Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-02-28 | 2016-03-01 →
BingoBoingo relishes in that feeing of power that follows one's presence ending a turf war.
BingoBoingo: the turf, one well lit front yard. The combatants a vocal orange neighborhood cat and a fox
BingoBoingo: I go out front to see what the fuss is and the cat shoots out of the tree and under a car while the fox shoots off into a the park
phf: BingoBoingo sets own yard on fire to settle a long running dispute between cat and fox in favor of man
BingoBoingo: Nah, just smoke a cigarette and pissed on some bushes
BingoBoingo: They gotta understand that when man can mark territory with their weight in piss it is man's world.
phf: i'm always reminded of that movie where i guy was living among wolves, every morning he'd drink a lot of coffee and make rounds
BingoBoingo: Well coffee helps when keeping up with all the rest of nature
phf: that evokes images of a decisive cup, rationed coffee as a boost for man's will in harsh conditions. most of the coffee experience i'm surrounded with is not like that at all. office workers on a litre a day, hipsters with artisanal pourovers, three jobs just to keep up crowd on a dunken donuts extra large. not much keeping up with nature
mircea_popescu: you should see the coffee here.
BingoBoingo: Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot?
mircea_popescu: nah, i drink a pot of coffee in like a month
phf: i don't mind the idea, but, if you need this much coffee, why not just take amphetamines?
BingoBoingo: phf: Because that would be bad for my sobriety
phf: i thought aa mostly object to other substances only as much as they trigger alcohol abuse. unless you have a history of mixing alcohol and speed, there shouldn't be any crossover
BingoBoingo: How would I know if I did have a history of that?
phf: some good parties you go to
phf: it was mostly a rhetorical question, i just think that once you cross certain line with a substance, perhaps it's worthwhile to try something different. but since coffee guzzling is mostly done from lack of attention, perhaps it's not a good idea
BingoBoingo: Well, supposedly coffee is good for the liver
phf: in a correlation/causation world of pop medicine here's ten things that you need to know about new use for an old drug that's all the rage
BingoBoingo: Well, the mechanics make sense
phf: so does any other arbitrary chain of biochemical events that some team somewhere decides to investigate. it's the mutual interaction of those events that makes the entire system not amenable to reasoning
phf: throw in statistical ranges and often shoddy studies and you might as well go quoting ayurvedic doctors
mircea_popescu: well nobody seriously wants to contemplate that hey, 19 haplogroups, 100+ subgroups each, subgroups of subgroups, and serious test of "is coffee good or bad" needs 1mn+ subjects
mircea_popescu is vaguely bracing himself for discovery that tobacco essential for healthy, cca 2050 or so
BingoBoingo: Well, grandpa did smoke into his late 60's to early 70's
phf: from the study of dynamic systems, "researches put more wood on kindling, create big fire. more wood is good for fire!" "researches put more wood on massive fire, fire suffocates. less wood is good for fire!"
BingoBoingo wonders what could be so harmful about drinking less coffee con a daily basis than I often did vodka
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol so apparently r/btc moderator turned out to be con man, took donations to hash, kept donations since classic doomed anyway.
BingoBoingo not surprised
BingoBoingo not sure if news
mircea_popescu: kinda so-so.
mircea_popescu: notrly. more like a logline at best.
phf: BingoBoingo: oh i wasn't saying it's harmful, i was saying that when coffee stops working, perhaps it's time to take amphetamines, since it's a cleaner and longer productive high. of course with a history of substance abuse of any kind it is perhaps not a good idea (same people who drink coffee by the litre, start eating amphetamines, etc.)
phf: but i'm going to drop the subject, i'm being tedious and i need to pass out anyway
mircea_popescu: phf amphetamines are not a good idea in any case.
BingoBoingo: Eh, coffee still works
mircea_popescu: contrary to a whole lot of gargle, the list of +ev usage is ~empty.
b6: Oh my, i have voice
mircea_popescu: so you do. who're you ?
b6: Just someone interested in bitcoins, and related interests.
b6: Found you guys in a weird way, not gunna lie.
b6: Through the most recent f2pool ddos, to be exact.
ben_vulpes: how through a ddos did you get here?
ben_vulpes: b6: ^^
mircea_popescu: how through an english did you speak that
b6: Icebreaker was claiming something about coming from La serenissima
b6: Googled that, found MP's article, googles them, found this channel
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: gutter cascadian lingo
ben_vulpes: straight from the streets yo
ben_vulpes: homie
phf: all dat dank ass portland weed
ben_vulpes: b6: what is an icebreaker?
assbot: Everett House Healing Center ... ( )
b6: The guy on BTC-T claiming he shut down f2pool this week
b6: In response to them allowing miners to use classic
mircea_popescu: and what's btc-t ?
mircea_popescu: anyway b6 make yourself a key get in teh wot.
BingoBoingo: !up eth2
eth2: ohai
BingoBoingo: hai thur
eth2: i guess you've had quite a lot of visitors today haha
eth2: them logfiles
BingoBoingo: it happens
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00057919 = 6.7765 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49305 @ 0.00058034 = 28.6137 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57850 @ 0.00058034 = 33.5727 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54078 @ 0.00058165 = 31.4545 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8622 @ 0.00058345 = 5.0305 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 698 @ 0.00261992 = 1.8287 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00058301 = 11.7768 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65016 @ 0.00058612 = 38.1072 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25283 @ 0.00057919 = 14.6437 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: 'Even without adding D-Bus to the default runlevel it often will get started by D-Bus dependent services. This should explain why D-Bus mysteriously gets started even though it has not been added formally added to a system runlevel.'
asciilifeform: (gentoo docs)
asciilifeform: and apparently emacs will no longer build without it.
assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Uninstalling dbus and *kits (to Unfacilitate Remote Seats) ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00058648 = 28.2097 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Air-Gapped Gentoo Install, Tentative ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11375 @ 0.0005892 = 6.7022 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: interesting stuff asciilifeform
punkman: "basically, Grsecurity fixes what Linus leaves open and unprotected for whichever reason in the GNU/Linux kernel, and that seems to annoy the genius very much... It's a real though subdued war out there, and Grsecurity had a moment of mild failure for a few days, exactly after a major contribution by, wait, wait!... by the Dear Leader himself..."
assbot: Udruga Croatia Fidelis ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you get him in here somehow ??
asciilifeform: 'Somebody seems to have been joking with portage, and not in a nice way (maybe they aim at hurting the feelings of some pizza delivery guy, because that's not illegal like hurting animals)... '
asciilifeform: 'Most of those are conditional dependencies (useflag ? ...), and I checked and all of those with dbus ? sys-apps/dbus) have -dbus or no dbus at all in the output of emerge -p. But if I try and check dependencies on those that do depend on dbus...: appears that if gtk+ with useflag X can't work without accessibility/at-spi2-atk ...'
asciilifeform: '... why should, say, Emacs depend on dbus? '
asciilifeform: 'Do I really have to be forced to use accessibility if I want just the gtk gui? I don't have the time needed to learn to modify ebuild, and keep a separate overlay... I want to use Gentoo, not keep building it forever. Do I really have to accomodate for remote seat to be able to use Gentoo? '
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171400 @ 0.0005796 = 99.3434 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: gold from the commentz:
asciilifeform: 'Launching Tor Browser Bundle for Linux in /tmp/tor-browser_en-US XPCOMGlueLoad error for file /tmp/tor-browser_en-US/Browser/ cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory'
asciilifeform: ^ 'tor browser' eats dbus
asciilifeform: rovis reminds me more than ANYONE of dragos ruiu.
asciilifeform: but there are really not so many folks soldiering on to keep the last usable linux quasi-alive.
asciilifeform: 'go to war with the army you have.'
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 07:22:50; ben_vulpes: phf: i humbly bring lolz:
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 20:28:39; asciilifeform: or everett's solution !
asciilifeform: << there are devil knows how many people who would be on dope if they had any way of getting to it.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 06:37:37; phf: it was mostly a rhetorical question, i just think that once you cross certain line with a substance, perhaps it's worthwhile to try something different. but since coffee guzzling is mostly done from lack of attention, perhaps it's not a good idea
asciilifeform: << does mircea_popescu remember the sleep ad libitum thread ?
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 07:13:02; mircea_popescu: contrary to a whole lot of gargle, the list of +ev usage is ~empty.
asciilifeform: yes, it is better to sleep ad libitum, and wash yourself in the morning with fresh virgin tears and panda milk.
asciilifeform: than to take dope.
asciilifeform: and works best on a dirigible, also.
asciilifeform: caffeine etc. users are not typically faced with a mircea_popescutronic choice of 'should i dope or should i sleep how much i want and bathe in virgin tears.' more often, it is a 'i WILL get 4 hrs. of sleep and there is nothing to be done about it. will it be 4 hr and then i fall asleep at my desk and get sacked or 4 hr of being reasonably awake.'
asciilifeform: *4 hr and
assbot: Logged on 25-08-2014 03:08:03; asciilifeform: busy as a bee << funny that they show an idiot sow scrubbing, and not, e.g, paul erdos crapping out theorems
trinque: wtf happened to freenode this weekend?
trinque: deedbot- was connecting to successfully, then never appearing here.
trinque: switched to the rotation, joins.
trinque: << "Making freenode great again..." lolwut
assbot: freenode - supporting free and open source communities since 1998! ... ( )
PeterL: trinque: I wonder if we ever get gossipd to replace freenode, will we still have these sorts of connection problems?
mircea_popescu: not globally.
mircea_popescu: << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 14:36:29; trinque: << "Making freenode great again..." lolwut
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, water infrastructure has decayed to the point nobody involved EVNE KNOWS you can't drink from lake then switch to river
mircea_popescu: and new york has been failing to maintain it's nuclear power plants.
mircea_popescu: think about it - by the time a nuclear plant starts crying out for lack of maintenance, how badly maintained was everything else ?
mircea_popescu: and for how long ?
PeterL: It wasn't clear in the story, is the nuclear problem in New York leaking into their water system and poisoning everybody?
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:31:04; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you get him in here somehow ??
mircea_popescu: PeterL no, the water thing is re michigan.
PeterL: yeah, I know about MI water, but NY is leaking into their river, are they taking river water into their drinking water?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla jurov either of you doing on the side the gfs of any croatian nazi leader doods ? that might know this guy ? lol.
mircea_popescu: PeterL you are aware NOBODY KNOWS what ny water does, not anymore. shit in there that hasn't been touched in 50+ years.
jurov: doing what?
mircea_popescu: it's "unmaintainable" ie, unmaintained. once it goes, it goes. start trucking water bottles for 5mn people.
mircea_popescu: jurov "doing on the side" means, fucking, as an extra, other than current relationship.
jurov: there's a nzi leader in slovakia but im not doing his bfs
PeterL: I guess my question is: where does NY city pull it's drinking water from? Is it at all connected to the Hudson River?
mircea_popescu: i do not believe anyone alive today can answer this question cogently.
PeterL: millions of people live in new york, and they all just assume somebody else is keeping their stuff running for them
PeterL: world would be better off if they all get sick and die
mircea_popescu: << accessibility , for the record, is another dns/ntp/font bs.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:35:07; asciilifeform: 'Do I really have to be forced to use accessibility if I want just the gtk gui? I don't have the time needed to learn to modify ebuild, and keep a separate overlay... I want to use Gentoo, not keep building it forever. Do I really have to accomodate for remote seat to be able to use Gentoo? '
thestringpuller: PeterL: prob why they used to make a lot of escape from new york movies.
mircea_popescu: PeterL no argument there.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:36:35; asciilifeform: ^ 'tor browser' eats dbus
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:45:59; asciilifeform: yes, it is better to sleep ad libitum, and wash yourself in the morning with fresh virgin tears and panda milk.
thestringpuller: 5k more blocks on node
mircea_popescu: << they have to put in some emergency patches once people here have started blocking dns autoresolution.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 14:35:18; trinque: deedbot- was connecting to successfully, then never appearing here.
mircea_popescu: sorry, should have announced trilema article in advance for cia/nsa/blablabla.
mircea_popescu: i must have misplaced my copy of the agreement.
PeterL: in other news, my trb node (syncing since January) is now up to July 2014
deedbot-: [serialized delusions] Embedded Common Lisp for Eulora -
jurov: ;;later tell fghj ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election -
phf: i think emacs has dbus support to do fluff like message notification, last time i built it on linux it built without dbus just fine, but i prefer xlib/athena widgets (i know ascii hates them), since i basically disable menu/scrollbar/etc. not sure if maybe gtk widgets now have dbus hardwired
phf: of course fact that emacs supports dbus but not a generic ffi goes back to thread about rms and wreckers
asciilifeform: not simply 'supports'.
asciilifeform: pulls in.
asciilifeform: i am seriously fucking pissed
asciilifeform: because, among other things, i mistakenly blamed openbsd for this.
phf: you mean in gentoo parlance? an emacs ebuild doesn't respect -dbus flag, and pulls it unconditionally?
assbot: bug#12112: 24.1.50; Starting emacs without dbus ... ( )
assbot: “Has Linux lost its way?” comments prompt a Debian developer to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years | The Changelog ... ( )
asciilifeform: well, oldz
asciilifeform: or nm, i think this is in the logz.
assbot: Debian User Forums • View topic - Grsecurity/Pax installation on Debian GNU/Linux ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ moar rovis
asciilifeform: ;;google "emacs without dbus"
gribble: Re: Emacs insists on starting dbus? - Lists - GNU: <>; Re: Emacs insists on starting dbus? - Lists - GNU: <>; bug#12112: 24.1.50; Starting emacs without dbus - Lists - GNU: <>
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election -
phf: tuomo valkonen has been ranting about that stuff back in 2005 or so
phf: "why is this freedesktop shit being compiled in with no way of disabling it"
phf: his (and mine) pet peve at the time was mandatory freetype (i think that linux's dodgy hinting and antialiasing are worse then running it aliased and at the time i wanted bitmap fonts everywhere)
phf: not to mention that freetype pulls in the whole dodgy freedesktop stack. why do i need 5 different libraries to support arabic ligatures?
mircea_popescu: you don't understand universalism.
mircea_popescu: the reasoning goes, that if arabs have no way of knowing they're arabs, such as for instance if the use of THEIR script happens transparently everywhere, then they won't be able to maintain a sense of nationality and consequently jena bush's tush will remain unmolested.
assbot: Barney - I Love You (Extended Play 15 times back-to-back!!) - YouTube ... ( )
phf: ^
mircea_popescu: this of course means you must support arabic ligature in your kkkapp made specifically to scrawl white supremacist nonsense on virtual toilets in gta4.
mircea_popescu: but it also means you needn't worry about it - as a consumer, it'll just be done for you, automagically!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45397 @ 0.00059164 = 26.8587 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: and to take the discussion up a coupla levels of abstraction : this is not a technical problem in any sense. in fact, the only thing that a classification of problems into technical and otherwise says is that ~the classifier~ is broken in the head.
mircea_popescu: or if you prefer, poorly socialised. still entertains the delusion that he'll make a nice woman out of marble and invent a lock that'll keep rats out of his granary.
mircea_popescu: !up deupork
asciilifeform: so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.
mircea_popescu: all he does is prepare conference slides. for 20+ yearsn ow
asciilifeform: proving that it is eminently possible to be eaten alive by fungus ~without~ working directly for usg.
asciilifeform: fungus is available to all.
mircea_popescu: ie, old age ?
asciilifeform: not only.
asciilifeform: (rms was, what, 40, 20 yrs ago ?)
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that he didn't really psychologically weather the hurd thing.
mircea_popescu: what thng again ?
asciilifeform: he had a thing that was supposed to be what linux was
asciilifeform: called gnu hurd
asciilifeform: for various reasons, rms et al were unable to produce a usable kernel.
asciilifeform: then linus appeared, and did
asciilifeform: and 'stole' the gnu userland, to go with it
mircea_popescu: various reasons = being flaming imbeciles with no inclination towards work
mircea_popescu: he basically saw himself as a sort of jimbo wales. except forgot the part where tardpedia can contain anything, epistula non erubiscit, but the compiler doth complain.
asciilifeform: as i recall, the original plan was to use some bsd variant
mircea_popescu: and if a community vote is held to silence the complaints for racist and whatrever,
asciilifeform: and rms wrote, later, that not doing this was a catastrophic mistake
mircea_popescu: the system just hangs.
asciilifeform: instead, he went with 'mach', which was owned by - iirc - CMU, and stuck in legal limbo
asciilifeform: and while the latter hashed out, the project withered.
asciilifeform: so no, this was not a pediwikian sort of catastrophe, but worse.
mircea_popescu: environment not yet ripe for "fuck you - breaking the law by license!" alexandrine solution
mircea_popescu: it being the 80s and shit.
asciilifeform: it was the '80s, and the man was 'dependently wealthy.'
asciilifeform: (rms won some sort of prize for gcc, but it was only enough for a few yrs, apparently, and parasites helped to eat it faster)
asciilifeform: i do not know where it went, but afaik he still lives in a repurposed closet at mit.
mircea_popescu: "being flaming imbeciles with no inclination towards work".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see the 'no inclination towards work' thing
asciilifeform: rms was working on catastrophically broken priors, but worked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60450 @ 0.00059164 = 35.7646 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: interesting, from punkman's link:
asciilifeform: 'Even when the SC is asked to decide something, they never go to RMS when they can help it, because he's so unaware of modern real-world technical issues and the bigger picture. It's far, far better to continue postponing a question than to ask it, when RMS is involved, because he will make a snap decision based on his own bizarre technical ideas, and then never change his mind in time for th
asciilifeform: He can be convinced. Eventually. It took the SC over a year to explain and demonstrate that Java bytecode could not easily be used to subvert the GPL, therefore permitting GCJ to be checked in to the official repository was okay. I'm sure that someday we'll be using C++ in core code. Just not anytime soon.'
asciilifeform: e new decision to be worth anything.
asciilifeform: ^ rms when seen from the gnome pit
asciilifeform: stung from all sides by vermin who want him to 'get with the times', is it any wonder rms turned to stone ?
asciilifeform: 'real-world technical issues and the bigger picture.'
asciilifeform: 'his own bizarre technical ideas'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does a man work who can't support himself ?
assbot: Richard Stallman ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how does prisoner in butugychag work ?
mircea_popescu: masturbation is not work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform with the axe.
asciilifeform: it is when you're masturbating ~someone else~
asciilifeform: at gunpoint
assbot: Part I. Philosopher ... ( )
punkman: "Here at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, he has made his home - literally, sleeping for 13 years on a narrow cot in a cubbyhole that resembles a nest, littered with candy wrappers, food containers, papers and magazines. Garbage tumbles off every surface, piles up in corners, allowing only a narrow track through which to navigate a life."
mircea_popescu: also, the proper quote is "modern real-world technical issues and the bigger picture". gotta get that MODERN in there, it is a key element of the belief system of idiots that the problems they encounter are novel.
asciilifeform: attempt of hostile takeover of glib << l0l drepper gold
assbot: Part IV. Stallman as a Prophet ... ( )
asciilifeform: pretty sure this was in the logz at some point
mircea_popescu: wtf is with all these urls with spaces in them
asciilifeform: 'Stallman recently tried what I would call a hostile takeover of the glibc development. He tried to conspire behind my back and persuade the other main developers to take control so that in the end he is in control and can dictate whatever pleases him. This attempt failed ... '
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this was in the log.
asciilifeform: yeah iirc.
phf: is that drepper quote?
phf: back against the wall
mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculousness of form aside, i can readily see the twin point that rms is catastrophically blind and strategically worthless.
mircea_popescu: enough illustration - he went to fucking glbse conference.
trinque: rms strikes me as a few rounds of imitation back from poettering and that ethereum kid
mircea_popescu: yes srsly.
asciilifeform: glbse?!
mircea_popescu: !s from:nefario stallman
assbot: 0 results for 'from:nefario stallman' :
asciilifeform: 'In 1990, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation granted Stallman a MacArthur fellowship. The grant, a $240,000 which is more then $500K in 2000 dollars provided Stallman with a source of income and health insurance for five years. That made it less necessary to do consulting work to support himself. Although RMS now can devote more time to the writing GNU software, but actually h
trinque: playing the role of slovenly hacker guy who chews his toenails
asciilifeform: e was almost 40 and his best years as a programmer were in the past. Programming is a young men game and such grants usually are a clear signs of a starting decay.
asciilifeform: 'Unpleasant surprises followed. As leader of the GNU Project, Stallman experienced the first fork of Emacs in 1991. As we will see below by 1993, the GNU Project's completely lost the initiative due to an inability to deliver a working POSIX kernel. In March, 1993, a Wired magazine article by Simson Garfinkel described the GNU Project as "bogged down". GCC fork occurred a several years late
asciilifeform: r (1997) and was the last straw... '
trinque: same as any other chief scientist or wannabe religious nut leader
asciilifeform: nobody lives forever.
asciilifeform: some folks just spend longer time walking around as a zombie before burial, than others.
mircea_popescu: << flavour of history, sep 2013.
asciilifeform: so we're taking nefario's word for it ?
mircea_popescu: the guy was actually there.
assbot: Soulja Boy dance, MIT style - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: to put this in proper perspective : "genjix" is the garbage-eating, underage-cousin-pimping, imbecile on a stick amir taaki.
mircea_popescu: stallman has reduced himself to the position where street urchins are pulling the "i'm paying you, stand up to attention" trick on him
mircea_popescu: in 2013.
kakobrekla: afaik it wasnt 'glbse conference' per se, however nefario had a talk there as well as stallman. / /
assbot: Speakers - Bitcoin Conference London 15-16 September 2012 ... ( )
assbot: Bitcoin 2012 London: Richard Stallman - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: Nefario - Bitcoin capital markets - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and i do mean street urchins quite literally, the sort of mostly-nude eastern flesh that'd follow europeans begging for candy, either as a freebie or in trade for butthole.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla tell you what, if maddof has a talk there as well as obama, it'll be the ponzi conference.
asciilifeform: public toilet is, well, public
mircea_popescu: not how this works.
mircea_popescu: you have to BUY A LICENSE to run a public house and be protected by this "publichouse" theory.
mircea_popescu: and i sold them no such license.
asciilifeform: rms, as i understand, goes to all kinds of crud ('phreeee palestine!1111') to play at relevancy
asciilifeform: *relevance
phf: well, it's an opportunity for him to get his talking points in
asciilifeform: some intern, likely, told him a five minute spiel re: bitcoin
mircea_popescu: well, it's an opportunity for him to make nice for 500 bux.
asciilifeform: and he looked up 'bitcoin conference' and went.
mircea_popescu: but, back to the original point : catastrophic blindness and strategic worthlessness. the embodiment thereof, this is it.
kakobrekla: rms was on nefarios conference as much as nefario was on rms conference
asciilifeform: but i suspect that mircea_popescu is operating on the 'spoon of shit in barrel of wine' theorem
asciilifeform: but did rms even know that he was bathing in shit ?
kakobrekla: if i had to guess mps argument here; 'shit doesnt know/care about itself bathing in shit, only actual person does'
mircea_popescu: well no, actually, it's moreover related to
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2016 14:55:06; mircea_popescu: everything is on the exam. including stuff from the future.
mircea_popescu: oh, he "didn't know" what was in front of him ? that's the definition of blindness. and he didn't know WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ?
mircea_popescu: well wtf, i get the same results from my dog. i don't make the dog a strategist. FOR THIS REASON.
mircea_popescu: if dog could see future, dog would also be general.
asciilifeform: actually rms is the most consistently and accurately long-term doom prophet i'm personally aware of.
asciilifeform: beats the shit out of everyone else.
mircea_popescu: prophets are not strategists.
mircea_popescu: they're a sort of singers.
asciilifeform: ~accurate~ prophet.
mircea_popescu: ~good~ singers.
kakobrekla: yeah, his talks have been a carbon copy for a very long time on all the confs.
asciilifeform: so what's the operative difference ?
mircea_popescu: between what and what!
asciilifeform: prophet / strategist
asciilifeform: is it that the latter tells you what to do ?
mircea_popescu: listen to prophet, be entertained ; follow strategist, survive.
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: but i was asking, what they do differently.
mircea_popescu: because why, anything can be expressed in pascal ?
asciilifeform: remember, i don't deal in inexpressables. or i'd be hanging at the dirigible club with mircea_popescu, and not here in this ditch
asciilifeform: i'm stuck with expressable.
mircea_popescu: you'll have to one day tell me what's the "operative difference" between peach and pear, but not in the sense of "one has a wooden pit". instead, in the sense of "what do the trees do differently"
mircea_popescu: and i presume "everything" doesn't suit you.
asciilifeform: i can arrange this but the answer will be a few MB long.
asciilifeform: but certainly not inexpressable.
mircea_popescu: don't flatter yourself. you can't arrange this, and the answer would provably be > petabytes long.
asciilifeform: MB if we get to #include from the genus.
mircea_popescu: but you UNDERSTAND the meta point, which makes you lie to yourself about your capacities, because you really really want things to be a certain way.
asciilifeform: otherwise mircea_popescu has it.
mircea_popescu: so basically this discussion just became 'explain this to me, and if you do i'll just pretend the explanation doesn't exist"
asciilifeform: actually i have a suitably grim picture of the capacities.
asciilifeform: having actually been tasked with attempting something quite like the peach/pear before.
mircea_popescu: note in any case that "operative" in that context specifically seeks "wooden pit" type answers.
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu misunderstood, i have no intention of pretending that the inexpressable distinction does not exist. merely stating that i am not equipped to deal in it.
mircea_popescu: and who is.
asciilifeform: possibly mircea_popescu ?
asciilifeform: whose profession it is.
mircea_popescu: sadly, nope.
asciilifeform: ( strategist )
mircea_popescu: o, it is ? maybe when i'm having a good day.
phf: goes back to cause/purpose thing
mircea_popescu: now, granted, in re the trees, while it stands that you can't do it, i suspect you're right in suspecting it CAN be done.
mircea_popescu: which makes it perhaps a substantially different bojum.
asciilifeform: i can't personally, with own hands, put a satellite in orbit, either.
mircea_popescu: but i know people who put satellites in orbit ; i know no one who made the answer to the tree question.
mircea_popescu: "step towards" is you know... another ledge.
asciilifeform: the tree question is approx. where rocketry was in 1930.
mircea_popescu: note that cold fusion has been approx where rocketry was in 1930 for a good century now.
asciilifeform: it was where transmutation was in 1500.
mircea_popescu: what's the operative difference ?
mircea_popescu: they're both where virgin teen is on prom night. is it going to be a good experience/marriage/life ? who knows ?
mircea_popescu: who even cares ? take it off!
asciilifeform: the difference between 'needs moar engineering' and charlatanry that can absorb $trillion with not a blip of result ?
mircea_popescu: note that mom and dad of virgin teen can liberally hold either of these views, interchangeably.
asciilifeform: also fusion is very much the wrong term.
asciilifeform: you can go and fuse in your kitchen right now.
asciilifeform: (see, e.g., farnsworth's device)
asciilifeform: the boojum is ~ +EV fusion ~.
mircea_popescu: i think that's what the "cold" part is trying to suggest.
mircea_popescu: otherwise... all sorts of "more expensive than it's worth" methods are known
asciilifeform: you can also cold fuse right now.
asciilifeform: whack palladium deuteride with hammer.
mircea_popescu: in a different take of "cold".
mircea_popescu: ie, not high temperature, cold. but the meaning contemplated in the expression is, i suspect, quite, "+ev, ie cold"
mircea_popescu: as in cold ownage.
asciilifeform: well there are two schools of fusion crackpottery, the 'hot' (tokamak, but really is just refinement of hbomb codes) and 'cold'.
asciilifeform: both have delusions of '+ev any day now'.
mircea_popescu: i like the laser pumping people.
mircea_popescu: lasers are fun.
asciilifeform: the 'hot' folks managed to strangle the 'cold' for the usg pig trough fight, yes.
asciilifeform: the laser thing is really the quest for the 'clean thermonuke' in disguise.
asciilifeform: (i.e. thermonuke that doesn't require a fissile initiator, ergo no need for refining U)
asciilifeform: usg has an interesting relationship with the thing
asciilifeform: on one hand, it is the last thing a lizard wants to see appear.
asciilifeform: anywhere.
asciilifeform: on other hand, nobody can resist asking the question.
mircea_popescu: "ideally, it would want it not to exist ; but if it must exist, it wants to be the only one to ever have it"
mircea_popescu: in a very "sf" take of the thing - actually workable, and perhaps miniaturizable laser-initiated compression would put the nuclear issue on about the same terms the war on drugs finds itself.
mircea_popescu: ie, anyoen can make drugs and you won't be able to detect them and fuck you.
mircea_popescu: "here's where washington used to be, that crater to the left. oh, you never saw that 100cc of methane gas, did oyu ? awww!"
asciilifeform: and it won't cost much, either.
mircea_popescu: shoulda looked for methane instead of 2,3-blablatronium.
asciilifeform: quite possibly everything else that usg does is preparation for this exam.
mircea_popescu: unlike the qc thing, i can't even say this is not in the cards.
asciilifeform: since '53 or whenever ulam realized that you don't actually need the fissile firecracker.
mircea_popescu: besides. gotta explain all the other lifeless planets out there ~somehow~.
asciilifeform: i can see hitler and dulles nodding to one another, 'yeah it'll be better to create a planet of castrated zombies'
mircea_popescu: i don't see that better.
asciilifeform: ~they~ see it.
mircea_popescu: as the romanian expression goes, "apai atunci nu-i prea vad in clar"
asciilifeform: i'll take the lifeless crater, plox.
mircea_popescu: literally, "thus therefore, i don't see them to clearly", but that "not see clearly" really means, "it won't end up well for them". sort-of like prophet not seeing your future too clearly.
mircea_popescu: "in clar" also denotes plaintext, ie, immediately accessible. no need to explain and mediate their carcass into being, as it were.
asciilifeform: yudkowsky, of all people, wrote some story where there was a planet where they learned to make fusion device with ancient greek level tech. and the survivers evolved. into something strange.
asciilifeform: (into some monstrously happy/dopy/cooperative beast)
asciilifeform: at any rate, even orwell had his fingers on it
asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb
assbot: 16 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' :
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 07:02:37; asciilifeform: 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to p
mircea_popescu: fortunately, it is not MERELY the atomic bomb that is rare and costly and as difficult to produce as a battleship.
mircea_popescu: ~CARING~ about the otherwise irrelevant item is ALSO rare and costly and difficult to produce. moreso than a battleship.
mircea_popescu: hence why the meanwhile-barbarianized new yorkers couldn't care less if the nuke plant blows.
mircea_popescu: so what if it does ? more varied tail for the lot of them!
asciilifeform: phun phakt, seems like 'genkernel' won't allow you to disable flag SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYRING .
assbot: Analysis and Exploitation of a Linux Kernel Vulnerability (CVE-2016-0728) | Perception Point ... ( )
mircea_popescu: but at any rate, notice how the "worldwide peace" movement seamlessly morphed into the "antiatomic movement" seamlessly morphed into the "ecology" movement.
mircea_popescu: and recall tlp's wunderwaffenwords,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was a kgb golem, and this is amply documented.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker, there's some ad on his page that blocks the loading.
asciilifeform: l0l i thought you had his complete worx cached.
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: You Are The 98% ... ( )
phf: i think the "advanced user" workflow is to pick up genkernel config, menuconfig it, put the config back into genkernel, recompile
asciilifeform: phf: well yes, but the result is usually that the compile barfs
phf: in before asciilifeform finally goes all LFS
phf: ah
phf: linux from scratch
asciilifeform: that'd be merely gentoo without portage.
asciilifeform: wtf is the point.
trinque: decent as a learning tool and not much else.
trinque did it once
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to understand why the enemy is not particularly scared of trb.
asciilifeform: we don't actually have a kernel that isn't fully, certifiably porous.
asciilifeform: the mice have been in the granary for... 20 yrs ?
asciilifeform: and there is scarcely any grain at all to be found there.
asciilifeform: only mouse shit.
asciilifeform: and we (or at least i) are still baking bread from it.
asciilifeform: because there is not another granary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86051 @ 0.00058627 = 50.4491 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Openbsd Openbsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed reports ... ( )
assbot: Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed reports ... ( )
trinque: yes, I understand I just said "this food has less shit in it!"
trinque: worth mentioning too that one's referring to an entire *usable* operating system and the other to only a kernel
trinque: I personally would far sooner deal with a shitty package management system than a swiss cheese kernel
trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux.
trinque: tbh bitching about the openbsd ports tree is a matter of having missed the point; pester the maintainer or become him if you want something changed.
asciilifeform: trinque: 'want something changed' is not the right description for granary full of mouse shit.
trinque: actually most of the remote code execution exploits in recent OpenBSD were the fault of X
asciilifeform: kernel exploit is not usually a remote but more privesc thing, anyway
trinque: it seems to have done pretty well across the board
trinque: whether that's due to it being a less prevalent target, I do not know.
asciilifeform: i have a brick here that also did pretty well.
asciilifeform: no remote exploits for it !1111
trinque: heh, I'll have to try running my emacs env on your brick sometime
asciilifeform: anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ?
trinque: !s from:phf openbsd
assbot: 20 results for 'from:phf openbsd' :
asciilifeform: i don't recall a ~rotor~ trb working there.
asciilifeform: phf, is there one ?
trinque: it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it?
trinque: in openbsd's case the operating system's version number refers to an entire base system
trinque: could just target one of those and results should be the same on same arch
asciilifeform: buildroot, theoretically, ought to work on bsd.
asciilifeform: (recall, we're not building a kernel with it, only the toolchain)
trinque: lemme see what it does and I'll paste; I've done it before and it barfed.
asciilifeform: understand why i went with buildroot.
asciilifeform: we need a thing that will 1) let us 'vendor' gcc and the WHOLE toolchain
asciilifeform: 2) GUARANTEE that a build pulls in NOTHING from outside.
trinque: yep, sensible
asciilifeform: there may be other ways to achieve this, e.g., a bsd 'jail'
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 17.40000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00059163 = 29.4632 BTC [+] {2}
phf: asciilifeform: there's no rotor
phf: i think i wanted to figure out how to package openssl/db/boost as buildroot native packages, rather then doing adhoc, which is a task in itself
phf: once i do can probably produce buildroot for mac os x too
phf: i'm though confused, i thought buildroot is explicitly a cross-compilation mechanism?
phf: "Buildroot is a tool that simplifies and automates the process of building a complete Linux system for an embedded system, using cross-compilation.
phf: In order to achieve this, Buildroot is able to generate a cross-compilation toolchain, a root filesystem, a Linux kernel image and a bootloader for your target."
ben_vulpes: > verify with text message (most secure)
ben_vulpes: mhm sure
ben_vulpes: << this girl i'm rather fond of convinced me that it wasn't a half-bad way to spend thirty years while my brain rots building apps for various usg tentacles.
assbot: Logged on 27-02-2016 20:00:05; asciilifeform: in this particular case, why offspring
ben_vulpes: sure as hell beats drinking the horror at my own existence away
ben_vulpes: << mount her on a bicycle, pilfer a bottle from the office, mash around the city on bikes, break onto the in-decomissionment sellwood bridge and fuck on it? iono man what does one do with random girls anyways
assbot: Logged on 25-02-2016 18:22:46; pete_dushenski: << inquiring minds would like to know what you'd have done with her if you caught her !
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 21:41:44; phf: i'm though confused, i thought buildroot is explicitly a cross-compilation mechanism?
phf: oh so it's not even crosscompile?
asciilifeform: well we cross-compile.
asciilifeform: from derplinux to ideallinux.
phf: :)
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit.
asciilifeform: and, originally, i picked up buildroot to make pogotron.
thestringpuller: everytime I see pogo reference I think of butt plug
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so. << It's a Trump slogan, that's why it went meme
asciilifeform: hay mas futuro!
BingoBoingo: <trinque> it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it? << Last week Openbsd killed linux_compat on i386 which is the last platform they supported it on
phf: oh ffs
phf: i was hoping to get intellij idea running on that
assbot: Linux Emulation goes to the great bitbucket of the sky ... ( )
asciilifeform: phf: l0l! are you slaving in a java mine ?!
asciilifeform used 'idea' as a student, many years ago.
phf: nah, actually use it for day to day development
asciilifeform: how is that not slaving in a java mine ?
phf: err, i mean, python mostly
asciilifeform: or does idea do other langs now
phf: it does, and it has very elaborate python plugin (can be had separately as "pycharm")
jurov: they have a sibling of idea named pycharm
jurov: i use, too
phf: it does things for you, autoimports, large scale refactoring, working jump to/from functionality
phf: it's got some other niceties, like a db integration, where it introspects into the scheme and then does static analysis on your sql code, including sql code that's inline somewhere in python
phf: *schema
asciilifeform: this is spiffy, but closed source crud belongs in a specially-designated leprosorium (malware box, or at least, if you like living dangerously, a vm) rather than on naked civilian box !
phf: i don't know what constitutes naked civilian box
asciilifeform: depends.
asciilifeform: 'don't shit in the kitchen' is valid, despite different folks having different kinds of kitchen
asciilifeform: i.e. places where definitionally one ought not shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4882 @ 0.00058647 = 2.8631 BTC [+]
jurov: that it's good thing to dream about :)
ben_vulpes shits in sink, eats from toilet bowl, never knew to do anything else before 2013
ben_vulpes: AM PASHTUN
jurov: As long as you use the proper hand for each.
ben_vulpes: american pashtun!
ben_vulpes: i have tp ffs jurov
ben_vulpes: sheesh this is like when i moved to new york and people were astonished to learn that there's electricity west of the rockies
deedbot-: [Ossasepia] Coordinate Eulometry (or Tomb of the Dead Mollusc) -
phf: toilet paper is barbaric
ben_vulpes: at mp's prompting i added a plastic handheld thing to the shower
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: isn't that for old people?
deedbot-: [Qntra] Google At Fault In Motor Vehicle Collision -
phf: asciilifeform: i guess i can't seem to find a baseline that doesn't suck in all kinds of obvious and non-obvious ways. for all practical purposes i operate out of a semipublic terminal that i don't own. various attempts to establish non-superficial ownership were unsuccessful for reasons amply discussed here
phf: i found my way here to begin with because i was following your loperos project and your conclusions were then correct, only to be re-confirmed as part of b-a research
asciilifeform: phf: iirc several people did
asciilifeform: (adlai ?)
phf: probably all the common lispers
asciilifeform: not all, ben_vulpes was here before me.
phf: ah, i think that's from before i was paying close attention to logs
phf: but anyway, chuck moore probably has clean kitchen and terry davis :p
asciilifeform: iirc he was named benkay in those days.
phf: i think he renamed himself during my 6 months
phf: my current goal is to have better compartmentalization, like have a gaming machine (i.e. libretto running dos, i've been unwinding with ~~'95 games), a work machine (i.e. a thing that can run intellij and which is compromised for all the practical purposes) and a b-a machine whatever that evolves into, because i don't think the future of a computer as a progrock moog station is panning out
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> not all, ben_vulpes was here before me. << iirc benkay you and myself were part of the 2013 #b-a cohort
phf: that must be right because that's when asciilifeform published the mpex review, so i must've been reading mp since then, but ben_vulpes renamed himself quite recently
phf: sometime summer last year
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00058663 = 21.8813 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00058156 = 20.7908 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.0005812 = 19.5864 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22050 @ 0.00058874 = 12.9817 BTC [+] {4}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Report -
deedbot-: rejected: 1
deedbot-: accepted: 1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00059143 = 20.8775 BTC [+]
jurov: lol i measure my coffee consumption by "does the shit smell like coffee? if not, all ok"
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 06:24:02; BingoBoingo: Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot?
jurov: but i started to mix it with cereal/chicory coffee to make it easy on stomach
BingoBoingo: Ah, a couple days after I open a can I'll start adding cold milk to it when I pour for the same reason
BingoBoingo: I don't really have chicory around this time of year
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32342 @ 0.0005812 = 18.7972 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28002 @ 0.0005812 = 16.2748 BTC [-] {2}
deedbot-: [Trilema] What MP wants MP gets, the funarg problem and other Mecano considerations -
ben_vulpes: looks like i changed nicks 7/29/2014
mircea_popescu: << no, it's an argument in flavor of linux.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 19:42:04; trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40036 @ 0.00058011 = 23.2253 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: what flavor of linux though?
mircea_popescu: nono, in flavor of linux. like, in the style of bosch.
mircea_popescu: << i vaguely recall BingoBoingo sort-of trying
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 20:19:25; asciilifeform: anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ?
BingoBoingo: I have a partially trb-icized 7 series in the name of implementation pluralism. No earthly idea what all changes happened.
mircea_popescu: on bsd ?
asciilifeform: phf had stator on bsd.
asciilifeform: but no one, to date - rotor.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00057892 = 11.0574 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: now rotor is not ~quite~ as necessary on bsd, because drepper is absent there. BUT we still need deterministic nailed-down toolchain, esp. for when we finally do the deterministic binary thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00058768 = 23.0371 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: besides, as per satoshi's argument ("no, don't bring it on"), might not be the smartest thing in the world to give drepper incentive to exist on bsd anyway
asciilifeform: the idea is to categorically cut off the very possibility of drepper existing.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: On OpenBSD. It's the one I chopped together mostly while drunk and still works.
BingoBoingo: Dropped in low-s a month or two (mebbe 3) before trb, has -minrelaytx flag, from trb orphanage slaughters and malleus were definitely implemented. Other things but would take reading to recall them.
ben_vulpes: hue, ether's hardforking already?
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.50000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election -
BingoBoingo: oh? did they drop the old bottle with the precipitated peroxides already?
assbot: EIPs/eip-2.mediawiki at master · ethereum/EIPs · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 23:13:58; *: ben_vulpes shits in sink, eats from toilet bowl, never knew to do anything else before 2013
assbot: [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( )
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Seriously, they heated their Ether up into a gas?! No wonder it is already hardforking everywhere.
ben_vulpes: tastes great with alf_dog
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10817 @ 0.00057878 = 6.2607 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35583 @ 0.00057749 = 20.5488 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00058798 = 31.0747 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: why are all of the self-hosted rss readers written in php
ben_vulpes: i found one in rubby
fluffypony: ben_vulpes: because PHP is secure and easy to use
fluffypony: everything should just be written in PHP
fluffypony: Bitcoin should switch to the Timekoin codebase
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26450 @ 0.00059143 = 15.6433 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: gold, fluffypony
fluffypony: btw did anyone else notice that RealSolid is back?
assbot: MicroCash. Now in Alpha 2 release. ... ( )
ben_vulpes: > juices flowing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25502 @ 0.00058137 = 14.8261 BTC [-] {2}
mats: hot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28185 @ 0.00058138 = 16.3862 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 05:12:12; phf: ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd.
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 05:13:29; phf: the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction
phf: now that there was a suggestion of treating specific openbsd version as baseline, i think problem was that i built in on one openbsd and tried running on another
phf: node was running fine inside a virtualbox openbsd though, same one that i built it on.
asciilifeform: wai wut, openbsd has no stable abi at all ?!!!
phf: hehehe
mircea_popescu: fluffypony> everything should just be written in PHP << word.
phf: asciilifeform: they take a "we'll make sure to break abi, rebuild from source every time" position
mircea_popescu: not even sure this is wrong.
asciilifeform: this is only a good thing in the sense that spraying ddt in every room of your house is.
asciilifeform: yes, no mosquitoes.
asciilifeform: but this is simply yet another way for mosquitoes to win.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: in other news, til i learned that the criteria for "fridge big enough" is : if one discrete item won't fit, push. if it now fits, fridge is big enough. if it still won't fit, "wtf is with these tiny-ass euro style fridges already!!1"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15170 @ 0.00058571 = 8.8852 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was tempted throughout eulora lifetime to go "fu, no binaries, compile, always". and i can still contemplate why this would be the case with trb.
mircea_popescu: heck, isn't the whole v system technically speaking just this ?
asciilifeform: sure is.
mircea_popescu: so then.... still not sure this is wrong.
mircea_popescu: ddt persuasiveness notwithstanding.
asciilifeform: it isn't ~wrong~, merely annoying.
mircea_popescu: the brothel is also "just another way for housewife to win", at least according to her.
asciilifeform: gotta decide how much ddt you want to spray in your living room.
asciilifeform: this is in some ways a personal choice.
phf: i thought whole exercise is to produce byte to byte equivalent binaries, as another step in verification process. "sealed vpatches -> press -> binary -> shasum"
mircea_popescu: where this comparison breaks down is that your biology is fundamentally cunt-based and perl-run. you necessarily respirate the ddt. meanwhile, your mental life is supposed to be hermetic and under your control. you shouldn't fucking respirate the environment wtf.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah.
asciilifeform: (the ultimate thermonuclear version of this is to ~randomly generate~ a cpu arch, instantiate on an fpga ~and generate a compiler~, and compile for THAT! and i was very sad as a student to discover that one cristina cifuentes invented this long before i did)
mircea_popescu: and i appreciate your "is to produce" construction :)
mircea_popescu: for they not blessed with knowledge of actual languages, there's significant aspectual difference between "is to produce" which talks of the state, like to be, and "produces", which talks of movement.
asciilifeform: and wow, that name was buried in the nethermost depths of my skull before this convo.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform women in tech.
asciilifeform: i have nfi if it even was an actual woman.
asciilifeform: was just a name.
mircea_popescu: yeah is woman, worked for oracle.
mircea_popescu: you mean her, no ?
asciilifeform: probably
mircea_popescu: reverse compilation techniques etc
asciilifeform: ^ thesis
asciilifeform: had an almost-useful x86 decompiler before 'hexray'.
asciilifeform: first, afaik.
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asciilifeform: now i gotta ask, how does mircea_popescu know that it was 'actual woman'
asciilifeform: met in the flesh ?
asciilifeform: mega-muppet-warz
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ben_vulpes: the only line i have for coworkers and plebs on this topic is "you haven't thought for half a second why the /nsa/ didn't bring this suit?"
mircea_popescu: on which side ?
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ben_vulpes: the fbi's side - why would they argue apple's side?
ben_vulpes: but really it's ambiguous for a reason
ben_vulpes: got someone bought in on the "drop on first packet or gtfo" mentality, but still have to conquer the "well first you have to transfer the IP buffered packets into user space" mindset
ben_vulpes: "because lol what we're going to fab our own chips?"
ben_vulpes: mwell now that you ask...
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what's your cad poison of choice?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> got someone bought in on the "drop on first packet or gtfo" mentality, but still have to conquer the "well first you have to transfer the IP buffered packets into user space" mindset <<< can you say this in other words ?
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ben_vulpes: "yeah man! big challenge though is to get it to operate at line speed."
ben_vulpes: "pff line speed. you still need to get the buffered packets from the kernel into userspace, and that's an abstraction you'll have a hard time getting around."
ben_vulpes: because the counterparty in this conversation is not thinking of gossipd as a device but a proggy that runs on a computer.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have a (unpublished, for good reasons) prototype that doesn't have 'kernel' or 'userland' at all, but just this bare metal thing that sets up the nic ring buffer (coreboot payload) and loops, checks rsa, retransmits on other nic...
asciilifeform: on ordinary (well, 'pcengines' pancake) computer.
asciilifeform: asm, it's good for you.
mats: that sounds fun
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asciilifeform: mats: the idea is, a kind of line-speed (GB ethernet) wall, where crud goes in, and valid in-wot gossipd out.
asciilifeform: if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid.
mats: did you actually write the routines in asm?
asciilifeform: but doesn't work as well as i'd like, not line speed (uses dumb bignum)
asciilifeform: i will pick this back up again when there is reason to.
asciilifeform: the idea is very simple, anybody who really wants to can pick his favourite nic chipset and implement.
asciilifeform: not much in terms of moving parts, ought to handily fit in a nic boot rom.
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mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid. << this sounds like the ticket.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's what 'line speed' means.
asciilifeform: it means that the crud doesn't affect the valid payloads.
asciilifeform: in whatever way.
asciilifeform: (at least, not after it leaves isp)
mircea_popescu: i could see even dedicating a box to this.
mircea_popescu: make it a nice firewall.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's sorta how it is meant to work.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prototyped on one of these,
asciilifeform: ^ these are prolly the only 100% open x86 box presently made
asciilifeform: (no-turd firmware, full schematics)
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