_field: because enemy will assume it, regardless of whether the case or not
ascii_field: so may as well. you still need the cyanide
ascii_field not expert game-theorist, but this point seems pretty clear
mircea_popescu: since when is what X will asume our point of interest ?
mircea_popescu: well so if it's clear clarify it!
ascii_field: well, the torture chamber is a kind of game-theoretical playground
mircea_popescu: and i don't intend to give them THAT easy way out either. let em fucking work for their keep. what, keep me in prison for fifty years ? cool.
mircea_popescu: people usually have to pay for that sort of security.
ascii_field: i won't pontificate on whether the past century of usg work on tortures, dope, etc. came to anything, but this is more or less the kind of situation it was all ultimately waiting for, to try.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron : Sep 24 21:32:22 <asa1024>send them moar porn! that should keep them busy for awhile! ( 2012)
mircea_popescu: Sep 23 15:47:49 <JWU42>oh my << kakobrekla's friend too :D
ascii_field: quite possibly 'raytheon' or the like is even now marketing a fully-automatic ecdsa rectothermocryptoanalyzer.
ascii_field: comes with two ends: one goes in arse,
ascii_field: other is key for user.
ascii_field: well, 'patient'
ascii_field: no need to involve a professional
ascii_field: who can be bribed or bought
mircea_popescu: and this will work, because reality is fan fiction and any nonsense can happen.
ascii_field: who said it'll work
ascii_field: just that it'll be sold.
mircea_popescu: well its mere existence. so who made these ? robots ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123200 @ 0.00028511 = 35.1256 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: same folks who make the rest of the usg toybox
mircea_popescu: who ordered them made and what's his faith based on that he won't be the first they'll be tried on ?
ascii_field: phalaris's bull!
mircea_popescu: ie, the same usg that gets killed with the weapons it made and gave away.
ascii_field: anyway i bring it up because it seems almost certain to be tried. cryptoanalysis is the one kind of peine forte et dure where answer can be instantly verified by machine. so torment can be very efficient - for slow, 'humane' variant, just put it on the door lock
ascii_field: for quick - rectothermics. anything in between, also.
mircea_popescu: you misread the incentives tho.
mircea_popescu: your ideas work in this situation where the usg is "the universe" and the guy it torments just a guy.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40509 @ 0.00029648 = 12.0101 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: the situation is that some guys are trying to torment the universe. this is dysfunctional as a plan.
ascii_field: not everybody's zoya kosmodemyanskaya and dies silent partizan
mircea_popescu: but that was not this.
mircea_popescu: think for a second of the "antisocial struggle" example : every shot cop costs the state millions, and the shooter a bullet.
ascii_field: germany was also not 'the universe'
mircea_popescu: the situation isn't magically changed just because we're no longer shooting.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17877 @ 0.00029778 = 5.3234 BTC [+]
ascii_field: but this didn't save the girl
mircea_popescu: every anything you propose costs the usg way more than it costs you.
mircea_popescu: like, one year in prison ? costs you nothing, costs them 100k or w/e it is.
mircea_popescu: and it costs real actual value, not dollars.
mircea_popescu: by all means.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field what does it mean "to be saved" ?
ascii_field: see, the rectoanalyzer will not be used by conventional 'daylight' usg, no
mircea_popescu: i surmise you don't use it in the christian sense, but what do you mean by it ?
mircea_popescu: o, right. it will be used by soemthing that doesn't actually exist ?
ascii_field: it'll be used by folks with the access to the prisoner and some plausible cover
mircea_popescu: (by which i mean : has teh physical characteristics of inexistence)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and who will believe their cover ?
ascii_field: why so certain that this is an impossible or even unlikely scenario ?
mircea_popescu: people mostly don't believe the usg statements in the case of ulbricht. what when they're actually made up ?
mircea_popescu: because your description of this entity has more in common with that which doesn't exist than with that which does, and so parsimoniously it doesn't exist.
ascii_field: ulbricht, say, will be listed as 'dead of prison buggery hiv+' in his papers. but in actuality will sit down on this auto-electric-anthill at langley
mircea_popescu: anyway, back on the "salvation" angle : is the doctor who cures your cancer savbing you ? suppose you die coming out of the hospital run over by a bus. what salvation ?
ascii_field: or is mircea_popescu proposing that this is -EV for the folks involved
ascii_field: by 'save' meant the banal fact that to prisoner, his captors may as well be 'the universe'
mircea_popescu: i am saying two things. one is that your model of "folks involved" is actually inconsistent. the other is that for any consistent model, the -ev is so pronounced as to make any other alternative rationally preferable.
mircea_popescu: but this banal fact is not a fact.
ascii_field: it did not help warsaw rebellion that ru tanks were 2hrs away
mircea_popescu: there are no tanks here.
ascii_field: well, the doom of the jailers, whatever form it might take
mircea_popescu: you understand ? the ro revolution was not in the slightest hindered by the fact the ro army tanks were right there.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary.
mircea_popescu: assets are liabilities. that's what it is.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: slightly misunderstanding example. the ru tanks emboldened the rebels, hastening their deaths
mircea_popescu: arguably on both ends of that.
ascii_field: used here as illustration that the imminent demise of usg and the broader zombie civilization that created it, does not separate ulbricht's arse from anthill
ascii_field: rather, it brings it closer to.
mircea_popescu: but think for a moment through it. so, in a country where petreus can't have fun with an ugly stupiod old whore, there still exist these people who can do outrageous things.
mircea_popescu: clinton ejaculating on some fat broad is not outrageous, sparked an outrage.
mircea_popescu: but these folk somehow get away with it.
ascii_field: outrageous things such as lowering a general into pederasty, for example
mircea_popescu: he did that himself.
mircea_popescu: the bitinstant schmuck did it himself also.
mircea_popescu: they did it themselves, by doing what you propose is "unavoidable".
mircea_popescu: suppose petreus didn't go down for it, went on a snowden tour. what then ?
ascii_field sorta gets what mircea_popescu meant here
ascii_field: that'll be hilarious!
mircea_popescu: the dod accuses him so and so,. he's all over al jazeera explaining what a poopyhead obama is.
mircea_popescu: who wins the next election ? jeb bush ?
ascii_field: pulling a grigorenko
mircea_popescu: what's the cost to the elite ?
mircea_popescu: what, they disappear them ?
mircea_popescu: costs EVEN MOREW
ascii_field: like the other snowden
ascii_field: unless he hides in putin's house, he'll be disappeared for less than a whitehouse dinner costs
mircea_popescu: now, granted, a transhumanist in the audience aged about 11 and with an education consisting mostly of harry potter books may think himself so important that this is a bad deal.
mircea_popescu: i don't happen to share that view.
ascii_field: which is a bad deal, and for whom ?
ascii_field confused
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're miscalculating costs.
mircea_popescu: take an example further away, may help. so cristina ordered the death of a prosecutor that was going to put her in jail.
mircea_popescu: what was the cost of this ? there's three working on it now. so the cost was, superficially, problem x3.
ascii_field: and she is closer to the jail?
mircea_popescu: plus, everything else, starting with the press and ending with... who the fuck wants to talk to her now ? kim ?
ascii_field: or 3 pliant ones
mircea_popescu: i doubt anyone seriously believes she moves into anything but a jail cell once term ends.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, her negotiating basis changed, and so now the victory of the opposition is incontrovertible.
mircea_popescu: a year ago it was at best dubious.
mircea_popescu: costs, baby. nothing's more expensive than action, especially when you're in a swamp.
mircea_popescu: and all society's a swamp.
mircea_popescu: your model worked fine in a world of lumberjacks and church bell towers a day's walk away from each other.
mircea_popescu: that world doesn't exist, most soldiers die of ricochet.
ascii_field: they died of ricochet (well, shrapnel) in 1915
ascii_field: just as now
mircea_popescu: but not in 1600.
mircea_popescu: your model's anchored in an older time, a quieter time.
mircea_popescu: a simpler time.
ascii_field: my model is more of a hypothesis re: what tools usg will pick up when the usual ones (magick away the universe with idiot media tricks) begin to fail
mircea_popescu: take, for argument's sake, the guy in tienanmen. now, the cost of the tank running him over ? w/e, five cents in detergent and ten cents in gasoline.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the idea that as the skin fails away the body can move to a 2nd line of defense is ridiculous. people with burns over 80% of the surface don't survive on their own.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the only reason we know about him is the gigantic crew of usg photographers and a usg planetary mediachumatron ready to endlessly reprint the photo
mircea_popescu: it NEEDS it. once that fails, IT fails.
mircea_popescu: what, fetlife will order my content off my blog ? what's your scenario here ?
mircea_popescu: we will publish it a billion times.
mircea_popescu: this isn't a conflict that can be won. inasmuch as it's a conflict, it was already lost.
mircea_popescu: the only way out is submission, abject.
ascii_field: but meanwhile american north kr.
mircea_popescu: dubious.
ascii_field: and british, australian, french, etc. north kr
mircea_popescu: have you seen how slender koreans are ?
mircea_popescu: what makes you think you can make a north kr. with fatties ?
mircea_popescu: if you were a film producer you would filter the actors, yet reality doesn't care ?
ascii_field: not sure why one can't build it out of whoever, of lemurs, of bonobos.
mircea_popescu: but are you sure they can.
ascii_field: will try
mircea_popescu: well that ain't much.
mircea_popescu: for all you know sperm tries to impregnate the tiles everytime someone jacks off.
mircea_popescu: ever seen tilemonster ?
ascii_field: lol no
mircea_popescu: yeah, well...
mircea_popescu: this seemed a plausible theory for centuries at a stretch.
ascii_field: which? inertial guidance for spermatozoa ?
mircea_popescu: no, generation of demons and monsters through masturbation.
mircea_popescu: "it tried... and it succeeds, probably!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14356 @ 0.00028281 = 4.06 BTC [-]
ascii_field: what does it even mean - to 'succeed' at being north kr?
ascii_field: seems like the only item therein is a 'try;
mircea_popescu: i have no idea, your definition.
mircea_popescu: but in any case : i happen to think the attempt'd do a huge service to all usians.
mircea_popescu: they really could use some whipping.
ascii_field: 'heightening the contradictions' aha
ascii_field: (term of art)
assbot: Evidence proving that flight MH-17 was taken down by a BUK missile | RTL Nieuws ... ( )
jurov: wouldn't happen in 1600, yes
chetty: in 1600 there were still places to flee to
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't recall what the positions were there, was it the pro-russians saying the pro-nato downed it with a jet, and the pro-nato saying the pro-russians took it down with a buk ?
mircea_popescu: chetty like where ?
jurov: pro russians and alf said urks downed it with air-to-air missiles
mircea_popescu: "Investigation into the chemical composition showed that they are remains from a BUK missile, among which fragments from the warhead – the pay load. The fragment of the warhead consists of a low-quality alloy of steel common to this form of ammunition. It appears from electroscopic enlargements that a fragment shows a cast-on Cyrillic serial number from the Russian language next to a partly broken number 2."
mircea_popescu: this wasn't salted by any chance was it ?
jurov: it's still underway, we'll see
mircea_popescu: jurov so wait, the fact that it was downed by a missile is not disputed ? then why's this relevant ?
jurov: everything is disputed and muddied beyond all recognition
chetty: and so it will remain
jurov: but eventually some picture emerges. that would not be the case at all in 1600
mircea_popescu: of course it was ?
jurov: just that russians seem to stay stuck several centuries ago. to detriment of everyone.
jurov: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: jurov so the idea being that it's better in one empire than the other ?
mircea_popescu: i can see the argument.
assbot: Obama broaches the idea of mandatory voting ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ^ maybe next they can has a referendum too.
jurov: i did not mean to take it that far
mircea_popescu: jurov well... getting idiots to mind their own fucking business might be a bridge too far.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: gossipd
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo or anyone inclined, can we have a qntra piece discussing why is an attempted self-boon by fiat, which bitcoin will ignore like all the others ? and warn reuters and whatever idiot signed it to dessist from lying and misrepresenting while they still have their heads ?
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:32:00; assbot: In boon for bitcoin, UK to regulate digital currency exchanges| Reuters ... ( )
chetty: Saw a poll that 50% of americans still don't know health insurance is mandatory, wonder how they would pull off mandatory voting?
mircea_popescu: chetty same way they do here, or anywhere else for that matter : bus them in.
mircea_popescu: ostensibly to give them candy or something. THAT they will know about.
mircea_popescu: all it takes is to make inner city clinic prescriptions for "medication" contingent on voting card.
mircea_popescu: << only if your bios is set to that boot order i imagine.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 14:20:01; danielpbarron: today i learned that OpenBSD will boot into the installer if it finds the install CD in the drive while booting
mircea_popescu: << optical drive is burned. unlike usb which is rewritable.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 14:29:09; funkenstein_: is openbsd the only reason to have an optical drive?
mircea_popescu: lobbes well actually, since a bunch of uninformed idiots are creating the problem in the first place, adding more resolves it rather than anything.
danielpbarron: yeah, turns out that wasn't what was happening
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105709 @ 0.00028111 = 29.7159 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up bhcoins
mircea_popescu: you shouldn't go around logged into the windows equivalent of root.
ascii_field: jurov: admitting that i wasn't there, didn't shoot it,
ascii_field: jurov: do you not find it peculiar that the verdict was decided on by nato media immediately, without the corpses so much as having even cooled down ?
ascii_field: and reprinted on whole planet.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:33:12; assbot: GoDaddy accounts vulnerable to social engineering and Photoshop | CSO Online ... ( )
assbot: O hai let me verify your identity! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
jurov: no that's sop, RT rushed with its version likewise
ascii_field: how else.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field an advantageous explanation would be : they knew they didn't do it, so...
jurov: lol
ascii_field: and jurov is right - from nato-world standpoint, ru is holding the rest of the planet back - by annoyingly remaining alive and sitting on all that 'unearned' mineral resource and unraped land
ascii_field: this is precisely why eternal war
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:41:04; nubbins`: what?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ahem. the us is sitting on a lot of unearned mineral resources and unraped land. like say, alaska.
ascii_field: aha, similar
mircea_popescu: well so then this can't be it.
ascii_field: except that better at raping lands
ascii_field: more efficient economical system runs through the fuel - faster. elementary
mircea_popescu: simpler explanation : everyone in central europe hates the russians, because last time they had the chance to matter they fucked it up.
jurov: ascii_field: so what's your proposal for better post-cold-war arrngements?
mircea_popescu: everyone in the middle east hates the big satan / us for exact same reason
jurov: large
mircea_popescu: and russians don't have many freiends in the caucasus etc
ascii_field: jurov: arranging people is above my paygrade
ascii_field: jurov: just describing why 'there ain't room in the town for the both'of'em' to borrow from 'western' films
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> more efficient economical system runs through the fuel - faster. elementary << nope, other way around actually. the more advanced, the more fuel.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what i meant was, the rare earths of ru are largely still in the earth
mircea_popescu: so in alaska.
ascii_field: and likewise (though less so) the petro
mircea_popescu: dubious. most oil is probably in the sea.
jurov: that's russian paranoia from the US. it's clear beyond doubt, chinese will move to siberia first, given an opportunity
jurov: US is not risking a conflict there
ascii_field: jurov: they are already there
mircea_popescu: << easy my foot. i hope you try and think you succeeded and then automate it and then i rape you with dns poisoning.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:56:16; fluffypony: the fulfillment is easy
ascii_field: jurov: ask the folks who live there.
mircea_popescu: jurov you have a point, there.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I meant relatively easy
fluffypony: but yes
mircea_popescu: "relatively easy" as in "always works sorta" ?
fluffypony: the fact that you can fuck with something outside of it is a fail point
fluffypony: basically it can only ever work on things directly observable on the blockchain
mircea_popescu: your contract must be specified. once you specify it, you have specified a way to circumvent it. end of story.
fluffypony: which makes it fairly useless
mircea_popescu: so basically... it's about as redundant as everything else the power rangers have made, past coupla years.
fluffypony: "release the money to mircea_popescu if I send the money to mircea_popescu" is about the sum total of it
jurov: well... so you see what is the nato standpoint. not these "unraped" delusions
mircea_popescu: jurov maybe i don't ?
jurov: it was answer alf
jurov: *to alf
mircea_popescu: what, it's secret, i don't get to see it ? only the choice alfs ?
jurov: why do his worldview does bother me so, i don't know
mircea_popescu: well cause he lives with one set of idiots and you with the other.
mircea_popescu: you both need for your own sanity to misrepresent the other's set.
jurov: "from nato-world standpoint, ru is holding the rest of the planet back - by annoyingly remaining alive and sitting on all that 'unearned' mineral resource and unraped land"
jurov: is it a big misrepresentation to label it as paranoia?
mircea_popescu: only inasmuch as you think this is a label to begin with.
mircea_popescu: intl politics is petrified paranoia.
mircea_popescu: as it should be.
jurov: lolk
mircea_popescu: like saying "look at this cute 9 year old girl, i bet she's got a cunt between her legs under the skirt there" is rather impolitic,
chetty: it mostly needs more petrification
mircea_popescu: people will react when you point out the paranoia.
mircea_popescu: << imagine fi every time you went to buy something both you and the seller had to imobilize capital. wallmart would need trillions just to be able to keep doing business.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:56:38; danielpbarron: he's probably referring to some thing where both parties put up bitcoin collateral in an escrow controlled by "the block chain"
mircea_popescu: this "idea" is so fucking retarded it's perhaps the best advertisement to my ancient "you don't get to have ideas, go work for someone who matters" thing. only people without the first clue as to how things work could entertain such nonsense.
danielpbarron: speaking of which, here's the latest lulz from the forum:
danielpbarron: I'm sorry, maybe I don't understand where you're coming from, but why are you quoting Mircea Popescu? I admit I have not read this entire thread, so maybe there's a reason... but I don't see what value there is to quoting an insane, misogynistic, racist drug addict here? The guy has shown time and again that he has no idea what he's talking about and everything he has ever done in his life is complete garbage (just going by
mircea_popescu: << generally the correct strategy is "never compete in saturated markets". which is why i don't date, i don't vc, i don't business school etc.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:51:07; trinque: my both immediate and long-term strategy has been to identify markets where the software has languished, and to raid the space with something built well
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lol, did i become a drug addict once i stopped being a woman ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46400 @ 0.0002822 = 13.0941 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: or is that when i became mysoginistic.
chetty: they left out racist
mircea_popescu: racist gypsy!
mircea_popescu: for completeness.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65000 @ 0.0002822 = 18.343 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: did my paste get cut off? racist is in there.
mircea_popescu: can you be an insane drug addict ?
chetty: oh oops my bad
mircea_popescu: i thought drugs cured insanity.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lol account made today no less ? cute.
mircea_popescu: who is this then, goat ?
mircea_popescu: gotta admire danielpbarron's dedication tho.
mircea_popescu: everything he has ever done in his life is complete garbage (just going by what I've read of and from him, so I could be incorrect).
mircea_popescu: ajhaha you got cut off before the better parts.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what this guy did in his life that he's so upset at himself anyway.
mircea_popescu: must be goat.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo or anyone inclined, can we have a qntra piece discussing why << Sketching one out
mircea_popescu: coolness
mircea_popescu: one of the most fascinating things about reading satoshi's statements is just how often he makes the correct choice for the wrong reasons.
mircea_popescu: as a fine example, the bit danielpbarron quotes : "The proof-of-work also solves the problem of determining representation in majority decision making. If the majority were based on one-IP-address-one-vote, it could be subverted by anyone able to allocate many IPs. Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote."
mircea_popescu: if this implies he settled on pow for that reason, it then follows he chose the correct mechanism for exactly the wrong reason, becuase that's the only aspect under which pow has failed.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do thicker walls lower crime.
mircea_popescu: do thicker arteries lower embolisms too ?
mircea_popescu: << but that's exactly what it is. "more accessible", as in, tolerable for idiots, while inconvenient for smart people.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 17:06:07; thestringpuller: danielpbarron: re: youtube videos for dumb people << i've started thinking because Videos are much easier to consume than words, dumb people are more attracted to it cause they can "watch it" instead of "read it"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21540 @ 0.00028072 = 6.0467 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: << very true danielpbarron. blogs aren't a collection of literary fiction unless you particularly wish to do that. there's however a glut of bad ones, because many idiots think themselves "creative" when they're just stupid, ignorant and lazy.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 17:10:55; ben_vulpes: your pogo saga's a good start
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the well documented nonfiction blog is always well regarded, and as it happens stuff that's banal to you often will be fascinating to others. which is why a psychologist's blog is like, b-a's favourite blog or something.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 17:54:20; mod6: is anyone working on porting over the original submitted deeds to the new deedbot?
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 18:23:44; lobbes: I tell you, I've learned more in this channel in a year than I did my entire 4 years of college/university
trinque raises hand
trinque: had the distinct reaction after hanging out a while that "this is what university was supposed to have been..."
mircea_popescu: quite exactly.
mircea_popescu: "university" means elitist and antisocial. neither of these exists in the muggle world anymore,
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:53:07; jurov: << have you looked on the 1Fx addy? that would mean no new accounts since november
mircea_popescu: but the original universities were fortified, exactly to keep the redidtards of the time awya.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 20:22:56; mircea_popescu: << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer.
jurov: so nobody want so to be seen regging mpex account? lol
kakobrekla: thats so unlike mp.
mircea_popescu: nothing's more unlike mp than mp himself.
assbot: Index of / ... ( )
kakobrekla: i dont see how it makes sense to have a special deposit address for first registration+deposit and then you are fine using the single one for all of the rest of txes
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
kakobrekla: "theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses" < why would anyone be concerned only to have the first address for first deposit+registration unique but is then fine using 1fx for all later deposits
kakobrekla: does not compute
mircea_popescu: not how that works. generally if they get one they get one for all their stuff.
mircea_popescu: which imo is a degradation of privacy, but w/e.
kakobrekla: aha so every one of last 50 or so accounts requested this
kakobrekla: interdasting.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: jurov: i admit that i'd enjoy reading an article-length thought re: what is it between you and ru
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea, that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76500 @ 0.0002822 = 21.5883 BTC [+]
ascii_field: jurov: like, as with one fella i know, a certain country confiscated his family home and turned it into a (literal) city jail
ascii_field: coloured his opinions, yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.0002822 = 7.9298 BTC [+]
jurov: my opinions were formed by several friends eating disinfo that was later traced back to RT, with sink and hooker
mircea_popescu: you know, just because most people find sooner or later personal reasons to hate large groups of idiots doesn't reduce the problem.
mircea_popescu: hook line and sinker lol
mircea_popescu: ahahaha sink and hooker excellent
jurov: heh
ascii_field: jurov: notice that i don't live in ru, and nobody's inviting me over. but i happen to see the conflict of irreconcilable civilizations thing, and see the ru version - with the orc barbarism, yes - as less moribund
mircea_popescu: see it's from fishing, when a fish bites so hard it eats not just the bait, but with it the hook, and the bit of fishing line all theway to the floating thing
jurov: yes that what i meant
trinque: it's those kinds of perspectives expressed here that I would *never* have encountered in daily life
chetty: rt/nbc/cnn all the same big disinfo machine
kakobrekla: anyway just to conclude ihmo this accounts thing does not hold water, but wont poke further.
ascii_field: chetty: rt makes ru-flavoured disinfo, so not same
trinque: chetty: and sure, always knew they were rivers of shit; still hadn't ever heard from anyone that for example even knew what russia was like internally
mircea_popescu: rt = russia today, ftr, not reuters
chetty: << would not be terribly surprised if they had the same puppet master
ascii_field: chetty: there is a confounding factor: that much of su was bought up at fire-sale by usg operatives
ascii_field: some of whom are still in business
ascii_field: but slowly being euchred out
mircea_popescu: not so slowly. mostly done by now.
mircea_popescu: paranoia only remains in the tank.
jurov: we can close whole thing with "everyone is doing it" but.. when did bbc published something like rt did "EU is preparing laws to take your children and to give them to homosexuals"?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla sadly one can't have at the same time verifiability and opacity.
trinque: jurov: bbc works in the opposite direction, covering up for the uk politicans raping the kids themselves
mircea_popescu: jurov different audience, different priors.
jurov: trinque: proof bbc was involved?
chetty: they do their share of making rhe russian the bad guys homosexulas can¿t drive there
mircea_popescu: basically you're saying "how come the man doesn't have a bra ?" when discussing whether man and woman are both dressed.
mircea_popescu: just because man doesn't wear a bra doesn't show much about it, men don't wear bras, they wear ties.
assbot: The BBC is still ignoring evidence of a potential cover-up over Jimmy Savile - Telegraph ... ( )
mircea_popescu: trinque did they ever run the stories about how uk soldiers ran a private rape camp in africa, paying the refugees about a dollar per year of age for all night ?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu so you will allow for your clients to get fucked, as you strongly believe that addr reuse is the the way to go, yet you will serve poisonous uniques to clients.
trinque: mircea_popescu: damn, hadn't heard that one
mircea_popescu: o, you hadn't, had you.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla people with enough money have this priviledge, that they may order whatever they wish in the restaurant.
mircea_popescu: they're expected to know for themselves.
mircea_popescu: if they order puffer fish because "i know what i'm doing", they get puffer fish.
jurov: i did not say bbc is innocent. but covering apparatchik's mishaps vs. war propaganda aimed to alienating whole groups of population?
mircea_popescu: jurov i doubt that's actually a group in russia tho.
kakobrekla: so when someone requests css ?
assbot: Inside the Kremlin Troll Army Machine: Templates, Guidelines, and Paid Posts · Global Voices ... ( )
kakobrekla: this going by what customers want anti b-a bs
assbot: Soldiers rape more than TWO HUNDRED women and children in Darfur village in eight-hour attack | Daily Mail Online ... ( )
cazalla: mircea_popescu please to translate and inform if anything interesting
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla they can make their own!
trinque: mircea_popescu: sounds about right
kakobrekla: as they can use their own coin washer for deposits
mircea_popescu: cazalla : in context of virtual coins, bnr makes the following statements : "not national currency, not foreign currency, no one has to accept it as a means of payment"
mircea_popescu: "not electronic money as defined in 127/2011"
mircea_popescu: "ecb has a report about potential risks etc, here"
mircea_popescu: "also, eba warned so and so"
mircea_popescu: "we are trying to keep track."
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla myeah.
mircea_popescu: cazalla inb a word, i'd say it's exactly the correct position.
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, if you feel like digging, the outrage of mass rape by uk & other nato soldiers in darfour is amply documented, if amply buried by the "respectable" anglo venues, starting with bbc.
mircea_popescu: this has been an ongoing problem for a good half decade by now, if not longer, and in this sense exactly identical to hitler rule in europe,
trinque: I'll check it out
trinque: I know we did things like this in Iraq
mircea_popescu: which is why i'm very little inclined to take jurov's ideas about you know, russia holding anyone back too seriously. all states are evil.
trinque: indeed
mircea_popescu: one could perhaps shop for evils one likes, these stone homosexuals, those rape niggers, those others strangle unvirgin teens, whatever.
mircea_popescu: but fundamentally, you're rooting through shit.
BingoBoingo: I just hope the big 3 (Russia, China, USia) simply keep up their current equilibrium of losing.
mircea_popescu: china's not lost anything yet.
mircea_popescu: neither has russia, but then again it can be granted it doesn't need to, having been so recently gutted entirely.
trinque: china's maneuver against the US will go down in history
mircea_popescu: which one ?
trinque: getting us to sign onto free trade agreements, etc
BingoBoingo: Not yet, but China's going to need a war soon to cut down their surplus dude problem.
mircea_popescu: ah yeah. under threat of south china sea etc.
mircea_popescu: and especially the poltroonish reaction of the us to that...
trinque: the way they absorbed our industrial capacity is astounding
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i do not think so. i think they're trying to drone them.
mircea_popescu: if this works, china will become irresistible to say, me.
mircea_popescu: imagine, a country over a billion strong, in which nine in ten young males are castrated.
mircea_popescu: how could you NOT live there. perusing cnreddit and thinking "yeah... but then again... they cut his balls off"
mircea_popescu: the us version of the same thing is outright annoying.
mircea_popescu: After the battle, Hermoine becomes concerned that women are underrepresented among heros of the wizarding world, and starts a “Society for the Promotion of Heroic Equality for Witches” or SPHEW.
mircea_popescu: lmao by now this is self-parodic.
ascii_field: all states are evil << entirely below the conflict between the mega-states, is some pretty fundamental clash of civilizations
mircea_popescu: there's no usian "civilisation". there's also no russian civilisation.
mircea_popescu: as painful as this may sound to teh respective loyalists.
BingoBoingo: Mao and the Japs ended whatever might have been Chinese civilization
mircea_popescu: well maybe uninformedly, but i do believe there is such a thing as chinese, and european civilisation.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i won't say specifically ru, but various aspects like 'children belong to parents as meat, not to the state' being in their bones
ascii_field: and other resistance to 'civilized' degeneracy
mircea_popescu: the notion that the first's fighting a proxy war with the second via us/ru is... a little too livresque for my taste.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's chinese. confucianism through and through.
funkenstein_: sounds like y'all think nations are still relevant
funkenstein_: how long do i need to cryosleep for?
ascii_field: ru is sorta what cn might have looked like if it had sat next to europe
ascii_field: without the buffer zone
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ relevancy is a function ofwhat's being discussed. we're discussing nations.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: ascii_field if cn sat next to europe there wouldn't be a europe.
mircea_popescu: both the muscovys and the abassyds very useful for this .
mircea_popescu: and generally unrecognised for it, too.
ascii_field: aha. but in the process of digesting it, cn would have turned into something like ru
mircea_popescu: or like syria.
ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you actually think 'nations are irrelevant' and that folks across the sea are funnily-accented clones of yourself - buy a plane ticket, learn something
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fucktarded notion that "children belong to the goddess" that not even repressive medieval christianity could stamp out may well be a problem of the western line.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not only it
mircea_popescu: nations are ironically more relevant than states.
ascii_field: states come and go, civilizations are in it for the long (but not infinitely long...) haul.
funkenstein_: well i understand i still need a passport
funkenstein_: ascii_field, that's what i did learn when i did travel
ascii_field: funkenstein_: but unless i misunderstand, you see the passport as a dumb, pointless ritual
funkenstein_: entirely so yes
ascii_field: that you are 'generic human' who ought to be equally wanted anywhere
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ what's your idea of travel ?
ascii_field: and that folks who disagree, are necessarily idiots ?
funkenstein_: equally treated as useless unless evidence is presented otherwise
trinque: someone will always own the dirt, and have a name for himself and the people who live there.
ascii_field: from where this presumption ?
ascii_field: of 'wanted by default'
funkenstein_: mirecea_popescu, change of position with time? i misunderstand your question
mircea_popescu: well, did you ever spend time abroad ? how much ? did you learn the local language ? did you fuck local or brownbag ? etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21973 @ 0.00028072 = 6.1683 BTC [-]
funkenstein_: i've spent time on several continents
funkenstein_: held jobs in a couple
ascii_field: which continents ?
funkenstein_: europe, north america
ascii_field: so never left your birth civilization.
funkenstein_: visited s.a., asia
ascii_field: visited as in, came & took pictures? or more ?
funkenstein_: mostly gringo stuff but not tour guide. some hitchhiking and low budget stuff, but nothing i would brag about here
mircea_popescu: lol oddly protective. you have to learn a foreign language yo. you have to love a woman that's perfectly incomprehensible for your parents. that's what travel is . the rest's tourism.
funkenstein_: i like that, you gotta meet the locals
mircea_popescu: as a local.
mircea_popescu: that's the golden standard as a field anthropologist : once the gorillas start plucking your lice.
mircea_popescu: not once you get the lice.
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, lulzy scene. my in bucharest, with slavegirl, at mother's appartment. she goes "oh, so she's X ?" "yeah. would you like to see her naked ?"
mircea_popescu: "o nononononono"
ascii_field: lol, was 'X' a clit-optional country, or what
mircea_popescu: just a name
mircea_popescu: for that matter, me in istanbul. very competent local secret service guy wants to know where i'm from. "i'm american" "no you're not. you're bulgarian or something".
mircea_popescu: guy was THAT GOOD.
ascii_field: amer can be distinguished from anybody else from a cannon's shot range
ascii_field: so no big trick here
mircea_popescu: yes, but he also got the right general direction.
funkenstein_: USian you mean i suppose
funkenstein_: oh he left
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: He might be communting from the field
funkenstein_: harvesting ascii for us in the field
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Oh no that's just his substance. You know instead of being limited to TCAG like the rest of us his genetics require the whole character set.
funkenstein_: lol, wow that's quite a bit more information then
BingoBoingo: $^*anine is a helluva nucleic acid
BingoBoingo: As is ]/anine
BingoBoingo: !up shesek
funkenstein_: i tested the 0.5.3 build on an old ubuntu box, built like a charm
funkenstein_: i hope to make myself useful around here eventually
mircea_popescu: i didn't leave lol.
mircea_popescu: oh , him. nm :p
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ you could get a pogo.
funkenstein_: !s pogo
assbot: 238 results for 'pogo' :
assbot: Community Discussion: Blog by ShadowXOR | Why 28 Weeks Later is a horrible movie (SPOILERS)Destructoid ... ( )
danielpbarron: "OK, here's the plan. Our evacuation tactic is to lock everyone in this room. They should all be extremely safe there. Except we haven't secured the vent OR fire escape... Oh well, I'm sure they'll be fine." They must have been evacuated for maybe TEN MINUTES before the zombie breaks into the fire escape door. Wow, that is a fantastic "safe zone".
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: About how it would work IRL. "Security Theater" and all that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.0002822 = 1.8625 BTC [+]
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu:
assbot: You dumb fuckers need to stop making it so easy for people to steal your bitcoin. : Bitcoin ... ( )
BingoBoingo: !up CheckDavid
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 98.31517126 BTC. Current weight: 88,357.
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.75645355 BTC. Current weight: 93,293.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36894 @ 0.0002822 = 10.4115 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17450 @ 0.00028461 = 4.9664 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ^ in today.
asciilifeform: there's no shortage of'em here.
BingoBoingo: Beautiful
asciilifeform: (ordered - tues.)
BingoBoingo spent some time today looking longingly looking at sun blade 150's (model I did not know existed or had forgotten about) on Ebay.
asciilifeform: lol, why?!
asciilifeform: though a 'sun ray' might make an interesting openbsd box
BingoBoingo: Does the sun ray have any compute power of its own? Blade 150 looked interesting because somewhat portable pizza box form, IDE drives, and good old VGA monitor hookups.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it has some ultra-miniature sparc iirc
asciilifeform: tiny little thing
asciilifeform: sorta like a 'pogo'
assbot: Sun Blade (workstation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Blade 150 seemed to offer some compute power while also offering more EM shielding than its Blade 100 bredecessor
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I liked that form factor. Just looking at the models that slice a zero off of the model number atm.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the most 'shieldy' box i've ever personally owned was a hp 'visualize'
asciilifeform: emf mesh behind all openings
BingoBoingo: It's a beautiful thing
asciilifeform: everything, incl. mb, slid out on rails
asciilifeform: all or mostly all steel, mad-heavy
asciilifeform: the power supply also slid out
asciilifeform: (at one point had spare, old one - exploded capacitor, filled dorm floor with smoke)
asciilifeform: funny thing, it sat in my old flat for... 7 years, in the kitchen closet, filled with rat shit
asciilifeform: when moving last year - left it on the kerb. and someone picked it up...
BingoBoingo: I dunno what it is with your flavor of swamp and rats
asciilifeform: what, where BingoBoingo lives there are no rats ?
BingoBoingo: Maybe here there just isn't enough of a niche for them between mice and racoons
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Southern Illinois, about 30 miles east of East StL
asciilifeform: huge rats here, straight out of the ratfacecage scene in '1984'
asciilifeform: at night they walk, you can see'em
asciilifeform: incidentally i often wonder if the ratfacecage is still in fashion somewhere
BingoBoingo: I've only here ever seen rats purchased from petstore.
BingoBoingo: At night walking I see plenty of cats, coons, groundhogs, foxes, and coyotes. Haven't ever identified a rat
asciilifeform: ^ from, i think, one of the film versions
BingoBoingo: I think I may have seen that version
BingoBoingo: We've also got fucktons of squirrels
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: << woah!
mod6: <+funkenstein_> i tested the 0.5.3 build on an old ubuntu box, built like a charm << nice! thanks for the info
BingoBoingo: Maybe here the rats know to stay in the farm fields, but... They don't seem endemic here like the mice do.
BingoBoingo: Mice plainly exist here get into the birdseed and shit all over the garage.
asciilifeform: ^ mega-lulzatron
cazalla: bloody mother in laws who give their daughters the idea that you need a new car simply because the old one is looking old (despite being fucking fine mechanically wise)
hanbot: maybe she wants the old one.
cazalla: hanbot, nope, she has a merc to drive around in, mcmansion etc (all paid for by the long dead but rich father in law mind you)
hanbot: so then maybe she could buy you a new one.
cazalla: if there is anything that gets my blood pressure sky rocketing, it's people tell me or someone close to me how i should spend money on useless shit
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Are they interested in purchasing the Saturn of Supremacy?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, god forbid she drive around in anything less than brand new!
BingoBoingo: cazalla: But battle tested.
asciilifeform: cazalla clearly has insufficient reputation for poverty
hanbot: for australia or generally?
cazalla: asciilifeform, you have no idea i tells ya
asciilifeform: cultivate this reputation.
asciilifeform: it may well save your skin
BingoBoingo: This Saturn sedan has forded roads deeper than the floor of the passenger compartment, traveled to the other side of a divided freeway, and still burns fuel like a miser
asciilifeform: possibly the most dangerous animal to be in the lands of usg (and au, as i understand, is a kind of target practice range for usg idiocies) is the fella with just enough to be worth skinning, but three or four zeroes short of mircea_popescu-esque atomic dirigible where he can hit back
cazalla: even if bitcoin was 10k per, a brand new car is an extravagance i would not spring for
asciilifeform: *endangered animal
asciilifeform: (rather than dangerous)
BingoBoingo: Brand new car is the worst possible expense in the Anglophone world. Nearly half the sticker price goes straight to the fire.
asciilifeform: was about to say
asciilifeform: i'd rather fill a suitcase with benjies & publicly burn it
asciilifeform: than buy a new car
BingoBoingo: If it came to replacing my current vehicle I'd prolly start looking at used police crown vics
mircea_popescu: mod6 got tons more of thems.
BingoBoingo: Question: Is chav capitalized or not in proper usage?
asciilifeform: mod6 is passing'em out or running personally
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82160 @ 0.00028555 = 23.4608 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo wonders if Big endian bitcoind will happen before all of the blockchain passes the 127 GB most interesting of such machines are limited to.
BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr How goes Big endian bitcoind
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo is welcome to build it bigendian now
Luke-Jr: I believe it's merged.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I need working hardware. In the past I've treated such bexen as too disposable. Ingnored fans cries for help.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Cool.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'pogo' contains a switchable-endianness micro
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Is this on pre or post leveldb?
cazalla: asciilifeform, my reputation for poverty IRL might not match with what goes on here simply because the one thing i will spend money on is food/drink.. every unit i've rented furnished with second hand goods, i've purchased clothing from the same places (mind you, have not purchased clothing in at least 2 years)
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: post of course. LevelDB is part of the Bitcoin consensus protocol now.
asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: LevelDB bitcoin doesn't build on my favored *nix at all.
Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: no? :o
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: it is necessarily
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: but why does it matter on protocol level what kind of db is used locally ?
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol
Luke-Jr: which is inherently defined by the code
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: OpenBSD. I had the choice of debugging a bunch of wank or reverting to 0.7.2 and hand patching.
Luke-Jr: if leveldb fails to insert a UTXO, then a transaction creating that UTXO is invalid by the consensus rules
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: but why does it matter on protocol level what kind of db is used locally ?
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: ah, hm. I wonder how easily just adding some OpenBSD checks similar to the FreeBSD ones would go
BingoBoingo: Some people had built 0.9.x -sh on openbsd according to stories but no recipies were supplied
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: consensus protocols are not like network protocols
asciilifeform: yes but why 'leveldb.' say i'd like to use a db which runs on a martian trinary computer and writes bits to miniature dead babies turned in one of two directions
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if it is not bug-for-bug compatible with LevelDB, someone can fork you off the network
asciilifeform: how does consensus care, so long as i answer queries in precisely same way as 'leveldb' user
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Well for openbsd builds fired live the big change isn't db at all, but in wallet.cpp changing the random call to a better one (should not be necessary in -current or 5.7)
midnightmagic: NetBSD builds and syncs to head almost trivially now.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if you emulate LevelDB perfectly, you are fine, correct
midnightmagic: Linux on PPC builds and syncs to head based on the bigendian patch. I have not verified it against a current git yet.
BingoBoingo: midnightmagic> NetBSD builds and syncs to head almost trivially now. << But so much memory unsafety
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: can you give an example of a 'wedge' which could be pounded in to create this fork ?
midnightmagic: BingoBoingo: hm?
asciilifeform: there are still plenty of non-'leveldb' nodes operating
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: since fixed
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: know of another ?
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: yes, but not without a fork
BingoBoingo: midnightmagic: Example of a NetBSD problem set.
assbot: invented by openbsd ... ( )
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it's coincidence. if there is ever an insert which succeeds in leveldb but fails in bdb, those nodes will no longer be capable of sync'ing to head.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if we knew about it, it wouldn't exist anymore ;)
Luke-Jr: a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures
Luke-Jr: that's a consensus rule based on old versions of OpenSSL code
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: most those problems I've read so far are only problems if you let randos log in to your bitcoind box. I personally would not be interested in running a non-dedicated bitcoind box on any OS.
asciilifeform: but midnightmagic is thinking of security, rather than forkholes
asciilifeform: !up Luke-Jr
Luke-Jr: "forkholes" *are* security relevant
BingoBoingo: <Luke-Jr> a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures << Has the problem of people creating such sigs really happened outside of the goxnode retardation beginning block 168001?
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: if the usg charlatans want to create a fork with incompatible tx validation rules, they are welcome to.
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: the thing I'd be more concerned about was the recent non-random random number generator they committed to released versions.
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: if someone wants to trick you into accepting an invalid block, they can use this to do so
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: they dodged a bullet and nobody's called them on it
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: freebsd turned stool pigeon long ago
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: when it ditched gcc
BingoBoingo: The entire FreeBSD 10 series is a replay of the 5 series retardation on steroids
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: let's insert a link to the old thread here, so we don't have to repeat it.
BingoBoingo: ^ Noone used Theos NetBSD fork in 1996
Luke-Jr: OSs are not a consensus system
midnightmagic: how is it a stool pigeon?
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i don't think anyoine's using them anymore seriously.
midnightmagic: Also, I don't know much about FreeBSD except they caught their shitty /dev/random mistake before it was released to production
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 03:29:14; mircea_popescu: !up Luke-Jr
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: it -was- released to production
asciilifeform: plenty of folks run -CURRENT
asciilifeform: i had a box with it, for instance
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it was released to -current, running -current is explicitly disclaimed.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr> OSs are not a consensus system << No but every OS fork is a far less grave experiment actual onsensus systems must consider
midnightmagic: yeah, I run -current on NetBSD occasionally too..
asciilifeform: folks doing dev work of one kind or another - run 'current'
asciilifeform: whether like it or not.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:29:13; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al:
mircea_popescu: the actual unit is tiny, makes the crate look like it's 60% packaging
midnightmagic: yeah, kernel devs. In context, running bitcoind on -current, probably not a great idea given extensive -current history of breakage
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's mostly cardboard, as you can tell
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't intend to bring the cardboard
midnightmagic: like the really unfortunate backout of the M:N threading model on NetBSD. that was a sad time.
mircea_popescu: threading works on netbsd ?
asciilifeform: threading works on any posix
mircea_popescu: i tyhought they were stuggling with getting it to work.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99387 @ 0.00029365 = 29.185 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: musta misread.
asciilifeform shudders to imagine a unixlike os where threading flakes
mircea_popescu: bsd is bsdlike neh ?
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: M:N threading was a solaris-like, more-performant-than N:N threading model that nate committed to netbsd, but due to its complexity had to be backed out because nobody could maintain it or reliably fix bugs in it.
assbot: [base] Contents of /head/share/misc/bsd-family-tree ... ( )
midnightmagic: idea was, only spawn additional *kernel* threads to service user threads where it was absolutely necessary
midnightmagic: breakfast-time, sorry to derail convo
BingoBoingo really dislikes the way leveldb handles memory.
BingoBoingo would rather not have to run a Bitcoind in -leper mode if he gets more powerful sparc hardware
asciilifeform: the 'bug for bug' thing is set to be an actual problem in the future.
BingoBoingo: It is, just like in TeX but more urgent
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:24:28; mircea_popescu: you're stuck with that. how do you think the original fork happened.
asciilifeform: ^ that thread.
Luke-Jr: well, LevelDB is being excluded from libbitcoinconsensus at least
mircea_popescu: only way to manage it i can think of at the moment is disallowing the power ranger imbeciles from further commits
mircea_popescu: this having already been done... we'll have to figure something out.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: bug-for-bug is okay if all consensus code is kept carefully audited
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dare say i did figure out. but not enough hands here.
Luke-Jr: ignoring CPU issues..
mircea_popescu: no rush anyway.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: try to understand the actual scope of such an audit
BingoBoingo: At the time of the 2013 fork I humbly though resolution would be possible. I mean it is just making DB's agree. Yet... LevelDB is a mess.
asciilifeform: should be enough to make your stomach do pirouettes
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:01:13; BingoBoingo: Question: Is chav capitalized or not in proper usage?
asciilifeform: i thought it was 'chavv'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: K, working on that UK piece
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, it is one syllible
asciilifeform: do we even get a 'vv' in engl. and if so, what human sound does it correspond to
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:01; asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?
asciilifeform: i can picture how
asciilifeform: but was hoping the answer is something else
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You don't ger such sound it corresponds to choking on saliva
mircea_popescu: through a bunch of ignorant twerps using words they don't understand the meaning of, in the context of their self-allocated importance ?
asciilifeform: aha how else
asciilifeform has understood that there is not an else
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it'll do just as well as all preivious rehashes of this process.
BingoBoingo: Anyone have a link for britania's private key siezure turding?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there was one in here around 12 hrs ago
BingoBoingo is atm only on the fall of the empire
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: you audit only the changes
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: the changes being contemplated involve losing 100% of the original
mircea_popescu: << contrary to what you might have erroneously come to believe a) 0.5.1 version as printed by the bitcoin foundation is the cannonical version of bitcoin ; b) various groups of scammers trying to attack bitcoin are continuously pushing their own versions of solidcoin, which has all the importance of ms boring's bitcoin chamber of commerce.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:17; Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now
Luke-Jr: it's managable with a single implementation
mircea_popescu: "only audit the changes" ?
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: in the old thread, that is; it was about a hypothetical clean re-implementation of the whole thing
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: and there mircea_popescu observed that such a thing would have to come with a strong proof of equivalence to be worth taking seriously
mircea_popescu: where does all this braindamage stem from, seriously. what's the difference between an "only audit the changes auditing process" and dead reckoning ?
BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez
mircea_popescu: every time you change anything you're stuck auditing the whole thing you changed./
asciilifeform: what kind of dope does one need to take to even imagine otherwise ?
mircea_popescu: same dope that they weren't smart tosling in the first place.
asciilifeform: but apparently this dope is being passed out, because i routinely run into folks who have this kind of mental bug
mircea_popescu: ended up eating it.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 02:28:39; asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
mircea_popescu: << gotta admire the insistence on branding. here's a thought : gavin's neck was broken in public. you don't come out of that by inventing a new word to try and rally support around.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:49; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol
mircea_popescu: you don't have support, principally because you were not good enough, and failed to grasp this in time.
asciilifeform: for a corpse, he's doing a good deal of dancing.
mircea_popescu: not my fault usg is into necrophillia.
mircea_popescu: but in his defense, pretty much his entire career consists of party entertainment in costume, so...
asciilifeform: pyronecrocryptozoophilia.
thestringpuller: lol cryptophilia
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:49:54; asciilifeform: all you have to do, then, is to pile on the meat puppets, until suddenly there is a 'controversy', and there are 'points of view', and eventually - a 'consensus.'
brendafdez: i thought you may want ot have a laugh and it seems it wasn't shared here yet:
assbot: Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( )
brendafdez: Cisco has poked around its routers for possible spy chips, but to date has not found anything because it necessarily does not know what NSA taps may look like, according to Stewart." :D
asciilifeform: what a muppet show
mircea_popescu: anyway, for the sake of historical accuracy, re : bitcoin STILL USES the bdb protocol.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:10:30; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit
asciilifeform: 'spy chips'
mircea_popescu: leveldb has mostly been beaten into submission to it.
mircea_popescu: but the first time it didn't submit its chain was abandoned
mircea_popescu: and the second time it won't, if that happens, its chain will be also abandoned.
mircea_popescu: i can see why the gavin troop would like the defense of "we have already moved the protocol once" to rely on, but it's simply not true.
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: With Cisco the NSA spying likely begins on the main silicon out of the factory
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't ask cisco for their own heads on a platter.
asciilifeform: begins with every fart of the program design and ends with the crate which is opened yet again for good measure
asciilifeform: simply to be loudly found out and distract from above.
brendafdez: Don't be so mean, they are busy looking for the spy chips
mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised cisco still pretends to be in business
asciilifeform: and for the wreckerz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about that one! they've not sold anything to anyone since last year. and yet...
asciilifeform: for the враги народа
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they sell to the usual captive audience, that suffices
mircea_popescu: right right.
asciilifeform: plus the consumer crud (linksys) they bought out
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Spy chips are what keep Cisco in business
asciilifeform: !up Luke-Jr
mircea_popescu: << lmao. newer versions are forks, yo. that's the definition of the words.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:16:20; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork.
brendafdez: Oh, that's sad, I though I knew eho they'd just hired to look for them. "Yeah I suppose the sad story in here is that if you show supposedly literate teenagers the insides of a USB stick they may be seeing it for the first time, and if you demand they point out the actual memory cores to save their lives they may well not be able to."
assbot: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and no, bitcoin's rules are not defined by "what people use".
mircea_popescu: if that were the actual criteria, then "bitcoin" would be green and printed on paper.
mircea_popescu: cotton paper, to be exact.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin rules are defined by what important people use, and as it happens gavin & co are unimportant.
mircea_popescu: to no-one's surprise except i guess a coupla code monkeys here and there who really bought the "doocracy" koolaid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146300 @ 0.00029711 = 43.4672 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Dark Fibre: Reg man plunges into London's sewers to see how pipe is laid • The Register ... ( )
asciilifeform likes the term 'brown fiber' used in this article, wonders if actual extant term of art or neologism
mircea_popescu: prolly what the crews called it since forever.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 got tons more of thems. << hmm?
mod6: ahh.
mod6: yeah, gotta get me one and try it out
asciilifeform: 'you’re not going to find a cable poking up in the loo of a data centre when it reaches its destination.' << at one point there was a vendor who pushed a 'robotic rat' for doing precisely this
mircea_popescu: mod6 definitely.
mod6: maybe i'll order one this coming week
mircea_popescu: especially seeing how the ~60 or so nodes left running are really not enough for 2012.
BingoBoingo: I wish Scotland would have seceeded so I could justify writing "Lower Britain" more often
BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 262.96, Best ask: 263.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 263.0, 24 hour volume: 67036.12085919, 24 hour low: 250.33, 24 hour high: 269.5, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 243205 @ 0.00030067 = 73.1244 BTC [+] {4}
danielpbarron: why does gribble's vwap go away whenever there's the slightest volatility? and why does the vwap work if you get a quote in terms of ounces of gold?
BingoBoingo: !uo n3xtb1gthng
BingoBoingo: !up decimation
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Because it moved from deadstamp to buttfines
danielpbarron: it did it on buttstamp too
BingoBoingo inquires if there are any good proofreaders active atm that could serve the qntra
decimation: lol 'consensus rules'
BingoBoingo: !up n3xtb1gthng
n3xtb1gthng: thanks BingoBoingo
n3xtb1gthng: what's new guys?
mod6: <+Luke-Jr> asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork. << not true. i'm using it.
BingoBoingo: n3xtb1gthng: Well, a bitcoind build that is bigendian friendly for PPC, SPARC, and 68000 would be the tits
n3xtb1gthng: do those arcs run bitcoin today? (standard bitcoin)
BingoBoingo: !up nubbins`
mod6: !up Luke-Jr
Luke-Jr: mod6: on what listening IP?
mod6: a routable one :)
Luke-Jr: I'd like to investigate why my crawler isn't picking it up
assbot: dpaste: 3W20RWJ ... ( )
Luke-Jr: 8 connections generally means not listening
mod6: o.O how is it syncing blocks then?
Luke-Jr: outbound connections
mod6: tcp 0 0* LISTEN
Luke-Jr: …
Luke-Jr: is not routable, so this tells me nothing.
brendafdez: BingoBoingo I'm available, too. Not sure about the 'good' part, though.
mod6: hmm. derp.
mod6: one sec.
danielpbarron: is bitcoind still giving out version numbers to other nodes?
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: of course
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 143.1676222 BTC. Current weight: 47,015.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 103.31517126 BTC. Current weight: 88,245.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 143.1676222 BTC. Current weight: 47,015.
n3xtb1gthng: is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)?
n3xtb1gthng: seigniorage would incentivize spending and usage/adoption. (even at a very moderate leve.)
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, that is the kind of thing bitcoin has come to destroy
Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: in what sense? it costs more to mine bitcoins than you get already
danielpbarron: arguably, bitcoin *is* doing that thought, as it only costs what? 150 USD worth of electricty to mine 1 bitcoin which should be worth millions of USD
n3xtb1gthng: Luke-Jr, I mean if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it).
danielpbarron: and why would we want to incentivize spending?? doesn't that goal contradict "mass adoption" ?
n3xtb1gthng: I mean a low percentage of seigniorage, not like 10% inflation or anything.
danielpbarron: "hey you! adopt this! ok now spend it! get rid of it! quick!"
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, ?? spending = mass adoption
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I'm totally unclear. spending literally == (=========) adoption, when it comes to a currency?
danielpbarron: bitcoin is currently inflating
mod6: goddamnit im retarded
Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: such a thing would violate the social contract; altcoins don't have a preexisting social contract to adhere to
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, it's losing value, not inflaitng.
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, spending is literally the opposite of adopting as you are necessarily getting rid of the thing you are spending
PeterL: saving == adoption
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, 3.6k bitcoin are created daily
trinque: Luke-Jr: what "social contract" does bitcoin have?
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I disagree. if twenty people are trading seashells at a rate of twenty trades happen per day, that is high adotpion. at the rate of 1 seashell gets traded per year, that is low adotpion. adoption = spending.
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, what altcoin are you here to pump?
cazalla: oh look n3xtb1gthng is yet another person suggesting i spend my money, gtfo
n3xtb1gthng: cazalla you can both spend money and get money? The definition of a 'currency' is just a unit you do this in?
mircea_popescu: <n3xtb1gthng> is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)? << about the same sort of philosophical reason as not building a tail into you.
mircea_popescu: like some other monkeys have done.
n3xtb1gthng: cazalla - I mean if you didn't want the possibility of spending it, how is it even money? It's only money because you know people will accept it :) :) And that comes from the fact that they accept everyone else's - i.e. high adoption.
PeterL: trinque: the "social contract" of bitcoin is the "spec" as laid out by satoshi in the white paper
trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase
n3xtb1gthng: If someone isn't receiving hundreds of bitcoins per day from any other source, how do you know they will accept yours? And if you don't know they will accept yours, how do you know that you hold money? adoption = acceptance and usage
brendafdez: <Luke-Jr> if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it). << sounds like keynesian braindamage
cazalla: n3xtb1gthng, if people willingly accept my worthless dollars, i would be foolish to give them something of actual value eh
brendafdez: If that was a feature, we'd be using Freicoin
mircea_popescu: !down n3xtb1gthng
cazalla: anyway i don't need this aggravation, had enough of it today
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, as long as MPEx accepts my coin I'm alright with it
mircea_popescu: srsly, random shitheads know what things are now. what is this, the future ?
mircea_popescu: Jun 07 17:31:33 *ninjashogun ( has joined #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, all the idiots are the same one idiot.
cazalla: lol
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.
trinque: hungary for attention?
mod6: Luke-Jr: anyway, im trying to listen on -port=8333 but i think aws is doing something funny.
brendafdez fucked it, I thought it was Luke-Jr saying that shit.
Luke-Jr: mod6: IIRC AWS has some kind of firewall by default
trinque: Luke-Jr: yep, gotta enable things in the security group
Luke-Jr: anyhow, wife demands me in bed, so ttyl
decimation: mod6: you gotta turn off the firewall in aws/ec2
decimation: for every port of interest
trinque: mod6: note you can open it only for another security group
decimation: look under the 'security groups' column in your instance
decimation: imma compiling aws now too
trinque: that's convenient if you're going ec2 -> ec2
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i instantly knew who it was
mod6 hangs head
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needed his nick plus perhaps 3 words out of his idiot mouth
asciilifeform: (mr spam!)
mircea_popescu: << gotta say, nice of all teh peeps sending donations
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 ... ( )
mod6: i think that's mostly my testing + taxation
mircea_popescu: you sent teh .1337 ?
mircea_popescu: neways, five cents here, a cent there etc
mod6: yeah, and .01337498 and a bunch of other small amounts
mod6: yeah. its cool tho
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah he was ringing my markov model too
mircea_popescu: but this is a totally new topic ?
mircea_popescu: markov how, all the dude was talking about before were genius biznis ideas and stuff.
asciilifeform: his new nick alone was a loud, profane fart in that direction
mircea_popescu: << rousseauism, when confronted with "well if the state isn't god's successor, why would anyone listen to it" he came up with a weirdo translation of god in burgeois terms.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 02:38:35; trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase
mircea_popescu: god isn't the first warrior anymore, which all other warriors owe fealty too, god is now the first contract which all contracts are derived fro
trinque: mircea_popescu: sounded like a nothing term to me, meaning "accept that this is so"
trinque: yeah
mircea_popescu: nonsense through and through, but whadda ya want, encyclopedists, ie transhumanists v1.0
mircea_popescu: (the Dictionnaire raisonne des sciences, des arts, et des metiers. was essentially a b-a of the time fork of human knowledge of the time. it was wildly successful in spite of being mostly wrong)
trinque: I don't know much about rousseau, except that I recall him being mentioned by someone who was arguing bureaucracy was the greatest of all human inventions, and this with utter seriousness
decimation: mircea_popescu: but many of the folks in that wot ended up throwing derps into the woodchipper
mircea_popescu: trinque that's about where you'd expect it.
trinque: person was a fucking moron who worshipped big govt
mircea_popescu: decimation who, d'alembert ? lebreton ?
mircea_popescu: trinque bureaucracy has its uses. the problem is that the context it'd be useful in and the context in which it thrives are so wildly divorced.
mircea_popescu: sorta like how wolves would make excellent guard dogs, if only they stopped going and killing all the sheep and stayed at the fucking door instead.
asciilifeform: one might even say: bureaucracy was the first computer
decimation: voltaire, et al weren't exactly fans of the ancien regime
asciilifeform: computer of meat
trinque: I can see the point; a space is declared within which rules and processes accumulate
asciilifeform: peter 1 introduced bureaucracy in ru, and is worshipped for it
mircea_popescu: voltaire was a great fan, what are you talking about ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ayup/
trinque: but doing the accumulation as a good in itself seems to be where the insanity lies?
trinque: I recall the self-licking ice cream cone metaphor
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the computer of meat approach may well explain why it sucks so bad since 1900s. not a bad heuristic.
asciilifeform: it is how i always explain it to n00bs
asciilifeform: can make a computer out of near-anything
asciilifeform: but the only suitable material, in the old days, was meat
mircea_popescu: the other thing is : bureaucracy makes an excellent woman and an applaing man.
mircea_popescu: for as long as bureaucracy = the slaves of peter, or julius, or w/e, that may well work.
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trinque: so happens the fan of bureaucracy was female
mircea_popescu: once people try to be run by a bureaucracy however... god help'em.
mircea_popescu: even patently retarded stuff like "Smart contracts" seem preferable by that experience.
assbot: Hermes Bureaucrat song - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: til "transhumanism" has a logo
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.
mircea_popescu: i've never seen cancer this organised before.
asciilifeform: take it up with thiel
asciilifeform: who, as i understand, is paying
mircea_popescu: oh, is that it ?
mircea_popescu: "Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities."
asciilifeform: note that not even remotely true as printed on the crate
mircea_popescu: why so shy you know ? what's wrong with "Transhumanism is Thiel's stab at b-a. He thinks Omidyar's stab at qntra failed for reasons unrelated."
asciilifeform: -zero- actual work on lickliderian or engelbartian 'intelligence amplification' concept from these bozos
asciilifeform: much less anything actually hard like ai
mircea_popescu: "This article is about the futurist ideology and movement. For the critique of humanism, see posthumanism. For the pattern of seasonal migration, see transhumance. For persons experiencing incongruence between their actual gender and the gender assigned to them at birth, see trans man, trans woman, and transgender." << best part imo.
asciilifeform: no mention of trans fats?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works. "nobody's using bitcoin, nobody could have foreseen their using a plane as a rocket and nobody's doing anything better nor anything better could exist than ... you know, raising awareness"
asciilifeform: or transesterification ?
mircea_popescu: it's a thing, all this.
mircea_popescu: "The most common thesis put forward is that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label posthuman."
mircea_popescu: check it out lmao, an international cultural and intellectual "movement" that aspires to one day... label soemthing!
asciilifeform: 'able' because cthulhu will wish it ?
mircea_popescu: no but it's splendid. so they aspire to... names!
mircea_popescu: maybe humanity could go to transyale and get a transphd ?
trinque: someday we will be caught up in the heavens with white robes, and our bodies will be purified
trinque: there's gotta be a damn circuit for this shit in the head
asciilifeform: trinque: they have a literal version of this!
asciilifeform: 'uploading'
mircea_popescu: "This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990 and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement."
trinque: asciilifeform: lol oh I know
trinque: it is techno-christianity
mircea_popescu: basically this is scientology bahai ? do they speak esperanto ?
asciilifeform: trinque: it was slightly more interesting before was obvious sc4mz0r1ng
mircea_popescu: "Influenced by seminal works of science fiction, the transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives." aaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: dude omfg... this is a parody is it ?
asciilifeform: when tech was actually kinda moving, '70s-80s, and a number of things looked quasi-plausible with one eye closed
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is turning into tvtropes.
trinque: asciilifeform: yudkowski even invented the beast or satan or w/e, that AI that resolves to abuse your eternal soul forever if you oppose it
asciilifeform: trinque: aha
trinque: hm might not have been him, but I read he fears it
asciilifeform: no it was him
mircea_popescu: how do you abuse the eternal soul ?
mircea_popescu: make it read bad fanfic about "bullies" ?
trinque: pls don't trigger me
asciilifeform: he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation
trinque: triggered for all time!
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is max moore is what i wanna know
mircea_popescu: "Max More (born Max T. O'Connor, January 1964) is a philosopher and futurist who writes, speaks, and consults on advanced decision-making about emerging technologies."
asciilifeform: !s jaron lanier
assbot: 6 results for 'jaron lanier' :
asciilifeform: !s digirati
assbot: 0 results for 'digirati' :
asciilifeform: ^ them.
decimation: we discussed lanier earlier
asciilifeform: that entire social set.
mircea_popescu: so like... being a playboy model without the tits ?
asciilifeform: 'public intellectuals'
mircea_popescu: not quite.
asciilifeform: as seen elsewhere on the planet. cocksucking sycophants of the most degenerate imaginable kind
mircea_popescu: public intellectuals are actually educated people.
mircea_popescu: how about "marketeers without a product" ?
asciilifeform: using the phrase in the derisive chinese sense
decimation: their produt is 'pay attention to meee'
assbot: ClubOrlov: The Rage of the Cultural Elites ... ( )
mircea_popescu: Founder of the Extropy Institute, Max More has written many articles espousing the philosophy of transhumanism and the transhumanist philosophy of extropy,[6] most importantly his Principles of Extropy (currently version 3.11)
mircea_popescu: ok, this im reading then
mircea_popescu: "Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to entropy. As entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."
mircea_popescu: holy shit. enthalpy never happened ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the actual founding document of mr y's garbage is actually this:
assbot: Vernor Vinge on the Singularity ... ( )
mircea_popescu: god im sick of fucktarded usians giving their name to random items.
mircea_popescu: "and this tree i call jorje".
asciilifeform has an ancient copy of this, printed on matrix printer, yellowed with ages
mircea_popescu: "Extropy also attempts to describe the nature of the order, so a crystal , although highly ordered would have low extropy, but an organism or machine would have high extropy because of the informational structure contained within it. "
mircea_popescu: where's my red F
asciilifeform: vinge was (is?) a maths prof who went off the reservation and turned into a 3rd rate sf writer
assbot: Object not found! ... ( )
mircea_popescu: check out the complexity. fucking fucktards already.
asciilifeform: !s vinge
assbot: 3 results for 'vinge' :
asciilifeform: possibly '3rd rate' is uncharitable. but he is quite unreadable today
decimation: of course all of them would dismiss the YHWH worshipping Jews and Christians as credulous simpletons
decimation: but fear the great AI demon!
mircea_popescu: Date: Thu, March 19, 2015 11:21 pm
mircea_popescu: To:
mircea_popescu: think you are stupid</a>.
mircea_popescu: Carry on.
asciilifeform: decimation: never mind that not one could describe the first thing about building a computer which does not barf regularly
decimation: asciilifeform: hey, they have a research program
mircea_popescu: In the mid-1970s F.M. Esfandiary legally[5] changed his name to FM-2030 for two main reasons. Firstly, to reflect the hope and belief that he would live to celebrate his 100th birthday in 2030
mircea_popescu: died in 2000.
mircea_popescu: must suck to be these people.
asciilifeform: they have... phaith!
mircea_popescu: The concept of the technological singularity, or the ultra-rapid advent of superhuman intelligence, was first proposed by the British cryptologist I. J. Good in 1965: "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever."
asciilifeform: betcha he croaked convinced to the hilt he'd be ancestor-simmed.
mircea_popescu: check it out...
mircea_popescu: i love these scientists that don't even bother putting magic numbers in the code anymore.
mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform have we far surpassed yet or not ?
mircea_popescu: << "Cover of the first issue of h+ Magazine, a web-based quarterly publication that focuses on transhumanism."
mircea_popescu: apaprently the future is with bad lipstick and weirdo muslim headwear.
asciilifeform: the vinge essay is pertinent to the 'phoom' (actual name, iirc, for the apocalypse mechanism mr y believes in)
mircea_popescu: ;;google Natasha Vita-More nude
gribble: Natasha Vita-More on Whole Body Prosthetic - YouTube: <>; Bone Density on Vimeo: <>; Natasha Vita-More on Vimeo: <>
asciilifeform: 'phoom' is, in his cosmology, the conflagration resulting from a 'non-friendly' (read: not designed under mr y's tutelage) thinking machine which sets to work improving and crafting copies of self
asciilifeform: out of the remaining universe (how? ask him, not me)
asciilifeform: this is also called 'paperclipping'
mircea_popescu: wikipedia goes through an entire bio article without resolving her relationship to the max more dude.
bitstein: asciilifeform:he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation << Roko's Basilisk at least frightened people enough for him to delete everything about it
assbot: LessWrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
asciilifeform: from an illustration where a malevolent apparatus converts all of the matter in the universe into paperclips.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why exactly do we suspect very intelligent machines would reproduce ?
mircea_popescu: very intelligent humans don't seem to.
asciilifeform: in his doctrine, it wasn't specified as something they would necessarily do to reproduce in the animal sense, but as a side-effect of operation
mircea_popescu: right. just like people.
asciilifeform: sorta like fire doesn't distinguish between 'designated' fuel and your house
mircea_popescu: but fire is not intelligent.
asciilifeform: basically he proposed that intelligence per se could behave like fire.
mircea_popescu: so his idea of superintelligence is superstupidity ?
mircea_popescu: way to let one's own wounded narcisism get hold of the whole cart.
mircea_popescu: seriously eliezer baby : first off we know you're stupid, and second off it really doesn't make much difference. okay ?
mircea_popescu: let it rest.
asciilifeform: specifically that any 'superintelligence' not crafted under his tutelage would inevitably turn into a world-burner of superstupid
decimation: mircea_popescu: the problem is that he's been 'endowed', which means his new career is to pump this stuff out
mircea_popescu: sorta like unbaptised kids ?
mircea_popescu: !up poli_
poli_: Hey
mircea_popescu: decimation hardly much of a problem neh ?
mircea_popescu: and who might you be poli_ ?
poli_: Is Milk here? I have a question regarding Bitbets.
decimation: well, insofar as it acts as a bezzlar sink, no
poli_: An enterprising bitcoin lover.
poli_: Referred to this overflowing channel via bitbet as well.
mircea_popescu: decimation some other guy got a job as area supervisor of kfc, you know ? nothing wrong with it.
mircea_popescu: poli_ so what's your question ?
poli_: I was curious as to what kind of political questions are allowed.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm half convinced that yudkowsky's job is to tie up the brain cpu cycles of folks who could amount to something
asciilifeform: into harmless masturbatorium
poli_: My own specialty is in politicaly analysis and I've been waiting for the chance to put my knowledge to good use.
trinque: asciilifeform: "the beautiful ones"
mircea_popescu: poli_ so go for it.
asciilifeform: his forum housed the largest collection of people who showed symptoms of having a brain which i ever encountered prior to #b-a
asciilifeform: at least, encountered in one place
poli_: As in ask the question here?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform interesting.
mircea_popescu: anyone willing to admit an ex lesswrong persona ?
poli_: Why not, sure.
danielpbarron: !s "ask to ask"
assbot: 6 results for '"ask to ask"' :
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: admit << me.
poli_: I know lesswrong all to well.
assbot: Overview for asciilifeform - Less Wrong ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got banned for spamming ?
asciilifeform: not quite
asciilifeform: just told that 'the likes of you ain't welcom'
mircea_popescu: "Roko's basilisk is a thought experiment that assumes that an otherwise benevolent future artificial intelligence (AI) would torture the simulated selves of the people who did not help bring about the AI's existence. [...] The concept was proposed in 2010 by contributor Roko in a discussion on LessWrong. Yudkowsky deleted the posts regarding it and banned further discussion of Roko's basilisk on LessWrong after it had
mircea_popescu: apparently caused several contributors who took it seriously considerable anguish."
poli_: But anyways, mine question. Would I be allowed to bet on the following question: President Poroshenko will cease to be president of the Ukraine within 4 months.
asciilifeform: but in all fairness i haven't pushed the knob on that account in years
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. why would anyone care about some simulation ?!
asciilifeform: no idea if still worx
mircea_popescu: poli_ yes.
poli_: Well the idea is that Roko's basilisk
mircea_popescu: afaik there's a bunch of these.
poli_: will motivate people into bringing it around
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why would anyone care about some simulation << in mr y's world, the simulated organism -is- you
poli_: thereby bringing the simulation into existence
poli_: So burn all the records so people dont think of it
assbot: BitBet - President Obama Impeached before 2015 :: 0.01 B (6%) on Yes, 0.15 B (94%) on No | closed 4 months 2 weeks ago ... ( )
poli_: Sweet, and thanks for the answer on the question.
assbot: BitBet - Venezuelan President to step down :: 0.34 B (17%) on Yes, 1.61 B (83%) on No | closed 11 months 1 week ago ... ( )
mircea_popescu: poli_ hit the search button, select politics and all bets, and see what the cat drags.
poli_: and I don't mean 'impeached', I mean 'cease beingr president', but whatever means fate happens to employ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you mean "is"
assbot: Google Discussiegroepen ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'is' (in their view) in the same way as the 'you' who goes to the toilet and then comes back 'is' you.
poli_: I figured you wouldn't be allowed to bet on overtly non-legal happenings. Thanks for the help Mircea
asciilifeform: bitstein: penny is inimitable and timeless
mircea_popescu: poli_ so do they keep attacking wikipedia to take it off ?
asciilifeform: bitstein: she was one of the more interesting folks i ever saw on the net. entirely vanished, long ago.
mircea_popescu: i don't get the argument tho, why is superai of the future influenced by ruminations of humans today
poli_: No idea. I stopped following Lesswrong a while back.
poli_: They got super spergy and fairly degen.
mircea_popescu: ;;ud dege
gribble: | Bre 2 : Alow him fam hes a top dege, chek his high bats. Bre 1 : LOL Example 2. Bre 1 : That dege gets ber rude fam, i dashd his book out da window. Bre 2 : LOL  ...
mircea_popescu: ;;ud degen
gribble: | A degen is one step above the dero or derelict in the scale of madness. Scozz Walker ... Gamblers consider other gamblers degens, but not themselves usually.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the idea is that the mega-ai appears and has, somehow (forget physics for a moment) a total record of all things
bitstein: asciilifeform: is there an archive somewhere of her writing?
poli_: Plus, I didn't think the Roko's Basilisk scenario was all that likely.
poli_: personal opinion there
asciilifeform: bitstein: google groups has most of it, but no longer searchable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then it's done, no ?
asciilifeform: bitstein: my hard disk has the 2nd largest, i suspect.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha done
asciilifeform: but thinking about it was giving some of mr y's gurlz nightmares
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if i make two simulations of the same one slavegirl and order them both to fight to the death ?
asciilifeform: and so he declared jihad
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't tried this
mircea_popescu: (while the original's watching, of course)
asciilifeform: so cannot rightfully apprehend what happens
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78100 @ 0.00029644 = 23.152 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: who is stronger, the elephant or the whale.
mircea_popescu: i suppose i got to ask lesswrong, they seem to know all sortsa shit about how shit that doesn't exist works.
asciilifeform: i did say to mr y 'inventing circuit breaker before discovering electric current'
asciilifeform: there was no interesting reply.
poli_: indeed Mircea.
poli_: indeed.
asciilifeform: thing is, he wasn't always a charlatan
asciilifeform: was once an enthusiastic self-taught kid
asciilifeform: wrote to him in the '90s while also a kid
decimation: I take all of the above writing as evidence that the authors in question have never tried to create a real simulation on an actual computer
asciilifeform: my first pgp-gram actually.
mircea_popescu: all sorts of fun could be had here. what if i get a simulation of me to impregnate the actual girl, and then i impregnate the simulation of her.
asciilifeform: he wrote back, seemed like a c00l d00d
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform self-teaching IS quite like fire.
mircea_popescu: i've known many of these, they look like radiation. sooner or later start moving toward wall.
asciilifeform: at the time he actually was trying to scarf up all there was written re: ai, hoping to build something new
asciilifeform: the 'flip' happened, iirc, some time in the early 2000s when his brother died of mysterious death
asciilifeform: mr y had a breakdown of sort
mircea_popescu: was he bullied ?
asciilifeform: fuck if i know
mircea_popescu: would explain a lot of bad fiction i read in sumary.
asciilifeform: he was drummed out of school as a youth
asciilifeform: for what, i do not know
mircea_popescu: can't figure out how to thank that physics dude that read what seems like > 500 pages of shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meant the bro.
assbot: Richard Kulisz: yudkowsky ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ also old net crackpot
bitstein: asciilifeform: ah, okay. i'll peruse that.
asciilifeform does not endorse mr k wholesale
asciilifeform: but stimulating reading
mircea_popescu: decimation i have the same impression.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00030268 = 1.6042 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: fucking blogspot.
mircea_popescu: "What is rationality? It's the ability to make life plans which reach your goals."
mircea_popescu: uh. i don't think so.
mircea_popescu: rationality is a purely linguistic property, it has exactly nothing to do with action.
mircea_popescu: rationality is, basically, the ability to distinguish homomorphisms from homologies.
mircea_popescu: (same structure vs same components)
asciilifeform: i meant the bro << ah i've no idea. found dead in a dark alley, iirc, but nothing publicly out afaik beyond that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00029644 = 1.4081 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: homomorphisms from homologies << doug hofstadter spent a good chunk of his life bashing head against this
mircea_popescu: farg is probably one of the better approaches to the ai problem, at any rate.
poli_: Thanks again for the help Mircea, talk to yall later
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this discussion inspires me to the following ai standard : a computer that can distinguish code from data is rational.
brendafdez: ben_vulpes pls check message :P
mircea_popescu: "It annoys me that idiots continue to use "oh wow, that's so amazing" as the measure of creative genius. Or even worse, that they rely on society's direction to determine who is a creative genius and who isn't. First of all, creative geniuses are RESPECTED and LOOKED UP TO by society. And any position that is looked up to will be coveted by Narcissists who are driven by Glory, such as Richard Feynman who all his life w
mircea_popescu: as driven to be a jerkass asshole and a thief."
mircea_popescu: somebody's got some issues o.O
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