asciilifeformtherealbitcointrinqueagriculturalsupremacyspykedtrilemaalethepedia
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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


TomServo: Sorry, I had to step away. I've rebuilt w/ v99996k and am seeing the correct max_locks.
TomServo: Still have the original build dir if that is any help.
TomServo: Back up and running but no joy yet. Is unwedging unlikely?
mircea_popescu: it should unwedge in a coupla hours or so.
TomServo: cool.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389383 << this is spiffy
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 22:09:55; phf: asciilifeform: check it http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition.png
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389731 << quite
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 02:44:42; mircea_popescu: for the other thing, no. it promotes this anti-computing, anti-intellectual, outright evil view of software being something that is given the user, like an item, rather than the correct view of software being a command given to the computer.
asciilifeform: signed binary can be contemplated when there is simply no escape (e.g., firmware image, compiler bootstrap) but otherwise entirely braindamaged
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56400 @ 0.00056275 = 31.7391 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402 l0l
assbot: Mount efivarfs read-only · Issue #2402 · systemd/systemd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsPAVX )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.00055816 = 20.2054 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: b. n.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell cazalla hey you
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski 'hysterical raisins'!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389453 << let me tell you, the look of astonishment, disbelief, and 'omg my priors' on $admingurl's face when i told her i valued publishing the ssl piece under my own name so highly that no terrestrial rag could afford to buy it from me was udderly priceless
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:10:49; mircea_popescu: ie, infantile delusions of sovereignity through "privacy". this doesn't work. sovereignity behaves publicly and with impunity. that is the fucking point.
ben_vulpes: saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.
ben_vulpes: oh phf this is lovely
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389544 << i would also dearly like to hear about the setups people have in place for hacking on this codebase
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:11:50; mod6: it doesn't scale obviously for everyone to have these issues. for my own sanity, we need to make it so that a guy just basically does one thing and then it builds.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform in particular
ben_vulpes: mod6 and trinque as well
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389171 << i have floor-to-ceiling mirrors, on which i use expos liberally for maths lessons for the girl and alphabet lessons for the kid
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:58:18; ascii_butugychag: with ink markers
ben_vulpes: but black is the only acceptable dry-erase color.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388975 << a million goddamn fucking times this
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 18:58:55; ascii_butugychag: the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388910 << and to think i was trying to gently guide the keyid in question to enlightenment
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 18:31:10; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it bothered me that polarbeard apparently does not yet fully grasp that every line he writes is a unit of ~work~ for other people to do.
ben_vulpes: first: node.js. second: "naw, vpatches are for faggots". third: 2.5kloc patch degendering reference implementation log statements.
ben_vulpes: i am unconvinced that the six months have been paid, or that if they have any impression has been made.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00055816 = 4.8281 BTC [-]
punkman: http://dpaste.com/3AGX101 that plog library in single .h file after some crud-snips
assbot: dpaste: 3AGX101: plog.h single file ... ( http://bit.ly/1VwCzt3 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @ 0.00055794 = 40.9528 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6279 @ 0.00055821 = 3.505 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00055939 = 21.3687 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00056046 = 9.752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 221850 @ 0.00056194 = 124.6664 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98900 @ 0.00056358 = 55.7381 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: Has Gavin really been turned into kid who eats glue in class? Cause he really seems that way when he says stuff like:
thestringpuller: "Gavin: ... that's another form of centralization that I find much more worrying than network security. If the only entities participating are only high-net worth people, then those are pretty easy to get at and control."
thestringpuller: Yes cause people like mircea_popescu are so easy to control.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00056263 = 6.3015 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: The SEC tried that you big dummy. Go back to MIT and continue to eat glue.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00056403 = 18.1618 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36950 @ 0.00056468 = 20.8649 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73668 @ 0.00056545 = 41.6556 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23591 @ 0.00056555 = 13.3419 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155105 @ 0.00056605 = 87.7972 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16070 @ 0.00056607 = 9.0967 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179230 @ 0.00056735 = 101.6861 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58015 @ 0.00056805 = 32.9554 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76203 @ 0.0005695 = 43.3976 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: http://www.economist.com/news/business/21688871-china-wants-become-superpower-semiconductors-and-plans-spend-colossal-sums
assbot: Explicit cookie consent | The Economist ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEwGzJ )
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller idiots actually moved to 100% discussing what i say, STILL can't fucking say my name ?
mircea_popescu: seems the matter of control is squarely resolved in the field. mp can get to anyone in usg, to anything to them he damned well pleases. so it goes.
mircea_popescu: !up AKWAnalytics
mircea_popescu: !up kimowski
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389782 << dude what in carnation are you on about. conde nast and money ?! wut ? 100k is their yearly budget for all of jezbel, you plan to churn out 10k attention whoring, vaguely concern trolling 500word pieces ?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 06:16:40; ben_vulpes: saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.
mircea_popescu: !up Frankie8
mircea_popescu: !up aknix
mircea_popescu: !up eamonnw
mircea_popescu: !up itkin-
mircea_popescu: !up kefkius
mircea_popescu: !up Ripchord
mircea_popescu: !up villan_
mircea_popescu: !up wpalczynski
mircea_popescu: check it out, it's new guy day over at #b-a farms!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39450 @ 0.00056679 = 22.3599 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389784 << you know, ~he~ wrote his own lispy v.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 06:22:15; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389800 << nb, turns out only like 600 or so.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 07:12:25; punkman: http://dpaste.com/3AGX101 that plog library in single .h file after some crud-snips
mircea_popescu: i had archive.is preserve the dpaste just in case anyone wants it after it expires. assbot has the link.
kimowski: hi
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389822 << they can afford it. unlike the us.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 13:27:06; punkman: http://www.economist.com/news/business/21688871-china-wants-become-superpower-semiconductors-and-plans-spend-colossal-sums
mircea_popescu: how goes ?
mircea_popescu: "so as to cease being dependent on foreign supplies." the chinese dream since forever. and they'll get it, too.
kimowski: 19s4DPDAw6F6nkjbUX1Rywb7vnjtGxdFX6
kimowski: script?
mircea_popescu: wut ?
AKWAnalytics: hello #bitcoin-assets. MP, thank you for voice. Cheers.
mircea_popescu: and who might you be AKWAnalytics ?
AKWAnalytics: Just some guy. I need to verify ident as AKWAnalytics. My real name is Adam Wyatt.
mircea_popescu: nice to meet you.
AKWAnalytics: Likewise.
mircea_popescu: "In the government’s earlier efforts to boost domestic manufacturing of solar panels and LED lamps, it spread its largesse among a lot of local firms, resulting in excess capacity and slumping prices. This time it seems to be concentrating its firepower on a more limited group of national champions. For instance, SMIC of Shanghai is set to be China’s champion “foundry” (bulk manufacturer of chips designed by ot
mircea_popescu: hers). And HiSilicon of Shenzhen (part of Huawei, a maker of telecoms equipment) will be one of a select few champions in chip design.
mircea_popescu: Most intriguing of all, Tsinghua Unigroup, a company spun out of Tsinghua University in Beijing, has emerged in the past year or so as the chosen champion among champions, a Chinese challenger to the mighty Intel. Zhao Weiguo, the firm’s boss, started out herding goats and pigs in Xinjiang, a remote province in north-western China, to where his parents had been exiled in the 1950s, having been labelled as dissidents.
mircea_popescu: After moving to Beijing to study at the university, Mr Zhao made a fortune in electronics, property and natural resources, before becoming chairman and second-largest shareholder (after the university itself) at Tsinghua Unigroup."
mircea_popescu: talk about the chinese dream.
mats: moar arm garbage incoming
mircea_popescu: oya.
mircea_popescu: im rather curious what their strategic choice will be to unseat intel.
mircea_popescu: i'd imagine they'd opt for "countless multitude"
mircea_popescu: so arm.
mats: pls no
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00056678 = 29.0191 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148072 @ 0.00056276 = 83.329 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: why not ? will be great. lumbering chinese golem strong enough to fracture nato, force whatever remnants are actually worth saving into #b-a, crush the rest into alabama.
mircea_popescu: this actually played out once before and it was epic.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389866 << correct. of pNohe, tablet, etc. rubbish.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 14:08:37; mircea_popescu: i'd imagine they'd opt for "countless multitude"
asciilifeform: NOT workstations.
asciilifeform: and guess what - they PAY THE FUCKIN BRITISH for 'license' for arm!
asciilifeform: (it blew me away also when i learned this)
asciilifeform: not ONLY do they use the foreign devil's masks, complete with backdoor turds, but PAY.
asciilifeform: and loongson co. PAID for mips license ! and began using american mask, whole. i found this out and lost all interest because wtf.
asciilifeform: that's the thing with orcs, they are very easily bought.
asciilifeform: some cn politburo moron's daughters were admitted to princeton, or the like, in exchange for this 'strategic genius move'
asciilifeform: almost certainly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it happens to be the correct strat for the table.
mircea_popescu: and they'll get some bonus from redditard going "oh, this will make chips like 3d printable!11"
asciilifeform: which table? to be nato's mineral whore while paying for the privilege ?
mircea_popescu: you know on the long term the whore wins.
asciilifeform: i dun see it
asciilifeform: wake me up when an arm is designed on an arm workstation. anywhere on the planet.
asciilifeform: and when the chip masks are also laid out by arm cluster.
mircea_popescu: which is why the prisons are full of orcs with "booze and women put us here" rather than the other way around
mircea_popescu: no idea where this mineral idea came from, but if you look on the net china is an importer of minerals. be it canadian oil or euro gold, they mostly buy.
asciilifeform: these aren't minerals in the usual sense.
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: speaking of pb, rare earths, and the like.
mircea_popescu: they're getting a lot of mileage out of the rare earths.
mircea_popescu: much moreso than say saudis are getting out of their oil.
asciilifeform: re: arm, every few yrs i get an attack of the temptation to build a new workstation, and it never happens, and probably never will. would dearly love to buy something nato-free, wouldja tell me ~where~ ?
asciilifeform: (and if it takes 100 hours to build motherfucking trb, it is NOT a workstation!)
mircea_popescu: sure. i'll send the list to your cardano device!
asciilifeform: l0lz
mircea_popescu: im actually curious which happens first, trb hardware delivery or cn hardware delivery.
punkman: asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out lately, might eventually have a workstation
asciilifeform: i always found it interesting that cn can not only not design own intel substitute, but cannot even ~produce shit copy~
asciilifeform: punkman: they are rubbish, every single one i ever saw. PLUS i'm not interested in nato arm !
asciilifeform: which is EVERY SINGLE ONE EVER made
mircea_popescu: you know what michael famously said ?
mircea_popescu: "i always found it interesting turks can not only not design own greek fire, but can't even produce shit copy!"
mircea_popescu: just as teh cannons were blaring.
asciilifeform: iirc they could not even use it when found
mircea_popescu: quite so.
asciilifeform: but actually i think mircea_popescu is right, we will have a 'triumph of the cockroaches' situation
mircea_popescu: it's the correct strategy for the table.
asciilifeform: 'plebe does not need to compile anything'
punkman: they wouldn't really sell a lot of bootleg-intels. shit ARM copy does power the megatons of phones though.
asciilifeform: punkman: correct, nobody gives a damn about workstations
mircea_popescu: when man fell asleep drunk, the molds get the food.
asciilifeform: but if intel were somehow to cease to exist, cn et al would feel the heat.
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: cn has made a career out of an inability to feel the heat.
asciilifeform: at that point, no arm either, just plow and kalash manufacture.
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda curious if they're in for another great leap forward actually
mircea_popescu: so far they were fortunate to get very liberal minded leadership
mircea_popescu: the ru "90yos get together to decide which 70yos should retire" thing in full swing, but producing much less spew than the ru version did
asciilifeform: possibly same spew but does not make it over the ocean ?
mircea_popescu: i do have some (limited) microphones in there tho
asciilifeform: cn is historically a champ at absorbing own spew
mircea_popescu: notice incidentally how isis isn't making a single move in THAT direction.
mircea_popescu: why not bomb nanking ? oh...
mircea_popescu: because they're US puppets. riiiight.
mircea_popescu: whole fucking thing's driven by china and they don't even have to do anything.
mircea_popescu: in other news, oldest txn in mempool ? first seen jan the 25th, usual 14.7kb crud with 0.00015 fees.
mircea_popescu: this faux "use" of bitcoin capacity has been ongoing for close to a year now.
asciilifeform: i will l0l to death when i find out that mircea_popescu's tx debugger was ~also~ lisp-based
mircea_popescu: and they are getting included, and basically EVERYONE is stuck storing 14.7kb in exchange for a one time payment of nothing at all in btc or about 5 cents to a third party
mircea_popescu: it's fucking ridiculous. the current cost of 14.7kb is something like
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 100/1000000000 * 14.7
gribble: 1.47e-06
mircea_popescu: so basically, if 10k people store the blockchain, it takes just as much in hard drive costs to store the damned txn as the miners get for including them.
asciilifeform: i don't recall anybody (other than that lukejr fella) crying when s.dice was doing this.
mircea_popescu: and this is no fancy sort of setup with raids and backups and whatnot. just man and his single cpu single hdd playstation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually the whole power ranger array threw a hissy fit, started bitching about censoring txn and whatnot,
mircea_popescu: i had to publicly bitchslap them and privately threaten burning and pillage to get them to shut the fuck up already.
mircea_popescu: but THAT was not only an economic activity - it was the only economic activity in bitcoin at the time.
mircea_popescu: this inept jockeying and pointless us-style politics bs...
asciilifeform: this i recall, pretty much nothing else yet worked
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform even played, once, on s.dice !
mircea_popescu recalls the times when provisioning a bitcoin node came with "just set quota 100 gb or something, it'll never get there".
asciilifeform: l0l aha
mircea_popescu: now i can't even buy SSDs - admitting i somehow wanted to - because lol what, sub tb space ?!
asciilifeform: i just got a tb ssd in
mircea_popescu: and even the current state of the art spindle drives... they won't last for ever. that'll be an interesting bitcoin-fs application
mircea_popescu: properly spanning volumes.
asciilifeform: incidentally there is a peculiar fact about the supply line for those. just about all of the retail vendors here in washingtonistan... ration them
mircea_popescu: leftover from the crisis days i imagine.
mircea_popescu: because that's how bureaucracy goes in and then never leaves.
asciilifeform: we needed half a dozen 1tb ssd last year at $plant and had to buy from that many vendors.
mircea_popescu: wtf is this inept shit anyway ?
mircea_popescu would have never bought. "sell me the half dozen or go to hell."
asciilifeform: the folk rumour is that somehow there is an agreement where 'cloud' turdfarms get first dibs
mircea_popescu: this is illegal and you have standing to fucking sue.
asciilifeform: and any reseller found to be selling freely to plebes, will get to pay retain rates to samsung itself
asciilifeform: sure as fuck
asciilifeform: perhaps we can win five cents a head like the paypall class action just did
mircea_popescu: "your honor, i tried to buy a hdd and they refused to sell me. vendor told me they have an illegal arrangement to promote the business interests of Amazon cloud services. I want 100 dollars in liquidated damages and 10bn in punitive damages kthx."
asciilifeform: why feed the lawyers.
mircea_popescu: you just file that, and let the good times roll in.
asciilifeform: they roll in. for lawyers.
mats: lol
mircea_popescu: just file an' see.
asciilifeform: anyway, as with the almost 100 year philips light bulb cartel, nobody who gives a fuck has any proof, nobody with proof - gives a fuck, etc.
mircea_popescu: eh, proof. you ever heard of discovery ?
mircea_popescu: they provide teh proof.
asciilifeform: proof that would get a law firm interested, is what i was thinking
mircea_popescu: you can file yourself.
asciilifeform: this requires time & money.
mircea_popescu: like 40 bucks or so iirc.
mircea_popescu: 65, something like that.
asciilifeform: and dance in the court yourself also?
asciilifeform: why not mircea_popescu do it ?
mircea_popescu: i don't live there nor have i yet run into the problem.
mircea_popescu: i do sue people that get in my way, tho.
mircea_popescu: at any rate, the plan's very simple, go to large nat'l retailer, load half a dozen disks, when the cashier refuses to sell them sucker punch him, get the police report to say he wouldn't sell you the drives, pay the whatever it is to have punched a dude and settle for whatever coupla mil they're willing to pay to avoid discovery.
mircea_popescu: your cut should be more or less the coupla mil, minus cab fare.
asciilifeform: afaik this is only at online retailers, physical shops simply charge 100-200 usd more
asciilifeform: and don't have the problem
mircea_popescu: if what you mean is that large buyers get volume discounts, well doh ?
asciilifeform: nono
asciilifeform: 'amazon' et al just have narrower margins.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00056819 = 8.6365 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: eyy, mod6 so i just spun up v.pl on a new box and despite wget not being installed v.pl still claims successful sync
mod6: um...
mod6: oh, defect i guess?
mod6: i'll have to check it out. thanks for letting me know.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056772 = 8.5726 BTC [-]
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6 and trinque as well << hacking the codebase? << I just build the statically linked bin with rotor via the build-bitcoind script that everyone uses.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389788 << what would ben_vulpes like to know ?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 06:24:52; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform in particular
mod6: i do a lot of testing etc. often if I'm actually going to change a line of code, i'll press out a seperate branch call it 'foo', go in there copy a & b, then make changes in b. make a vpatch. drop it in my live bitcoin branch, rebuild with the rotor. bunch of stuff.
ben_vulpes: (reminds me a bit of the "check every return code" naggum line)
mod6: i just re-read what I typed there (sorry, just woke up, slept like the dead), and i don't mean to make it sound like a single line, even if sometimes it is! i just make the changes i need, the most minimal changes possible, then drop 'em in and see.
asciilifeform: speaking of pc parts, found http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/15893/Novyj_korpus_Zalman_TNN500AF_ili_1_kilogramm_tishiny.html << ancient ru picture review of infamous ~entirely motherfucking silent~ pc chassis. good illustration of what this means. entirely unobtainable today at any price.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO1VDy )
mod6: but, i typically don't hack straight on the built trb, ususally on a separate branch.
mod6: i use the built thing to test my code changes and other config changes.
asciilifeform: ftr i still use my original rotor build scripts.
asciilifeform: i don't need or want the www loading stuff for anything.
asciilifeform: in fact i think it ought to be abolished and replaced with pressed silver cd.
asciilifeform: it isn't as if the dependencies will EVER change !
asciilifeform: re: the hardware pr0n link earlier, it is a good example of what i call an ~iridium toilet~ - as DISTINCT from a golden toilet, it is a device that is build with 1) price is no object 2) NOT FOR showing off and playing idiot tlp rolex status games.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> in fact i think it ought to be abolished and replaced with pressed silver cd. << im not sure how to build this excatly. this is part of what we wanna talk about next week.
mod6: not only with the makefiles, but are we actually thinking about distributing all the deps ON CD?
asciilifeform: mod6: at the very least, all of the stuff presently loaded from www, could easily go on cd
asciilifeform: yes all of the deps
asciilifeform: why the hell not ?
asciilifeform: there is what, a few 100M of them ?
mod6: just a lot of 'em .
asciilifeform: half a dozen
mod6: yeah... there's a handful. i dunno, makes me nervous.
asciilifeform: and loading them from the jungle every time, not nervous ?
ben_vulpes: tres nervous.
mod6: the whole thing maybe lol.
ben_vulpes: we should really do a bsd, and sell the discs for a bitdime each.
mod6: ok, we can revisit this next week.
ben_vulpes: or rather, i'd like that.
asciilifeform: i will laugh my self ~to death~ if it turns out that wget was 0day'd
mod6: ben_vulpes: heheh. its more like: here's the source code, see what you can do with this. unless .1, then you can have CD and volla!
mod6: we're totally not going to do that btw.
asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a battlefield trb oughta be built on a virginal airgapped box.
asciilifeform: this means cd with known bits.
mod6: someone asked me why I don't create vpatches of the changes to V.
mod6: and that's basically because it's not "ready" per-se.
mod6: maybe in 6 months to a year, then we'll be in a spot where it's in a more hardened form. takes some time, and people using it to flush some of the shit out.
jurov: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/673724/d9809e674cde21df/ emacs does *what*?
assbot: Removing support for Emacs unexec from Glibc [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO2Zr2 )
jurov: "the Emacs unexec() function that converts the running program into a new executable."
asciilifeform: jurov: this is sorta like 'save-lisp-and-die' in the cl world
jurov: but to hardwire it in the build process and C library?
mod6: oh yeah, and i remember now...
asciilifeform: 'Stallman, though, thought that it would be better discussed in private: "This a sensitive issue; it is best to discuss it without an audience."' << sad.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> why the hell not ? << because i tried to kinda sorta do this already... buildroot is hardcoded to download (rsync) all of its deps and stuff it needs from net. we'd have to "hack" our own buildroot.
mod6: heh, kinda like V.
asciilifeform: it is necessary.
asciilifeform: and i will note that ~my~ v load NOTHING from the net.
asciilifeform: and i still see this is as the Right Thing.
asciilifeform: it is the responsibility of the operator to feed the hopper.
asciilifeform: how would you feel about a table saw that walks around looking for what to saw ?
mod6: i guess v99995 could rip all that stuff out. certainly would condense the code a bit.
ben_vulpes: i'm with stan, fwiw.
mod6: okie dokie.
ben_vulpes: a small step to the disc would be to slam buildroot, openssl, bdb and boost into a tar.gz and stick it on the website.
ben_vulpes: idem for the vpatches.
mod6: not sure i follow there, what'd be the techincal purpose of that?
ben_vulpes: rather than including procurement of deps in the build scripts, force users to actually download the deps themselves.
TomServo: or a nob to include a local path, else procurement?
mod6: TomServo: hey! did you ever get unwedged?
TomServo: Negative. Was just going to ask if there is any value in keep it..
TomServo: keeping it running*
mod6: i would 100% start over, including in your .bitcoin dir.
TomServo: will do
mod6: it doens't take long to pass that spot anyway.
mod6: alright, thanks, let us know.
jurov: <punkman> asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out... << you really want like, 64 shitty cores on the workstation instead of 4x x86?
asciilifeform: jurov: i want a non-nato computer.
asciilifeform: is this hard to understand ?
asciilifeform: and yes, this means arm doesn't cut it even if somehow 500x faster.
jurov: i asked punkman, not you
asciilifeform: arm is a british design.
asciilifeform: ok
jurov: and i don't have anything to say about non-nato computers3
phf: ben_vulpes: so actually inside the patch hunks are grouped by files, what i was referring to as hunks are actually per file hunk groups. so in other word the graph is already edge-per-file. i added the labels but it looks dodgy http://glyf.org/tmp/labels1.png http://glyf.org/tmp/labels2.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nuXnGn )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nuXmCf )
ben_vulpes: aha, that's what i thought!
ben_vulpes: yeah, messy.
ben_vulpes: phf: is this mod6's svgerator or your own?
mod6: ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V
mod6: and it eliminates at least 167 lines of code.
asciilifeform: mod6: neato!
mod6: and seems to work ok... but i'll hvae to test this quite a bit.
ben_vulpes: (and the wget 0day!)
asciilifeform: phf: spiffy diagram, quite like what i had in mind originally in fact
mod6: is it worthwhile to rip out my graphing stuff out of V?
asciilifeform: phf: now, instead of the multiple arrows, which really don't convey any useful info, it would be interesting to vary the ~thickness~ of the lines based on the 'weight' of the change.
asciilifeform: mod6: not unless it could somehow exist separately
asciilifeform: the graph thing is very useful.
mod6: alright, fwiw, it does work. could use some more colorization and attention to details like you and Mr. P. have suggested.
asciilifeform: phf: ah i just noticed that you had the file changes marks. this ~is~ useful.
mod6: i just haven't focused on that part as much for obv reasons.
mod6: so -- i might need several weeks at min to test out v99995 of V
mod6: i gotta re-write a lot of automated tests and stuff too.
mod6: actually, it might just elimiate a bunch of tests.
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << what would this be good for? you are welcome to sign + post the binaries to ml yourself
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115400 @ 0.00056589 = 65.3037 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: asciilifeform: while i'm on the subject (and anyone else for that matter): is there anything else that should be excised from the current V [v99996] ?
mod6: aside from the sync/mirrors/init stuff?
mod6: i'd like to get this into "battle-ready" shape once and for all.
mod6: also, hehe, i downloaded this scheme interpreter to play with on my phone.
mod6: its pretty funky.
phf: asciilifeform: right, it's a state transition graph, with edges corresponding to file changes
phf: asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/war-room.png
asciilifeform: neato
phf: that one looks pretty cool
mod6: cool
asciilifeform: war room!
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: for completeness, arrows oughta be red, on black
phf: haha
ben_vulpes: heh
asciilifeform: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3027924/it-industry/obama-wants-4b-for-more-computer-science-education.html << from the l0ltr0ns
assbot: Obama wants $4B for more computer science education | Computerworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO7IZN )
asciilifeform: cocktail of lulz
asciilifeform: such as: microshit in charge of 'computer education'
asciilifeform: and 'The timing of Saturday's announcement is slightly awkward for the White House. On Friday, security researcher Ashkan Soltani revealed that he was denied a security clearance to work there as a senior advisor to U.S. CTO Megan Smith. While Soltani declined to speculate on the government's reason to refuse the clearance, he previously worked with the Washington Post on analyzing documents from NSA leaker Edward Snowden.'
asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/ashk4n/status/693221584933363712 << i have no idea who he is/was, but this is hilarious
asciilifeform: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/white-house-tech-researcher-denied-security-clearance-edward-snowden-nsa << moar from the other usa
assbot: White House denies clearance to tech researcher with links to Snowden | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1PHcyCJ )
asciilifeform: aryans only plox !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40895 @ 0.00056178 = 22.974 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39905 @ 0.00056028 = 22.358 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82382 @ 0.00056849 = 46.8333 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389999 << just as it should be
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 17:51:53; mod6: i do a lot of testing etc. often if I'm actually going to change a line of code, i'll press out a seperate branch call it 'foo', go in there copy a & b, then make changes in b. make a vpatch. drop it in my live bitcoin branch, rebuild with the rotor. bunch of stuff.
mircea_popescu: in... other ? news, http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/world/americas/argentina-scrambles-to-fight-biggest-plague-of-locusts-in-60-years.html
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1QOaBtn )
ben_vulpes: think they're going to try the sterile males trick?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390020 << they do get signed. seems a minor point, how you get them.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:05:48; asciilifeform: and loading them from the jungle every time, not nervous ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i think they're going to try the sit around and talk about it while it goes away or whatever trick
mircea_popescu: they are, after all, americans.
ben_vulpes: paha
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390029 << da fuck are you on about, bitcoin nodes connect to internet.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:07:37; asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a battlefield trb oughta be built on a virginal airgapped box.
asciilifeform: BUILT
asciilifeform: as in, compiled.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390128 << this is pointedly mistaken. pgp messages are ALSO signed, yet we use airgapped boxes. why?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 19:32:50; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390020 << they do get signed. seems a minor point, how you get them.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390047 << how do you feel about a slut walking around looking for a cock to suck ?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:13:03; asciilifeform: how would you feel about a table saw that walks around looking for what to saw ?
mircea_popescu: what, all tied to walls all day long ?
asciilifeform: building battlefield crypto bin on a box with no nic is the Right Thing.
mircea_popescu: looky : your design whereby a better water piping system consists of introducing a one foot gap somewhere so people can be employed to run the water across in buckets isn't as brilliant as it seems.
mircea_popescu: there's a time and place for all things.
asciilifeform: it isn't brilliant or sexy, but it is necessary.
asciilifeform: wget entails a vast shitstack.
mircea_popescu: if the machine is never going to connect to the internet, building on it airgapped is sane.
asciilifeform: and a box on the other end, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: if the machine will connect ot the internet anyway, what the fuck do you imagine "airgapping" it does ?
asciilifeform: not IT
asciilifeform: the ~build~ box
asciilifeform: see the difference ?
mircea_popescu: no.
asciilifeform: wasn't speaking of the ~run~ box
mircea_popescu: but the convenience here is exactly that i just compile on the run boxes.
asciilifeform: i get that this is convenient. i did this with some of my nodes. but ultimately this is a sinful sort of convenience.
mircea_popescu: which is how i discovered yest that for instance we have an undocumented "bc" dependency in the build tree
asciilifeform: let me guess, buildroot's.
mircea_popescu: all convenience is sinful by this measure. there's nothing wrong with a little sin.
mircea_popescu: now, mind, i don't think it's wrong to have a cast cd of the thing, just like i don't think it's wrong to have an iridium idol of the "meter" somewhere in france
asciilifeform: entirely wrong analogy. the point of cd is to have 10,000 iridium metres.
mircea_popescu: but don't expect me to go to paris every time i'm about to fit tits for corsets.
asciilifeform: let'em diddle the disk on ~everybody's~ desk.
mircea_popescu: even so.
asciilifeform: let's put it this way, that bdb tarball ain't ever chaning
asciilifeform: *changing
mircea_popescu: understand that introducing the ability to read cds is an unneeded kludge.
asciilifeform: ditto bdb
phf: asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/war-room2.png not quite right, but i like it
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QObxhu )
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin machine HAS TO internet
mircea_popescu: it does not have to cd.
asciilifeform: build machine doesn't.
asciilifeform: plus the purpose of the cd is pointedly NOT to be read each time.
asciilifeform: but as a standard.
mircea_popescu: so then you internet a signed binary over rather than a v tree. meh.
asciilifeform: you can push a tarball to your online box.
mircea_popescu: i much prefer building on the dest box whenever feasible.
asciilifeform: do you see the point of the openbsd cd ?
asciilifeform: i - do.
mircea_popescu: i also never used it.
mircea_popescu: i did use the old debian cds, back in the day.
mircea_popescu: but that because internets sucked then
asciilifeform: they suck today.
mircea_popescu: i don't even see the value of maintaining the cd as a thing in the world. it can go the way of the celuloid film afaic.
asciilifeform: it is similar to the value of ~paper~
asciilifeform: bits that enemy cannot flip no matter how much he tries.
mircea_popescu: according to proponents. it's similar to the value of vinyl, in reality.
danielpbarron: the point of openbsd cd is to compare against downloaded version, no?
mircea_popescu: paper, i write and read with my own hands.
mircea_popescu: cds, not.
mircea_popescu: so paper is in this sense the same as --clearsign. a cd is not that, not even remotely.
asciilifeform: aluminum cd, in inert atmosphere, will easily outlast parchment.
mircea_popescu: and also it's trivial to rewrite a cd. most of them are rewritable realy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu : FORGET about the rewritables!!!
asciilifeform: they were NOT in the conversation.
mircea_popescu: they are rewritable to some degree whether you wantthem to be or not.
asciilifeform: SPECIFICALLY aluminum pressed cd.
asciilifeform: and no, it motherfucking is not.
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: go, rewrite 1 bit for me.
danielpbarron: get nubbins` or someone to make some nice artwork on it and i'll buy
asciilifeform: in order for the idea to have any meaning, it has to be a pressed cd.
asciilifeform: (yes, with the glass die, and whole orchestra)
mircea_popescu: so to summarize : a) they're less resilient than you imagine them to be ; b) they're more rewritable than you imagine them to be ; c) keepi9ng them around requires keeping a whole pile of kludge that never worked right (cd drivers etc).
asciilifeform: demonstrate rewriting of al pressed disk plox ?
mircea_popescu: you wanna write trb by hand on stone, fine.
asciilifeform: srsly
mircea_popescu: you wanna press a vinyl copy of it... whatevs floats your boat but dun go all fetish-hypster on me
asciilifeform: and what 'cd drivers.' modern drives plug through usb and enumerate as mass storage std.
asciilifeform: if you can connect any external disk, you can connect cdrom reader.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can we agree at least on the concept that the notation you'll use consists of making different sized holes for 0s and 1s ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they aren't simply 'different sized holes', there is reed-solomon encoding
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: yes or no will suffice.
asciilifeform: it is not enough to burn an extra hole with gigantic laser, if that is what you were thinking.
asciilifeform: (incidentally this is a first-class bitch to do with aluminum, esp. if you want the result to be visually inconspicuous, and not, say, a hole through the WHOLE disk sandwich.)
asciilifeform: it has good thermal conductivity. i can't make so much as a dent in aluminum foil with 40W co2 tube.
asciilifeform: there is a reason why cd-r uses dye rather than metal for the burn layer.
mircea_popescu: none of this is really germane.
asciilifeform: but let's posit an enormous tube. you will need to use excimer laser, i suspect. disk - will warp.
mircea_popescu: the cd remains a sort of vinyl disc, for a, b and c above.
asciilifeform: it is germane if it illuminates the hypothesis of 'can't quietly flip a bit on this'
asciilifeform: thus far - it stands.
mircea_popescu: it's more or less a 1966 argument that "it is not possible to alter a vinyl disc once printed because hurr durr the plastic will melt"
asciilifeform: 'a' is lunacy - there is NO more durable machine-readable storage presently known.
asciilifeform: cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere.
asciilifeform: does not conduct current.
asciilifeform: etc
mircea_popescu: anyway, i gotta go to town. we can continue this when i'm back, but less symbolistic fetishism, more alphabetic monotheism plox.
asciilifeform: 'b' is an interesting hypothesis and i would pay to watch it demonstrated.
asciilifeform: 'c' is more defensible but we all have crates of usb cdrom readers.
asciilifeform also bbl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10975 @ 0.00056441 = 6.1944 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155458 @ 0.00057014 = 88.6328 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00057049 = 16.7154 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49507 @ 0.00057198 = 28.317 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29350 @ 0.00057217 = 16.7932 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 423 @ 0.00284835 = 1.2049 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71400 @ 0.00057049 = 40.733 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18156 @ 0.00056947 = 10.3393 BTC [-] {3}
phf: can someone with a full press (including shiva 2) verify that this is remotely correct hashes http://paste.lisp.org/display/306216 ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki2WCp )
mod6: i can take a look, give me a few.
mod6: ok do i understand this right? (i haven't done this since before the re-bake of tinyscheme)
mod6: i need this:
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP )
mod6: and this:
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )
mod6: and speaking of which, i'd also like to note that all of the sigs (seals) in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html are misnamed. http://dpaste.com/1KRXSBM.txt
assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki4GLR )
mod6: for the sake of this test, i'll just rename these in my .seals dir as they should be.
mod6: http://dpaste.com/2Q73DJV.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki58K3 )
mod6: ok pressed out & compiling...
mod6: if this works, i'll do a clean and then grab the file hashes.
mod6: ok compiled cleanly.
mod6: with V [v99996] pressed out cleanly when:
mod6: ./v.pl p v rotor/TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch
mod6: http://dpaste.com/26FWQ55.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6moM )
mod6: here, phf, this one is sorted: http://dpaste.com/3WNFNYA.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6BjE )
mod6: awe crap, sorry my manifest file is in the list.
mod6: here: http://dpaste.com/27R03Q0.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6GUz )
mod6: looks like our header files differ for sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66243 @ 0.00056278 = 37.2802 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: yeah, we got a bunch of files that differ. but i might have built something that you haven't.
phf: mod6: thanks! well more common then different
phf: i pressed it programmatically, without "patch" utility, before leaving home, so didnt have time to test it
phf: so its encouraging that at least some files match
mod6: ah, ok. cool.
mod6: asciilifeform will have to confirm/deny that i used the correct patches.
shinohai: >.>
shinohai: Gonna try another 99996 build
mod6: ah ok. just to see if you hit that same PERL_MM_OPT thing? or just on another OS?
mod6: we need to get that script into deedbot so we can update the wiki
shinohai: I'm doing a fresh, vanilla image so imma see what happens.
mod6: coo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57496 @ 0.00056576 = 32.5289 BTC [+] {2}
mats: amd is dying
BingoBoingo: mats: Where is it bleeding now?
jurov: Where is v.py available to download?
jurov: even v.pl, for that matter... :)
jurov: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin does not indicate the thing exists at all
assbot: the_real_bitcoin [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/238YcVW )
jurov: and search.b-a won't find anything immediately useful
jurov: i do have it, just trying on another computer, and said to myself - let's try this from perspective of newcomer
jurov: looks like i got stymied right at very first step
ben_vulpes: "read everything on the mailing list and call me in the morning"
jurov: rly.
jurov: okay, adding that to wiki
kakobrekla: and once mailing list is thousands of pages, still the way to go?
ben_vulpes: it's a joke!
kakobrekla: hard to say.
ben_vulpes: some truth in it.
mod6: <+jurov> even v.pl, for that matter... :) << this is available in the ML & on the foundation homepage.
mod6: <+jurov> http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin does not indicate the thing exists at all << this should probably say something separate about V. but the build script grabs it as part of the build & verify proces.
assbot: the_real_bitcoin [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/238YcVW )
mod6: *process
mod6: so in reality, no you don't need V or anything. i think if you just follow dpb's wiki steps it's all good.
mod6: but it really does need to be updated for v99996 today.
mod6: trinque can you pu'http://dpaste.com/2VBF9V2.txt' in there (maybe run a dos2unix on it first) with a title like the other one ala 'build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh' or whatever?
mod6: danielpbarron: do you wanna update the wiki as soon as there is a get-able deedbot entry for this?
mod6: i guess i could do the deedbot part, not sure how to work it th
mod6: tho
mod6: oh looks like you can just pass it a dpaste
jurov: i have added short info to that page
jurov: yes it's on foundation homepage, i was blind
BingoBoingo: At times we all are bling
mod6: deedbot: http://www.mod6.net/btcf/build-bitcoind-V99996.sh
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20A0Hyq )
mod6: oh its not even in here.
mod6: ok.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 281900 @ 0.00056106 = 158.1628 BTC [-] {8}
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere. << Been doing cleaning and have taken to playing pressed cd's that by many rights out not be playing. (not a single cd-r from mess has played yet, including a few 5+ year old "archival" turds)
danielpbarron: what needs to be changed? just the url to the .sh ? or are some of the steps different now?
BingoBoingo: Has anyone yet tried making an alibaba shopping list for necessary equipment to start a cd replication line?
ben_vulpes: deedbot.org script mentioned above i believe uses asciilifeform's old key
ben_vulpes: hey, stan's bouncer died!
mod6: <+danielpbarron> what needs to be changed? just the url to the .sh ? or are some of the steps different now? << yeah, i think the steps are going to be fine, other than the URL to the new script (when we finally get it deedbotted) and the name of the script.
mod6: ofc. we'll wanna put our newb hats on and try the steps anyway tho
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390077 << this is a bad idea inasmuch as it leaves my build process stranded, so i'll be stuck forever using current v and i suppose forever pressing 9996 then ?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:36:47; mod6: ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390098 << it's altogether unclear to me how it isn't battle ready.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:43:48; mod6: i'd like to get this into "battle-ready" shape once and for all.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90346 @ 0.00055924 = 50.5251 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: so what is the thing to be done with korsgaard's key?
mircea_popescu: nfi.
mircea_popescu: ideally, you go read the whole fucking thing, rebase and sign as your own.
mircea_popescu: then i can exclude his key and pretend he never lived.
ben_vulpes: > read buildroot
ben_vulpes: mk
mircea_popescu: so then nothing.
ben_vulpes: mod6: do you expect me to have korsgaard's key in my personal keyring when running build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh?
mircea_popescu: and this is generally the way it goes. anyone wants to "take wget out" - fine. the path to this is you write your own wget, sign it and use that.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390293 << sucks, huh. but good find.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 00:27:16; jurov: looks like i got stymied right at very first step
mod6: i actually think if you follow the steps in the wiki, jurov is incorrect, you don't need to know anything about V. or download it seperately, or anything. the script does it all for you.
mod6: same as the makefiles will do.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell trinque hey buddy looks like your makefiles depend on keys in the personal keyring
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: mod6 well on the theory he didn't want to run the script.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this qualifies as advanced use tho
mod6: yeah, cause if you don't run the script, then you need to set up everything, including the rotor, buildroot & copying around the config, and tons of other stuff.
mircea_popescu: yeah. and, of course, the code is the standard, so just read the script as a guide :D
mircea_popescu: funny how this shit works.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in fairness : we had a little bit of excited & explosive growth here past coupla months, will take a little to digest it into proper form.
shinohai: That script is like cliff notes, I couldn't live without yet.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390311 << yup that's how it works. simplicity is the mother of inventions.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 00:44:05; mod6: oh looks like you can just pass it a dpaste
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390077 << this is a bad idea inasmuch as it leaves my build process stranded, so i'll be stuck forever using current v and i suppose forever pressing 9996 then ? << yeah, i read your comments earlier on this. part of "battle-ready" to me means not only that it has lordship blessing, but it doesn't break any security paradigms that we m
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:36:47; mod6: ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V
mod6: ight hold in our minds.
mircea_popescu: well i am unaware of this "cd based security paradigm" as anything other than a chewing-gum and ductape concoction of no practical consequence.
mod6: sure.
mircea_popescu: nodes are internet machines, they stay on the internet and are expected to work safely and securely online. end of story.
mircea_popescu: museum nodes can be created as a derivative work at any time, they'll be as funky as pornography is. not real sex.
mod6: i might regret the notion of using wget someday, but I figured it possibly better than writing some native code in perl that would most likely utilize some module, or even importation of the module directly.
mod6: the only real way around this is for me to write all of that stuff by hand.
mircea_popescu: it's a sore spot, but it's treated properly imo : quite clearly in the open.
mod6: which, might eventually happen.
mircea_popescu: and the avenue to fix it is also well known. wget is open source. rebase.
mod6: *nod*
mircea_popescu: for that matter you know, bdb is also a piece of shit. and openshitmypants and so on.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: do you expect me to have korsgaard's key in my personal keyring when running build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh? << yup, this is how it works if we want to verify the buildroot package cryptographically.
mod6: now, we could have automated this into a temp keyring
mircea_popescu: i honestly dun see what the problem is here. what is the problem here ?
mircea_popescu: so the key gotta be in keyring. so ?
mod6: i guess that may not be horribru. ask users to gather up pub keys, place in a separate dir other than .wot, import them into temp keyring, use them, and then remove the temp keyring when finished.
mircea_popescu: and this gains us what ? more inconvenience ?
mircea_popescu: gpg --import not gnarly enough ?
mod6: basically.
mircea_popescu: logcially, if you're not willing to import a guy's key, why the fuck are you pulling his code. write your own or w/e.
mod6: exactly.
mircea_popescu: not like if trb.buildroot pops up tomorrow i wouldn't at least consider it.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform likes to scream about how dumb the keyring is
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390320 <<< it's a lot easier to pretend cds are the golden standard of archival while sitting on a flac collection safely kept on a rpm hdd.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 01:03:51; BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere. << Been doing cleaning and have taken to playing pressed cd's that by many rights out not be playing. (not a single cd-r from mess has played yet, including a few 5+ year old "archival" turds)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah. he also screams about how dumb usg is, hasn't yet moved away.
mod6: i think his 'p' or whatever the name is, is going to do away with that -- least iirc.
ben_vulpes: i'm struggling to build a cohesive mental model for the right way to approach this gordian knot
mircea_popescu: whining in here is the right way.
ben_vulpes: i'm just fumbling in the dark
mircea_popescu: no hint of sarcasm or anything.
mircea_popescu: even if it usually turns out to have been a stupid idea/whatever, still whining in here is the right way to approach teh knot.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell trinque i may be exceptionally retarded today, but is there a reason why shit/Manifest.sha256 doesn't contain a hash for buildroot?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure there's a hash in the script
mircea_popescu: the one that makes the rotor.
mircea_popescu: mod6 what's the scriopt called ? the one that makes rotor.sh ?
ben_vulpes: build-bitcoind-whateverk.sh?
mircea_popescu: fuck i don't even know what anything's called.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm using trinque's experimental makefiles.
mircea_popescu: it really should have a name, apparerntly i saved it variously as press.sh vconfig.sh etc
mircea_popescu: ah ah nm me
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: cd's aren't magic, but a cd press might serve a useful purpose for distributing samizdat that lasts.
mod6: ben_vulpes: the buildroot hash is in deps/Manifest.sha512
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sure.
mircea_popescu: and generally - for bringing internet water into teh deserts.
gernika: mod6: fwiw successfully built and currently running 99996
mod6: hey!
mod6: congrats gernika. thanks for testing & reporting
mod6: i need to update my wot one of these days.
gernika: np. one of these days I'm gonna find a bug or somethin :)
mod6: keep lookin, it all helps us.
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_rear
mircea_popescu: in an alt world, bitcoin blocks come once a day, are 737.280 MB in size, go around on CDs
mircea_popescu: wd gernika
ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390324 << scheduled maintenance on the box, removing pounds of dust
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 01:11:40; ben_vulpes: hey, stan's bouncer died!
ascii_rear: and installing new raid disks
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear it's only scheduled if yo usay before we do :D
mod6: im digging through the shiva code :]
ascii_rear: l0lz
mircea_popescu: !rated gernika
assbot: You rated user gernika on 04-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
mircea_popescu: !rate gernika 1 Managed to press 99996
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d26d0b8b2603e53d
ascii_rear: mod6: see anything that doesn't make sense ?
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gernika.1:0460d190229514ca15052ed9ecf853adc7340cd5620aca6d64495d00876c7a7a
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for gernika from 1 to 1 with note: Managed to press 99996
mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of config setups : 1. pick a list of TRB nodes ; 2. add to ifconfig, deny all others ; 3. plug eth cable, congrats, you now have a secure box. go ahead install all the toolbar spyware you care to, won't matter.
ascii_rear: mircea_popescu: and your online build of buildroot et al?
mircea_popescu: also won't matter.
mod6: <+ascii_rear> mod6: see anything that doesn't make sense ? << not yet. was just poking through how you load this thing up (in src/shiva.h|.cpp) - also looking at how to define more operations
ascii_rear: mod6: the hacking.txt that comes with classical tinyscheme is helpful
mod6: i did dig through all of the src/shiva code too - but since im not super cluded on scheme yet, dont quite know everything thats going on there.
ascii_rear: there is also an 'example.c' floating around on the net that has moar examples
mod6: saw a lot of func pointers that seem to expose an interface into the thing tho
mod6: unless im wrong about what that was doing.
mod6: i guess that was all in scheme.h
mod6: i gotta digest all of this a bit. heheh.
mod6: thanks for the pointers.
ascii_rear: mod6: it took me ages to fully grasp how tinyscheme works. actually had to finish sicp for the basic mechanics of schematron to fully fall into place in my mind.
mod6: the thing thats a bit backwards is trying to learn how scheme works through the lens of C/C++
ascii_rear: the important message here is something else, the shiva console is not to be considered publicly exposable in any sense
mod6: for sure, just like you wouldn't want to expose your rpc port to 0.0.0.0
ascii_rear: it is intended to be a more dangerous version of existing rpc, eventually you will be able to flip arbitrary bits in the data structures with it
mod6: ah. right, with the debugging parts enabled. yeah, danger lurks.
ascii_rear: nono my point is
ascii_rear: it lurks ~now~
ascii_rear: tinyscheme is not in any sense hygienic.
mod6: point taken.
ascii_rear: (exploitable overflow was actually found in it, in 2012)
ascii_rear: but, 1) there is a skull on the patch for a reason 2) there is not actually an alternative to tinyscheme.
mod6: oh, ok. was that ever repaired? or isn't updated? i thought I saw the guys comment on his website that said "until i'm dead" or something?
mod6: was I dreaming?
ascii_rear: mod6: that one - fixed
mod6: ok
ascii_rear: but reading the code has filled me with disgust
ascii_rear: !s idiomatic
assbot: 16 results for 'idiomatic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=idiomatic
ascii_rear: see latest thread
mod6: was tinyscheme a beter alt than minischeme simply because of its size and ability to fit in head?
ascii_rear: no
ascii_rear: it is a descendent of minischeme
ascii_rear: that has programmable i/o ports and arrays
ascii_rear: we can't actually use a scheme that lacks these.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116400 @ 0.00055816 = 64.9698 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: ah
ascii_rear: otherwise i would have used classical minischeme.
mod6: im gonna keep reading scim see what i can figure out.
ascii_rear: tinyscheme is the smallest (loc and complexity-wise) schematron that has these necessaries.
ascii_rear: scim?
mod6: i think i wanna try to work from tinyscheme/shiva -> C++ interface with bitcoind -- seems a more sane way to figure this thing out.
mod6: rahter than the reverse.
ascii_rear: ah
ascii_rear: there is much to be done there, incl. reimplementing the classical rpc hooks
mod6: err ya sicp
mod6: my bad
mod6: anyway, yeah, i feel like if we bring this thing into the fold, i aught to know what the back end is doing.
ascii_rear: but eventually we ought to be able to do spiffy things like writing my memory usage grapher ~entirely in shiva~, etc
ascii_rear: adding custom friend-or-foe stuff, or whatnov
ascii_rear: *whatnot
mod6: sure, there seems to be a bunch of power here in this tool - would be nice to harness that and make some useful stuff.
ascii_rear: the nice thing about scheme vs. some random bozo half-lisp is that it is an actual STANDARD
ascii_rear: so potentially we can write our own, eventually, to replace tiny.
ascii_rear: (there are hard tests for compliance, can run these)
mod6: there suprisingly isn't ~that~ much code.
ascii_rear: aha, as i said, it is the smallest known
ascii_rear: but very gnarly nonetheless.
ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390327 << can we at least have the option of loading from local dir instead of www ?
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 01:18:57; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390077 << this is a bad idea inasmuch as it leaves my build process stranded, so i'll be stuck forever using current v and i suppose forever pressing 9996 then ?
mod6: you can do that just fine.
mod6: you don't ~need~ to run the init command at all
mod6: just create a 'patches' and '.seals' dir in the same dir as v.pl and you're golden
ascii_rear: what would be handy is if the thing could spit out a manifest of all the crap it expects to find
ascii_rear: i was thinking of buildroot
ascii_rear: and the deps
mod6: oh for like the makefiles and stuff? i think we were just gonna put the stuff in the shit dir iirc.
mod6: but then it pulls all kinds of stuff.
mod6: well, a dozen or so ya.
mod6: but anyway, if we wanna stuff all of that stuff into shit as well, then we need to hack on buildroot to not rsync it -- now we've forked our own.
mod6: or are you saying something different?
ascii_rear: nah the very same
mod6: i went down this road probably like in december or november or something. just was its own ball of wax.
shinohai: ok mod6 test completed, did not have to set set the perl option before building
ascii_rear: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390322 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-12-2015#1350992 >> think more 'chip fab' than 'iphone assembly line'
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 01:05:43; BingoBoingo: Has anyone yet tried making an alibaba shopping list for necessary equipment to start a cd replication line?
assbot: Logged on 23-12-2015 04:23:56; asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEnmSem8C-0
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_rear: and yes, the things fucking LAST
ascii_rear: i have 25 y.o. cds that read without any problems
ascii_rear: trick is that they gotta be pressed aluminum
mod6: <+shinohai> ok mod6 test completed, did not have to set set the perl option before building << ok good deal, i assume that the PERL_MM_OPT thing is an evironment deal.
ascii_rear: and not shit
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear> but eventually we ought to be able to do spiffy things like writing my memory usage grapher ~entirely in shiva~, etc << quite. once this is fully functional debugging in trb can not be matched, period. by anyone, anywhere, doing anything.
BingoBoingo: ascii_rear: It's like a hard drive assembly line. Rather far from chip fab obstacles.
ascii_rear: BingoBoingo: watch the film at least until where the sintering machine appears
ascii_rear: sputtering
mircea_popescu: so in this sense mod6 it has my imprimatur that bothering to grok it isn't a waste of your finite time.
shinohai: yeah it seems when I was doing lappy setup I changed something.
ascii_rear: sputtering machine.
ascii_rear: mircea_popescu: aha, that was why i did it originally
ascii_rear: it will rock especially hard when i get the emacsatron in (see slime thread)
shinohai: dff2d2d6267c4c4a4bfb5015ca2bd7e18953a5933e2eafca69403549b9c99229 bitcoind
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear> can we at least have the option of loading from local dir instead of www ? <<< now that is a very good idea.
ascii_rear: keying crud manually into the repl shell suxxx
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> so in this sense mod6 it has my imprimatur that bothering to grok it isn't a waste of your finite time. << yeah, agreed, Sir.
BingoBoingo: ascii_rear: I see nothing that preculdes guerilla cd operation from being done in reasonably clean warehouse for 1 or 2 new chevy suburbans worth of captial outlay.
ascii_rear: BingoBoingo: not entirely impossible
thestringpuller: at height=322956 core 2 duo takes about 45 seconds to 1 minute per block verification...
ascii_rear: next thing i will do, supposing that nobody else takes it up, is to make the mempool shiva-walkable
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller aha. this was discussed time and again in the very logs.
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear do some other work for a while.
mircea_popescu: going too fast here isn't gonna help anyone.
ascii_rear: i got plenty
mircea_popescu: i know it's exciting and all. but, pace in all things.
mod6: yeah, you've got some time yet before we can really dig into that in earnest anyway.
ascii_rear: mircea_popescu: most of what you see in shiva is old wurk
ascii_rear: realize that i have a vast collection of crud
mod6: we need to focus on the makefiles & the release. meanwhile im sure theres a zillion other things.
ascii_rear: most of it quite unfit for publication
mod6: !up ascii_rear
ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390334 << ahahahaha l0l sure
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 01:25:55; mircea_popescu: ideally, you go read the whole fucking thing, rebase and sign as your own.
ascii_rear: go, read.
ascii_rear: buildroot is one of those things that suck donkey corpse ballz but there is NO alternative to.
ascii_rear: (please wake me up if one is discovered!!1)
ascii_rear: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390382 << absolute gold standard, nothing else even comes close. SO LONG AS we are talking about aluminum cd.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 01:39:47; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390320 <<< it's a lot easier to pretend cds are the golden standard of archival while sitting on a flac collection safely kept on a rpm hdd.
ascii_rear: mask rom is prolly a close second, but it is vulnerable to electrostatic
ascii_rear: and holds pitifully small chunks
ascii_rear: ONE cd would handily hold the source to every public software package worth taking to mars with you.
ascii_rear: and compiler.
BingoBoingo: hole punched teflon ticker tape is probably actual gold standard, but...
ascii_rear: mno, ever have a jam ?
BingoBoingo: With other tape yes, but the kind of jam that would deform teflon?
ascii_rear: if BingoBoingo is thinking of the teflon tape used in plumbing, i can hardly imagine a worse punched ribbon
ascii_rear: the thing stretches and warps when you so much as fart on it.
BingoBoingo: ascii_rear: I'm thinking more the sheets used for the grilltops at McDonalds.
BingoBoingo: Or maybe tyvek would be a better candidate
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/01/california-environmentalists-fight-to-save-endangered-nuclear-plant/
assbot: California Environmentalists Fight To Save Endangered Nuclear Plant | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/20f2j3L )
ascii_rear bbl
BingoBoingo: !up trinque-out
trinque-out: deedbot will be back later this evening. The DC neglected to turn the thing back on after SSD installation and I had to depart the keyboard. Meanwhile just send me anything that needs to go through and it'll happen tonight.
mod6: ;;later tell trinque this to be deedbotted: http://www.mod6.net/btcf/build-bitcoind-V99996.sh
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20A0Hyq )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95586 @ 0.00055797 = 53.3341 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up Frankie8
BingoBoingo: !up Ripchord
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106900 @ 0.00055754 = 59.601 BTC [-] {4}
pete_dushenski: who wants to see a funny bitbet oopsie ?
pete_dushenski: https://bitbet.us/bet/1228/bitcoin-network-hits-1-exahash/#b1 https://bitbet.us/bet/1228/bitcoin-network-hits-1-exahash/#b3 << same out address for 0conf and house bet !
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin Network Hits 1 Exahash :: 105.65 B (96%) on Yes, 3.93 B (4%) on No | closed 4 days 9 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzTYzD )
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin Network Hits 1 Exahash :: 105.65 B (96%) on Yes, 3.93 B (4%) on No | closed 4 days 9 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzU1f4 )
pete_dushenski: so unless bitbet is now drafting and seeding their own proposals...
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389535 << that's... just horrendous.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 00:52:27; assbot: سيارة Elibreia القطرية تجذب جميع الأنظار نحوها | ArabGT ... ( http://bit.ly/23z6Ltt )
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhjwWhlk5Q << left by a contravex commenter. i lollered. (for those who watch videos only)
assbot: Russell Peters White people are not racist - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzU8XV )
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Yww_nYuFA << and in other videos, why NOT put a wwi airship engine WITH 3`000 LB-FT OF TORQUE in a 1905 fiat isotta fraschini ? seems reasonable.
assbot: Insane ​*127MPH*​ WWI engined Fiat Isotta - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzUhuv )
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Smaller house bet has alway gone to the person proposing the bet on BitBet
pete_dushenski: in computing terms, ^ would be like putting 256gb ecc ram, 16-core amd fx and gaming vid card in an ipad.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: o.O
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It's not new. It's something that has always been brough up as part of BitBet's marketing for people to submit interesting proposals
pete_dushenski: so if 0.01 - 0.04 btc house bet wins, it goes to proposer ?
BingoBoingo: yeah
BingoBoingo: Always has
pete_dushenski: damn. and here i was thinking i was fucking zheng he.
pete_dushenski: "Because of this EPA wall, the market is currently dominated by low-level ethanol blends, such as “E10” (10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline). That has prevented mid-level ethanol fuels, such as E25 or E30, from widely reaching American consumers. If allowed full market access, mid-level ethanol products like E25 or E30 could prove quite popular with American consumers, who are increasingly concerned
pete_dushenski: with fuel economy."
pete_dushenski: ^from teddy cruz, who just lost alf's vote by the looks of it
pete_dushenski: how and by what fluke of fisics cruz thinks that eXX burns ~more~ efficiently than 100% gas is anyone's guess
pete_dushenski: additionally, with a gallon of gas a ~$1 stateside, NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FUEL ECONOMY
pete_dushenski: do corn producers what to put their products everywhere and anywhere, from building materials to groceries ? ofc. but that has nothing to do with consumers.
pete_dushenski: obligatory : http://www.contravex.com/2015/10/09/is-this-corn-free/
assbot: “Is this corn-free?” | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzURbJ )
pete_dushenski: why teddy can't just frame his position as "e30 is even LESS efficient which is good for both corn and oil producers" is anyone's guess. trump owns honesty, apparently.
mircea_popescu: assbot> California Environmentalists Fight To Save Endangered Nuclear Plant <<< had to dbl take. then lulz floweth
mircea_popescu: "The DC neglected to turn the thing back on after SSD installation" <<< o.O
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Note the categories it was filed under
pete_dushenski: "The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30" << from some study by the american coalition for ethanol.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski> so unless bitbet is now drafting and seeding their own proposals... << this isn't even new.
pete_dushenski: but i... apparently am
pete_dushenski: bbias
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It's just residual pregnancy fog affecting your brain. It'll clear in 17 years
mircea_popescu: anyway. in no sense is ethanol LESS fuel intensive than gasoline. the alternatives are oil->refinery->gasoline for gasoline, or oil->refinery->chem feed->chem plant->fertilizer->farm->corn->ethanol plant->ethanol.
mircea_popescu: you get about 1 to 5% less mileage per barrel in the 2nd approach, as should be obvious. you neverthelss get 5x the "jobs" and 20 to 50x the imaginary industrial assets.
mircea_popescu: so, as they quite aptly say, it's a no brainer.
mod6: hehehe
mod6: unreal isn't it
mod6: gas here $1.55 today
mod6: in other news, i can't seem to get -setvernum to work either? or how can I tell that it worked?
mod6: http://dpaste.com/124WDD3.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nVwTOE )
phf: huh, so everything matches except for headers.h
phf: mod6: hey you mind dpasting your headers.h?
mod6: it's not just headers.h, theres a number of others.
phf: there is? :o i did shasum -a 512 -c foo.txt|grep -v OK where foo.txt is your dpaste and only headers is not giving me ok.
mod6: oooh. hmm. maybe im looking at this wrong.
mod6: one sec.
mod6: ok yah, its just headers.h
phf: ha
mod6: here's my headers.h : http://dpaste.com/3W0FZVC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyutjC )
mod6: # grep "b86114b5b74d2b9e737798f78804439c5cdd0ae42440615c57fc85cb0ac7d8b8a454d2ef44048db6af0ca00a938178173eece431b273462dbc299c1501b86600" ../../../../patches/*
mod6: ../../../../patches/bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch:+++ b/bitcoin/src/headers.h b86114b5b74d2b9e737798f78804439c5cdd0ae42440615c57fc85cb0ac7d8b8a454d2ef44048db6af0ca00a938178173eece431b273462dbc299c1501b86600
mod6: i think that is correct
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: lol prolly that
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/01/networking-equipment-designated-weapon/
assbot: Networking Equipment Designated Weapon System | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyuG6g )
phf: i somehow have an extra newline there :o
mod6: so if ascii's V 'origin' command would take a hash as a parameter then show you the vpatch where it was touched, that would be helpful.
mod6: i should look into this
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style
mod6: or even give a source file name, then output all the vpatches that touch it & their before & after hashes, or something.
mod6: !up asciilifeform
asciilifeform finally puts away vacuum.
phf: mod6: sorry, this is entirely a non issue, i'm debugging a pure lisp presser, i.e. parsing vpatch files and then doing in memory press. everything presses, but that one file has an extra newline
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: saw that nyooz elsewhere yesterday, also found it odd to classify 'firewall' as 'weapon' but hey, not like words mean things in usistan
asciilifeform: phf: reimplemented pgp verify ?
mod6: phf: ahh, very cool though. as im sitting here reading sicp im thinking that maybe how i can learn scheme is by writing V in it -- at some point.
mod6: need to read more first heheh.
phf: asciilifeform: you know just the right kind of questions to ask :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100750 @ 0.00056042 = 56.4623 BTC [+] {4}
phf: i'm curious if there's enough machinery in ironclad to give me support to do a pgp verify rewrite
asciilifeform: there is not.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Yeah, lots of interesting oddities came out to end the month.
asciilifeform: phf: no rsa in there. will have to write it.
pete_dushenski: http://qntra.net/2016/01/networking-equipment-designated-weapon/#comment-44205
assbot: Networking Equipment Designated Weapon System | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1JQRU79 )
phf: i have that patched gpgme version though, can always punt into the ugly land. i'm going to tackle diff first though, seems like a significant hole in my algo knowledge
pete_dushenski: mod6: in other news, i can't seem to get -setvernum to work either? or how can I tell that it worked? << hm. has anyone actually used 'version-strings' in praxis ? seems like several failed attempts now.
mod6: yeah, i'm curious here.
pete_dushenski: !up p15x
mircea_popescu: assbot> Networking Equipment Designated Weapon System | << speaking of which, i fully expect the first usg-designed bitcoin miners to be designated exactly that.
BingoBoingo: You mean the Buttfurry double stack shipping container thing?
phf: "patch" is surprisingly trivial once you get past unified diff format parsing, http://paste.lisp.org/display/306234
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyvuIv )
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style << actually, best estimate i can get puts TMSR GDP growth for 2015 somewhere around 450-500%. that's not 4.5-5%. it's not 45-50% either.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Or the 21.co PiTaTo
mircea_popescu: and by the looks of january, Q1 2016 might actually beat that.
mircea_popescu: so... glhf, but never in the history of sovereigns has there been such a wonder etc.
asciilifeform: waiwut
mircea_popescu: to which part ?
asciilifeform: tmsr gdp...
mircea_popescu: apply common accounting standards to the work done, see what it adds up to.
mircea_popescu: if you produce a mythical man-month's code for trb, that adds the accounting value of a man-month to the tmsr gdp whether you mean for it to or not.
asciilifeform: denominated in what, martian bzortls ?
mircea_popescu: any currency of your choice.
danielpbarron: Eulora alone..
mircea_popescu: commonly usd, seeing how gdp is a usd thing.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah but he wouldn't be familiar with that.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski mod6 i never used server thing myself.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: humour me, show how to denote that man-month in usd.
mircea_popescu: admitting you're worth what sv pays for top talent, comes to about 60k or so.
mircea_popescu: iirc the per-capital costs are in the 700-750k bracket pa.
mircea_popescu: per-capita* i mean
mircea_popescu: AND, to add to the list of wonders, all that growth is financed purely through unbacked deficit spending!
mircea_popescu: tmsr really is what usg aspires to be, funnily enough.
asciilifeform: what's an isis mujahed worth, per capita, in usd ?
asciilifeform: (how much must one pay on open market to get somebody to allah-snackbar)
mircea_popescu: i think that's undefined, in the general. in the narrow particular, iirc blackwater charges something like 1.2-1.5. depends on various factors, but thereabouts.
mircea_popescu: if they gotta drone it tho, it gets a lot worse.
asciilifeform: mod6: i officially pronounce the verstring patch to be buggy and unfit for inclusion in its present state
asciilifeform: will be happy to produce an antimatter patch for it if this is needed.
mircea_popescu: meh, how about fixing things rather than putting in and taking out.
asciilifeform: would love to, but so far i do not understand why the setting mechanism does not work.
mircea_popescu: i dunno exactly why it was decided to have it in, but now it's in, so...
pete_dushenski: ver 99999 is fine by me
pete_dushenski: does what it needs to do
BingoBoingo: Spreading works! (TM)/(R)
asciilifeform: likewise it appears that the shiva patch has an issue, you end up having to LC_ALL="C" ./bitcoind -shivainit=./shiva/init.scm -shiva getinfo
asciilifeform: to get rpc
asciilifeform: this is a 1 line fix tho
asciilifeform: here are 2 opportunities for eagle eyes!
mod6: <+pete_dushenski> ver 99999 is fine by me << yeah, this is fine. but the fact that it doesn't do what it should do isn't. i'll pull the patch tomorrow.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: isn't tmsr also what most every organisation everywhere since ever aspired to be ?
mod6: and i'll also have to "re-grind" my high/low S patch
mircea_popescu: well yeah.
mod6: (since its antecedent is PVS)
mircea_popescu: mod6 incidentally found the correct way to undo things.
mircea_popescu: everyone has to rebase and so will hate you if you make them do it.
mircea_popescu: this is a good thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109800 @ 0.00055693 = 61.1509 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: i'd much prefer antimatter
mircea_popescu: also crucially evident why patches must be thematic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and polarbeard would much prefer large patches. you don't get what you prefer.
asciilifeform: we did it for the db locks fix
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00056044 = 8.2385 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: but whatever
mircea_popescu: we weren't smart back then.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i'd much prefer antimatter << this imho sets kindof an nasty precedent: just adding anitmatter patches, bloat for the tree. a hundred years from now there might be more anti-matter than matter patches!
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure he gets it.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> we did it for the db locks fix << this is fair. would have to had to regrind everything after last march :/
mod6: and... its maybe slightly different since the first patch was inclued in the first release.
mod6: we cant exactly rewrite history there.
mircea_popescu: "let one stick suffice per cartload of china"
mod6: since this one is new, and its not in a release, its not horrible. i'd prefer just to fix whatever might be wrong in there and resubmit & regrind high/low
mircea_popescu: or however you say that in english.
mod6: asciilifeform: totally up to you in that respect.
asciilifeform: mod6: do what you must.
mod6: maybe i'll try to debug it a bit, see if i can get it to work.
asciilifeform: i'ma try & figure out why the version set thing doesn't go
mircea_popescu: :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42670 @ 0.0005654 = 24.1256 BTC [+] {2}

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