mod6: freshwater fish gotta be cooked tho.
ben_vulpes: flyover state problems
mircea_popescu: ok this is the lulz of all time. so /me checks out the bavarian motors local website. it's https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bavarian-Motors-Costa-Rica-BMW/249753901736814
ben_vulpes: i kid mod6 i kid
mircea_popescu: buncha angry people from years ago.
mircea_popescu: this website-for-business craze is totally paying off.
ben_vulpes has lamb chops to grill, bbl
ben_vulpes: !!up punto
deedbot: punto voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: whaack: you can self-up.
trinque: !!gettrust deedbot whaack
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
trinque: !!up whaack
deedbot: whaack voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: make sure ya snag your key then, before departing for good?
whaack: of course :)
mircea_popescu: btw @all, lemme know if you have complaints/comments re the whole b itcoin learning thing before it gets drywalled.
mircea_popescu: esp if there's any glaring holes / errors that i dun wanna discover you know, once the submissions get processed.
mircea_popescu: ooo and in other news, turkish parliament approves turkish army depoloyment in qatar.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> speaking of old hardware, /me just bought a bmw 320i from 2005. << Oh my, A German!
ben_vulpes: i still gotta read through that, mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes is woefully behind on homework
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo actually i don't think i ever bought a non-german car.
mircea_popescu: "Strict and firm action will be taken against anyone who shows sympathy or any form of bias towards Qatar, or against anyone who objects to the position of the United Arab Emirates, whether it be through the means of social media, or any type of written, visual or verbal form," Gulf News quoted UAE Attorney-General Hamad Saif al-Shamsi as saying. << bwahahaha check out the us lap dogs.
mircea_popescu: aspiring to be england over there.
BingoBoingo: Ah, I would have expected a Unimog given the terrain description
BingoBoingo: And Unimog can carry more girlies
BingoBoingo: And can be fitted with volvanic ash plow
mircea_popescu: get it armored, should carry some pretty decent firepower
BingoBoingo: Not really enough torque to wear armor or carry hamplanets
mircea_popescu: o ya. it's a primo apc.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : most unimogs have less hp than my bmw.
BingoBoingo: Most unimogs have less hp than riding lawnmower
mircea_popescu: 50 or so iirc
BingoBoingo: Ah, so 2 riding lawnmowers
mircea_popescu: though im pretty sure they race. dakar and whatnot.
BingoBoingo: Oh there seems to be class for everything at dakar. Unimogs, bikes, rail trains, deckless lawnmowers
BingoBoingo: !!up juantelez
deedbot: juantelez voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: juantelez: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
pete_dushenski: speaking of dakar, the red bull team uses kamaz 4326 trucks! (with a mental 1000hp diesel engine). seen here in action : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcEuuakWPg
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu | ooo and in other news, turkish parliament approves turkish army depoloyment in qatar. << at least someone in fiat isn't afraid to get their hands dirty.
BingoBoingo: !!up ModeratelyAttrac
deedbot: ModeratelyAttrac voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: Well if it isn't Shanti
shinohai: !~later tell whaack I received tu grabacion and will send back suggestions later today.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai pops popcorn and prepares ice for drinks ahead of Comey hearing momentarily ....
BingoBoingo: Meh, his written statement makes him sound like a nervous aspie a la Elliot
BingoBoingo: And testimony so centered on internal monologue is worthless, because how the fuck is the other person supposd to know?
shinohai: That's what I want to see, his bumbling over the whole thing and butthurt.
shinohai: Imma have to do a shitcoin roundup this week it appears: http://archive.is/PajQy
shinohai: (Cheers to the fellow that thought storing 3 BTC and 55 LTC on Conbase was great idea)
BingoBoingo: Maybe? Prolly best to instead do a seperate headline for each story
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2745.07, vol: 17597.98562296 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2647.933, vol: 6931.80305 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2717.9, vol: 27271.94278436 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2744.833984, vol: 17391.80060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2753.02, vol: 6572.58222827 | Volume-weighted last average: 2727.03864171
shinohai: heya mod6
mod6: how goes the popcorn?
shinohai: BingoBoingo was right, it's a snore. On to other things. >.>
asciilifeform: in other noose, nobody on planet3 seems to know how to disable serialport flowcontrol on openbsd.
asciilifeform: broken os, made by broken people.
asciilifeform: seems to play same ecological role as winblowz -- to make linux look appealing in comparison.
asciilifeform: astonishing, how the militantly retarded can make what seems like simple problem -- to get raw bytes in/out of a comp -- into a near-impossibility
mod6: it is pretty depressing indeed
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667051 << the historic record of such surprises is more or less 100% 'can't get out' vs ~0 'can't get in'
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 03:42 ben_vulpes: heh, friends have been whining, "what if you can't come back!!!1" without ever once considering the corrolary "what if you can't get out?"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667079 << i'd like to visit the parallel universe this was posted from. in mine, the sov folx happily moved to 'civilized west', where to enjoy driving cabs ( rather than, say, the valhalla depicted in the bootleg vhs tapes )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 03:56 mircea_popescu: you know ? dumbass soviets were like this, and then once the 80s were over and shitholistan moved to arab world, they were like that in the 90s.
phf: americans have been trained on the whole iron curtain vs the free world narrative. so now any place that's politically disagreeable is seen as potentially behind iron curtain
asciilifeform: 'bbbut i know a d00d who couldn't get out' 'did he go to north kr ?' 'yes...' 'was he a baptist missionary...' 'yes...' 'which is a jailable offense there..' 'DISGUSTING untermenschen!!!howdarethey'
asciilifeform: ^ which made me wonder, how come the missionaries never go to riyadh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667166 << #1 bullshit of 20something fuck-market-value females with a chance to get out was "wut if i never see $old-relative ever again!!1".
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667079 << i'd like to visit the parallel universe this was posted from. in mine, the sov folx happily moved to 'civilized west', where to enjoy driving cabs ( rather than, say, the valhalla depicted in the bootleg vhs tapes )
mircea_popescu: and i dunno re planets, but on mine ~everyone with any market value had >1 opportunities to gtfo.
mircea_popescu: the fact that elites failed to defect is a very sad testament on the structurally broken in the head nature of postmodern elites. something we know as jwz-ism today, but has preexisted jwz.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't comment on ro emigres, but with su world there was a lulzy twist : 1st wave (1970s -- largely j000z!11) wrote home, 'i'ma full professor and it rocks, come on over', 2nd wave went, to discover that market -- glut, and hello cab
phf: to be fair i heard that one as "i didn't get out, because knew for a fact that $old-relative will get in trouble"
mircea_popescu: phf the specific phrasing of protective female bullshit (PFB) is studied in a different discipline, but sure.
phf: in a sense that fuck relatives, or in a sense that arrest of the escapee relatives was not a thing?
mircea_popescu: in a sense that "mutual responsibility" is never a genuine concern, but out and out fraternizing with the enemy.
asciilifeform: nobody arrested relatives, post-stalin, but various folx were sacked from sugary professorships etc.
mircea_popescu: not "fuck relatives", though that's what dumb female would pretend was said ; not "this doesn't happen", though that's what castrated "allies" might pretend was said. simply "the responsibility for living in jail attaches to each individual liver individually. old relative should have fucking known better than to be there, and shouldn't expect other-people to put out his clothes just because he likes sitting down on the going
mircea_popescu: the whole "expectation" thread linked recently is amusingly on point.
asciilifeform: recall the treblinka thread ?
asciilifeform: !#s treblinka
a111: 19 results for "treblinka", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=treblinka
phf: asciilifeform: that's not true, re no arrests, and there's a lot of creative variations on "sacked from sugary professorships"
asciilifeform: phf: who, and when, where, demonstrably arrested solely because relative went
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's the canonical borderline sleeve transactional outpour, "i cant/couldnt" (age dependent) "study/work/move/whatever because son/husband/father/baby jesus on stick needed me not to".
mircea_popescu: it's never genuine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you two are perhaps confusing arrests "would you please come with us" -> dumbass questioning insistently repeated with jailings "you will sit in this room for 12 years".
mircea_popescu: these are not the same.
mircea_popescu: re later, nobody fucking bothered to pay room and board for some idle schmuck that was too dumb to leave himself in the first place. re former, of fucking course they kept pretending to importance for a day or two, it's what statal socialism is built out of : the organised pretense to importance.
phf: asciilifeform: family conversations in the 90s, and this is the case of "elites" leaving. grandfather at some point was under investigation, because someone in his department defected, but immediate colleagues sacked, wife arrested and imprisoned. this is oboronka though
asciilifeform: i'm yet to read a neutral (i.e. from original documents) account of such a thing -- in modern (1970s+) period
asciilifeform: but plenty of friend-of-a-friend-says-that-his-great-uncle-... etc.
mircea_popescu: now portion of this is also defensive, and should be separated. some dudes leaving left with actual goods. some might have and the soviet accountancy was slightly worse than us, they couldn't quite figure it exactly.
asciilifeform: which puts it into ufology.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: per the su pov, the stuff inside the head of, e.g., serious physicist, is 'actual goods'
mircea_popescu: whereas under discussion here wasn't "guy who worked for army/internal ministry/etc 30 years", but very specifically, young-female-whose-preponderence-of-value-comes-from-specific-fat-distribution-on-body.
asciilifeform: i.e. was put there at great expense of orc exchequer
asciilifeform: and it expected a return
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not just su, fwis.
phf: mircea_popescu: i thought "elites" were under the discussion, but yeah, we went in the direction of females
mircea_popescu: he DID get free education yes ? usg still wants you to pay college debt even if you leave.
mircea_popescu: phf the point you're not seeing because it's so unexpected and i didn't make it specifically was that the definition of elite scales with society. elite is "who has objective value". in late soviet, much like in late usg reich, the strippers were the elite
phf: fwiw, the reason it's friend of a friend, is because su was good at compartmentalization. my grandparents didn't talk about ~anything~ at all at home (and still warned my mom to never talk about anything she hears at home) until after the collapse
mircea_popescu: simply because NOBODY ELSE had any value.
mircea_popescu: this is the sad result of following dumbass ideology (ie, socialism) past its halfway point -- you become -value, notwithstanding in saner context you'd have been +value and thereby some kind of elite.
mircea_popescu: but usistani "best anthropologist of his generation" is no kind of elite. only elite there is kardashian, because ass.
phf: well, but these people aren't escaping into tmsr/pashtun. are we judging elite from our perspective, or what their respective target countries considered elite?
asciilifeform: if you produce 25mil of somebody per yr, that this is definitionally not any sort of elite. hence 0 attempt to seriously skin 'college grads' for their debt ( good fraction of which already condemned to life term of 'starbucks barista' )
phf: people who ~escaped~ from oboronka, back when it still meant something in the early 80s, say, were granted a perceived elite status in u.s. i don't know anyone with that connection who's sweeping floors at mcgrooders, but plently of "NII engineers"
mircea_popescu: phf we are judging elite on the strength of action rather than ideology. properly-fat-female is elite because can fuck. properly-soviet-bureaucrat is not elite because can not do jack shit.
asciilifeform: the 'college' racket is no sort of 'investment in elite' , in usgdom, rather it is a mechanism for assigning ~everyone a debt of $maxint de jure so that their moneys can be harvested at will later, should they happen to come across any
asciilifeform: phf: belenko, perhaps ultimate stereotypical escapee ( stole no less than a mig-25 ! ) iirc was last seen selling used cars.
phf: i don't know any properly soviet bureaucrats who are not also licking ass the same way they were doing it in soviet union, for peanuts. people that i'm talking about escaped, or left in the early 90s, and didn't have any problems going from one closed research institute soviet side to an equivalent u.s. side.
mircea_popescu: what target countries value ideologically is uninteresting. but what they value on the sane basis of valuation, can't be ignored. so if you mix "the french really liked ukr chicks" in there we'll have to distinguish what does "the french" mean, ie, what portion they like because them bitches can suck a golf ball through a garden hose and what portion because they read in paris match that they should.
asciilifeform: gorby sells pizza.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so will obama.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the functioning of soviet economy was not in any sense different. they'd just steal inventions outright, w/e.
asciilifeform: usg offered 'untermenschen' all kinds of lures, while they had (what was perceived as) secrets to trade -- honourary colonelships, professorships, etc.
asciilifeform: when milked dry -- hello cab.
mircea_popescu: it was ~same as short fat dude in 2nd hs year will pay strippers to come hang out with him in the cafeteria.
mircea_popescu: twas supposed to impress the sheiks, 99% of all it was good for. as you can see the problem remains even today, in exactly same terms.
phf: me and asciilifeform have respective selection biases. i don't know any russian professor cab drivers, but plenty of NIH department heads, doing their half science half politikin on the new territory. presumably there's also a world of russian escapees who are driving cabs, that i'm just not connected to
asciilifeform: asciilifeform met both
mircea_popescu: i also met both.
asciilifeform: and considerably moar of 'formerly nii, physics, now cab' than of 'straight from dept chair to dept chair'
mircea_popescu: this is an iffier point. i didn't meet that many altogether. moreover, i didn't discount the "friend of a friend" stories out of hand.
asciilifeform: fact is, finite number of 'elite' slots for runaway orcs to fill
mircea_popescu: this is never true.
asciilifeform: local elite has things mostly divvied up, as anywhere.
mircea_popescu: there's an infinite number of elite slots.
mircea_popescu: what there isn't, are any slots for the aspie 14% to wannabe-elite on the basis of other people's processes, goods and etc.
asciilifeform: for mongol horde - sure. for full professorships -- strictly finite.
phf: i think that's kind of "fact" that all cab drivers like to talk about
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no elite that attaches to "the attaining of full professorship". this is the problem here, the statal parasitizing of the notion of elite.
mircea_popescu: no one is elite because god/pope/king/whoever said so/put his hands on him/invested with phallus-staff and cunt-ring.
asciilifeform: thread was largely about '70s-80s emigres, or so i thought
mircea_popescu: it's a purely internal thing.
asciilifeform: who were 'professorship' types rather than 'i'ma corner the dope market' variety
mircea_popescu: there is no such "type".
mircea_popescu: whole fucking 1990s fiction is ALL ABOUT this, "holy shit mom, i thought i was a type, turns out reality's untyped!"
phf: obviously "i was a surgeon back in my country!1" doesn't ever translate, but ~surgeons~ will easily find their place amongst other countries surgeons
mircea_popescu: quite so.
asciilifeform: funnily enough, worst possible example
asciilifeform: usa has world's most insular medical mafia
mircea_popescu: and underutilized elite "i'm a nigger stomper, but '''we just don't do that in my country'''"will find their actual useful levbel.
asciilifeform: medieval-style guild system, ~0 foreign diplomas count for shit
phf: no it's not, it exactly demonstrates my point!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually us has the largest black medical services market of any place with pretense of civilisation i ever saw. and ALWAYUS DID
asciilifeform: it is difficult to conceive of a dumber choice of place to move to, for orc surgeon, than usa
mircea_popescu: if it's not abortions it's siliconoplasty, sex surgery, you name it.
mircea_popescu: only place where someone will pay good money to you know, have somebody operate on him in the back of a truck.
phf: well, that's true, but that goes for moving to u.s. in general :p
mircea_popescu: phf depends though. reagan usa was very much unlike clinton+ usa.
mircea_popescu: kinda the whole point of "maga".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't obvious, at least to asciilifeform , that having worked as a legit surgeon for 30yrs, say, in orcland, is a serious advantage to starting illustrious butt-silicone-injections-in-back-of-truck career in oakland
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, it's not clear. being elite is the point. people generallty don't want to find out iuf they are or they aren't, and it slows down with age.
asciilifeform: most folx ain't, and know they ain't
mircea_popescu: well then, so they'll be sitting in whatever pen and fuck them, they get no name and no voice.
mircea_popescu: life's too short to be talking to the rocks.
asciilifeform: and when emigrating, follow same logic as ants when 'emigrating' to my kitchen : 'hey, PILES OF SUGAR!!!' rather than 'i'd like to be Tested!'
asciilifeform: show me the 60y.o. who 'test me!1111'
mircea_popescu: i've had the priviledge.
mircea_popescu: it's an awesome thing to behold, i grant ye.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform had the privilege of meeting various folx who moved in '70s-80s -- sounded as if entirely different planet
mircea_popescu: i'd say that's fair, 70s us vs 2010s us might as well be different planets.
asciilifeform: one obvious observation is that the caliber of the 1st wave folx was inevitably higher
asciilifeform: ( tended to be people with 'something to trade', contents of their heads )
mircea_popescu: this is generally how parties work.
mircea_popescu: first the chicks with great tits show up, and make a party out of a desert. then the chicks with ugly tits hear about the nice tit hangout and go there to try and sprinkle some nice on their sad bosoms.
asciilifeform: and - as always - after these come the 'free market!111 i'm sure to find a place, and Profit!111'
asciilifeform: followed by -- 'hey, SUGAR!!11'
mircea_popescu: as that dude selling out in 1929 pointed out -- there are people you really do not wish to commune with. by the time shoeblacks are buying stocks, stocks are for shoeblacks.
mircea_popescu: usg is a major selector for shit by now, btw. ~only female here who was keen on immigrating (got some "criminology" degree from, you guessed it, umd) was ~0 market value call-center-for-lyf operator.
asciilifeform: #1 major at umd !11 ( i shit thee not )
mircea_popescu: i believe it, if nothing else than because i saw this dorkette.
asciilifeform: it absorbs 'i CANT DECIDE WAT DO!11' chix
mircea_popescu: except it's not "i can't decide what to do", it's "i've decided that being a fluffer's handmaiden is below my level. i'm not willing to kill myself over this apparent failure of the world to contain anything fit for me, but i'll shamble about aimlessly for a while maybe something sticks"
mircea_popescu: ie, bulk of female strat.
asciilifeform: they then declare 'pre-law' or 'pre-med' (these are not majors, but specific 'flavour mixins' of courses that qualify them to attempt to get into med or law )
asciilifeform: the typical outcome is a) marriage b) starbucks
mircea_popescu: the incomprehensible part is where the parents don't chain them naked to posts and whip them until they escape or die.
asciilifeform: ( 'starbucks', for foreign n00bz, is a kind of mcdonalds that sells coffee and scones )
mircea_popescu: nono, it WRITES YOUR NAME ON THE CUP
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd be amazed at what gets written on the cup.
asciilifeform: (kollege graduates!111)
mircea_popescu: culture shock of all time, when mp ran into barrista, pointed out to her that he didn't give a shit about what her supposded name is either, when they started the whole nametag crap in the 70s.
mircea_popescu: dork wasn't perceiving itself as part of a cheapo corporate culture ; on THE CONTRARY!!!11
asciilifeform: serving coffee, in modern-day usa, is seen as 'rock bottom', possibly like picking cotton once was -- there is a seemingly infinite bureaucrat population, and drinks seemingly infinite litrage of coffee
asciilifeform: ( which tastes of kerosene )
mircea_popescu: you should see the coffee here btw. it's fucking incredible.
asciilifeform: compared to usa, coffee in ~german airport~ 'fucking incredible'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667112 << i'd like to be rid of the floating point
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 04:22 mircea_popescu: btw @all, lemme know if you have complaints/comments re the whole b itcoin learning thing before it gets drywalled.
asciilifeform: floatingpoint suxxxx
asciilifeform: ( esp. given as you then also xor it with uint8's etc -- the result is ill-defined )
mircea_popescu: you never xor the reals.
mircea_popescu: and i see no way out of having reals sadly, because gotta vary the function list somehow.
asciilifeform: why not with integer arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: but imo in this application, the problems of reals actually are used, for our purpose.
mircea_popescu: "fuck you, reality sucks for machines", as it were.
asciilifeform: nonreproducible arithmetic suxx.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not enough space in ints.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it does, EXCEPT when trying to model reality.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how many bits of space do you want ?
mircea_popescu: whole fucking point here is the deux-pez is not a fully computable machine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i want 7.999999997
asciilifeform: ieee754 'double' is still 64b .
asciilifeform: floats suck mightily, incidentally, especially for 'model reality' or whichever involving rng -- because your uniform rng now becomes a skewed shitsoup because the number line is now unevenly populated
asciilifeform: ( nobody in fact knows how to generate 'uniform float' from rng )
mircea_popescu: it'd seem to me the model as described does in fact generate reals properly from rng.
mircea_popescu: (the transition is via fractionals, as you can see)
asciilifeform: this is not obvious from the recipe
asciilifeform: plox to point?
mircea_popescu: the state is kept as bytes, except for a and b parameters of linear functions, which are reals, and which change through division by ints.
asciilifeform: 'This ISR describes a total of 256 linear functions, indexed in a one-byte list. Each function is of the format ai X + bi, with i taking values from 0 to 255. For each byte in the ISR : the first bit will set ai to negative if 1, and to positive otherewise ; the second bit will set ai to either 1 or 2 ; the third bid will set bi to negative if 1 and to positive otherwise ; the remainder five bits will set the value of bi (from 1 to 3
asciilifeform: 2).' << sounds like the params are uint8's, from this description
asciilifeform: well, ratherm int8s
mircea_popescu: they start as ints.
mircea_popescu: you end up with fn initialized as say -2 x + 14 and then on the first pas it becomes say -2 * 35 / 16 x + 14 * 35 / 16
mircea_popescu: and it keeps going from there, next step eg (-2 * 35 * 7 x + 14 * 35 * 7) / 16**2
asciilifeform: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/average.htm << oblig!1111
asciilifeform: reading mircea_popescu's recipe, asciilifeform begins to suspect -- but cannot yet prove -- that no better-than-chance strategy exists for this game .
mircea_popescu: that would be the point, exactly.
mircea_popescu: "no better than chance strat exists and you can't prove this."
asciilifeform: so why would anybody play, instead of vegas
asciilifeform: ( or shitoshidice or whatever the current vegas is )
mircea_popescu: moreover i imagine ima actually work it like this : anyone can add as many agents as they wish for 1 bitcent per ; total pot minus what the simulation costs is divided to top scoring agents.
mircea_popescu: basically a sort of "find out if you can or can't prove, FOR REALS."
asciilifeform: sounds like... lottery
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you... prove this ?
mircea_popescu: that's the fucking point. as bama well observed, "my old man used to gamble when he plantted his field and prtayed dfor rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well do it without plowing."
mircea_popescu: in any case -- it's not just that there's A LOT of leakage of actual information from universe to player. it's that irl there's provably less.
mircea_popescu: so if anything, the model is biased re the theoretical possibility of learning, by overstating it.
asciilifeform: this imho makes for a pretty good teaching tool re reality, but poor game
mircea_popescu: it just fails to be biased in favbour of internet-shithead-generation nonsense, wikitardia et all.
asciilifeform: ( rather, poor gameplay )
mircea_popescu: hey, i already made a game. this was the reality teaching tool.
asciilifeform: sorta like, what was it, 'depression game' that some chick wrote
asciilifeform: where you cry and then die
asciilifeform: Very Realistic!1111
mircea_popescu: whole thing started as a dispute re the practical meaning of learning.
asciilifeform: if you can 'learn' from rng -- it's a poor rng
mircea_popescu: this is not the case here.
asciilifeform: ( i was half-convinced that mircea_popescu did this exercise as a response to the dieharder thread )
mircea_popescu: there's an ennumerable list of "get infos"
mircea_popescu: you can, for instance, obtain the complete and correct list of the functions in the machine.
mircea_popescu: this, irl, will NEVER happen, an we have proof.
mircea_popescu: in fact, every single player that spends 256 rounds finding out the functions achieves the historical goal of all human science. in this alt universe, it's not "ars longa" etc, it's a specified, 256 step process.
asciilifeform: seems like the 'UMM' turns the thing into an exercise in breaking 'MPHash'
asciilifeform: because without it, the info you get re the 'functions of the machine' is ~0
mircea_popescu: no, you get the info, you just don't directly get how it relates to you.
mircea_popescu: but, you have 8 turns to make SOME sense of it.
mircea_popescu: but the fact remains -- you have "The book" ie a complete description of the god machine. all that's left is to you know, apply them "just the facts" in context.
mircea_popescu: ie, this model GIVES AWAY what the ourdemocracy retards imagine is the whole job, and leaves them to you know, apply "jus' the facts"
asciilifeform: funnily enough, asciilifeform already plays a variant of this game regularly, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-23#1660316
a111: Logged on 2017-05-23 03:18 asciilifeform: the 'formulate as predictor' came from asciilifeform's ongoing regular stabs at breaking shitoshi's rng.
asciilifeform: i dare say the pot is a little bigger, in that casino
mircea_popescu: not clear what relation exists between what you're talking about and what we were talking about.
asciilifeform: both is exercise in breaking a gnarly and largely arbitrary prng.
mircea_popescu: i don't see it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's is actually the slightly more complicated one.
mircea_popescu: especially the "arbitrary" epithet is meaningless -- anything seems arbitrary to the disinterested. and otherwise, everything's a prng etc.
asciilifeform: i'll bite :
asciilifeform: from whence the 16 ?
mircea_popescu: so you have even odds at increasing or decreasing.
mircea_popescu: * rnd(byte)/16 comes out even
mircea_popescu: that';s what i mean, it's really very minimalistically built for the purpose of showing a set of idiots they;re idiots.
asciilifeform: btw, lulzily, if mircea_popescu makes the prize ~11 btc, it will be moar than the eu thing
asciilifeform: (at the most recent rate)
mircea_popescu: either that or if mp waits till november...
mircea_popescu: kinda why i gave it a time lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, in a VERY fine manifestation of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667268 + "everyone in ourdemocracy is 75", i expect entirely no participation.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:48 asciilifeform: show me the 60y.o. who 'test me!1111'
mircea_popescu: much like you know, all sorts of "rng experts" not merely do not wish, but specifically wish NOT TO examine FG. andf so on.
asciilifeform: how many entries counts as 'quorum' ?
mircea_popescu: 0 useful work, +inf pointless blather.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform will have to have 4 for long enough, so it dun end too soon.
asciilifeform: also somebody gotta come up with the tourney judge proggy itself, neh
asciilifeform: ( unless mircea_popescu already has )
mircea_popescu: (that'ds how it works, once not 4 players at table one round, it ends.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i intend to open that for implementation, let people (in wot only) bid, like candi_lustt worked oput.
mircea_popescu: cost to be substracted from pool.
asciilifeform: ( and it wants 'mphash' also.. )
mircea_popescu: afaik that had a bunch of implementations already.
asciilifeform: did it ?
asciilifeform: link to 1 other than mircea_popescu's php ?
mircea_popescu: i published one, iirc ben_vulpes also did, etc
mircea_popescu: i didn't keep so close track.
asciilifeform: did he ??
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: a page of code, in any case.
asciilifeform: dun seem to be in the logs
mircea_popescu: hm. i recall somethign with it
asciilifeform: !#s MPFHF
a111: 4 results for "MPFHF", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=MPFHF
asciilifeform: !#s MPHF
a111: 5 results for "MPHF", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=MPHF
asciilifeform: ^ lol, apparently was entirely other thing, long ago
asciilifeform: incidentally, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667388 >> recall harrison, inventor of temperature-compensated chronometer, per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-10#1429335 ; in other contexts mircea_popescu does not even seem to find this kind of thing objectionable, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 16:43 mircea_popescu: much like you know, all sorts of "rng experts" not merely do not wish, but specifically wish NOT TO examine FG. andf so on.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-10 21:32 asciilifeform: was rebuffed by royal society for ~decades~ because... not in wot.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
ben_vulpes: i have an implementation
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: post?
ben_vulpes: i left off before posting for some reason that i cannot now recall
ben_vulpes: i suspect that i hadn't yet verified output against the runs that mircea_popescu posted
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't find it objectionable. it IS however disqualifying, for their claims as to the self. in other words, i don't respect them above chattels, and there's a fine reason why i'm right to not respect them above chattels : right here.
asciilifeform: they happily return same favour.
mircea_popescu: for as long as they can keep burning granpa's furniture to power the pretense machine, i suppose they can keep pretending like that matters.
asciilifeform: he had a pretty tall pile of sofas.
mircea_popescu: so he did.
mircea_popescu: and as per theresa may, running out of them won't make them stop, either!
mircea_popescu: dedicated maggots.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: while the individual operations work, it does not yield what mircea_popescu's implementation yields
mircea_popescu: iirc the problem was that my implementation was of an earlier spec.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: post yours, then reconciliate?
ben_vulpes: aye aye
ben_vulpes: gods be damned footnote plugin
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/an-implementation-of-mircea-popescus-fabulous-hash-function << CH - An implementation of Mircea Popescu's Fabulous Hash Function
asciilifeform: oh hey.
ben_vulpes wiggles eyebrows
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: bit-not is not destructive
asciilifeform: this might not be the only mistake
asciilifeform: (invert s) wants a destructive op
asciilifeform: but it ends up merely returning (bit-not element) which does nothing
ben_vulpes: oh gracious
asciilifeform: try it yourself,
asciilifeform: (let ((foo #*11101010))
asciilifeform: (format t "~A~%" (bit-not foo))
asciilifeform: (format t "~A~%" foo))
asciilifeform: again i did not even go over whole thing, this was only the 1st bit to stick out to naked eye
asciilifeform: oddly enough you knew this when writing the tests
asciilifeform: or it'd appear
asciilifeform: where you
asciilifeform: (let* ((original #*01010101)
asciilifeform: (expected #*10101010)
asciilifeform: (actual (invert original)))
asciilifeform: (assert (equal expected actual))
asciilifeform: ... etc.
ben_vulpes: tested one way, used another.
ben_vulpes: "can show presence, never absence"
ben_vulpes: ty asciilifeform plz to comment on www?
ben_vulpes: ty muchly
asciilifeform: (check your mod queue)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667282 << that somehow makes perfect sense on very many levels
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:56 asciilifeform: #1 major at umd !11 ( i shit thee not )
mircea_popescu: idle bitchez wanna tell guys what to do.
asciilifeform: in other noose, the (microscopic) ra-226 ( for MB/s 'gold standard' rng test ) came. asciilifeform was half-convinced that it'd get swallowed by the post
asciilifeform: thing is regulation-sized , but theoretically such an item oughta have been sent by fedex. but, go figure.
asciilifeform: the lead pig in which it is to spend the rest of its life, is - fortunately - also here.
mircea_popescu: good for you then lel
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2814.25, vol: 13252.18759479 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2712.6, vol: 5143.30112 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2788.5, vol: 17014.05467836 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2845.819072, vol: 13276.98150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2815.999, vol: 5301.32096462 | Volume-weighted last average: 2804.38640083
mod6: just catchin' up on ze logz
shinohai: http://archive.is/Zlp1i <<< Work for Qntra instead, where sharing screenshots of pron around the office is encouraged.
mod6: sweet!, got my touchpad working
mod6: easy asf
mod6: [this is my first gentoo desktop env.]
mod6: went together pretty easily.
shinohai: What Desktop did you use btw?
mod6: xfce for now.
mod6: probably will switch to fvwm when i get all the configs in place.
mod6: my openbsd lappy is fvwm, i love it.
mod6: i basically have no use for a "desktop environment" anyway. does ~0 for me.
shinohai: I'm still using fluxbox, use what you know I guess.
mod6: ive never used this one before... seems to "work" ok i guess.
shinohai: I had xfce on an Arch install I tried once ... was indeed ok. Much better than gnome/gdm from mah Debian days.
mod6: shinohai: werd
asciilifeform: mod6: ever tried 'ratpoison' ?
asciilifeform: and holyshit, there's a new release?!!
asciilifeform: http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/ratpoison.git/log << some of the changes are at least somewhat wtf
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71121F878BF486D8975A77F388436048DEA2FFBB1DE225C7697F2F4E37575E2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1152...9889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8F949C482D230ADA81BFECE7760FD7F88B390232D14960D68D8D21112967151F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1152...9889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E32A980A153D1BD323493B5F6A6EF42AD702773A85D9B1DDAA7F1F90C1FFEB25 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1152...9889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71121F878BF486D8975A77F388436048DEA2FFBB1DE225C7697F2F4E37575E2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1124...9927 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
mod6: sweet, ok up and running with fvwm
shinohai has determined he is too lazy for ratpoison, switches back
mod6: lol, again, never thought i'd say this, but, ratpoison looks good
shinohai: It is very nice looking and lightweight ( big plus) but gonna require a learning curve to be useful for me
mod6: i used to use one called 'ion', which had some awesome keybindings. this was suggested to me by a gentoo guy back in like 03.
mod6: but, now, find that fvwm works fine for what i want
asciilifeform: mod6: before ratpoison, i used 'flwm'
asciilifeform: !~google flwm
jhvh1: asciilifeform: flwm: <http://flwm.sourceforge.net/>; FLWM - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLWM>; Ubuntu Manpage: flwm - The Fast Light Window Manager: <http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/flwm.1.html>
trinque: heh, bringing up these old window managers reminds me of a more optimistic time in re: computing in my youth
trinque: installing slackware and so on
trinque: seemed like the open source thing might be going somewhere, back then.