Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-06-12 | 2017-06-14 →
BingoBoingo: !!up Guest497
deedbot: Guest497 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of html : im currently very impressed with
mircea_popescu: buncha russians made a flawless browser game, it's something else.
diana_coman: that dragoneternity game actually looks good
mircea_popescu: considering the terror that working with browsers is in the first place, dudes are wizards.
diana_coman: still: "latest Flash Player version is required for the client to function properly"
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2748.08, vol: 32981.09395675 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2690.001, vol: 14567.0408 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2666.6, vol: 48856.8198473 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2865.6474, vol: 25657.15940000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2743.689, vol: 10699.8473025 | Volume-weighted last average: 2734.08931823
shinohai: Nah, funds are safe there. They store funds in a multi-signature cold storage with a bank level security grade!
sina: bank level is the best security grade
shinohai: This is obviously a step above - I'm willing to bet all passwords are secured with military grade encryption too, since they are so professional.
mircea_popescu: shinohai mindboggling
shinohai: ikr? I saw that item yesterday but didn't seem Qntrable to me as the "scam" appeared to be related to the Ethereum network self-DDoS.
mircea_popescu: most wtf part is the notion those dorks actually had k's in btc
mircea_popescu can't quite bring self to believe.
shinohai: Well, if you don't have the private keys to an address to prove ownership, you really don't have anything at all, no matter how many imaginary numbers you are told you hold on a site.
shinohai thinks the numbers are oft exaggerated on reddit to make the wheel squeakier .....
mircea_popescu: typical half ounce a week "Drug dealer" gets robbed, thieves make away with 17k in cash and some cheap fake jewelry. "MULLIONS MISSING!!!"
mircea_popescu: exactly how "drug busts" work, come to think of it.
mircea_popescu: in case anyone still wanted indicia as to where the fish rotten from. it was the fucking "law enforcement".
shinohai: Case in point: - Where fentanyl you can buy all day in an DN market for $2-3 gram is suddenly worth $10k per
shinohai: feeb maths
mircea_popescu: a yeah, don't even remind me of the """major player""" silk road, that somehow was a big deal in spite of not being able to place one pound over xmas-new year's. TWO WEEKS!
mircea_popescu: you can throw a rock in a la hotel and hit a waitress that's more of an "international drug market"
mircea_popescu: if i were a judge i'd throw the book at this so-called "government" so help me. lie to me do one month in the can, no questions asked. so if it takes fifty da's it'll take fifty da's.
mircea_popescu: given the current state of the rot i'd prolly convict 2/3 "law enforcement" 1/3 private citizens.
shinohai: mircea_popescu will make America great again
mircea_popescu: no he won't.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather teach sheep torah.
shinohai found the commenter's name, SAM, to be suspect:
mircea_popescu: ya think ?
mod6: mornin'
shinohai: Mornin mod6 ... anything cool brewing in your lab?
mod6: Mornin' shinohai
mod6: peted sent his getpeerinfo vpatch to the ML. so that's out there.
mod6: and I started working on ticket #36 for trb, possible move of the deps folder for trb
mod6: i got it to work lastnight, but im not satisfied with it yet.
shinohai: That reminds me ....
shinohai: !~later tell pete_dushenski Tested your patch, built fine, running on the dev box as I write this.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mod6: cool, thanks for the testing shinohai
shinohai: np, glad to help and love to see trb progressing and more peeps contributing.
mod6: indeed!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very funny that jew thing you dug out. literally, the ENTIRE argument is "hey, let us scam you, because that's what goverments do, and if the goyim see us scamming you they'll believe w r government".
mircea_popescu: how statists actually manage to live in their mental latrine is anyone's guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, is why i posted it
mircea_popescu: entertainment value well worth teh read.
asciilifeform: the altalena thing still , i'm told, smoulders, there are folx who have not forgotten the replacement of terrorist-republic-israel with usg-alt-israel
asciilifeform: ( hey adlai !! whaddayathink )
mircea_popescu: da fuck is some shithead 20something going to think.
asciilifeform: dunno, but he's marched under the colours, and asciilifeform has not, so automatically 'gotta ask'
mircea_popescu: nonsense.
mircea_popescu: might as well ask the kfc colonel his professional opinion re fort sumter.
shinohai: <<< By Gavin logic, moar ETH nodes = good while less BTC nodes = A OK
mircea_popescu: he's in feeder phase.
mircea_popescu: the hanno boecks always work in the same cycle. feeder phase where they "seem reasonable" and chumpatron phase where they shed the half-hour-horizon idiots who bought it.
mircea_popescu: the ur-model of this is "modern" ourdemocracy currency. while they can falsify it, YOU can't. this means they can prop its value up for as long as it takes for idiot-you to buy into the theory that "usd is actually valuable", after which they can turn on the printing.
mircea_popescu: which is why "eth has market value". the entire market value of ethereum (all chains) is under a grand. but the lizards will keep buying it, for all the fiddy bux a week that costs, to prop up the pretense. if it catches, they got "millionz" and if not they're out five coffees for a dozen losers who were getting that coffee off social security anyway.
mircea_popescu: and this model ENTIRELY explains all of the "luminaries". werner koch worked the feeder-chumper cycle. stallman worked the feeder-chumper cycle. curtis yarvin worked the etcetera.
asciilifeform: where's the cut between 'worked cycle' and 'turned traitor' ?
asciilifeform: 'worked' seems to imply cynical fraud from t=0
mircea_popescu: cycle, definitionally, is multiple iterations.
mircea_popescu: gavin worked btc, got kicked out, is now working eth, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: the fiat word is "serial entrepreneur" or whatever.
asciilifeform: rms afaik is not a serial anything, had exactly 1 thing
mircea_popescu: and that was emacs ?
mircea_popescu: 2 things.
asciilifeform: ( emacs pre-dates rms )
mircea_popescu: but he worked the cycle on emacs first.
mircea_popescu: then he worked it on software, and THEN he worked it on hardware.
mircea_popescu still can't forget the "i have a laptop that doesn't exist" bs.
mircea_popescu: "so where is it" "they stole it"
asciilifeform: not sure if that one can be pinned on rms per se -- he was already in his ambulatory mushroom phase at that point
mircea_popescu: get some crayons and color me shades of impressed.
shinohai: In other democracy news:
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other excavations, >> 'Het ontwerp is volledig open source, het geleverde product is te verifiëren zodat je kunt zien dat er niets is toegevoegd of weggelaten, de randomization is wiskundig verifieerbaar. Er zijn drivers voor eigenlijk alle gangbare operating systems, zelfs voor OpenBSD, en dat voor een prijs van USD 40. Die onderbouwing zie ik n
asciilifeform: iet bij nosuchlabs. En nee, er is totaal geen sprake van meer spreekwoordelijk alufolie, integendeel. Geen drivers, aansluiting via een niet meer aanwezig medium (seriele poort), beperkte hoeveelheid random data en ga zo maar door.'
asciilifeform: ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy'
mircea_popescu: isn't "onerng" the thing captain bullshit was pushing in that dumb chan ?
asciilifeform: one of'em yes
mircea_popescu: how did that quote abnout a confederacy of dounces go
asciilifeform: linked mainly for the 'drivers' lul
mircea_popescu: "you can always recognize a fuckgoats by that sure sign, that all the dounces in the county are arrayed in a confederacy against it."
asciilifeform: aah yes.
mircea_popescu: and here i sat and thought naively that open source is all about "hey, i perceive the need for these so called drivers, item dun has them, I WILL MAKE MYSELF"
asciilifeform: gotta luvvv all the nitwits who think that pc has any business being able to talk TO an rng box
mircea_popescu: isn't THAT what the douche was supposed to publish on his stupid blog ?
asciilifeform: ( which is what connecting via non-unidirectional interface entails )
mircea_popescu: but no, instead every two bit twentysomething shithead importantly sits on an imagined throne and JUDGES THE WORLD!!11
mircea_popescu: rather than try and fix it, and in the process learn a thing or two about just how utterly fucktarded they are.
mircea_popescu: go, write fg drivers. what
mircea_popescu: thje everloving fuck will they do ?
asciilifeform: better still, to read the docs and think for 30sec and realize that THING USES NO DRIVER
mircea_popescu: no but all the peripheral boxes he ever saw had the bullet point there.
mircea_popescu: anywya, maybe we can talk diana_coman into borrowing us a manager class.
mircea_popescu: better than driver.
mircea_popescu: which one
asciilifeform: managerclass
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea.
asciilifeform: aaah a burbulator
mircea_popescu: but everything has a bunch of them so
a111: Logged on 2016-06-19 05:35 asciilifeform: the next morning, commander tours the base, says to sergeant: 'everything seems ok, but what is this nonsense, they showed me the scrapyard and your men threw out a perfectly fine burbulator!!!'
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> might as well ask the kfc colonel his professional opinion re fort sumter. << "Lincoln was a war criminal" is the response I got
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc we had a thread even here where somebody whined that FG doesn't work as a 'totem' where you 'plug in and forget and it just becomes your /dev/random' and that it has to be actively ~used~
mircea_popescu: it's still not clear to me dumping it into the pool is a bad move.
mircea_popescu: seeing how the alternative is koch-hashes.
asciilifeform: it isn't that it is necessarily bad move
mircea_popescu: i suppose "driver" in context might mean a kernel patch to feed /random from fg
asciilifeform: but that the ~correct~ move is proggy that takes a /dev/foo1,/dev/foo2... as command line params and eats rng from ~there~
mircea_popescu: yes but they already got their userland, and it's a) shit and b) unrecompilable.
asciilifeform: 'need to know principle', if you will -- kernel has no business having centralized 'and these here are rngs'
asciilifeform: not to mention a proggy that eats rng oughta be periodically tested using ~known~ bits
asciilifeform: to see if the expected output results
asciilifeform: ( known-and-previously-untried )
mircea_popescu: yes. the idea being that your methiod while correct requires fixing all the shit programs. which ain't gonan happen. nor can it.
mircea_popescu: whereas just feeding it into the kernel pool might help to some degree and is actually feasible.
asciilifeform: cat /dev/yourfg > /dev/random &
mircea_popescu: basically it's the eternal culture shock. "i protest that this tmsr item is ideologically incompatible with the shitempire i inhabit" "blow it out your ass" "TERRORISM!"
asciilifeform: ( incidentally astute students of FUCKGOATSology will notice that the principle is applied INSIDE the device as well - FG has nfi what is plugged into rng jacks, actual analogue rng boards or tester jig )
asciilifeform: relatedly, at one point i considered a FG add-on that'd turn it into a ps/2 'keyboard' eternally pissing out, e.g., d0bc05f466024f14... which, e.g., xxd will happily eat & turn into binariola
shinohai: Ledger branching out to pgptronics:
asciilifeform: keyboardization gives even greater 'nonspecificity of diddling', at the cost of 'can't have it plugged in 24/7, must use in bursts' ( as most os don't work with >1 kbd correctly )
asciilifeform: shinohai: add to the loooong list of 'tardanos'
shinohai: Quite
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the koch episode was actually illustrative of the futility of 'just fix /dev/random'. it'd have done ~zero~ against the koch rng poisoning thing.
asciilifeform: if you can't recompile ( or better still, use sane proggy ) you're fucked, there is no pill.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the "" maggots say what they say.
mircea_popescu: "use these things thatr won't do anything"
mircea_popescu: "they're...easier!"
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy' << limited entropy?! herp.
mod6: these cows just don't care they they have an NSA fist in their asses. never did, never will.
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1568...0739 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( BG 13)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1792...6587 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( BG 13)
mod6: "m00" "oh your butt hurts" "m00!" "maybe get that fist out of your ass..." "n000!"
asciilifeform: mod6: elementarily, 'limited entropy', 'respectable mainstream' turd can put out whatever it wants, GB/s, of prng
asciilifeform: 'whitening'
asciilifeform: ( why to bother with hardware, if resorting to prng , remains a mystery )
mod6: m0001
asciilifeform: whereas harvesting actual entropy is painful, esp. if you want an engineering margin ( e.g. 2x in FG )
asciilifeform: 2x temporal, that is. on top of 4x spatial.
asciilifeform: ( each analogue board has 2 independent subunits, see schematic )
asciilifeform: mod6: you will notice that no fg hits >8kB/s at room temp, while the theoretical max is 14.4kB
mod6: sure.
asciilifeform: there simply ain't moar to be had ( safely, that is -- you can use a faster-slewing op amp, in this collection scheme, but you will be harvesting power supply artifacts, 'voice of america', switching transients.. )
asciilifeform: all 'electric' schemes for trng have the basic problem of 'breathing own fumes'.
asciilifeform: von neumann's debias algo, and xor fold, are the two legit methods of dealing with this, but they have considerable cost ( each application of either , burns away 50% of incoming bits )
mod6: then that's what it is.
mod6: fuck 'em
asciilifeform: ( part of the appeal of 'atomic' trng is that the 'fumes' concern evaporates. )
asciilifeform: !$ssh
scriba: ssh banner of as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1
mod6: one of these times you're gonna pop it
asciilifeform: which it
mod6: what does that ssh thing do?
asciilifeform: mod6: spits out the banner that Framedragger forgot to put in the original conversions
mod6: oh
mod6: ok
mircea_popescu: so how's tricks in mod6 castle
mod6: sweet
mircea_popescu: glad to hear
mod6: gathering some things up in eulora.
mod6: having fun with that.
mircea_popescu: ah i saw lel. how long has it been for you, 2 years now ?
mod6: na, not quite that long. it ~has~ been at least since xmas or so since I popped in last tho.
mod6: this whole year has been nuts. i feel like im constantly behind. all that stuff with my mom just sucked up so much time.
mircea_popescu: yeah can rtake it out of one
mod6: ya for sure
jurov: it needs "yes i am sure" ioctl
mircea_popescu: ah that's right isn't it
asciilifeform: motherfucking kochs.
mircea_popescu: it's !??!?!?!
BingoBoingo: FUCK, no way to fix in lawg
mircea_popescu: you gotta sit and meditate, it's getting ridoinculous
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2700.35, vol: 17108.73242076 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2663.11, vol: 6150.18051 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2694.2, vol: 24703.98366288 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2827.998971, vol: 10709.68020000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2704.2, vol: 7649.42853527 | Volume-weighted last average: 2715.66268137
asciilifeform: in other 3-years-and-continuing lulz, >> '...I've been trying to build these style tools for around 10 years, on and off, and they have never built correctly for these targets and any attempt to put in a bug report about it is a waste of time as someone comes along states it works and closes it, even though it doesn't.'
mircea_popescu: open sores.
asciilifeform: it will have to be confiscated from the monkeys, like trb was.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform has stabbed on and off at the problem, for a very long time.
mircea_popescu: by now, pretty much foregone conclusion. if we need it, they can't have it.
asciilifeform: end result is to be a vaguely msdos-like thing that understands how to configure x64 page table, put/get blocks of disk, and speak over rs232 port. and on top of this, a self-building gnat.
asciilifeform: but this is yet far.
mircea_popescu: in general, seems dos model is the winner. i dunno wtf unix is even supposed to be, honestly.
asciilifeform: single-tasking, grim wartime thing.
mircea_popescu: on preponderence of evidence seems rather 1950s equivalent of historical "craftsman secrets" bs.
asciilifeform: nothing like what asciilifeform wanted, decade ago, to spend his life making.
mircea_popescu: ie, low level labour strife, "how to make capitalist incapable of using his own capital goods without feeding us"
asciilifeform: but it will have to be made.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how did yo9u want to spend life decade ago ?
mircea_popescu: ah. yea.
mircea_popescu: there's no absolute reason most of the dos thing can;t actually be lisp
asciilifeform: inadequate iron.
mircea_popescu: yes, but so far i am rather impressed with the demonstrated interop.
asciilifeform: which interop
mircea_popescu: say between whatever phf runs log on and the log itself ; or whatever ben_vulpes runs the bot on and so forth
mircea_popescu: they didn't turn into very sad shriveled raisins of pain for trying.
asciilifeform: problem is that a language with nonhardrealtime gc is unsuitable for cryptography.
asciilifeform: 0 way to guarantee constant-time-anything
asciilifeform: or to police branch-on-secrets
mircea_popescu: this is shapinbg up to be the achile's heel for lisp huh
asciilifeform: on c-machine -- yes.
asciilifeform: sorta why asciilifeform has written 0 lisp for 3+ yrs
asciilifeform: well, ~0
asciilifeform: at any rate at this point imho it is obvious that the confiscation of computing from the enemy cannot proceed on linux.
mircea_popescu: i am persuaded.
asciilifeform: or bsd.
mircea_popescu: unixanything.
mircea_popescu: the reasons are plurious, there's not jhust this line
mircea_popescu: there's also the "bunch of retards who think themselves competent and will wish to '''help'''" as per older threads re flies.
mircea_popescu: and others.
asciilifeform: the reasons, at this point, are not a mega-secret to anyone here.
asciilifeform: for the 'helpers' -- the sharp end of a trench shovel.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> unixanything. << ditto
asciilifeform: re os : i've observed before , that the only peripheral that unconditionally ~must~ work, is rs232 port.
asciilifeform: everything else, even disk, is optional frill.
mircea_popescu: the model is fundamentally broken. you do not actually want a multi-user machine, ever, period.
mod6: yeah. back to dos-like sys
asciilifeform: it is possible to accomplish useful work on a box where only cpu, memory, and serial ports, work.
mircea_popescu: it's a stupid thing, like a multi-driver-wheel bus.
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: "instead of making ten cars we made this bus with ten driver seats. talk it out among yourselves. there's bulletproof glass in some parts."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd even not be wholly ludicrous to have 1 doslike thing per cpu core, and a standardized means whereby master (of which there is to be ONE) can drive the slaves
asciilifeform: but beyond this - nothing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in an ideal world we just hijack intel management engine to do that job.
asciilifeform: no need for any such thing, conventional pc arch is quite enough.
mircea_popescu: no need maybe, but it's what you get lel
asciilifeform: ( to carry on N independent instruction streams )
asciilifeform: the other bit, is that we are picturing a box without a nic. ( it may come equipped with one, but it dun get plugged in )
mircea_popescu: no, no, nick over port!
asciilifeform: strictly serial. if you want to speak via a nic, that goes on 2nd box
mircea_popescu: the chineze had it.
asciilifeform: the 'nic can dma, haha' thing evaporates.
asciilifeform: nic sits on 2nd box, and if it gets 'magic packet', the most that enemy gains is the contents of the buffer kept there.
asciilifeform: at any rate this is a pretty obvious scheme.
asciilifeform: merely cumbersome. but if contemplating a return to 'msdos with bigger addr space', it is also fitting to discuss other cumbersomes.
asciilifeform: ( and any such return entails a 'from whence the drivers', for which the magic pill is... we haven't any. rs232, motherfuckers. )
mircea_popescu: the experience with making / using the fg turns out most useful, really.
mircea_popescu: both in terms of exposing the idiocy of the enemy in very specific terms, and in terms of providing solutions to teh problems.
mircea_popescu: whaack stop fucking around join/parting and nicking already.
asciilifeform: mauser first, questions later!111
mircea_popescu: fucking lazy to op self.
asciilifeform: incidentally, a dick^H^Hsk-less pc makes for another interesting feature, a known-starting-state.
asciilifeform: ( i had a pogo going like this for a while )
asciilifeform: it asks 'gimme a running state plox' via the talking port on warmup. and then runs.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. disk can be a tele-operated item in exactly same way as nic. )
asciilifeform: >> << from the archives of asciilifeform : simple c example of The Only Driver
asciilifeform: ( worx on all known pc chipsets, incl. mircea_popescu's 286. )
asciilifeform: tested on, e.g., 'pcengines apu1'
asciilifeform: a number of other opterons also.
asciilifeform: ancient intel boxes from scrapyard.
asciilifeform: and many, many boat anchors.
asciilifeform: ^ n00bs : don't try to build an' run on a unix, it won't wurk.
ben_vulpes: this promises to be fun
ben_vulpes: but proposed is not to exhume dos but run an ada os thinger?
mircea_popescu: historical dos is only a very general design model
mircea_popescu: to illustrate teh point
mircea_popescu is not very keen for eg on "tsr" insta-kerne-patch-from-userland bs
asciilifeform: rom kernel.
asciilifeform: ( nao if only one could actually execute anything at all from rom on modern x86 !! )
asciilifeform: but can still write ~as if for~ rom.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !!up phillipsjk
deedbot: phillipsjk voiced for 30 minutes.
phillipsjk: changed channels, I see.
mircea_popescu: !!key phillipsjk
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk who might you be then ?
phillipsjk: I am the one with the horrible resume.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha o really ?
phillipsjk: maybe I can find it in the logs...
mircea_popescu: use the search!
mircea_popescu: !#s phillipsjk
a111: 149 results for "phillipsjk",
a111: Logged on 2015-02-06 00:00 mircea_popescu: "this is, without a doubt, the worst resume i have ever seen."
mircea_popescu: lol. so did you fix it ?
phillipsjk: Thought you might be interested to know that transaction fees are finally having an effect.
phillipsjk: mircea_popescu, not yet.
mircea_popescu: well there's time.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk oh they are ? thanks for letting me know!1
mircea_popescu: at first, when i received your letter, i at once said : surely, transaction fees are having an effect.
mircea_popescu: but then, like a doubt occured to me. what if transaction fees aren't having an effect after all ?
phillipsjk: On june 8th, Kraken sent out an e-mail saying that Bitcoin withdrawal fees would rise to 0.0025 XBT
mircea_popescu: but then at once i told myself -- no, transaction fees are definitely having an effect!
phillipsjk: Then on june 10th, they sent a follow-up email, saying in part:
phillipsjk: "Many clients have said they prefer a lower bitcoin withdrawal fee even if it means slower transactions. Accordingly, we are now sending withdrawals together in batches to reduce cost. This allows us to reduce the bitcoin withdrawal fee to: 0.001 XBT"
mircea_popescu: "the price of two strings tied to one can goes up to bla bla" ?
mircea_popescu: ah i see.
mircea_popescu: this makes exactly absolutely no sense whatsoever. fees are per byte.
phillipsjk: Presumably transactions with many outputs are more efficient than dual input/output transactions. They may be able to eliminate an arbitrary number of round trips through their hot wallet as well.
mircea_popescu: yeah, from 25 to 1, ie 95%
mircea_popescu: i've been sitting here trying to recall which irrelevant scam "exchange" kraken is, can't really come up with much. was in the one the tradehills scammers made in their doomed but cheeky attempt to "come back" the usual coupla years later ? or was the one named after a pirate-era mpoe-pr post ?
mircea_popescu: history will never know. but anyway.
phillipsjk: I found the concept of V interesting. I worry it may have hidden fragility though. I may port it to BSD when I have time.
phillipsjk: mircea_popescu, they bought up CAvirtex, that is why I am getting e-mail.
mircea_popescu: well, just as soon as you can be specific re that fragility, i'm, all ears.
phillipsjk: You model assumes that people are able to review the code. It may not scale to large code-bases.
mircea_popescu: what large code bases ?
phillipsjk: That may be an orthogonal problem though.
phillipsjk: Your solution in the logs is to replace unix with DOS to avoid that problem.
mircea_popescu: moreover, it'd seem on the first pass that the "possible hidden fragility" of disallowing "large codebases" aka piles of crap nobody's ever read is preferable to the VERY LOUDLY OBVIOUS vulnerability of running black boxes
mircea_popescu: today's dos discussion is entirely unrelated to this.
phillipsjk: I believe code should be proven correct, so that abstraction leakage does not bite you in the ass.
mircea_popescu: o ? and how do you prove large code bases correct ?
phillipsjk: You prove the interface matches the documentation. repeat all the way up the stack.
mircea_popescu: please tell me this "proven correct" isn't just anotgher idle handwave, "let that wizard over there do it"
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk do you have handy a graph depicting the relation between x and e^x ?
mircea_popescu: if people can't review the code nobody's proving anything. ever.
phillipsjk: That is why I said the concern may be orthogonal. Lost keys are a concern.
asciilifeform: lost key ~= death
mircea_popescu: what lost keys ?
asciilifeform: and is as it should be.
asciilifeform: !!up phillipsjk
deedbot: phillipsjk voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aww i was gonna check this lost key thing
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust deedbot phillipsjk
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 2 connections.
mircea_popescu: 0 by 2 eh ?
mircea_popescu: !#s "rate phillipsjk"
mircea_popescu: mmm am i doing this baxwards ?
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust phillipsjk deedbot
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
phillipsjk: I think it would be useful to be be able to resign patches after running a computer-assisted proof checker )or just test cases) against them.
mircea_popescu: trinque can you explain wtf this is ?
a111: Logged on 2015-02-05 07:37 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.phillipsjk.-1:162b44943bc0180c83a6648fa5aaaa3cbbeb78a4506a70bcbddccf8766452878
asciilifeform: what it is, is the bug where nonpublic ~rates are permitted.
phillipsjk: However that may be out-of-scope for what V is supposed to do.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk oh, the "wizard does it" thing emerges yes ? tell you what, loading up a label maker you put a "computer" label on with "correctes check passed" labes does nothing useful for everyone.
mircea_popescu: stop "thinking" like that, it's not thought and it's not socially acceptable in adult males, either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it should still see mine.
mircea_popescu: or wtf. /me goes to read.
mircea_popescu: oh oh oh i see, 1 from me -one from daniel ok, i got confused. sorry trinque nothing unusal here.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk what's keeping you from re-signing anyway ?
phillipsjk: wizard as in wise person yes. Last estimate I saw said about 160 people are do the work world-wide (mainly for the US military). (they want to know war-only weapon modes will actually work as intended)
mircea_popescu: no, "computer assisted proof checker" is jsut another way to say "i wave it before my cat and see if it mews".
asciilifeform: phillipsjk: i was one of these people, for a spell, hi.
phillipsjk: mircea_popescu, you have to re-review the code, do you not?
trinque: !!reputation phillipsjk
trinque: ^ handy
mircea_popescu: the "assisted" part simply signifies trhat the lazy operator intends to not do any work and still pretend like he has something to say.
asciilifeform: phillipsjk: i hate to disappoint but : it's astrology.
mircea_popescu: you have to READ the code. multiple times. multiple. many many times.
mircea_popescu: HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
asciilifeform: not to say that there isn't a handful of very narrowly useful 'proof' mechanisms -- some of them appear in, e.g., ada's Spark
asciilifeform: but they are not a replacement for Fits In Head
asciilifeform: and certainly not a mechanized path to 'spec guaranteed to fit the proggy'
trinque: one sec. phillipsjk wasn't your resume about washing dishes and something volunteer pirate ?
phillipsjk: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk so how has teh interval treated you ?
phillipsjk: well, I guess I am out for the night.
shinohai: Those dishes won't wash themselves.
asciilifeform: nooo, i wanna hear about how v is 'fragile'!!1
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron do you recall why you negrated the dood ?
phillipsjk: mircea_popescu, ran out of money for my Bitcoin node. doing back-taxes should help.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform give the man some toime, eh, he said might be, and so on.
asciilifeform: twist : phillipsjk is the illustrious xiah lee
asciilifeform: ( d00d was last seen working as dish washer )
mircea_popescu: on the internet no one knows you're a xiah lee!
asciilifeform: err, xah lee
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk i have nfi what that's supposed to mean, if you care. what back taxes and how does it help ?!
phillipsjk: I make little enough money that the government tops me up a bit if I actually file.
mircea_popescu: that... doesn't sound too happy.
phillipsjk: even with Bitcoin appreciation
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, bitcent > blowjob nao.
asciilifeform: what's an ansi std. blowjob equal to ?
asciilifeform: ( iso ? )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform back alley girl squatting ?
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> danielpbarron do you recall why you negrated the dood ? << no i do not
danielpbarron: !!v 1B5E2D36528BED0978D79E31C9C406CFC7677431A5B92E7BDD304915529A7907
deedbot: danielpbarron unrated phillipsjk.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "the price of two strings tied to one can goes up to bla bla" ? << Nah, this is rising cost of tin solder driving higher price of toucans
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i've been sitting here trying to recall which irrelevant scam "exchange" kraken is, can't really come up with much. was in the one the tradehills scammers made in their doomed but cheeky attempt to "come back" the usual coupla years later ? or was the one named after a pirate-era mpoe-pr post ? << The USG created "Goxcatcher" created mostly to have a place to receive the legal effigy of MtGox
BingoBoingo: <phillipsjk> I found the concept of V interesting. I worry it may have hidden fragility though. I may port it to BSD when I have time. << Already works on any OS with a runtime for a language V is implemented in. Can run on OS/2 Warp
asciilifeform: speaking of, lulzy how they 'freed' karpeles so that he can help 'establish precedent' re 'we owed btc but will repay in usd per ancient exchange rate'
mircea_popescu: hey, fatass did nothing wrong!
asciilifeform: 'only following orders'
mircea_popescu: he can gang together with shrem and come with some "proposal"
asciilifeform: already did, possibly. subj :
mircea_popescu: i can't be bothered.
mircea_popescu: whole menagerie of early losers isn't worth the kako it's printed on.
asciilifeform: '...bitcoin claims are pegged at an exchange rate of one bitcoin to $485.50, the price the day before Gox declared bankruptcy, by order of a Japanese court. ' didjaknow.
asciilifeform: 'It’s a far cry from the man who controlled the center of the bitcoin economy just four years ago. “I’m working on quite a few projects,” he says. “But hey, got to make a living.”' didjaalsoknow.
mircea_popescu: i had nfi japan abandoned they en
mircea_popescu: the yen*
mircea_popescu: controled my pubic hair jesus.
asciilifeform: jp enmouthed the cock long, long ago
asciilifeform: in '45.
mircea_popescu: where i come from it's not even legal for a court to make orders re foreign currencies.
mircea_popescu: but that technicality aside, you can fully expect a "court" of the fiat type to judge that "it's not fair" to have to repay THE THGING YOU STOLE. because "unjust enrichment" something something they're all stupid and ugly and their mothers should be ashamed of themselves.
BingoBoingo: ty shinohai, punched it up a little for historicity's sake
mircea_popescu: ahahaha coinbase srsly trying to pretend mp parity ? when did this happebn
asciilifeform: eh if mr plebe gets caught stealing a doorknob from usg post office, he's in for 10k 'worth' of it plus prison
deedbot: << Qntra - Coblee And Coinbase Quit Each Other
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's only injust enrichment if individual gets what he was promised. when government outright steals that's just "legitimacy".
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg
asciilifeform: it's what 'rule of law' gargle is made of.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> phillipsjk i have nfi what that's supposed to mean, if you care. what back taxes and how does it help ?! << Generally a perk of dishwashing is that doing one's taxes means the government pays dishwasher. Very import subsidy supporting the ApplebeesMcHoulihams chemical industry.
asciilifeform: 'when WE steal, it's Legitimate, and stfu terrorist'
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hey, fatass did nothing wrong! << FAT IS WRONG!
mircea_popescu: "rule of law" : if govt owes then ; if individual owes then he's a criminal for having had sometging in the first place!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no he stood up. fathealthy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaha, if plebe has >subsistence, he must have withheld Legitimate spoils from spoils-collector. iron logic.
asciilifeform: see also the rembrandt thread.
BingoBoingo: I haven't seen a single Karpicturales de-karpicting from head all the way to foot on floor without scaffolding to support weight
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, there isn't at the present time one single stupidity of the soviet republic that's not implemented by the anglotard empire. not ONE thing.
mircea_popescu: all the shit they were whining about and importantly burbling, human rights, property rights, a future, bla bla bla, ALL OF IT.
asciilifeform: aaactually the seeds of all of this, were not merely planted but sprouted when lenin was not yet even born
mircea_popescu: yes but as late as the 80s they were pretending they know better.
mircea_popescu: the mothers of the current crop of useless cunts with delusions of journalism were just as their daughters, importantly neighing about "obviously" and "everyone knows" bullshit they couldn't spell.
asciilifeform: tell the folx expropriated by usg-cum-'private'railroads ( live <10mile of new tracks ? lose land ) about 'property right' , etc
asciilifeform: or hey why not also the plantators.
mircea_popescu: afaik that was paid fer.
asciilifeform: part of why usa has absolute shit rail today -- is the remembered hatred
mircea_popescu: other than a vague awareness that it was pretty good business, buying land from usg at dollar an acre prices, then selling it back a month later to railway
asciilifeform: 'property right' was always a... flexible.. concept , in usa
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, the whole reason "Cowboy" was even possible at all was that chicago canneries (where all the cowboys were headed) got rail link to new york, where all the corned * got et.
asciilifeform: well yes.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, hey, sons of indians.
mircea_popescu: although contemporary notation (say, clemens) does support a very healthy, tmsr-esque understanding of property rights in eg mining booms.
asciilifeform: usa had periodic localized bubbles of sanity
mircea_popescu: then the preachers moved in and "cleaned" the town up.
asciilifeform: sorta why we're sprechen englisch
asciilifeform: preachers, 'abolitionists', various.
mircea_popescu: remind me btw, if i ever end up ruling a new fledged us of a cca 1800, the law will be to shoot all preachers and to hang all menopausal women.
mircea_popescu: "humanitarians" are getting the tepes treatment.
asciilifeform: 'humanitarians' may well resemble mircea_popescu's model of 'aids british'
asciilifeform: i.e. appear where there is already a smell of gangrene
mircea_popescu: "officious intermeddler" aka concern troll.
mircea_popescu: by comparison to the schmuck telling a what to do for b's sake, the scammer is actually quite frequentable.
asciilifeform: 'intermeddler' is a variant of scammer neh
mircea_popescu: hence why preachers (what to do for god's sake!) == abolitionists (what you should do for negro's sake!!) == etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense stupidity is a variant of laziness.
mircea_popescu: sometimes it's just brain damage.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the fact that the great-grandfathers ofd today's "free" maryland blacks had it way the fuck better as slaves is somehow un-known to "scholarship".
asciilifeform: incidentally it's not wholly , imho, nonsensical to consider a picture where 'intermeddler' is actually providing a useful service -- a sync signal, if you will.
mircea_popescu: just like EVERY SINGLE OTHER FUCKING TIME. there is no case known to history where the officious intermeddler's schemes didn't blow up ; nor has this ever been fucking admitted to, ever.
asciilifeform: the advocated idiocy may be just that -- but the need to cut a buncha throats, is not illusory
asciilifeform: it is always there
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense that woman has an inborn whiny tone through which it signals it's not been beaten in too long ?
asciilifeform: it's loud, clear, you can almost tune it in with a crystal set when standing next to one!111
asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's crackpot limonovesque hypothesis , ~societies~ also emit this squeal
asciilifeform: 'kill, pleeees kill us, by the railcar'
asciilifeform: 'we've gone too long between culls'
asciilifeform: 'we will carry on as obscenely obese, impudent swine who have never seen the knife!'
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is not the first nor the last to observe that - e.g. su - croaked ~exactly when the last ww2 vets left public life there
asciilifeform: and for all i know, usa began to sink when the last ww2-gen d00d checked into alzheimer home
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> incidentally it's not wholly , imho, nonsensical to consider a picture where 'intermeddler' is actually providing a useful service -- a sync signal, if you will. << Downside o smoking cessation, loss of nicotine timing signal
BingoBoingo: And it appears killed their node tracker
mircea_popescu: was this the thing that kept pretending anyoen gives a shit abotu whatever bitcoin v 1650.2 ?
BingoBoingo: It the "How many nodes run X software, that derp herp can our software find"
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