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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00041111 = 1.9733 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, "Had he lost at trial in the worst way one every count and received" s/one/won/c
BingoBoingo: fxd thx
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu:
asciilifeform: so!!!
asciilifeform: i just began live-fire test of the first really dangerous patch
asciilifeform: for therealbitcoin
asciilifeform: a backport of the orphan trimming mechanism.
BingoBoingo: Good luck
asciilifeform: even if it works, it will need serious review
asciilifeform: by folks who actually understand what they are doing.
BingoBoingo: !up metsuno
danielpbarron: metsuno, get in that WoT so i can rate you!
metsuno: Thanks BingoBoingo
danielpbarron: and who were you btw, forgive me i can't recall who you were
metsuno: I'm need to muck around with my os first though
danielpbarron: it's been a while since porcfest
metsuno: we had a very lenghty discussion about bitcoin. you told me about the awesomeness of openbsd. i helped you pretend-assassinate that guy.
danielpbarron: ohhh cool that's who i thought
danielpbarron: that assassin thing was the best part of the whole week, besides poker of course
metsuno: it was an interesting adventure. that's for sure.
danielpbarron: are you going to the next one? I'm planning on it
danielpbarron: hopefully with a box full of cardanos and a qntra press pass
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not so sure this is a good idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a test.
mircea_popescu: "a test"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quite certainly not meant to go in the tree under any circumstances.
asciilifeform: test of hypothesis.
asciilifeform: it runs
asciilifeform: but i very much did not like what i had to do to get it to build.
metsuno: danielpbarron, I'm definitely going.
asciilifeform: i will describe the algorithm here.
asciilifeform: (as found in the enemy code)
asciilifeform: what they did is to set a limit (default == 750) of 'orphan blocks' (terribly confusing term, nothing whatsoever to do with orphaned chains)
asciilifeform: and when the limit is reached, one is picked for eviction from the cache
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell phillipsjk "run into the ground" ? lay off the pipe, man. you don't have enough disposable income to cover my harem's feminine hygiene products bill.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: but if it has antecedents, the chain of those is followed to the end and the terminus is dropped.
mircea_popescu: a collection of yous is going to run exactly noting into exactly nothing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as i said before, it's a kudge to fix another kludge. we don't really wnat any of it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can't even begin to fathom how true this is
asciilifeform: (unless you read the bugger)
asciilifeform: the question does remain, however - what is to be done with toy node
mircea_popescu: you know the joke with the shitting jews ?
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: two jews shitting in adjoining stalls.
mircea_popescu: "hey, do you suppose this is work ?"
mircea_popescu: "nah. if it were, we'd be paying someone to do it for us."
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: anyway. "what is to be done" re what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it can't fly with as it presently lives.
mircea_popescu: and you know this how ?
asciilifeform: strong empirical data
mircea_popescu: be specific.
asciilifeform: oomkill every 20 min. or so
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: once it takes > 10 mins / block i'll care.
asciilifeform: eventually db will be corrupted (may already be silently corrupt?)
mircea_popescu: it'll be fine.
asciilifeform: see observations of ben_vulpes re: above
mircea_popescu: trust in your t-34 with non-interchangeable parts and random fabrication defects
asciilifeform: other thing is, it's quadratic.
mircea_popescu: it won a great patriotic war.
mircea_popescu: look, let it run first.
asciilifeform: every time the thing reboots, the longer the chain, the longer the re-init.
mircea_popescu: let it run to where it takes > 10 minutes / block.
asciilifeform: there's another aspect to it
asciilifeform: the behaviour of the thing during death is by no means well-defined
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: not merely concerning the db
asciilifeform: but if node is being used 'in anger'
mircea_popescu: welcome the filth that is practical bitcoin into your heart, ascii
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3170 @ 0.00091997 = 2.9163 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: enemy will search far and wide for stories of one of these things catastrophically losing
asciilifeform: and if can't find, will create plausible scene.
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: enemy can not beat 12 dolla.
asciilifeform: he will say 'mine is $0, runs on your winblows pc'
mircea_popescu: we're upstream. enemy wants to kill bitpay, it can start a forkwar with me. enemy wants to convince people "bitcoin sucks", it can "create plausible scenes"
mircea_popescu: yaya.
asciilifeform: just pointing out that it may prove tricky to convince folks that a node which is, de facto, 7/8th duty cycle or worse, is a good thing
asciilifeform: likewise, the orphans thing is an easy ddos vector
asciilifeform: any moron can connect to one of our boxes and take a steaming shit in it
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo << is this guy from a parallel universe or wtf.
assbot: How to become a good poker player, translated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
asciilifeform: insta-zap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 12 dollars.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Opiates are not barbiturate, and heroin withdrawal indeed often only makes people wish they were dying.
asciilifeform: 12 dollars for a box that can be driven off the net by blowing on it
mircea_popescu: i never heard of an "alcohol addict" dead for no alcohol.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you have to keep blowing.
BingoBoingo: barbiturate withdrawals, benzodiazepine withdrawals and alcohols withdrawls, potentially deadly "Delerium Tremens"
mircea_popescu: delirium tremens is hardly that ffs.
asciilifeform: the 'naturally-occurring' nodes supply most of the wind
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is also very easy to squish a cockroach.
mircea_popescu: atmosphere already supplies most of the squishing.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: haha, it finally croaked
asciilifeform: 750 was a bit much.
asciilifeform puts the traditional turd back on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be clear, did you stop the original thing again to run a something else ?
asciilifeform: yes
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly, just buy another box if you can't stop fucking with it
mircea_popescu: and let the thing just run unmolested.
asciilifeform: 2nd box came finally.
mircea_popescu: decimation: why don't these kind of people with a brain just leave the country? <<< i dunno decimation. why don't they ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if you were planning to kill someone, would you helpfully tell him first ? << that's not the point. in a normal society, the threat is a fundamental tool to hierarchy building.
asciilifeform: -credible- thread.
asciilifeform: *threat
mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
mircea_popescu: and every citizen linked to it to the detriment of all else.
mircea_popescu: no, not credible. a threat at all.
mircea_popescu: it works on fundamental structures of the hominid brain, much like flirting makes the girl wet.
mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.
asciilifeform: this is a very sharp observation, but is it unique to the modern state?
mircea_popescu: well, that quickly gets iffy.
asciilifeform: what of ancient despotisms, with the public impaler, etc. - did not want to be at the stellar configuration center ?
mircea_popescu: nah, no mechanised ways to handle it,
mircea_popescu: the computer has a lot to do with this, it's a quantum leap in the possibilities of bureaucracy.
asciilifeform: the khan rides from town to town, has squad in tow with stake
asciilifeform: or, ivan iv, with cauldrons/oil
asciilifeform: worked beautifully
mircea_popescu: if it worked, more by accident than anything.
mircea_popescu: think of it this way : most russian peasants as late as 1800 had never seen the czar.
mircea_popescu: every last us residing cockroach has seen obama THIS WEEK
asciilifeform: well yes
mircea_popescu: well then.
asciilifeform: but the basic dread of the state, by peasant, is similar
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: the peasant did not fear the czar will come and fuck his daughter.
mircea_popescu: the peasant loved the czar specifically for this reason.
asciilifeform: more of a 'good cop / bad cop' symbiosis b/w king and next level of org chart down
ben_vulpes: good evening!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes!
ben_vulpes: hello sir!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform how are you?
asciilifeform: feeling very much dirtied by the dirt
asciilifeform: see log.
ben_vulpes: it is so very filthy
mircea_popescu: there's some lovely mud down here!
ben_vulpes: console yourself with the reality that life is a filthy entropic process
ben_vulpes: wallo!
ben_vulpes: wallow*!
asciilifeform: the one takeaway is that the cause of oomkill damnation in 0.5.3 can no longer be regarded as mysterious
mircea_popescu: or with the thought that you were never filthier than the day you were born.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform causes.
asciilifeform: aha
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dunno i think i've been covered in both more shit and more blood than on that day
mats: kakobrekla: where can i find information on bitbet api?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: orphans pool?
asciilifeform: identifiable crock o'shit; arguably an advance over the entirely enigmatic sort
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha.
ben_vulpes: <jurov> [] i'll say more later << tenterhooks am i on
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes as a body % ?
kakobrekla: there is an api?
ben_vulpes: absolute terms
mircea_popescu: absolutism's for the birds.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] ^ condemned to pay infinite fine, and to use only microshit << i don't see the m$ requirement
ben_vulpes: you're a bird!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla was there some json ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pgs. 4-5
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: implicit.
kakobrekla: well that hardly counts as api
mircea_popescu: yes but what were they ?
ben_vulpes: and that hardly counts as a requirement
kakobrekla: mats try adding "?json" at end of url and see if anything happens
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the wretch was ordered to use only systems fully compatible with traditional usg spyware used on such occasions
mircea_popescu: mats and on top of that, you can reuse addresses for as long as the bet didn't close.
ben_vulpes: anyways, mircea_popescu, relativism is for the birds.
mircea_popescu: no quantum computing for you. copme back, 1????????? year
mats: cool. rewriting the code for bitbet audit so it'll be worthy of publication this year.
mats: makes me expendable, but hey.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: aha. << am i on the right track or did i skim logs in too light of detail
ben_vulpes: mats: today you automate, tomorrow you order the automation
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes:
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:09:29; asciilifeform: i just began live-fire test of the first really dangerous patch
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1500 @ 0.0009242 = 1.3863 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: oh fuck yes
kakobrekla: mats if you plan on hitting bb hard which i dont mind i suggest i add your ip to whitelist
ben_vulpes: << danielpbarron i require details of this assasination
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:21:43; danielpbarron: that assassin thing was the best part of the whole week, besides poker of course
ben_vulpes: << constant refrain in fiatcorp: "no billing for poops! this isn't accenture."
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:31:31; mircea_popescu: "hey, do you suppose this is work ?"
mircea_popescu: only 554 lines ? by 6am ? WTF SRSLY GUISE
ben_vulpes: yeah i can sort of almost keep up even with my mom coming over with multiple bottles of bubbles
ben_vulpes: it's pathetic i tell ya
mats: kakobrekla: nah, you won't even notice it
kakobrekla: i certainly wont, but you might. anyway, i go.
ben_vulpes: << for srs, asciilifeform. you'll want proofs of correctness and haskell-grade type systems next.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:35:15; mircea_popescu: welcome the filth that is practical bitcoin into your heart, ascii
mats: thanks.
ben_vulpes: anyways asciilifeform how does the backported orphan-pruning situation handle the full tree?
ben_vulpes: omg it strikes me that there isn't a blocktree visualizer that i'm aware of
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'orphan blocks' in question have nothing whatsoever to do with the usual definition
ben_vulpes: what praytell then are they?
asciilifeform: they are simply blocks received hopelessly out of order
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] felipelalli: asciilifeform: your engine is pretty smart, thank you. :) <<< mmm win :D << once again i get no credit for the setup
ben_vulpes throws up his hands
asciilifeform: that is, anything that sails in for which you don't have an immediate ancestory
asciilifeform: *ancestor
ben_vulpes: right
ben_vulpes: should blockchain dl be performed sequentially?
asciilifeform: you can't do anything with them, except a) discard b) store in hope of gluing the chain together later
asciilifeform: classical bitcoind is all (b) and no (a)
asciilifeform: never, ever (a)
asciilifeform: thus it is doomed to die after snarfing up sufficiently many of these.
ben_vulpes: i guess the subquestion would be is b) even practical
ben_vulpes: doomed << well, question answered
asciilifeform: so it isn't a memory leak in the traditional sense
ben_vulpes: okay but to play devils advocate for a moment theoy could be dumped into the db were it used sanely
ben_vulpes: they*
asciilifeform: merely toilet that is never flushed, but continuously shat in
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you store these, anywhere, you set yourself up for shitburial
ben_vulpes: you and your poo metaphors
asciilifeform: since by definition there is no way to verify these blocks
asciilifeform: lacking an antecedent
asciilifeform: dr. evil can come and feed you until you burst.
ben_vulpes: no, i get it
ben_vulpes: i also appreciate your willingness to beat sense into my skull.
asciilifeform: and if, presently, 'burst' just means oomkill,
asciilifeform: if disk is involved he can now have you grind to a permanent halt
ben_vulpes: jesus fuck leave it as an exercise for once
asciilifeform: lol
BingoBoingo: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
BingoBoingo: Too many lulz to number right
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] mike_c: or anywhere else afaik. << << well that's damned interesting
assbot: SC POLIMEDIA SRL din Dumbravita Str. Szentes 7a, CUI 22530016 ... ( )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] asciilifeform as i said before, it's a kudge to fix another kludge. we don't really wnat any of it. << what was the first kludge?
asciilifeform: 'inv'
asciilifeform: i.e. nodes barf blocks at one another without any real logic
asciilifeform: mr s. did not know 'gossip protocol'.
asciilifeform: did not like mathematics.
ben_vulpes: hm.
ben_vulpes: yeah, that's a steamer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28464 @ 0.00041111 = 11.7018 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: so what's the plan? backport the magic 750 or discard all ahistoric blocks?
asciilifeform: i backported it. horrendous ugly.
asciilifeform: if you discard all of them - never syncs.
asciilifeform: (mike_c tried it)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu appears to favour releasing the thing sitting now on my desk - a that continuously reboots
asciilifeform: (and slowly grinds to a halt prior to doing so)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00040671 = 12.1403 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: approx. every 20 min.
asciilifeform: (present height - 183172)
ben_vulpes: brutal.
ben_vulpes: how fast does that number go up?
asciilifeform: right now, ~45 sec. / block
asciilifeform: varies.
asciilifeform: if you recall, bitcoin is not 'bittorrent' and does not make use of the multitude of nodes known to it at a given moment for fetching the blockchain
asciilifeform: instead, it locks onto one particular peer
asciilifeform: and snarfs from him, until it doesn't
asciilifeform: then picks another.
ben_vulpes: myeah.
ben_vulpes: something tells me that block downloading and peer selection is an important thing to look at in the next few arbitrary time units.
ben_vulpes: that something being a certain animated unicode set
asciilifeform: block downloading is almost certainly fated to be 'embraced and extended' by a sane implementation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im just in favour of actually testing
asciilifeform: (negotiate torrent-like loader, if can do - do; if cannot - fallback to classic)
mircea_popescu: let it run, see what actualy happens
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: grinder is grinding.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: kinda what i'm thinking
ben_vulpes: anyways, i'm off for the eve.
ben_vulpes: my thanks for your valuable insights.
asciilifeform to bed
mircea_popescu: big fucken deal, if product ends up being "spend $12 and three hours of your time following these instructions. if you have prior chain, you have node right off. if not, you have node in a month"
asciilifeform: if converges >>> then just as mircea_popescu said.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> did not like mathematics. << this guy is a cryptologist that didn't like coding or math.
mircea_popescu: very strange beast.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> something tells me that block downloading and peer selection is an important thing to look at in the next few arbitrary time units. << that something is athena riding a flaming shield.
thestringpuller: ^- doesn't she do that already?
mircea_popescu: a) fredrik de boer is a choad ; b) the left can't "win". because it's stupid. a bunch of frogs in a lake can win just as much. wtf can the terminally retarded gonna "win" ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25126 @ 0.00041096 = 10.3258 BTC [+]
assbot: Hipster churches in Silicon Valley: evangelicalism's unlikely new home | US news | The Guardian ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57700 @ 0.00043445 = 25.0678 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4546 @ 0.00095999 = 4.3641 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2543 @ 0.00097554 = 2.4808 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00043467 = 1.8256 BTC [+]
cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin"
fluffypony: lol
punkman: but... how?
assbot: iTunes Connect bug logs developers in to other developers’ accounts at random [Updated] | Ars Technica ... ( )
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu:
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00043467 = 5.1726 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00043498 = 15.5723 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24574 @ 0.00041751 = 10.2599 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17526 @ 0.00041709 = 7.3099 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24764 @ 0.00043404 = 10.7486 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00044157 = 14.2186 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Feds: Treasure hunter eluded police with cash, tradecraft | CNS News ... ( )
punkman: !up badon
badon: hi punkman
punkman: hola
jurov: <mircea_popescu> big fucken deal, if product ends up being "spend $12 and ...". you know this does not match expectations of general public
jurov: for $12 they expect something that just works and it isn't worth waiting a month for to be done
jurov: if you want them to wait through all the oom plodding, make them pay $300
jurov: also, for all the aspies having such "bad engineering" just feels unacceptable at any price
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00041996 = 15.0556 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56900 @ 0.00041752 = 23.7569 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: ben_vulpes> ..i require details of this assasination << i paid someone $5 to put on on the list, everyone on the list gets assigned a target, the object is to squirt your victim with a water-gun without any witnesses, you get $5 back per kill
danielpbarron: it took me the whole week just to figure out who my victim was, and i spent most of saturday stalking him at his campsite, finally got right as he was stepping out of his camper, his daughter heard it happen but nobody saw me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32673 @ 0.00042209 = 13.7909 BTC [+]
assbot: book_of_mistakes:working_texts:mist_200_year_plan [unMonastery wiki] ... ( )
jurov: punkman wtf?
jurov: and i got this scam email:
jurov: The King of Thailand has been dead since about the end of 2008. The current King of Thailand is a fake one. The Government of Thailand does not dare to announce his death because it will put Thailand in great trouble. The King of Thailand was keen on photography and he has been seen using his outdated Canon G9 camera even as late as 2012. In addition, his double forgot to remove his watch and appeared to be wearing two watches in the public. Thes
jurov: big mistakes.
jurov: Mr. Dimitri Khalezov is an important researcher and witness to the 9/11 event. In fact, he was a nuclear intelligence officer in the former Soviet Union. He testifies that WTC 1, 2 and 7 were demolished by three underground thermonuclear devices during the 9/11 event. As a matter of fact, there were large cavities found at ground zero (point of nuclear explosion in all English dictionaries printed prior to 2002) and tens of thousands of first
jurov: responders and local Manhattan residents have suffered from cancers as a result of exposure to this radiation.
jurov: sprinkled with clickbaits
jurov: ;;seen Chaang-Noi
gribble: Chaang-Noi was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 50 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 47 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Chaang-Noi> might have to sue em
jurov: ;;seen goat
gribble: I have not seen goat.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00041729 = 5.55 BTC [-]
punkman: jurov, dunno some kind of commune-hackerspace in italy
assbot: unMonastery ... ( )
chetty: I am curious, Do female suicide bomber have to be escorted by a male relative?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40950 @ 0.00042352 = 17.3431 BTC [+] {2}
davout: "Error(473): #bitcoin-lizards Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited" <<< lol wtf
nubbins`: hi
nubbins`: kakobrekla is it possible for assbot's OTP urls to be predictable (i.e.
assbot: ... ( )
nubbins`: dat inability to create simple bash script, etc
nubbins`: cazalla tell us more about your web of hate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9411 @ 0.00042629 = 4.0118 BTC [+]
nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O
danielpbarron: coindesk's redditnote piece is exactly the same number of words as mine if you strip out the quotes and the last line about his former job (which i probably should have included in mine); but theirs has less characters than mine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3176 @ 0.0009207 = 2.9241 BTC [-] {8}
kakobrekla: nubbins` what danielpbarron said
davout: ^neat-o
davout: yhwh_: your IP showed on join
fluffypony: hah hah
assbot: I'm a dominatrix and I was supposed to be whipping a blonde client...but instead I whipped a brunette... : funny ... ( )
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: !up JodaZ
davout: JodaZ: o hey
JodaZ: can i advertise for sale here once?
mircea_popescu: you can do anything once.
JodaZ: :)
davout: JodaZ: -> #bitcoin-otc
mircea_popescu: but yeah, nobody cares, just don't repeat yourself.
mircea_popescu: cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin" << what sort of low quality shilling have you been engaging in!
mircea_popescu: jurov: if you want them to wait through all the oom plodding, make them pay $300 << in the immortal words of baal (quite literally) : we shall take your position into consideration.
mircea_popescu: (the immortal words in question : )
assbot: Diablo 2★The Search for Baal Cinematic★[Original]Official Diablo II[D2 Cut Scene] Trailer - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: chetty: I am curious, Do female suicide bomber have to be escorted by a male relative? << lmao good one.
danielpbarron: you play d2?
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: had a kickass soceress
mircea_popescu: before they came up with bs teleporting gear for paladins and whatnot
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: dat inability to create simple bash script, etc << dat unreading of teh logs.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 16:26:57; kakobrekla: ;;later tell ben_vulpes as requested, json; and
danielpbarron: i had a kickass MF barbarian
mircea_popescu: sorcs could really only be frost
mircea_popescu: sadly. i liked teh hydra in d1 a lot.
nubbins`: how could i have missed it
mircea_popescu: nubbins` because the log is so incredibly fucking densely packed.
nubbins`: no kidding, hey?
nubbins`: oh, hbd to me
nubbins`: this is my jesus year
danielpbarron: i liked the necromancer but he wasn't very powerful
mircea_popescu: "When Tommy Thompson and his longtime companion did leave the Florida hotel room, usually alone and her more than him, they would use a combination of buses, taxis and walking around to shake anyone who might be tailing them."
mircea_popescu: for the record that guy was decent.
nubbins`: kakobrekla +1 top kak
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah i liked him too, but yeah, not useful in pvp
davout: i kinda ragequit d2 after my hardcore javazon died...
danielpbarron: LOL
davout: my alt+f4 wasn't swift enough
danielpbarron: i quit when a friend of mine got all my expensive MF gear trade hacked while using my account
mircea_popescu: davout bitch to play, the javazon
davout: such lag in cow-level
davout: diablo 1 was best diablo
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron in retrospect, the "expensive" gear of the d2 era was a good joke. 1k would have decked you and alts.
mircea_popescu: these days... heh.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O << me, for one.
danielpbarron: expensive in SOJ terms, not dollar terms; i didn't have credit cards back then
nubbins`: well, you know how to threaten people the right way, obv
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron oh lol teh stone of jordan
mircea_popescu: fucking idiot blizzard can't make an economy.
adlai: does assbot ever pick up ratings left with gribble after the wotfork?
PeterL: I think you have to add ratings to both wots now
mircea_popescu: adlai ideally a way to crossover is being developed, but practically i've not heard anything from nanotube for a week or so.
adlai: shouldn't it be as simple as, every rating has to contain a signature of the rating data, and then gribble and assbot can just spider eachother all day long?
adlai: and any other wots that spring up
adlai: wot-bots. the web itself would grow larger than any individual bot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15850 @ 0.00042214 = 6.6909 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ideally.
assbot: 404 Error: Lyle Page Not Found ... ( )
davout: « There’s No Free Lunch, Even Using Bitcoin: Tracking the Popularity and Profits of Virtual Currency Scams »
mircea_popescu: meh pdf. who's the author ?
davout: "We manually inspected all services on the list to identify only those operations established with fraudulent intent. For instance, we exclude Hashfast, a mining company that recently filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, as well as losses from Mt. Gox, a bitcoin exchange that failed."
davout: i stahped there
assbot: ... ( )
adlai: (pdf processed server-side, cloud magic)
PeterL: davout: they think they can differentiate between fraudulent intent and incompetence?
davout: looks like it
adlai: this viewer thingy is cool, you can link straight to the tl;dr:
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: PeterL derps that know about bitcoin about exactly the way they know what's best for africa.
mircea_popescu: never left chelmsford.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00042647 = 5.5441 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: mircea_popescu: jurov: ...... immortal words of baal (quite literally) : we shall take your position into consideration. << seems death threats are en vogue recently
mircea_popescu: lol didn't mean it like that
mircea_popescu: twas suppost to be funny.
fluffypony: who needs water or clothing or food when you're a starving African child that has BITCOIN!
jurov: mircea i know :) just had a double take on the (quite literally) part
mircea_popescu: well baal is immortal.
mircea_popescu: so i had a pile of sour cherries for breakfast
mircea_popescu: and now it looks like i'm going to have a chocolate cake snack.,
PeterL: literally or figuratively?
mircea_popescu: if i die let it be known i blame the government
mircea_popescu: literally.
mircea_popescu: !up jborkl
jborkl: Been stuck up the airport runway for over an hour :(
jborkl: The peeps are restless!!
mircea_popescu: stand up and announce "This has now been converted into a nudist flight. Everyone please remove all items of clothings. Thank you."
ben_vulpes: i'm making a bacon and caramelized onion omlette
pete_dushenski: jborkl: westerners are always restless
mircea_popescu: !up jborkl
jborkl: No word, just stuck
pete_dushenski: which is why they love smartphones that advertise "turn downtime into uptime"
davout: for before take-off enjoyment:
assbot: le cochon et le canard - YouTube ... ( )
pete_dushenski: when they just use them to flip through buzzfeed or some such
jborkl: Austin to Denver on united
PeterL: spend more time doing useless shit and you won't have to think about how worthless you are
jborkl: Maybe they found out I have bitcoin on me
jborkl: Lol
pete_dushenski: davout: lmao
mircea_popescu: davout the note on that video suggests romanian origin.
mircea_popescu: and they seem to me to be romanian francophones
PeterL: how does one have bitcoin on them?
jborkl: Joke joke
pete_dushenski: jborkl: impossibru to have the clouds on you ;/
PeterL: you have a private key tatoo?
mircea_popescu: so the man has a little bullet. stop hussling him!
jborkl: What , hehe I missed something ?
pete_dushenski: PeterL: sorta making the efforts of using a smartphone to always be connected quite counter-productive to the intended objective
PeterL: whose intended objective?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: seems like yesterday turned into national "let's translate romanian poker articles into engrish" day
pete_dushenski: quelle fun :D
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: hard huh.
pete_dushenski: lol not easy
pete_dushenski: but perfectly enjoyable
pete_dushenski: the ol' noodle enjoyed the challenge
asciilifeform: 185063.
mircea_popescu: !s from:asciilifeform
assbot: 43267 results for 'from:asciilifeform' :
jborkl: Something broke, they want to override it and see how that works out
jborkl: So, see ya laters!!
mircea_popescu: 30-01-2015 06:30:13 <asciilifeform> (present height - 183172) so it made < 2k in the past 10 hours ?
asciilifeform: aha
PeterL: was it running that whole time?
asciilifeform: PeterL: in the sense of being switched on - yes
asciilifeform: !s oomkill
assbot: 17 results for 'oomkill' :
mircea_popescu: 2k > 100.
danielpbarron: lol
asciilifeform: it's connected to the wild net (as opposed to existing node, which would be a more deterministic, if less realistic, test)
asciilifeform: so very much luck of the draw.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: (something the oomkills help, not hinder)
mircea_popescu: ie, get connected to9 shitty node, die faster. it's quite evolutionary.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if this worked at all well, it'd be synched by now.
mircea_popescu: somehow i suspect that if you had to design say a heron, it'd look a lot less like nature's variant and a lot more like an aircraft carrier
TomServo: lol
asciilifeform: herons don't crash.
mircea_popescu: herons crash all the fucking time.
davout: heron airprox
davout: "heron, go away, this is a class A airspace"
mircea_popescu: !up nokia
pete_dushenski: nokia... i just bought my first one in 15 years this week
pete_dushenski: waiting for the nanosim adapter to arrive
pete_dushenski: then experiment unsmartphone commences!
kakobrekla: which one
pete_dushenski: blu tank ii they call it
assbot: BLU Tank II T193 Unlocked GSM Dual-SIM Cell Phone with Camera and 1900 mAh Big Battery-Retail Packaging-Black Blue: Cell Phones & Accessories ... ( )
nokia: nokias are tanks
pete_dushenski: nokia: in another time, yes. not sure about the new touchy ones
kakobrekla: dunno, last nail hammering nokia i had was 3210
kakobrekla: imo build quality only went down from there
pete_dushenski: sorta like old mercs were panzers, the new ones are ospreys
mircea_popescu: i kinda agree, they don't make the bricks like they used to in the 90s
mats: 11:41:34 <+pete_dushenski> then experiment unsmartphone commences! << me too. bought a motorola C115 so i can play with osmocomBB
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: i think the 3310 was my first phone
ben_vulpes: << one of my favorite phones ever
assbot: Motorola StarTAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
nokia: anyone do the *3001#12345 trick with the nokias?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: yes!
kakobrekla: heres my first phone i got as a kid, also indestructible ;
assbot: ... ( )
mats: << foss baseband firmware
assbot: OsmocomBB ... ( )
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: colourful :D
kakobrekla: mhm :D
pete_dushenski: well i intend to test nokia's latest to see how it stacks up against my rose-tinted memories
kakobrekla: the thing with the phone was, when you were sending sms you had to type in the destination phone number from your head, no way to use saved entries.
kakobrekla: good for memory!
pete_dushenski: if only we could teach 0.5.3 to be so good with memory
davout: lol
pete_dushenski: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes ^ turd from last night's thread
asciilifeform: placed on www for the record.
mircea_popescu: "Keeping in mind that actual stalking has never been dealt with in any significant way ever, the desire of a few female writers to curb online anonymity wouldn't be enough to get an @ mention, except that this happens to coincide with what the media wants, and now we have the two vectors summing to form a public health crisis. "Cyberbullying is a huge problem!" Yes, but not because it is hurtful, HA! no one cares about
mircea_popescu: your feelings-- but because criticism makes women want to be more private-- and the privacy of the women is bad. The women have to be online, they do most of the clicking and receive most of the clicks. Anonymous cyberbullying is a barrier to increasing consumption, it's gotta go."
mircea_popescu: in retrospect this is the best discussion of this ever-returning zombie of "cyberbullying" i ever read.
BingoBoingo: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: "If Hess has made you wonder, hmm, maybe unrestricted anonymity is bad because it gives trolls too much power, then the system has successfully used her for its true purpose: brand it as bad, to you. She is unwittingly teaching the demo of this article, e.g. women in their 20s with no actual power looking to establish themselves, who are the very people who should embrace anonymity, not to want this: only rapists and t
mircea_popescu: oo-weak-to-try rapists want to be anonymous. Smart women write clickable articles about their sexuality for nothing, because what good are you if you can't make someone else money? Interesting to observe that the article's single suggested solution to cyberharassment is to reframe a criminal problem into a civil rights issue using a logic so preposterously adolescent that if you laid this on your Dad when you were 16 h
mircea_popescu: e'd backhand slap you right out of the glee club: "it discourages women from writing and earning a living online." Earning a living? From who, Gawker? Most of the women writing on the internet are writing for someone else who pays them next to nothing. None of them control the capital, none of them get paid 1/1000 of what they bring in for the media company. You know what they do get? They get to be valued by work, and
mircea_popescu: in gratitude they are going to the front lines to fight for the media company's right to pay them less."
mircea_popescu: this is quite exactly it, and it's not limited to poorly educated, insufficiently fucked, infantilized 20something wymyn.
mircea_popescu: the mirror-image infantilized 20something bois are idem fighting for paul graham's right to pay them nothing while turning them into a strange sort of pulp fiction's gimp
mircea_popescu: the funniest thing in all of this isn't exactly the horde of children who don't understand how the fuck they were tricked exactly. the funniest thing is the plethora of articles about how "apple could buy russia"
mircea_popescu: it's going to get even funnier once they actually try.
asciilifeform: why not 'buy' whole planet. what, not enough ink in printer ?
mircea_popescu: no but you know, the fumes of confused teenagers are going to somehow coallesce into moving as much as a hair of actual matter. ANY DAY NOW
mircea_popescu: i could be sitting in a parisian cafe cca 1815 and lol the same way for the same reasons at the same people
mircea_popescu: this, they call progress.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49050 @ 0.00041326 = 20.2704 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: fumes of confused teenagers are going to somehow coallesce into moving << 'dog barks, caravan moves'
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 341191 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 1528 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 16 hours, 26 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45460765013.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 10.14684
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: thank you sir
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49615 @ 0.00041894 = 20.7857 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: i can't believe that people want to fuck around with sidechains and altcoins when there's interesting work to be done in improving how the satoshi codebase handles block downloads
ben_vulpes: this "orphans" routine though, i must say i love it.
ben_vulpes: 'tis another dagger in my belt.
adlai: << dat %
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 19:26:09; gribble: Current Blocks: 341060 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 1659 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47714824514.9 | Estimated Percent Change: 15.60819
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that was cribbed almost wholesale from evil bitcoind
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the problem is that people are insulated from reality (least it hurts their feelings) and so they are also insulated from everythning interesting, and in the end their own life.
mats: hard work is hard. totes believable.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: people interested in actually doing stuff have b-a. everyone else can be "a contributor" (for bois), or "part of the community" (for womyns)
mats: why do any work when you can generate an altcoin from a bootstrap website and watch netflix
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2014 22:03:29; asciilifeform: obligatory russian drowning joke
mircea_popescu: essentially, because it's fun.
mircea_popescu: "why does the horse run, while the worm can but crawl ? because the horse enjoys to run."
asciilifeform: i can't believe that people want to fuck around with sidechains and altcoins when there's interesting work to be done in improving how the satoshi codebase <<< not only sloth, but avarice, is involved. nobody gets rich from honestly fixing satoshi's bugs
asciilifeform: sc4mz0r1ng? promises riches, at least to the foolish
ben_vulpes: bah wealth
ben_vulpes: la vie, c'est le travaille
asciilifeform: arbeit macht frei.
ben_vulpes: i'll settle for stakes and sucking holes in everyones chest.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's beyond short sighted.
mircea_popescu: nobody gets rich from being o'reilly's or Sara Miller McCune's hand puppet.
mircea_popescu: people DO get rich, in the manner of their choice, out of accumulating this sort of capital.
mircea_popescu: linus is rich, in that ~he can do what he pleases~. your definition of rich.
mircea_popescu: so is taleb. so is everyone that DIDN'T join the system.
asciilifeform: except that no one does honest scientific collaboration 'to get rich' specifically.
mircea_popescu: the only poor people are the "rich people" making 500k to 5mn a year to pay for their mortgage and college loans.
asciilifeform: them's chumpers.
mircea_popescu: a sudanese, poor as the dirt hre sits in, still has a chance.
mircea_popescu: antonoderpopo no longer has a chance, because he's dead, because a rich guy killed him.
mircea_popescu: and death is forever.
asciilifeform: zombie may even envy the dead.
mircea_popescu: zombie generally does.
mircea_popescu: which explains why suicide is such a big deal in zombieland.
PeterL: so, I'm reading through the bitcoind code as published by the Foundation,
PeterL: / Some explaining would be appreciated << this comment sounds like something asciilifeform would put in?
asciilifeform: where's this
PeterL: by the COrphan class
mod6: that's an original v0.5.3 comment
assbot: bitcoin/main.cpp at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( )
asciilifeform: PeterL: also these are not the same orphans!
PeterL: which orphans are these? how many kinds of orphans are there?
mircea_popescu: seriously let's start calling them parentless blocks / pblocks
mircea_popescu: this confusion is counterproductive.
asciilifeform: see last night's thread:
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 06:09:29; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'orphan blocks' in question have nothing whatsoever to do with the usual definition
mircea_popescu: PeterL orphans are short lengths ofchain that were abandoined in favour of a competitor.
mircea_popescu: parentless blocks are blocks which arrived to a node before their parents, and so can't be evaluated for validity (yet)
asciilifeform: my understanding is that the demented name confusion came about because originally these were handled using the same routines.
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: because system engineering is a topping for pizza.
asciilifeform: street pizza.
PeterL: 10000 btc pizza?
assbot: Urban Dictionary: street pizza ... ( )
ben_vulpes: mk a contention:
ben_vulpes: "reference node should only keep track of a single chain: the longest discoverable"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3235 @ 0.00096678 = 3.1275 BTC [+] {10}
mircea_popescu: how ?
ben_vulpes: that, i do not know.
asciilifeform: the whole process for learning which the 'longest discoverable' is
asciilifeform: requires keeping track of a certain quantity of non-longest.
ben_vulpes: but in keeping around orphan chains, the enemy can pollute ones disk trivially.
mircea_popescu: lol how about "bitcoin should just work" then
asciilifeform: but again, these are the -other- orphans.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes. which is why the only sane way for bitcoi nnodes to work is gossipd
mircea_popescu: but that is a point for later.
mod6: pblock is probably not a good name, since in most of the code "pblock" is what is denoted for a pointer to a block.
mircea_popescu: ah eys right mod6
ben_vulpes: bastardblocks
mircea_popescu: ?blocks
mircea_popescu: that's obvious and intuitive enough ?
mod6: they really are "orphans", since an orphan is someone with out parents right? so im fine with calling them orphans, i think there is confusion around how these come into existance.
mircea_popescu: except they're not orphan, they're just "not in the presence of their parents"
mats: << i'm slow on the draw, but this was a good read.
assbot: lcamtuf's blog: Technical analysis of Qualys' GHOST ... ( )
mod6: mircea_popescu: fair point there.
mod6: maybe "disconnected blocks" or something
mircea_popescu: works
kakobrekla: lost i say.
ben_vulpes: hah lols
ben_vulpes: lost
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that is a point for later << that's a point from last night
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 06:22:59; asciilifeform: mr s. did not know 'gossip protocol'.
mod6: kakobrekla: i like that.
pete_dushenski: plus ca change:
assbot: s/then/now. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: ^that cyberbullying convo was well timed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well really it was a point from ever since gossipd was discussed, but w/e, not mature yet.
asciilifeform: 185554.
pete_dushenski: later gang!
mircea_popescu: 500 in 2 hours ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: so at the present rate, done by conference time :D
asciilifeform: not linear.
mircea_popescu: well technically it's improved, over the 200/hour earlier :p
ben_vulpes: << well here's some strange
assbot: diafygi/webrtc-ips · GitHub ... ( )
ben_vulpes: << and the demo (warning: hostile)
assbot: ... ( )
jurov: i propose "mislaid blocks" :DDD
mircea_popescu: teh slutblox
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> except they're not orphan, they're just "not in the presence of their parents" << Latchkey Blocks
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski i'll be lucky to get my butt in a miata this decade
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: webrtc-ips << lol!!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wanna be hero? post some packet filter rules for this crap
jurov: forlorn, delinquent, remiss, slack, behindhand, belated ...literary english has plenty of words. just dorks know none
asciilifeform: no reason not to chop it off at the wall.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13440 @ 0.00042741 = 5.7444 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: whole IT is master, slave, orphan, vorgin, etc.
jurov: *virgin
ben_vulpes: obsessions of the unsexed
mircea_popescu: jurov word.
mircea_popescu: beloated blocks is not bad.
davout: lol jurov
mircea_popescu: sorta like belation causing bloat thing
asciilifeform: bloatsam.
asciilifeform: (as in floatsam)
asciilifeform: or was it flotsam
ben_vulpes: the latter
ben_vulpes: blocksam
mircea_popescu: brock pierce ?
ben_vulpes: any time anyone brings up brock i think of pokemon.
asciilifeform: when someone brings up 'pierce' can't help but think of pederasts
asciilifeform: or rather, russian prison buggery
asciilifeform: which, according to scholars, divides those who have been 'lowered into pederasty' into the 'pierced' and 'unpierced' species
ben_vulpes: 'pierce' << i think fondly of that time in my life when i had several holes in my face
asciilifeform: the former, those who have been ceremonially buggered in the usual sense, the latter - those who have not (or not yet), but have been assigned the caste
asciilifeform: 'getdata... ...can be used to retrieve transactions, but only if they are in the memory pool or relay set - arbitrary access to transactions in the chain is not allowed to avoid having clients start to depend on nodes having full transaction indexes (which modern nodes do not).'
asciilifeform: (from the www)
asciilifeform wonders if anyone else considers this to be lame
ben_vulpes: i.
ben_vulpes: have in fact complained about this in the past.
ben_vulpes: !s getdata
assbot: 3 results for 'getdata' :
BingoBoingo: Making money in college Illigu
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can be safely snipped.
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.chicken general search: getdata ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what can be
mircea_popescu: it will cause trouble at some point down the road, because eventually the blockchain will overwhelm the index.
mircea_popescu: however, it can be implemented as rolling window, which is how in point of fact "relay set" works
asciilifeform was thinking the opposite - civilized nodes could provide arbitrary tx access
ben_vulpes: hear hear
ben_vulpes: not really the remit of the RI tho.
ben_vulpes: RI, by my understanding: downloads and verifies blockchain; regurgitates blocks on demand; relays transactions.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not indefinitely.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so long as overhead is O(n) or below, why not
mircea_popescu: i dun think it is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1450 @ 0.00096878 = 1.4047 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: 0.5.3 - certainly not
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: mathematically - quite achievable
mod6: !rate TomServo 1 Helped me test a script for The Bitcoin Foundation
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.TomServo.1:e69b8f3713a82dde384db1535cb3f7d53b94c207c304be7dc8f77886fc0e8c43
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for TomServo with note: Helped me test a script for The Bitcoin Foundation
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: undergrads who 'rock the boat' end up 'having problems', one way or another. see also the folks who posted diffs b/w one semester's textbook and next's
asciilifeform: (for non-usa folks: the 'college racket' does not consist merely of tuition and housing that go up ~10%/yr., but also miscellaneous vampirisms like textbooks that stay almost exactly the same but for the exercise set orderings, at 100-400 usd a pop, moving target every semester)
ben_vulpes: i didn't even see the reorderings, asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: you know the one time a smarmy teacher tried to be all american and make the class buy a book we complained to the provost and he nearly got kicked out.
mircea_popescu: apparently growing up in the civilised world has its advantages
mircea_popescu: (it didn't last tho, meanwhile romania joined nato and every college prof is hawking his own dumbass books)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56900 @ 0.00042156 = 23.9868 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: undergrads who 'rock the boat' end up 'having problems', one way or another. see also the folks who posted diffs b/w one semester's textbook and next's << can't say as that was my experience. i rocked the boat constantly and still managed to eke some funding out of the university for harebrained rocket schemes
coderwill: ben_vulpes: hello, apologies, i have been busy for a few days, but noticed your mention the other day about options
ben_vulpes: oh, mostly just trolling you
coderwill: ben_vulpes: the first thing i asked was to see the cap table
coderwill: ben_vulpes: sorry wasn't around to reply
coderwill: so when i asked to see the cap table, was told that no one except investors are allowed to see cap table
coderwill: then what mike_c said was almost exactly what happened afterward, ironically
mircea_popescu: next time tell them "listen bub, i'm not fresh off the turnip truck. you want to hire me on pure salary, it's $1,5mn the first year payable upfront and increasing by 1mn each eyar after that.
mircea_popescu: now go get that cap table."
coderwill: yeah, i thought about that at the time, but then was like, well, i guess i'm getting to work at one of the most well-known wallet providers, that could be good for subsequent opportunities
mircea_popescu: except it's moreover bad.
coderwill: correct, that was a naive thought in many regards
mircea_popescu: well, at least now it's in the logs.
trinque: coderwill: nah man, that "this will at least be good for my resume" thing is just a way of learning to love the pole
mircea_popescu: it's how amanda hess works, at any rate :D
coderwill: haha, it's all good
trinque: everyone in the industry under 30 is a perma-intern
coderwill: i am thankful for the opportunity and it has let me to better places, but definitely not what i was expecting when i came on board
trinque: that said why fight for equity if the businesses wont even be there in a few years
ben_vulpes: yeah fuck equity
trinque: maybe 2 of the 7 I've worked for still exist
ben_vulpes: short the shartups
trinque: one of those is my own
coderwill: at the same time, there are some people i really enjoyed getting to know who i'd be happy to work with again. it's just a few that made it very strange for everyone
coderwill: trinque: agreed, equity is not all it's cracked up to be
trinque: well it's not equity; it's that the companies are largely worthless
trinque: I had looads of shares of the terrible rails startup I was a part of years ago
trinque: company's dead; shares aren't worth one reddit note
mircea_popescu: trinque pushing for equity is an essential tool in evaluating the company.
mircea_popescu: peopel tend to forget that working for a start-up is a LOAN.
coderwill: trinque: reminds me of a quote from @fakegrimlock -
trinque: mircea_popescu: oh certainly!
trinque: just commenting on the worthlessness of american startups
mircea_popescu: well the only way to survive is to nmot work for a worthless one.
coderwill: mircea_popescu: i like your idea about working for a startup being a loan
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu:
coderwill: mircea_popescu: seems like the ones that think of it that way are far and few between
mircea_popescu: coderwill think of it in sexual terms. "honey let's fuck". "are you going to be around in ten years to raiuse my children ?" "nope" "so i'm loaning you my taxed income in the future ?"
mircea_popescu: traditional employment of the "that's a firm to put 30 years in with" isn't a loan particularly for that reason.
coderwill: haha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34734 @ 0.00042959 = 14.9214 BTC [+]
coderwill: it's a bummer people can't be more straight-up with potential hires
trinque: mircea_popescu: seems this state you describe in the article is terminal
mircea_popescu: which one ?
trinque: coderwill: you have to force them to be, and if you can't, why would they?
coderwill: i guess there is a flipside though, which is people wanting everything
trinque: mircea_popescu: the meta problem
trinque: if a person can't reason enough to reason that they'd better improve their reasoning, fucked
ben_vulpes: fucked without external intervention.
trinque: maybe someone external can force them to do otherwise, but they never will
trinque: right
ben_vulpes: hence beatings.
coderwill: trinque: re: hiring, probably best to start small with people you trust almost unconditionally
coderwill: or maybe a better way of saying it, a person who comes to the table thinking "what's in this for us" instead of "what's in this for me"
mircea_popescu: trinque aka d-k as hanbot points out
mircea_popescu: <trinque> maybe someone external can force them to do otherwise, but they never will << main point of slavery.
mircea_popescu: "you'll be eating dogfood off the floor until you can X"
trinque: poking at the roots of the brain directly, read that in another recent article
mircea_popescu: coderwill yes, that and the frankness are the predicates of this place, and why it works, and why qntra will sink gawker and so on.
mircea_popescu: it's just altogether a much better model.
mircea_popescu: it only works for rich, smart people, but then again let gavin have africa, and graham sillycon valley, they'll have fun together.
ben_vulpes: <coderwill> trinque: re: hiring, probably best to start small with people you trust almost unconditionally << i've had decent success hiring friends and their friends.
trinque: ben_vulpes: dat irl wot
ben_vulpes: wots rule everything around me
ben_vulpes: mind you, coderwill "friends" is not the criteria.
coderwill: mircea_popescu: yeah, hope something positive comes out at the end
ben_vulpes: it's more like "dood i know and respect knows and respects this other dood, so i guess i'll give him a whirl".
trinque: ^ requires good stock that knows the meaning of respect
ben_vulpes: tricky, indubitably.
asciilifeform: 185964.
ben_vulpes: as an aside, the whole vesting thing is odd.
ben_vulpes: i've been batting around the notion of a qntra-style stock pool, where stock in the operation would be issued in direct proportion to hours clocked on the project.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lol!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why not by the pound ?
asciilifeform: !s which screw
assbot: 16 results for 'which screw' :
ben_vulpes: i don't quite know if this is topologically different from an option pool with a vesting schedule, except that it provides some fairness proportionality to the time worked
asciilifeform: try paying the 'which screw' man by the hour.
ben_vulpes: i've no business with "which screw" men.
ben_vulpes: everything we touch gets the shit automated out of it as a precondition of touching it.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do your men do, the profit from which is at all proportional to the time spent?
asciilifeform: iirc there was programming involved?
ben_vulpes: read, think. occasionally commit a line or two of code.
ben_vulpes: others: read, think, occasionally produce a UI layout.
asciilifeform: and the fella who has to think for two hours to come up with xxxx, should be paid 2x the pay of the 1h one ?
asciilifeform: am i the only one who thinks this is odd
ben_vulpes: the fella who thinks for twice as long is generally not paid nearly what the one who can see it instantly.
ben_vulpes: (is).
asciilifeform: the latter is called 'which screw'
ben_vulpes: you're forcing a metaphor.
ben_vulpes: some read and do (the correct thing) very quickly, and are remunerated in proportion to their time spent and speed at which they do it.
ben_vulpes: this allows the man who only cares to work for 15 hours per week to do so, comfortably, provided he's good at what he does.
asciilifeform: hourly billing, esp. for engineering, always seemed like the worst possible incentive to me
asciilifeform: the most valuable contractor is the one who magicks away the problem in seconds and then gets out of yer face
ben_vulpes: well, we work with derpy web stacks man.
ben_vulpes: each a snowflake with its own peculiarities.
asciilifeform: especially there, this ought to be true ?
asciilifeform: the master of a particular turd can 'turn the screw'
ben_vulpes: as we get up to speed on a given codebase/ops story, shit moves vastly more quickly.
asciilifeform: civilian - will be reading the horror for weeks
trinque: really hard to quantify this stuff
ben_vulpes: no doubt, asciilifeform, no doubt.
asciilifeform: the gnarlier, uglier, the proggy, the more potential for 'screws'
ben_vulpes: but someone must invest the capital to justify loading it into a team's shared understanding.
asciilifeform finds the above ^ a bit confusing but may be out of depth
ben_vulpes: the source must be read, neh?
ben_vulpes: this takes time.
ben_vulpes: someone must foot the bill for that.
asciilifeform: unless you already knew (or even wrote) it
asciilifeform: (consultant)
ben_vulpes: sure, for greenfield absolutely.
cazalla: nubbins`: cazalla tell us more about your web of hate <<< some kid printed out ICQ chatlogs that he was not even involved in and took them to the police
ben_vulpes: but what about the project whose maintainer has ghosted themselves off to the next interesting thing?
asciilifeform: even for straight reverse-engineering, there are order-of-magnitude variations in the amount different folks have to read to grasp the problem
asciilifeform: i bet you can think of some examples of this, from your own practice
cazalla: nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O <<< i made TV too because what else happens in the sticks, thankfully minor at the time.. all this shit because i said i was gonna machine gun a bunch of people
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: several.
ben_vulpes: i'd not go so far as to say "order of magnitude"
ben_vulpes: perhaps 2x to 3x
cazalla: mircea_popescu: cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin" << what sort of low quality shilling have you been engaging in! <<< i criticised the jews :\
mats: cazalla: lemme guess. 'ButterNubber'?
cazalla: mats, that's not me
ben_vulpes: in our snowflake of a case, that's more due to the difference between people who've seen things like the bug under the microscope before, and people who've yet to learn the myriad of tools and mental models to cope effectively.
mats: the mystery continues.
ben_vulpes: a bit of economics: in training those people, their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes.
trinque: ben_vulpes: is being drunk a mental model or a tool
trinque: that one makes django a breeze
ben_vulpes: trinque: well if you know what you're doing, and you're climbing with Ballmer...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes << naggum wrote at some length on this subject
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd love to read it
ben_vulpes: there's another side to that as well, which is that the people with whom I work who do things at the 2x-3x range of the others actually enjoy teaching juniors and collaborating on these projects.
ben_vulpes: non monetary remuneration.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: << one bit. there was more, somewhere
assbot: Re: Newbie questions - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
assbot: Re: What Lisp needs to beat Java, etc. - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'Let's put it another way: Money will _not_ get you any Open Source or Free Software. People create software like this because they want to, _not_ because they get paid. Money is a basically a _detractor_ for creative people who want others to use their software and through that become personally visible. It is pretty sad, but money does not offer visibility to someone who is begging for others to notice him. Open Source a
asciilifeform: nd Free Software are proofs that computers are alienating in the old Marxist sense and the Open Source and Free Software projects are reactions to this sense of alienation, in order to make the person stand out from the computerized nothingness.'
danielpbarron: it's like a starving artist kid i know that will spitefully do a poor job if you pay him to draw something
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: we definitely diverge from the original topic significantly here, but "community" and "belongingness" is a core part of what we do.
ben_vulpes: we have relationships with our clients, get to know their business and make a nominal difference in how they do it.
coderwill: ben_vulpes: sorry, delayed reply - yeah i get what you are saying about hiring friends
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yeah, linked piece is not quite what i was looking for
asciilifeform: it's in there, somewhere.
asciilifeform: (*in the archive)
ben_vulpes: myeah.
ben_vulpes: i'd like to be more familiar with that archive.
ben_vulpes files it for peacetime
assbot: Erik Naggum comp.lang.lisp archive ... ( )
asciilifeform at one point snarfed up all of it
trinque: !up felipelalli
trinque: felipelalli: you're going to want to get yourself a cloak
trinque: and a properly configured irc client
trinque: somebody in here likes to ddos IPs that appear in logs
trinque: I'm sure we're all being scanned for hax as well
trinque: ^heh! fled
cazalla: why the name change trinque?
trinque: cazalla: this was always my otc handle, and hence the name that made it into assbot
trinque: and why use an alias
cazalla: guess i gots to make another symlink in my mind much in the same way i made one for bitcoinpete
BingoBoingo: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
trinque: BingoBoingo: is this to highlight "why use an alias" for when I'm hauled off to room 101?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah, just wanted to highlight brain symlinks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10787 @ 0.00042663 = 4.6021 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42513 @ 0.00043175 = 18.355 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: i know changing names is not a good practice, but perhaps for the sake of sync we could allow to update your name once (given properly signed request from adequate gpg key)
ben_vulpes: changing names not a good practice?
ben_vulpes: so long as the fp doesn't change how does that matter?
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: you'll need a cloak.
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes think of it this way: why dont we just use FP instead of nicks ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: that was sorta the plan in 'gossip'
asciilifeform: nick is just something you'd assign locally to an fp, for convenience
kakobrekla: reminds me of
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 16:49:48; kakobrekla: the thing with the phone was, when you were sending sms you had to type in the destination phone number from your head, no way to use saved entries.
kakobrekla: yes, locally
kakobrekla: thats different matter.
asciilifeform: this is actually more like how names work in life
asciilifeform: i.e. you have some say in what folks you meet will call you, but not 100%
kakobrekla: but say you rated undata at some point, and then he changes nick to pirateat40 and you will wtf next time you check your ratings
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: why?
davout: kakobrekla: dat true
kakobrekla: now, this is just a one time inconvenience, but say everyone would change all the time. nicht gut.
davout: i can hardly remember who this kakobrekla guy is anyway
kakobrekla: see its already hard for frenchies.
asciilifeform: so:
asciilifeform: bitcoind limited to 'orphanage' of 50 blocks (running on ordinary pc) never syncs
scoopbot: New post on by cazalla:
asciilifeform: stuck at 3466.
jurov: and does the std limit of 750 help with oom after all?
asciilifeform: almost certainly not (quite definitely not on 'pogo')
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu was right in that a fundamentally more intelligent mechanism for retrieving blocks is necessary
asciilifeform: testing a build of same with constant of 250
asciilifeform: if the memory footprint can actually be limited, the smaller machine can perhaps be allowed to swap to disk.
davout: being able to request blox from peers for a certain height would solve the whole thing instantly
asciilifeform: aha.
jurov: malicious peers can poison us with orphan chain up to that height
jurov: anyway
jurov: i'd suggest to use difficulty
davout: if you're connected to only malicious peers you're kinda fuxxored anyway
asciilifeform: malicious peers not even needed for this
asciilifeform: it happens reliably, anyway
jurov: yes. but if we put in expected difficulty instead of checkpoints
jurov: then producing fake blocks is.. well dificult
davout: "malicious peers not even needed for this" <<< how?
asciilifeform: davout: the flood happens nearly always in the natural process of loading blocks
jurov: (just spur if the moment idea)
jurov: *of
davout: ah, i thought you were referring to jurov's 'malicious peers' objection to consider requesting blocks based on height
jurov: now that is something. if i secretly make 350k alternative blocks with minimal difficulty, will that altchain get chosen if we have no checkpoints?
asciilifeform: experimental result:
asciilifeform: (250, x86)
asciilifeform: ten minutes of run, 127937 height (and going at that rate), at no point process exceeded 90MB
asciilifeform: but!
asciilifeform: seems like it got lucky with peers
asciilifeform: log shows that only two 'bastards' came in
asciilifeform resets
asciilifeform: grep "ORPHAN BLOCK" ~/.bitcoin/debug.log | wc -l
asciilifeform: ^ 'bastard count'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22125 @ 0.0004171 = 9.2283 BTC [-]
mod6: Anyone wanna test out a perl script for me?
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11346 @ 0.00041058 = 4.6584 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 2nd run (see above) :
asciilifeform: after ~15 min, 950 (iirc) bastards, 85MB max footprint - reached a wedge state at 119970 (1983 bastards, came in burst)
mod6: yal
asciilifeform: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : xxxxxxxxx mapTransactions prev not found yyyyyyyyy
asciilifeform: ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed xxxxxxxxx
asciilifeform: ^ of this form
asciilifeform: go figure, dislodged.
davout: jurov: "now that is something. if i secretly make 350k alternative blocks with minimal difficulty, will that altchain get chosen if we have no checkpoints?" <<< i don't think so. if you have 8 peers you'll get two different blocks at different diff for the same height, hard to feed you a bogus chain
asciilifeform: stays in mem footprint
asciilifeform: (2800 bastards in)
asciilifeform: 124000 & counting
asciilifeform: this is actually an unsurprising result
asciilifeform: if connects to a peer who insists on pumping it full of bastards, cyclically, of course it wedges.
asciilifeform: but when wedged, does not oom.
mod6: wait until you get to here:
assbot: dpaste: 1K109AP ... ( )
asciilifeform: based on the footprint, the orphanage burner functions
asciilifeform: same effect at 131019...
asciilifeform: 4570 bstrds
asciilifeform: 117MB max footprint
asciilifeform: dislodged
asciilifeform: ergo, when it hits a retarded peer, grunts for a while
asciilifeform: would be more economical to simply chop the connection
asciilifeform: retards can go pound sand
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00040756 = 11.0041 BTC [-] {3}
mats: cheer up
mats: can you feel ma love from over the tubes?
trinque: he said, inching closer, staring without a blink
asciilifeform: blocks=136927 bastards=7631 peak=120M
mod6: you're running with a 250 size limit cap now right?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: (on x86 box)
mod6: cool
danielpbarron now has 3 pogoplugs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.10442915 = 1.2531 BTC [+] {4}
mod6: that's neat. gonna test RI on 'em?
danielpbarron: what is RI
mod6: reference implementation
mod6: (v0.5.3 + patchez)
danielpbarron: ah, yes
mod6: werd. lettuce know how it goes. :]
BingoBoingo considering as future desktop machine. Seems to satisfy stuff in bag, carry much distance criteria.
assbot: The Linux Mint Blog » Blog Archive » Introducing the MintBox Mini ... ( )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo likes soldered-in wifi ?
BingoBoingo: solder melts
BingoBoingo: Antennas snip
asciilifeform: why not buy things that don't require mutilation.
BingoBoingo still populates list with candidates. can see merits of wifi for hotel camping scenarios, but prefers unpluggable wifi
asciilifeform: blocks=137849 bastards=8647 peak=128M
ben_vulpes: interesting hostname, berndj
ben_vulpes: hmph. nevermind.
asciilifeform: << bitcoin 'core' developer
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: << see also
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: ought to be a book!
danielpbarron: i'm ssh'd into this thing; pretty neat
danielpbarron: << persistent guy!
assbot: GoldenVizions comments on Hi Reddit, I’m Bill Gates and I’m back for my third AMA. Ask me anything. ... ( )
danielpbarron: "This will take some time but getting into the Web of Trust is something I have wanted to do and have been studying for a few months now."
asciilifeform: blocks=144806 bastards=11847 peak=145M
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21382 @ 0.00042654 = 9.1203 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00043333 = 1.6467 BTC [+]
scoopbot: New post on by Bingo Boingo:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00043633 = 26.6598 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up berndj
mircea_popescu: !up Takeshi
mircea_popescu: anyone want the clearly very valuable domain ?
mircea_popescu: lol cpt buttarms
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: i've been batting around the notion of a qntra-style stock pool, where stock in the operation would be issued in direct proportion to hours clocked on the project. << risky if it ends up promoting clockpainting.
jurov: ben_vulpes: sell that idea to reddit
mircea_popescu: qntra works very well, at least so far, because everyone's work is fundamentally public, there's no meaning in "writing words' outside of obviously others reading them. so trying to thin out the product as it were is painfully visible and liable to cost whoever does it more than it's worth.
jurov: they can give scamcoins according to time spent there
mircea_popescu: with something private like you know, coding work, this may prove unfeasible.
mircea_popescu: jurov kinda what they do already no ?
jurov: well, yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do your men do, the profit from which is at all proportional to the time spent? << this is a well pointed question. it'd seem your business is ass-backwardss : people do the job of computers, and i guess computers do the job of people ?!
trinque: seems just issuing bonuses when times are good is more manageable
trinque: maybe that's applicable to stock as well; just issue shares as you personally see fit
trinque wonders if there are rules on "fairness" in regards to giving employees stock
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50214 @ 0.00042159 = 21.1697 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "everyone must get the same"
trinque: jesus
trinque: mircea_popescu: really?
mircea_popescu: well what ?!
trinque: well presumably I own the fucking thing, at least in my own delusion
trinque: I can't just decide a guy has pleased me and give him some?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1560 @ 0.000932 = 1.4539 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: maybe you don't understand this whole "fairness" concept.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> with something private like you know, coding work, this may prove unfeasible. << Also as unequally as prose may be weighted, code is especially unequal when it comes to volume versus value.
trinque: seems dangerous to give stock at all then, if there's anything at all on the books about "fairness" to whoever
mircea_popescu: trinque yes, capitalism does not work in the hands of idiots.
mircea_popescu: like gpg. like everything else worth using.
mircea_popescu: it's that fabled lightsabre that only lightsabers if wielded by master.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, you're right. qntra was a bold step into the darkness, perhaps too bold. trying it with coding is taking a bold ~train trip~ into the wilderness.
asciilifeform: pay for quantity or time is how the fabled 'indian coder' came about.
asciilifeform: (the notion was once taken to extremes in that country)
trinque: I suppose I should stop being surprised.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo yeah, you're right. qntra was a bold step into the darkness, perhaps too bold. trying it with coding is taking a bold ~train trip~ into the wilderness. << Well with Qntra and prose having editorial controls helps to level the problem. I can not imagine a similar arbiter existing for code.
asciilifeform: time is the less immediately-suicidal variant - all you end up with is a clock-watcher and a lighter wallet
trinque: the incoherence of it all sets off instinctual rage that if nothing else keeps me hammering away at the wall
asciilifeform: 'weight' is the killer
asciilifeform: you have to live with... the code. afterwards.
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know precisely one place where this approach worked.
asciilifeform: 'The practice is pervaded by the reassuring illusion that programs are just devices like any others, the only difference admitted being that their manufacture might require a new type of craftsmen, viz. programmers. From there it is only a small step to measuring "programmer productivity" in terms of "number of lines of code produced per month". This is a very costly measuring unit because it encourages the writing of insipid
asciilifeform: code, but today I am less interested in how foolish a unit it is from even a pure business point of view. My point today is that, if we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as "lines produced" but as "lines spent": the current conventional wisdom is so foolish as to book that count on the wrong side of the ledger.'
mircea_popescu: i dunno if you like balzac much, but the only reason the fat lazy fuck exists as a writer is because he had to pay his eternal debts and the newspapers paid by the line.
ben_vulpes: i'm apparently in the unique situation of reading through all code that gets produced in my shop and having more or less everyone's eyes on everyone's product.
assbot: Page not found | Computer Science Department The University of Texas at Austin ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'On the cruelty of really teaching computing science' (dijkstra)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that'll scale about as well as "i don't need condoms, i only fuck clean girls"
ben_vulpes: i was just about to say.
trinque: ben_vulpes: it just occurred to me that perhaps the group could somehow quantify their mutual perception of who has contributed?
trinque: is that faiaaaiiiirrr? *wiggles eyebrows*
mircea_popescu: trinque hey, you're really building teh reddit
trinque: damn it; I did.
ben_vulpes: you stop it with your mad quest for metriced decisionmaking
trinque: but doesn't have to be flat
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes fucks with bigger tits that last longer should be paid more!
asciilifeform: the group could somehow quantify their mutual perception << l0ll!!!
ben_vulpes: yeah i do it manually on walks with individual contributors
trinque: asciilifeform: the fuck; you never do peer code review?
asciilifeform: nope
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform clearly has no peers capable of reading his code
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6786 @ 0.00040931 = 2.7776 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: it's actually a manual walking of the shop wot
ben_vulpes: hm.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes trinque well have you looked at the sort of shit he outputs ?
ben_vulpes: WHATEVER
trinque: mircea_popescu: doesn't what someone is paid quantify it ultimately anyway?
mircea_popescu: 4mb bitcoind that doesn't fucking work etc.
trinque: haha
trinque: ben_vulpes: right, internal wot, exactly
trinque: doesn't matter though, nanny bama will burn your house down if you try to introduce hierarchy
trinque: I can't process that
mircea_popescu: so i just re-read this article, it's getting to the point where i manage to piss MYSELF off.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if anyone ever trolled themselves off the internet.
BingoBoingo: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
trinque: mircea_popescu: which?
mircea_popescu: the last one.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com3690.3 %3692.6 %
mircea_popescu: %3282.3 %
assbot: 502 Bad Gateway ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ^ check it out, a challenger appears.
trinque: the write on the screen bit -> my sides
mircea_popescu: << btw.
assbot: Link without improving "their" search engine position | ... ( )
mircea_popescu: how do you know you REALLY piss people off.
asciilifeform: lol!
assbot: dgerard comments on The Emperor is Buttnaked (BTC block size discussion with Gavin) ... ( )
mircea_popescu: othar efforts in the same vein.
mircea_popescu: ahh, i recall the age of the romanian pond, when a bunch of retarded ~romanians~ similarly entertained delusions of, you know, we will HURT THIS GUY!!111
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43500 @ 0.00041322 = 17.9751 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: because obviously anything's within reach.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile :
mircea_popescu: [–]Institutional_Invest 1 point 9 days ago TLDR of this discussion?
mircea_popescu: [–]wonderkindel 5 points 8 days ago Gavin sees a major shitstorm ahead, does not know of any way out, but hopes that cartels of honest miners will materialize to keep the dream wet.
mircea_popescu: check it out davout, r/buttcoin gets it ?!
assbot: The real reason Ryan Charles was fired from reddit: he spent the entire duration of his employment working on a port of bitcoin core to Javascript. : Buttcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: lawl
mircea_popescu: it wasn't javascript
mircea_popescu: it was xml.
mircea_popescu: inspired by a post.
BingoBoingo: lol
trinque: lol @ notch did minecraft in js
ben_vulpes: returnofkinks << bahahaha
davout: mircea_popescu: yeah well, if honest cartels don't make it we can only hope about "maybe assurance contracts, maybe bonded identies tied to transaction fees"
mircea_popescu: that "assurance contracts" in particular is such insane dumb only hearn could have sprouted it.
mircea_popescu: do you know how syria could have bombed new york ?
mircea_popescu: ASSURANCE CONTRACTS!
davout: they're called difficulty futures goddammit
davout: XD
mircea_popescu: a bunch of derps in beirut getting together and agreeing to have bombed new york is how new york will have been bombed.
mircea_popescu: subjonctive died out in english because it was stupid, time to reimplement it out of javascript and call it something else!
mircea_popescu: do you know how "the sanctions" destroyed putin ?
mircea_popescu: by washington agreeing with reddit that they did!
mircea_popescu: redditardssurance contracts!
davout: on an other topic, wrt to pogo plug chain sync
asciilifeform: 'Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should — in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 — and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible. Much of the propagandist writing of our time amounts to plain forgery. Materi
asciilifeform: al facts are suppressed, dates altered, quotations removed from their context and doctored so as to change their meaning. Events which it is felt ought not to have happened are left unmentioned and ultimately denied.' (orwell/nationalism)
davout: i'm kinda hesitating between genius and braindamaged for the following idea: what if the chain gets synced backwards from the top?
davout: see a bunch of nodes sorta agreeing on the same chain tip, take it, work backwards to genesis block easily since you can easily fetch previous block, once done verify chain and get back to usual bzns
asciilifeform: work backwards to genesis block >> or to perdition
davout: asciilifeform: yeah, there's that but unless you're maliciously partitioned away from the legit network it wouldn't be trivial to fool you
davout: you'd kinda notice it quickly too if every other node you ask about this (N-1) block tells you to gtfo
davout: just my 2 gavincoins
davout: i'm off, laterz
asciilifeform: blocks=180294 bastards=18412 peak=168M
asciilifeform: pogo: 187387
mircea_popescu: davout how do you know what the top is ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and how well that worked for the nationalists is evident everwhere around us!
mircea_popescu: what was the hands-down, no question asked, no doubt possible dominant party and c ultural force of the 1930s ?
mircea_popescu: anihilated by 1960.
mircea_popescu: completely gone by 1990.
mircea_popescu: such success...
mircea_popescu: that the socialists are doing the same thing...
mircea_popescu: so what, anihilated by 2020, completely gone by 2050, hopefully we'll be smarter than to do it over.
mircea_popescu: (but to anyone not quite seeing the world for what it is : yes we are at war, and yes the year is about 1944, and yes the fucking nazis are running the fucking concentration camps and invaded russia and so on and so forth. you had no idera about it, but similarly you had no idea about it in 1944. the only reason this is being an issue is because the introduction of the bitcoin tank/bomber/submarine is massively turning
mircea_popescu: the tide, and suddenly all sorts of disparate and previously doomed forces are now converging.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't have known there's such a thing as "french partisans" if there wasn't a 1945, either)
mircea_popescu: so no, when i'm talking about hanging each and every us bureaucrat, through a war crimes court, within our lifetime i am not being in any sense and to any degree metaphorical.
mircea_popescu: !rated danielpbarron
assbot: You rated user danielpbarron on 29-Jul-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Works at spreading teh words..
mircea_popescu: !rate danielpbarron 2 He's sort of like an apostle.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.danielpbarron.2:e914b08d143ed8ee29b21a5f3b814da37ff15c65f82fad6f4b4860a73a779d1c
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for danielpbarron from 1 to 2 with note: He's sort of like an apostle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00041175 = 8.6673 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34218 @ 0.00041563 = 14.222 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: i've got archlinux on this thing now
danielpbarron: i'll look into doing openbsd later once i get the hang of this
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: << criminal justice mega-lulzmine
assbot: The Murder Book : Hans Reiser: former genius, convicted murderer and future mad scientist? ... ( )
asciilifeform: specifically,
asciilifeform: 'At one point, before trial, Hans was offered a three-year-sentence if he pled guilty to manslaughter. He refused and will now serve at least 15 years behind bars.)'
asciilifeform did not verify this
BingoBoingo: Ah
asciilifeform: the 'plea bargain' thing works by demonstrative public floggings like this
ben_vulpes: former genius?
ben_vulpes: i wonder how that works.
asciilifeform: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
asciilifeform: it works like this:
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2015 01:09:34; asciilifeform: 'Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should — in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 — and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible. Much of the propagandist writing of our time amounts to
asciilifeform: modern state claims sovereignty over not only present, future, but also past.
ben_vulpes: satoshi the thought-criminal.
asciilifeform: the easiest, most often reached-for weapon is 'this never happened'
asciilifeform: if it fails, then, 'thought crime'
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: iirc, openbsd will not see the nand flash on the 'pogo.'
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there may be an experimental driver.
danielpbarron: oh :<
midnightmagic: uh. just for the record, I strongly disagree with plotting the violent overthrow of the USG. I do not, have not, will not, and would not even in the face of violent coercion, consider the use of violent and/or lethal force as a vehicle of governmental change. I am not a seditionist.
danielpbarron: what about financial overthrow?
midnightmagic: fair game if it's a peaceful choice on the part of people.
asciilifeform: 'if you saw a man drowning, and had the choice between saving him and taking a photo, what aperture and exposure settings would you use ?'
midnightmagic: financial starvation of classic authority structures is the primary reason I am interested in bitcoin: because it allows us to do so without shedding a drop of their blood.
asciilifeform does not expect to outlive usg by very long
asciilifeform: ^ for reasons described in the 'last psychiatrist' essay linked to by mircea_popescu.
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: if you're actually expecting to 'starve' the state by using bitcoin, you may end up somewhat disappointed. it lives on flesh, not money.
asciilifeform: it is worth reading about ancient slave empires
asciilifeform: particularly relevant here is that of the inca
asciilifeform: who did not (afaik) make use of money, but had extensive system of slave labour (corvee labour, technically, form of taxation) and the closest thing to a totalitarian state they could pull off under their tech level
asciilifeform: complete with collectivized agriculture.
asciilifeform: notably absent from the picture: fiat (or any other) currency, debased or otherwise
asciilifeform: not trying to argue that usg will somehow transmogrify into inca empire when it 'needs to'
decimation: asciilifeform: "nationalism" strikes me as the wrong word here
asciilifeform: but that it is not entirely impossible to find a pill against whatever kind of resistance
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29264 @ 0.00041175 = 12.0495 BTC [-]
decimation: orwell was probably trying to name his enemies, but 'utopian dreamers' seems more fitting
midnightmagic: dude. seriously plotting or fomenting the physical murder of the USG is sedition, insurrection, and various related crimes and there's no fucking way I'm interested in being associated with it just because I'm lurking in here.
asciilifeform: as described in the mega-super book, 'the art of not being governed' (j.c.scott)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i forget, who is hans reiser ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reiserfs.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> i wonder how that works. << drugs are bad mkay ?
decimation: he was the guy who wrote a filesytem; murdered his mail order bridge later
decimation: lol s/bridge/bride
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: killed (reasonably certainly) wife
asciilifeform still uses reiserfs...
midnightmagic: so. no offence, I'm pretty sure you guys aren't actually real seditionists, but I wanted to be on the record about what I think about violence.
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: 4 times is probably enough for the nsa tape
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i added it to the bash for you. once jurov or some mod gets around to looking at it it may even show up
mircea_popescu: pity deedbot's temporarily dead.
asciilifeform envisions meeting midnightmagic at neighbouring gallows: 'but i....'
joecool: reiser4 is an excellent fs, i used to talk to some of his employees back when i maintained a patchset
mircea_popescu: <midnightmagic> financial starvation of classic authority structures is the primary reason I am interested in bitcoin: because it allows us to do so without shedding a drop of their blood. << this is a good principle. however, people starve best if they are surrounded by barbed wire manned by other people firmly decided to escalate force to any degree.
joecool: too bad he had to shove nina in lost+found
decimation: midnightmagic: you would not resort to violence under any circumstances?
mircea_popescu: so... yes. for as long as the usg is willing to die peacefully, it will die peacefully. and if it wishes to try and make a break for it, all the same, it will die bloodily.
mircea_popescu: the only point not in contention : it will die.
mircea_popescu: and i will be there to piss on its grave.
midnightmagic: decimation: justified violence can take many forms including self-defence from immediate and credible threats to life and limb.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> not trying to argue that usg will somehow transmogrify into inca empire when it 'needs to' << ballas is fundamentally (if perhaps unaware-ly) arguing that it already has. that's where his numerous psychanalisis pieces on the public mindset converge.
asciilifeform: aha
midnightmagic: wolman also agrees
asciilifeform: presently the corvee labour is proxy, through taxation and debasement
asciilifeform: if these somehow hiccup - then direct.
ben_vulpes: <midnightmagic> uh. just for the record << lol what inspired this insipid bit of authority pandering?
mircea_popescu: hey, guy's entitled to his own position.
ben_vulpes: i'm just amused at the presentation
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: As opposed to what? Pandering to the likes of you?
mircea_popescu: zing.
midnightmagic: please.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic no, srsly, that was good >D
ben_vulpes: it'd be cool man!
ben_vulpes: like the first time anyone's ever done so!
ben_vulpes: you could be the first! best!
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: let's all xxxxxxxx.
ben_vulpes: normally i'm brushed off like a fly.
ben_vulpes: it's your lucky day!
mircea_popescu: basically, he's not the right age to run away from home with you vulpes.
ben_vulpes: shame, that.
asciilifeform notes for the record (tm) that he is not in favour of deposing glorious fuhrer kim jong un, as that would be criminal, seditious, murderous, immoral...
mircea_popescu: possibly also not the right gender.
ben_vulpes: nah, plenty of labor to go around.
ben_vulpes: solar troughs don't build themselves.
mircea_popescu: i am in favour of deposing any kim, just as long as a) it's done violently and b) not by the us.
asciilifeform: hey kakobrekla, can we have a '! oath <argument>' - returns 'plotting or fomenting the physical murder of <argument> is sedition, insurrection, and various related crimes and there's no fucking way I'm interested in being associated with it just because I'm lurking in here.'
asciilifeform: e.g.,
mircea_popescu: i would like to learn more about how one can make money by renting out the space inside his nose.
asciilifeform: !oath kennedy
mircea_popescu: incidentally, is sedition actually still a crime
ben_vulpes: yup!
trinque: pretty sure the round of patriot legislation covered everything
asciilifeform: nobody cancelled it
ben_vulpes recently filled out passport paperwork
mircea_popescu: oh there's that.
ben_vulpes: you gotta swear to all sortsa funny stuff
trinque: good ol enabling act
ben_vulpes: including not calling the funny stuff funny
ben_vulpes: don't call the funny stuff funny, midnightmagic, they might erect you your own gibbet
asciilifeform: that's the thing with sucking state cock, it's infinitely long
mircea_popescu: In 1981, Oscar López Rivera, a Puerto Rican Nationalist and Vietnam war veteran, was convicted and sentenced to 70 years in prison for seditious conspiracy and various other offenses. He was among the 16 Puerto Rican nationalists offered conditional clemency by U.S. President Bill Clinton in 1999, but he rejected the offer. His sister, Zenaida López, said he refused the offer because on parole, he would be in "prison
mircea_popescu: outside prison." López Rivera is said to be "among the longest held political prisoners in the history of Puerto Rico and in the world." He has been jailed for 33 years, 8 months and 1 day.
asciilifeform: throat - finitely deep
mircea_popescu: yep, check it out.
midnightmagic: sedition has never not been a crime.
mircea_popescu: who knew the us holds the record for "longest held political prisoner"
asciilifeform: ;;google treason never prospers for the reason
gribble: Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper ...: <>; Treason - Wikiquote: <>; John Harington (inventor) - Wikiquote: <>
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you have to excuse me, i come from a jurisdiction where sedition is considered the right and proper attitude of the citizen.
mircea_popescu: and has been, for centuries.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: I'm not surprised by that sort of record. :( Their prison population is a disgrace to humanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite exactly that.
trinque mumbles something jefferson something... sighs
ben_vulpes: nah, give up trinque
asciilifeform: at least we can take copies of 'declaration of independence' (the u.s. one, not mircea_popescu's...) to jail now
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh I have
asciilifeform: at least if 'it was not used in the commission of the crimes'
trinque: still, he said that much
asciilifeform: (as per the barrett brown sentence)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "he bitchslapped the officer with a large print version of the complete tax code"
asciilifeform: pretty sure complete copy would leave a man not only dead but street pizza
midnightmagic: I'm not sure but I think that non-US citizens can't be tried for treason..
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic im sure the usg thinks it can do anything it pleases.
trinque: midnightmagic: what in the fuck treason do you think you've committed by being within earshot of a discussion of history
mircea_popescu: Laura Berg, a nurse at a U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs hospital in New Mexico was investigated for sedition in September 2005 after writing a letter to the editor of a local newspaper, accusing several national leaders of criminal negligence. Though their action was later deemed unwarranted by the director of Veteran Affairs, local human resources personnel took it upon themselves to request an FBI investigation.
mircea_popescu: Ms. Berg was represented by the ACLU. Charges were dropped in 2006.
mircea_popescu: On March 28, 2010, nine members of the Hutaree militia were arrested and charged with crimes including seditious conspiracy.
mircea_popescu: apparently quite alive and kicking, as a legal device.
mircea_popescu: erryday a new reason to not want to be an usian.
asciilifeform: hutaree charges were dropped, iirc
asciilifeform: they may have been an unsuccessful 'death ray' gambit.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: !s new york death ray
assbot: 10 results for 'new york death ray' :
asciilifeform: ^ intro for n00bs
mircea_popescu: "Three members pled guilty to possessing a machine gun and were sentenced to time served."
asciilifeform: odd
asciilifeform: ianal, but that's a 5-year minimal
mircea_popescu: well who knows what happened thar.
mircea_popescu: ah, plea bargain.
asciilifeform: at this point one can probably 'plea bargain' to witchcraft
asciilifeform: or killing president garfield
trinque: "seditious intent"
asciilifeform: 'erryday a new reason to not want to be an usian' >>>>> 'every day a new reason not to want to be dragged behind a truck until nothing remains on the rope but a flap of skin'
trinque: you know, like raping someone with your eyes
mircea_popescu: 18 U.S.C. § 2384 "If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or p
mircea_popescu: ossess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."
mircea_popescu: immunity granted by gtfo.
mircea_popescu: "The federal government has never won a sedition case against militia-types, white supremacists, or neo-Nazis. Since World War I, they have won numerous seditious conspiracy cases against Puerto Rican independentistas, communists and others on the left, but no one on the radical right has ever been convicted of plotting to overthrow by force of arms the government of the United States."
asciilifeform: just don't sail on a flagless semi-submersible boat.
mircea_popescu: or, apparently, by not being a libertard.
asciilifeform: or work in a nuclear program
asciilifeform: these - apparently - are specifically (inverse?)extraterritorial
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic seems you're safe enough here. careful in #gavincoin-assets tho
mircea_popescu: the above being also an interesting consideration for they who wish to argue "the libertards are in charge". pls start from that and let me hear the logic.
trinque: anyone else from the US want to piss himself publically?
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: you won't be going to jail for sedition. it'll be something more prosaic, like 'conspiracy to manufacture a controlled substance'
asciilifeform: (do you have a garage? garden shed? did you take chemistry in school? probably guilty.)
mircea_popescu: come to think of it... bitcoin not being money, not really a good... clearly it is a SUBSTANCE, right ?
mircea_popescu: it gotta be something.
mircea_popescu: so therefore...
trinque: it's economic warfare
asciilifeform: !s financial terrorism
assbot: 0 results for 'financial terrorism' :
assbot: Bernard von NotHaus: The 'Domestic Terrorist' You Can Call a Hero ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ him
asciilifeform: ‘Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism. While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country. We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challen
asciilifeform: ge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.‘
asciilifeform: (prosecutor)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in practice what he did is not really defensible tho.
mircea_popescu: it's not much unlike someone going around trying to pass gavincoin for "real bitcoin", which we don't stand for.
asciilifeform: nothaus was a diagnosable idiot
asciilifeform: just the right candidate for 'death ray'
asciilifeform: but, interestingly,
assbot: Beyond Bernard von NotHaus - The New York Sun ... ( )
trinque: ;;gettrust midnightmagic
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask midnightmagic!~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic. Trust relationship from user trinque to user midnightmagic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 2 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Mon Mar 7 15:45:54 2011
mircea_popescu: We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.‘ << this part is the funniest, incidentally, considering the APPALLING record of usg agents trying to infiltrate a god damnd public channel so far.
trinque: I'm gonna head out; man that pissed me off
asciilifeform still thinks we get the discount-shelf infiltrators here
asciilifeform: srsly, e.g., mr. spam ?
mircea_popescu: nah.
mircea_popescu: horvath's just an eager idiot.
mircea_popescu: if oyu carefully read the log, you'll see a couple explicitly exposed tho.
asciilifeform: i remember the dude from ro
mircea_popescu: such lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, off to eat brb
BingoBoingo: So who what's to test qntra's new, more modern CSS?
hanbot: that sucks.
asciilifeform: blocks=183670 bastards=23739 peak=206M
asciilifeform: pogo: 187845
asciilifeform: inference, with only a small leap, is that orphanage-burner testatron would have oomkilled precisely one time, had it ran under 128M constraint
asciilifeform: the logical thing to do, for it, would be to jettison the entire orphanage if approaching the hard limit
asciilifeform: this would require replacement of allocator (as suggested in thread from 2 days ago)
asciilifeform: who the hell writes a program as hungry as this, that is entirely unaware of its own resource consumption and lacks any feedback mechanism ?
asciilifeform knows how/why but still bewildered that no one has at any point seen it fit to bolt on basic sanity
hanbot: disk space doubles every runtime.
asciilifeform: hanbot: figure in question is ram footprint
hanbot: that triples.
asciilifeform: not in the experimental 'orphanage burner' build
hanbot: are you contradicting internet economists?
asciilifeform: l0lz
hanbot: for the record, i deeply enjoyed the sedition discussion. i vote for asciilifeform as most likely to sedite.
asciilifeform hoists jolly roger:
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ also happens to explain the memory thing
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al: happen to remember what block height was at the time 0.5.3 was current? if this is in the log, i have utterly failed to find it
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: dude from ro?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74500 @ 0.00040996 = 30.542 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform [] knows how/why but still bewildered that no one has at any point seen it fit to bolt on basic sanity << features, bro
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "block height" << excellent question
ben_vulpes: "git" shows sun march 11 2012 as last commit at ref tagged as v0.5.3
mircea_popescu: 0.5.3 was march-ish 2012. about 170k
mircea_popescu: nah pretty sure it was spring.
ben_vulpes: march *is* spring
mircea_popescu: o nm i read the 11th as a month
mircea_popescu: march yes.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the logical thing to do, for it, would be to jettison the entire orphanage if approaching the hard limit << this may be a good idea, if actually something's needed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56050 @ 0.00040626 = 22.7709 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: needs replacement std::allocator - proggy is not normally aware of own footprint
mircea_popescu: myeah.
ben_vulpes just observed an interesting
asciilifeform: even if for some peculiar reason it were not possible to reduce consumption, the thing ought to know when about to be killed - and shoot itself in the head with some decorum, rather than wait
ben_vulpes: toolbox on the table has a top tray and a bottom tray, connected by parallel braces, mounted at identically-spaced points on both trays. trays move on an arc defined by mechanisms constraints.
asciilifeform has one of these
ben_vulpes: there's an interesting configuration of the trays where the center of gravity of the top tray is balances the CoG of the bottom tray. this requires torquing the whole assembly such that the CoG's go in a funny place.
hanbot: ben_vulpes it's a trap!
mircea_popescu: vulpes is home alone and trying to find alternative passtimes to masturbation.
ben_vulpes: resulting in the thing resting at the unstable point at the top of the arc.
ben_vulpes: i'd post a pic but...le "smart"phone.
ben_vulpes: anyways, the parallels between how bitcoind only accidentally works and misc odd behaviors of this ancient floppy plastic toolbox are very apparent to me at precisely this moment.
ben_vulpes: a thing i learned about engineering when i was...oh, six...was that the steam engine doesn't just work because doodz sat and tweaked at it until everything went around just rightly.
ben_vulpes: no
ben_vulpes: someone *designed* each and every mechanism to work together.
ben_vulpes: if you'll forgive the rant, this is what the satoshi codebase lacks.
ben_vulpes: a coherent vision of how all of the parts interact, the emergent behaviors of the system and a robustish bit of software that can make sense of the system.
mircea_popescu: dude.
mircea_popescu: it's a prototype.
mircea_popescu: it was never seriously supposed to work, and it was specifically not intended to be used.
mircea_popescu: but... "the community"
ben_vulpes: once it worked, though, it was doomed to work.
ben_vulpes: "software never fails", and so on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well actually, the thing could just look at how much memory it can allocate and then never outpace it.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah.
ben_vulpes: kinda fascinating
ben_vulpes: it's almost as though the satoshi codebase were a projection of software that knows how to talk to the one! true! bitcoin protocol.
mircea_popescu: something simple like, "whenever a parentless block is handed over the retaining of which would cause memory pool for holding parentless blocks to be overrun, a) drop the handed block ; b) close the connection and ban that peer for half hour ; c) discard all chains of parentless blocks longer than six items ; d) connect again"
mircea_popescu: !up teek
ben_vulpes: should really ask for specific blocks and drop all unasked for
mircea_popescu: this ensures that trying to ram-dos the node would require as many different nodes as a fifth of the total number of blocks it can hold.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's not how this works tho
ben_vulpes: pardon?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pardon?
mircea_popescu: you don't ask for bloicks
ben_vulpes: inv cannot be used for block retrieval?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: straight to jurov's www
mircea_popescu: yeh
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
asciilifeform: incidentally
asciilifeform: the testatron just now outpaced the 'pogo.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, you're writing me a letter right ?
asciilifeform: yes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92785 @ 0.00041141 = 38.1727 BTC [+]
hanbot: friendly reminder to not go to the library horny:
assbot: Kendra Sunderland Admits To Filming Library Sex Video ... ( )
mircea_popescu: is she the short sweet ass ?
hanbot: i dunno anything about her ass other than it being in the wrong jurisdiction
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: her.
mircea_popescu: best library slut so far.
hanbot: nah, apparently that one wasn't indecent enough for a year of jail
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00041625 = 2.8513 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: she takes it pretty far, eventually is all naked
mircea_popescu: clearly enjoying herself too, which goes a long way
cazalla: i remember seeing that and thinking surely it's staged
mircea_popescu: doubt it.
mircea_popescu: the budgets these girls make work...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70971 @ 0.00043627 = 30.9625 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: davout: How is the new Qntra mobile experience?
TomServo: BingoBoingo: Looking very nice over here.
BingoBoingo: TomServo: Thanks.
cazalla: wow, they fkn locked the fork off thread because hey.. can't have actual blocksize increase discussion can you..
assbot: Fork off ... ( )
mircea_popescu: lolwut
decimation: << solution: only signed packets get to initiate transactions on your node?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:39:06; asciilifeform: likewise, the orphans thing is an easy ddos vector
decimation: lolz "Implicit in the the nature of the location an the assertion of the police station being a "safe space" for conducting commerce is that this location open 24 hours a day and 7 days per week is under constant surveillance." <<
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2015 04:45:31; mircea_popescu: you're stuck hiding in your gated compound from imaginary niggers.
mircea_popescu: heh
decimation: I like that line, because it summarizes the activity of about 90% of the american 'security state'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47700 @ 0.00041625 = 19.8551 BTC [-]
trinque: mobile qntra looks great!
BingoBoingo: Thanks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100982 @ 0.00042291 = 42.7063 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: << mega-lol
assbot: Fork off ... ( )
asciilifeform: so -that- was the 'run into the ground' thing
asciilifeform was never able to read the phorum for more than a few min. at a stretch
decimation: !rate midnightmagic 1 is not a seditionist
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
asciilifeform: 'Any more information on this? The fact that he is secretly building 10k nodes on a network with 7k active nodes and dropping is a concern in itself and makes me want to support Gavin's hardfork even more so.'
asciilifeform chokes from lulz
BingoBoingo: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
decimation: asciilifeform: you are a seditionist apparently
asciilifeform: how classy
decimation: why didn't you bring your concerns to the community so they can try and find a solution together?
decimation: voice, not exit
asciilifeform: and here i was, thinking i'll have to hang for jaywalking
asciilifeform: 'Gavin's testing of 20MB blocks shows that loading (disk io) for these is 4x faster than 20 1MB blocks.' << did someone actually make this argument ?
asciilifeform: disk readahead caches, etc. evidently never happened?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21819 @ 0.00043956 = 9.5908 BTC [+]
asciilifeform must have awakened in parallel universe
BingoBoingo: New Speak
decimation: asciilifeform: how can 20 MB 'load' faster than 20 MB?
BingoBoingo: Also for inquirers into the new qntra bsns
assbot: Result for ... ( )
asciilifeform: decimation: fragmentation & seek penalty on ancient mechanical drives ?
asciilifeform: decimation: plus an obligatory helping of os brain damage
decimation: I guess. Like is he literally comparing fread(20MB) vs 20x fread(1MB)?
asciilifeform: assuming there was any actual comparison
asciilifeform: they sure don't make lying sc4mz0rz like they used to.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It used to be they couldn't fake as many
decimation: well, apparently no one can inspect anything at the layer below 'libc'
asciilifeform: forget the source; evidently, books - do not exist
Apocalyptic: <cazalla> wow, they fkn locked the fork off thread because hey.. can't have actual blocksize increase discussion can you.. // this is outrageous, but not unexpected
BingoBoingo: Books are for those with a Book budget
asciilifeform: or a set of legs
asciilifeform: libraries - not banned yet
asciilifeform: (though it is being worked on)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53221 @ 0.00041346 = 22.0048 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: most 'modern' libraries have slowly self-banned books
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00040859 = 3.1257 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> so -that- was << myeah lel.
decimation: they are 'too expensive', and generally disfavored over other 'media' and 'meeting spaces'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But using legs option for the book budget costs time other wise spent in the Herp pile
asciilifeform: laugh if you will, but i'm still trying to apprehend what it is 'most people' actually -do- with their time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> "makes me want to" clearly the intensity of desire is related to the effectuality of results.
decimation: derp on irc?
mircea_popescu: (law of attraction)
asciilifeform: just how many hours can one wank in one sitting
mircea_popescu: depends if they touch the wiener or not.
mircea_popescu: if they don't... many.
asciilifeform: doesn't sound like much fun
BingoBoingo: I believe the technical term is "Circlejerk" as in formally with a bunch of fellows sitting around a bottle of lube they all Herp their Derp
assbot: ... ( )
mircea_popescu: decimation> I guess. Like is he literally comparing fread(20MB) vs 20x fread(1MB)? << the guy's technical incompetence is not just amusing in itself,
mircea_popescu: but in what it reveals of teh retarded follower set.
mircea_popescu: maybe they should want really hard for fread to act differently ?
asciilifeform: oughta phone poettering.
asciilifeform: he'll help.
mircea_popescu: where was that bit about ls implementations that take less than half the ram are fat shaming and therefore not allowed ?
asciilifeform: was it dan mocsny?
asciilifeform: i definitely recall he was 'advocating' for 'diversity' in petri dishes, in every lab!!!11!! in one post
mircea_popescu: nah some recently linked spoof of feministos
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude those rats are fucking adorkable.
asciilifeform: as with many idiocies, this one may be approaching 'parody event horizon' where the reality is not readily distinguishable from the spoof world
mircea_popescu: right.
cazalla: aaand gavin appears in the new blocksize thread after previous one was locked
assbot: Bitcoin 20MB Fork ... ( )
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously
mircea_popescu: cazalla lol they made a new one without all the inconvenient stuff in it ?
mircea_popescu: why does gavin behave exactly like a cheap forum scammor ?
cazalla: i guess OP might've locked the first one but who really knows
mircea_popescu: is it perhaps because the path of evil is really quite narrow ? funel shaped at first, line thin six months later ?
BingoBoingo: << The Inclusive not *nix
assbot: The-Feminist-Software-Foundation/ToleranUX · GitHub ... ( )
danielpbarron: "The video was leaked by either another student on the OSU campus, or another web cam model from Romania." << from the naked library video thing
danielpbarron: the "fork off" thread looks like it was closed by railzand
assbot: Fork off ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "If bitcoin costs 4 dollars to teleport "virtual gold" , I'm going to switch to an alt that can allow me to teleport another form of "virtual gold" for a couple pennies."
mircea_popescu: thjat part was pretty good.
mircea_popescu: if the world were signficiantly impacted by people whose choices are governed by the difference between 4 bux and "pennies", we could just burn it, for it failed.
mircea_popescu: no wonder he eats shit. i've yet to see food at 4 dollars.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, is that FSF a good troll or what?
BingoBoingo: It is indeed a good troll
decimation: what about the poor russian family who was trying to move 50 bux?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, how about the wife starts camming ?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Their optimal solution was actually using Western Union and him buying BTC in Russia where the liwuidity is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00040859 = 11.1749 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: lmao & gavin
mircea_popescu: "I think we should target somebody with a "pretty good" computer and a "pretty good" home internet connection."
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu:
mircea_popescu: the logic of logical logicians, also internet economists and generally stupid fat people.
asciilifeform goes to buy a Pretty Good Computer
asciilifeform: do they still have those.
BingoBoingo: Pogo is pretty good computer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113650 @ 0.00040657 = 46.2067 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: seems like BingoBoingo has not tried it yet
BingoBoingo: Or at least somewhat adequate computer for a fifth of cheap whiskey
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think the girl contributing to the computer community over at best buy would go "do you want good or do you want pretty ?"
BingoBoingo: I have not tried it, but it seems like the most computer you can get for the equivalent of a fifth of Evan Williams
asciilifeform realized that BingoBoingo could actually get vga on that thing, if he wanted, using one of the ubiquitous usb2 framebuffer boxes
BingoBoingo: Indeed
BingoBoingo: And qntra is now VGA friendly-er for readers
assbot: HP USB Graphics Adapter - USB video cards - HP: NL571AA ... ( )
asciilifeform ^ has bag of these
mircea_popescu: "Hello, My name is Manikanteswar, Business Executive Media Buying for Capslock Digital Solutions Pvt Ltd (, one of the biggest upcoming Ad Network in the Industry. I'm contacting you as we are looking for inventory like yours and we are ready to discuss the terms of a very profitable partnership. "
mircea_popescu: cazalla you folks got one of these ?
asciilifeform: << driver
assbot: Linux Kernel Driver DataBase: CONFIG_FB_UDL: Displaylink USB Framebuffer support ... ( )
cazalla: mircea_popescu, nope
mircea_popescu: hm i guess im speshul
cazalla: BingoBoingo has made room for adverts on the left/right side of qntra so we're ready for gaw miners adverts though
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Actually I dunno how to fill those spaces. I just made em. No idea how to fill them.
mircea_popescu: i dun think qntra is advertising huh.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you (safely) examine the various malware turds that end up in your domain mailbox?
BingoBoingo: Well, eventually is possible for some levels of eventually. We just need companies to emerge which would find advertising on qntra an economic proposition.
decimation: I suspect one can learn much about malware by putting out a few honeypots
asciilifeform: decimation: occasionally
asciilifeform: decimation: not long ago, i did this for a living.
decimation: or just rain buckets
asciilifeform: it wasn't just from one spambox of course.
decimation: I would guess that most malware is trivally derived from some toolkit
asciilifeform: 80-90% of what i saw was a variation on some very tired theme.
asciilifeform: at least half the time - 'zeus' et al.
mircea_popescu: "It's hard to take any of his thoughts seriously when he says stuff like 'libertard', which isn't clear what that has to do with his main point, or if he means retarded liberal or libertarian."
mircea_popescu: /r/anarcho-stuff does not like me because it is not directly clear what side of a meaningless debate i favor!
decimation: in theory, a libertarian is in favor of freedom from the state, but in practice they generally find themselves to be enslaved by statist liberals
mircea_popescu: but notice the guy who essentially says, "i can not eat this butter because it doesn't come in a properly labelled box"
mircea_popescu: i have seen this irl, incidentally. lots of traditional products come in no box. such as smoked trout in pine leaf, or a certain type of cheese in pine bark
mircea_popescu: or on it goes.
mircea_popescu: i personally loathe labels and take them off pretty much everything, but apparently the converse mental condition also exists.
asciilifeform: srsly ?!!
mircea_popescu: "you're really good but we can't hire you because no diploma"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes ?
asciilifeform: diploma - sure
asciilifeform: cheese?
mircea_popescu: yep. you need nothing more than your own fucking nose to distinguish cheese.
asciilifeform: i was having this dispute with pet not long ago. whether anyone voluntarily eats synthetic cheese
mircea_popescu: ;;google brinza de burduf in scoarta de brad
asciilifeform: it finds its way into spots where its presence cannot be explained by mere pauperism
gribble: Bucegi Farm: <>; Ferma Bucegi: Branza de Burduf in coaja de brad: <>; Branza de burduf - YouTube: <>
asciilifeform: some folks, it appears, actually insist on it
asciilifeform: through childhood habit, brain damage, or some other cause
mircea_popescu: << this guy
assbot: ... ( )
asciilifeform: incidentally (non-u.s. folks) if you visit usa and are offered 'american cheese' - run, not walk, to exit
decimation: asciilifeform: you wouldn't prefer a slice of 'velveeta' to a block of cheddar of known provenance?
asciilifeform: 'velveeta' iirc isn't even a dairy product
asciilifeform: 100% petro
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'velveeta' iirc isn't even a dairy product << Velveeta is totally a dairy byproduct
mircea_popescu: hm... i wonder how good of an anal lube it makes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's that made in? a pipe ?
decimation: nah I think it has milk in it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a chunk of pine bark
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform wants
decimation: "In 2002, the FDA issued a Warning Letter to Kraft that Velveeta was being sold with packaging that described it as a "Pasteurized Process Cheese Spread",[8] which the FDA claimed was misbranded because the product declared milk protein concentrate (MPC) in its ingredients listing. Velveeta is now sold in the US as a "Pasteurized Prepared Cheese Product",[9] a term for which the FDA does not maintain a standard of identity, and which
decimation: therefore may contain MPC."

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