(trilema) BingoBoingo: I think I'm going to stop reading the "Phenomenology of Spirit". I didn't get sober to import the mental version of systemd.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: this is in fact how it works : we, aim to V the original lispworld. scum - aims to systemd wikipedia.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: he's 2nd generation scum, aims to systemd the original scum.
(trilema) assbot: Mount efivarfs read-only · Issue #2402 · systemd/systemd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsPAVX )
(trilema) BingoBoingo: lol, the Tor 'Tails' distro switched to systemd now
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and so what, we're officially targetting "anything that's unix post bsd pre systemd" ?
(trilema) ascii_butugychag: would have happily carried on not knowing about systemd also, if had not..... etc
(trilema) shinohai: systemd is a turd fr though
(trilema) thestringpuller: pretty sure pankakke bailed on #b-a cause of systemd shit-talking
(trilema) thestringpuller: jessie uses systemd by default iirc
(trilema) BingoBoingo: systemd
(trilema) thestringpuller: "Since 0.11B we have added systemd init scripts to make sure that the node will be started and auto-restarted if you reboot. The systemd bitcoinxtd.service registers the XT based daemon for autostart."
(trilema) BingoBoingo: All things considered the only safe assumption is the San Fransisco County Sheriff's being on team systemd
(trilema) mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i wonder if this has anything to do with the ongoing systemd-ization of foss.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: assbot:BUS1: A New Linux Kernel IPC Bus Being Made By Systemd Developers - Phoronix <<< ahahaha mkay.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: "BUS1 isn't being developed by just some unknown individuals, but systemd developer David Herrmann and Kay Sievers seem to be the lead (and only) developers working on it thus far."
(trilema) assbot: BUS1: A New Linux Kernel IPC Bus Being Made By Systemd Developers - Phoronix ... ( http://bit.ly/1jYSZgu )
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'dbus', 'kernel systemd', and other filth will be insta-merged in (or rather, usg's pre-readied fork becomes 'blessed')
(trilema) mircea_popescu: what, you think systemd happened in a vacuum ?
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 01-11-2015 09:08:23; deedbot-: [Qntra] Busybox Drops systemd Support - http://qntra.net/2015/11/busybox-drops-systemd-support/
(trilema) ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-11-2015#1313057 << afaik it never worked to begin with (not even in the miserable sense that systemd 'worked' elsewhere)
(trilema) mircea_popescu: also, the field data suggests that contrary to everyone's worst nightmares, systemd will actually eventually fail, like the rest of similar attempts.
(trilema) deedbot-: [Qntra] Busybox Drops systemd Support - http://qntra.net/2015/11/busybox-drops-systemd-support/
(trilema) asciilifeform: aaand then we get to where they put modern systemdized linux on the thing, etc.
(trilema) ascii_field: weird chip (similar to pogo) for which the only available os was a systemdized linuxlike
(trilema) ascii_field: phun phakt: systemd HARD FREEZES a box with no chance of recovery if it runs into just about ANY issue at boot time.
(trilema) jurov: to think that ibm pc was universally reviled like today systemd
(trilema) ascii_field: '"He is a recipient of the Free Software Award from the Free Software Foundation for his work on Secure Boot, UEFI, and the Linux kernel". Ah! All the bits that I *don't* want in the kernel. Did he work on systemd too?'
(trilema) BingoBoingo: punkman: Seems like motive enough for the NSA to do the systemd turd
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 21-09-2015 16:49:58; ascii_field: '%g is the application system, currently %gall (1300 lines) %gall is half process table and half systemd, sort of.' << satan preserve us.
(trilema) ascii_field: '%g is the application system, currently %gall (1300 lines) %gall is half process table and half systemd, sort of.' << satan preserve us.
(trilema) thestringpuller: sounds like something those anti-systemd forkers of debian would get behind
(trilema) trinque: asciilifeform: yep, don't need pulseaudio for sound (even with mixing!), don't need networkmanager for internet connection (even wifi!), don't need systemd... dont need...
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 07:16:33; trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in
(trilema) asciilifeform: complete with systemd-in-silicon
(trilema) mircea_popescu: systemd BOOTS FASTER!!111
(trilema) assbot: boot - Systemd is really slow in comparison to upstart - Ask Ubuntu ... ( http://bit.ly/1UnVrZK )
(trilema) punkman: http://askubuntu.com/questions/665359/systemd-is-really-slow-in-comparison-to-upstart
(trilema) trinque: well hell, that CoreOS (which is a breeding ground for systemd nonsense) has etcd
(trilema) punkman: when is pulseaudio getting merged in systemd
(trilema) punkman: "Next up: Systemd replaces “confusing” unix ls command with new and clean filectl command."
(trilema) mircea_popescu: ahahaha systemd now su's ?
(trilema) assbot: Lennart Poettering merged “su” command replacement into systemd: Test Drive on Fedora Rawhide | The Linux Homefront Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1EwE871 )
(trilema) thestringpuller: "Processing triggers for systemd" << i throw up when I see this at work
(trilema) asciilifeform: turns out mircea_popescu was right. let's all fly on the first systemd-avionics plane!
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://www.zdnet.com/article/ubuntu-linux-is-coming-to-the-mainframe << complete with systemd!
(trilema) punkman: for future testers http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/systemd/chapter07/locale.html
(trilema) shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230794 <<< agreed, but I'm not giving up. Despite how much I love Debian, systemd is a drawback. :/
(trilema) gernika: Can someone point me to the guide for installing gentoo properly for foundation purposes? Following the default guide and it's got steps for setting up systemd, which clearly I don't want.
(trilema) phf: systemd was really the last nail in the coffin, this stuff was going on for a while, like freedesktop.org which is a open standards body (?) for all the retardation that came out of kde/gnome and "linux on desktop"
(trilema) asciilifeform: about as many as 'systemd'
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Systemdick appologist gets fucked by systemd-ism https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Btrfs-System-Fail-4.2-More
(trilema) mircea_popescu: by the time "systemd" is a word, usg-as-nsa is no longer.
(trilema) punkman: what would be not-meta win for systemd?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: systemd was an utter disaster for 'em.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: <punkman> they must be pleased with systemd results << they are. and mostly on the grounds that they're measuring badly.
(trilema) punkman: they must be pleased with systemd results
(trilema) jurov: say, let's put time.windows.com or google's addy among there and make the occassional packet look like systemd or windows emit
(trilema) decimation: asciilifeform: maybe you can use systemd to boot it
(trilema) mircea_popescu: in fairness systemd was born sort-of like reddit was born : collecting all the scum frothing at the periphery of a culture.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "I don't think that CoreOS registering systemd.pool.ntp.org is the best move. as to me it sounds like @poettering simply doesn't want any end-users to view systemd as some sort of a product providing its own services and, (at least in the minds of some users), being assigned the responsibility for those services or start treating systemd as a separate product, instead of it being an integral part of the distribution
(trilema) assbot: timeX.google.com provide non standard time · Issue #437 · systemd/systemd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1R5MUyh )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/437#issuecomment-117390699 << i mean
(trilema) jurov: incredible, these lennards contortions "but we are not vendor, systemd is not a product"
(trilema) jurov: gavin should ask him to add bitcoin-nxt to systemd. i'm sure reddit would be euphoric beyond measure on that
(trilema) jurov: "No. We don't add configuration options for a thousand different things. This is really not something I want to see in systemd upstream."
(trilema) assbot: timeX.google.com provide non standard time · Issue #437 · systemd/systemd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1dxolrp )
(trilema) jurov: kek https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/437 and related http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-August/022575.html
(trilema) trinque: denying the underlying system like systemd does
(trilema) shinohai: I <3 Debian but the bloated systemd kills me
(trilema) ascii_field: thing is a turd, from the black-box cpu (all 'arm' are builds of opaque licensed blob from uk) to the 'systemd' shit ecosystem that will run on top
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and in between them, systemd.
(trilema) trinque: a few things (pulseaudio, systemd) removed by USE in make.conf
(trilema) mircea_popescu: debian used to work. then it got packaged into ubuntu, and the remainder was shot in the head with systemd crapolade.
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 18-03-2015 19:38:35; mats: another fun fact: you can physically damage XP installations via ACPI parsing and NtSystemDebugControl, entirely in usermode
(trilema) ascii_field: poor schmucks are almost certainly running 'systemd' from the looks of that demo screen
(trilema) mircea_popescu: i dunno, by now linux is windowized enough. they can release their shit for systemd/ubuntu/glibc-with-modules/etc and pretty much have it right.
(trilema) mod6: <+jurov> mod6 if the guest does have /etc/rc.conf then it's not systemd, tha'ts ruled out << ok *whew*. so yeah, both the parent and the chroot *have* /etc/rc.conf
(trilema) jurov: mod6 if the guest does have /etc/rc.conf then it's not systemd, tha'ts ruled out
(trilema) mod6: ok jurov: got the log; I don't see any reference to systemd in there -- but keep in mind this is the parent system.
(trilema) mod6: and under /etc/systemd there is one directory, 'network', which has nothing in there.
(trilema) mod6: <+jurov> iirc systemd does not do /etc/local.d << ok so yeah, i have these: 00_getsshkey.start 00_getsshkey.stop in /etc/local.d
(trilema) jurov: iirc systemd does not do /etc/local.d
(trilema) jurov: also, i don't see steps to avoid systemd in that doc
(trilema) lobbes: Now to change the init to something other than systemd (for reasons I don't fully grok yet, other than it is being pushed pretty aggressively, from what I gather)
(trilema) gabriel_laddel: 8. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-04-2015#1113452 << Masamune is based on funtoo, which is gentoo without SystemD.
(trilema) mats: recent versions of debian and arch have systemd fwiw
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 04-04-2015 18:59:06; ben_vulpes: i'm looking for the 'how to gentoo without systemd for noobs' link
(trilema) trinque: you will in the default profile end up with systemd's udev though
(trilema) trinque: you'd have to choose a systemd profile which is not the default
(trilema) nubbins`: "The remainder of the Gentoo Handbook focuses on OpenRC as the default init support system. If systemd is wanted instead, or are planning to use Gnome 3.8 and later (which requires systemd), please consult the systemd page as it elaborates on the different configuration settings and methods."
(trilema) nubbins`: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Base#Optional:_Using_systemd
(trilema) nubbins`: like trinque says, you have to explicitly choose systemd
(trilema) trinque: ben_vulpes: you don't end up with systemd unless you ask for it
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i'm looking for the 'how to gentoo without systemd for noobs' link
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm not using systemd
(trilema) ben_vulpes: !s gentoo systemd
(trilema) asciilifeform: <nubbins`> well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd << damn right
(trilema) thestringpuller: "It's all fun and games until someone jokes about systemd" lol
(trilema) thestringpuller: rich boy sellin' coin broke niggaz wanna jack this just bought a debian "THROW SOME SYSTEMD's on dat bitch"
(trilema) thestringpuller: systemd is the best thing ever
(trilema) nubbins`: well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd
(trilema) trinque: I think some might look at it and compare it to the systemd situation
(trilema) trinque: BingoBoingo: this I think is the saddest thing about fuck-ups like systemd, "cram everything into one program" is not novel. I wouldn't mind trying unix-like systems which *actually* tried something (novelly) different
(trilema) trinque: mod6: "use flags" and package.mask for great justice against systemd, udev, etc
(trilema) asciilifeform: a default gentoo (to the extent it even makes sense to utter such a thing) built by someone carelessly reading the cookbook will end up with systemd as likely as not
(trilema) mod6: what if gentoo adopts systemd next week?
(trilema) asciilifeform: mod6: there's be substance to that if i hadn't just built a 3.18 kernel and full userland into <5MB with no systemd crapolade
(trilema) asciilifeform: can safely toss the pieces of shit with systemd, etc. now.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: ahaha. 1) systemd is not nor will it ever be successful. 2) systemd is a grease spot strictly because of the red hat drilling platform upstream. once that goes away, the whole set of fleas and their "successes" and "ideas" and choices and whatever also go away.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: " have a thick skin (and so do most of the others involved in systemd, apparently), and I figure that plays a major role why we managed to bring systemd to success, despite all the pressure in the opposite direction. "
(trilema) mircea_popescu: o. Currently, the systemd community is fantastic, and I really hope we can keep it that way."
(trilema) mats: another fun fact: you can physically damage XP installations via ACPI parsing and NtSystemDebugControl, entirely in usermode
(trilema) decimation: re: systemd-free gentoo < http://www.funtoo.org/Welcome < there's also funtoo which is apparently a light variant on gentoo which specifically excludes systemd
(trilema) asciilifeform: do this -before- emerging world, or any individual package likely to pull in systemd-isms for that matter.
(trilema) asciilifeform: and mask systemd and udev in package.mask.
(trilema) asciilifeform: summary: add '-systemd' to USE flags
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd << aaaand there's a bit of instruction here
(trilema) asciilifeform: use 'eudev' instead of 'udev'. this zaps the shitgnomotron of artificial dependency on systemd in device hotplugger
(trilema) mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know it occurs to me a broad systemd test script would be useful
(trilema) asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: gentoo doesn't have systemd? << complicated. if you follow the install described in the Handbook, you will almost certainly end up with systemd
(trilema) asciilifeform: "the costs of systemd" << wai wat was this
(trilema) ben_vulpes: gentoo doesn't have systemd?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: should be remembered as "the costs of systemd".
(trilema) asciilifeform: and yes, systemd is coming to debian
(trilema) asciilifeform: at least debian doesn't have all that systemd crap << do you have a fully-source-based cross-compilator build of debian? if not, it's worthless.
(trilema) davout: danielpbarron: "at least debian doesn't have all that systemd crap" <<< i was under the impression it was coming to debian too
(trilema) ascii_field: the runner up, and afaik only other working os, is 'arch' - which is systemd-infested
(trilema) asciilifeform: incidentally it is possible to write the eeprom from uboot (you gotta pump in the new payloads via tftp in that case, but you save time by not needing to wait for an os - such as the terrifying bloat of systemdized-archlinux - to load)
(trilema) punkman: fluffypony: don't tell us you love systemd now :P
(trilema) pete_dushenski: also looks like debian is getting forked into systemd-less "devuan" sometime this year
(trilema) jurov: inb4 "Our SystemD in the clouds, hallowed be zer name, zer kingdom cometh...
(trilema) jurov: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?114020-Systemd-Gets-An-Fsck-Daemon-Service&p=472061#post472061 << lol a real cult
(trilema) Adlai: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-02-2015#1021145 << incidentally, whippits are also sold in sex shops. surely the local systemd has monetized pleasure?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: exactly opposite of systemd "doocracy"
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Shame the solaris 10 with the SMF turd introduced was the only "open" one and likely inspired so many systemdevaintisms
(trilema) asciilifeform: (linked) http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/01/14/2030259/systemd-gains-new-networking-features << lol, somehow missed this
(trilema) assbot: Removing Libsystemd0 From a Live-running Debian System - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1L1IySr )
(trilema) BingoBoingo: http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/02/15/1959209/removing-libsystemd0-from-a-live-running-debian-system
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: brings down the networking stack... fucks up dbus and everything else... nfi why we care so much about systemd, in fact linux has been fucked over for years now << you will find that the ubuntu 'stack' that can 'go down' consists almost wholly of poetteringisms
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Dis-Able was first born. Disable spend many years in the shadows ruining sound and making daemon no one wanted. Pain came into the world with a bang out of Africa, promised ease at the cost of nothing working as expectabru. Two years ago they each decided to play the other's part and now systemd is loud while ubuntu silent becomes the quiet daemon that breaks apps in the background.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other words : i have nfi why we care so much about systemd, in fact linux has been fucked over for years now, by completely unrelated crapolade like ubunbtu. << It's a twin story. Pain and Dis-Able
(trilema) mircea_popescu: in other words : i have nfi why we care so much about systemd, in fact linux has been fucked over for years now, by completely unrelated crapolade like ubunbtu.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: PeterL because the last tiem anyone thought about this it was 1996, and the next time anyone wil lthink about this it will be to systemdize it
(trilema) Apocalyptic: "Non systemd users and distros are quickly becoming a threat. The big bucks behind projects like systemd, pulseaudio, ahavi and, most recently, GNOME and KDE where very competent on training some great minds behind software development as puppets for their interests" sums it up pretty well
(trilema) mircea_popescu: metzger could be that blind schmuck in systemd could be gavin etc.
(trilema) assbot: Anybody know how I can stop systemd /var/log/journal from filling ever partition it's in?
(trilema) asciilifeform: one ends up with a mindbogglingly-heavy ubuntu-style thing, complete with 'systemd'
(trilema) mircea_popescu: i guess it'd be sort of dress-rehearsal for systemd
(trilema) asciilifeform: it actually has a closer resemblance to the perverse programming languages discussed earlier in this thread, than to systemd
(trilema) asciilifeform: mr mold did not, last i heard, ever publish anything analogous to systemd
(trilema) mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what was the curtis yarvin brand of systemd called ? i forget ?
(trilema) the_scourge: asciilifeform: if you're implying it's not lightweight, only systemd and the kernel are installed off the bat. and some guys have done work on a systemdless setup
(trilema) asciilifeform: danielpbarron has probably noticed that pieces of 'systemd' crash every few hrs. on that box
(trilema) mircea_popescu: in any case purge that systemd atrocity , as a matter of principle if not necessarily practicality.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'NixOS 14.12 Caterpillar has been released, the third stable release branch. It brings Linux 3.14, systemd 217, Glibc 2.20, KDE 4.14.1, and much more.'
(trilema) asciilifeform: danielpbarron: this gives you a rather heavyweight linux - with systemd, even.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in << that's not a bnad angle.
(trilema) trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/#comment-10997 just in case.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: systemd crap, is.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the systemd folks are emulating apple, not (intentionally) microshit
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "systemd wrote their own dhcp library"
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "networkd: because networking is such a basic function of the OS, he believes it should be in systemd"
(trilema) mircea_popescu: but then again it works out : we're not systemd devs.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> someone said mint worked, maybe i'll try that << Systemd free, but... better venue for introducing microsoft refugees to not MS. Not really next step to get better at *nix
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "Also, I used to read their logs on IRC, and there was a guy called 'pankkake' (also in btctalk) who seems to have vanished. I think its because they disagreed regarding the fork thing, so if anyone could share the light on his views, that'd be interesting too since I used to value his thoughts." <<< wasn't that over the systemd fork of linux !?
(trilema) BingoBoingo still reeling over last week's discovery that of all distros Linux Mint appears as though it will be a systemd holdout.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: So... of all people newbie distro Linux mint if holding off on any systemd for two years http://news.softpedia.com/news/Linux-Mint-18-Will-Probably-Adopt-Systemd-470364.shtml
(trilema) BingoBoingo will never understand Debian sanely assuming someone assuming someone may want it for space travel, while also thinking someone would take systemd onto a spaceship
(trilema) gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I realize that, but no systemd should be considered a feature IMO. One I forgot to list.
(trilema) gabriel_laddel: Oh, I should note - no systemd.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: systemd
(trilema) asciilifeform: decimation: iirc arch linux is a systemd-ized turd.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Prolly going to fork into "systemd-node" and "System D Nodes"
(trilema) mircea_popescu: all crowd source projects constructed around an asshole succeed. like linux. and like systemd.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: " dude it's so great to be back on windows, seriously" << fifty million "experts" running systemd
(trilema) davout: the way i see this whole conundrum evolve is that eventually systemd will be renamed 'ubuntu'
(trilema) Adlai wonders when system d will begin using systemd
(trilema) mircea_popescu: ". Its growing all the time and now handles logging, device hotplugging events, networking, scheduled actions (like Cron) and much more. Almost every major Linux distribution has adopted Systemd, but there are still some unhappy campers out there,"
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "Few pieces of software in history have been so fiercely debated as Systemd. "
(trilema) decimation: later on he describes people who like systemd as "progressive" and those who reject it as 'conservative'
(trilema) decimation: "So we started writing Systemd, and Red Hat didn’t like it at all. Red Hat management said: no, we’re going for Upstart, don’t work on that. So I said, OK, I’ll work on it in my free time. Eventually Red Hat realised that the problems we solved with Systemd were relevant, and were problems that needed to be solved, and that you couldn’t ignore them."
(trilema) BingoBoingo: It's systemd all over again. Work is their enemy. Enemy is merely interested in producing anti-work.
(trilema) assbot: Fedora Development -- Re: timedatex replacing systemd-timedated for NTP packages ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDB9X )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: no wonder ubuntu and systemd are what's left on that smoldering pyre.
(trilema) asciilifeform: at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photograph << actually.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photographic cpus with tomograph units
(trilema) mircea_popescu: systemd, perhaps.
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 21-12-2014 18:02:01; asciilifeform: which, it turns out, the systemd pushers reflexively defended as a feature.
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 21-12-2014 11:41:37; jurov: bwahaha SYSTEMD IS ALWAYS RIGHT
(trilema) asciilifeform: which, it turns out, the systemd pushers reflexively defended as a feature.
(trilema) asciilifeform: somebody admits, it appears, that this was actually a bug in systemd
(trilema) jurov: bwahaha SYSTEMD IS ALWAYS RIGHT
(trilema) asciilifeform: only remembered 'systemd' now because happened to switch on a machine in my collection, a 'google chromebook a15', based on single-chip 'arm.' afaik, no clean (traditional init) linux distro has ever been published for said machine.
(trilema) asciilifeform is ever more convinced that systemd, with its default setting of vomiting syslog to every ptty console (!), constantly, is really an elaborate trolling gag project
(trilema) undata: I tried systemd and bizarre breakage occurred which I couldn't be bothered to debug
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Yeah systemd eventually is supposed to eat the entire userland, so Pulse audio works better or something.
(trilema) undata: I've been doing some reading on systemd; I had no idea just how many services it ate
(trilema) mats_cd03: now, to look for another distro now that debian's been converted to systemd....
(trilema) decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I said systemd was a fungus. I agree, I don't see how this kind of thing is tolerable. Politically, I think Linus is up against a wall to some degree, because he knows redhat, inc pays for most of the kernel 'zeks'
(trilema) asciilifeform: whichever one of you said 'linux is a corpse, and systemd is a fungus growing on it' was correct.
(trilema) decimation: speaking of which there's some amusement re: systemd and surrounds: http://lwn.net/Articles/619068/
(trilema) mircea_popescu: decimation basically this systemd is a ms windows of 1990s reboot.
(trilema) decimation: when asked why they were not going to support a standalone udev, Lennart wrote: "Anyway, as soon as kdbus is merged this i how we will maintain udev, you have ample time to figure out some solution that works for you, but we will not support the udev-on-netlink case anymore. I see three options: a) fork things, b) live with systemd, c) if hate systemd that much, but love udev so much, then implement an alternative userspace for kdbus
(trilema) decimation: they got the idea (probably from Lennart) that it would be a good idea to make udev depend on systemd
(trilema) assbot: When kdbus will become merged in kernel, using udev without systemd will become impossible. Lennart shuts down discussion calling any opposition "haters". : linux ... ( http://bit.ly/12e8Sad )
(trilema) decimation: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2a2tz5/when_kdbus_will_become_merged_in_kernel_using/ << reddit thread discussing some details re: systemd and udev
(trilema) asciilifeform: this is 'systemd' all over again.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and so you know, to quote pankkake, "So, we'll see if the end-users actually want to commit resources on not using systemd."
(trilema) assbot: oss-sec: Re: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning ... ( http://bit.ly/1zNRZyO )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: in five years people will be asking me why they can't load qntra and instead of pointing to braindamaged "code is poetry" wordpress version 1-4, i'll point at braindamaged "code is poetry" wordpress versions 1-28, AND at systemd "hey, you can talk directly to the dns resolver, because it's on a fixed port, and the legit server can't even race you because it is standards compliant and waits while you rape the stack.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: later in that thread, "(This systemd component is optional, I strongly recommend not to ship it. It's not even possible right now to dump the cache contents to debug such issues.)"
(trilema) mircea_popescu: holy shit is there something that's done right in systemd?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: sees the query from victims upstream DNS, but since systemd-resolved also uses fix
(trilema) assbot: oss-sec: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning ... ( http://bit.ly/11ocaaB )
(trilema) mats_cd03: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592 << another day, another systemd inflicted bug
(trilema) decimation: actually, the bigger question about systemd dependencies is this: what dependency of systemd is actually worth bothering about?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://boycottsystemd.org/lennart1.png << t5his, if anyone's still genuinely wondering, is half the bile against poettering.