Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2014-10-29 | 2014-10-31 →
BingoBoingo: Ebama could spead a lot of Obola with a fat stash of BTC
thestringpuller: Fucking Giants.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56254 @ 0.00079415 = 44.6741 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36250 @ 0.00079557 = 28.8394 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26227 @ 0.00079577 = 20.8707 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: hah microsoft's got a wristband product
mircea_popescu: so this dingy old laptop is converting two movies and playing a third
mircea_popescu: such a little trooper i swear
ben_vulpes: converting?!
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform looks forward to the possibility of the coprophagiac zoos of western eu waking up to the fact that what turned them into such was - nato. << at least the warsaw pact countries figured it out.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i hate mp4.
ben_vulpes: but vlc handles everything...
mircea_popescu: i still hate mp4.
ben_vulpes: lol can you hear the movie over the things fans?
mircea_popescu: fans are so quiet the street's louder at 1 am.
ben_vulpes: what magic dingy laptop is this
mircea_popescu: ibm thinkpad.
thestringpuller: old as fuck
thestringpuller: didn't ibm sell that to lenovo?
undata: yep
mircea_popescu: yeah this is before that. 10 yo or so.
mircea_popescu: actually i think lenovo was manufacturing them anyway
mircea_popescu: i'd be much suprised if ibm actually MADE anything, even a decade ago.
undata: IBM still does the US "support"
undata: I had to get the screen replaced on this one under warranty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12618 @ 0.00079832 = 10.0732 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: undata: I had to get the screen replaced on this one under warranty << My 4 yo Thinkpad will probably be getting its third fan soon.
undata: BingoBoingo: I almost wrecked this one's fan coding in the sand by the columbia
undata: but I was able to clean it
BingoBoingo: I take this one out to the garage to smoke cigarettes
undata: cigs are the natural enemy of computer fans
undata: beer meanwhile, keyboards
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you should hear this fan.
mircea_popescu: girl pissing two doors away is louder.
BingoBoingo: Why would I spill the precious? Also not much of a beer person. Prefer my drink closer in composition to what would be used to clean it anyways
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Damn.
BingoBoingo: It's been a few days since my fan made the angry bees noise.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Is that the original fan?
mircea_popescu: far as i know...
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: I'm having trouble finding an MPOE-PR post using something Buffet wrote in relation to mining. How capital expenditure is made in textiles etc.
thestringpuller: whatever happened to dr. foreskin
assbot: Carders Cashing Out Into Bitcoin/Cash Via Coinbase & Others |
cazalla: thestringpuller, he got circumcised
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
thestringpuller: ;;calc 21000000 / 30
gribble: 700000
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51929 @ 0.0007939 = 41.2264 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up eightyeight
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller so look straight in buffett's letters.
assbot: ASICMINER vs. Cado.AvalonB3
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10532 @ 0.00079743 = 8.3985 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15297 @ 0.00080241 = 12.2745 BTC [+]
bounce: so, is there any data anywhere of the efficacy and efficiency of KYC and AML reg implementations?
undata: bounce: seems like a question for a finance industry lawyer
undata: I'm sure they're highly effective at creating a target for identity theft.
RagnarDanneskjol: efficacy and efficiency for whom or what?
thestringpuller: !up w0lf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.00080311 = 36.3809 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: the stated purpose might be a good start
bounce: then you tally the side effecets and perhaps you can make a nice little table with false and true positives and negatives perhaps
bounce: those civil forfeitures for people "structuring" their deposits so their bank has less paperwork to do is clearly an effect but not, as far as I know anyway, a publicly stated purpose of the reporting rules
RagnarDanneskjol: the 'stated purpose could only be trolling for unauthorized activity. it would be the same as efficiency/efficancy of any other surveillance - its much better than nothing but not as good as they'd like. there would simply be all negatives for one party, all positives for the other
bounce: that sounds like a load of rationalisation bs.
RagnarDanneskjol: hmm, I actually couldn't comprehend how to gauge the proficiency of kyc/aml, so was trying to help you clarify for me
bounce: then look at what they're supposed to do, like look at the language used to introduce the regs.
bounce: "combat money laundering" -- what is money laundering and (leaving aside for the moment why it would need combating) how exactly do you discern when something is money laundering or not.
bounce: s/\./?/
bounce: if there's no sure-fire way then perhaps the whole idea of combating needs to be scrapped. if that isn't the case, you can look at what effects the regs have and tally incidents they have an influence on, discerning "this was money laundering" and "this wasn't", tally separately
bounce: that at least gives you an idea of its visible effects, which isn't the whole picture but at least is a start
RagnarDanneskjol: the definition for ML is fairly straight forward - like an arrow, it either hits a target or doesnt depending on archer's accuracy. what you're talking about there is the proficiency of individual arbiters weighing decisions to execute warrants.. I'd guess their accuracy varies rather widely
bounce: warrants? what do you mean, warrants?
RagnarDanneskjol: warrants to get customer data
bounce: that's much too narrow. people getting their accounts shut down because too much bother is also an effect of these same regulations.
RagnarDanneskjol: essentially unrelated to aml I believe. account closure without legal action is just business discretion/risk mgmt. Of course regs preempt cautionary' corporate policies if thats what you mean. back to the original question, its all positive for regulators/prosecutors, all negative for account holders. virus is possibly a good analogy- its all warm, positive, and welcoming for the vi
RagnarDanneskjol: rus, entirely harmful for the host
adlai: > mark karpeles busy working on new software codenamed 'midas'
adlai: > SEC using new market analysis tool... codenamed 'midas'
adlai: wake up sheeple
adlai: "The system, akin to an X-ray machine for the stock market" Here we see the useless metaphor in its natural habitat, a NYtimes article
adlai: looks like without this, the SEC wasn't taking into account unexecuted offers, which is kinda laughable if they're trying to detect/prevent "manipulation"
bounce: <RagnarDanneskjol> essentially unrelated to aml I believe. << no, it is not. you don't get to exclude actions taken by non-government actors because of the rules because they're not government actors.
assbot: Putin says Washington fails to respect the interests of other countries | Fox News
adlai nurses his slumberbrain into wakefulness with and classical music
assbot: 1000 Quotes in BPY - YouTube
thickasthieves: but yes, the Putin thing is mostly uncovered in us
thickasthieves: not covered, i should say
thickasthieves: <+cazalla> i bet this multisig shit turns into a customer service nightmare for coinbase ---- and they explicitly only do online customer service, no phone
bounce: ie, "help yourselves, dear clients"
bounce logged in with $site, nuked cookies somewhere along the way, now can't log in because "csrf token invalid, try again", no matter what trick I throw at it. support is in a forum that requires logging in through the same form of course.
thickasthieves: Tim COok just came out of the closet
assbot: Tim Cook: "I'm Proud to be Gay" - Businessweek
thickasthieves: stock down .5% in premarket
bounce: down because fear it'll be down
adlai: dtf
adlai: thus the modern stock market enables us to calculate the free-market price of a fuck, commonly only approximated through dark pools in back alleys
thickasthieves: So if the SEC is enabling some traders to get early info, will the SEC fine the SEC?
adlai: exchanges are enabling that and the SEC is two decades late to the party
assbot: Putin at Valdai - World Order: New Rules or a Game without Rules (FULL VIDEO) - YouTube
thickasthieves: worst translator ever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00079979 = 14.9561 BTC [-]
thickasthieves: geez i like Putin
thickasthieves: let's get him in here
adlai: in soviet russia, wot get inside of YOU!
adlai: / logs read YOU
nubbins`: <undata> beer meanwhile, keyboards <<< my last laptop drank a beer and died. current one drank a coffee and is still kicking
punkman: I've always thought the drainholes under keyboard in Lenovo machines were a great idea, haven't had a chance to test it though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00079979 = 8.4938 BTC [-]
nubbins`: speaking of testing, any sign of punkbot 8)
punkman: maybe today, gotta remove the stupid
punkman: but gpg libs are not helping
nubbins`: what's the backend written in
punkman: python
punkman: python-gnupg, I couldn't get recv_keys to work, tried fork of library, I can recv_keys but it burps on some unicode chars returned by keyserver and doesn't confirm key was imported.
nubbins`: oh hey, nanotube contributed to that particular method
kakobrekla: want wot? fix python.
punkman: yeah I'm not even sure what version nanotube is using
nubbins`: paste some code
nubbins`: where you're trying recv_keys
nubbins`: oh and what OS is this running on?
punkman: FreeDOS
kakobrekla: whut?
punkman: it's debian
nubbins`: heh, ok
nubbins`: yeah, paste yr code, let's take a peek
nubbins`: ;;google release early, release often
gribble: Release early, release often - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <,_release_often>; Release Early, Release Often - <>; The Hardest Lessons for Startups to Learn - Paul Graham: <>
kakobrekla: ;;google shut the fuck up
assbot: dpaste: 00XNZ8B
assbot: isislovecruft/python-gnupg · GitHub
punkman: (pip install gnupg)
assbot: UnicodeDecodeError · Issue #49 · isislovecruft/python-gnupg · GitHub
nubbins`: ^ was just gonna paste that :D
assbot: Comparing master...fix/49-unicode-decode-on-readline · isislovecruft/python-gnupg · GitHub
nubbins`: give that a try
punkman: yeah I love that I'm running "develop" versions for all major pieces (supybot, electrum)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00079979 = 5.7185 BTC [-]
punkman is gonna need some tobacco, runs out
jurov: punkman, are you aware there are gnupg and python-gnupg as not fully compatible forks of each other?
jurov: i discovered that while doing mepxagent.
punkman: jurov: yeah and there's a dozen other similar libraries too
punkman: so pack of tobacco from corner store, 4-5eur from 17gr, bag of tobacco from guy I know, 20eur for 1kg.
punkman: if only he knew how to cure it properly
kakobrekla: properly curated costs even less than 20eur/kg in bosnia
kakobrekla: maybe 10 eur.
kakobrekla: for the high end.
punkman: kakobrekla: teach them how to bitcoin plz
kakobrekla: i dont know anyone younger than 40 there
kakobrekla: or well, a kiddo.
nubbins`: i thought about growing tobacco
nubbins`: quit smoking instead
punkman: good idea
nubbins`: it's like having a part-time job where you get paid to not show up
bounce doesn't smoke but isn't getting paid for the not-smoking either
bounce: where did I go wrong?!?
punkman: clearly you should start smoking
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: then quit
nubbins`: it's like getting paid
nubbins`: do you know how much money i've "earned" since quitting?!?!
thickasthieves: pankkake says hello: "That’s not an “update”, please avoid associating your nonsense with my script. Your “solution” provides no easy maintenance and comes with greater hardware requirements (as with anything pre-0.8), but I suppose you guys are pretty much clueless on this. Also conveniently forgetting that 0.9 introduced the possibility of disabling the wallet functionality
thickasthieves: altogether."
nubbins`: ;;calc (2*365+366+13)*10
gribble: 11090
nubbins`: er sorry
assbot: Enough of What “Most People Think,” Tell Me What You Think or STFU | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
nubbins`: ;;calc ((2*365+366+13)*10)/[ticker --last]
gribble: 33.224482459
nubbins`: like 33 btc!!!
punkman: well maybe you bought a pack for 10k btc long ago
jurov: <asciilifeform> [20141030 00:13] that thing's running on what, a commodore64? << seeing kako's problems, I put a CDN in outright in front of it
jurov: obv, that means caching delays
punkman: jurov, what are you using
jurov: cloudfront
nubbins`: thickasthieves why so butthurt anyway
nubbins`: !s pankkake
thickasthieves: dunno, he so mad tho
thickasthieves: " Whether one is a US-based exchange or not doesn't decide whether one needs to register. The question is whether a company has clients in the US or not. If so, they are subject to regulations of that jurisdiction."
thickasthieves: hmm interesting concept
thickasthieves: can a US exchange run unregulated by the US if it only serves non-US customers?
jurov: and if it does not register, then what?
punkman: thickasthieves: wasn't kraken doing that for a while?
jurov: iirc it's already established MPEx server everyone, what are they gonna do about it?
jurov: *serves
RagnarDanneskjol: thickasthieves - thats what coinsetter did their first couple of years for that reason
thickasthieves: quite interesting
kakobrekla: coinsetter is idiots.
thickasthieves: i mean, who wants us customers anyway
kakobrekla: not cause of that, just in general.
nubbins`: thickasthieves +1
assbot: Cybernetic arm goes crazy on canadian TV show - Imgur
nubbins`: my sides
thickasthieves: "Don't know if 1970's or hipsters" lol
nubbins`: aaaaah my face hurts
nubbins`: can't stop watching
nubbins`: the host!!!
nubbins`: he's all "this is highly irregular"
ben_vulpes: punkman: i've run afoul of the python gnupg wrapper
ben_vulpes: i ultimately went the route of shelling out to gpg directly and writing my own little lib that did exactly what i needed and nothing else
ben_vulpes: thickasthieves: where's that pankkake comment from?
thickasthieves: i linked
ben_vulpes: h foundit
thickasthieves: he still loves us
thickasthieves: i can tell
TomServo: "Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified." << seems like an odd point to wedge in amongst the rest.
punkman: ben_vulpes: which wrapper were you using?
assbot: MIT Media Lab Gets a Transforming Logo, Courtesy of Pentagram | WIRED
thickasthieves: Pentagram is like the identity design elite
punkman: just when I was thinking hey this is pretty good
punkman: then the ad slide pops up
thickasthieves: it's really good imo
thickasthieves: it's nearly impossible to get a client to accept stuff like this thi
thickasthieves: it's why i always loved the Apple logo designer
thickasthieves: his deal was, i'll make you a logo, and you'll take it as is
assbot: SJW ? You mean SEW ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: TomServo why so?
nubbins`: thickasthieves this is how pink eye prefers to work for design jobs
nubbins`: it's way, way, way less painful for everyone involved
TomServo: mircea_popescu: It just struck me as not fitting with the rest of the message. What innovations might he be referring to?
mircea_popescu: well the way i read it it's not referring to anything, merely refusing to commit to anything.
thickasthieves: he does almost sound like he's gonna pitch Bitcoin for a minute
TomServo: hehe, that's kind of where I was going
TomServo: The other points seem much more specific, and I would think there is at least something in mind when referring to innovations into the social order.
thickasthieves: it's a well written speech in that its general enough any individual can map it onto his own perspectives
assbot: Majestic-12 : DSearch : MJ12bot
mircea_popescu: a distributed replacement for google might be a pretty damned good idea
mircea_popescu: especially if it doesn't end up with a manual "algo"
assbot: Enough of What “Most People Think,” Tell Me What You Think or STFU | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
thickasthieves: the local rap group in my hometwon was called 12Majestik
jurov: any non-manual algo will get spammed
mircea_popescu: jurov no, make search wot-based.
punkman: sort of distributed google
assbot: YaCy - The Peer to Peer Search Engine: Home
thickasthieves: my search idea could combine with a distributed one, have all ranking factors be open and weightable by the user
thickasthieves: provide templates to start from
jurov: mircea_popescu you forgot the wot ratings must be examined manually to be useful?
thickasthieves: and default mode is the average of all users
ben_vulpes: punkman: python-gnupg iirc
mircea_popescu: jurov which is why this is so useful : try and do it for search, high volume and low risk, see if anything useful can be done algorithmically.
thickasthieves: google killer in a nutshell
jurov: punkman: i ended up calling gpg --recv-key directly
jurov: even then, it did some failures like "key rejected by input filter"
jurov: dunno any lib can handle that
punkman: jurov, I think I could publish a pubring that gets updated a couple times a day
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves i suspect this is like the "myspace, music industry killer" idea a decade ago. yeah, it'd work, if people didn't suck. people do suck, and as a result, myspace dies.
jurov: punkman: incl. removals/revocations?
punkman: ideally
thickasthieves: i think "work" definition would change in this case
thickasthieves: from google being the curator, to newsearch being the db with sort
punkman: I am also considering making the bot spit out expiry/revocations in a diff channel
thickasthieves: google can still be google
mircea_popescu: it'd certainly be useful for linux-y types, me and google divorced when it took out the operands.
thickasthieves: and would be smart to move harder in the curation direction in the face of such a service
thickasthieves: they already are tho,
mircea_popescu: and google is the shittiest curator imaginable. people in commie romania thought they had it bad, but this is pointedly worse.
thickasthieves: Google Music, etc
thickasthieves: well thats why you use newsearch and lazy ignorants use goog
thickasthieves: i actually call it Project Search Party
mircea_popescu: "oh, everything is on wikipedia" is not curation. why the fuck would i want google to return a wikipedia result in the first place, what, as if i don't know they probably have a shitty article sort-of talking around topic x ?
thickasthieves: the project i'll never work on but always talk about
mircea_popescu: why aren't you working on it again ?
thickasthieves: how the fuck to make a search engine?
thickasthieves: i dont even mine!
punkman: thickasthieves: write down some ideas
thickasthieves: i think i do have a writeup started somewhere with examples, etc
thickasthieves: but i cant even manage getting someone to recompile altcoind for windows
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves the way people do. you write down the task, break it up, write down the parts, break them up, read up on the topics, implement, refine...
mircea_popescu: what have all these other schmucks been doing ever since this chan started ?
punkman: I want to make personal search engine that gets fed with my browsing history, bookmarks, local content (email, logs, etc)
thickasthieves: i also would like (and surely others would to) a cumalitive customizable chart for bitcoin exchanges
thickasthieves: so i can choose which ones to combine into one chart
jurov: punkman KDE tried with akonadi... kinda works after years of prodding
mircea_popescu: such a consummate consumer this guy.
punkman: thickasthieves: I got code that can fetch ticker/trade data from dozens of exchanges
thickasthieves: punkman, this is kinda what cell phone OS are doing
jurov: such overarching systems are usable only for incredibly patient people like me
punkman: been wanting to put it into use
thickasthieves: when you search on android it digs into all kindsa shit
thickasthieves: punkman, are you capable of turning that into something that can output a custom file to feed into Metatrader or such?
nubbins`: ios/spotlight search too
punkman: yes
thickasthieves: and capable of serving such a chart on a website like bitcoinwisdom?
thickasthieves: (not bitcoinwisdom of course)
punkman: that'd take some time, lots of javascripts
punkman: unless I can export from metatrader
thickasthieves: i think traders would gobble it up
thickasthieves: a live aggragate chart with customizable tickboxes for exchanges
thickasthieves: aggregate
punkman: yeah and maybe sockets people can subscribe to
bounce: you built that fetch code?
thickasthieves: this was partly within my ideas for Coinflow, before bitcoin play exchanges all died
mircea_popescu: that's the risk, you put the work in, "traders" love it, then it turns out the "traders" are 500 redditards all sunk to the hilt in bitfinex/bitjam/whatever
mircea_popescu: then you make fiddy bitcents off them and a well.
thickasthieves: if you establish the user base, then you can become the dominant index provider
thickasthieves: Coindesk seems on this path, but theyre bound to fuck it up
mircea_popescu: you won't become the dominant index provider because people who matter don't chart and people who chart don't matter.
thickasthieves: but everyone wants to know the price
mircea_popescu: you will become the reddit index provider, which is not how you feed that market. you don't make goof stuff for the consumers, you make cheap shitty stuff for them
mircea_popescu: then hire people to tell them how it's all okay.
mircea_popescu: everyone does want to know the price, but a speshal few know you wouldn't know anyway.
mircea_popescu: this being kinda why all the however many exchange feed centralizers went nowhere.
thickasthieves: should there not be someone who is trying hardest to discern the price?
mircea_popescu: putting most work into != trying hardest necessarily. besides, what's this hardest, taking exchange feeds ?
thickasthieves: maybe mapping otc in there, trying to pry info from people like coinbase or bitpay, i dunno
thickasthieves: ur right tho
thickasthieves: other turdtards are already on this
mircea_popescu: not to be a parade pisser, but there's problems lurking.
thickasthieves: Coindesk, etc
thickasthieves: i got off track anyway
mircea_popescu: generally what everyone thinks is the thing to do is wrong, which is why the "never compete in saturated markets" advice's served me so well over the years.
thickasthieves: the idea was to make the feeds managable
thickasthieves: not to curate
mircea_popescu: maybe my needs are unrepresentative, but i find they're served equally well by any of the older providers. bitcoincharts, bitcoinity, whatevers.
thickasthieves: true, this is more of a trader thing
thickasthieves: stemming from,
thickasthieves: there are big players working across exchanges
thickasthieves: so volume on one is far from representative
thickasthieves: so if you are attempting to chart or even look at trends or volume alone, you relaly need the whole picture
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.0008034 = 16.55 BTC [+]
thickasthieves: i do understand this is still a limited spectrum
thickasthieves: but it's the spectrum in which traders play
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves do you understand that as dubious as charts are generally, which we won't rehash, at least generally there's the atomic market ?
mircea_popescu: whereas for all you know in bitcoin twelve whales get together in a secret chan somehwere and that's how the price moves ?
thickasthieves: sure, i meant this with the spectrum comments
thickasthieves: i'm not commenting on whether its just a shared delusion
thickasthieves: that doesnt matter
mircea_popescu: girls just wanna have fun ?
thickasthieves: cuz, well, everything is
mircea_popescu: not everything is. that's the essential point.
thickasthieves: i'm being hyper abstract
mircea_popescu: lol what's that ?
thickasthieves: well things only matter in a context
thickasthieves: and the more contexts you fractalize, the less they matter to the outside
thickasthieves: with the outer being total meaninglessness
mircea_popescu: what's to fractalize ?
thickasthieves: encapsulate smaller contexts
thickasthieves: paradigms
thickasthieves: in the end we're all just floating muck, without context
mircea_popescu: you gonna get butthurt if i tell you your though process would drastically benefit from more rigor ?
mircea_popescu: good, cuz it would.
thickasthieves: itd help if i knew what you meant tho
mircea_popescu: somehow i've never noticed it before, but chicks in this country have positively gorgeous hair
xiando: It doesn't matter if you really are 12+ whales on some private IRC channel, you can't just set the price anyway.
thickasthieves: are you just saying, stop spouting bullshit and read more books?
assbot: In which noobs learn lessons and pay for the privilege pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: This is how much I rule (today) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves not at all. i mean something quite specific :
adlai: spouting bullshit is OK, as long as you curate it a bit better than just letting assbot dump it all in a text file
mircea_popescu: you say "hyper abstract". this is like in code, calling function X. compiler (me) goes wait, wut ? so you go "function X () { random banal shit; }"
mircea_popescu: now, it's entirely your privilege, as the human in this relationship, to define function x any way you please
mircea_popescu: but the particular definition you gave indicates to the compiler, were the compiler human, that a) you hadn't considered it before using it and b) as defined prolly doesn't serve you in any sense.
thickasthieves: i gave it such a name for this reason
mircea_popescu: how's that work ?
thickasthieves: as i knew i was about to explain something as i thought it, but i also knew it was a concept in my head from the past but which i have never articulated in words
bounce: something like abstract algebra. do math to numbers only forget about the numbers.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves obviously i can appreciate thinking is a process, and one has to make sense of one's [intellectual] history, etc.
thickasthieves: in case you havent noticed i like to explore the space in between things, and question the extremes
mircea_popescu: that's not in question.
mircea_popescu: it's a matter of methodology not of scope. the how, not the what.
thickasthieves: this often puts my in either a devils advocate position, or stranded
adlai: "write drunk, edit sober"
mircea_popescu: lol who's that, hemingway ?
adlai: indeed!
bounce: in this case I have no idea what you're on about
mircea_popescu: bounce just a little defensive, because not erryday gets to discuss his headpenis, and in public to boot!
thickasthieves: i was merely saying that this aggregate chart idea was for traders and thats ok
thickasthieves: even if traders are delusional
thickasthieves: they have chosen their paradigm
bounce: eh, maybe.
adlai: why not sell it to the SEC for when they want to regulate bitcoin markets
mircea_popescu: so have camwhores ? what is this.
bounce had been playing with the idea of an aggregator. didn't get around to actually do it though.
bounce: it's a good place to sit, business model-wise.
adlai: how exactly?
thickasthieves: what charts do camwhores need?
adlai: camwhores could probably use some quality analytics
mircea_popescu: camwhores are expert anatitics.
mircea_popescu: because i never noticed as many flaws an dproblems in a woman as when sitting with a coupla camhos watching her.
mircea_popescu: half the shit wasn't even there.
thickasthieves: funny story, an ex client, against my advice, moved to a notoriously bad (cheap) web guy,
thickasthieves: yesterday their domain expired and now points to pornhub
thickasthieves: council on Aging
thickasthieves: just launched their capital campaign
thickasthieves: so all these old fogies are watching bj vids now
mircea_popescu: best thing for em.
thickasthieves: probly better than worrying about when Meals on Wheels will be by
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i have a metal hand press, and a pile of oranges. so im going to make myself some freshly squeezed orange juice and douse it in the local cognac.
mircea_popescu: anyone want anything ?
ben_vulpes: 30 btc and a testing framework for 0.5.3
adlai: screwdriver pls
bounce: you got a teleporter?
adlai: made with cheap potato vodka
mircea_popescu: well no, but there's airplanes where you ppls live neh ?
bounce: if so, sure, why not
mircea_popescu: onus on the customer, that's the mpex way!
bounce: local airport is closed. nice long tarmac strip though, so send over the bitcoin jet.
thickasthieves: when can i have 3d printed jack&coke?
mircea_popescu: that doesn't taste like bottled tarmac ?
adlai: see now that is real fertile territory for innovation
bounce: bottled tarmac?
adlai: analyze jack&coke, engineer enzymes targeting its contents, put them in yeast and feast
mircea_popescu: bounce well 3d printing is mostly toothpaste sculpture, except with plastic.
mircea_popescu: (am i the only one into toothpaste art around the age of 5 or so ?)
adlai: well i did notice at one point that squeezing my asshole while pooping could theoretically sculpt the resulting turd, kinda like a lathe
adlai: then i began drinking coffee and my turds are now denser than depleted uranium
mircea_popescu: so coffee depletes the uranium in your got ?
adlai: "chemical printing" gets tossed around as the next step in automated manufacturing
ben_vulpes: sounds like your typical semi fab.
adlai: bounce: so you could theoretically "chemically print" the composition of any drink, medicine, poison, drug, explosive, etc
bounce: squirt acid on pcbs with an inkjet and skip the whole masking thing?
ben_vulpes: also, your typical us "food product" fab.
mircea_popescu: adlai and what it means is, "even cheaper furniture and finishings for the us mortgage mouse"
adlai: well, semi fab is using chemicals to manufacture a physical design
mircea_popescu: 'll just be for cheap toys, nightstand knobs that sorta thing.
ben_vulpes: i really don't see the difference.
adlai: "chemical printing" (which doesn't exist yet, afaik) is about using sufficiently advanced technology to manufacture specific chemicals
thickasthieves: nude self portait figurines, etc
ben_vulpes: vlsi or crappy door handle...
bounce: on-demand printing of otherwise unobtanium and expensivium parts is kinda useful though
ben_vulpes: like dna base pairs in bulk?
adlai: yes
ben_vulpes: p sure that's a thing already.
adlai: well, maybe for DNA base pairs
ben_vulpes: but i been out of the atoms biz for a while now.
bounce: dna printing. grow result in petri dish. cook. serve as dinner.
ben_vulpes: cocaine?
adlai: but not for arbitrary compounds
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves i had a bet with a younger, entrepreneur friend, which went that if automatic "make clone of your own penis" and "test yourself for all diseases" kits appear at the same time, the former'll oversell the latter.
adlai: insulin?
adlai: epinephrine?
ben_vulpes: spider silk componds in goat bladders?
bounce: somehow I think I'll prefer food the old fashioned way
adlai: now we're talking!
ben_vulpes: it's all a matter of demand, the tooling is out there.
ben_vulpes: a fact conveniently overlooked by populist health preachers.
thickasthieves: You can haz TWO penises now!
bounce: lots of tools out there
mircea_popescu: Print-A-Girlfriend OneStopShop & Kinko's.
thickasthieves: you can screw your gf in all holes at once
thickasthieves: it's like youre really there
adlai: well what would you do with the extra cock
bounce: we'd be back with the whole eugenics problem, only with a different face on it
adlai: it needs to get stitched in somewhere
adlai: you can't just print a cock and start waving it around like a dildo
thickasthieves: well you print extra cock with handles of course
thickasthieves: you can have a strap-on of ur own dick to do both holes
adlai: this is more a challenge of neuroscience and plastic surgery
jurov: << asciilifeform don't read
assbot: boycott Linux
jurov: he'll be fuming half day from that
adlai: i'm already pissed from the lack of hyperlinked endnotes
bounce: pissed? bit early, no.
mats_cd03: until now, i had never considered DPing a woman with a 3D print of my own dong
mircea_popescu: keep the natural away, use the replica.
mats_cd03: isnt modern life great?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 whatever you do, don't do the bj kiss. it'll ruin "traditional" life for you.
jurov: soon the replicas will be able to transmit feelings
mats_cd03: i try to discretely offer a glass of water
mircea_popescu: jurov first, diseases.
mircea_popescu: then feelings.
mats_cd03: not that i don't enjoy the taste of my own dong, just... i don't
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 no, not that one. the one where you kiss a girl while the other sucks you off.
jurov: lolk
adlai: "Linux's spread... reinvents the flat tire" nice
mats_cd03: doing two at once seems like a lot of work
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 only if you think of them.
mats_cd03: like... do you stop for a snack?
mats_cd03: i'd be exhausted.
mircea_popescu: i stop for a snack anyway !?
mircea_popescu: bounce: so, is there any data anywhere of the efficacy and efficiency of KYC and AML reg implementations? << nope.
asciilifeform: jurov: herr poettering owns a copy of 'sed' and a small sense of humour - but very little talent, turns out.
mircea_popescu: much like the tsa bs, it's never been reviewed.
thickasthieves: well nothing to review, it's not a service to the people, it's a service to the gov
thickasthieves: the internet makes crime easier, and US just wants to make sure they are the ones having it easy
mircea_popescu: but i like how bounce's legal mind works. seriously, contrary to all the pretense of the entrenched "profession" to the contrary, being a lawyer is EXACTLY being a coder, nothing different at all, let alone substantially different is taught in law school. the ONLY difference is that the hardware is very limited and the api incredibly old and terribly buggy.
mircea_popescu: course "loophole" doesn't have the same sound to it as "bug" does.
asciilifeform: attention turdatronic engineers:
asciilifeform: left turd syncing overnight, at bh ~= 252450, exhausted ram (8g)
asciilifeform: leakatron.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o yea.
thickasthieves: you remove patches, it leaks
asciilifeform: anyone running 'bare' 0.5.3 ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone willing to work with an incredibly intricately documented ad-hoc algol is more than welcome to be a lawyer. all it takes really.
mircea_popescu: adlai: "The system, akin to an X-ray machine for the stock market" Here we see the useless metaphor in its natural habitat, a NYtimes article << lol, quite. at least salon and the rest of the sew crowd make their metaphores pointedly wrong, rather than useless.
mircea_popescu: "The U.S. and the European Union have imposed several rounds of crippling sanctions against Moscow" << lolmkay.
asciilifeform: didn't point out, crippling - who
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. writing for your audience, worst fucking idea ever.
mircea_popescu: also this is why english is the international language whereas russian is not : english allows two parties to reach a "mutual conclusion" which they can both live with.
adlai: why doesn't russian?
mircea_popescu: russians : "The U.S. and the European Union have imposed several rounds of crippling sanctions against Moscow" ; nato : "The U.S. and the European Union have imposed several rounds of crippling sanctions against Moscow".
mircea_popescu: but in russian : США и Европейский союз ввели несколько раундов санкций против Москвы парализует себя. / США и Европейский союз ввели несколько раундов санкций сокрушительный Москву.
asciilifeform: 'google translate' died for mircea_popescu's sins
adlai: "US and European Union have introduced several rounds of sanctions against Moscow paralyze yourself"
mircea_popescu: wait wut ?
mircea_popescu: sebya = yourself now ?!
adlai: google translate of : until /
adlai: best mistranslation I've seen recently was a cop booking a swiss friend for rear-ending another car in massachusets
adlai: swiss guy's license is all in Deutsch, natürlich, so our brilliant state trooper scribbles in huge block letters in the accident report: "DUTCH LICENSE NUMBER 123456"
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: So if the SEC is enabling some traders to get early info, will the SEC fine the SEC? << funny how that works eh.
mircea_popescu: ;;google hungary is a country turkey
gribble: A blonde and a 3rd grade geography question - Snotr: <>; Relations between Turkey and Hungary - Ministry of Foreign Affairs: <>; Can she be THAT stupid? - YouTube: <>
mats_cd03: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 337.26, Best ask: 338.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.74000, Last trade: 338.0, 24 hour volume: 10893.91462845, 24 hour low: 332.99, 24 hour high: 344.22, 24 hour vwap: 338.382085275
assbot: Kellie Pickler :
asciilifeform: so, no one ever put the cursed thing through 'valgrind' or the like?
asciilifeform: i'm supposed to believe this?
adlai: satoshi was a visionary artist, not an engineer
asciilifeform: satoshackson pollack
adlai: looking over his original code... i'm almost surprised he didn't write in pascal
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 20:23:36; mircea_popescu: nobody that knows how to use valgrind.
adlai: well odin probably does, and a handful of grunts handling the sweaty work
asciilifeform: there is also the possibility that this shit is too much like work, and that is the explanation.
mircea_popescu: punkman: I've always thought the drainholes under keyboard in Lenovo machines were a great idea, haven't had a chance to test it though <<< this is the train of thought that ends up with keyboard rats.
asciilifeform was recently issued just such a machine by the fellow he works for. had an interesting 'face' when saw the holes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, as you well know, easy to make small holes while writing c++. in fact, the best use of c++ might be irrigation systesm.
mircea_popescu: "our holes never plug!"
kakobrekla: calm down, not all holes are made for fucking.
adlai: this is not the attitude that put a robot on mars
asciilifeform: now it's fucking around aimlessly while trying to pull blocks
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: want wot? fix python. << want food ? invent deer!
adlai: import deer
mircea_popescu: dub weiser ?
gernika: Is there a seminal discussion on deeds/deedbot I can read up on?
adlai tried making a python joke
kakobrekla: adlai not compatible python 3
xiando: only 170 btc from 20k short at BFX \o/
adlai: they broke import!?
adlai: xiando: is anybody correlating swap market moves with market sells?
thickasthieves: "Her charming babe-in-the-woods persona also contributed to her post-Idol success" lol
mircea_popescu: gernika it's in the logs, yeah.
xiando: adlai: You see it clearly on bfxdata, like 2 hours ago there was a 1600 BTC trade where you clearly see both USD and BTC margin take spikes
asciilifeform: does phoundation's latest turd leak?
xiando: most swap taken is either used directly or within hours
thickasthieves: pankkake says .9 is where it's at
adlai: xiando: eyeballing correlations is nice, but it's just eyeballing... then again, this is just my kneejerk distrust of eyeballs rather than any concrete reason to suspect there's a problem with this approach
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2014 11:59:24; mircea_popescu: so based on mike_c's discussion last night, i think i have a very good addition to b-a kako. it'd go like this :
gernika: mircea_popescu great thanks
mircea_popescu: latter reprise. and there's a pastebin with the actual spec too.
assbot: Logged on 11-08-2014 00:24:04; mircea_popescu: Jason the idea is to expand current bitcoin-assets functionality with a register of deeds.
punkman: gernika, this should explain a lot
assbot: dpaste: 05YF5VH
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever plugged the leak in your secret magic turd?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mine doesn't leak, no.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to share even this patch?
mircea_popescu: but my dear man, it isn't A patch.
xiando: adlai: I actually do not get what you mean or why you are wondering if there is a colleration, if you short sell 1000 BTC then you borrow 1000 BTC so obviously swaps increase when the sell happens.
asciilifeform knew it, mircea_popescu is running own gadget.
asciilifeform: why are we polishing turd again...?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's at least two holes still extant to this day, i thought i said at some point
thickasthieves: why does this whole deeds, b-a form, sending 1btc to urself, hash, thing make me think about colored coins?
mircea_popescu: no idea ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.0008034 = 8.1545 BTC [+]
thickasthieves: does it already serve the purpose?
thickasthieves: it essentially lets you attach a "hash" to a token and tx, which is just a hyperlink to stored data elsewhere i think
asciilifeform wondering if pankkake starved
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive
assbot: Announcing Colorcore: an open source wallet for Open Assets - Coinprism Blog
assbot: Jon Matonis Resigns As Bitcoin Foundation Executive Director
mircea_popescu: in the sense that braindamaged implementations of nothing in particular are similar to actually useful implementations on the same basis, then yes, all c code reminds one of all c code and deeds of colored coins
thickasthieves: was onlybringing it up in case their stuff can be repurposed to save time
thickasthieves: a bit lately probly anywya
mircea_popescu: punkman: yeah I love that I'm running "develop" versions for all major pieces (supybot, electrum) <<< real manhood.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves i wouldn't touch it anyway.
thickasthieves: "Matonis has served as the head of the bitcoin industry's oldest trade organisation since July 2013"
thickasthieves: oldest trade org
mircea_popescu: we're here in the process of reimplementing the world because we don't trust one set of turdmeisters, you expect code will be reused from an even derpier set ?
mircea_popescu: <thickasthieves> oldest trade org <<< check it out, they're aware bitcoin foundation is going to destroy bitcoin scamfoundation.
mircea_popescu: punkman: so pack of tobacco from corner store, 4-5eur from 17gr, bag of tobacco from guy I know, 20eur for 1kg. << srsly, you're too useful to be smoking by the kg.
thickasthieves: lol ur like the annoying kid that always wins
adlai: xiando: btc swaps go into short selling btcusd, but also margin longing ltcbtc, th1btc. some also get reserved and not used immediately
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves lol but i have 30+ year's experience at it!
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> why are we polishing turd again...? << only way there is.
adlai: xanthyos: another scenario: i place a margin bid. you market sell. usd swaps go up, but the market has dropped. does this show up in an eyeballing of the charts?
thickasthieves: adlai, most of the swaps are taken up by swap dealers, and more likely, bfx itself
mircea_popescu: !up buytoshi
adlai: sorry, both messages were for xiando
thickasthieves: only one x name per room, wtf
adlai: eyeballing is probably effective for reasonably accurate big picture view, especially in a situation like bfx, where most volume is in a single market
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: it's like having a part-time job where you get paid to not show up <<< you're like one step away from being a mobster don. which is what that job is.
adlai: but at some point i'd like to algorithmically snarf this data, and i wonder occasionally how exactly to correlate between all these feeds
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 13:20:00; thickasthieves: pankkake says hello: "That’s not an “update”, please avoid associating your nonsense with my script. Your “solution” provides no easy maintenance and comes with greater hardware requirements (as with anything pre-0.8), but I suppose you guys are pretty much clueless on this. Also conveniently forgetting that 0.9 introduced the possibility of disabling the wallet functionality
thickasthieves: mp, next is link
mircea_popescu: "It’s like talking to a wall. There’s no use arguing with a cult."
thickasthieves: thats why he does it?
mircea_popescu: "i can't convince you people that 3 = 4 it's like talking to a wall you're a cult wah wah"
mircea_popescu: what the shit even.
thickasthieves: mad at the world
thickasthieves: “The scenario of deflation is not there, because indeed we don’t consider that deflation is going to happen,” said the ECB’s vice-president, Vitor Constancio, ECB
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i still duno wtf script. what script ?
thickasthieves: pete mentions it, sec
thickasthieves: it's the script pankkake made to run a node
thickasthieves: pete modified it
thickasthieves: and pankkake says he dumb
assbot: Guide To Setting Up A Remote Bitcoin Node For $20 Per Year | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 16:49:26; pete_dushenski: 0.9.3 is obviously dirt but how would one go about installing 0.6.x on a vps?
undata: what openssl version is the 0.5.3 fork being built against?
mircea_popescu: well, left a comment, doesn't show.
mircea_popescu: in case pete actually loses it.
assbot: Neither arguing something stupidly nor arguing for something stupid gives one li -
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: " Whether one is a US-based exchange or not doesn't decide whether one needs to register. The question is whether a company has clients in the US or not. If so, they are subject to regulations of that jurisdiction." << utter bullshit.
mircea_popescu: i will NOT register with anyone ever on the guise that they can't keep their cattle in line.
mircea_popescu: this is like pretending that ranchers must register with one another because the cattle strays on their land and eats their grass.
mircea_popescu: gtfo before i start shooting.
thickasthieves: granted, though i realize now the quote is missing a bit of context, I think he was more pointing out that you could operate in the US, outwardly
mircea_popescu: you don't likle us citizens betting on bitbet, put fucking dildos in their chairs.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves no such thing.
mircea_popescu: they don't like it, close the borders.
thickasthieves: thats why i found it interesting
mircea_popescu: they want the border open ? lube up and moan with the music.
mircea_popescu: the world is not a us subject. the us is a subject in this relationship. an incredibly cheeky one, to boot.
thickasthieves: would they let me run SR from here if i only sold to Russians?
mircea_popescu: such broken.
mircea_popescu: ahh logs done.
mircea_popescu: this is so easier when y'all don't go fucking crazy with the keyboards!
thickasthieves: what happens if you apply this thought to S.nsa, it's safe only to sell encryption devices for btc from US, not to? nope...
thickasthieves: it's all so fukn retarded
thickasthieves: random thought, reading qntra this morning, i pictured 5 years in the future, where it was the craigslist of localized anarchonews
thickasthieves:, etc
thickasthieves: just a thought...
bounce:, where everything happens
xiando: mircea_popescu, if US laws apply in practice if you serve US citizens or not is basically a question of where you are, really. If you are in this country and the US tells the regime they want you then you're just picked up and put on a plane and maby, if you are very lucky, someone in the regime will bother to ask why they want you
xiando: It is like property rights locally, you are supposed to have them but you don't anymore
asciilifeform: thickasthieves: for btc from US << i expect to be gassed at some point (or to escape, but that's a pipe dream currently.)
thickasthieves: underground railroad your way to me, i have an empty house atm ;)
asciilifeform: thickasthieves: why would slave take the railroad to a slave territory?
thickasthieves: well you can train wherever you want, but you gotta make stops
asciilifeform: thickasthieves: i think i explained on, possibly 10+ occasions, the hard part is not the airplane (i even bought one of those arse-search passes we spoke of.)
asciilifeform: any idiot can scrape together a few pennies and get on an airplane.
mircea_popescu: xiando not really that simple, but anyway.
asciilifeform: i think i posted that here at one point.
mircea_popescu: <bounce>, where everything happens moar like, ?
assbot: The Legion of Decency: Sometimes The Dragon Wins
mircea_popescu: fucking execution squad for bikers, i tell you that right off.
thickasthieves: if you forget the email addy for an admin in Wordpress, how to password reset?
mircea_popescu: should be a little link on the page.
thickasthieves: ah shit, it's an email box that doesnt ecist
mircea_popescu: so change it in the mysql.
thickasthieves: i figured out the email, it's a dead one :/
xiando: change it in the db if you have access to it
thickasthieves: i do, though only a lil experience
bounce: no execution squads for road users, thanks.
thickasthieves: do you know what records i'm diggin for?
bounce doesn't really understand the animosity between bikes and cars, though. seems to be a north american thing.
asciilifeform: ;;google gold plated car
gribble: This Gold-Plated Lamborghini Model Car Will Set You Back $7.5 ...: <>; Gold Touch Inc mobile gold plating: <>; World's most expensive car? £4million gold Lamborghini ... - Daily Mail: < (1 more message)
thickasthieves: no one likes bicycles except cyclists
gernika: thx punkman
asciilifeform: (ancient essay on 'gold-plated cars', aka motorcycles, as moral hazard re: insurance)
mircea_popescu: bounce easy to explain : all preditors have an innate hatred of fast moving, light items ; preditors are better suited than rumminants for life on earth. as a result, people on bikes are in a position ot annyo people in cars, and people in cars are in a position to give them what for.
mircea_popescu: but the ruminants are really good at bleeting, and in the us currently that temporarily means something.,
mircea_popescu: so there you go. otherwise, the "animosity" is properly resolved with bikers paying the fuck attention and being humble and apologetic all the time to everyone.
xiando: thickasthieves: wp_users table ID 1
asciilifeform: elementary missing piece here - in many places in usa, a bicyclist is permitted to occupy a full lane. this slows traffic in the entire road to a crawl, very often, because now everyone is stuck in first gear.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems a detail.
asciilifeform: important detail when you're in this type of 'funeral parade' every other day.
mircea_popescu: for sure.
mircea_popescu: just run them over.
mircea_popescu: it's what i tell my drivers, anyway.
gernika: I once ran over a bicyclist. She then got a ticket.
mircea_popescu: if it was anyone important, he'd be in a car.
asciilifeform: drivers also struggle to escape from the 'funeral' lane, hastily swap lanes to the left, and often collide
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42727 @ 0.00080284 = 34.3029 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: except in usa, just about everyone is in a car, king and slave
mircea_popescu: anyway, bikers in romania pissed me the fuck off. bikers here are actually pleasant,
mircea_popescu: except one time i nearly clobbered this purely retarded, english speaking middle aged woman.
mircea_popescu: so it's definitely education.
mircea_popescu: "According to the forensic report, the vehicle never exceeded an AVERAGE speed of 34 Kph." << gotta love these forensic reports. the never exceeded average ? lol
asciilifeform: other thing to remember is that sidewalks are not standard in usa.
asciilifeform: (no idea about ca)
mircea_popescu: scandalous, this. but they are standard in new england
mircea_popescu: they're just not standard in shitholes.
asciilifeform: 'anyone important is always in a car' (tm) - remember
asciilifeform: or, so it was when these roads were built.
asciilifeform: hence - no sidewalk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform important. the notion that all the lemmings drive... meh. not really so great.
asciilifeform: direct interplay with housing bezzle
asciilifeform: the general magic number '1 hour commute' defines where usaschwitz inmate can work
mircea_popescu: and yet argentina has the world's widest street.
xiando: could actually be true if the vehicle had a constant speed of 34 Kph (such likely)
asciilifeform: those who are willing to pay the 'auto tax' into housing bezzle and get a 2-3x costlier flat, can live in special reservations where driving is optional.
bounce: that thing stinks quite a bit.
asciilifeform: as orlov pointed out, the u.s. bezzle consists of an iron 'car, house, job' triangle.
asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
thickasthieves: looks like craigslist already does this kinda
assbot: Death Row Inmate Asks For A Child As His Last Meal, Texas DOC Plan To
asciilifeform: if only.
asciilifeform: (texas abolished the tradition of last meal in 2011)
thickasthieves: adlai you watching this bfx action?
thickasthieves: !up adlai
adlai: oh thanks
adlai tries not to watch the markets when he's not actively tinkering with scalpl
thickasthieves: unusual stuff
adlai: these are some nice dumps though
thickasthieves: washing?
adlai: washing?
thickasthieves: selftrading
kakobrekla: what is this bfx action
thickasthieves: someone posting 1000btc bids, someone filling them all at once
thickasthieves: 4 times now
adlai: anything is possible when you have such a wild west of unregulation
assbot: Bitfinex Short vs Long Swaps
adlai: well, if you're waiting around to sell a slippy amount, and liquidity appears, you'll take that opportunity
kakobrekla: there is even less (leveraged?) bids on bfx than on stamp
kakobrekla: <adlai> anything is possible when you have such a wild west of unregulation < noone can claim to be bitcoin 'insider' . that doesnt hold true for regualted markets.
assbot: bitcoind retardation -
adlai: dunno, maybe if we regulated bitcoin a little better, then we'd have proper insiders n stuff
xiando watches bfx
ben_vulpes: forgive my valgrind/c naivte, but i'm assuming that indirectly lost refers to memory that cannot be freed?
asciilifeform: the other thing is, i'm fairly certain this is not the end of the story:
asciilifeform: the idiot db 'caching' also pisses away ram
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: '"Indirectly lost". This covers cases 4 and 9 (for the BBB blocks) above. This means that the block is lost, not because there are no pointers to it, but rather because all the blocks that point to it are themselves lost. For example, if you have a binary tree and the root node is lost, all its children nodes will be indirectly lost. Because the problem will disappear if the definitely lost block tha
asciilifeform: t caused the indirect leak is fixed, Memcheck won't report such blocks individually by default.' << from manual
assbot: Valgrind
asciilifeform: ^ for n00bz
asciilifeform: does anyone know the cause of permanent blockchain wedging in 0.5.3 ?
asciilifeform: coughs up 'maptransactions prev not found' in log
los_pantalones: 11k on the bid @ bfx now
asciilifeform: copiously
los_pantalones: wonder if this is the short swap closing
xiando: This DrewB closing?
xiando: (guy who bragged about having a 8k short position at BFX)
assbot: BitcoinStats
nubbins`: asciilifeform ^
asciilifeform: saw this.
asciilifeform: did not see anything useful
ben_vulpes: gratzi asciilifeform
nubbins`: nope
nubbins`: couple lonely forum posts
nubbins`: one guy says it started happening when he reverted from 0.6rc1 to 0.5.2
asciilifeform: attn turdmasters:
asciilifeform: presently i'm not getting the impression that anyone actually gives a sufficient fuck about this undertaking.
mod6: why?
asciilifeform: imho, the only way this will 'go anywhere' is either 1) mircea_popescu releases some 'declassified' portion of his in-house gadget, or 2) a free man takes up the torch of the turdlathe
asciilifeform: ultimately this is one of those things someone who gives enough of a damn - will have to pay for.
ben_vulpes: what?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you're moving at a pretty high velocity.
asciilifeform: !s asciilifeform day job
assbot: 17 results for 'asciilifeform day job' :
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i've taken it far enough to demonstrate that a usable gadget will require actual work.
ben_vulpes: sure.
asciilifeform: and provided basic impetus for anyone who wishes, to take up the work
asciilifeform: who wishes, knows how, and has time...
asciilifeform: i can satisfy criterion 1 and 2.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, as i gather, 1 and 3; mircea_popescu - 2 and 3.
asciilifeform: this thing needs 1+2+3.
asciilifeform: let the hero step up.
asciilifeform drives sword into stone.
nubbins` cheers
ben_vulpes: that story had a what - century long incubation period?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: cheer with coin.
nubbins` paws blindly for a donation address
asciilifeform: jurov ^
nubbins`: 1blablablalblbalbalba doesnt pass checksum
asciilifeform: i will provide a few tips to hero, gratis:
asciilifeform: 1) bdb and openssl deps have to die.
asciilifeform: 2) boost must also die, but this will require rewrite in totality
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00079937 = 22.5822 BTC [-] {2}
thickasthieves: xiando, yes it is DrewR, but it's more like 15k+ coins, and he took the walls down
asciilifeform: 3) gavin & the phoundation gang boobytrapped the blockchain in a number of ways that appear to interfere with reliable operation of classical nodes, these will have to be ferreted out
thickasthieves: he could just as easily post the walls as Asks too, using margin
asciilifeform: 4) everyone remember the thread where mircea_popescu explained why none of the people who, through necessity, arrived at a functional bitcoind workalike, have shared it.
asciilifeform: (functional in our sense, not merely in the technical sense of 'appearing to work')
xiando: thickasthieves: thing is, I don't believe him for a second
assbot: TradingView: Free Stock Charts and Forex Charts Online. | Awesome Screenshot
xiando: thickasthieves: total of 18k short and we are to believe 16k is his, eh?
xiando: while total net shorts were reduced 2k during those 1k trades?
asciilifeform: 5) if you think you have 'bitcoin career' or whateverthefuck, derping around with financitrons of whatever variety, and at the same time you're at the mercy of phoundation's turds and whatever direction they'll take them in, you're the goose waiting for christmas dinner.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the argument "no benefit, some risk"?
nubbins`: !s 2ef25247
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not enough to be willing to go on the expedition. also need pitons, tents, dogs, pemmican.
BingoBoingo: << Fuck me, of course CoinDesk gets the exclusive and the foundation blog has nothing.
assbot: Matonis to Resign from Vessenes Bitcoin Foundation |
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: or, in this case, 1+2+3.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm referring to mp's reasoning as to why functional turdatrons are not published
thickasthieves: xiando his 16k were bids, and he mentioned he ha slike 6k in shorts, of course we've no reason to believe him
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they aren't published for the mundane reason of 'i paid $maxint for skyscraper, why should others live in it for nothing'
asciilifeform: as well as comsec considerations.
asciilifeform: if proposed 'benefit' is contributions of 'fixes' from strangers, that's a joke right off the bat
xiando: oh sorry and thanks thickasthieves I only got that screenshot from some & not context
thickasthieves: someone needs to eat his lunch, i dont have that kinda swing though
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, others: << basic intro to 'open source doesn't work.' --- 'we' have steaming heaps of shit instead of software because that's what 'we're' willing to pay for.
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive
ben_vulpes: i can pay only in time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i confess i'm one of the sinful looking for a golden middle way
asciilifeform: don't get me wrong, if there liveth among us a hero who can piss out the required diamonds in his spare time, let him pull the sword out of the stone.
asciilifeform: but if it turns out that i am the only one here who even knows how to operate 'valgrind', 'gdb', etc. - you're SOL, fellas.
mircea_popescu: not what i mean tho. incidentally : that's rms gnu. he lies when he says that's foss. it's not. it's a particular attempt at a middle way, with him as the "modest" hero.
thickasthieves: asciilifeform, i heard TBF is looking for a new gavin
asciilifeform: thickasthieves: go sign up
thickasthieves: i'd probly do a better job
thickasthieves: and i dont even code
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves not under pressure.
asciilifeform: whatchawaitingfor then.
mircea_popescu: you're in the position of the wooden plank that's straighter than a bridge crossbeam. yes, now.
mircea_popescu: gavin did a pretty ok job in 2012, too.
thickasthieves: well i do have pm experience, itd be my only tool to tackle the job
mircea_popescu: then gunk starts piling up, and before you know it... you're praying nobody notioces.
thickasthieves: but i'm not interested anyway
mats_cd03: is there a linter for iptables?
los_pantalones: the short is payin up right now
los_pantalones: 335-340 trades couple thousand
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 wut is that ? you mean like lint for iptables ?!
mats_cd03: i can't tell if we're on the same page. but yes.
mircea_popescu: as in "sanity check" ?
asciilifeform: to finish off my 'sword into the stone' speech - yes, i can do this. (turd lathe.) but - if i were to put in the time required, the hour would soon come that i could not pay electric bill. and then s.nsa, and turdatron, will have to summon the gnome rumplestilskin to work in my stead. while i boil in whatever pot in hell moiety and pankkake are cooking in.
mircea_popescu: csf has something iirc.
mircea_popescu: poor moiety ;/
thickasthieves: drewr is market buying now
thickasthieves: this dude is askin for it
mats_cd03: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 339.85, Best ask: 340.88, Bid-ask spread: 1.03000, Last trade: 340.88, 24 hour volume: 10786.32003782, 24 hour low: 332.99, 24 hour high: 343.45, 24 hour vwap: 337.615467196
assbot: Chat - TradingView
thickasthieves: mp sometimes i wish you used your coins for evil
thickasthieves: like gobbling up whales
mircea_popescu: << something tells me that's just the beginning
assbot: bitcoind retardation -
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves evil is a concept ulterior to mp and whales.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that something being me, further down in log?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ahaha word.
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:54:25; asciilifeform: the other thing is, i'm fairly certain this is not the end of the story:
thickasthieves: well subsititute evil for which ever word permits said action
mircea_popescu: 64,000 (112 direct, 63,888 indirect) bytes in 1 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 62 of 77 << this tho
mircea_popescu: how do you lose 64000 exactly ?
mircea_popescu: why, by having an idiotic allocation policy.
mircea_popescu: how much of a buggy half implementation of a garbage collector is there in bitcoind ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, those 12 errors look like 6-10 different holes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a cpp turd that also depends on similarly buggy cpp turds
asciilifeform: e.g. bdb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: may as well ask that i build a new sarcophagus for chernoble in my amazing! copious! free time.
mircea_popescu: and make it snappy.
mircea_popescu: also, you can only use chocolate, provided it's ecologically sourced!
asciilifeform: fine soviet chocolate.
asciilifeform: (for n00bs to the subject, ussr never invented erzats chocolate, except towards the very end)
mircea_popescu: "that every man carries an endless, self-replenishing, delicious chocolate factory is simply a matter of perspective" ~ lenin.
joecool: i figure i'll ask, any of you guys ever built gnupg2 into an initramfs? attempting to use a smartcard for luks
asciilifeform is not thrilled with the fact that poroshenko owns most of the remaining supply chain for proper 'soviet' chocolate, and the latter may soon be in short supply
joecool: hitting a wall with pinentry not drawing a pin dialog (using the curses form)... just bails out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: does anyone know the cause of permanent blockchain wedging in 0.5.3 ? << i am pretty certain it's the bdb locks initialisation issue.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: those 12 errors look like 6-10 different holes << also please remember that there is no deterministic full-walk test for this turd orchestra.
bounce: what's special about soviet chocolate?
asciilifeform: bounce: everything.
mircea_popescu: bounce he's just in love with one version of "no artificial hydrogenated vegetable fat, not oversugared" chocolate, because grew up on it.
mircea_popescu: cuban chocolate is no different.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bdb locks initialisation issue << my current study suggests malformed txes in the mempool also.
asciilifeform: cuban << by aging soviet-trained confectioners, aha
bounce: so... what is in there? cocoa powder, cocoa butter, some sugar?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bdb needs a set_lk_max_locks directive to function properly with larger blocks.
mircea_popescu: by default a DB_CONFIG file in bitcoin root fixes the problem.
mircea_popescu: bounce temperature treated, yes. like saying "iron, some carbon, some molybdenum" = sword.
asciilifeform: db.cpp: dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(10000);
mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1
indiancandy1: HI babies
mircea_popescu: hey there desi.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform moar like 500k.
indiancandy1: how is every1
mircea_popescu: i *think* the maximal lock count a block may possibly need is somewhere just south of 600k, but i don't have the shithandy.
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 lovely! how's your film ?
asciilifeform rebuilt, grinding
indiancandy1: all is well darling
indiancandy1: im home
indiancandy1: chilling
indiancandy1: on bed]
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 how do you call an indian in indian btw ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rebuilt with 500,000, same shit.
mircea_popescu: which block is this ?
indiancandy1: what is a indian in indian
indiancandy1: dont make sense
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
indiancandy1: ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
indiancandy1: i gotchu
indiancandy1: depends right
indiancandy1: generally
indiancandy1: like punjabi is desi
indiancandy1: you can say apne
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah this is prior to that issue. hm.
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 what's "apne", breathless ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't laugh, greeks conquered them too :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you want polished turd, buy a girl who knows cpp, 'valgrind', gdb, understands memory discipline, can implement bdb replacement ab initio, knows ecdsa mechanics, etc, etc.
mircea_popescu: just for the lulz :
mircea_popescu: namespace Checkpoints {
mircea_popescu: 17 // How many times we expect transactions after the last checkpoint to
mircea_popescu: 18 // be slower. This number is a compromise, as it can't be accurate for
mircea_popescu: 19 // every system. When reindexing from a fast disk with a slow CPU, it
mircea_popescu: 20 // can be up to 20, while when downloading from a slow network with a
mircea_popescu: 21 // fast multicore CPU, it won't be much higher than 1.
mircea_popescu: static const double SIGCHECK_VERIFICATION_FACTOR = 5.0;
indiancandy1: it means
indiancandy1: indian
indiancandy1: kind of
mircea_popescu: / Guess how far we are in the verification process at the given block index
mircea_popescu: 39 double GuessVerificationProgress(CBlockIndex *pindex, bool fSigchecks) {
mircea_popescu: etc etc ETFC!
asciilifeform: turd on lathe requires liquid helium refrigerant to stay solid.
indiancandy1: mp wen u comin
asciilifeform: or it splatters instead of chipping
indiancandy1: 2 bombay
indiancandy1: 2 c me
asciilifeform: He costs around what good whiskey does.
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 not in the next five years.
bounce: from a hero to a girl in a few short log lines
asciilifeform: bounce: mircea_popescu only buys gurlz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, "we" have nfi why 252450 would hang.
ben_vulpes: more lulz
asciilifeform: 'hero' would be the fella who submits to carrying out this mission gratis, and can stay alive long enough to chop down a critical mass of foes.
ben_vulpes: // What makes a good checkpoint block?
ben_vulpes: // + Is surrounded by blocks with reasonable timestamps
ben_vulpes: // (no blocks before with a timestamp after, none after with
ben_vulpes: // timestamp before)
ben_vulpes: // + Contains no strange transactions
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "old for the sake of old" right ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no checkpoint there.
bounce would starve a bit too soon to take that up, ATM. otherwise have the time.
ben_vulpes: let's see how this collection plate goes, turdmeisters
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i don't get it ?!
asciilifeform hardened skeptic
kakobrekla: idk, 1000 shares sounds a lot
mircea_popescu: so they are going to feed the afrreddit hordes if oyu give them moneyz ?
ben_vulpes: i for one expect nothing.
ben_vulpes: can't disappoint me.
asciilifeform: anything that won't buy a whole man, may as well be nothing.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the charter is signed, right ?
asciilifeform: perhaps nubbins` can have 'sword in stone' t-shirts printed.
ben_vulpes: verify for yourself.
mircea_popescu: punkman so nao i want to verify things, but i can't, because no bot and i dun recall what the website is ;/
undata: ben_vulpes: nice!
nubbins`: perhaps i'll put it on the cover
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes okay, jurov appointed ? address published ?
asciilifeform: lol, signed with '1blablablalblbalbalba' ???
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you'll note: not signed.
asciilifeform: aha dead links
mircea_popescu: lulzy tho lol.
ben_vulpes: it's making a point.
mircea_popescu: jurov lettuce get this show on the road shall we ?
asciilifeform: fellas, i know, i have sympathy, when i was a boy i wanted to buy an airplane for 100 rubles too.
asciilifeform: and was indignant 'why not!?'
ben_vulpes: undata: yes i'm just so pleased to bite off this chunk of responsibility for no remuneration
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when I was a boy i actually bought an airplane (ride) for 100 bux.
asciilifeform: ride, aha.
mircea_popescu: military tupolev tho.
ben_vulpes: at least this time nobody's asking me what color my trabamborghini will be, or offering me worthless options.
undata: ben_vulpes: glory sometimes requires loss-leading
undata: :p
asciilifeform: heroes - straight to sword, stone.
mircea_popescu: this convo's enough to give naggum a second ulcer.
asciilifeform working on first ulcer
mircea_popescu: you're too healthy-looking for ulcers
asciilifeform will probably get there soonish
mircea_popescu: you'll get gallstones and arthritis.
asciilifeform: where is it written that a fat man can't get ulcer.
mircea_popescu: i didn't say fat!
asciilifeform: military tupolev << lol. my father rode in those for phree.
mircea_popescu: ;;google Tu-75
gribble: TU-46 | Game 2 Play Online - <>; Tupolev Tu-75 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; TU - 46 | Miscellaneous Games | Play Free Games Online at Armor ...: <>
ben_vulpes: glory? who cares for that.
asciilifeform: well, only catch, have to jump out.
undata: ben_vulpes: yes, acclaim among your peers never helps anything
undata readies a WoT rating
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the men called those, affectionately, 'тушка' (little sorry carcass)
asciilifeform: well any tu.
mircea_popescu: you know they weren't THAT bad a design.
asciilifeform: who said bad design.
asciilifeform: just rough ride.
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
mircea_popescu: anyway, those were the days. gasoline + 5 man crew for a day, 100 bux.
mircea_popescu: well, half a day. but they didn't fly wortha shit at night anyway.
asciilifeform: su army was fixated on parachutism, famously, quite like us army is fixated on pilotless flying machines
mircea_popescu: cuz they somehow had bad experience with the german paratroopers
mircea_popescu: tho they were an utter and total waste of resources
mats_cd03: us army is still fixated on parachutism, for no really obviously good reason
mats_cd03: besides test of bravery.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, the current us doctrine of "don't put the most valuable part of the plane in the most fragile part of the plane" is sound.
asciilifeform: the driver?
bounce: the infrastructure to make that happen isn't cheap and isn't that robust either
mats_cd03: although the 101 airborne was converted to an air mobility unit recently, so theres that.
mircea_popescu: if plane could fly w/o ground installations, captive pilot may make sense. as it is, pilot belongs with the airbase not with the plane.
asciilifeform: and anything other than a stone age opponent can blind the machine. or, if usa continues to insist on unsigned control signals, take it home.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so ? make moar.
mircea_popescu: the allies didn't win the war by making good tanks.
asciilifeform: make moar << works for su. for usa - no.
mats_cd03: arguably, the allies won the war because of excellent maps and radios
asciilifeform: in usa, 'make moar' would mean that someone has to actually think about cost.
mircea_popescu: gtfo, i hear they got 3d printing now and errything.
mircea_popescu: 3d printing TECHNOLOGY
bounce: patenting war to win the patent war
asciilifeform envisions patent lawyers dropped by parachute onto hapless infringers
undata: ben_vulpes: oh and protecting your own bitwealth; how bout that one?
undata selfishly wants the stripped down daemon for his own experiments
asciilifeform: undata: ru proverb: 'one [man] with a plow, seven with spoons.'
ben_vulpes: ripping usg crud out of the thing is a recipe to endanger any coins i'd have if i were not eating ramen so that the dog might eat
ben_vulpes: and girl
undata: ben_vulpes: at least the dog would kill a guy for you; my girlfriend's cats would just watch
asciilifeform misread as 'girlfriend cats'
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> ripping usg crud out of the thing is a recipe to endanger any coins i'd have if i were not eating ramen so that the dog might eat << dude that's touching, srsly.
undata: asciilifeform: don't tell me how to live :D
mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1
mircea_popescu: anyway, gotta go, bbl. don't eat each other ye hear!
mircea_popescu: buncha cultists.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wherever you're going, check for cpp gurlz.
nubbins`: ya down with cpp, yeah you know me
asciilifeform: !s down with entropy
undata: asciilifeform: is there a new client mailling list yet?
undata: *mailing
asciilifeform: undata: jurov had something quasi-working
undata: jurov: where to?
nubbins`: he's busy generating a treasury address by hand
asciilifeform: lolesury
nubbins`: sweet
undata: ben_vulpes: wonderful; thanks!
ben_vulpes: why thread does not show the same as date and author is a mystery to me.
asciilifeform: because it's b0rken?
ben_vulpes: reasonable.
ben_vulpes: source of breakage, also a mystery.
nubbins`: ah! finally got chickensoupd build
nubbins`: *built
nubbins` toots own horn
asciilifeform: nubbins`: now you too can watch it wedge.
nubbins` claps
nubbins`: !s wedge
nubbins`: 252450
ben_vulpes: the notes on bdb lock size are hilarious
ben_vulpes: "just try a bunch of different numbers until you find one that works"
kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37450 @ 0.00080264 = 30.0589 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: adlai: bounce: so you could theoretically "chemically print" the composition of any drink, medicine, poison, drug, explosive, etc << Very hard problem when you want to print anything protein
BingoBoingo:!states << It's like a map of #b-a Usians
assbot: Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast
BingoBoingo: Except who the fuck is in New York?
undata: in my case this will be where my VM is
asciilifeform: who the fuck is in New York << afaik most of 'verizon' ends up 'new york'
asciilifeform: incl. my fiber
BingoBoingo: thickasthieves: pankkake says .9 is where it's at << My 0.8.x node I run is rather low on memory consumption, runs with full txindex
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: these die during initial blockchain pumping
asciilifeform: why am i even telling this, go run it
BingoBoingo: I know. New ones exchange dying for a crawl during initial indexing instead.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: also see today's log, for why this is probably a doomed march
BingoBoingo: I'm still catching up to there
asciilifeform: !s sword stone
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 18:08:51; asciilifeform: attn turdmasters:
undata: asciilifeform: "this" being code review?
asciilifeform: undata: 'this' being the overall affair of transmuting the 0.5.3 turd into a usable weapon
undata: asciilifeform: perhaps the wealthier among us have reason to offer bounties
chetty: I would go after that sword if eulora wasn't in the way
asciilifeform: undata: afaik mircea_popescu doesn't actually need the weapon - already has own
BingoBoingo: Ah. asciilifeform So a solution is raising soldering irons to get weaponized bitcoind from pool ops
undata: asciilifeform: what's the point of not distributing it then?
undata: his
asciilifeform: undata: ask him - not me
undata: mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: he made it clear that didn't want to, why pester the man
undata: because I have an unanswered question.
BingoBoingo: undata: What is the use of releasing the chamber curve diagrams of an effective nuke?
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 20:24:45; mircea_popescu: maybe once it's over in the sense of, we're all drunk in the retirement home.
chetty: curiosity killed the cat
asciilifeform: perhaps his only runs on gurlz with arithmometers, how the fuck would i know
undata: it's a bit difficult to steer the direction of a decentralized network with no offering.
undata: BingoBoingo: justify the aptness of the metaphor first.
asciilifeform: i will answer the secret question which i can answer. 1) i personally can't pay rent with btc without giving up every other one to usg. 2) cost of extrication from gravity well is inconceivably high. 3) no one crowned me hero to begin with, why even ask.
undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time
BingoBoingo: undata: Alright. Spz you're a Jew in olden times coming onto the battlefield with your nifty bronze sword. Now the Assyrians emerge from the horizon, but instead of bronze they have Iron!
undata: BingoBoingo: that metaphor has no resemblance to what does and does not benefit the functioning of a decentralized network
undata: I'm not going to bother.
assbot: A dangerous idea - serialized delusions
asciilifeform: ^ jurov's chronicle
asciilifeform: but 1) i'm not interested in a book with gavin's excretions 2) not interested in a book describing system which does not work on battlefield.
undata: asciilifeform: yep I was around for that convo
asciilifeform: undata: so you know. boat - has no motor.
asciilifeform: no sails, no oars.
asciilifeform: just sorta, vaguely, floats.
undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects
undata: :p
undata: some kind of open process of producing source code
asciilifeform: undata: result - gavin.
asciilifeform: openssl.
undata: asciilifeform: see: libressl
asciilifeform: turd sans scatole is still turd.
undata: everything is shit but the speaker
asciilifeform: hero? straight to sword.
undata: reasoning by metaphor has its strengths and weaknesses
asciilifeform: i would love to see it proven that what i've said is a load o'shit.
undata: receiving money isn't the only way to invest in your own goals
undata: I need a programmable, robust client for my own applications
asciilifeform: the idependantly wealthy - straight to sword.
BingoBoingo: undata: Well, avoiding starvation and the sword are obstacles on the road to goals.
undata: oh please
undata: you don't have 5 hours a week?
undata: I do.
asciilifeform: I need a << i need an airplane
undata: there's an absurd orthodoxy around here
BingoBoingo: What absurd orthodoxy?
asciilifeform: undata: the orthodoxy wants to be proven wrong. don't wait! fire.
undata: there's ample evidence in the market that one can reduce cost and increase quality by open sourcing the things not directly in your moneymaking pipeline
undata: I'm not going to argue the merits of open source
undata: you people are all on linux or bsd
asciilifeform: undata: this is how we got the extant bitcoind. if you like it - you know where to find it
BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> why am i even telling this, go run it << sir you are a gift to the logs
undata: asciilifeform: that is a problem of the artists and not painting
asciilifeform: undata: yes, we know the ru/jewish saying 'the bad dancer is hindered only by his arse.' this should be seen as an invitation to the good dancers.
undata: asciilifeform: where's the source
undata: stock 0.5.3 still?
BingoBoingo: <undata> asciilifeform: that is a problem of the artists and not painting << No, this is a problem of no one fucking reading and the world burning because the entire stacks sucks because unread. Worked until it didn't
asciilifeform: 'плохому танцору яйца мешают'
undata: BingoBoingo: lets do nothing then
undata: life is too challenging
BingoBoingo: undata: No, you do things. You just have to understand the obstacles as you make your cue.
asciilifeform: undata: contains origin tree. 'chicken' lists the remaining files after first trim. rm_... is ben_vulpes's patch;
undata: how was the 0.5.3 choice made?
undata: reasoning by metaphor or an actual assessment?
asciilifeform: undata: read log
undata: I was here.
undata: I want your opinion.
asciilifeform: undata: earliest (lightest-weight, least lines of gavin) version that is known to be compatible with the extant net.
undata: there are myriad bugfixes that will need to be backported
asciilifeform: undata: yes.
asciilifeform: ^ other patches thus far
asciilifeform: signed by yours truly
asciilifeform: no one, yet, saw it fit to comment at length on them
ben_vulpes: hashtag asciilifeform patch collection
ben_vulpes: hashtag asciilifeform patch collection october
ben_vulpes: sweet. i can now custom index logs.
undata: I didn't initiate this thing; ben_vulpes do you have a desired process?
ben_vulpes: grab those patches, review, add sig if you want to put your ass on the line.
ben_vulpes: preferrably, build.
BingoBoingo wonders if there is anyone with more projects on their public plate than alf...
undata: what are the standards for "this goes"
asciilifeform: undata: i sorta initiated this thing, by pure accident.
asciilifeform: undata: but i have very little to do with it otherwise...
ben_vulpes: undata: we're currently blocked on a mailing list thinger that may or may not see the light of day anytime soon
ben_vulpes: i halfway think the gpg signature turdatron blocking merges and discussion needs to be nuked and implemented by some eager beaver later
undata: ben_vulpes: I'll just start a local git repo with stock 0.5.3, add your existing patches, and look into backporting a fix
asciilifeform: undata: standards << ben_vulpes and mod6 started, at instigation of mircea_popescu, a 'foundation', where somebody (them?) will sit as mergemaster
undata: process to submit is patch with signature?
asciilifeform: and decide what stays, what goes
asciilifeform: submit patch with signature, yes
asciilifeform: if you approve of another fellow's patch after honest study of it - you sign it as well
undata: alright. I'll take a look at it saturday.
ben_vulpes: if i don't have a thing going on on saturday we could even go so far as to pair
undata: ben_vulpes: k
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: share physical space, look at code as a...
asciilifeform: aha you're neighbours?
ben_vulpes: dark mirror images of each other in some aspects
ben_vulpes: he - software as a service
ben_vulpes: i - software services
undata: different enough to be enjoyable
undata: this sounds fun
ben_vulpes: both starving big zone kulaks
BingoBoingo: lies ben_vulpes, you do service as a software
undata: ha not bad ^
ben_vulpes: am software
ben_vulpes: will serve
asciilifeform: in my patches, thus far, nothing truly earth-shaking, just a surgical removal of what i consider clearly poisonous
undata: roughly... flamethrower, bandaids, minimal socket API?
asciilifeform: didn't even touch api
asciilifeform: that requires actual replacement
undata: that can be a later discussion
asciilifeform: or you have a machine with no steering wheel
undata: but poking the thing is desirable
asciilifeform: me - i don't want jsonism in my book.
undata: asciilifeform: hear hear
asciilifeform: my next patch was going to be a removal of the magic strings (seed ip table, etc) and replacement with ascii configs, as suggested by mircea_popescu.
asciilifeform: but now i don't see this thing as going anywhere
undata: asciilifeform: oh come on, at least give it *two* weeks before utter failure
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform issues challenge now.
undata: :)
ben_vulpes: classic russian fatalism
asciilifeform: the bare naked minimum worthy of nubbins` book, is a gadget that functions, reliably, on current network
asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud
asciilifeform: and no runaway memleaks
asciilifeform: the more gavin removal, likewise, the better
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform wants valground turd and...what is this 'delete blkindex'?
asciilifeform: ^ someone suggested this as a 'fix' for wedged blockchain load
asciilifeform: this is not tolerable.
ben_vulpes: what about bdb lock config?
asciilifeform: had no effect.
asciilifeform: why take my word for it - try it.
asciilifeform: do i need to explain why i asked for the book?
asciilifeform: or is it obvious to alert reader.
undata: asciilifeform: books fit in brains?
asciilifeform: not magically, no
undata: good outer bound though.
thickasthieves: so he can go to forest and see if it's broken
asciilifeform: so, in peacetime, if i live that long, i can take it to forest and write a 'popescuan' replacement.
asciilifeform: or if not i - one of you.
mats_cd03: such drama.
asciilifeform: right now we can't even make drama, the actors are drunk and spewing over the stage
mats_cd03: asciilifeform fears for his life, but won't flee to save it.
mats_cd03: what is this.
undata: disagreement is good for you
asciilifeform: flee - need diamonds for schindler's train.
mats_cd03: a game of catching the falling knife?
undata: someone should write a book of #ba metaphors
undata: speaking of books.
ben_vulpes: ;;google trilema variety speak
gribble: You're gonna have to learn that variety speak pe Trilema - Un blog ...: <>; #bitcoin-assets +m pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <>; Pro idiotas, which obviously means, people who have ... - Trilema: < (1 more message)
thickasthieves: undata this is sorta started in the b-a wiki, which anyone with voice can add to probly
asciilifeform: the mostly-empty wiki?
thickasthieves: maybe the foundation should take it over
ben_vulpes: get outta heah!
undata: I'll just grind out code and leave the speak to the pros
asciilifeform: undata: might want to investigate why the original does not, in fact, work.
asciilifeform: before adding code.
undata: asciilifeform: exercise to reader eh?
asciilifeform: (rampant memory leakage is not 'works')
undata: the grinding out code was a general statement of what I value
undata: talk is not a product
asciilifeform: straight to sword then.
undata cuts the knot in half
undata: asciilifeform: were we not talking about the kelvin way of versioning code?
undata: the same value applies to communication.
undata: I can send you a disassembled rube goldberg machine every time I open my mouth
undata: and we can get nowhere
undata: or we can get to the point and get something done
ben_vulpes: have at, undata
BingoBoingo: !up chrysalus
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
BingoBoingo: !up Squidward
Squidward: im squidward
BingoBoingo: WTF does that mean?
BingoBoingo: !down Squidward
assbot: The Next Chapter | The Bitcoin Foundation
PeterL: question: my scoopbot dumps links from posts into the chan, should I ask to have assbot ignore it or provide the title of each link?
assbot: Here's What the Mission Riots Looked Like After the Giants' Victory
bounce: so, the guy that's going to actively support unleashing lots of onerous gov't regulation on this bitcoin thing is now executive director of the bitcoin foundation
bounce: did I get that about right?
BingoBoingo: bounce: Well, executive director of the CoinLab Foundation for the promotion of scams and Redditurds
undata: "Fuck techies" << to the ovens with you
BingoBoingo: !up scoopbot
thestringpuller: reddit is full with turds
gernika: undata to the ovens with techies?
undata: incorrect
undata: ben_vulpes: where is db_cxx.h on OS X?
ben_vulpes: os x what now?
ben_vulpes: the -assets build is realnix only
undata: ben_vulpes: statement behind the question is 95% of this build crap can go
undata: if that's so
undata: stating the obvious
ben_vulpes: take a look at the first patch on
ben_vulpes: that has a manifest you'll find useful.
cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin
ben_vulpes: lol popped one out and became intolerable?
cazalla: you got it ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: os x << lol
chetty: Are they using 'wish' maps maybe?
undata: ben_vulpes: k so that linux-mingw makefile as starting point?
undata: that and unix survived. I was using the unix one
PeterL: !up scoobot
undata: bleh nvm, mingw is that gnu windows thing
undata: shouldn't that die too?
bounce: do you have berkeleydb installed and are you using gmake?
bounce: though might not need the latter, dunno.
undata: I do; gentoo's just got it in /usr/include/db4.8
bounce: thought you were doing an os x build
undata: bounce: neg, was not led by the patch name "chicken" to believe that that one cleaned up the project
undata: so I was deleting things
nubbins`: <undata> ben_vulpes: where is db_cxx.h on OS X? <<< brew install berkeley-db4
nubbins`: mine's in /usr/local/Cellar/berkeley-db4/4.8.30/include/
undata: nubbins`: what I meant to be asking is whether gentoo was weird by putting it in /usr/include/db4.8
undata: gentoo has this "slots" mechanism for having multiple versions of libraries
nubbins`: beats me. i've got a debian install here, it's in /usr/include
undata: that answers that, ty
PeterL: !up scoopbot
BingoBoingo: Os X is the weird one
BingoBoingo: It always is
BingoBoingo: U can't measure apple color with tools, because Apple is beyond measuring with tools
assbot: Why is the new iMac 5K instead of 4K? It’s all about the video, baby | Ars Technica
undata: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: muchas gracias; patched and built
ben_vulpes: holy f
ben_vulpes: client signed a no-deliverable, best effort contract with us and then made promises to their client executives.
PeterL: why would they do that?
ben_vulpes: maybe the next time i actually laugh at a scope/timeline combination in a meeting and the potential client still falls all over themselves to sign our no deliverable, best effort contract my internal warning flags should go up
PeterL: what is a "no deliverable best effort contract"?
ben_vulpes: hours only
undata: "look, your cat is likely to die during this life-saving procedure. sign here." ?
ben_vulpes: "we understand that you want these things. we will work on them in the agreed upon and prioritized order. you authorize unlimited budget in hopes that we can get it all done."
undata: ah
PeterL: so if you never get the first thing on the list done, then what happens?
PeterL: who do I talk to to not have to !up scoopbot?
BingoBoingo: PeterL: kakobrekla
jurov: !up dignork
BingoBoingo: Oh, there's a coup in Burkina Faso
jurov: dignork: you second message got discarded
jurov: *your
jurov: not able to debug it right now (imbibed stuff)
jurov: will let you know lateer what was he problem
jurov: ;;gettrust assbot dignork
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user dignork: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Fri Oct 18 12:20:18 2013
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Thank you for pointing me to the Folksom book. The practice drills are the best.
BingoBoingo: !up The20YearIRCloud
The20YearIRCloud: On cell, just got on to check messages. You need anything?
BingoBoingo: No, just saw you pop in.
BingoBoingo: !up twistedether
BingoBoingo: !up buytoshi
BingoBoingo: !up yoloshill
BingoBoingo: Journalism problems
assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept
undata: "What they found instead was a confounding array of rules, structures, and systems imposed by Omidyar and other First Look managers on matters both trivial—which computer program to use to internally communicate, mandatory regular company-wide meetings, mandated use of a “responsibility assignment matrix” called a “RASCI,” popular in business-school circles for managing projects—as well as
undata: more substantive issues." << bunch of crying
jurov: << i'd like to have turdatron ready for the anniversary, but it's unlikely
assbot: Gmane -- Bitcoin P2P e cash paper
BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit.
undata: BingoBoingo: articles like this are hard; they're trying to integrate two sides of a debate, where likely neither party is being fair
undata: as for corporate organization, *some* mechanism for order is needed
undata: how else are you supposed to coordinate?
BingoBoingo: undata: Well, key part of getting to why it wants to be read one way is evaluating... What platform it lives on.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell PeterL first, second, third, umpteenth will get done. arbitrary items from bottom of list by time not communicated to dev team?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
undata: BingoBoingo: yes of course
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wherever you're going, check for cpp gurlz. << none!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process. << srsly, how do you keep this dry ?
mircea_popescu: 1 minute kakonizing > 1 hour martinizing
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo:!states << It's like a map of #b-a Usians << i thought everyone was from portland and atlanta.
assbot: Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, I'm in one of the green ones in the middle
BingoBoingo: At least I thought I was.
mircea_popescu: shit traffic dropped yest
mircea_popescu: gotta fire someone.
BingoBoingo: What? Yesterday was up.
mircea_popescu: well yesterday we shoulda hired someone.
bounce: buncha slackers
mircea_popescu: i wonder how would a site worked on that principle go. "ever day traffic is up, hire someone ; every day traffic is down, fire someone"
mircea_popescu: sorta like ford only faster.
mircea_popescu: undata: mircea_popescu: ^ << nothing was said publicly on this topic.
BingoBoingo: I think that's how you make an Edsel
mircea_popescu: undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time <<< what are you, new ?
BingoBoingo: Apparently ben fox has a neighbor
mircea_popescu: undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects <<< there is. you're watching it. just because leadership is not in your face doesn't necessarily mean leadership is absent and it's your time to shine. it may also mean leadership is extremely good at what it does.
mircea_popescu: who's ben fox ?
BingoBoingo: Vulpes
mircea_popescu: oh oh wow missed that one.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's the hottie gf of his wife ?
BingoBoingo: I thought this is why alf patch series was named chicken
mircea_popescu: dude incredible how much subtext i miss. and i do read the logs!
BingoBoingo: I know
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't remember, is edsel a car or a bad cheesecake brand ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Twas a Ford spinoff, focused on "affordable" cars
mircea_popescu: my facetious question ;/
mircea_popescu: hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things.
dignork: jurov: I've figured webmail got my signed message scrambled with html?
bounce likes an absence of smoking and ashtrays better
mircea_popescu: you actually mind smoke ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. << Wait this thing I've been doing forever is unusual? I always wash the ashtrays at least weekly
mircea_popescu: *: BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype << my hope is that in the 2020s. but i've been off before by an xmas or two.
BingoBoingo: Prolly best to talk about these things in terms of reward halvings rather than xmas's.
bounce: once had a job contract that forbade me from minding smoke. but at home I very much prefer no smoking at all.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo a couple, hopefully not a dozen.
mircea_popescu: bounce i don't care either way. maybe i;m the only person left i guess.
BingoBoingo: bounce: How do you become functional in the morning without coffee and cigarettes? Gotta mix your stims.
mircea_popescu: the us "debate", an engine wasting time and paper while going from unpolarized to polarized.
bounce: how? just like erryday
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he has a point there, this "need coffee to wake up" thing is nonsense. i know this experimentally.
BingoBoingo: What, you just carry your hangovers until they fade away on their own?
mircea_popescu: i never drink again anything that gives me a hangover.
mircea_popescu: emergency acute cure is "moare de varza" however.
mircea_popescu: ;;google "moare de varza"
gribble: Zeama de varza: <>; Varza murata | Gradina visata: <>; Reteta Varza Calita - Traditional romanian cabbage stew - YouTube: <>
mircea_popescu: basically kimchi juice.
bounce: rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol
BingoBoingo: <bounce> rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol << What's the point of drinking if you un-drunk yourself so soon?
mircea_popescu: "do you wanna be able to get it out or do you wanna not be able to get it out ?"
BingoBoingo: What else is practice for? Some people pull trucks with their teeth. Some people practice other feats of physical performance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: me - i don't want jsonism in my book. << anything actually solidified in your head as to what you actually want ? sigs, really ?
bounce: printable text that can nonetheless be verified. that'd be interesting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: but now i don't see this thing as going anywhere << what, srlsy ?
bounce would add 2d barcodes (QR or something) for the sigantures
mats_cd03: someone once told me life is too short to avoid hangovers
mircea_popescu: it's going, it's going, don't blame the relative fixed position of mountains on the ass derping in the road.
bounce: s/gan/gna/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's going << i did specify hoping that i was wrong about this.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: classic russian fatalism <<< aaaaaaaahahaha, how do you know this ?
mircea_popescu: and was her name katja or natasha ?
mircea_popescu: tanya...
asciilifeform: !s sword hero
undata: mircea_popescu: I think you missed the point of my comment on open source, which was in response to "how will we ever finish the deturdification"
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone taking bets on the name of the chick that informed mr fox as to the intricacies of the russian soul ?
asciilifeform: chicken << comes from recipe, attributed to the old gypsies: 'first, steal the chicken.'
mircea_popescu: undata that's possible.
undata: by assigning tasks and chipping away, that's how, and by brutally criticizing contributions
undata: I get offended to my core when someone says "can't be done, lets give up"
mircea_popescu: undata then again, mayhap you missed my point.
undata: and I think I misintepreted people when hearing that
asciilifeform did not say 'give up.' said: buy a man
mircea_popescu: possibly. buncha trolls here see ?
undata: asciilifeform: yep addressed
mircea_popescu: trolling for a reaction out of noobs.
asciilifeform specifically did not say 'buy me.'
asciilifeform knows of maxint folks cheaper and stronger
mircea_popescu: I WAS SAVING UP
mircea_popescu: now lyf is devoid of ultimate significance, i will give up on lyfing!
asciilifeform old lyfer
mircea_popescu: topic is now knives.
asciilifeform: folsom!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ comment
mircea_popescu: and tear tatoos.
BingoBoingo: Anyone want a pdf of the Folsom book?
mircea_popescu: ;;google cash folsom prison
asciilifeform: (book, not tattoo)
gribble: At Folsom Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Folsom Prison Blues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues - YouTube: <>
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The "drill" in the book is fun.
BingoBoingo: Relaxing
asciilifeform dreamt, recently, that he had a knife teacher
BingoBoingo: Make dummie, savage dummy, imagine doing it better, reassemble dummie, repeat
asciilifeform: a grizzled old bugger
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "how to defend yourself against the banana fiend" ?
asciilifeform: !s banana fiend
bounce: .oO( is this automutilation or just autotrolling? )
mircea_popescu: ;;google monty python how to defend yourself banana fiend
gribble: Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube: <>; Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Monty Python's Flying Circus: Just the Words - Episode 4: <>
asciilifeform knows of no effective defense against banana
mircea_popescu: hah! first, you eat the banana, thus disarming him.
undata: mircea_popescu: I can take a trolling; my response was to ignore it
mircea_popescu: undata anyway, get the current code, build it and see what happens.
mircea_popescu: especially if it passes the magical block
mircea_popescu: for all we fucking know atm, bitcoin hardforked in march 2013 and nobody noticed.
undata: mircea_popescu: built and patched; will fiddle more later
bounce: can you self-defend against wookies?
undata hooks a drive up to begin blockchain slurp
BingoBoingo: bounce: Did you not read the first time it was linked?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud << this is never going to happen on the current db (bdb) because it's a pos, and if the computer fails unexpectedly it messes up the state.
mircea_popescu: nothing to do with bitcoin, well documented bdb issue.
asciilifeform did say he suspected
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: can't say as i recall, the impression was formed over the course of 3 raves in quarries in the depths of oregon forests over my sixteenth summer.
mircea_popescu: actually, it's perhaps not premature to start the subscription list of everyone's favourite db solution
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the most important, momentuous architectura decision
ben_vulpes: lots of russians in the area.
mircea_popescu: and it needs all the weighin it can get
ben_vulpes: the gangsters live in vancouver
asciilifeform: snapshot.
asciilifeform: for heroes.
bounce: courts tend to frown on defendants wielding fairbarn-sykes knives in session
ben_vulpes: the religious ones in salem.
ben_vulpes: 'tis odd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this looks like fucking advanced heroes of might and magic over here. barons, lords, heroes, dragons
mircea_popescu: WE GOT IT ALL
undata: asciilifeform: that's with the two patches, or something new?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: merging!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was gonna use own db. for eventual transition to raw block device.
asciilifeform: for metal port.
asciilifeform: vita brevis.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform like what you mean, tape ?
BingoBoingo: bounce: But it is a historical artifact which sits on collectible display next to bed.
asciilifeform: addressable block device.
asciilifeform: as in, 'bitcoinfs.'
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a perfectly acceptable alternative : modular db, clearly documented bitcoin hooks, write-your-own-1klines or less api for anything.
asciilifeform: as in, it deserves to be treated as own fs.
BingoBoingo: Sheer coincidence I reached for Fairbairn Sykes and not Chris Carpenter Bobblehead
asciilifeform: with the two patches << with all of my patches so far.
mircea_popescu: there IS some significant ops advantage to not running any one stock db.
asciilifeform: there was some grumbling that i didn't post an auto-zapper that turns 0.5.3 into the hash manifest in 'chicken'
asciilifeform: so here's my total merge.
asciilifeform: does not include bdb lock tweak suggested by mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: (who wants - can make)
mircea_popescu: that's unavoidable, otherwise thing won't pass into 2014.
mircea_popescu: on the blkchain i mean
bounce: fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic?
asciilifeform: modular db << sounds pleasurable, but this requires massive re-engineering of satoshi's turd.
asciilifeform: almost rewrite.
mircea_popescu: if you think satoshi's stuff can not be refactored to the point of rewriting, you're living inside a candy globe.
BingoBoingo: bounce> fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic? << Not in case, on nightstand. Made of whatever wartime shitiron England was using.
mircea_popescu: it really is that bad, like old man beard.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4883 @ 0.00080436 = 3.9277 BTC [+]
asciilifeform fesses up that he started a rewrite - before starting correspondence and unrelated project with mircea_popescu
asciilifeform in common lisp of course
ben_vulpes: pahaha.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: but that's slow
ben_vulpes: b-b-b-b-bash buster!
asciilifeform: my cl often runs 1.5x or so of naive 'c'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: just getting rid of boost is going to entail that.
mircea_popescu: anyone here know bishibosh ?
asciilifeform: because good native compiler.
asciilifeform: and annotations.
ben_vulpes: note that asciilifeform says "my cl".
asciilifeform: 'my' is not mine alone, is common as dirt sbcl
mircea_popescu: good lord, he wants to rewrite cl as part of rewriting bitcoin
ben_vulpes: code quality and performance is highly dependent on author, skills.
asciilifeform has private fork of sbcl, it has nothing to do with this
asciilifeform: dance quality depends on dancer, yes, news at 11
ben_vulpes is entirely unsurprised.
mircea_popescu: so the plan is, a) make new processor file as ascii art in emacs
mircea_popescu: 3) profit ?
asciilifeform: obligatory sp4mz0r1ng - << gadget runs entirely sbcl
assbot: MolBox LLC
mircea_popescu: this sounds familiar.
asciilifeform: my ancient gadget.
asciilifeform: golden toilet driver.
asciilifeform: ~6k lines of cl.
mats_cd03: << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle
assbot: US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot
asciilifeform: linked gadget runs on top of pedestrian gentoo on pedestrian x86.
BingoBoingo: <mats_cd03> << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle << Seems to be the only way justifiable from a self defense standpoint
asciilifeform: - end of sp4mz0r1ng -
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 i think that only works on floor-shy victims neh ?
BingoBoingo: But heart is a hard target
BingoBoingo: literally, ribs
undata: BingoBoingo: probably hence the 45
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: so he can go to forest and see if it's broken << lawl.
mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: yeah, victim could get on their back as a defense
mircea_popescu: victim could go down, take your feet from under you, have you fall on your own knife.
mircea_popescu: (you have a lot of forward mommentum running for the 22 feet in 2 s)
BingoBoingo: undata: Well you also have to consider, anatomically that mean focusing on their left side and trying to slot in between just the right ribs, vs left side just hitting anything open and soft hoping for the abdominal aorta
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00080248 = 10.673 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (rampant memory leakage is not 'works') << it's not rampant. more like a calender than a ruptured pipe. it... sweats memory :D
ben_vulpes watches lispy robot video
ben_vulpes misses working with robots
assbot: Нож против пистолета. Реальная эффективность клинка на к... — смотреть онлайн видео, бесплатно!
asciilifeform: 'knife against pistol. actual effectiveness of blade'
asciilifeform not specialist
mircea_popescu: bounce: did I get that about right? << "that bitcoin thing, aka some fiat nonsense trying to call itself bitcoin", rather than "this bitcoin thing" :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta love how it's "pistolette" in russian.
bounce: plenty people falling for the ruse though
bounce wonders what this executive chief sellout thinks of that open letter posted by a member on their own forum
mircea_popescu: cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin << tell us your pain brothar. we're the relationship support cult, among other things.
BingoBoingo suspects Matonis actually despises the monster he helped nurture
mircea_popescu: bounce not his job to think.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he goes through phases.
BingoBoingo: Most people do, so has he had his period yet, or is he mourning starfish virginity?
asciilifeform: starfish period.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo originally he was all excited about derpfoundation. back then we were on speaking terms, so i told him he's nuts. he thought i was nuts. then he got all unexcited, and left. then he came back. now he's leaving.
BingoBoingo: Seems to happen to a lot of the 2011-2012 Americans
mircea_popescu: you might remember all the huge tada in 2013 re putting a bunch of derps on the "press list" and excluding matonis, on the grounds that the derps were well versed in things from wikipedia practice or something
BingoBoingo: I remember
ben_vulpes: what the ever loving fuck is a press list and--nevermind.
asciilifeform: a press list...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got it. about the time i threw my hands up too.
asciilifeform: ... is a list of people who are to be pressed to death.
asciilifeform: !s kill file
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Twas the list the Foundation herded Journos towards
asciilifeform: peine forte et dure.
mircea_popescu: PeterL: why would they do that? <<< because they're business school majors, and this means social studies, and this means they don't understand that words carry meaning.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00080436 = 3.7001 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: ahhhh holy shit you guys i just bought a flipphone
ben_vulpes: prepaid minutes
ben_vulpes: it's got t9
ben_vulpes: I STILL GOT IT BABY
ben_vulpes: hammering out texts without even looking at the keypad
asciilifeform: how is this remarkable ?
mircea_popescu: assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept <<< what they don't want to say is teh real scoop - "people heard about the qntra model and it killed anyone's will to life i nany competing project."
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Who here prefers other phones?
mircea_popescu: samsung, too cheap to even justify the paint to put a model number on it.
bounce: nokia 6310. needs new battery.
BingoBoingo: Seriously wireless cheapass cellphone, because what else is it for?
ben_vulpes: guys quit trollin.
ben_vulpes: i run an ios shop.
ben_vulpes: android too these days.
bounce: no seriously. had an e52 but it sucked so much I went back.
mircea_popescu: ;;google samsung gt ?
gribble: GT-P3110 (GT-P3110TSEBTU) | Support | SAMSUNG UK: <>; GT-E1190 | SAMSUNG UAE: <>; Galaxy S Duos 2 (GT-S7582ZKAMID) | Support | SAMSUNG Levant: <>
ben_vulpes: it's got bluetooth lol
ben_vulpes: dafuq am i going to do with bt
BingoBoingo needs to get a Western Electric for the return of dialup days
assbot: samsung gt-e1205q - Google Search
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes> dafuq am i going to do with bt pop the chip out?
jurov: ^ sadly, never went into rpoduction
ben_vulpes: lg440g
ben_vulpes: that looks downright vaginal jurov
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo lives in town with intact copper ?
mircea_popescu: it does look like pussy, jurov's phone...
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yours ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Indeed. Used to be GTE, then Verizon, now Frontier or muni fiber
kakobrekla: there prolly one or two laying somewhere
kakobrekla: theres*
asciilifeform: not bakelite - not phone.
assbot: Kim Kardashian turns tech guru as she speaks at Recode conference | Daily Mail Online
asciilifeform: bt is actually useful in that, with a certain gizmo, lets you use 'real' phone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00080115 = 1.0415 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: like the soviet one
bounce: the samsung GT-E1107 is kinda cute except that the solar panel feature doesn't actually work very much at all.
bounce: also shittier sound quality than 6310. better battery life though, since newer.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Best video
assbot: BREAKING NEWS: Suspected cop-killer Eric Frein FOUND after leading cops on seven-week manhunt | Daily Mail Online
bounce: seven weeks. does that resolve any bets?
kakobrekla: asciilifeform that phone is quite famous. like model m for keyboards i hear. was designed by some slovenian dude.
asciilifeform: forgot, who
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tube 5 is most important tube
kakobrekla: >It has been over 30 years since the distinguished Slovenian designer Davorin Savnik designed an Electronic Telephone Apparatus (ETA) 85 for Iskra. Beside the fact that it won numerous awards for design and that you can still see the phone being used today, the design got stolen and was a big hit in USA.
mircea_popescu: pretty cool
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit. <<< really, it's just a lot more inconsistent. meaning the scary stories are TRUELY scary.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing us management has going for it generally is consistency anyway.
BingoBoingo: Which is broken when it comes to punishment
mircea_popescu: consistency has its own sort of hell, so it all depends.
mircea_popescu: ;;google jennifer aniston in that retarded film with the flares
gribble: Jennifer Aniston said 'retard' and now everyone is mad at her: <>; IMDb: Video disc collection - a list by Alan Poon: <>; 2011 Movie Preview - Collider: <>
undata: how many years will I be waiting for a blockchain
asciilifeform: undata: mine went for ~8 hours until croaked.
BingoBoingo: undata: We don't measure time here with years. We use halvings and blockdepth
asciilifeform: your result will depend, at the least, on bandwidth.
undata: asciilifeform: I'll keep logs
ben_vulpes: and if unpatched - 0.5.3 will wedge at some large block.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a good look as to specifically w
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 18:53:30; assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
mircea_popescu: WHY it wedges where is already gravy for our little project here.,
ben_vulpes: ah - asciilifeform which block number?
ben_vulpes: ah ty
mircea_popescu: << this chick;s career is really fucking sad.
assbot: Jennifer Aniston - IMDb
ben_vulpes: my 0.5.3 is down because xcode is a resource hog
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was gonna toss the toy os
asciilifeform wants no #ifdefs in book
asciilifeform could stomach if necessary for openbsd
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you're not serious if you don't put #ifdef book : turn page on the cover.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: toss toss
ben_vulpes: i run litecoin (tee hee) in vm.
mircea_popescu: Terrible Operating System System ?
ben_vulpes: is not buildable on TOYOS
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Her career is sad because of the Sitcom curse. If one successfully does TV, the best they can hope for is to do Windows ads with Bill Gates as Seinfeld did.
asciilifeform has no idea who this is, but knows how gorbachev ended with 'pizza hut.'
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: needs endif on rear cover
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah looks like an inverted porn career. chick turns 17 and 11 months, does 170 featurs that year, then 50 the next and then 2 a year to pay rent til 65.
ben_vulpes: now this is an oddity
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pretty much how it goes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform she's the sorta-fuckable cali blonde that tits-and-assgelina jolie massacred to get the mimbo at the time
BingoBoingo: On the plus side though B movies have never been this profitable ever in history thanks to netflix
mircea_popescu: i forget who his name is. played flock of seagulls in true romance
asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter
BingoBoingo: Ben Affleck, next Batman
ben_vulpes: 252448 is 243.23046875 KB according to
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter << Titless IRL Laura Croft
ben_vulpes: and 252450 243.0712890625 KB ibid
asciilifeform: incidentally, turd exhausts ram even if left to suffer in its attempt to fetch blocks
ben_vulpes is desperate to see logs from that block, but must run own self.
asciilifeform deliberately did not yet post debug.log, to encourage folks to run on their own
ben_vulpes: oh i can tell
ben_vulpes: dickhead
ben_vulpes: t9 is a lost technology like lisp.
asciilifeform shoves crate of phones with t9
asciilifeform: some 'lost.'
assbot: Say Something Nice About systemd - Slashdot
ben_vulpes: kiddo to my right laughed at me when i started texting lady v - "how are you even going to -- whoaaaaa."
asciilifeform: somebody wake up diametric
asciilifeform: he likes systemd i think
BingoBoingo: Prolly Harry Poettering himself
mircea_popescu: he's not gonna pull a pankkake on us over it is he ?
asciilifeform: nah i think it enables laziness somehow
mircea_popescu: somehow ? how about "can't read the system logs no more!"
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
asciilifeform: he has something grunted together that works almost like real computer
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: what the fuck.
nubbins`: hahahah
asciilifeform: no idea how, when he wakes up perhaps will say
nubbins`: there are larger blocks than 252448 before it
mircea_popescu: nubbins` which one is obama ?
mircea_popescu: i give up ?
asciilifeform: i suspect, though cannot say for certain, that there is nothing magic about 252448
assbot: Bitcoin Block #252445
asciilifeform: and that db caught obola at some point because ram exhausted
nubbins`: ^ 252445, >340kb
asciilifeform: and never recovered
nubbins`: yeah i've suffered a couple chokes here but seems to be still downloading blocks
nubbins`: currently at 155369
mircea_popescu: well the b onus of leaking software is that it's guaranteed to act impredictably at least some of the time
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also remember that there is no deterministic test of bitcoind, nor can there be
asciilifeform: except, possibly, an elaborate network sim
asciilifeform: this has been done
ben_vulpes: this is actually a thing that i am working on.
asciilifeform: when i was dabbling in '07 with my not-bitcoin-that-shall-not-be-spoken-of - i used one.
mircea_popescu: of the whole thing ? no. of parts of the whole thing ?
asciilifeform: parts - yes.
mircea_popescu: this'd seem a part.
ben_vulpes: not being cpp competent, a useful thing for me to do is write a bash btc harness that points bitcoinds at each other for mining, tx validation, broadcast, etc.
ben_vulpes: harkens back to my work with robots at one point.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this will not test behaviour with ill-behaved nodes.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: do I need to ban you from the wiki, or will you respect alphabetical order on the Gambling list from now on?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller listen, you ever got that cookieshop thing off the ground ? actually deliering ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this *can* test behavior with ill-behaved nodes.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes. but you have to create the ill-behaved nodes.
ben_vulpes: what, am i to expect my test harness to sprout warts spontaneously?
asciilifeform: have to simulate various classes of evil node
ben_vulpes: i know that i'm a barbarian but i'm more of a Sven than a Hulk.
asciilifeform: and hope you've imagined all possible universes.
ben_vulpes: clearly impossible.
asciilifeform: or - realize that testing doesn't actually work.
ben_vulpes: what is "work"
ben_vulpes: testing answers specific questions.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: People still use wiki?
ben_vulpes: in the notion of testing with which I am familiar at least.
ben_vulpes: what these software cultists do -- has no bearing.
ben_vulpes: test, collect data, cogitate.
ben_vulpes: repeat.
ben_vulpes: this is an arduous process.
ben_vulpes: as your robot attests to.
nubbins`: there's a wiki?
undata: there's something beautiful about downloading the blockchain
mircea_popescu: will kako's trolling wonders never cease ?
nubbins`: undata o.O
undata: sitting back while history replays at high speed
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: The thing Gox turned over to Thermos
nubbins`: y'know, i've got a newspaper for sale...
ben_vulpes: > 36983pankkake13luke-jr2014-10-20 18:03:571Technically competent
nubbins`: BingoBoingo, i kid ;/
asciilifeform: i had it scroll to terminal for a spell
asciilifeform: and thought various thoughts.
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr ah didnt know it was alphabetical. i thought dicks come first.
asciilifeform: 'aha, block xxxxx, this is when i tried mining on fpga'
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr will respect you authoritah on the wiki.
undata: nubbins`: a global permanent record of anything you like; your newspaper can suck it.
asciilifeform: 'this here's the block where i stuffed $redacted'
ben_vulpes: undata: tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
undata: ben_vulpes: am!
asciilifeform: 'and this here's where $alsoredacted lives'
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Sounds like you need a domain redirecting to BitBet such as
kakobrekla: lets when
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you're the guy that put child pronz in the block ?
mircea_popescu: what could be better.
mircea_popescu: bureaucrat pronz ?
asciilifeform: 'the secret of being a bore is to tell all'
nubbins`: insurance.aes
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00080104 = 4.0453 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ?
mircea_popescu: hey, good predictive power in your semantic structure.
asciilifeform not specialist
asciilifeform: blame voltaire, he, afaik, coughed that one up
mircea_popescu: the secret to being a store is to keep all...
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ? << No, secret to being a whore is to be firm on prices.
mircea_popescu: the secret to being a core is to leak all...
undata: the secret to being a whore is to fuck all
nubbins`: leak all the memories
BingoBoingo: Well, yeah, core memory is super tempestable
asciilifeform: the secret of being a war...
mircea_popescu: r-r-r-r-rhymebreaker!
asciilifeform: my grandfather worked on a hydraulic computer. memory literally leaked.
mircea_popescu: not through software fault
asciilifeform: hard to be certain
BingoBoingo: Hardware breaks first!
mircea_popescu: lol that hard :D
assbot: The Russian Computer That Ran On Water
asciilifeform: no. smaller thing, his own
asciilifeform: not historically notable, afaik.
mircea_popescu: "also ran on beer"
nubbins`: i made cheese beer bread today
nubbins`: so yum
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00080197 = 8.6212 BTC [+] {2}
undata: mircea_popescu: regarding db, would you loathe sqlite?
undata: those can get pretty massive and still do well
asciilifeform: undata: i'd like zero library deps.
mircea_popescu: undata i wouldn't loathe anything
mircea_popescu: it's all the other haters one gotta worry about
BingoBoingo: Bitcoin's not going anywhere, if you are going to introduce a dependency for storage why not just leap to ZFS?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo asciilifeform was talking of a whole fs.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: thanks
asciilifeform: result should be ROMable on a 486.
undata: well, you'll otherwise reinvent acid and whatnot yourself
undata: which is fine
undata: but that should be the goal then
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: anything we can do to make it clearer? there should have been a comment at the top explaining
mircea_popescu: now the advantage to an actual fs is that since you know your blocks wil be 1mb tops, you can actually make the sectors 1mb size.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has his thinking helmet on!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually i just had my finger in the right cunt.
nubbins`: right on
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr maybe its just common sense, that i lack of.
asciilifeform: also wurks.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: heh, well, the whole reason for that policy was because people kept fighting over order/positioning on that page XD
mircea_popescu: tho honestly i am not convinced a fs is less work than a byodb hook
mircea_popescu: maybe much sexier, i dunno.
asciilifeform: it isn't less.
nubbins`: running stock 0.5.3 is less work ;)
asciilifeform: yes, because doesn't work.
BingoBoingo: FFS can take you up to 2 TB
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr let us fight. we will see who the better coder is.
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr from experince, nothing short of a site random display will solv that problem
kakobrekla: anyway, brb
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: O.o
mircea_popescu: people will start registering 1something domains link them to their main site
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: well, that's why we go based on the main site name, not the domain
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu let them do 1. ill start with 0.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
kakobrekla: so we rename bitbet to 0bet
nubbins`: A-1 Betting Inc.
Luke-Jr: randomising might work if that gets abused, but that takes effort
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr i'd think randomising entries less effort than policing "main domain name" rules, but anyway, no idea wtf this even is so.
asciilifeform read that useless piece re: herr omidyar, kept waiting for it to mention his specialty as no. 1 hoarder and withholder of snowden turd. then saw that article is by 'greenwald, poitras, ...'
mircea_popescu: dun mind me.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. encouraging how clearly you can see right through their bs.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If it were only a management dispute why would I link it?
mircea_popescu: apparently one doesn't need a politix degree.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a retarded 5yo can see clean through it
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's my expectation of 5yos, yes, but recently they make broken ones or something.
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr good call! :)
asciilifeform: modern world amazes with its ability to manufacture broken.
asciilifeform: !s flashlight crash
assbot: Extension:Random - MediaWiki
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00079632 = 2.9464 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: how else were they supposed to hotfix it later?
undata: asciilifeform: though there's the risk of a bad flash
asciilifeform: undata: afaik it was a mask rom.
undata: then my joke is dead to me
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: crab bus << reminds me of my consulting partner's tale of the rat temple in his home town
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course you realise with 1mb sectors the current size of the charade would be 30+ gb.
mircea_popescu: ie, 3x what it is.
asciilifeform: they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit
assbot: For Capitalism! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: 30+gb << 40gB was the turd upon croaking
asciilifeform: that is, with 2/3 finished blockchain
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit << What, no warfarin in the milk?
asciilifeform: rats - holy.
BingoBoingo: But dumber than mice
BingoBoingo: Though more organized
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i missed a zero baby.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 327763 / 1024
gribble: 320.081054688
asciilifeform: disk longa, vita brevis
mircea_popescu: it'll be a tough sell.
asciilifeform: can compress below fs layer, realize
asciilifeform: a la 'doublespace.'
asciilifeform: if only basic rll
asciilifeform: (run length encode)
asciilifeform: no need to ever store a mb of zero
mircea_popescu: if anyone is a hdd afficionado, do some math as to what gain in speed justifies a 5x gain in file size ? at current and/or historical price per speed and price per size.
asciilifeform: again, compress.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you compress below fs layer then the fixed blocks thing is kinda a meh idea.
asciilifeform: sufficiently smart fs will compact runs.
mircea_popescu: do you even have a candidate for pillaging in mind or wtf fs is even trustworthy
asciilifeform: when i said fs,
asciilifeform: meant - fs crafted for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: what, all new code ?
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: rewriting bitcoin is one thing. writing a new fs is a fucking dumb idea.
asciilifeform: blockchain gets a block device.
BingoBoingo: What's wrong with FFS? ... In one of its hundreds of incarnations...
mircea_popescu: there is no way you can do anything novel and useful in terms of fs.
mircea_popescu: either one or the other. not both.
asciilifeform: existing fs are built to be 'all things to all people'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00079592 = 4.1388 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what, only support s.nsa produced hard drives ?
asciilifeform: just, normal lba drives.
mircea_popescu: so who are you going to steal the hardware drivers from
asciilifeform: what drivers.
mircea_popescu: maybe i don't iunderstand what you mean by "make own fs" and "bare metal" in that order.
asciilifeform: if we're talking about a metal port, i'd use my pio hdd driver (about 1k asm)
asciilifeform: works on every machine i own.
asciilifeform: a purist - can use x86 bios 'int 13' block routine. (slower)
asciilifeform: if we're talking about a humbler turd that runs on unix, it'd take /dev/sdwhateverthefuck'
asciilifeform: and crap directly therein.
mircea_popescu is in over his head in this discussion.
asciilifeform: ('metal port' being a hypothetical 'bitcoind' that boots up as x86 os)
asciilifeform: ('pio' - programmed i/o, mode of using standard 'ata' without dma. used by simple schoolboy operating systems for x86)
asciilifeform: ('int 13' - traditional x86 bios interrupt function which exists to this day, used by most os boot loaders to fetch kernel from disk)
asciilifeform: controller-agnostic.
asciilifeform: /dev/sdX - raw block device present on all unix systems, represents a block device - e.g., hard disk - as a sequence of blocks of N (usually 512) bytes
asciilifeform: on ancient boxes with parallel 'ata' - /dev/hdX
BingoBoingo will now drop that has been seeking russian speakers to operate "PC 9000" hard drive firmaware tool since I part timed there in 2004.
assbot: About |
asciilifeform: even now?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers
BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka
BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd
assbot: [ASM (NASM)] int 13 -
assbot: US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: is that a good thing ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: remember the fella who booted linux on dead 'seagate' pcbs ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik he did it by reversing ye olde 'pc 9000'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bad thing
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I do indeed
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: seeking russian speakers to operate << srsly, operate, not translate ?
asciilifeform: << non-obligatory, but goes with the theme
assbot: Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off.
asciilifeform: (theme of block devices...)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy
asciilifeform: probably began by driving ancient hdd 'voice coils' directly with his amps...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology
asciilifeform: she must've cleaned the last throne with eyes.
mircea_popescu: 1k eyeballs right ?
nubbins`: downloading the blockchain is slooooow.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: The indexing is slower.
nubbins`: i'll bet
nubbins`: running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it?
nubbins`: i've got a paltry gb allocated now
asciilifeform: << with english translation in 'show more' box
assbot: 17 Moments of Spring - Gde-To Daleko (Somewhere Far Away) HQ - YouTube
asciilifeform: (re: 'go into forest')
dignork: nubbins`: btw if you're trying to boot the 0.5.3 version, try the -testnet first, the db is smaller, and it's supposed to contain borderline crazy transactions
mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: i retched
nubbins`: dignork thanks, good tip
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00079905 = 8.1503 BTC [+]
dignork: nubbins`: I cowrdly take this back: current testnet is a 3rd chain - I think genesis block was switched, but not sure when exactly, so 0.5.3 might have an old genesis block :(
nubbins`: no sweat
dignork: yup, no dice: - "Testnet3 is the current test network. It was introduced with the 0.7 release, introduced a third genesis block..."
assbot: Testnet - Bitcoin
assbot: Butnskala - Lisice - YouTube
kakobrekla: (relevant to ebola)
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Also Futbol Americano
BingoBoingo: Going off of the concusion leap
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it? <<< yes, up to 16gb markedly helps
BingoBoingo: So I'm pricing used workstations. All of the opteron based stuff in the past 6 years is pretty equivalent, yes?
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kakobrekla: 10 pack lol
BingoBoingo: I know!
BingoBoingo: I could start a university computer lab with that shit
BingoBoingo: Right after I buy/conquer a university
mod6: the fs idea is sexy, and indeed ufs2 w/soft updates would be probably best, which is default for everything post fbsd 5 iirc.
mats_cd03: BingoBoingo: youre tempting me to buy a workstation of my own
mod6: but sounds like we're getting into RE-ENGINEER ALL THE THINGS if we start to not trust whatever is already out there
mats_cd03 browses craigslist
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: I have wanted ECC ram for about a decade now, but never pulled the trigger on it
mats_cd03: i was under the impression most motherboards support ECC and non-ECC
asciilifeform: mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device.
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: From what I understand ECC is still a luxury sold to the discerning which the "cloud" is trying to handwave over
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: no
asciilifeform: ecc with amd cpu - almost impossible to obtain now. ecc on intel - on high-end 'xeon' boards.
mod6: asciilifeform: perhaps. i worry that we're all of the sudden going to fork *bsd and make mpexos
BingoBoingo: mod6: I prefer the term Stanix
mod6: heheh
mod6: not bad :]
BingoBoingo: Now that people are finally reading GNU utils I imagine split will be from OpenBSD 5.X -current
asciilifeform innocent of ab initio unixen, other than as school homework
asciilifeform would like to stay that way
BingoBoingo: Well, real Unix exists... in Textbooks
mod6: do you mean 'real' as in systemv?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Real as in... before system*
asciilifeform downed pilot not worm connoisseur
BingoBoingo: back when it was version*
asciilifeform swears by 'unix hater's handbook'
BingoBoingo has several coppies
BingoBoingo: My domicile was slow rolled by the local 5-0 about half an our ago so mzt misssspelt words
asciilifeform had to look up most of above to make any sense
mod6: so, since we're talking about it, what would be the most idea env for such a reference implentation? a fully stripped openbsd with a custom fs & drivers?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00079592 = 13.0786 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo really wants the disorderly conduct case to fucking end
BingoBoingo: mod6: OpenBSD on its own is prolly hostile enough to dev in
asciilifeform: mod6: custom fs doesn't require an os-level turd, just a raw block device that the process is permitted to r/w.
mod6: s/openbsd/*bsd
asciilifeform: mod6: idea being, among other merits, that in the future shedding the os entirely will be considerably easier.
mod6: so you wouldn't say, want to strip kern mods out or whatever?
mod6: what about wintel eth drivers?
asciilifeform: that's a separate work
mod6: what about like 69000 other things?
asciilifeform: what other things?
BingoBoingo: What ken mods? OpenBSD offers two kernels bsd and, if you want more fuck you
asciilifeform: the only devices a hypothetical bitcoin x86 os needs to comprehend is disk and nic
asciilifeform: disk - see example posted earlier (< 1 kb asm)
mod6: eh..nm
asciilifeform: nic - similar. see example in 'bare metal os' (bsd license, iirc)
asciilifeform just wanted a fucking book
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Problem is book has wants too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00079592 = 5.7306 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'first the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes the man'
BingoBoingo: Indeeds
BingoBoingo: Prolly universal
asciilifeform: one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) seems to comprehend is that bitcoin is, what old timers call - 'safety critical code'
asciilifeform: as in, would you want a multithreaded os like unix on, e.g., pacemaker ?
asciilifeform: safety critical means not always death, but wors
BingoBoingo: Actually... in cariac replacement parts, mechanical failures tend to kill first.
asciilifeform: like, your whole reich goes down
BingoBoingo: like dad's brave little plastic aortic valve
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