mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude i just realised THATS MY RABBIT
asciilifeform: whos else's rabbit could it be.
mircea_popescu: i guess huh
BingoBoingo: lol Did cazalla ship it to you before or after slaughter?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo apparently not actually mine ( http://trilema.com/2012/in-atentia-igppa-autodenunt/ ). the tile got me confused.
asciilifeform: looks quite similar .
BingoBoingo: Classic Trilema, why not linked in the lazy libertard series?
BingoBoingo: Big Corpus problems.
mircea_popescu: gotta be.
asciilifeform: 'I thought that /dev/random (as opposed to /dev/urandom) was already based on entropy from physical noise, as recorded by sensors (I think including mouse, keyboard and temperature). Sounds like they're trying to make a big deal out of addressing a theoretical vulnerability, which is irrelevant in practice.' << glorious
mircea_popescu: what'll those dastardly terrorists think of next!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575383 << btw >> http://blackbox.poly.edu/geni/html/login >> 'SeattleGENI is now the Seattle Clearinghouse. New to Seattle? We suggest you first learn about Seattle before using Clearinghouse, a resource sharing website.'
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 04:27 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A8567569490690A4A212DEEDF7809300A0F133264CEB4ED07E15261F5F26C5E4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1430...1817 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '22.214.171.124 (ssh-rsa key from 126.96.36.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blackbox.poly.edu. US NY)
asciilifeform: ^ motherland of ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: "learn about seattle" ? this whole "educating" libertard bullshit. it's not a town see, it's a seattle, you gotta "learn about windows" lest you approach it with reasonable expectations and methodologies. o no, you gotta first fuck your head into a seattleshape.
asciilifeform: seattlification for dummiez!!11
mircea_popescu: how about seattle learns about little fucking old me.
mircea_popescu: and in other shitlord news, http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/boards/g/img/0577/81/1480568792212.jpg
asciilifeform: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/06/russia-racist-laser-obama_n_5656732.html << obligatory vintage butthurt re same ^
mircea_popescu: "he's not really a monkey, he's just a sarin gas peddler"
mircea_popescu: sound defense.
mod6: NoSuchLabs: Congrats!
asciilifeform: ty mod6
mircea_popescu: now buy one!
mod6: haha, i certainly will. probably wont be order for a day or so... think you'll have enough to meet the demand?
mod6: *be able to order
mircea_popescu: that all depends on teh demand.
mircea_popescu: but we'll fill the orders in order so.
mod6: fair enough.
asciilifeform has monumentally 0 idea how much demand.
mircea_popescu: " I thought just moving your mouse or doing something on the computer already fills up /dev/random, and it's only a big problem on major servers. Is this not right?" << there's a SHOCKING amount of this. nsa's doing god's work with these people, absolutely.
asciilifeform: nah you fill it up with... piss, y'see. 'tis why serious server has that little flap on top. pop, unzip, fill.
asciilifeform: gotta wonder -- any of these folx ever generate gpg key..?
mircea_popescu: sure, as part of their education at tu berlin.
asciilifeform: aaaa yes
asciilifeform switches on... air conditioner
asciilifeform: yes, on dec. 1st.
mircea_popescu: mine's been running all day.
asciilifeform: well yes but.
mircea_popescu: theoretically it's 15 celsisus in wash dc ?
mircea_popescu: wet huh. here too. exactly same temp, but 100% humidity.
mircea_popescu: aaaand... we're sold out on the 1st batch o.O
davout: mircea_popescu asciilifeform congratulations
mircea_popescu: holy shit that was ... one hour at like 1am
mircea_popescu: anyway. will be building tons so. put your order in we'll get to it.
mod6: ok. bummed cause i just got the mailing shit all setup
mircea_popescu: sorry mod6 ;/
mircea_popescu: but i promise you you will not be left without k!
mod6: but will place order tomorrow then proll.y
mircea_popescu: ty davout !
BingoBoingo: December is already awesome
BingoBoingo: And thing's only 6 hours old
mircea_popescu: uh. did the blockchain just fork ?!
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Current Blocks: 441388 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 115 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: 441386 (Merkle Root c8f8c5889e5d8d61c40f23cbb9b9e60a809c1d516a69834379aa68f7467d8857 Hash 000000000000000002e85349ac1deb78507a9d9a514ba2cd439c1a537c248c56 ) doesn't seem to verify.
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep and panic
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this new wonder.
mircea_popescu: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks?height=441386 << ben_vulpes 's thing eats it up fine.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess BingoBoingo has it. ima see what the girls are up to.
jhvh1: 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
BingoBoingo: Also, tits
danielpbarron: !~bible proverbs 3:5
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 3:5 :: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
mircea_popescu: holy shit they broke bitcoin
mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/tx/2ca768252bf2db0f9631a90275f8a4580f8d1f4b692da571354e12954e7bd462 << nonstandard subsidy txn
mircea_popescu: bullshit btcc pool "oh we'll be creative and send 2.5 cents to a buncha addresses" psssh.
mircea_popescu: anyway. legacy prb clients need >10 minutes to disentangle that sorta shit fwiw.
thestringpuller: court ruled against Coinbase favor. IRS to get 2 years of Bitcoin user records and identities
mircea_popescu: well at least coinbase did everything to protect its users /s
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-november-2016-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2016 Statement
mircea_popescu: jurov added.
shinohai: !~later tell mod6 V is not including the the privkey vpatch during sync, has it not been added to site yet? (Building the new thing you posted last night)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Current Blocks: 441432 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 71 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 35 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun see any unusual wedge
asciilifeform: ( though zoolag is blackholed, it is not unusual, sits like this half the time )
asciilifeform: dulap is at 441430 with 18 users
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the conclusion is, 2k+ txn blocks took significant time on old clients ; and this made them exceed the 10min magic delay and trip an alert.
asciilifeform: aaaah lul alert
mircea_popescu: last block is 441432 ftr.
mircea_popescu: you're two behind.
asciilifeform: trb is very often 2-7 behind
mircea_popescu: not ben_vulpes' !
mircea_popescu is becoming very impressed with mimi's brunhr!
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28ED0A651B3CF9434A08A486D6073700042996FE39715688490B8245C1E17A74 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2203...4973 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.blanquart.com. BE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A9596A947316B01B3CE306D21FD40C79BB509337CA019E9FA0C3F3B47C42565D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2518...3779 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '220.127.116.11 (ssh-rsa key from 18.104.22.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (90-164-111-65.serverpronto.com. US FL)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the final solution, incidentally, is parallel-verify. but we dun have it yet
asciilifeform: largely because of the 'don't clean the air filter' tale mircea_popescu told asciilifeform et al on the shore in buenos aires
asciilifeform: but also because of the global-locks-everywhere horror in the thing, it is nontrivial to parallelize anything therein.
mircea_popescu: still a good candidate for the next city's hill.
mircea_popescu: "Whenever I got a team ready to be really useful, there would be a bizarre negative reaction from all sorts of other people who were employed within the same organizations, but were not part of the teams I was working with. Sometimes this effect was so strong it could become a workplace hazard, and it always grew until the teams themselves were no longer able to function." <<< mediocrity is not a lack of intelligence, it is i
mircea_popescu: ntelligence entirely dedicated to the task of survival.
jurov: S.QNTR distributed.
asciilifeform: what is the source for the quote mircea_popescu ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:01 adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575187 << first log appearance for this, led me to http://www.the-programmers-stone.com/about which makes two preposterous claims in one sentence before i've even scrolled down once: "I discovered that (almost) everyone can become a super-programmer, and with a crew of super-programmers, gelled teams form up naturally."
mircea_popescu: my mind's eye foresees a time when all comms will consist of this. gossipd over irc!
asciilifeform: http://22.214.171.124/apache2-default/ << lel, 'what shall i do today... oh, i know, build a box with DIDDLED DEBIAN and then leave it running on DEFAULT knobs!111 for years'
mircea_popescu: lol. i guess if anyone needed hosting...
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A4D0A43B8105A91195E7C706247E4DE8EED21304BD3EAE7A68DD9052BCBF093 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1630...1167 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blue86.crsc.kmitl.ac.th. TH)
asciilifeform: King Mongkut's Institute of Technology << lel
asciilifeform: https://media.8ch.net/file_store/25dda0c2ebe8121b92b66da5f54a83f9a1b41fa2c22721fde9fa92090d41b18d.png << from last night's heathen pit excursions
jurov: deedbot: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20161201/attachment.txt?sha1=3ebec7e118a9f69ad2fe87574a11430a955fae9e
jurov: !!deed http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20161201/attachment.txt?sha1=3ebec7e118a9f69ad2fe87574a11430a955fae9e
deedbot: accepted: 1
mod6: shinohai: yeah, for now, it's just in the email. you can just grab the attachments and place them where they belong. i'll place them both in the mirror at some point, not too long
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> https://blockchain.info/tx/2ca768252bf2db0f9631a90275f8a4580f8d1f4b692da571354e12954e7bd462 << nonstandard subsidy txn << motherfuckers.
mod6: thanks jurov
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A9596A947316B01B3CE306D21FD40C79BB509337CA019E9FA0C3F3B47C42565D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1405...0513 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (90-164-111-65.serverpronto.com. US FL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A4D0A43B8105A91195E7C706247E4DE8EED21304BD3EAE7A68DD9052BCBF093 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1454...1553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (blue86.crsc.kmitl.ac.th. TH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28ED0A651B3CF9434A08A486D6073700042996FE39715688490B8245C1E17A74 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.blanquart.com. BE)
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-05#1553299 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575375 << :D :D :D :D
a111: Logged on 2016-10-05 17:22 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-05#1553270 << I would buy an in-WoT RNG yesterday.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 04:11 mircea_popescu: and in other news : http://nosuchlabs.com/ << can now order FUCKGOATS
trinque will be placing an order soon
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575516 <<< >>> https://4ic.be >> ' Eusip bvba - Thunderbox.net | Serveman 1.3' >> http://www.thunderbox.net >> wat
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:26 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/28ED0A651B3CF9434A08A486D6073700042996FE39715688490B8245C1E17A74 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...3777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server.blanquart.com. BE)
asciilifeform: 'Eusip Bvba is the independent and autonomous company behind the projects RACK66 and former projects as Thunderbox and FragFun. The company was founded in 2003 by Internetpioneers who know the market very well and felt the need for a new kind of concept for services as: hosting, housing, managed services, pre installed servers and online gaming....'
shinohai: No worries mod6 ..... the new patch did fine, nice work getting that out so quickly
asciilifeform: unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel
asciilifeform: (this is a ЕГГОГ and does 0 but shows up in a lulzlog)
shinohai: Maybe they need an rng to generate a key first. >.>
asciilifeform: lel but you don't need a key of your own
asciilifeform: to use the snsa ordertron
asciilifeform: (idiot pgp still needs 256 rng bits for aes session keys, when transmitting, and this is own can of lolworms)
shinohai: I have a whole btctalk thread regarding peoples lack of following simple instructions.
trinque: see: planet earth
asciilifeform: likely there is also certain amount of 'here's a button, what happens if i press'
trinque: asciilifeform: congrats on shipping your first product !
trinque: as No Such Labs anyway.
asciilifeform: trinque: ty. but this is a pre-order, the actual widgets have not left factory yet.
trinque: a ok
asciilifeform: (they are , i am told, being packaged for shipment as we speak )
mod6: shinohai: the rawtx one or the privkey_tools ?
shinohai: mod6: rawtx patch
mod6: cool. we'll have to discuss some testing scenarios later today or whatever.
shinohai: Yes I haven't done much with it yet besides verify the bitcoind snarfs blocks and that the flag produces a message
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575340 << buildroot exclusively generates linux binaries, so any bsd build has to be done manually. but fwiw my openbsd patch still works and still produces a working trb
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:52 mod6: shinohai: well, at one point the one patch we had made that possible, but with buildroot now in the mix, im not sure. would have to be dug into.
trinque: phf: where's that patch at btw?
asciilifeform: buildroot, at least as seen in 'rotor', is not necessary on bsd!! there is no glibc there !! afaik static linking works normally on known bsd
asciilifeform: buildroot as i used it here, was a pill against drepperism
asciilifeform: so as to build static, musltronic binary.
phf: asciilifeform: oh so it doesn't crosscompile? i though buildroot explicitly builds all own gcc and family etc
asciilifeform: on linux. where otherwise it dun go.
phf: trinque: i'm wondering myself :D i thought it's on btcbase, but apparently not
asciilifeform: phf: in principle it ought to work on bsd etc. but will shit out a linux binary, unless you were to fiddle with it rather heavily. but i do not see why to do this.
asciilifeform: is musl necessary on *bsd ?? i have nfi, but did think that bsd's libc were mostly sane
asciilifeform: (and certainly static-able)
phf: oh i misunderstood your original sentence, yeah, we are on the same page
phf: i think bsd patch might predate v
asciilifeform: phf's definitely does
asciilifeform: iirc he also had a mac patch
mod6: yeah, it predates v im sure. i'll dig up the email...
asciilifeform: tbh i do not have a clear picture of what use a trb-on-mac might be to anyone, given as the thing needs to be up 24/7 for any practical battlefield value
mod6: I think it was this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000118.html
asciilifeform: perhaps - just for testing, some folx might be stuck on crapple for whatever reason.
mod6: phf beat me. lol.
asciilifeform: 'of note, previously static compilation on OpenBSD resulted in segmentation fault. this is due to libpthread not being fully linked into the final static binary...' << what did this dig lead to , phf ?
asciilifeform: is openbsd in fact 'drepperized' after all ?
phf: asciilifeform: no, it's a gcc bug that's present on all systems
phf: i think it only manifests on openbsd
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder what else, and where else, is 'not fully statically linkable' and where.
phf: asciilifeform: https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52590#c4 (the last comment)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform internet prion-eers from 2003.
mircea_popescu: i'm a fucking pioneer, been doing it since the last millenium!
asciilifeform: phf: lemme get this straight, ~all~ pthread proggies hosed on openbsd?!
asciilifeform: (at least such as are built on gcc ..?)
asciilifeform blows dust off openbsd 'libretto'
asciilifeform: and btw holy FUCK is that thing slow. SLOW. in the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300 sense. i can literally feel every disk write.
phf: asciilifeform: ~on all systems~ ~static linking~ of pthread is ~not guaranteed~ to work
asciilifeform: i dun think i have ever visited the mighty land of Guaranteed To Work
asciilifeform: it lies far away, across seven seas, or so i heard.
phf: "On some Linux distributions libpthread.a
phf: has all the objects linked together with ld -r and therefore this will just work there, on others you need -Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" (from comment)
phf: researching the problem i came across a lot of "my static linked openbsd program just crashes! ... ... -lpthread ... ...", but also a handful of linux ones
asciilifeform: and speaking of shitware, https://archive.is/91uFx ( moar detail -- https://archive.is/0Dxzi ) -- memory corruption 'oops' in linux kernel ipv6 stack.
asciilifeform: Just Say No to ipv6.
asciilifeform: phf: crash how, at warmup, or randomly as it goes ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575521 << with any luck it'll come in before 2nd batch is spoken for lol
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:29 trinque will be placing an order soon
mircea_popescu: i had no idea what hotcakes means prior to FUCKGOATS
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:51 asciilifeform: unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:54 asciilifeform: (idiot pgp still needs 256 rng bits for aes session keys, when transmitting, and this is own can of lolworms)
phf: asciilifeform: that's a good question, i haven't isolated the bug, but i'm pretty sure on openbsd crashes instantaneously. note that c++ threads are involved, so perhaps they try to initialize things even before you start using them?
phf: ooh fuckgoats
mircea_popescu: it's FUCKGOATS!!1
phf: asciilifeform: is usb convertable to rs-232 with a ~limited~ application of soldering iron?
asciilifeform: lower-case fuckgoats are simply goats, such that are supplied to bagram airbase for the troops to fuck.
asciilifeform: phf: nein, read the doc, the head comes off
asciilifeform: (subj device speaks ordinary rs232 at TTL voltage, gets converted to the desired end by standard dongle)
asciilifeform: at no point is usb converted to anything.
mircea_popescu: are pthreads even a good thing ?
asciilifeform: they're part of the 'grandfather's pistol'.
asciilifeform: (and ~every other old pistol we have)
asciilifeform: phf: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/heads.jpg : two example usb heads (battery for scale strictly)
phf: sos tinys
asciilifeform: (the rs232 db-9 serial heads are not here yet, crate should be in shortly )
asciilifeform: the pictured converters are quite common and the folks who played with 'pogo' already have some.
asciilifeform: original design of FUCKGOATS featured on-board usb. was removed quite deliberately.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 14:36 mircea_popescu: speaking of above article, can i get a commitment to never signing any V material which includes any non-ascii characters ? BingoBoingo diana_coman hanbot trinque mod6 danielpbarron mircea_popescu mike_c asciilifeform davout ben_vulpes phf jurov
asciilifeform: perhaps this is a good time and place to say why. in short -- specificity-of-diddling theorem.
phf: it's a right and proper design
asciilifeform: the only usb-speaking ICs on the market with no PERSISTENT FLASH STATE are all usb-to-rs232ttl converters anyway
phf: (i finished the docs)
asciilifeform: so why bother to pay to have it soldered to the board.
asciilifeform: it lives separately.
asciilifeform: and comes from wherever you like, incl. the back of your desk drawer
asciilifeform: (they've been around since late 1990s when usb became common, in one form or another)
asciilifeform: again, in case this was not clear, the two boards pictured are consumer products, sold for 1-3 $ / ea. just about anywhere.
asciilifeform: 'Amongst some people, such confusion has been elevated to a philosophical ideology. I once watched a very lost group working near to me, who had spent months trying to print out a graph. It was all very complicated for them. Eventually they decided to purchase a third party graph drawing component, which advertised that it could print out graphs. After considerable administration they obtained a binary library, which they were not th
asciilifeform: en able to link. One day it became apparent that the component extended a base class of the Qt graphics toolkit, while their program used MFC. Foolishly, I ventured to suggest that if the base class wasn’t available, a derived class couldn’t be linked to it. One of the workers informed me that this was “my opinion”. I should have left it alone, I know. But I used to work in a useful industry. I explained that it was a simple
asciilifeform: fact that if the base library dependency isn’t there, the component can’t link to it. He looked at me and said, “There are no facts, there are only opinions, and all opinions are equal.” ...'
asciilifeform: ^ from phf / adlai / mircea_popescu 's link earlier
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder, how come i never met these folx.
asciilifeform: the 'missing library cannot be linked -- is merely OPINION' people.
asciilifeform: do they live anywhere outside of caricature ? normally dysfunction is more subtle.
asciilifeform: 1st line of subj article , 'For decades we have known that some people are 25 times more productive than most in software engineering jobs. ...' is correct, but the remaining article gets the cause/effect relationship backwards
jurov: i guess they specialize to very different niches of govt ecosystem than alf
asciilifeform: folx who WANT to do the thing they are doing -- or at least have genuine desire to hold in their hands the end result, $widget, $proggy , and not merely the week's paycheque -- give the impression of the '25x productive'
asciilifeform: and where they are found, they are kept in comfortable conditions, or even spared the idiocy of commuting to offices etc.
asciilifeform: elsewhere, in butugychags, folx doing things no sane person would voluntarily consider doing, are, yes, warehoused, as author describes
asciilifeform: but giving ~them~ soundproof boxes etc. simply results on moar tetris-man-hours.
asciilifeform: i thought this was known to pretty much everyone in the field since... '70s..? but apparently not
asciilifeform: see also mircea_popescu's thread about the filipino bordello, with the 400 beds.
jurov: sorry, pls what was that "25 times more productive" link? somwhow can't find it in the log
asciilifeform: pretty typical 'mistreated programmers' piece
asciilifeform: i find it interesting that the authors of these (and there are many) virtually never mention even approx. ~what~ their 'super team' of 'super people' was DOING
asciilifeform: as if it were not at all relevant...
asciilifeform: ( and what precisely could be a motivation, in moribund american megacorp where 'proverbial' programmer always seems to work, to 'super' ? 1% bonus ? to be fired three months later than the next-best team ? better potato ration ? which..? )
phf: when i said "programmers stone" i meant papers published by blog's author in 97 or so, which are very vague and speculative but had some interesting ideas about programming. most references to subj in oldfag circles result in "oh yeaaah i member" reaction. the blog has not much to do with original
phf: http://www.programmersstone.com are the original, and c2 discussion http://wiki.c2.com/?ProgrammersStone
asciilifeform: phf: happen to have a preserved copy of any of these ?
ben_vulpes: congrats on FUCKGOATS, asciilifeform!
asciilifeform: ty ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes already owns 1/3 (by mass...) of a complete unit !1111
ben_vulpes: tru tru
asciilifeform: phf: lol, it was same d00d as the infamous 'mappers and packers' thing?!!
ben_vulpes: and a pike of entropy sitting in the corner
phf: asciilifeform: it ~is~ the infamous mappers and packers thing, m&p is first chapter
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 01:24 mircea_popescu: I blame Eric Raymond and to a lesser extent Dave Winer for bringing this kind of schlock writing onto the Internet. Raymond is the original perpetrator of the "what is a hacker?" essay, in which you quickly begin to understand that a hacker is someone who resembles Eric Raymond. Dave Winer has recently and mercifully moved his essays off to audio, but you can still hear him snorfling cashew nuts and talking at length about wh
asciilifeform: asciilifeform refers to this genre of writing as '10th-dimension', after infamous pseudoscientific b00k/www by same name, which consisted of highly refined 'imponade' (to borrow naggum's) , that is, writing designed to pull the reader's intellectual cock and give a sensation of 'profound insight', 'yes, NAO i UNDERSTAND FIZZZIX!' or similar.
asciilifeform: 'it ALL falls into place!1'
phf: well, yeah, it's cybermysticism :) follows a long tradition that well predates eric raymond
asciilifeform: important ingredient is the lack of mathematical or any other pre-requisite that a reader might lack and thereby stumble, or provoke feeling of inferiority
asciilifeform: reader must feel 'on the throne' merely by act of reading.
phf: i would've prefered criticism that involved quotes (since there are plenty of things to make fun of), rather than a somehwat off mark general trash talking
asciilifeform: quote of 'programmer stone' ? we had a number of these earlier in thread ?
asciilifeform: or some other work
phf: those quotes are from blog, not the original site
phf: earlier in thread that is
asciilifeform: so where can i see original site
phf: i just linked it to you ffs
asciilifeform: that was c2 page on subj, no ?
asciilifeform: there was not an earlier document ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:46 phf: http://www.programmersstone.com are the original, and c2 discussion http://wiki.c2.com/?ProgrammersStone
phf: but anyway, the reason why i mentioned it, and the one thing of value that i derived from progstone is the idea of stess addiction. i'm not sure about the mechanism that he proposes, but identifying and neutralizing sources of needless stress served me well for many years since i read it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had a pretty good handle on subj, though i have misplaced the relevant piece. the one where he described two basic outcomes of the traditional western crippling of schoolchildren, and they roughly correspond to the 'mapper' and 'packer' portrayed here, and in 'bipolar lisp programmer', and other similar essays.
asciilifeform: phf: stands to reason that if adrenergic dopes are addictive, likewise so would be ordinary adrenaline
phf: also made me rather mistrustful of a lot of "hacker culture" elements, like too much coffee, night hacking, after hour sprints, weekend hacking, all things that i've confirmed from experience to contributing to atrocious code
asciilifeform: the 'culture' was, as i gather, never actually ~about~ the code, but... about the coffee; the shared deathmarches; the dope; the sensory deprivation bottles; the 'scene'; and other pretenses.
asciilifeform: the code - was incidental. which is why it today is going the way of the snake's legs, or the f35's wings and engine.
asciilifeform: hence 'gender git commits'
asciilifeform: briefly revisiting upstack, imho 'mapper' and 'packer' as depicted in the essays are only 'types of people' in the sense that there were two types of inmate at auschwitz - folx who immediately jumped the fence and died on the wire, and ones who 'checked out' and turned 'Muselmann' ;
asciilifeform: two different reactions to being killed with boredom -- daydream and gabriel_laddel around ('mapper') -- or, alternatively, -- 'mindless robot' ('packer'), typical caricature of 'cube dweller', 'dilbert'.
asciilifeform: only the latter, notably, results in the inmate/employee being of some residual use to his owner, so 'corporate culture' is unsurprisingly built around utilization of this type, and the speedy ejection of the other one.
asciilifeform: because how else.
phf: i always thought that kind of classification is "people like me and people not like me", but i like your take too.
asciilifeform: i cannot speak for other inmates, but i have lived as both of these animals.
asciilifeform: and because of this, have difficulty picturing them as fixed 'types' from birth.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i must disagree, i was quite close to, e.g., 'v', for very long time before finally wrote it.
asciilifeform: how's that plug in ?
phf: the first part of writing happens in a mapper mode, i.e. daydreaming for lack of better word before any kind of code is actually written, second in packer i.e. actual typing. that's also when cocaine/caffeine/aderal might help
asciilifeform: 'packing', and brute labour of whatever other kind, also can have sensation of 'inch away', read the tales of athletes in training, alpinists, pilots.
asciilifeform: and aha, 'inca marching powders' etc.
asciilifeform: but quite destructive to folx who are doing equivalent of ~planning~ the march
asciilifeform: which is why i said to laddel 'dope requires discipline', because a lone programmer in a cellar is both general and soldier
phf: plan with vodka, execute with cocaine -- stalin
asciilifeform: or, i will add for completeness, both -- sober. also worx for some folx.
asciilifeform: but quite certainly not 'vodka -- vodka' or 'cocaine -- cocaine'
asciilifeform: these -- proven failure.
asciilifeform: 'cocaine -- vodka' gives you usg.
asciilifeform: also undesirable combination.
jhvh1: shinohai: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
phf: haha, most definitely. cocaine is all the upper echelons (the drug of choice on capitol hill), alcohol is for the grunts. aspiring managers notably prefer vodka redbulls are a nodick compromise
phf: *as a
trinque: who is this person that felt like they could figure things out on cocaine? then later saw that they in fact, had.
trinque has advocated various dopes in the past solely because they were fun, like camping is fun, but I don't write code camping either. I camp.
asciilifeform: trinque: probably the folx who erdos for decade on single 100g bottle of it and will take secret to the grave.
asciilifeform: and take it every other month.
trinque is not particularly addiction prone
trinque: smokes for bit, stops cold one day. same experience with the powdery one.
trinque: still didn't feel superhuman on either; more like excited dog that has to sniff everything in a loop
phf: i'd like to mention that sherlock holmes used cocaine ~only~ in between cases
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes danke.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575483 << yeah mine is rarely even 1 behind, frequently ahead of bc.info and frenz
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 13:01 mircea_popescu: not ben_vulpes' !
asciilifeform: phf: i distinctly recall ~one~ case where he injects while thinking
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575631 << mandatory link to " It was impressive in a way to see Protagoras's sophism alive and well after 2500 years." http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/arsdigita-greenspun.html
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:27 asciilifeform: fact that if the base library dependency isn’t there, the component can’t link to it. He looked at me and said, “There are no facts, there are only opinions, and all opinions are equal.” ...'
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575637 << alf also isn't exactly a social butterfly.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:30 jurov: i guess they specialize to very different niches of govt ecosystem than alf
ben_vulpes: one of the few psyochoactive experiments left on my list is the eyedropper bottle of cocaine/alcohol solution
shinohai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven-Per-Cent_Solution <<< Holmes later went to Dr. Sigmund Freud's rehab clinic in Vienna
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you ever examined the nasal septum of long term coke whore ?
asciilifeform not even very serious antisocial butterfly !
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: why this vs. in soda?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: indeed have, why do you ask?
jurov: ben_vulpes: already tried eyedropping tobacco extract? not very psychoactive but very purifying instead
asciilifeform: for the cocaethylene ?
mircea_popescu: because i can't conceive why'd you want to do that to your cornea.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: there's a metabolite that comes out when digestion booze and coke together
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nah, traditional oral application
mircea_popescu: oh, eyedropper on tongue ?
ben_vulpes: good idea though! i've dropped many a dose of 'acid' into 'friends' eyeballs.
mircea_popescu sees eyedropper, expects eye.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: or even more dilute, through a whole cocktail
mircea_popescu: (this is how hitler got his, famously)
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: coca-cola, not booze...
ben_vulpes: OCD TITRATION
gabriel_laddel_p: but it seems we are on the same page.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to morrel, the fuhrer took his 'vitamins' injected every morning and at lunch
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: it is the poor modern americans resynthesis of the original coke + booze cocktails
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall an eyedropped thing, but w/e ianae
gabriel_laddel_p: I cannot currently up myself, but have registered a new key for gabriel_laddel_p
trinque: and he was just about to win the war, even!
asciilifeform: !!key gabriel_laddel_p
ben_vulpes: lol what is that a lisp predicate joke gabriel_laddel_p ?
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p so is this actually going to be your key or are you gonna lose it in six weeks ?
asciilifeform: !!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 possibly == gabriel_laddel
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/IgeET/?raw=true
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: I'm going to recover my old key, sign this one.
asciilifeform: !!v B87AE47F1D988F4D67F9D1552817CBF74A7458EC771E28481318FC165A4D85F0
deedbot: asciilifeform rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << possibly == gabriel_laddel
shinohai: Lamport parachute or it didn't happen.
mircea_popescu: !!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 Crazed Cali Kid, but at least banging his head against a goldmine rather than a brick wall.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/aM9Mf/?raw=true
asciilifeform: shinohai: d00d ejected, it seems, without a parachute.
mircea_popescu: !!v CADE8827752416FE04C18CBB70886AE4B6573C376EE93B81A4FA771DCFE2ABE9
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << Crazed Cali Kid, but at least banging his head against a goldmine rather than a brick wall.
trinque: !!rate gabriel_laddel_p 1 will replace with old rating when key ownership is proved
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/KFFVA/?raw=true
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: next you get a postbox
trinque: !!v 96533527176896B9F4A475C5B768571233BAC59F4CF81F8F856087FD87EA6855
deedbot: trinque rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << will replace with old rating when key ownership is proved
mircea_popescu: first we take manhattan...
mircea_popescu: THEN WE TAKE BERLIN!
asciilifeform was going to say !111 ^
asciilifeform: BERLIN, FRITZES!11
asciilifeform: ( speaking of this, almost let this slip by! http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575332 << poor decimation ! )
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:42 shinohai: This may be the best story I have seen all day: Former gay porn actor turned German spy arrested for secretly being a Jihadist http://archive.is/9SQqY
asciilifeform: ^ for some reason i picture the protagonist of subj as him !
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575648 << this is because you are invited to bond. girls bitching to other girls about their bfs ALSO don't actually say what they're doing.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:41 asciilifeform: i find it interesting that the authors of these (and there are many) virtually never mention even approx. ~what~ their 'super team' of 'super people' was DOING
asciilifeform: they assume that 'everyone does same thing'
asciilifeform: so it gets #include'd
mircea_popescu: not even. they assume that everyone's an imbecile, and therefore will discuss what's said. so if they tell you about the money they spent you'll discuss money spent and if they tell you about his abs you'll discuss abs.
mircea_popescu: because nobody has any shade of completeness left anywhere.
mircea_popescu: and consequently : he simply does not want it to be a discussion about that, so he doesn't mention it.
asciilifeform: perhaps it was a mistake to teach pigs to speak.
mircea_popescu: he doesn't even realise that this is moo-ing for moo-ers, not discourse for people.
asciilifeform: cows - also.
mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that the brain is not a reasoning engine. in a very purely naturalistic, bio-logical way, this is sensible. the practice of "talk to the text, not context or subtext" has become established through moo practice
mircea_popescu: much like the meaning of "established" itself.
asciilifeform: no more than legs are ballet engine
mircea_popescu: no, legs actually are ballet engine.
mircea_popescu: brain is not reasoning engine in the sense rectum is not vagina.
asciilifeform: it is why asciilifeform is sympathetic to the 'gabriel_laddel's dope' pov : the degree of contortion involved in serious engineering , mentally, is every bit as much a self-abuse as to take any known dope
asciilifeform: brain - does not go along willingly.
mircea_popescu: the recent trilema byline about mediocrity conversely states "there is no perversity other than thinking"
trinque: asciilifeform: what is this external thing that the brain wont go along with willingly?
asciilifeform: actually mediocrity ~does~ consist of the places to which brain goes willingly.
mircea_popescu: trinque the structure of representation qua representation does not particularly match the structure of reality qua reality.
asciilifeform: trinque: think back to own education, childhood
trinque: I was the kid who voraciously wanted to learn, ended up tiring of starving, went wandering in the woods for food.
trinque: it is a strange creature that resists learning, or work.
mircea_popescu: consider the illustrative case of physics. newtonian mechanics (representation structured as representation) is valuable because a) it works in representative terms, ie, math and b) matches observable reality. but there is no objective relation between a and b, which is why science fiction can exist for instance ; and also why the only thing that can be said about nm is that it's ... not correct.
mircea_popescu: same holds for nm v2.0 aka qm.
mircea_popescu: none of this is much more than observing that you know, "in theory there's no difference between theory and practice..." ie, the represented difference between representation and reality reduces to a representation.
trinque: I am trying to digest the perspective that one must beat himself to behave according to his own model of reality, subjectively.
trinque: how can that be so when it implies an infinite regression of models of his world
gabriel_laddel_p: I should have been a little more specific earlier re: why cocaine in particular, or meth (in particular) would be useful IN MY SITUATION. I think it would be useful when you find yourself on a forced march in the sense that you MUST stay awake for a few hours longer than you normally would have, perhaps on the company of people who you should proba
gabriel_laddel_p: bly socialize with prior to getting a new place to crash / drop masamunes off.
mod6: asciilifeform: did you guys take down the order form for fuckgoats?
mod6: I aquired a box, so was just gonna re-read some of the stuff and place an order later tonight.
gabriel_laddel_p: both substances allow you to remain lucid after a long time with little sleep
asciilifeform: mod6: no, did you have trouble loading ?
mod6: i didn't see a link. i'm probably an idiot.
gabriel_laddel_p off to sell machines, later.
trinque: gabriel_laddel_p: k, now describe the iterated case.
asciilifeform: mats: page is all there, box -- not in any sense hammered; should load normally
asciilifeform: mod6 ^ rather
phf: trinque: all voracious learners i know eventually hit the point, where acquiring knowledge/skill requires significant amount of self abuse. the kind of abuse in question is the actual, physical pain that you experience in your head, when for example trying to grok math analysis. only people who never experienced that are jacks of all trades who bail before that point (or mythical genuises who never hit their limits before death, i know
asciilifeform: and ^^^
asciilifeform: phf has it.
trinque: thinking hard is not abuse
mod6: ooooh. i see what the problem was. the homepage doesn't have a link to 'shop'. after clicking on 'the real bitcoin' link, then was taken to that page, where a 'shop' link exists.
asciilifeform: mod6: your browser cache may be stale
asciilifeform: all of the pages should have same link
mod6: oh, aight. will clear.
mod6: doesn't seem to resolve the issue. but w/e. less people in line in front of me!
asciilifeform: mod6: link ?
trinque: this dope topic is a perfect example. I was making a similar "psychedelics open your mind, man" argument a year or two ago, and mp thoroughly trashed the argument.
trinque: when this occurred, I changed my perspective. to not do so is insanity.
mod6: and btw, i get a 401 auth required when trying to hit: www.nosuchlabs.com
asciilifeform: lol i have nfi
asciilifeform: btw who is 18.104.22.168 , your browser is in an infinite loop
mod6: but, i don't have a link handy for ya or anything, it's just 'http://nosuchlabs.com' in a private-window with all history cleared, no 'shop' link in menu bar.
trinque: I would say one of the functions of a republic is to do precisely this, i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1533200
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 19:52 trinque: http://trilema.com/2016/the-bickening/ << /me perceives more of "republic describes the structure of meaning" here
trinque: when you encounter the truth, it better flip bits in your skull, or you are broken. this includes "I must build/learn/etc X"
asciilifeform: mod6: try now.
asciilifeform: (www.... and bare link)
asciilifeform: ^ anyone else saw what mod6 saw ??
asciilifeform: and how about now ?
mircea_popescu: trinque it has to be so ; so as to prevent the reality-representation tandem from going into positive feedback.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575840 << he will no doubt be less than pleased to hear that i can / historically have stayed up for days at a stretch because i wanted to. it's all in the brain, man!
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:57 trinque: this dope topic is a perfect example. I was making a similar "psychedelics open your mind, man" argument a year or two ago, and mp thoroughly trashed the argument.
mod6: so now, i see that 'nosuchlabs.com' homepage is the 'fuckgoats' page -- no middle finger
mod6: and the shop link is on there.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575841 << yes, but this is not really what's discussed here. obviously when you grok something you grok something. but in order to get yourserlf to where you grok something, you invariably have to do something "out of character". there has to be some pressure. "and at that moment x was enlightened" specifically says "x abused himself to the point of", but nobody wants to notice.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:57 trinque: when this occurred, I changed my perspective. to not do so is insanity.
mircea_popescu: that ~nobody wants to notice~ is the very point. yes, once the spot on the sleeve is pointed out it stands out. and before it wasn't there.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/01/out-with-trudeau-in-with-oleary/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Out with Trudeau. In with O’Leary.
mircea_popescu: (which is why the whole "nobody could have predicted" is such an endearingly stupid exercise in ignorance pleading, but whatevers)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575666 << "i fucking love science!" there's a lot of these.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 17:55 asciilifeform: 'it ALL falls into place!1'
mircea_popescu: for a while a very popular ~tv format~ was this string of factoids going in a sort of free association from a noun back again to it. the whole thing read too fast and with "bbc noises" in the background (you know the idiocy, chimes intended to propose THE IMPORTANT IS OCCURING!)
trinque: mircea_popescu: aha, and the dope runs heavy risk of false-positive "did something useful out of character"
mircea_popescu: "mice were found in germany which is a country that once invaded the soviet union where lenin introduced electricity which goes through tubes in which tubes today in england most mices live." "OH NOW IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE!!!"
trinque: but whatever, we can have two sanitarium-goers
mircea_popescu: trinque try as i might i fail to see self-administered medication in any better light than self-mixed gasoline. "oh, my fuel mix gives me much better power and gas mileage". meanwhile derp drives a fucking honda and has an evil eye pendant dangling from the rear view mirror.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure he MEASURED this shit.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 19:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575840 << he will no doubt be less than pleased to hear that i can / historically have stayed up for days at a stretch because i wanted to. it's all in the brain, man!
mircea_popescu: if only the exxon people had thought to mix mountain berries and chalk powder into the damned thing. but the anti-berry lobby is keeping a lid on things.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. who throws cars ?
asciilifeform: pcp eaters.
mircea_popescu: much likelier they give themselves tendon fractures.
asciilifeform: well yes, each gets to throw 1 car.
asciilifeform: then -- done.
mircea_popescu: wtf, a crane is like 100 bux an hour already. why throw cars.
asciilifeform: most of the things 'plankton' do on done, there is equally little actual reason to do any of.
asciilifeform: *on dope
phf: this goes back to the whole computer as an intelligence augmentation thread we had
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, i find it deeply regrettable that fuel teas aren't fashionable. imagine, if people actualyl did plant mix decoctions to mix in their gas tanks.
mircea_popescu: they could have a web forum dedicated to debating formulas...
asciilifeform: this almost exists.
mircea_popescu: like... camomille is good for reducing wear and mint is good for you know, that extra kick uphill
phf: mircea_popescu: it exists! with diesel from trash crowd
mircea_popescu: no but i mean, something equivalent to the fortified wine / bitter craze of the 1700/1800s.
mircea_popescu: the stuff that gave us strega and campari and whatnot. "secret family recipe. blessed by pope! 500 plants!"
asciilifeform: the correct analogy here, at least in re dopes that actually DO something, is nitro.
mircea_popescu: the occasional death in a garage fireball because idiot had leaky still...
mircea_popescu: "no doubt it was a hit by the anti-tea-gasoline lobby because he knew too much"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nitro dundo nuttin on stock engine.
mircea_popescu: and i have yet to see people who altered their neurons prior to doping.
asciilifeform: 'dundu nuttin' is not exactly correct.
phf: jack parsons blowing himself up has similar thread of mystical and paranoid interpretations
mircea_popescu: though this is a decent sf premise, imagine if nanotech allows one to drill implants into each neuron
mircea_popescu: and then you hafta whatever, eat wd40
asciilifeform: incidentally it is not inconceivable that some of the natural variation in wakefulness, pain tolerance, etc. among people reduces to something that one could - to an extent - chemically scam into existence
mircea_popescu: i have personally repaired malfunctioning electronics with a well placed hit to the side.
asciilifeform: (though afaik no known dope falls squarely into this category, the discovery of thyroid hormone almost falls in )
asciilifeform: the observation about 'nitro in a stock engine' is not untrue: idiots who take stim produce idiocy 10x faster, because they are unaccustomed to the horsepower and have nfi where to put it, their crankshaft simply bends
mircea_popescu: and ftr in the "Self administered medication" above i don't just count "performance enhancing psychoactives" but also colodial silver, large servings of c vitamin and for that matter fucking steroids.
mircea_popescu runs into dude, dumb as fucking doornail, "o man, everything's better on roids. you gotta juice man. you gotta!"
mircea_popescu: with some regularity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are 2 basic magisteria of self-medicators -- where the dope actually does something; and where not
asciilifeform: (in the case of the latter -- placebocin still works magic!!)
mircea_popescu: everything "does something".
mircea_popescu: eat enough blueberry extract you'll poop purple for chrissakes.
asciilifeform: something, let's say, superficially resembling the intended effect
phf knows some hippies to who refer to psychedelic mushrooms as "medicine" and stick to the whole medical terminology throughout. mind you they take them at festivals, but "for medicinal purposes"
asciilifeform pictures a penicillin festival
mircea_popescu: phf hey, the alcohol as medicine thing is a joke older than those hippies' mothers.
asciilifeform: phf: this is rather like medieval nuns who saw rubbing clit as only acceptable if done indirectly as part of a 'saintly ecstatic dream' etc
asciilifeform: in re this and all other 'medicalizations' -- straight to tlp
phf: perhaps if some tribe accidentally learned how to synth p they would have "festivals" around it. "doesn't work otherwise"
asciilifeform: ritualization of $working-item is how priests siphon off some of the bang of the buck
mircea_popescu: this is not unlike saying that the teenaged village whore manipulated the village.
asciilifeform: supply 'necessary' mumbles, ration access, cordon off creators of bad pr (those for whom 'not worked'), etc
mircea_popescu: a) people want to do x ; b) people don't weant to do x ; c) people pick the more lunatic marginal, make him Priest of X.
mircea_popescu: kinda dangerous for the priest, but it's what it is.
asciilifeform: phf: re 'medicinal alcohol', most famously possibly in usa -- n. tesla revoked his prediction of living to be 100 y.o. when prohibition passed
mircea_popescu will to this day drink pepper-decocted-tuica for some types of colds.
mircea_popescu: very fucking medicinal.
asciilifeform: some variant of this exists in every drinking country, i suspect
mircea_popescu: and it also works! but w/e, i'm not proposing this shamanism is medicine.
mircea_popescu has had some occasion to try such wonders, like treated girl's sprain with mustard. it worked on her just as well as generally works, notwithstanding not from the right culture.
phf: "every trained girl must placebo on command"
mircea_popescu also sent girl with uti to buy herself gallon of cranberry juice the day before taking same girl to er because OMFG IT HURTS and pumping her full of nitrofuran.
mircea_popescu: or in other words, traditional medicine is fun while the fun lasts.
asciilifeform: either kind is 'while lasts'.
mircea_popescu: this is also true.
asciilifeform: ( and consider how s. jobs supposedly died )
mircea_popescu: didn't he have pancreatic cancer ?
asciilifeform: no, iirc it was some very uncommonly ~operable~ liver variant
mircea_popescu: not afaik.
asciilifeform: but he 'traditionalled' it for , it was said, years.
shinohai: He died of cyanide poisoning from eating all those crapple seeds
mircea_popescu: islet cell carcinoma.
mircea_popescu: o wow apparently he also got a liver transplant, which obv comes with imunosupressants.
asciilifeform: the idea (or at least the popular notion, i was not at his deathbed and have nfi re fact) was that the man , with infinite money, could have likely lived if he had spent it on the 'brezhnev-grade' medical fuckery earlier.
asciilifeform: instead of herbalists.
mircea_popescu: yeah apparently he spent a year trolling the internet for "spiritualists" lel.
phf: it's sort of like believing monopoly money is real money, must be a cultural thing
mircea_popescu: success unhinges the mind.
asciilifeform: especially 'grade 5' ( per mircea_popescu's essay ) success.
asciilifeform: it is pretty lethal to most folx i dare say.
asciilifeform: the old piloting book, interestingly, goes into subj
asciilifeform: (how folx often die -- from observer's pov, quite avoidably -- in the cockpit, author tells, is by taking idiot risk they 'got away with many times before')
mircea_popescu: a good 2/3 of how girl gets in trouble. "but i've always done this".
mircea_popescu: fine example for trinque 's folder on "brain - not reasoning machine". woman goes out in the field with the horde of kids (whose job as we know is to act as landmine sacrifices for the mysterious bushes). notices kid eats berries from berry bush, notices kid doesn't die, has some, and then tomorrow, and then
mircea_popescu: KURU IS AN INEXPLICABLE GOD SENT DISEASE
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575685 << you have to appreciate that "hacker culture" as practiced by adolescents is very different from hacking and very related to adolescence. the "hunting culture" of adolescents similarly is more about the horde being together and all excited than about catching anything.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:06 phf: also made me rather mistrustful of a lot of "hacker culture" elements, like too much coffee, night hacking, after hour sprints, weekend hacking, all things that i've confirmed from experience to contributing to atrocious code
mircea_popescu: there's specific sexual behaviours involved ; not so much work-oriented. unless you count cunt crushing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575686 << quite exactly, alf has it. http://trilema.com/2010/copchii-au-o-problema/ very much this same story.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:07 asciilifeform: the 'culture' was, as i gather, never actually ~about~ the code, but... about the coffee; the shared deathmarches; the dope; the sensory deprivation bottles; the 'scene'; and other pretenses.
phf: sort of reminds me how i was trying to teach a group of script kiddies to program. "this here shellcode -- that we use to pwn newwwbs!!! -- yes, yes, see it's x86 assembly -- ... -- and you disassemble it, and then even write your own -- so we can pwn newbs better????!!! -- yes yes precisely"
mircea_popescu: does your wife go ? eh ? eh ? is she a sport ? say NO MORE!
phf: what's it like!
mircea_popescu: aha lol
asciilifeform just opened a crate, 'what was this', turns out, grey market chinese '3d display', came even with preloaded crappy pr0n
phf: is it chinese porn?
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: thing runs turdroid, etc.
mircea_popescu: what, with blurred out cunts and shit ?
asciilifeform: box claims 'like in movie theatre' -- and true! !! ~back row~
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575716 << you know that "so what does your master do ?" "when he eats - he eats. when he sleeps - he sleeps" one ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:24 trinque has advocated various dopes in the past solely because they were fun, like camping is fun, but I don't write code camping either. I camp.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:25 trinque: still didn't feel superhuman on either; more like excited dog that has to sniff everything in a loop
asciilifeform: and lel, 'bangkok motor show' in there
asciilifeform: complete with 1930s wtfs
phf: asciilifeform: this is some prime warez
trinque: mircea_popescu: A student once asked his teacher, "Master, what is enlightenment?" The master replied, "When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep." << this thing?
asciilifeform: iirc it also ended with 'when done -- die'
asciilifeform: but maybe i dreamed this.
trinque: should at any rate.
mircea_popescu: trinque o, no.
mircea_popescu: A student told his friend, "My teacher has amazing powers. He moves a pen in the air and characters appear on a piece of paper held on the other side of the river. What does your master do?" His friend replied "My great master follows Zen. When he is hungry, he eats and when he is tired he sleeps."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575976 << i suspect that 'the dose makes the poison', as often is the case, most 'erdos' success stories involve very very small ones.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 20:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575721 << kinda why it goes so well with orgies.
mircea_popescu: shinohai < that sort of shit is misleading because usual socialism. should be in term of total fees.
mircea_popescu: wtf is "a transaction"
asciilifeform: lulzy how we ~still~ don't have fee-sort sanity.
mircea_popescu: until we put it in it won't exist alf.
asciilifeform: dafuq are 0fee tx even doing existing, for instance.
asciilifeform: or even the coin age priority thing.
asciilifeform: it makes 0 sense.
mircea_popescu: that's privilege.
asciilifeform: prioritize -- by fee.
mircea_popescu: i can't say i grasp what the dude thought he was doing exactly.
asciilifeform: (there is nothing presently keeping miners from prioritizing how they like. but -- too stupid)
shinohai: I agree it should be prioritized by fee ... but "democracy" and all
asciilifeform once sat down to put it in and then found that he cannot even delete one tx from the pool !
asciilifeform: if anyone recalls.
asciilifeform: jurov -- replicated this, painfully
mircea_popescu: so folks may recall the airconditioner pics ? in the same vein, this morning there was a truck loaded with steel pipes, and two trabajadores. one of them held a pipe up in the air vertically, with great effort, as the wind threatened to cause a serious workplace accident any moment. the other had a shovel.
mircea_popescu: and he used that shovel. to bang on the lower end of the steep pipe, ostensibly to induce it to take a shape less offensive to his taste and good public morals.
mircea_popescu: at which point englithment struck me : do you know that in two years here i NEVER heard an engine as quiet as the item left the factory ?
mircea_popescu: it was long a low level puzzle this, "seriously, 2010 toyota sounds LIKE THAT ?!"
asciilifeform: lemme guess, they take off the mufflers for the 1-3% efficiency boost ?
mircea_popescu: but then it became crystal clear - they have these auto shops here, about 100x the floor space of bars and nightclubs altogether. and in them, men. trabajadores.
mircea_popescu: with their fucking shovels, fucking up everything.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform currently i suspect they unseat and reseat the engine blocks wrongly.
mircea_popescu: ie, with different screws. with pipe collars. etcetera. INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA.
asciilifeform: btw most engines made since mid-1990s have an electronic damper that kicks in b/w , iirc, 3rd and 4th gear, and also has to be mounted, and correctly, or ~increases~ vibration
mircea_popescu: everything sounds like a fucking volga.
asciilifeform: (i learned of this existing when finally found the schematics for own auto, and marvelled)
mircea_popescu: i mean, IVECO trucks, clearly made for municipal use, clearly delivered new sometime in the past 2-3 years. as loud as a zil uphill.
mircea_popescu: never would that item have left factory in that condition
asciilifeform: orc maintenance.
asciilifeform: btw asciilifeform's mechanic is originally from buenos aires, and is superb
mircea_popescu: sort-of how the long lost compass in tribal shaman's possession is covered in braids and whatnot.
asciilifeform: according to legend, cuba is different somehow
asciilifeform: but i have not been there.
jurov went to look up trabajadores, there was this example usage: Mis trabajadores roban material de oficina de la empresa.
mircea_popescu: i would say it is very apt.
mircea_popescu: ladrones simply comes from lado, as in "de todo lado".
mircea_popescu: and in other utf news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a45654e4c3ad69ae4c0b4e2a9fbd4dbd/tumblr_oftz3cP7JU1ufsny6o1_1280.gif
mircea_popescu: gaming forum ? nigga...
mircea_popescu: that's what, 2 petahash ? i'm sure some venezuelan derp is running 2ph.
mircea_popescu: half a million or so in gear, big deal!
mircea_popescu: and besides, who's gonna notice a missing quarter mw.
ben_vulpes was just fined for gang plugging
phf: "make sure he gets plugged -- sure thing boss" later "benny v arrested in gang related plugging"
mircea_popescu: did this involve ginger by any chance ?
ben_vulpes: i wish
ben_vulpes: power cords only
mircea_popescu: isn't that nigger rigging ?
ben_vulpes dies laughing
ben_vulpes: funny thing is that i can guarantee if i'm drawing any serious amount of amperage it will be the walls that ignite and not my nigga-rigged workstation
trinque still wants to know what gang plugging is!
trinque: I've got a bunch of italians sitting around getting mops stapled on in my head
trinque: somebody has authoritah to inspect your power strips somewhere?
ben_vulpes: yeah, that's exactly it.
ben_vulpes: i didn't actually know that the fire marshall planned to let himself in, but GLORIOUS SOCIALIST UTOPIA OF PORTLAND
trinque: let himself in << what the fuck?
ben_vulpes: tell me about it!
mircea_popescu: i'm confused. what happened ?
ben_vulpes: fire marshall let himself into my office and fined me for power cord mismanagement
ben_vulpes: "GANG PLUGGING POWER TAPS"
mircea_popescu: how did he do that ? no locks where you live ?
ben_vulpes: well this is the office and apparently they have their own set of keys
mircea_popescu: lol aww.
asciilifeform: what's the fine, same 20bux as for smoking in a lift ?
asciilifeform: ( last set in... '50s..? )
ben_vulpes: very close, when inflation-adjusted, some 250.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1576026 << and i thought it was from latro (thief - lat)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 20:59 mircea_popescu: ladrones simply comes from lado, as in "de todo lado".
asciilifeform: 'you will need 50 men to lift this part...'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course it is.
mircea_popescu: and in other eu news, http://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/MrPayne/4694500/204087145/cuck_bw_07.jpg
asciilifeform: lel the thing from mircea_popescu's tale
mircea_popescu: which one ?
asciilifeform: the one with the... cock crusher?
mircea_popescu: oh i see!
mircea_popescu: THAT one
shinohai: There was an enterprising lady on reddit iirc who charged 0.1 to keep the tards locked up in one weekly.
mircea_popescu: a saintly spirit.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, no such labs now larger referrer for trilema than the logs.
mircea_popescu: by a fat margin too.
asciilifeform: old noose
asciilifeform: iirc it was in #ba before i was
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes your reddit link 404s
ben_vulpes: 2013 even, but amused me.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pardon?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i clicked on some link in there and it showed me an orange pile with some sort of teddybear crushed under it
ben_vulpes: in the directory.io/faq page?
mircea_popescu: i think maybe it was reddit's rendition of a cock ? crushed ?
ben_vulpes: not precisely my link, but reddit appears down from here
mircea_popescu: so /me clicks an addres.. and bam
asciilifeform: 'Public Note: Colorful eggs! You find it! Then what? Donate back to me if you like it. Other eggs are not far, I'd like to leave some clues about the pages or the keys, but I'm sleepy now.' << wat
mircea_popescu: i do not know.
mircea_popescu: but in other obscure arcana, http://68.media.tumblr.com/85dcb1cd1002b08c978b2738720da4f7/tumblr_oe8kg2KzS21v81p6qo1_1280.jpg
mod6: order placed.
mircea_popescu: generally rainers/torquemadas/etc are politically pliable
mircea_popescu: they just want to smell blood.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 19:25 mircea_popescu: i have personally repaired malfunctioning electronics with a well placed hit to the side.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1CD989C23947B860165C328E98AF5AE44F6F3931126D167976F47CA898F62F5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1717...3577 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '22.214.171.124 (ssh-rsa key from 126.96.36.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (200-63-164-144.static.speedy.com.ar. AR B)
asciilifeform: lol ar
asciilifeform: has world-open postgresql...?
BingoBoingo: Also possible Trump want Preet to leave in scandal the next activist prosecution overturned on appeal
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1CD989C23947B860165C328E98AF5AE44F6F3931126D167976F47CA898F62F5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...1793 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (200-63-164-144.static.speedy.com.ar. AR B)
BingoBoingo: Related http://epmonthly.com/article/treating-chainsaw-laceration-ep-enough/ "The patient claimed that he was given a staple remover and was told to remove the staples in one week. Emergency department staff stated that they gave him a staple remover to bring to his primary care physician to have the staples removed in 12-14 days. The patient removed the staples three days after they had been placed. Two months later, the patient returne
BingoBoingo: d to the emergency department with severe pain, swelling, and warmth to his knee."