1h 43m4d 37m360d 7h 12m8d 2m

Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67637 @ 0.00055146 = 37.2991 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30750 @ 0.00055533 = 17.0764 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: holy shit phf you found wooly mushroom ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52050 @ 0.00055536 = 28.9065 BTC [+]
phf: i will neither confirm nor deny it until i understand the implications :>
danielpbarron: i'll buy your keys+enumerations
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49636 @ 0.00054258 = 26.9315 BTC [-] {2}
phf: speaking of, why are keys get turned into little bit o' nothings?
mircea_popescu: nothing's forever.
mircea_popescu: !up moneycat
mircea_popescu: phf << implications
assbot: An image worth ten thousand words of sadness. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114400 @ 0.00055561 = 63.5618 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66762 @ 0.0005416 = 36.1583 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41000 @ 0.00053454 = 21.9161 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: mircea_popescu, is this ddos on qntra or something else?
mircea_popescu: ddos.
mircea_popescu: its up right now neh ?
cazalla: not from here
BingoBoingo: Seems down
mircea_popescu: now it is lol
mircea_popescu: actually... i see it.
mircea_popescu: slow tho.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054874 = 16.6817 BTC [+]
phf: well, that was my first eulora drama, came back to find my future fortune literally crumble to little bits o' nothing. tracked the coordinates, explored.. nothing. literally feels like i just frantically dug a bunch of earth looking for wooly mushrooms that are no longer there
mircea_popescu: aw! why didn't you dig therm up on the spot like ?
phf: i had no time to, i was enjoying the scenery :)
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: sucks, the mushrooms are in short supply.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34450 @ 0.00055472 = 19.1101 BTC [+]
phf: scuffed up my pick for nothing too. eulora is unforgiving!
mircea_popescu: well... so how do youi like the scenery ?
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 289.0, Best ask: 289.01, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 289.0, 24 hour volume: 69603.92785995, 24 hour low: 281.5, 24 hour high: 308.8, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20019 @ 0.00055472 = 11.1049 BTC [+]
phf: it's amusing, old school. reminds me of early 3d rpgs. i didn't realize how small the island is though. needs more scenery
mircea_popescu: incientally, you can lock claims you know ?
phf: mircea_popescu: oh, then and they stick around?
mircea_popescu: ya
mircea_popescu: anyway, as the population progresses there's gonna be moar maps, but atm too noobish :D
mircea_popescu: you folk haven't even built a ship yet!
phf: :o
mircea_popescu: or an escherian trestlework even
phf: i saw someone's tent so i assume that was possible, but a ship
phf: are you thinking of extending the same map, or completely new locations via teleports or such?
mircea_popescu: the latter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28300 @ 0.00055472 = 15.6986 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the whole thing is very much player driven. for instance, out of the ~dozen skills available, afaik players found like .. 4 so far ? i guess 5.
mircea_popescu: there's going to be an update this week adding more, but i doubt anyone's gonna see it this month. maybe. depends how seriously ppl play.
mircea_popescu: and generally, i expect expansions to be there long before anyone actually reached the point where they can play them
mircea_popescu: at least, that's the intended strategy.
phf: well, my initial impression is that it would be hard to discover all the available functionality
BingoBoingo: Does Eulora have chairs yet, so that they may be stacked for space exploration purposes?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yes.
phf: i started with help, but there wasn't even a mention of mining, and some of the commands that are in help are not implemented (e.g. /dig)
mircea_popescu: crucial tool for mcguyvering too.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah the helpfile as bundled with the client is a mess atm.
phf: oh i thought that was pulled from the server
mircea_popescu: if you read the first node, which is really all that i've bothered with, it even tells you the location on disk
mircea_popescu: make your own :D
phf: ha
phf: "lock yo shit!"
mircea_popescu: it'll get wiped eventually even if locked, but you get more than the unlocked hour.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83137 @ 0.00055533 = 46.1685 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: anyway, the current eulora problem as far as miners are concerned is : there's a single shot very powerful mining tool, which seems like the oinly hope to acquire essential resources choking toolmaking and cooking. since these are in short supply, people are working to make a map of known resources, so as to explore the unknown spots
mircea_popescu: so you can help with that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146113 @ 0.00055648 = 81.309 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: or alternatively you could find someone to sell you the crafting starter item and try to get skill starter drops
mircea_popescu: which has also been pretty slow.
phf: it's very much a scarcity world
mircea_popescu: well, the copper's bitcoin based, so.
phf: right, exactly i was about to say, necessary with the funding model
mircea_popescu: not even the funding model, it deliberately has a strong currency for purely game design concerns
mircea_popescu: none of that bullshit bezzle game economics, ima puke if i see another SoJ
mircea_popescu: !up CrazyLoafer
CrazyLoafer: wow this is where all the celebrities hang out :O
CrazyLoafer: i enjoy your writings mircea_popescu :)
mircea_popescu: an' who might you be ?
mircea_popescu: cool.
CrazyLoafer: just a crypto investor; saw a mention of this site and wanted to check it out
mircea_popescu: !topic
cazalla: CrazyLoafer, what are your investments?
mircea_popescu: hm that dun work huh. anyway, logs are in teh topic.
CrazyLoafer: BTC, LTC, XMR, some other smaller alts
mircea_popescu: which was xmr again ?
CrazyLoafer: monero
CrazyLoafer: rpietila's coin :P
mircea_popescu: haha i thought it was fluffypony 's
CrazyLoafer: well his too
mircea_popescu: wait.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony you actually met the silver baron dude ?
mircea_popescu: !up artilectinc
mircea_popescu: phf or for that matter wow style "rares" which everyone has. wtf is achievement even supposed to mean outside of a scarcity world.
mircea_popescu: dumbass ipad games, you tap the screen twice and it's CONGRATULATIONS! you're level 5.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114303 @ 0.00055811 = 63.7936 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: which obviously, together with their inability to model, makes bullshit like "level caps" unavoidable and on and fucking on
mircea_popescu doesn't actually like anything about current games.
mircea_popescu: i guess the melonsized tits are ok, if pressed.
BingoBoingo built cal3d, building crystalspace, seeing later if Eulora builds
mircea_popescu: what on, ubuntu ? tis breezy
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: OpenBSD
phf: 3d jiggle technologies have gone a long way
BingoBoingo: cal3d was in ports, so yay
mircea_popescu: phf cheaper to just put one slave girl on twerk detail while playing an actual game
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo mind that you need a specific one.
phf: :D
BingoBoingo: Well only one way to find out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63595 @ 0.00053865 = 34.2554 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this is true.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11098 @ 0.0005376 = 5.9663 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: if you manage to get it going on openbsd put the recipe in ima give you some gin or wine or something
assbot: Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( )
BingoBoingo: K
phf: it seems like a tricky balance between integrity and fun. i've not thought about this enough, but it seems the more integrity you have in game the more you gain by not actually directly playing the game
BingoBoingo: I'm just trying the lazy way before actually hunting down the "correct" versions of Cal3d and crystalspace
phf: mining for example is usually solved either by people who have nothing better to do but grind, or else heavy scripting
mircea_popescu: eulora mining is complex.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26800 @ 0.00056078 = 15.0289 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78600 @ 0.00056172 = 44.1512 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: phf in any case, there is no actual incentive to bot, or i suppose the proper format would be to say everyone can bot just as well.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65900 @ 0.00056172 = 37.0173 BTC [+] {2}
phf: i'm thinking i don't know enough about how eulora world works to say much. you mentioned that people are mapping mining locations, but then i tried searching for mushrooms around a location where i found them previously and couldn't find any
phf: so i'm sure there's some kind of logic there that i don't yet understand
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: but basically, from a player pov, the economy is elastic enough you can choose. you wish to risk 100 coppers per click, do X. you wish to risk 10k per click, no need to do X 100 times, can just as well do Y.
mircea_popescu: whereas in stupid games, it's "faucet X is the biggest, gotta bot this or bust".
mircea_popescu: and it has little to dowith bottage, it becomes a time arbitrage - if bots are prevented chinese farms will do it by hand
phf: seems like if i wanted to find them, i might as well write a bot that would do random walk, then explore, etc. let it run for a day. though that will cost me in pick quality. hmm
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: that's exactly it.
phf: i see what you mean above
phf: right
mircea_popescu: some people enjoy the detail, they can do X. some people enjoy pacino's puckered asshole... let them do y.
mircea_popescu: there's no level cap either, you can craft anything as a noob.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yep I have, although afaik he's getting out the silver game
mircea_popescu: so is he for real ?
mircea_popescu: had the longest standing debate with hanbot, whether he's a superellaborate troll or what.
fluffypony: yeah, and he's a nice enough guy, had fun drinking with him in Berlin
mircea_popescu: nuts.
fluffypony: which of you said he isn't a troll?
mircea_popescu: amusingly, we took turns at it over the years.
fluffypony: lol
mircea_popescu: but mostly, her.
fluffypony: CrazyLoafer: Risto holds XMR, and he's vocal, but he's not responsible for directing it in any way -
assbot: The People Behind Monero | Monero - secure, private, untraceable ... ( )
scoopbot_revived: The increasingly tricky proposition of multiculturalism.
mircea_popescu: phf which is why it's fun - actually fun. because you gotta find a way. it's too complex to effectually model even, at least so far, so therefore what bots.
mircea_popescu: now, granted, this isn'tr most people's idea of fun - having an untractable problem in their lap.
mircea_popescu: then again, i don't give a shit about most people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58300 @ 0.0005575 = 32.5023 BTC [-]
phf: well, it was naive of me to expect a b-a game to be mindless ;)
mircea_popescu: it is pretty disruptive, or in the converse expression, it isn't at all described by what people think when they hear the word mmorpg.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nubbins` btw, phf managed to get it going on os/x
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Donald Trump Calls FBI After El Chapo, Escaped Drug Lord, Threatens Him On Twitter ... ( )
mircea_popescu: they'd better shut down his account!
trinque: seriously where are the administrators
mircea_popescu: threats are a serious matter. expecially on the internets!
trinque: lol
trinque: this would be the best publicity yet for mr trump
mircea_popescu: and especiallymost when directed at random starlets so desperate for publicity they'd eat their own head
ag3nt_zer0: I struggle to see how cultural relativism, multiculturalism as manisfest in states, offers any sort of couldn't-do-without-benefit to the western civilizational heritage... It seems to be manifested as a hugely destructive and degenerative force in US regarding everything from lowered national debate standards to laxed educational standards, erosion of free speech, critical theory where it doesn't really belong, poltical
ag3nt_zer0: past and thus no concern for the future,, etc
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 cultural relativism has just about nothing to do with multiculturalism
mircea_popescu: the relationship is quite akin fast food and cuisine.
mircea_popescu: mr tricatel isn't in any sense part of the academie francaise, that's for mr. duchemin
mircea_popescu: (you seen l'aile ou la cuisse ?)
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: in the states this is what it is
mircea_popescu: mno
mircea_popescu: "the states" isn't a special place where the derps can get 5 to be an transcendental if they so agree.
ag3nt_zer0: I think we are talking about different thnigs here
mircea_popescu: aha ?
ag3nt_zer0: Here it becomes simply a term that excuses all of that shit I described
trinque: I think we just wiped our ass with our only copy of the language.
mircea_popescu: sure, and there you also have "the country of africa" and assorted other fictions
ag3nt_zer0: its lumped right there with tolerance and diversity
ag3nt_zer0: I think Mark Steyn said multiculturalism is a unicultural phenomena
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: if that was for me, I haven't seen l'aile ou la cuisse
trinque: whatever one can say about multiculturalism, it's not going to come from any observation of the modern usa
mircea_popescu: so maybe check it out. it's the same discussion, except carried out in the 70s
ag3nt_zer0: what about Sharia law in London?
mircea_popescu: what about it ?
ag3nt_zer0: I mean I like the mexicans tacos for sure but the culture doesnt respect education in the same way... so there is a clash there
trinque: the education problem isn't their culture, it's the school's culture
ag3nt_zer0: and the way it is dealt with in the west these days seems to just LCD everything
mircea_popescu: the who to the what now ?
ag3nt_zer0: ok. does not Sharia Law conflict in a number of ways with the western "liberty traditon"?
mircea_popescu: i dunno. like which ways ?
ag3nt_zer0: well for instance what's the left gonna do when the gays have issues with the muslims?
mircea_popescu: this you gotta ask the left :)
mircea_popescu: but from the little i cared to read, it'd seem to me "sharia law" applies in london within sharia laws communities, which is not actually relevant to you.
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: I don't think thats the reason... Intelligence and motivation are greater than facilities and even teachers
mircea_popescu: what about "amish law" and whatever./
ag3nt_zer0: check US Ed Reform black hole for supporting statistics
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: my comment was about why you have to care whether they "respect education"
trinque: if so why are they in school
trinque: once they're there, how do you expect to fix it?
trinque: as for the sharia thing, they play that a lot in the "right" leaning news here
trinque: that europe is falling to teh muslims
trinque: probably about like maryland is falling to the blacks
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: I don't know what about Amish Law.
mircea_popescu: but there's this community of weirdos doing things like forcing kids to go without electricity.
ag3nt_zer0: I see multiculturalism as about as well-intentioned as the food court in the mall
mircea_popescu: not to even go into the no-transfusion groups or whatnot.
ag3nt_zer0: hmmm
ag3nt_zer0: well I dont mind that
mircea_popescu: bully for you
cazalla: the no transfusion thing is bullshit .. i grew up with that and when push comes to shove, most opt to take blood
mircea_popescu: so what's this, we're gonna tailor the shoulds and should nots by what you mind ?
ag3nt_zer0: haha no
ag3nt_zer0: I dont see the connection
mircea_popescu: some people keep the kids in blessed underwear ; some people keep the kids without ipads ; some other people keep the kids in burkas
ag3nt_zer0: Have you seen detroit?
trinque: yes but I don't like the burkas
mircea_popescu: what exactly is your choice paradigm to distinguish between these, and why exactly is it that the utah mormons don't bother you but the london muslims do.
trinque: that totalitarian thought gets buried deep.
mircea_popescu: to not even go into the chinatowns. those people put VINEGAR into their COOKED food, and sugar in things which are not desert.
ag3nt_zer0: because the utah mormans are still under the umbrella of western aeonic development
mircea_popescu: this, in romania, is excomunication.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut.
chetty: the difference is the mormons dont try to insist everyone should wear their underwear, the muslims get pretty insistant about burkas
mircea_popescu: o really ?
ag3nt_zer0: different peoples just have different ways of doing things... this also means that they have different ways of doing civilization... so that maybe one group can't take the reigns from another without significant hardship and the potential high risk for failure and disaster
ag3nt_zer0: see detroit maybe
mircea_popescu: i take it you've never had jehovites at the door chetty ?
ag3nt_zer0: sure i have
chetty: well none of them ever tried to behead me for not listening
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 yeah well if the brits weren't some unvigorous waster cunts, mayb the muslims wouldn't HAVE TO take their country from them
mircea_popescu: how about that.
trinque: chetty: sounds like a defense problem
trinque: technology should solve that one
mircea_popescu: chetty as proven by what, that you still have your head ? maybe they tried but ineptly, like anything else they do
chetty: hahahaha
mircea_popescu: lol
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: how bout it. might be somethin to that
trinque: they did after all blow up that building that time
mircea_popescu: i dunno that muslims pester non muslim women to wear burkas. not anymore than catholics pester non catholic women about how to raise the children
trinque: and some other ones
mircea_popescu: but i did find out with dismay that the fucktarded usians convicted some dude to hard prison for fucking his partner on some beach
trinque: "florida man"
mircea_popescu: which to me personally is about as offensive as anything the mulsims do in their god forsaken desert shithole.
ag3nt_zer0: "partner" haha
chetty: well if the news can be believed they are killing a lot of christians in the ME for not converting ...
trinque: it's really sad. reported as a pair of perverts because gasp, a 4 year old saw
mircea_popescu: what, like the us is killing a buncha ukrainians for same ?
mircea_popescu: war is war. tana-nanana
ag3nt_zer0: oh thats bad
assbot: Live is Life - Opus - YouTube ... ( )
ag3nt_zer0: let's talk about this again in 20 years!
chetty: MP just might feel a little different if he were female
mircea_popescu: well you'd feel a lot different if you were a lobster
ag3nt_zer0: I, for one, can't wait for the premiere of I am Cait!
mircea_popescu: cuz iirc they don't eat lobster.
mircea_popescu: or wait, that's the jess
mircea_popescu: jews*
cazalla: ag3nt_zer0, are ya gonna gather the family round and watch together?
ag3nt_zer0: given that the suicide rate is like 10 times higher if you are by "nature" transgender, I have this sick thought that it would be epic if I am Cait ended with a self inflicted shotgun blast to the head...
trinque: so this guy cut his dick off to land a TV series?
mircea_popescu: what's this thing anyway ?
ag3nt_zer0: cazalla: yes
ag3nt_zer0: Bruce Jender
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a very readily obvious and openly available method to not have to suffer the indignities of the defeated.
mircea_popescu: don't fucking lose.
assbot: The European Grammar of Self-Intolerance [Jonathan Bowden] - YouTube ... ( )
cazalla: ag3nt_zer0, the white guilt shit in that video, i don't really understand or grasp why people suffer from that
assbot: Iran, big powers clinch landmark nuclear deal| Reuters ... ( )
trinque: so how long before saudi asks pakistan for one of its preordered nukes?
trinque: cazalla: me either
ag3nt_zer0: well, ... the video is 12 minutes long and i posted it 6 minutes ago... maybe at least give the whole thought a listen
cazalla: ya, only 4m in
ag3nt_zer0: fwiw, I sat through college lectures on "micro-aggressions" where the big bad white man just sat there and took it that he was the bad guy
trinque: I'm still listening to it
ag3nt_zer0: that's the guilt
ag3nt_zer0: or the cowardice
ag3nt_zer0: whatever
trinque: yeah, american college is terrible
trinque: I was paid to go and still left
punkman: "“We’re dealing with basically tourists,” Dafonseca said. “They’re here on the beaches of Manatee County, our public beaches. So you want to make sure that this isn’t something that just goes by the wayside. And that it is well known to the community what will be tolerated and what won’t be.”"
punkman: ahaha
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: what guilt? the class is on teaching you that you're guilty.
trinque: so tell them to fuck themselves?
ag3nt_zer0: yeah maybe
ag3nt_zer0: but when you put in 7 years
ag3nt_zer0: most arent willing to do that
ag3nt_zer0: I did.
trinque: too bad for 'em
ag3nt_zer0: but I was alone
ag3nt_zer0: they were all busy loving
ag3nt_zer0: or chasing that psper
ag3nt_zer0: I was terrified while I was doing it man... they held the power
ag3nt_zer0: and I did it for stupid idealistic shit
trinque: I'm just a bag of mineral water walking around, man
trinque: fuck a national or cultural identity
mircea_popescu: haha mineral water srsly.
ag3nt_zer0: like "if I dont stand up now, I cant tell studetns to later"
ag3nt_zer0: haha... fortunately it worked out
trinque: this guy said hegemonic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77500 @ 0.00056235 = 43.5821 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: yeah man, he's just giving people excuses for being confused about who they are
trinque: maybe it is harder in the shit ocean, but sucks for them
ag3nt_zer0: Oh I love Bowden man
trinque: otherwise what, a better church?
trinque: or a mother-state?
ag3nt_zer0: it's like medicine for california disease
trinque: I am always suspicious of a person giving someone a very serious sounding description of an abstract mental dysfunction they have.
trinque: apply that to whatever you like
trinque: church, public school bureaucrats, so on
cazalla: ag3nt_zer0, i never finished school but by paying to attend these places of higher education, you are buying what they're selling whether it be white guilt or what not.. i ran into this type of shit in different jobs but i always just refused to go along with it and they were always stumped as what to do next
trinque: both for the obvious reason and because for the person hearing it, it sounds like a damned fancy excuse to not put themselves together
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46800 @ 0.00056159 = 26.2824 BTC [-]
cazalla: in the mid 90s students were asked to sign a "sorry book" apologising to the australian aboriginies.. i just refused to sign it and that was that, if the other students had simply done the same, it would not have gained any traction, there was no consequence for not signing the stupid fucking book
punkman: "Jose Caballero, 40, was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison today for an X-rated beach frolic he had with Elissa Alvarez, 21, last July. Both Caballero and Alvarez will both have to register as sex offenders for their mischief, which involved copulating on a crowded beach, in the middle of the day, in front of a four-year-old."
trinque: lol! sorry book!
punkman: only 2.5 years
trinque: cazalla: that's hilarious
trinque: we're just supposed to look sadly at the page of the book on the trail of tears for a few minutes, then move on
cazalla: but these fucking drones just signed it and passed it to the next person, i never really understood that
punkman: sorry book indeed
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: fuck a national or cultural identity - i used to feel that way... but I always felt like you can go the other way too... thinking that things matter. So, it's from there that I would ask are a culture and, much later, a nation, originally expressions of individual races?
cazalla: but anyway.. what is that saying.. a nation can survive anything but treachery from within.. mircea_popescu is right that if you don't want to suffer this, don't be on the losing team.. if muslims ride into battle and rape and kill all the english (or australians) than i guess so be it, only thing i despite more than the muslims are the limp wristed whites
mircea_popescu: it'll do them a lot of good
mircea_popescu: the people born of that will not suck so much
mircea_popescu: punkman and she's pretty, too.
trinque: she got less time, maybe because of that?
trinque: or maybe she turned on him and signed the "yes we actually fucked" papers
mircea_popescu: cazalla so people wanna play this kink for a while, big whoop.
mircea_popescu: trinque or maybe they just dunno wtf they're doing, spinning the wheel of morality over there
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: I still feel that way btw... I just oscillate in efforts to destroy what I thought earlier
trinque: who trusted us with a country
mircea_popescu: "in front of a four year old" wtf is the snotty shit, a judge now ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20943 @ 0.00056159 = 11.7614 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: nothing can happen "in front of a four year old". because no four year old is the fucking axis of thew world already
punkman: trinque: she got no time
trinque: lol!
trinque: well good, it's only penises that are illegal anyway
ag3nt_zer0: cazalla: yes I bought what they sold and willingly... and I am that now
assbot: This rapper shot a police officer. Will 'Stand Your Ground' set him free? | Fusion ... ( )
BingoBoingo: What's the weirdest node useragent everyone is connected to right now. I'm apparently peering with: "subver" : "/Satoshi:0.11.99/Gangnam Style:v1.00XL",
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144500 @ 0.0005588 = 80.7466 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: what is the command BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Depends on your version. In 0.7 getpeerinfo was introduced
BingoBoingo: Otherwise I guess you gotta check the logs
cazalla: "subver" : "/btcwire:0.2.0/", have not seen this one before
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.0005575 = 39.4153 BTC [-]
cazalla: meh nothing interesting, only 30 odd connections.. was over 100 for a few weeks but dropped off for some reason
punkman: (´°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥ω°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥`)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49209 @ 0.00056288 = 27.6988 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up Itile
Itile: Hi all. When bet 1158 will be payed, who know?
cazalla: Itile, you win that one too eh?
mircea_popescu: tonight prolly.
cazalla: i believe bets are paid 2 days from resolved now
Itile: 3 days 7 hours
mircea_popescu blames bitcoin.
cazalla: poor Itile, waiting like patience on a monument over here
mircea_popescu: guy got a point.
Itile: What is maximum of delaying in days? Faq not answer this.
cazalla: eh i'm waiting too, i could bitch that kakobrekla should pay as fast as he collects but who'd listen, i'm sure it'll be paid
cazalla drinking... drought has ended, whiskey rains from the sky
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97550 @ 0.00056311 = 54.9314 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: how long did ya hold out cazalla
mircea_popescu: Itile you mean maximum so far ? i dunno, something like a week on contentious bets iirc.
cazalla: punkman, about 6 weeks.. not drinking sorta reminded me of why i drank in the first place
BingoBoingo: Ah, an empty block 365248
assbot: Bitcoin Block #365248 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: why was that ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, me?
mircea_popescu: ya
cazalla: meh i dunno, it's a good friend in that you don't see it for a while but you just pick up where you left off
cazalla: can't say that about many other people in my life
BingoBoingo: So, asciilifeform's node is connected to
assbot: Transactions Relayed By - ... ( )
BingoBoingo: cazalla: You had a good run
Itile: Bet 1090 was resolved 30-06, but payed 11-07. Why so long period? 11 days!
BingoBoingo: Very contentious stuff that bat
cazalla: BingoBoingo, yeah longer than i thought i'd last.. i'll enjoy this bottle and then take another break i think
mircea_popescu: Itile a contentious bet can linger forever.
punkman: was USMS the longest bet?
mircea_popescu: possibru
mircea_popescu: bfl was also open for a while
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50566 @ 0.00056323 = 28.4803 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00056324 = 15.2075 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66150 @ 0.00056405 = 37.3119 BTC [+]
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79450 @ 0.00056407 = 44.8154 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121558 @ 0.00055694 = 67.7005 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: preddy sure million dorrrah extreme is best evar
assbot: Techno Toys - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00055668 = 6.7358 BTC [-]
cazalla: hehe
assbot: ... ( )
punkman: wtf is that
cazalla: i gotta deedbot it son
cazalla: but i am so drunk i forget how
cazalla: fuck, i know this
cazalla: deedbot-
assbot: ... ( )
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
punkman: you gotta sign it, but maybe wait until tomorrow
cazalla: ya, can't even sign my own name at this point
punkman: just don't dpaste your private key
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120900 @ 0.00055944 = 67.6363 BTC [+]
cazalla: nah it'd have to be deliberate to do such a thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91070 @ 0.00056172 = 51.1558 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12030 @ 0.00056458 = 6.7919 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: BingoBoingo, you put any faith in this rumour that da williams sisters are actually men?
assbot: IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Serena Williams IS A MAN - YouTube ... ( )
fluffypony: omg
fluffypony: a flag fell, so therefore
fluffypony: what am I watching
fluffypony: oh apparently Michelle Obama is a man too
cazalla: yeah this is some deep level alex jones type shit fluffypony
cazalla: new ISIS movie is preddy gud
cazalla: "kill them wherever you find em"
cazalla: headshotting helicopters
assbot: Islamic state fighter shoots down Iraqi helicopter with MANPADS in Salahuddin province (July, 2015) - YouTube ... ( )
fluffypony: shot down with a mani-pedi?
fluffypony: salon staff are getting violent
shinohai: experimental pogo landing page:
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40750 @ 0.00056531 = 23.0364 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00056415 = 24.7662 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58154 @ 0.00056415 = 32.8076 BTC [-]
assbot: - Guy Threatens To Shoot Out With Sheriff ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49175 @ 0.00055885 = 27.4814 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00055118 = 7.0551 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;isup
gribble: is down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97150 @ 0.00056444 = 54.8353 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: <trinque> [20150714 03:19] should be a simple switch to flip in << no, it needs own valid cert, otherwise peers will go "wtf is this. disconnect!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37600 @ 0.00056215 = 21.1368 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44271 @ 0.00056253 = 24.9038 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29629 @ 0.00056554 = 16.7564 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193300 @ 0.00055437 = 107.1597 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109935 @ 0.00056581 = 62.2023 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33109 @ 0.00054846 = 18.159 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50568 @ 0.00056158 = 28.398 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84200 @ 0.00056676 = 47.7212 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: Here is the beast that will solve all your time issues:
assbot: IBM Computer Terminal and Monitor LCD Quartz Mini Clock | eBay ... ( )
jurov: lol why not these?
assbot: Betty White Bea Arthur Golden Girls TV Show Television Wall Clock | eBay ... ( )
assbot: B 17 Flying Fortress Pin Up Girl Bomber Wall Clock 51 | eBay ... ( )
thestringpuller: why is qntra getting hammered? they hate us cause they ain't us?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67173 @ 0.00055695 = 37.412 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99261 @ 0.00056477 = 56.0596 BTC [+] {3}
fluffypony: why not just stick qntra / a mirror behind CloudFlare? it's a news site, it's not like the information is super sensitive
mats: ideology.
asciilifeform: from the lulzfarms:
assbot: Today, eBay bans bitcoin... : Bitcoin ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27015 @ 0.00056692 = 15.3153 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59235 @ 0.00056707 = 33.5904 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, just the mempool on the s.nsa node is a GB and a half
asciilifeform: pogo is going nowhere until we have a mempool limit mechanism.
asciilifeform: what kind of imbecile thought that it was proper to have an unbounded data structure ?
asciilifeform: that eats arbitrary tonnage of shit fed in from the net, no less.
decimation: asciilifeform: it is taking weeks for my 2gb ram server ti sync
decimation: it's not even hitting swap all that hard
jurov: decimation: it has hdd/ssd?
decimation: mechanical hdd
decimation: plenty of space
jurov: well.... that's just too slow. either add RAM or change to SSD
jurov: or some unholy combination, perhaps
decimation: yeah I think it is I/O limited
decimation: it seems to be maxing disk reads at around 16 megabit/s and writes at 8 megabit/s
jurov: dm-cache using 8 GB SSD would be worth trying, i will when pogos come
jurov: now if these ssds in msata format were actually cheap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00054607 = 22.7711 BTC [-]
decimation: ah, I had cstate shit enabled, might be part of the problem
mats: hm, seems all versions of Flash on Firefox are blocked by default right now
danielpbarron: !up junseth
junseth: Hi everyone. thought i'd come by for another flogging :)
funkenstein_: junseth, don't give me that you snotty faced heap of parrot droppings
junseth: yes more!
funkenstein_: hehe, actually I'm in line with you
funkenstein_: <-- need a patch to nuke all TX relaying
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 14:57:48; asciilifeform: pogo is going nowhere until we have a mempool limit mechanism.
jurov: funkenstein_: imo tx relaying is fine.. but holding them in memory beyond that is problematic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00054607 = 15.29 BTC [-]
funkenstein_: jurov, true, one could have a max size or max bandwidth even as command line flags with a bit of work.
funkenstein_: i was sorta under the assumption the main purpose was to be present en masse in block relaying network, hence providing some sanity in block verification
jurov: and who will relay transactions?
funkenstein_: that is responsibility of tx publisher to get them to a miner
funkenstein_: though plenty of full nodes on real iron still will relay
funkenstein_: tx relaying is strictly philanthropic at the moment if iiuc
jurov: so you yourself connect directly to miners and never need tx relaying services?
funkenstein_: for broadcasting a TX today i would recommend, there are a few others that will get your tx to miners
funkenstein_: with increasing use i expect it to get harder and harder
jurov: O.o i cant even
funkenstein_: my point is, tx relaying is useful but non-essential
jurov: how it is non-essential?
jurov: are you using bitcoin at all?
funkenstein_: integrity of blockchain and consensus is essential. How TXs get to miners is not. They could go by pigeon to Luke-JR's kitchen if need be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131050 @ 0.00054559 = 71.4996 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: "blockchain is more important than bitcoin" i heard it somewhere
funkenstein_: my argument is bitcoin is more important than TX relaying
jurov: and my experience is that having a stable long-running and well-connected node gives me an edge with my transactions propagations
jurov: why even running a node otherwise?
jurov: lets just submit everything to and verify their blocks and sleep tight
jurov: ?
funkenstein_: so you can check yourself the coin you receive
jurov: how? pogo will not have wallet nor block explorer
jurov: also, what happens when screws up like recently? how are the tx gonna go to miners?
funkenstein_: ok pogo is a different story again.. for me broadcasting a tx is not as time important usually as your needs i bet
gernika: <+mats> ideology. << what about a qntra email list? I'd search the logs to see if this has been proposed in the past but ... can't.
mats: dun think so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00054559 = 33.772 BTC [-]
gernika: My OpenBSD bitcoind has stopped syncing: trying connection x.x.x.x:8333 lastseen=-371358.4hrs lasttry=-399136.2hrs | it had been syncing from the address in the qntra post.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00054559 = 9.0568 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 186085 @ 0.00054559 = 101.5261 BTC [-]
mod6: what block?
mod6: #
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84987 @ 0.00054607 = 46.4089 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76650 @ 0.00054533 = 41.7995 BTC [-] {3}
gernika: mod6 250694
mod6: ok, yeah, im getting the same thing.
mod6: (gentoo) turned mine on to try. node must be down or something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50064 @ 0.00054509 = 27.2894 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: my node has also stopped syncing
danielpbarron: "blocks" : 365253,
danielpbarron: ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : not enough fees << lots of this in my debug.log
danielpbarron: !up fromphuctor
fromphuctor: hello, how can I get my information removed from
danielpbarron: i don't think you can, but asciilifeform and mircea_popescu are the ones that could do it if it can be done
danielpbarron: << a guy threatened to punch me in the face for offering him some cannabis infront of his 4ish year old the other day
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 08:20:36; mircea_popescu: "in front of a four year old" wtf is the snotty shit, a judge now ?
fromphuctor: so should I private message them or wait here?
danielpbarron: wait here
jurov: fromphuctor: did you remove the info from SKS keyserver, too?
jurov: also, other keyservers might mirror it
fromphuctor: i havent but when I google my name it's only showing up at
danielpbarron: is your key phucked?
nubbins`: yeah, is your key phucked?
nubbins`: curious minds wish to know
mod6: danielpbarron: so you're like 50 blocks behind now?
danielpbarron: yeh
fromphuctor: I no longer use the key and I just dont want my info being indexed by google
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90885 @ 0.00054509 = 49.5405 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: fromphuctor, but is the key cracked? I'm sure a bunch of people would like to know how you created it if it was.
mod6: hmm, that error comes from one place: << perhaps thats when all of those tiny tx's started filling up the block space?
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
fromphuctor: danielpbarron. I have no idea, I longer use it
fromphuctor: no longer*
trinque: fromphuctor: maybe you don't understand the purpose of phuctor?
fromphuctor: sure it's to store my public gpg key
nubbins`: nope
trinque: incorrect
nubbins`: it's to find keys that were generated insecurely
trinque: ^
danielpbarron: fromphuctor, was the text all a happy green or a mean red?
nubbins`: phuctor is smashing numbers together, right now, churning through huge data sets of pgp keys
mod6: its purpose is to factor keys with GCD
mod6: rsa keys
nubbins`: trying to find clues as to broken implementations, flaws in rsa, etc
trinque: fromphuctor: sks is the system which distributes public keys
fromphuctor: GCD(N, Π(∀n)): 1 (Ok, for now!)
fromphuctor: not sure what that means but it's green
trinque: fromphuctor: then why would you want that info taken off the internet?
trinque: this means your key is *not* broken
nubbins`: means nobody else's key is suspiciously similar to yours :D
nubbins`: (yet!)
fromphuctor: I dont want the other associated info on the net
trinque: fromphuctor: a public key is called public because it is safe to distribute
fromphuctor: I'm aware of that
trinque: what is this, the right to be forgotten?
nubbins`: heh
danielpbarron: well so far he's only asked nicely
nubbins`: fromphuctor, i can only imagine your key was gleaned from some other publicly-accessible key server
mod6: yeah, iirc keys will not be removed from the phuctor pool.
danielpbarron: and makes a good point: only nosuchlabs shows up in google search
mod6: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: << ahahahahahaha. you can't. deal with it.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 16:35:26; fromphuctor: hello, how can I get my information removed from
fromphuctor: im pretty sure there's laws in place that give me the right to have that info removed
ascii_field: in my country, you cannot copyright your name.
ascii_field: (which we don't even know)
danielpbarron: oo here we go!
danielpbarron "grabs popcorn" or w/e
fromphuctor: which country is that
ascii_field: usa.
trinque: I'm still perplexed by the idea that someone would be bothered by what is a highly beneficial *free* service annotating entirely *public* data
fluffypony: but pubkeys are easily browsable on other key servers
trinque: ^
ascii_field: aha, virtually all of the pubkeys in phuctor come from sks.
trinque: but it's really important that *this* one be taken down
ascii_field: which is mirrored 1,001 times worldwide.
fluffypony: look, fromphuctor, here's mine:
assbot: Search results for '0x7455c5e3c0cdceb9' ... ( )
fluffypony: publicly visible
fluffypony: with *gasp* personal information
fluffypony: hosted by the Glorious Defenders of Privacy at MIT
fromphuctor: if my info disappeared from sks, would it be removed from nosuchlabs
ascii_field: fromphuctor: afaik nothing has ever disappeared from sks.
fromphuctor: that doesnt answer my question
ascii_field: the answer is no.
fromphuctor: do you maintain the database for nosuchlabs
ascii_field: fromphuctor: realize that anyone can submit anything to sks
asciilifeform: !up fromphuctor
fluffypony: SKS doesn't mandate that you remove data to keep in sync
ascii_field: i.e. your enemy can submit the key again
fluffypony: yup
assbot: Key server (cryptographic) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
ascii_field: i am under no obligation to modify my code to make 'mr x' (whose name we do not yet know, nor have any proof that 'his' key is his) disappear every time someone submits him.
fluffypony: 'Once a public key has been uploaded, it is difficult to remove. Some users stop using their public keys for various reasons, such as when they forget their pass phrase, or if their private key is compromised or lost. In those cases, it was hard to delete a public key from the server, and even if it were deleted, someone else can upload a fresh copy of the same public key to the server. This leads to an accumulation of old fossil
fluffypony: public keys that never go away, a form of "keyserver plaque".'
fluffypony: also known as the "sorry for you" problem
funkenstein_: maybe one day we will learn to use namecoin
fromphuctor: im not concerned about the key floating around, just the other information listed on nosuchlabs
ascii_field: fromphuctor: we even have a list of folks for whom some hooligan submitted entirely fraudulent (as far as we can tell) keys. nothing can be done about this.
fromphuctor: sounds solid
ascii_field: fromphuctor: what other information? the only things visible are what is in your key - the name and email addr entered when it was generated.
fromphuctor: right, and I want that removed
ascii_field: fromphuctor: did you upload your key to sks? or did it live under your pillow, and you are telling us that someone stole it and uploaded it ?
fromphuctor: I'm pretty sure I uploaded it to sks years ago
ascii_field: then you are officially fucked and i officially have zero sympathy.
ascii_field: you are welcome to wait until mircea_popescu logs on, and ask him for a contact address where to file a frivolous lawsuit. he loves winning those.
fromphuctor: im not asking for sympathy, Im asking you to remove my name and information from your website
jurov: name and email (optionally even photo!) are part of public key and thus public.
ascii_field: fromphuctor: the answer is no. any other questions ?
fromphuctor: sure, ill wait for mircea
fluffypony: so you can hear the same thing again?
ascii_field: fluffypony: nah he wants to give mp his money
fromphuctor: nah, ill take your compan's info
fluffypony: my company?
fluffypony: my company doesn't have a public key in SKS
fluffypony: although you do remind me of this:
assbot: I’m in highschool and money was stolen from my bank account. I need help NOW : legaladvice ... ( )
trinque: encounters strange... gets scared and angry...
trinque: they ought to have a test for this in early childhood
trinque: fromphuctor: you've been done a service at another's expense, and you're behaving like a fool
ascii_field: trinque: we haven't even any reason to believe that mr x owns the private key to this pubkey (which? also no idea)
trinque: course not
ascii_field: nor that this fella's mother gave him this name (again, which name?)
trinque: sure, but y'know he's gonna SUE
fluffypony: I do find the righteous indignation humorous
ascii_field: aha. not even in schmuckistan where i live, can you win this.
fluffypony: it's not like this is a revenge porn site and we're laughing at the diminutive size of his member
trinque: it's a goddamn public phone book
ascii_field: mirror of phonebook with 1,001 mirrors.
ascii_field: none of which the fool wrote to, presumably
ascii_field: nor google, which appears to be the proximate cause of his sorrows
ascii_field: (why not write to google? they censor first, ask questions later)
trinque: anyone else noticed the from* pattern of nicks?
ascii_field: trinque: that's proper
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100300 @ 0.00054607 = 54.7708 BTC [+]
ascii_field: trinque: folks who click the link on phuctor www get a webportal into freenode
ascii_field: and that's the default nick
trinque: ah I see
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143200 @ 0.00054164 = 77.5628 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97200 @ 0.00053789 = 52.2829 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: << re: the device spoken of yesterday. discusses fw reflashing
assbot: ... ( )
ascii_field: in other lulz,
assbot: ... ( )
ascii_field: BingoBoingo ^
danielpbarron: SetBestChain: new best=00000000000000000581 height=365258 work=10171447580846858256181698 << my node is syncing again
ascii_field: danielpbarron: was this a clock problem ?
danielpbarron: don't think so, or at least I did nothing to correct anything
danielpbarron: didn't even restart it
mod6: now it's workin?
mod6: ok so you've moved up 5 blocks.
mod6: would be inetersting/nice to see the ms time on how long it takes to process blocks {365`251, 365`252}; blocks > 900kb
danielpbarron: on a pogo the answer is a few minutes
mod6: hmm
danielpbarron: height=365259
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130150 @ 0.00053554 = 69.7005 BTC [-] {6}
danielpbarron: height=365260
thestringpuller: mod6: "The bitcoin foundation doesn't care reddit-people." - Kanye West
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40670 @ 0.00053319 = 21.6848 BTC [-] {3}
danielpbarron: height=365261
mod6: thestringpuller: ha
mod6: danielpbarron: ah ok
mod6: 365259 = 908.97k - 1090 tx's
mod6: 365260 = 249.83kB - 467 txs
mod6: 365261 = 909.83kB - 693 txs
gernika: Still seeing: connect() failed after select(): Connection refused
thestringpuller: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: << re: philippinoization
assbot: True confessions: I wrote for an Internet content mill | Ars Technica ... ( )
gernika: Maybe the qntra node is running short of connections?
ascii_field: 'The site’s support documentation explains how it works: “First you write a normal original article. Then you make two rewrites of it. All three articles (PDF) must have the same number of paragraphs and each paragraph of each article must have about the same meaning.” This is because the end product is cut up, chopped, and changed to create even more alternative stories. In the content-producing machine
ascii_field: , the sausage is just the start of it—that's ground up and made into meatballs, meatloaf, and a million other products.'
thestringpuller: ;;isup
gribble: is down
thestringpuller: qntra has been down all day
thestringpuller: gernika ^^^
gernika: sorry, not qntra node, bitcoind node referenced in qntra article. canonical bitcoind node is a better term?
thestringpuller: you talking about the real bitcoin? or bitcoind?
ascii_field: << lolz!
assbot: Web Article 7 13 Final ... ( )
ascii_field: ^ purportedly official statement from 'hackteam'
ascii_field: (they don't appear to believe in pgp, so i cannot say if authentic)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00054551 = 8.2918 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73842 @ 0.00054667 = 40.3672 BTC [+] {2}
gernika: thestringpuller: mp's seed node listed here:
assbot: Most Serene Republic Begins Advertising Public Blockchain Seed Nodes | Qntra ... ( )
funkenstein_: <-- more nice hack story
assbot: Staged ISIS Beheading Video Hacked from McCain Staffer | Veterans Today ... ( )
ascii_field: << usg's canned response to ^
assbot: Why did victims in Islamic State beheading videos look so calm? They didn’t know it was real. - The Washington Post ... ( )
thestringpuller: ascii_field:
thestringpuller: tell me about this magic i've found
ascii_field: famous!
ascii_field: appears to be fully explained in the lined article.
ascii_field: *linked
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69400 @ 0.00053921 = 37.4212 BTC [-] {3}
funkenstein_: thestringpuller, wow that is awesome. do people use this in grav. or e&m simulations?
ascii_field: funkenstein_: mno. it's accurate enough for 3d shooter, that's more or less it
ascii_field: then again, i wouldn't put it past some chinese grad student to throw it in somewhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162100 @ 0.00054833 = 88.8843 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: ... ( )
punkman: why no title assbot
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: i'm not really happy with the removal of the rpc password generator
ascii_field: but already said this.
punkman: is back
ascii_field: i suppose mod6 and ben_vulpes ought to make the call
danielpbarron: my node is held up again, this time at height=365262
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00053508 = 25.1488 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: danielpbarron: anything about rejected blocks in the debug.log ?
danielpbarron: not that I'm aware of
danielpbarron: grep for rejected shows nothing
punkman: danielpbarron: you have any logs with a reorg?
punkman: whoever does, maybe post to mailing list
danielpbarron: yeah, this same node has reorganized in the past, but that's not the case with this latest hold up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 227100 @ 0.00055471 = 125.9746 BTC [+] {6}
kakobrekla: [20:38:58] <punkman>
assbot: [BTC-dev] updated debug_sanity ... ( )
kakobrekla: [20:39:00] <assbot> ... ( )
assbot: ... ( )
kakobrekla: [20:39:14] <punkman> why no title assbot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9584 @ 0.00055851 = 5.3528 BTC [+]
punkman: kakobrekla: 10/10 customer support, would buy again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00055941 = 21.2016 BTC [+]
jurov: and it found its way here, too
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21263 @ 0.00055874 = 11.8805 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140800 @ 0.00056568 = 79.6477 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: << myeah working on it.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 12:32:12; jurov: ;;isup
mircea_popescu: << i am never using cloudflare.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 14:43:36; fluffypony: why not just stick qntra / a mirror behind CloudFlare? it's a news site, it's not like the information is super sensitive
nubbins`: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: and the infortmation of WHO READS IT is not usg's business.
nubbins`: why not use windows for casual web browsing?
nubbins`: it's not like the etc etc
nubbins`: why not smash your dick with a hammer?
nubbins`: etc
mircea_popescu: "Please understand that you mentioned you accept "Bitcoin" as a method of payment. Some online payment companies are fairly new and inexperienced and they do not provide sufficient fraud protection to members. When we review payment methods to determine whether they are allowed on eBay, two key factors that we consider are "Security and Safety" and "Ease of use". Please do not offer this payment method."
mircea_popescu: fucktards.
mircea_popescu: "ideology" ? yeah, that's right : usg's fucking ideology.
ascii_field: ferfuxxake, direct fiefdom of paypal
ascii_field: who exactly expected to be able to use btc there
ag3nt_zer0: good morning
mircea_popescu: dude, forget this expecting.
mircea_popescu: im not setting mental limits on the basis of implicit conventions.
mircea_popescu: << myeah.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 14:57:48; asciilifeform: pogo is going nowhere until we have a mempool limit mechanism.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I didn't mean indefinitely
fluffypony: I meant whilst this is going on
mircea_popescu: if i recall this was discussed, i was spouting things like "sort the tx pool by value per byte, kick out bad txn and nodes that propose them, always offer a buttered selection to askers"
ascii_field: no, i meant what i said and i said what i meant, walrus is certain one hundred percent (tm) (r)
ascii_field: gotta evict from cache or crash
ascii_field: unbounded data structure + finite ram == barf
ag3nt_zer0: the funnies:
assbot: Philosophers Football - Monty Python's Fliegender Zirkus - YouTube ... ( )
ascii_field: we have two of these left: the block index (discussed previously, 300 byte per blk) and the mempool.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: you can set the policy to drop tx's without fees from the mempool i though
trinque: buhhh no search
trinque: so suppose I dropped a link to last night's islam thread
ascii_field: thestringpuller: not the answer to 'potentially infinite liquid shit in a finite bag'
trinque: it's a problem solved by both the WoT and building cities according to a concept of "good standing == access" not universal access for all
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i dun parse that, are you disagreeing or wut ?
trinque: cardano would be a nice device for this
trinque: you go up to some gate and do assbot-style authentication
trinque: and either enter or don't
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: was trying to point out that we need a mechanism to manage mempool on the node. just simple oldest-evict for starters.
ascii_field: rather than 'oomkill because retarded'
mircea_popescu: if we're going to do this, which is nonstandard, a) better make it good.
ascii_field: like i said for the orphans,
ascii_field: IT ALREADY DIES
mircea_popescu: there is no benefit to half-solving the problem.
ascii_field: already has the limit
ascii_field: sheer physical limit.
ascii_field: so where is this 'nonstandard.' ~ANY~ machine has finite ram, it is entirely standard.
thestringpuller: would this be first in first out type of mechanism?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41922 @ 0.00055874 = 23.4235 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: oldest tx's get evicted first for newer tx's received?
ascii_field: for starters.
ascii_field: this is closest to the default behavior (death of whole node)
mircea_popescu: so, how about, something like this : 1. pogo acquires max memory to be used for tx pool ; 2. pogo accepts txn into this until full ; 3. pogo calculates per byte value for eacxh accepted txn ; 4. pogo accepts new txn only if their per-byte value constitutes an increase to its pool ; 5. pogo keeps a score on all nodes ir EVER SAW, by IP! as to what txn it sent : -so much for sending unacceptable txn, + so much for sendin
mircea_popescu: g accepted txn. then it refuses connectioon to shit nodes. permanently. it still reads from them, but sends nothing.
ascii_field: did mircea_popescu just ask for a <=4GB db ?
mircea_popescu: this way, our nonstandard behaviour can at least be excused, nodes will continue to peer us for economic reasons, and your dream fo someday someone mining off a pogo may come closer.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field nothing wrong with keeping a finite ip db and flushing the lowest entries as needed, just like iptables works.
mircea_popescu: ideally the -so much, +so much and min_node_value are to be set in config file by user.
ascii_field: this is not a bad scheme, but - complicated
mircea_popescu: not worth doing the other one. you'll just end up isolated on the network.
ascii_field: 'why not start small, he said, offering the yoga n00b a single nail'
ascii_field: no more isolated than if you do nothing
ascii_field: and crash
mircea_popescu , master of bitesizes.
mircea_popescu: yes. that's isolated.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: briefly describe hypothesis re: why an evict-oldest mempool node would end up isolated
mircea_popescu: because you present an arbitrary fraction of the current mempool, there is no incentive for anyone to peer you.
mircea_popescu: you may either present : a) the whole mempool (current best behaviour) or b) a selected fraction (hopefully future best behaviour)
ascii_field: this is different from 'isolated.' isolated would mean that extant nodes auto-drop you
ascii_field: 'no incentive' for most of the network participants to do what they are doing - is the current situation.
mircea_popescu: i didn't mean that isolated. i just meant, "and it never amounted to anything" isolated
ascii_field: ok
ascii_field: then - yes
ascii_field hopes that no one is waiting for ~him~ to write this, is occupied with other things presently
mircea_popescu: << this is actually not bad an idea
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 15:08:39; jurov: dm-cache using 8 GB SSD would be worth trying, i will when pogos come
mircea_popescu: << eh stfu.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 15:40:48; funkenstein_: for broadcasting a TX today i would recommend, there are a few others that will get your tx to miners
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, complicated, especially due to txn chains.
ascii_field: possibly the most dangerous change yet proposed
mircea_popescu: but it is i think the first chance to actually improve on extant code by writing something since the start of this project. rather than just cutting warts off and sewing the crater together
mircea_popescu: yes.
ascii_field: i dare say the second
ascii_field: parallel verif. - also useful
ascii_field: (and approximately same complexity)
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> who exactly expected to be able to use btc there <<< once listed a casascius coin on ebay. a buyer messaged me through the site asking to pay in btc :o
mircea_popescu: ah right
ascii_field: nubbins`: as i understand, buyer can contact you and ask to pay in cocaine
mircea_popescu: o look who's back. when did you get out nubbins` ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field his point was "who expects". apparently, buyer.
ascii_field: but if you accept anything but paypal - can be thrown out of 'ebay'
ascii_field: aha
ascii_field: << consider posting some pseudocode for this, if you have a notion of how it oughta work
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 19:31:33; mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, complicated, especially due to txn chains.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: why would the network isolate you if you're dropping tx's out of the mempool?
thestringpuller: it seems this is broken, if tx's oom a nodes' mempool wouldn't this technically be a fraction of the mempool shared by other nodes with more memory?
thestringpuller: this being the default functionality
ascii_field: precisely what i said.
mircea_popescu: << you can't, and fuck your stupid mother for fucking the lousy drunk that would spring forth an attempted abortion such as yourself for EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 16:35:26; fromphuctor: hello, how can I get my information removed from
ascii_field: thestringpuller: but it is also true that most nodes presently have sufficient physical ram to hold the mempool
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the notion that bitcoin is open "to everyone" does not include fromfuctorhead above.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is open for everyone who can keep the whole thing. the whole blockchain, the whole mempool, etc.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00056844 = 24.6703 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: << o motherfucker will there be no end of this idiocy
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 16:58:35; fromphuctor: im pretty sure there's laws in place that give me the right to have that info removed
ben_vulpes: phrance!
ben_vulpes: whoa mp's getting out the banhammer
mircea_popescu: no dude, "the consumers have come to expect". pssshhh
trinque: ... and it's a beneficial service?!
trinque: for free!!
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you know that's the shared arse for everyone who comes in from, right ?
trinque: say "thank you"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86082 @ 0.00056869 = 48.954 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ascii_field on the same ip.
ascii_field: ah
trinque: ascii_field: but he banned the specific mask for that user
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> o look who's back. when did you get out nubbins` ? <<< just coming up for air 8)
ascii_field: ah i c
ascii_field: l0lz
ascii_field: imho the fella was trolling
ascii_field: he didn't claim a name, or a key, much less a signature of one with the other
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33529 @ 0.00056879 = 19.071 BTC [+]
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> nubbins`: as i understand, buyer can contact you and ask to pay in cocaine <<< i suggested to buyer we take tx off-site; he agreed. mildly surprised message filters or smth didn't get in the way
ascii_field: and readily admitted to having uploaded it himself, to sks
ascii_field: nubbins`: 'How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. but at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You have to live - did live, from habit that became instinct - in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard...'
ben_vulpes: trinque: the hsa company can't figure out their ssl cert
nubbins`: 8)
ascii_field: (tm) (r)
nubbins`: and yet here we are
ben_vulpes: trinque: and emails passwords baaack to users in plaintext
ben_vulpes: WOO
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes everyone emails passwords in plaintext. EVERYONE
mircea_popescu: it's fucking retarded.
ben_vulpes: the *stored* password
ben_vulpes: the *unsalted* *unhashed* *stored* password
nubbins`: i used to work for big insurance co
mircea_popescu: well if you email it anyway... why bother with bcrypt ?
nubbins`: called helpdesk one day with an issue
mircea_popescu: cheaper to sniff mail than to break server.
nubbins`: they asked me for my password over the phone
nubbins`: "you want me to just say it?"
mircea_popescu: and it happened to be drop table if exist dash dash ?
trinque: ben_vulpes: lawl
nubbins`: "but i work in a cubicle"
thestringpuller: ;;isup
gribble: is down
thestringpuller: damn. down all day.
trinque: that idea of opening a gate with a cardano... really fun
trinque: I can't wait to hold one in my hands
mircea_popescu: myeah.
ascii_field: waitwut
ascii_field: opening a gate ?
ascii_field: i can't wait to see all the nails folks try to pound in with this microscope.
trinque: ascii_field: was imagining a futuristic city with access controls based on WoT standing in response to chetty's comments about islam and violence
trinque: I've actually had a few dreams about such a place
thestringpuller: what if someone steals your cardano?
thestringpuller: lol
trinque: thestringpuller: same answer as if someone steals your anything
trinque: what's better, a retinal scan? lol
ascii_field: we had this thread
ascii_field: with mr ninjaspam
ascii_field: see logz.
trinque: ascii_field: which? stolen cardano?
ascii_field: aha
trinque: seems you'd have some other key elsewhere, you'd sign your cardano key
trinque: and you could perhaps sign a "my cardano was stolen" message to address thestringpuller
ascii_field: << this appears in, among other places, 'beneath a steel sky'.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 19:56:20; trinque: ascii_field: was imagining a futuristic city with access controls based on WoT standing in response to chetty's comments about islam and violence
mircea_popescu: ascii_field garage door!
trinque: ascii_field: neat
ascii_field: trinque: also not so easy. see the key revocation thread of last month.
trinque: k
trinque: in this case presumably the city itself would be controlled by someone in particular
trinque: so it is a centralized problem
trinque: *he* grants you access or does not
ben_vulpes: zhe
trinque: so there is a central point which can reject the key in the future
trinque: ben_vulpes: the lesbian dreadfort notwithstanding
ascii_field: assbotburg
ascii_field: perhaps folks who are '! downed' will slide, literally, down a chute.
mircea_popescu: cryptoguillotine ?
ascii_field: cryptodulap.
mircea_popescu: not sure i wanna see that.
nubbins`: cryptooubliette
nubbins`: hm. cryptoubliette?
ascii_field: we did that one here
ascii_field: 'coke machine'
nubbins`: bbl
thestringpuller: #b-a labeled gasenwagens?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58000 @ 0.00057034 = 33.0797 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120100 @ 0.00056091 = 67.3653 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: gernika_ it's up and down as i have the 363736 issue examined.
mircea_popescu: by now a multitude of people have copies, of that chain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25126 @ 0.00055874 = 14.0389 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: relatedly : i am reasonably satisfied the ~950 kb single tx a few days ago was trying its best to make pre 0.10 clients unable to verify the chain anymore.
ascii_field: ^ mechanism ?
mircea_popescu: it didn't actually work, obviously, but i must say without all the work the foundation put in, it probably WOULD have.
ascii_field: would love to read the logic behind this hypothesis
ascii_field: (i
ascii_field: 've been looking myself, for this)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field not fully understood yet, but it seems to exploit a buffer overflow in their own fucktarded code.
mircea_popescu: anyway, run your own .6 or .7 and see what happens.
ascii_field: i still have a 0.8, it runs
mircea_popescu: but i said 6 or 7
ascii_field: ah hm
ascii_field: BingoBoingo ^ ?
mircea_popescu: it doesn't work ALL the time either
ascii_field: broomstick only needs to shoot once
ascii_field: << waitasec, how's that work
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 20:32:01; mircea_popescu: it didn't actually work, obviously, but i must say without all the work the foundation put in, it probably WOULD have.
ascii_field: afaik i'm the only one actually running a public-facing realbitcoinotron
mircea_popescu: the stator nodes don't suffer from it
ascii_field: ah
mircea_popescu: and no, i have nfi why
ascii_field: actually i think i do
mircea_popescu: hm ?
ascii_field: we cremate orphan tx. and the 'tx spam' is sent in rapid succession, and depends on previous instances of same, and hence spends much of its life cycle as 'orphan tx'
mircea_popescu: oh
ascii_field: aha.
mircea_popescu: yeah very probable.
ascii_field does these things for actual reasonz
mircea_popescu: yeah you know what, this work actually made a difference.
ascii_field: spiffy.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi where i'd be had b-a never happened and foundation never happened and etc, trying to make sense of this situation
ascii_field: probably somewhere deep in the 2012 shitter
mircea_popescu: as it is, i'll be moving infrastructure to strator.
ascii_field will enjoy reading mircea_popescu's old node if he ever gets tired of it and prints it
mircea_popescu: *towards* i guess, is the better word
mircea_popescu: neway, needless to say, i'm actually impressed. for once world of shit averted.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113593 @ 0.00054082 = 61.4334 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: how, i must say i wonder, did mircea_popescu even persuade anyone to shovel the sheer tonnage of shit to write his soviet pdp clone 0.6
mircea_popescu: had no particular expectation to see anything like this yet, either.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it's complicated.
ascii_field: if it was written by a phriend, i would love to see him among our number here.
mircea_popescu: but the truth, in general, is that closed systems have a very short shelf life. you can get away with it for a matter of years, maybe, if you're very good at managing it. not decades.
gernika: <+mircea_popescu> by now a multitude of people have copies, of that chain. << got it. switched to another node and now syncing.
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Takes about as much time as any other "problematic" block but gets chewed through just the same
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: 0.7 ?
mircea_popescu: what machine ? what's logs say ?
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: 0.7.2 Just renumbered it to advertise as
ascii_field: incidentally, there's never been a better time to open a zoo of these
ascii_field: all known versions, etc
mircea_popescu: hm. might be too late.
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: very much so.
ascii_field: not too late, flood of crud still going strong.
mircea_popescu: the "tx spam" bs never did anything.
mircea_popescu: best i could tell anyway
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: it 'did' the 950+kB blox, what else
mircea_popescu: ah in that sense
ascii_field: aha.
mircea_popescu: nah, that block was a single tx.
mircea_popescu: and it was not even relayed (as it's not in fact relayable)
ascii_field: the one moving to/from 6-char brainwallets
ascii_field: afaik it is part of the overall crap fleet.
mircea_popescu: !up arhuaco
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118000 @ 0.00054811 = 64.677 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Ah, looks like megatx never got here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94426 @ 0.00053831 = 50.8305 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: well that'd explain it.
thestringpuller: << interesting haven't finished it tho
thestringpuller: but love the line "This compulsion means that, for the first time, the opinion of the ignorant masses (if misled, or merely divided) can actually destroy Bitcoin."
ben_vulpes: << twas my assperience
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 03:27:43; asciilifeform: and stopped
ben_vulpes: phf: didja grunt out a script or something else i could try?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11323 @ 0.00053831 = 6.0953 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: << here's the woman, and here's the tech. therefore, woman in tech.
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: any questions
mod6: !up assbot
mod6: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107850 @ 0.00053831 = 58.0567 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: don't you mean tech in women?
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: aka teledildonics?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160874 @ 0.00055702 = 89.61 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146700 @ 0.00057024 = 83.6542 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36924 @ 0.00053974 = 19.9294 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36787 @ 0.00055576 = 20.4447 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95431 @ 0.00055576 = 53.0367 BTC [+]
Adlai: straw poll here, please
Adlai: who's ever had somebody try to sell them bitcoins unsolicited?
fluffypony: everyone
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
Adlai only lost that cherry tonight
ascii_field: Adlai: not me
Adlai: aha
trinque raises hand
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2000 @ 0.00111 = 2.22 BTC
trinque: then the guy tried to give me some oddly
mats: smells like a trap
trinque: a miniscule amount
Adlai is guessing that ascii_field steers clear of bitcoin "meetups", of all their shapes and forms
trinque: mine was some scamzor from otc
Adlai: exactly. i ratted the guy out in front of the group, it was a little hilarious
ascii_field never went to anything even vaguely bitcoin-related in the flesh other than for mircea_popescu's c2 and c3
Adlai: suddenly everybody tries to buy
Adlai: ascii_field: bitcoin != Bitcoins
Adlai: shit
Adlai: but you get the idea
Adlai: one of those was a typo
ascii_field: not them, either
ascii_field: i live in wrong part of the world for this
Adlai: as though i'm in the right part!
Adlai: now it's my turn to 'lol'
ascii_field: although university of maryland did have buterin over as guest speaker, apparently, some months ago
ascii_field: i entirely missed this.
Adlai: one good thing did come of the meetup, my new Bitcoin Price Index is fees/coin
ascii_field: (they also had obama, no less than twice. also missed that. snore.)
Adlai: the question is... which percentile of "fees" is used in the calculation
Adlai: thus our answer is in fact just another question
mats: missed it? as in, you wanted to go?
ascii_field: no.
ascii_field: missed as in, was vaguely aware and didn't give a flying fuck
Adlai: please tell me it was the same event
ascii_field: dun think so
Adlai: last i heard, from the most reputable of reputables, obama was gunna "crush" bitcoin
Adlai: few days later, 300, 160, who knows what. here we are today.
Adlai goodnight
pete_dushenski: the only thing obama is gonna crush are his video game enemies in 'easy' mode.
pete_dushenski: the dude couldn't even put boots on the ground in syria, as fucking if he could do better than gavin and hearn.
mats: hey, he armed ISIS. close enough to 'boots on the ground'.
pete_dushenski: he could -maybe- throw a wrench in some up and coming social media app. maybe..
pete_dushenski: mats lol. now helping the enemy win is a victory !
pete_dushenski: because hey, can't just be losing wars for two generations straight.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35231 @ 0.00054945 = 19.3577 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: gotta find victories wherever you can. and, hell, just create them ex nihilo everywhere else.
mats: well, they weren't the enemy at the time. just 'moderates' looking for cash and weapons to fight al-Assad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75769 @ 0.00054324 = 41.1608 BTC [-]
mats: circa 2011 iirc
pete_dushenski: maybe if obama promises to pay eternal tribute to the caliphate, isis won't wipe his face in his own vomit.
mats: hard to anticipate, they've gotta take baghdad first
pete_dushenski: mats sure, in dreamlandia where anyone can be allies with the devil and then turn their back on him whenever they feel like it with no repercussions.
mats: iran and the saudis are active in the region and may crush them yet
mats: out of sheer self-interest and to return the balance of power to as it was
pete_dushenski: saudis will fall to isis.
pete_dushenski: there's little doubt of that.
mats: i doubt it.
pete_dushenski: saudis are already teetering on the bring of self-immolation post-abdullah
pete_dushenski: brink*
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48050 @ 0.00057093 = 27.4332 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: i dun seriously think that the saudis are ruthless enough nor rich enough to win this contest
trinque: and ISIS is rich enough?
trinque: how many oil fields do they have now?
pete_dushenski: a couple anyways.
pete_dushenski: but isis has a sufficiently powerful 'why' that their soldiers are cheap and oh so very cut throat
trinque: this much is true, yet
trinque checks over his shoulder
pete_dushenski: saudis don't stand for jack shit
trinque: no isis yet boss
trinque: just a lovely landscape
trinque: among other things I think whatever successes ISIS has had reflect that nobody really wants to have Iraq or Syria be their problem
pete_dushenski: and why should the middle east be anyone's problem other than that of the middle easterners ?
trinque: I am talking about middle eastern powers
trinque: I am not a scholar on the subject, but it seems as an outsider that the major factors are Saudi, Iran and Israel
trinque: those seem to be perpetually beating war drums against eachother; perhaps ISIS is a complicating factor in that situation which none want to approach lest they unbalance the former
decimation: saudis are not ruthless enough < I strongly doubt. Saudis would throw every merc in the world at someone challenging their rule
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54050 @ 0.00057227 = 30.9312 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: also they would very likely summon usg
pete_dushenski: trinque those 3, yes, plus usa currently holding down the eastern corners of the mediterranean with turkey and egypt
pete_dushenski: decimation again, only if they can afford it
pete_dushenski: it's incredibly, almost impossibly expensive to fight against an opponent as ideologically driven as isis (or b, tmsr~)
decimation: if there's a threat to saudi rule - it's their own stomachs:
assbot: Why the Saudis Are Going Solar - The Atlantic ... ( )
decimation: pete_dushenski: not really, it's quite simple, they would fall to a single marine division if on the field in open battle
decimation: however, trying to dislodge them in an occupation war is another matter
trinque: right
pete_dushenski: aha, again, the expense of occupation of syria/lebanon is more than any soi-dissant 'world power' can seem to muster.
decimation: yes, agreed
decimation: mainly because nobody can convince themselves to give enough of a shit
pete_dushenski: so battles can be won against isis, wars will be lost.
trinque: it's reasonable to say that the appetite for total war in the west... ^
trinque: right
decimation: yes, isis is much too young to expand beyond iraq/syria
decimation: in 30 years after their rule is solidified...
trinque: if what's said about their regressiveness regarding science is true, they're not going to amount to anything
pete_dushenski: it won't take a generation if the saudi's run out of oil money
decimation: aye, true
trinque: they're going to what, shout about allah and shoot hand-me-down russian weapons?
trinque: and the force of their will alone will overcome?
trinque: I don't buy it at all
pete_dushenski: trinque well, the west's 'science' is a largely (if not entirely) a lot of fluff 'epidemiology'
trinque: they're a nuisance and if they become anything more they'll all be killed
trinque: pete_dushenski: that has little to do with them ignoring the subject entirely
trinque: I bet central americans had a great deal of "will" too
pete_dushenski: i see them as being quite related, if throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
pete_dushenski: trinque sorry, you're saying that isis is a nuisance that'll be wiped out if they get too uppity ??
trinque: I am indeed.
decimation: it's political suicide in the us to commit to another full-scale middle east war, which is what is giving isis breathing room
pete_dushenski: hm. i don't underestimate them to the same degree.
trinque: pete_dushenski: I could very well see something 20 years down the line that's much different
trinque: but it would require them getting that far
pete_dushenski: isis will continue to grow, because that's what lifeforms do : they grow.
trinque: they also go extinct
pete_dushenski: so it'll start with syria/lebanon and keep going
trinque: one might speculate it will; we'll see
pete_dushenski: to saudi arabia, yemen, egypt, etc.
decimation: maybe, but if this happens it probably won't be through open battle
pete_dushenski: decimation i'm with you there.
pete_dushenski: if isis is undone, it'll be from 'multicultural' technology
pete_dushenski: from the inside out.
pete_dushenski: i don't see an external player that has the means or the will to take them down. they're no wimpy upstart. isis means business.
trinque: sure, and their ideology is based on magical thinking
pete_dushenski: as all populist ideologies must be.
pete_dushenski: hell, even the 'elite' ideologies can fall victim to dreams.
trinque: let me put it this way: if something doesn't come along that could squash an ISIS in a moment, that's on us.
trinque: they're primitive morons with weapons somebody else's war machine manufactured
trinque: sitting on oil wells they didn't drill
pete_dushenski: so what, bitcoin made the computers, chips, and internet infrastructure that it's taking over the world with ?
pete_dushenski: we're all sitting on 5-10 year old hardware. idjits would readily call this 'primitive'
trinque: I do not see the equivalence at all
pete_dushenski: what you want 'advanced' weapons like nukes ?
trinque: isis is a cargo cult thinking allah will bring them more russian or american weapons if they piss in the wind some more
trinque: they will never make anything themselves
decimation: tribalism is in the bones over there, I find it unlikely that a political entity could centralize power effectively
pete_dushenski: trinque the equivalence is in the disruptive potential
trinque: as for bitcoin, one *would* hope those working within it do understand the mechanics of the technology involved
trinque: pete_dushenski: of what
trinque: on ISIS' side
trinque: there's nothing novel or interesting about their ideology
pete_dushenski: the nation states of the middle east as we know/knew them.
trinque: mongols they are not
trinque: they're not going to build a working empire when they're done
pete_dushenski: doesn't appear to me that they're trying to build an 'empire' in the centralised sense of the term
pete_dushenski: decimation perhaps not. though if you spill enough blood...
phf: ben_vulpes: eventually, aha. i'm not even sure yet that i can repeat the process. for example part of build process is a script that chooses between gcc-4.6 and clang based on whether it's .c or .mm. the fact that the result links i think is a miracle
pete_dushenski: trinque i mean hey, if isis were going the centralised route, don't you think they'd have a king or ruler already ?
trinque: they've got that baghdadi guy
decimation: they do
assbot: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
trinque: and if they can't organize past that level, all the better
pete_dushenski: instead they have -dozens- of fiefdoms, all pledging allegiance to an ideology and a black flag
trinque: mongols had a khan
trinque: furthermore if all they can manage is guns and missiles, the non-morons that understand science can respond with defensive technology that makes that irrelevant
pete_dushenski: not necessarily
pete_dushenski: under your defensive technology is a satellite colony orbiting the earth
trinque: cities have defended themselves well against raiding hordes of morons before
pete_dushenski: ideologies will rip through the heart of whatever armour you've got.
trinque: we build them today like they're safe from all that
trinque: doesn't mean we have to
trinque: and theirs is what?
trinque: praise be to allah the space god and pass the ammunition?
trinque: come on
pete_dushenski: trinque pre-instant communication tech, sure.
pete_dushenski: protecting yourself used to be a physical issue.
trinque: and how is their ideology going to rip through my heart?
pete_dushenski: i'm not saying it will.
pete_dushenski: i'm saying that it's war.
trinque: ah well there we agree
pete_dushenski: only the losers get ripped.
trinque: I would just like to see bitcoin kill these morons too
trinque: 2015 is no place for desert gods
trinque: (unless as I said, it's outside great cryptographic walls)
pete_dushenski: well, human brains are still human brains, i'm afraid
trinque: might very well be that something like ISIS will kill a great many "westerners" in the future
pete_dushenski: and it'll take more than a generation, or even a hundred, to change our defaults
trinque: and I could still imagine a world where I don't care
pete_dushenski: trinque for sure, because those 'westerners' are a bunch of blinded sheep who could use a good raping
trinque: I had this incredibly vivid dream years ago of a city which denied access based on some mechanism (undefined in the dream) of verifying identity and relationship to those dwelling within
trinque: walls and automated weapons prevented entry by unsanctioned means
trinque: entering the gate meant being approved to do so
trinque: ancient as it gets
trinque: this is what I would like to live within someday
pete_dushenski: like babylon eh
trinque: not something where every moron can piss on my front lawn
pete_dushenski: walls 30 stories tall
trinque: indeed
trinque: and if ISIS wants to keep the outsiders busy, have at it
pete_dushenski: well as long as you don't move the middle east, you can probably get by where you are, even without the ginormous walls.
pete_dushenski: it's one thing for isis to whip their compatriots into shape, it'd be an order of magnitude more resource intensive to bother with us.istan.
trinque: usistan may fall over on its own before they come of age
pete_dushenski: federal gov may 'fall over' but the only thing most people will notice is how much lighter the weight on their shoulders is
pete_dushenski: life will go on.
trinque: heh, true enough
pete_dushenski: mebbe chinese come in to rape the blondies and suck up the minerals, maybe they can't be bothered and they leave the peoples formerly known as 'americans' to reoganise themselves
pete_dushenski: that could be along existing state lines, or regions could be smaller or larger.
pete_dushenski: hard to say, really.
pete_dushenski: anyways, i'm off. don't be surprised if this convo makes it into a post :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162697 @ 0.00056912 = 92.5941 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59332 @ 0.0005728 = 33.9854 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: ;;later tell pete_dushenski I've enjoyed when they do.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: 'BitCoin donations to the OpenBSD Foundation.' - MARC ... ( )
trinque: so don't use bitpay, guy
trinque: "Sorry for any inconvenience, this is just how these things work." << lol
mircea_popescu: derp.
BingoBoingo: ;;google Bob Beck
gribble: The public burning of Bob Beck on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: <>; The sharp friar and the golden jew discuss your options on Trilema ...: <>; "I saw, and was saddened." on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73869 @ 0.00057393 = 42.3956 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: they've decided they wanna hang out with wintel and the rest of the "good guys in their own mind" club
BingoBoingo: At least Bob Beck's financial crowd. Thing was saved by the forces of good, then the forces of Microshit came with ongoing whatever the fuck
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 287.42, vol: 10360.89110159 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 283.2, vol: 7314.37326 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 287.21, vol: 23271.55971267 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 298.0, vol: 4.75786649 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 287.816427, vol: 16983.68120000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 288.70809, vol: 36.26405777 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 280.990219008, vol: 72.01758395 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 286.913709409
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38353 @ 0.00057406 = 22.0169 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 205357 @ 0.00057561 = 118.2055 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2147 @ 0.00111 = 2.3832 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60043 @ 0.00057715 = 34.6538 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up Duffer1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10217 @ 0.00054324 = 5.5503 BTC [-]
assbot: Sorry for potato quality - Imgur ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70685 @ 0.00057736 = 40.8107 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Checking your bits ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99314 @ 0.00054324 = 53.9513 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Even today, nasa with the JPEG plumes
assbot: xkcd: Pluto ... ( )
trinque: << I am considering grabbing this thing if it doesn't look too beat-up in person.
assbot: HP DL 585 Server ... ( )
trinque: seems like a decent box for bitcoin dev and other projects
assbot: FreeBSD Code of Conduct ... ( )
trinque: price is a little oddly low
BingoBoingo: trinque: Pull the trigger
trinque: waiting on the guy's response
BingoBoingo: 24BG of RAM on an Opteron machine at that price, shit is better than Ebay
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42921 @ 0.00053831 = 23.1048 BTC [-]
gernika: BingoBoingo I paid roughly 7x for a similar configuration (new)
BingoBoingo: I know that is a fucking steal.
assbot: Content Policy update. AMA Thursday, July 16th, 1pm pst. : announcements ... ( )
cazalla: "Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen: These are very complicated issues, and we are putting a lot of thought into it." bit of a contradiction eh
trinque: eh, cowards
trinque: how's voat doing?
trinque checks
trinque: not too bad actually
BingoBoingo: Voat just has growing pains. The fat hate movement isn't the only thing carrying Voat anymore.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84048 @ 0.00054298 = 45.6364 BTC [+]
trinque: aw yeah, hp server guy replied
BingoBoingo: Sweet
trinque: claims it lived in a climate-controlled data center its whole life
trinque: probably true, given what it is
trinque: I wonder if a local tech company went under
BingoBoingo: Likely
asciilifeform: rip openbsd.
BingoBoingo contemplating blasphemy and getting a "late model" mac
asciilifeform would also say 'rip freebsd' but it died for him when it went with clang
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al: that's approx. the correct price for a machine of that type and vintage, if one buys from a local scrap dealer
asciilifeform sometimes does
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.000574 = 16.359 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'server' mobos have an annoying habit of including 'remote management' crapolade, however. caveat emptor.
trinque: can I neuter that?
BingoBoingo getting tempted into a mac mini by cheap machine spacific colo offers
asciilifeform: best neuter is for it not to be there.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: worst possible choice. plenty of boxes with identical specs costing 50-60% of what crapple wants
asciilifeform: (specs including size and mass)
trinque: seems otherwise like a good snag of amd hardware
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: probably physically smallest amd x86-64 is the 'pcengines' linked in earlier thread
asciilifeform: i have several, at $dayjob
asciilifeform: comes with schematics even.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Looking used. Trying to find hosts that take similar machines for colo at similar prices.
asciilifeform: it is about 7/8th inch tall.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: << it
assbot: PC Engines apu system boards ... ( )
asciilifeform: they also sell smaller x86 boards,
asciilifeform: (cpu soldered down on all of them)
BingoBoingo: I might start mailing some of these people about whenther they take machines smaller than mac mini at mac mini rate
asciilifeform: i esp. like the 100% open bios
asciilifeform: one of the few x86 boxes still manufactured, which supports this
asciilifeform: down sides include a total absence of video
asciilifeform: you will not be connecting a tele-kvm to this thing - unless your colo has the serial port kind
asciilifeform: also i'm not entirely certain why your colo box has to be an x86
asciilifeform: but as far as those go, this is probably the size/mass/cost champ
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well I'm looking at services like this and a few other options that go down to $25-26, but so far this one has the least objectional terms
assbot: MacStadium - Dedicated Mac Mini Hosting, Colocation, and Cloud Solutions ... ( )
asciilifeform: ugh
asciilifeform: betcha crapple subsidizes.
BingoBoingo: Would use to run many-connections bitcoin node plus services, and maybe a couple static html pages
BingoBoingo: Eh, they let you supply own box.
BingoBoingo: May try shoving pc engines in mac mini chassis
asciilifeform: they let you supply own, but probably has to be the apple
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you do the switcheroo, make sure thing has ethernet mac addr from the old unit
asciilifeform: or rather, an addr in apple's registered range
asciilifeform: (hope to not get lucky & get existing)
BingoBoingo: Seems a sensible precaution.
asciilifeform: not sure where you'd get a mobo that fits in the original case without looking odd
asciilifeform: (the jacks have to line up with the holes, no?)
BingoBoingo: Generally been pricing 2011 and earlier minis (including G4 models)
asciilifeform: ugh
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (the jacks have to line up with the holes, no?) Only eth0 jack matters... Arts&Crafts
asciilifeform: can get hosting on an old p3 (equiv. of fastest g4) for less than the quoted price
asciilifeform: with hoster-supplied box, too
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: eth0, dc in, usb for the telekvm...
BingoBoingo: If configured at home is kvm even necessary?
asciilifeform: perhaps not
BingoBoingo: Most of these services seem to have a daily charge for troubleshooting with their KVM adapters
asciilifeform: whole thing sounds scammy
asciilifeform: why colo host, to begin with ?
BingoBoingo: It does.
asciilifeform: i can think of a few cases where it makes sense, but is this one ?
BingoBoingo: Colo host to get box out of house so I don't have to see macbomination
asciilifeform: don't have to see it if you don't buy one, l0l
BingoBoingo: Also configure at home seems like a nice alternative to cpanel dedibortion or vps.
asciilifeform: that, it does
BingoBoingo: Want machine to live in datacenter, not eating home bandwidth. getting maximal bitcoind connections at min dollars
asciilifeform lulz at the memory of how never saw 'cpanel' anywhere until mircea_popescu's
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Saw at Godaddy in the past... Apparently powers their shared hosting
trinque: we (which is to say they) used it at an old shitty php job
trinque: specifically whm I guess
trinque: that was a lulzy job; worked on software for those ebay pawn shops
BingoBoingo was planning if acquired mac mini to install max ram, max sub $200 SSD, OpenBSD 5.6, Set up SSH keys, bitcoind sync, and ship
asciilifeform: << those folks have 'ideology' like a forest fire does.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 22:54:23; pete_dushenski: instead they have -dozens- of fiefdoms, all pledging allegiance to an ideology and a black flag
asciilifeform: i suppose 'combustible things must combust' is ideology then.
mod6: BingoBoingo: i was kinda thinkin the same thing, could be a market for someone to just ship a drive ready to go.
asciilifeform: << mongols were able to produce the state-of-art weapons of their time (at their prime, that is), on their own.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 22:54:38; trinque: mongols had a khan
trinque: state of the art fighting techniques too
trinque: and then held down a vast empire with a sane legal system and so on
trinque: these are a bunch of twitter-posting imbeciles with AKs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43546 @ 0.00055289 = 24.0761 BTC [-]
trinque: that's not really fair, they are also whatever's left of saddam's army
BingoBoingo: ISIS takes state of the art fighting weapons and USia spends Imperial treasure on F-35 redefining state of the art as shittier
asciilifeform: wake me up when the untermenschen can produce so much as one brass shell.
asciilifeform: on their own.
mats: plenty of war materiel and munitions for purchase
asciilifeform: mats: presently - for phree!
mats: no reason why they can't subsist on ru supply chain indefinitely
asciilifeform: while supplies last (tm)
asciilifeform: ru newz media are kinda lulzy in re: 'isis': invariably prefix with 'islamic army, the organization banned in our country, has...'
mats: NATO would also presumably be happy to sell their enemies ammo for the right price
mats: just, you know, not directly.
asciilifeform: << i'd like to know what he oughta use. to turn those coins into food, rent, mains power.
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 23:21:27; trinque: so don't use bitpay, guy
asciilifeform: dealer in dark alley ?
mats: -otc?
asciilifeform: i mean, yes, bitpay is a usg op
asciilifeform: what otc.
asciilifeform: the one that's just about entirely dead, as far as my naked eye can see ?
danielpbarron: mats> NATO would also presumably be happy to sell their enemies ammo for the right price << reminds me of Milo from Catch-22
mats: ;;book BTC
gribble: Error: Too many orders to list on IRC. Visit the web order book, to see list of orders for this item.
trinque: asciilifeform: could always accept them directly then turn into USD through the usual channels
trinque: or CAD or whatever they like best
mats: ;;book USD
gribble: Error: Too many orders to list on IRC. Visit the web order book, to see list of orders for this item.
mats: plenty of middlemen to be had for the right price as far as i can see
trinque: well I'm not sure, is there a sort of AML/KYC equivalent for donations?
mats: for the folks cashing btc, prob
trinque: if so, it plainly illustrates the degree to which these things have crept forward..
trinque: I can toss a 50 into the goodwill box anonymously, but not BTC
trinque: no one ever busted up a piss-odorous santa ringing his bell outside walmart
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i mean, yes, bitpay is a usg op << My impression is BitPay is under such constraints because born insufficiently USG, now merely avoiding a Shreming
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00053831 = 4.145 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: And all the pederasty that comes with it
danielpbarron: << confirmed. I haven't bothered to boot my 0.7.2 node back up since my power outage because it was completely wedged from this thing
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 20:32:43; mircea_popescu: anyway, run your own .6 or .7 and see what happens.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: try it now ?
danielpbarron: you want me to boot it up? I bet it will still be wedged as I haven't done anything to it
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: << if you have a usd-denominated bank account, it probably does not matter through which channels you turn btc into usd
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2015 01:55:19; trinque: asciilifeform: could always accept them directly then turn into USD through the usual channels
asciilifeform: every single movement of the bank is reported.
danielpbarron: i'm sure I can manually feed it blocks or whatever the fix is, but my node didn't need manual intervention / is currently synced
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i specifically want to see what ends up in the log
asciilifeform: as it tries to catch up
danielpbarron: you want my debug.log files?
trinque departs to pick up new puter
asciilifeform: tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log > somewhere.txt
asciilifeform: as it runs.
danielpbarron: also i've been saving up debug.log between restarts via cat .bitcoin/debug.log >> debug.log
asciilifeform: above works better
danielpbarron: yes I now see why that would be better and feel foolish for the way I had been doing it
danielpbarron: funny too because I have tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log going 24/7 but as a way of monitoring it
asciilifeform: << historical lulz
assbot: Eric Roberts: The spy who suffered - BBC News ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155114 @ 0.00054444 = 84.4503 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60536 @ 0.00053788 = 32.5611 BTC [-]
ag3nt_zer0: cause for concern? or just another wiggle-the-sore-tooth obsession?
assbot: Anti-racist mathematics - Psychology Wiki ... ( )
ag3nt_zer0: "While Western mathematicians often claim Western mathematics is universal, anti-racist mathematics and ethnomathematics scholars share the assumption that any given mathematical understanding or practice is a product of a particular culture.[4] Scholars such as C. K. Raju have advocated multicultural mathematics, in which different cultures can develop different forms of mathematics."
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: the (present-day) west's academitardia is trolling. ignore the lot of'em.
ag3nt_zer0: yes but the entertsinment!
ag3nt_zer0: heh
ag3nt_zer0: how's your day asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: << related, re: provocateurs
assbot: MI5 spy controlled UK Nazi group, files reveal - BBC News ... ( )
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: splendid, went to a kind of groceries shop where pr0l3z are not permitted (costs a hundy/yr to enter)
asciilifeform: 'costco', for u.s. folks. sorta like a meatspace 'amazon prime'
mircea_popescu: cazalla ah the mystery unravels, they wanted the guy as ceo so as to buy some legitimacy for something stupid they want to do.
ag3nt_zer0: whats a pr013? proletariat?
mircea_popescu: in other news : i am satisfied that the 363730 fork and the 363730-363736 dead chain contain nothing remarkable from a "hey guise they switched out the blokchanin" perspective. so i'm letting this rest.
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: hard to describe unless you live here.
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: the 'offensively poor' as described in mircea_popescu's articles.
asciilifeform: and the accoutrements that go with them (blatantly recycled food, tabloids, lottery crapolade, etc)
mircea_popescu: iirc the term was lumpen
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was largely empty, iirc !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it! lumpens.
mircea_popescu: as in lumpenproletariat
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: but these have somewhat different flavours in different places.
mircea_popescu: of their time (at their prime, that is), on their own. << in no way did they do this. they merely went around with a horde of gypsies, chinese, etc. heck, the siege of byzantium used a hungarian cannonmaster.
mircea_popescu: in this sense, the few captive "us trainers" they have work exactly like the mongols'
asciilifeform: turks
asciilifeform: hungarian cannonmaster, siege, -- turks
mircea_popescu: <mats> NATO would also presumably be happy to sell their enemies ammo for the right price << god knows romania has been doing it for a decade straight.
asciilifeform: but point taken. there is actually a mega-lulzy ru film about a captive ru derp used as 'computermaster' by chechens
ag3nt_zer0: it would be cool if readers in this group had a "Recommended readings" list or something... that would be awesome actually
mats: costco is great
ag3nt_zer0: well, I would love it at any rate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80787 @ 0.00054878 = 44.3343 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mats: i kinda wonder how many subscribers are paying not to see the lumpens
asciilifeform: rather than for the 2 percent off chumpatronics
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'costco', for u.s. folks. sorta like a meatspace 'amazon prime' << used to shop at their equiv in ro. "selgros".
mats: dunno, i see plenty of lumpens coming in for rx and alcohol
danielpbarron: ag3nt_zer0,
assbot: ... ( )
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: php got Eulora running on OSX... did he do anything different than is on the wiki?
mircea_popescu: iirc he updated the wiki to reflect his experience.
mats: they can't exclude plebs for those particular purchases i believe
asciilifeform: mats: the one i went to had a bouncer.
asciilifeform: no photo card - no enter.
mats: lol
asciilifeform: also no credit cards, but 'amex'
mircea_popescu: the romania version requires you to have a corp registered
mats: really? no MC/Visa?
ag3nt_zer0: I was following then got all paranoid and been stuck on researching what GCC is, whether or not it can compromise system, and whether this is all an elaborate scam to get my non-existent bitcoins
ag3nt_zer0: haha
asciilifeform: mats: aha. nope
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 gcc is the basic compiler. your kernel was compiled in it.
mats: never seen one like that. but i have been tempted to get a 'costco amex', the rates are good and amex has historically had great customer service
mats: and i hear their entire back-end is mostly paper
asciilifeform: mats: the clerk informed me (when collecting my hundy) that their amex thing will vanish next year.
danielpbarron has amex
asciilifeform: leaving hell knows what, if anything
ag3nt_zer0: danielpbarron: thanks!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mats: aha. nope << Other cards still work if processed as "debit" rather than "credit"
mod6: so i've got the two binaries recompiled, not stripped. not exactly sure what i'm looking for in here. doing a diff with objdump.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha
assbot: tootie comments on Content Policy update. AMA Thursday, July 16th, 1pm pst. ... ( )
mod6: i have serached forward to SSL
mats: that sounds dicey. wouldn't want to input a PIN at their POS
asciilifeform: iirc they also take old-fashioned money.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's a miracle of fiat makingall sorts of distinctions where same accounts use many different payment network messes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the operative distinction is 'no chargebacks', i think
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's the terms of chargebacks more often
BingoBoingo: fiat is weird
danielpbarron prefers to use cash whereever possible so as to give merchant the option of keeping it "under the table"
mats: asciilifeform: is there a repository on the internets somewhere for windows symbol files (not Windows Symbol Server)?
asciilifeform: mats: not afaik
asciilifeform: but if exists, probably .ru
asciilifeform: try yandex.
mats: i'm looking for a pdb to 'vwififlt.sys', for an intel wifi card i believe
mats: ok
asciilifeform: i can't think of a reason to suspect that this was ever public, but doesn't hurt to look.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65888 @ 0.00053749 = 35.4141 BTC [-] {2}
ag3nt_zer0: Today I was looking at LoperOS and one of the things I read was his article about the kill switch... searched the logs for commentary but didn't find too much. But I thought maybe I had read something addressing it on Trilema... is that right?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19362 @ 0.00053467 = 10.3523 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: i don't recall mircea_popescu ever devoting a whole article to specifically that one. his position, iirc, is 'satoshi lost the keys'
asciilifeform: why this was - i can't recall. might like to ask him.
BingoBoingo: <mats> dunno, i see plenty of lumpens coming in for rx and alcohol << Rules for this happen on a state-by-state basis. Normally the "shame" keeps all but saviest lumps out
ag3nt_zer0: was Vorhees correct in his assertion that the study was "fatally flawed" for not accounting for numerous "ewallets" being strung to one address?
BingoBoingo: <ag3nt_zer0> was Vorhees correct in his assertion that the study was "fatally flawed" for not accounting for numerous "ewallets" being strung to one address? << at the time likely in part
decimation: re: costco amex < yeah I posted about this awhile ago. turns out amex didn't want to 'make a deal' to keep costco, and instead steer their business toward servicing poor folks at walmart
asciilifeform: decimation: this is doubly lulzy because amex is the 'pay to play' cc issuer
decimation has costco amex, will drop when replaced next year
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah it is lulzy. I've heard from some small time merchants that amex dropped their transaction fees below visa/mc
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: hard to argue that ~coins that never move~ are 'e-wallets behind one address'
decimation: they know a huge chunk of their business comes from rich folks with costco amex cards
decimation: asciilifeform: also somewhat little known about costco amex: you can walk in with your annual refund check and they will pay you in cash
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: could be wrong but I thought he was addressing the tx volume with that statement
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: the 'atomic bomb' is - now, as when i wrote the piece- -- the mega-holdings under a sole key, which never move.
asciilifeform: this bomb is there, whether anyone wants to talk about it or not, and may - or may not - explode one day
asciilifeform: one might suppose that its existence is 'priced into the market' somehow.
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: oh that was you... very enjoyable reading btw...
decimation: asciilifeform: all that early btc is probably offset by the big chunk that has been lost forever
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: the paper referenced in the article, however, has nothing to do with me
BingoBoingo: So Iran nuclear deal... Only actual impact is Persian agricultural goods pricing Israeli agricultural goods out of the market?
asciilifeform: decimation: thing is, nothing can ever be proven 'lost forever'
decimation: true.
asciilifeform: one, or none, of those keys - may turn up.
decimation: same with the 'satoshi horde'
asciilifeform: speaking broadly, of all of'em.
mod6: well, at least `objdump -T bitcoind` shows: objdump: bitcoind-woNoShared: not a dynamic object \ DYNAMIC SYMBOL TABLE: \ no symbols
mircea_popescu: sounds legit.
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: do you still consider the bitcoin-p option as viable?
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: it wasn't especially viable then. and after adoption as official usg policy in a mildly perverted form, i can't think of who might voluntarily work with such a thing today
asciilifeform: other than the moles
asciilifeform: i certainly have no interest in it now.
asciilifeform: was mainly a gedankenexperiment, of somehow attaching wot ratings to coin in a permanent way.
ag3nt_zer0: "adoption as official usg policy in a mildly perverted form" << via buterin's waterfall?
asciilifeform: nah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 232300 @ 0.00055483 = 128.887 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: 'red/white-listing'
asciilifeform: see hearn
decimation: asciilifeform: did you see the lulzy quote:
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: til that if you chown public_html away from apache squirrelmail fails to function anymore
mircea_popescu: all this logic...
BingoBoingo: In other news, apparently parts of the US can make actual cheese
decimation: asciilifeform: you should try 'wegmans'
trinque: if the seller is to be believed, this is the old server... LOL?!
mod6: 475M bitcoind-woNoShared.s << lol
BingoBoingo: lol, take it trinque
asciilifeform: decimation: there's no shortage of this kind of thing, as i understand
trinque: BingoBoingo: I did!
BingoBoingo: Nice trinque
trinque: alright, so how do we find the govt-grade malware embedded in this thing's mobo?
trinque: asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: trinque: l0l
mod6: <+trinque> if the seller is to be believed, this is the old server... LOL?! << wat srsly?
mircea_popescu: no but i like how he thinks
asciilifeform: trinque: at least do it the honour of preserving the stray bits on the hdds
trinque: certainly
trinque: though it's been wiped by the owner in between me and
trinque: got 8 scsi drives though, so maybe there are goods to be found
asciilifeform: a local scrap dealer i will not presently name, sells retired usg contractors' boxes, often with whole shebang still in.
mircea_popescu: in other news,
assbot: ... ( )
mod6: let's see if i can break diff...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hmmpppfffmf!
decimation: asciilifeform: lol they don't wipe drives?
asciilifeform: apparently not.
asciilifeform: (firms that actually go under, will often leave intact 'fossils' of themselves)
decimation: too bad you don't have such goods for smbx
asciilifeform: decade+ too late
asciilifeform: quite possibly others - do
asciilifeform: i've said it before, and will say again - smbx is a dead end. i will not maintain crapcode that mit undergrads wrote in 1979.
asciilifeform: in all caps, no less.
asciilifeform: it is educational - yes.
trinque: << tramp stamp
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: building new things on it? even if usg were not getting in the way? not so appealing imho
asciilifeform: (for completeness, i will note that i will not maintain code mit undergrads wrote in '89. or '99. or '09. or at all.)
BingoBoingo: Anyone as of yet spot my OpenBSD 0.7-ish build in the wild. Returns version for the time being
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm still burning to learn why you're maintaining 0.7
asciilifeform: if it's no secret
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Build on OpenBSD with flags I use and missing from 0.5.x atm like getpeerinfo
BingoBoingo: Also last pre-Hearnia release
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'getpeerinfo' isn't so hard. consider contributing a patch ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: working on understanding it first
BingoBoingo: Will likely get actual minrelaytxfee patch in first
BingoBoingo: turns out in original I had helpfile line wrong
decimation: asciilifeform: the most interesting part to me are the silicon design tools
asciilifeform: i specifically asked dks for those
asciilifeform: he (unsurprisingly) refused
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: could easily be the only part of the corp that's worth something on the open market
decimation: they might be shitware, but could be the nucleus of non-winblows designware
asciilifeform: nothing that existed and worked in '86 could really pass as shitware by today's standards.
decimation: yeah, good point
decimation: everything had to work and not be bloatware
asciilifeform: a toolchain that works ~without even a part per billion of microshit~ is pure plutonium, plain and simple
asciilifeform: by today's lights.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you sometimes phantasize about locking a group of promising young grads on an deserted island with only circa 1985 tools?
asciilifeform: nah just self
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: what do i need the derps for ?
asciilifeform: to cook my dinner, i suppose
decimation: staff
decimation: they could be human macros
asciilifeform: would almost rather cook own dinner, and not have to deal with derps in any capacity.
asciilifeform: this is one of the ways i differ from mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> to cook my dinner, i suppose << Janatorial duties
trinque: I'd much rather automate things than have help
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: if anything, the turdalicious computer systems we have today are a consequence of cheap labour.
asciilifeform: why engineer anything, when a bottomless supply of monkeys with 'duct tape' can be had.
trinque: as if to drive the point home, some fucking drunk bum is hollering
decimation: asciilifeform: can shape desired object out of bondo?
asciilifeform: 'bondo, sanded to perfection' (mr mold)
trinque: cannot find a single mention on the web for
trinque: maybe it was an internal hostname
trinque: however I do find mention of these model HP servers being donated

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