mircea_popescu: but looky : the fact that some later schmuck had better/different materials
mircea_popescu: this is "my girlfriend was a virgin when i met her because her previous boyfriend had a shitty job"
mircea_popescu: well, everything you saw the guardian publish, at any rate.
mircea_popescu: recall that one time when iu had to force "wikileaks" to publish documents ?
mircea_popescu: the fact that the barnacles are barnacles does not speak much of the ship.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> well, everything you saw the guardian publish, at any rate. << Greenwald/Guardian did filter the SNowden 1 documents
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw, i've not yet published tons of reams of piles of stuff either.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> if nothing else whatsoever were known about them, the redactions make it entirely obvious << WHich is why the escaped yet utterly contained Snowden1 is known for nothing but powerpoints. Censored and surrounded with phriends.
mircea_popescu: the reason they did is that some of the ips were actually traceable to various poorly protected shells.
mircea_popescu: and at the time at least they still thought "we" don't have the list
BingoBoingo: Nothing interesting was ever conveyed by powerpoint
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, that was actually a rather lulzy forced humiliation.
mircea_popescu: they couldn't even let the ips through, because that badly set up.
phf: if corporate sop is anything to go by, it's probably easier to get access to powerpoints (cross-company shared materials), then to actual technical details (contained within individual teams' machines)
assbot: Logged on 28-02-2015 04:57:56; asciilifeform: essentially, something so utterly catastrophic to usg that it could not possibly be a hangout
phf: lizard hitler's stash
BingoBoingo: <phf> lizard hitler's stash << Jurrassic World topping the box office because Lizards are real
mats: deedbot-: dpaste.com/3QCXX90.txt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32470 @ 0.00052546 = 17.0617 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're getting decimated alright, you're just not in a too good position to observe it i guess.
mircea_popescu: but the beating usg is taking online for the past half decade makes the beating it's been taking on the ground in any military engagement since ww2 look like a piss in the park.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah, which is how snowden (1) got all the stuff in the first place.
mircea_popescu: <phf> lizard hitler's stash <<< yeah, aka "i'll believe this outside phenomena happened if and only if, and only to the degree it, confirms convictions i held previously and independently of reality"
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 00:28:06; nubbins`: nobody wanted windows, they wanted the experience of being dazzled by shiny things
gribble: Time since last block: 9 minutes and 8 seconds
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << this was maybe os/x and generally crapple. it pretty much never was microsoft. microsoft was historically more like george costanza's annoying tune. << Unfortunately for everyone's enshittenment Constanza and Windows 95 ascended to prominence at roughly the same time.
BingoBoingo: Windows wasn't really even much of a thing apparently until Windows 95 when the local Walmart had lines for it thanks to "marketing"
pete_dushenski: "Drivers who work for Uber should verify their vehicles are insured for commercial use, the Insurance Bureau of Canada said Tuesday after the Alberta government concluded the ride-hailing service's insurance policies don't meet that province's requirements." << ayup. sv's 'sharing economy' is a whole whack of insurance fraud.
BingoBoingo: That was the moment where the transition went from every individual computer manufacterer's branded Microsoft DOS to the unified Windows monolith. It really is no wonder... considering what was going on at IBM in retrospect... that people though OS/2 had a chance
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's looking like to build a working Eulora Imma have to do it like Bitcoin-qt and hit delete a lot. This closed source Nvidia CS-toolkit is no bueno
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 04:16:42; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're getting decimated alright, you're just not in a too good position to observe it i guess.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 04:17:19; mircea_popescu: but the beating usg is taking online for the past half decade makes the beating it's been taking on the ground in any military engagement since ww2 look like a piss in the park.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i dun think it currently is possible to have an open source graphical anything.
mircea_popescu: which is kinda why i was encouraging stuff like "rip off vlc's asciigfx codec and make an emacs eulora client"
mircea_popescu: this basic formula of yours stays vague deliberately, for the obvious reason.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo i dun think it currently is possible to have an open source graphical anything. << Apparently the next .1 iteration of Crystal Space seeks to abolish the cs-toolkit dependency. In the interim I'll chop, maybe finally lean diff, and just perhaps make actual patches to shit.
mircea_popescu: or just do what i do and run a random box for the purpose.
mircea_popescu: i have serious issues taking people named dana seriously.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Boxes are scarce, CPU's are scarce. Imma trying to make St Clair county my bitch while making sure all my computing fits on back for extended periods of time.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo what's a "cutman" << Stops the bleeding in between rounds.
BingoBoingo: Cutman is the only reason fights of interesting length happen
mircea_popescu: "It was just the latest in a string of calloused comments made by UFC's head honcho -- far from the diplomatic dialogue expected of the largest mixed martial arts organization"
mircea_popescu: i do not expect the head of a headbashing federation to be "diplomatic", whatever that weans
mircea_popescu: i certainly don't expect the libertard definition of diplomatic to apply.
mircea_popescu: then they have the gall to mock catholocs for being so-and-so.
BingoBoingo: My understanding is this UFC promotion killed the one way for its participants to get side-money at market rates.
mircea_popescu: "It was an expansive decision on the UFC's part, as the promotion claimed its main interest was to legitimize the sport by removing the tacky, albeit characteristic, fight gear that had become an emblem of the polarizing sport"
mircea_popescu: "The deal was reported to be worth $70 million over six years."
mircea_popescu: According to the released figures, a combatant with less than five fights in the UFC will make $2,500 in sponsorship money per fight
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: how is it that no one has thought of issuing stock for athletes ? << They have only recently advanced to insuring "prospects" but stock will come
mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform wanna get your head bashed in for 2.5k ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hey asciilifeform wanna get your head bashed in for 2.5k ? << I would
mircea_popescu: this is what you casually forget, when you keep thinking everyone else's doing so much better than you.
mircea_popescu: you neglect to consider that for most people we discuss, this would be a step up.
gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 25 seconds
mircea_popescu: gavin does the clown, for LESS MONEY than what the headbashers get.
hanbot: say asciilifeform, can this line from rotor step 6) be devague-ified? "and fill distfiles with tarballs, etc. as before."
mircea_popescu: because it's easier to play the clown, and A LOT more hitchhiker hos line up for it.
BingoBoingo would happily take 2.5 kilodollars to get beat provided a referee exists to call stoppage for tko. USD have been scarce here since misdemeanor thing started
BingoBoingo: Who knows, head may feel better afterwards, would take offer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66234 @ 0.00051858 = 34.3476 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 04:51:29; mircea_popescu: gavin does the clown, for LESS MONEY than what the headbashers get.
hanbot: asciilifeform aha i see. ty!
BingoBoingo: Other side effect of recent UFC hullabaloo is fighters no longer get to wear distinctive attire into the ring.
BingoBoingo: Built a brand on neon trunks covered in skulls, but Reebock doesn't think they can market it? FU
mircea_popescu: just drop this "federation" or w/e it's called, start a new one. who gives a shit
mircea_popescu: "oh you made it popular ? fuck you. you got no moat, drop dead".
mircea_popescu: like shit did "ufc" make dudes beating each other popular.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what's next. << Polish Americans without Asiatic features?
phf: gracie jj all over the place, like with karate in the 90s, and roughly as useful
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 00:53:50; nubbins`: as someone who knows far too much about the science of coffee, starbucks is actual shit
BingoBoingo: <phf> gracie jj all over the place, like with karate in the 90s, and roughly as useful << USeful enough for its particular role in the proscribed contest
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some shops here sell already ground coffee.
mircea_popescu: which is weird, but who am i to argue with the smartest people in the world.
hanbot: asciilifeform well fo' sho' when describing steps, be explicit about antecedents, i'll pay off the department of redundancy police department.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 00:56:14; asciilifeform: i don't grasp this, and won't, regardless of how well mircea_popescu explains it. why the fuck would anyone want ritual over the real thing ?
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 00:58:45; nubbins`: second one spent a fuckin hour selling us on the experience of selling our house through her
mircea_popescu: you know that feeling you get when something happens ?
mircea_popescu: yes. like, if you put a dab of icecream on your tongue, or if you open a creaky door, or if you catch a hare running off in the bushline
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2015 21:32:56; trinque: that sick jew is way hotter than these porcelain doll women
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know it's cocaine. and no, others live for bland.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i dunno, she looks like this clever smart pleasant chick i wouldnt fuck in hs because no accoutrements and too hairy.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: that's all part of the intrigue and mystery.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the dark hair is, yes, less than ideal.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: She is profesional weed toker exploiter
pete_dushenski: silverman's 'the aristrocrats' is second only to bob saget's
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "comedian", shtick mostly consisting of doing the tramp thing
mircea_popescu: which is on some level funny, considering she looks like a 13yo boy escaped from a siberian orphanage, but anyway.
BingoBoingo: Sure, but who will be laughing when Siberia fills with geothermal powered ASICs cooled by geography
mats: once this goes through, i'll be updating the comments with a new revision
pete_dushenski: "Twitter Inc's shares fell more than 11 percent in extended trade on Tuesday after the microblogging company said its number of monthly average users grew at the slowest pace since it went public in 2013."
pete_dushenski: "Twitter said it had 304 million core users in the second quarter, up from 302 million in the prior quarter."
pete_dushenski: of those two million, how many were bots, one wonders.
pete_dushenski: or hey, mebbe 30 mn people left and 32 mn bots were added in last 3 months.
mircea_popescu: moreover, what the fuck does the "market" expect. what growth on 302 mn ?
pete_dushenski: "The company's net loss narrowed to $136.7 million, or 21 cents per share,"
mircea_popescu: "i got a business idea that allows me to get 302 people vaguely interested while i lose 25 cents to the dollar!!1"
pete_dushenski: and unless they figure out how to squeeze juice from rocks, this may be the closes they ever get.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: well 302 would be bad enough, 302 mn really makes you wonder wtf is the matter with the 'business people'
pete_dushenski: "mebbe if we monetise the billion cell phone users in africa at $0.01 and somehow spend less than that, we'll be scrooge mcduck rich!"
mircea_popescu: basically, "paying 302mn people half a dollar each to derp on our site".
pete_dushenski: each of which, in return, pays every last penny of their spare attention.
mircea_popescu: if you live in the world where a click "is worth" 50 cents or whatever inane bs adwords experts powerpoint back and forth, i imagine it's a great deal.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather buy the uht / utf / whatever the fuck fighting thing was called from earlier
pete_dushenski: "Excluding items, Twitter earned 7 cents per share." << where 'items' are 'costs'. but who wants to make a big fuss about those ?
mircea_popescu: the former's not worth the 70 mn either, can have 500 muscle dudes for a lot less than 140k a head.
BingoBoingo: I haven't seen a source yet, but apparently rumours are Twitter hired that Randi Harper chick that Yahoo fired for meth...
pete_dushenski: "In the latest turn in the scandal, known as "Deflategate," Goodell said he affirmed the suspension in part because of the new revelation that Brady made "a deliberate effort" to keep investigators from reading text messages stored on the device." << sports leagues own their player's texts/sexts nao ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21530 @ 0.00052512 = 11.3058 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: NFL unlike UFC has a history of established heirarchy this way.
BingoBoingo: Happens which each team has half of a hundred people on the competative roster
hanbot: asciilifeform / ml folks: from where is one supposed to get the items in "manifest"? eg openssl-1.0.1g.tar.gz
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 01:08:09; nubbins`: phun phact, beans are shipped green from source and roasted at destination
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: ya, those nfl teams are enormous, which ties into my earlier comment about that new coach chica having a better shot in american football than anywhere else
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Right. NFL coaches very often never played at NFL level because... head trauma slims that pool.
phf: hanbot: upstream. there's mod6's early state of bitcoin posts that have urls/shasums
hanbot: phf i just realized, heh. thx.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 01:16:12; ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> it's actual swill << every time that i'm up north i can't shake the feeling that's where they ship the tired american brands to finally croak
phf: hanbot: you want message-id CADy547peeZfDJqnuQcq606tEJ_k_nmtBCFe7AYu4UaiOnd9hZQ@mail.gmail.com, UPDATED v0.0.5: Patching The Reference Implementation: A Guide
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I have my doubts baseball will get a female coach anytime soon. Almost all of the coachins stafff is there to go mechanics, and there are skeletal differences. Also every now and then in baseball benches clear to the point managers trade blows
BingoBoingo: Female umpire is perfectly immaginable though
mircea_popescu: oh, "co-ops" don't work because uneconomical ? THEY SHOULD BE MANDATORY
mircea_popescu: oh, our normative ideas about gender dynamics are bs ? SHOULD BE FORCED!!1
mircea_popescu: hey, people laugh at our notions of "earth sciences" ? BUILD CONSENSUS
mircea_popescu: whatever happens they always turn around to forced participation, it's like the baseline of libertard.
mircea_popescu: even fucking obamacare is ultimately the same "our shit dun work make it mandatory" nonsense.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Now female general manager could happen in baseball.
mircea_popescu: anyway, props to slate for managing to repackage the "us can't afford to host olympics, unlike both china and russia, because it sucks" into some sort of "do not want" because "notgood".
BingoBoingo: It's probably both. I mean 2004 olympics didn't kill greece on its own, but was a symptom.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 01:26:16; *: asciilifeform would like to be able to drink a ~decent~ cup of coffee without having to personally import, roast, and grind the beans
mircea_popescu: for one thing, that "vulnerability" had been well known, discussed in public here even, for long before the bip derpage.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 01:31:00; asciilifeform: it IS for EVERYONE in buenos aires
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51745 @ 0.00054028 = 27.9568 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: people usually lol at the ridiculous movie depiction of gunfire, but few notice the ridiculousness of gags.
mircea_popescu: seriously, you put a towel over her mouth and she's now silent 4ever ? wd!
BingoBoingo: Sure, just how like actual sex requires genitals, unlike in Hollywood
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00054588 = 34.0629 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: libreoffice and gimp are fine. the rest can be done without.
BingoBoingo: Even LibreOffice is a bit much post-graduation
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 289.0, vol: 9252.62771331 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 285.0, vol: 4616.63134 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 291.03, vol: 14552.60292135 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 297.99, vol: 3.2732026 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 289.006956, vol: 19109.25090000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 290.68245, vol: 64.55273284 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 298.187999989, vol: 82.31997186 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo glad "runs bitcoin" has overtaken "runs dopewars" as the measure of a decent *nix
pete_dushenski: seems to be an issue with boost or gcc, but i'm not too sure.
pete_dushenski: anyone who's so kind as to offer me assistance, please speak slowly and carefully, as if you were talking to a 10-year-old version of yourself
pete_dushenski: ^was attempted after installing the following : update, upgrade, build-essential, automake, git, libbost-all-dev, pkg-config (the last four of which were installed because that's what i had on my own 'recipe' from 0.9.x install and i recognise that this was quite likely unnecessary)
punkman: pete_dushenski: did you put anything in distfiles/ ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Which component wants you to use "jam" instead of "make"
jurov: fatal error: bzlib.h: No such file or directory << seems like original cause
punkman: oic, that stator.sh downloades the distfiles
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Also if you were choosing one shit movie this year... prolly should have chose "Pixels" over "Spy"
jurov: try investigationg boost configure script, if it has libbz2 option and try disabling it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73253 @ 0.00051858 = 37.9875 BTC [-]
punkman: pete_dushenski: check distfiles for a boost .tar.bz2
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: i heard pixel was pretty awful. though 'trainwreck' is supposed to be worth a laugh or two. i'd see it just for 'cheapskate' lebron james lol
punkman: because running the command that downloads boost in stator.sh gives me an html file
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It got a lot of damning praise, but so far I've made it past the first 15 minutes. Furhter than I made it waith Spy and Spy was not a cam rip.
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00051858 / 0.00053618 / 0.00054996 (990832 shares, 531.27 BTC), 7D: 0.00050102 / 0.00053967 / 0.00059791 (25493380 shares, 13,758.13 BTC), 30D: 0.0003933 / 0.00053439 / 0.00060248 (103682847 shares, 55,407.26 BTC)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: This flick also features SIGINT ineptness
pete_dushenski: not that this should be in any way surprising. it's a usg feature after all.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: They missed alien messages in Satellite TV shows
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski probably also takes the award for best film credits of the year
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00051631 = 14.7923 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: How is Africa's foreskin treating you nowadays?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44450 @ 0.00051523 = 22.902 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: I thought your foreskin surrendered the bomb when DeClerk gave it to Israel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58298 @ 0.00052262 = 30.4677 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53352 @ 0.00054982 = 29.334 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 04:13:52; mats: deedbot-: dpaste.com/3QCXX90.txt
shinohai: np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3exljh/how_can_i_get_bitcoins_im_14_and_my_parents_dont/ <<<<LOLOL
shinohai: So thats what happened to all my pot brownies.
mircea_popescu: hory shit look at all the damage ddosing trilema hath wrought!!11
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 07:07:01; pete_dushenski: ^was attempted after installing the following : update, upgrade, build-essential, automake, git, libbost-all-dev, pkg-config (the last four of which were installed because that's what i had on my own 'recipe' from 0.9.x install and i recognise that this was quite likely unnecessary)
mircea_popescu: they only had one chain and one pair of shoes in the wardrobe... so they made do.
mircea_popescu: faces come from the fardrobe. very poorly supplied, especialyl for young women.
mircea_popescu: re earlier thread, this is the whole root if not the whole extension of "common human experience" : the indignity of childbirth and the precariousness of pretense.
mike_c: smog is bearable, heat and humidity are not.
mike_c: ;;calc (17 * 9 /5) + 32
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this has been a very bitter and cold winter. imagine, some of the sheargentinians actually had to wear pants!
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally - they call "tenias". which is everywhere else ... an intestinal parasite)
mircea_popescu: "it remains a bit unclear as to how many people are actually working on this project. Or to be more precise, it is unclear whether or not anyone is still developing Eulora at all."
mike_c: ah, likely some unsee JS magic. anyhoo, it was a pic of my new baby girl.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you want to build it you need a ricketty pile of bs. not sure if actually msvs or what.
mike_c: boy and a girl, and we're done.
mircea_popescu: oh that's right, girly was coming. well... congrats on passing the bar of reproducing yourselves!
mike_c: we've done our part for the species.
mircea_popescu always thought sane names were underrated, happy to see them making a comeback.
mike_c: Yeah, I am a big proponent.
mike_c: that eulora blog post.. to leave a reply you have to be logged in - to his blog. It takes you to /wp-login/
mircea_popescu: you log in to comment same place admin logs in to admin
mircea_popescu: tons of holes in vanilla throughout its sad decade of history, too.
mircea_popescu: 07:09:24 punkman: do you have realpath? << i think we'll end up with this in the topic lmao.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell thestringpuller yo, can i use your thing to send misses_c a box o biscuits now ?
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 12:28:51; jurov: wd mircea_popescu
mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski <+punkman> do you have realpath? << Now that you have `realpath` installed, I'd try rebuilding the entire thing again. Thanks for testing!
punkman: mod6, see also my next comment
punkman: curling the sourceforge URL gives me HTML. wget works though.
mircea_popescu: PING archive.is (149.202.33.193) 56(84) bytes of data. 4 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 3003ms
mircea_popescu: (don't mind the 3ms ^C precision - i've yet to make a ping printout do two digit microsecond delays)
kakobrekla: my dns resolves archive.is to 178.79.131.122 instead
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 13:15:22; asciilifeform: ;;later tell lobbes can you please fix ^ ? ty
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Bundle works for me swimmingly, Debian 7 & 8 + Ubuntu 14.04 (already had packages installed) .
mod6: asciilifeform: if folks want to build obsolete crud, it is their business; but i would like to make sure they know that it is obsolete crud, and that i can either try to somehow support it XOR release new stuff ('rotor' etc) << are you infavor of releasing 'rotor'?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180847 @ 0.00052491 = 94.9284 BTC [-]
mod6: having a fully deterministic everything is where we want to be. but I can't even get it to build yet myself. imho; we've got quite some time/work ahead of us on that.
shinohai: I have yet to build successfully on gentoo, BSD, and arm. gentoo because I don't have a system up yet, arm because I'm a retard when it comes to cross-compiling.
mike_c: mod6: any reason not to put your mining maps on the wiki? They look awesome btw.
mike_c: meaning on the wiki, as opposed to link to your site
mod6: thx. mainly as I'm kinda still sorta updating 'em, it's easier to update 'em on my side then to push 'em into the wiki every time.
mod6: but eventually, im sure they'll live/reside in the wiki itself.
mod6: congrats btw mike_c :]
kakobrekla: aha yes congratulations, im sure you will be around even less now
mike_c: I think I actually joined this channel a few months after my first kid was born.
mike_c: Gotta make sure I leave them something better than USD :)
kakobrekla: is that the excuse you use on your wife? :D
mike_c: She is amused by my "bitcoin friends"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130450 @ 0.00051701 = 67.444 BTC [-] {5}
mod6: hi pete_dushenski: yeah, did you see my last comment to you?
mod6: tell pete_dushenski <+punkman> do you have realpath? << Now that you have `realpath` installed, I'd try rebuilding the entire thing again. Thanks for testing!
mod6: so feel free to blow way all the build directories etc.
mod6: start over 100% since now you hvae realpath installed.
pete_dushenski: aha. i misunderstood the 'start from scratch' element. gotcha
mod6: i looked like to me that maybe something worked well after realpath was installed with boost, but maybe something didn't get copied over correctly with openssl.
mod6: so better to start fresh and see. only takes a few minutes anyway.
pete_dushenski: mhm. luck will be needed for when the biological instincts fall flat !
mike_c: It's pretty easy, when it cries change its diaper and feed it.
shinohai: Congrats to the new father, and also to the fathers-to-be!
shinohai likes children but values his sanity.
mod6: are you compiling as yourself or root?
mod6: well, thanks for giving it a try. not sure what's going on there atm.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 14:01:24; mod6: asciilifeform: if folks want to build obsolete crud, it is their business; but i would like to make sure they know that it is obsolete crud, and that i can either try to somehow support it XOR release new stuff ('rotor' etc) << are you infavor of releasing 'rotor'?
ascii_field: and i'm still waiting to learn what was actually going on
mod6: isn't rotor just 'old-stator' (from a few months ago) + buildroot & openssl patch?
ascii_field: mod6: it uses buildroot to generate a gcc and binutils clean of glibc
mod6: i ran into the the same problem as trinque with mine. and you told him 'get a computer'
ascii_field: mod6: were you able to build the toolchain ?
mod6: i built mine on a gentoo/nomultilib/glibc x86-64 host
mod6: my build failed during the BDB build
mod6: other than basically trying it out that one time, i've been pretty hammered with other stuff to finish before month end.
ascii_field: mod6: your bdb and other tarballs in distfiles match the checksums in MANIFEST ?
mod6: wont really revisit until after the 1st.
shinohai: I'm going to try the pogo build with rotor again later this evening. So everyone wish me luck.
mod6: that was all fine and dandy.
ascii_field: mod6: is there a link to the build output in the log ?
ascii_field: i too have been busy with other things, and lost track.
shinohai: I have very little to do all day in my situation, so throw any testing at me and I'll at least try.
phf: is rotor intended for general distribution, that is non-specialist should be able to download and do an independent turnkey build?
ascii_field: phf: i determined, some months ago, that glibc is evil. and decided to abolish it from bitcoin.
mod6: ascii_field: there are a few pastes, it starts here: log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-15#1214475
mod6: probably 20 lines of log to wade throgh
phf: i remember, musl is pretty cool, it's part of the whole suckless movement
ascii_field: mod6: unfortunately there is not enough info in this paste to go on
ascii_field: phf: the other purpose of 'rotor' is to have a 100% deterministic build
ascii_field: the only way to have this is for everyone to also build the compiler
mod6: ok, so sometime next week, i'll rebuild again from scratch and paste the full log.
phf: is bitcoind basically a new buildroot package or you're doing shellscripts? (sorry, i've not had a chance to look at rotor yet)
ascii_field: the reason i wrote it this way is that the result is intended to be used on a normal linux box
ascii_field: (rather than a linux produced by buildroot)
shinohai: reddit wants to know when the windows release will be ready xD
phf: qemu with buildroot.img packed into binary -> bitcoind.exe :]
shinohai: the irc cloud has apparently evaporated
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 11:50:54; mircea_popescu: cazalla nah it's just, as the gulf between society and government widens, the ability of society to maintain social order decays. people start taking it upon themselves to provide for their own security, the most vulnerable groups (foreign language speaking, poor immigrants) overstot, which induces negative reactions in the public,
ascii_field: '“We have got to identify the people who are most likely to be radicalized,” he continued. “We’ve got to cut this off at the beginning. I do think on a national policy level we need to look at what self-radicalization means because we are at war with this group of terrorists.”' << win
assbot: Wesley Clark: “Disloyal Americans” should be tossed in internment camps for the “duration” of the war on terror - Salon.com ... (
http://bit.ly/1KyI2hn )
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 13:15:45; asciilifeform: we discussed this! there is no reason for one of these links to ever appear twice.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 13:30:22; jurov: phirephox
ascii_field: jurov: be so kind as to post a screenshot of whatever that thing was ?
jurov: it shows mouseover text only for one dot at a time
trinque: mats: time for me to switch deedbot- to the next tank :)
mats: kay, if you'd get that paste i've been trying to jam in there, that'd be great
mats: is it out of coins or wut?
mats: i think i put three or more duplicates in there in the last two days, feel free to delete em
trinque: the unconfirmed one should be the one you're waiting on
trinque: it'll upload to the site shortly
gabriel_laddel: 04:49:25 mircea_popescu: they should have held out for 55 billion. << lol
ascii_field: trinque: the one linked earlier, has a qntra news feed
trinque: in-wot jobs board isn't that bad an idea, really
trinque: could just deedbot your resume and announce here, though
ascii_field: 'Powered by BitRecruiter Written in pyth by Azelphur'
Azelphur: Please note that I am a programmer and did not write any of the content
williamdunne: ascii_field: Programming (C#, Java, can learn other things), banking relationships, web development. Really anything that can get me a few bob each month
williamdunne: For the right job with additional incentives aside from salary I'd work sub-minimum
trinque: this notion that it's even possible to ban a mathematical formula is insane.
trinque: dunno that there's a better measure of american hubris than that.
ascii_field: trinque: as i understand, the story isn't about '90s-style bans, but smoke to distract from the fact the 'smartPnohe' etc. is thoroughly pwned and usg-controlled on every level, 'crypted' or not
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33100 @ 0.00054883 = 18.1663 BTC [+]
shinohai: Easiest way to spy on your citizens is to put a device in every household they can't resist.
trinque: that's what I call my android phone
trinque: I don't know that even Mr. Huxley would've ever dreamt you'd carry the thing around with you.
trinque: ah I'm sorry, you're right.
ascii_field: huxley was optimist! his phyootoor had endless dope and all-day-long fuck for everyone
phf: huxley is the one who predicted that you would carry such a device and you would love it
trinque: still waiting on that soma
decimation: ^ apparently in some places 'rule of law' kinda applies to cops
trinque: a) hilarious, good luck kid, and b) great excuse for russia to do whatever the hell it wants next
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Programming preferred, but anything that pays and I'm capable of, which I'd like to imagine is a fairly wide range of things
mircea_popescu: come to argentina start a black market dollar trading empire.
mircea_popescu: the locals are broadly speaking too retarded to qualify as frogs.
williamdunne: I lack capital, but conceptualized a service that could handle such things
williamdunne: (Friend is working on something similar for India/Brazil)
mircea_popescu: forget "service" dood. stop trying to abstract your ass from the fucking, that's not how it works.
mircea_popescu: that's what the local derps are daydreaming too, "services" and "platforms" and their mother's wide cunts.
phf: hypothetically speaking how does a black market dollar trading works? bring cash past border control, sell to locals at margin?
mircea_popescu: phf buy and sell from locals, organise couriers to keep bringing bills in to help me bring down the fucktarded slow motion socialism they call "peroniosm" here
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how does bringing green pieces of paper from up north help bring down anyone ?
mircea_popescu: whole shebang's got maaaaaybe a coupla years left of "podremos vivir mejor" and "victoria es tener un trabajo y non necesitar un secundo" left in it.
williamdunne: What is the primary method of getting Argentinian toilet paper back into dollars?
mircea_popescu: you wait for a coupla years, then buy the pick of the crop of the current 12 yo women and sell them to brunei.
ascii_field: i mean, when i visited i traded mircea_popescu a bit of usd for coin. how did he use them to put a small hole in 'peronism' ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the less control over the currency the soi-dissant state enjoys, the closer it gets to its pissant destiny.
punkman: mircea_popescu: how much USD can one bring when entering .ar ?
mircea_popescu: and ~currency~ means something specific. the ~current~ medium of exchange.
ascii_field: 10k is the traditional legal limit usa-side
punkman: around 10k euros around europe too
mircea_popescu: some people bring half mil to a mil, but then you run the risk of having to maybe shoot the dummies.
punkman: are there euros in .ar black market?
ascii_field: if the $mil fits in your pocket, you probably won't have to shoot anyone
punkman: if they catch you with half-a-mil do they just confiscate?
mircea_popescu: "if you give that nimrod fifteen hundred dollars i'll shoot him on general principle."
ascii_field: probably safer to have this bad outside, vs inside of usa!
mircea_popescu: anyway. bring some friends, the hos you can't do without, some money and i guess handguns if you don't care for the chinese half-and-half crap.
ascii_field: incidentally, i've wondered when u.s. folks travelling with cash usd will learn about thermite as countermeasure to 'confiscator'
ascii_field: instruction, iirc, was '1) hit red button 2) open fire'
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: game-theoretical instrument
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: cools the ardour of the enemy, cheaply
thestringpuller: <mircea_popescu> yo, can i use your thing to send misses_c a box o biscuits now ? << we do cookies...
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i don't think you understand what the word "stupid" means.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: cow is stupid. still learns to avoid the barbed wire
phf: mircea_popescu: so the idea is to basically work as exchange, but with black market rate premium, whatever it is 30-40%, and a wider buy vs sell spread?
mircea_popescu: phf the idea is to basically work as an exchange, yes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33158 @ 0.00052485 = 17.403 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: dollar trades 13.8-14.2 atm, "officially" at 8.whatever, in the sense that if you're a farmer and you sell soy, you're going to be paid for the dollars you bring in at that rate.
mircea_popescu: govt is essentially running a 60% arbitrage on the last remaining productive leg of the place, which is fucking soy farming.
mircea_popescu: anyway. there's no shortage of work to be had here. and i mean serious work.
mircea_popescu: lol wait, gmaxwell and mike hearn bitching at each other on reddit as to who should go do an altcoin ?
mircea_popescu: Last week, Retired General Wesley Clark, who was NATO commander during the US bombing of Serbia, proposed that disloyal Americans be sent to internment camps for the duration of the conflict.
mircea_popescu: check it out ascii_field, everything's rosy over at nigger house! they're so happy with the way shit's going they're gonna buy everyone a round!
ascii_field somehow found himself implementing an ip stack
jurov: ascii_field: do you have a terminal emulator stashed anywhere?
jurov: everything i can find is married to gtk
ascii_field: the only other one i've used in the past decade was 'minicom'
ascii_field: i literally can't recall any other than these 3.
ascii_field: (at one point i owned an actual 'glass tty' ibm terminal, but parents threw it out)
jurov: ithings just came down into adding terminal emulator to eulora and i'm weighing down the options
jurov: i'm blissfully unaware of quake
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10542 @ 0.00052485 = 5.533 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83700 @ 0.00052629 = 44.0505 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 15:35:31; *: shinohai likes children but values his sanity.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 15:55:28; phf: i remember, musl is pretty cool, it's part of the whole suckless movement
jurov: musl is alternative libc
shinohai: I guess I was unwittingly a poet today.
ascii_field: not, afaik, affiliated with the musl folks in any direct sense
shinohai: I was just about to respond to the pic mircea_popescu posted. Such sanctimonious horseshit makes me sick.
shinohai: Raw fucking potato indeed, what is this Latvia?
mircea_popescu: This time itll be a conference for invited participants only.
mircea_popescu: "We believe this should become the mainstream philosophy in the IT sector." << it IS the mainsteam philosophy. just a bunch of barnacles hanging on.
phf: systemd was really the last nail in the coffin, this stuff was going on for a while, like freedesktop.org which is a open standards body (?) for all the retardation that came out of kde/gnome and "linux on desktop"
mircea_popescu: phf "you may have your thing revolutionize the world provided you agree to make it not change anything".
mircea_popescu: anyway. spolsky's making a mess of things. what a dumb article.
phf: of what i saw jwz wrote some tight no nonsense code, i think it's an unfair characterization of him. i guess things are seen different from microsoft mgmt perch
ascii_field: jwz took a big, fat shit into the software ecosystem
ascii_field: in my mind he represents the sv idiot culture
phf: mircea_popescu: in the duct tape programmer spolsky used jamie zawinski, jwz, as his main example, and i think it's an odd, backhanded characterization, that's mainly there to drive a point about something that spolsky imagined
mircea_popescu: you are actually both right and apparently well informed.
jurov: re: suckless actually 'dvtm' terminal emulator may be what i asked for
trinque: ah suckless... I ran dwm for quite a long time
mircea_popescu: "When asked why he jumped into the window by investigators, Nordman responded, [to] make the driver stop the car. He didnt seem like he was gonna
tak[e] me seriously enough me being outside the car and telling him to stop so I figured Id get inside and make him stop."
mircea_popescu: ahh, the primary driver of usg agent behaviour - that ever present gnawing fear at the back of the skull that who knows, maybe someone somewhere is laughing at them
jurov: i have even found an opengl term that's supposed to rotate char at cursor :D but from 2002
jurov: but reasonably recent and not bloated things are hard apparently
mircea_popescu: "Nordman and Heron have been cleared of all criminal wrongdoing in the incident and have received no disciplinary action from the department despite an internal review."
gernika: ascii_field is there a summary of sv idiot culture somewhere that enumerates the major flaws? My own experience of it is that it is sort of a fraud culture in which fraud "prototypes" are developed to be sold to google/facebook/apple for marketing purposes.
ascii_field: gernika: ultimately it is a set of pigs competing for trough of the u.s. fed arse-mouth-system printing usd to buy stocks with
mircea_popescu: or is that only if you bother some random anon faggot ?
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 18:11:58; trinque: this notion that it's even possible to ban a mathematical formula is insane.
mircea_popescu: every "ban" comes from the same happy place of insanity.
gernika: Seems like the fraud model took over in the 90s and resulted in the first bust.
phf: ascii_field: was talking purely about his programming style. he writes like an oldfag without "paradigms", focused
mircea_popescu: "I would like Ukraine to lead the crusades," said Korchynsky, whose battalion's name is Saint Mary. "Our mission is not only to kick out the occupiers, but also revenge. Moscow must burn."
mircea_popescu: "No political force should have, and will not have, any kind of armed cells. No political organization has the right to establish ... criminal groups," Poroshenko said on July 13.
jurov: punkman the problem is, i need it to draw on opengl canvas
jurov: yes it is posible to place it as fixed X child window but then it's forever limited to linux/X
jurov: i don't reject that altogether, will see how it goes
jurov: oh i did not mean so lowlevel, there are already text primitives provided
mircea_popescu: jurov no but i mean... read say diana's code, she's usiong native functions to output text in a window
jurov: yes but it's "dumb terminal"
mircea_popescu: let cs handle the canvas bs for you is by far the best idea. and only toucvh the radioactive pile of crap it is via the client api for oyur own safety.
jurov: phf that's the ancient thing with rotating letter i mentioned
jurov: it can't even get pty properly
jurov is sad to label 2002 stuff as ancient
jurov: phf: that may have worked if eulora used wxwidgets from cs
jurov: but it does some "paws" homebrew stuff without py bindings
jurov: btw, i naively created swig py bindings just for network messages, .py and .cxx it came out several MB
jurov: and i had to comment out structs nested inside classes
jurov: it eventually compliled, did not dare to try it yet
jurov: as it was said earlier when boost was discussed, either it gets used or some crappy homebrew replacement
jurov: CS does the latter
diana_coman: cs pretty much insists on replacing everything for some reason
phf: well, no, the approach would be to implement necessary drawing primitives on top of existing console in eulora (they are probably already there, just need to be catalogued), expose those primitives via python interface, and then hook the primitives into pyte's rendering callbacks. wxwidgets are not involved anywhere
punkman: what's the purpose of this anyway?
jurov: phf, python will be for things that are likely to change, players scripting actions
jurov: i am not passing output and esp. keyboard/mouse input through that just to draw terminal emulator
jurov: dvtm is few concise 3kloc C files that know how to manage MxN text matrix+attributes
jurov: btw williamdunne everyone is hating on eulora that it does not have official website, you're welcome to put together one
jurov: and get paid in quality bits of nothing ;D
shinohai: "get paid in quality bits of nothing" <<< Dogecoin ?
jurov: lol no it's real eulora item
jurov: he's just a bit awkward with camera
shinohai: Seems like everyone here plays this game but me. :/
shinohai: I absolutely suck at gaming. The last thing I played and enjoyed was probably Mario Kart.
diana_coman: ha ha, you never know until you try it though
jurov: please don't, eulora is a plot to sabotage the foundation efforts
shinohai: Besides tetris, which I can play inside my irc client.
diana_coman: ah wow, haven't played that in some years, hmmmm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00054899 = 11.968 BTC [+] {3}
williamdunne: jurov: How convertible are bits of nothing, and how many bits of nothing would it be worth? For personal reasons need some liquid money in my life
mod6: jurov: lol, awkward?
jurov: mod6 all shots are from behind
mod6: i play in 3rd person follow
jurov: williamdunne it's not paid per contract, just classical la serenissima voluntary debt
jurov: mircea_popescu will arrange 20 virgins for you when you die or some such
mircea_popescu: she's the queen of whimsy nao, we all gotta bow to her for samovar goodness.
jurov: guess she has no use for virgins posthumously :D
jurov: but seriously, eulora's economy is several BTC worth by now
jurov: i got bitcents worth of nifty items, too, for free (and overpaid for others.. that's life)
punkman: what would some starter mining/crafting tools cost me?
punkman: too bad I lost the bezzlebag :/
jurov: you can mine barehanded
diana_coman: punkman you can even mine with your hands for that matter, so for free
mircea_popescu: punkman you can mine for free, ill give you some bits of nothing for your tinies for free also.
diana_coman: and bits of nothing are like 11-12 satoshi or you'll prolly get some for free from someone (me even)
mircea_popescu: you can buy thread for your smalls, i sell high q stuff at ~430 each
mircea_popescu: but prolly best off selling your smal claims to a higher mienr for cash or a cut or w/e
trinque: williamdunne: iirc gabriel_laddel had common lisp work
assbot: The best Obamacare-makes-healthcare-affordable story you ever heard. Also, survivalism. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1U7IODO )
mircea_popescu: <jurov> phf: that may have worked if eulora used wxwidgets from cs << rewriting it on wxwidgets not illegal ftr.
hanbot: achtung noobkart. stator's distfiles manifest lists a boost bz2, ml67 pulls in gz. bz2 from sourceforge doesn't match manifest's sha512sum, where is correct bz2 located?
trinque: I can put my copies of the distfiles on deedbot.org
mircea_popescu: she had me at achtung noobkart. sort-of like you know, armored ?
hanbot: trinque ya but said ml67 pulls in from sourceforge, whaddamigonnado. deedbot would be great
hanbot: mircea_popescu with trumpets flatulant
trinque: db and openssl are also there
hanbot: thanks tringue. still doesn't match sha512sum however (boost)
hanbot: i'd assume i'm doing something horribly backwards except that db and openssl check out.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:09:21; *: mircea_popescu waves at lobbesbot
shinohai: @ hanbot I had same boost issues, had to roll my own
pete_dushenski: which, if it's acting up, isn't much of a cv, mr. dunne !
assbot: Watch Bryan Caplan and EconLog get their heads stuck in the sand. Like really, incredibly stuck. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1KzxXki )
hanbot: shinohai i noticed in logs, yeah. so asciilifeform , when you're around: where oh where is stator's boost bz2 from?
mod6: hanbot: prior to stator we used .tar.gz on boost, not sure why alf started using .bz2 at that point.
hanbot: mod6 interesting. anyway i want to see what he sez.
shinohai: I didn't know you could value yelp! in negatves
pete_dushenski: let this be a lesson to 'i just want to make a service' kids
pete_dushenski: yelp market cap now 1.87 bn and is down 70% this year. wd sv !
trinque: what's the shasum you have
trinque: as far as I can tell their business model is extortion
trinque: $ sha512sum boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
trinque: fc512d3bfa6a39a60fee548775c97239271cf757587b8df7ed739c800844a819a359dca172be0e69ad7752753753139bf11f0813d650066d58386662fe32842d boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
trinque: that's what I have in my stator manifest
mod6: fc512d3bfa6a39a60fee548775c97239271cf757587b8df7ed739c800844a819a359dca172be0e69ad7752753753139bf11f0813d650066d58386662fe32842d distfiles/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
mod6: i get the same thing on mine -- the (bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1.tar.gz has a script that pulls that one via curl command):
mod6: curl -L "$boost/1.52.0/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2" -s -o distfiles/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24299 @ 0.00051492 = 12.512 BTC [-]
mod6: and this is what all of my older v0.5.3.1 builds have pulled down for the .tar.gz:
mod6: 8de651beb9a48f91f8a797f44966b8f25c3351d6893c1d79969aeb2ded3adeaf8fc14aa9b8a4410081dde9ef155330b41a4982a62b55adde40bb73f0066c74a2 distfiles/boost_1_52_0.tar.gz
punkman: mod6: above curl command doesn't work for me
mod6: did you enter the line above it first?
mod6: i put this in the stator.sh script. it pulls them down, have tried on 3 different environments of my own, and independantly verified 2x otherwise.
mod6: anyway, this is all gonna change.
mod6: punkman: did you try the line above it first? the first line: boost="
http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/files/boost" << sets a environment variable. is required for the second part to work: curl -L "$boost/1.52.0/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2" -s -o distfiles/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
mod6: anyway, that has nothing to do with anything
punkman: mod6, yeah it worked now, but got html more than once
mod6: because alf's original stator doens't have that in there.
mod6: he expects everyone to pull down their own bundles.
mod6: The Foundation isn't going to ship these builds scripts any more. We're just going to ship source code for bitcoin.
mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
punkman: just host the dependencis on therealbitcoin.org
mod6: Only in some sort of catestrophic circumstance will we do such a thing.
mod6: Like sourceforge goes away, or OpenSSL gets a million pound shit dropped on its head.
trinque: mod6: I think that's wise, actually.
mod6: Trying to create a one-size-fits-all script for everyone to use to build this thing is not going to work. And how does one bundle up something such as 'rotor' and end up not maintaining buildroot and everything else? That's a game that I'm not interested in playing. And it's dangerous for us to go that direction.
mod6: We're gonna do what we do, deliver bitcoin source code.
mod6: The rest is all secondary.
mod6: And truly none of our business.
mod6: If asciilifeform needs a fully deterministic static bitcoind for his use, then sure, he can use whatever means he needs to achieve that.
mod6: And if someone wants to run a dynamically linked version? Who are we to tell them 'no'?
mod6: That all being said, I'm super glad that 'rotor' is out there now, and I hope to learn and use it one day myself. Maybe even this week! But that shouldn't be something that we deliver.
mod6: That should be something that you use for what we deliver.
trinque: its clearly a separate concern from the source itself, aside from which roof it is under.
shinohai: I like everything except this goddamned pogo. If I had gasoline in the house I'd set it afire this very moment.
mod6 takes away shinohai's matches
shinohai: I'm a smoker, I have tons of lighters. :D
trinque: dude, there's a lot of talent in the suckless wot
BingoBoingo: trinque: Linked from that sta.li page you posted
trinque: oh shit it uses a unionfs for packages!
trinque: I'm curious why these guys don't seem to have considered using openbsd as a basis
trinque: given their expressed love of simplicity
trinque: the linux kernel is the biggest wad of complexity in... linux
trinque: seems most of their stuff would run happily atop it
hanbot: trinque my sha512sum was of old, stale item. refreshed, matches, tyvm.
phf: trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not the blessed b-a target platform
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
trinque: asciilifeform: I don't think he's saying that, merely that aside from the makefile, perhaps the larger build system should be a separate concern
trinque: if it was that, sounds pretty reasonable to me
trinque: I think he's just trying to limit the scope of what constitutes a foundation release
trinque: but I'll let the man speak for himself
trinque: I can see how the thing tends towards "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe" otherwise
trinque: phf: why's that in your opinion?
trinque: I'm about ready to give linux the permaboot
trinque: though I suppose in terms of hardware support (pogo, so on) it does better.
BingoBoingo: linux per se doesn't seem to be the problem so much as linus, as traditionally implemented is
mod6: <+trinque> asciilifeform: I don't think he's saying that, merely that aside from the makefile, perhaps the larger build system should be a separate concern << exactly this. Makefile stays ofc.
shinohai: If anyone gets rotor to successfully build on the pogo, please, by all means contact me.
trinque: shinohai: are you trying to compile for the pogo, or *on* the pogo?
trinque: because the latter results in oomkill iirc
trinque: I tried it for the hell of it a while back
shinohai: trinque: *for* the pogo. *on* the pogo is just dumb.
shinohai: Boost alone takes like 10 hours to build.
trinque: alright so I'm seeing something
trinque: mod6: maybe you guys need a build/test crew.
trinque: so you can stop fucking worrying about it
trinque: that I could probably help with.
shinohai: Hell, I even got it to build on Ubuntu, the dumbest of Linux systems I know of.
trinque: my C++ is middling to poor, but I can bash it up all day
shinohai: Except my C++ is poor, no question about it.
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: good afternoon
ag3nt_zer0: hey trinque same to you... how's life?
trinque: s'alright, hacking and drinking beer at a local pub. yourself?
ag3nt_zer0: s'ok man... i started a countdown that clicks away until I plan to embark on a two year backpack around the world
phf: trinque: linux seems to support everything and with some effort you could strip it down somewhat. i think linux also has a policy of never breaking abi, so if you're into static compilation, like ascii said sometime ago "if stator binary breaks on your other linux something's very very wrong"
ag3nt_zer0: which means it hasnt been that great haha but I am looking forward to getting the fuck out of here so there is a light on the horizon
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sounds like the ussa bureaucracy has been rough, yeah
trinque: I'd like to do the backpack thing at some point too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89446 @ 0.00052197 = 46.6881 BTC [+] {3}
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: exactly... not to mention the twatbrains that constitute the majority of my contemporaries
ag3nt_zer0: this room seems to be the only place wherein any type of free discussion takes place... not stultified by PC and other too-intense sentimentalisms
ag3nt_zer0: aht part of the states you in trinque?
ag3nt_zer0: oh austin... both places are on my list as possibilities to reside if I make it back from my trip
trinque: austin's a great place imo
trinque: portland's ok if you can ignore or enjoy abusing the communists
trinque: excellent business culture in tx
ag3nt_zer0: I hear that people actually have the strnegth to acknowledge eachothers presence if, you know, colliding on the street
trinque: oh, I've lamented the lack of eye contact on the street in Portland in the hallowed logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.0005256 = 45.1753 BTC [+] {3}
ag3nt_zer0: I noticed a huge spike in this shit post 911/patriot act fear + smartphone... seems these events combined to cinch the asshole up to inpenetrable proportion
ag3nt_zer0: maybe it was the drugs, but I remember the 90s being quite different
trinque: when the fuck did america side with the pussies
trinque engages alcohol-induced candor
trinque: maybe I'm naive, but I'm certain this was not always the case
trinque: and I know the answer to my own question but... damn.
trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on the news as ever.
punkman: BingoBoingo: " to have been photographic "
ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and the fact that we preface our observations with these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland...
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: I have a half-baked theory that america was merely running on the fumes of the hierarchical beliefs of people that immigrated here
trinque: which dissolved, absent the political structures which conditioned them that way elsewhere
trinque: I'll check it out when I leave
williamdunne: Oh, scoop is disconnected from IRC but not the internet. I'll look into it
trinque: every irc bot is such a turd
trinque: guy that wrote tenyks told me I hate trannies, fucking cunt
trinque: I'm gonna eventually write one that works in CL
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: my old neighbor here in scam jose just bought a huge spread in merlin, OR... she showed me some pics it looks so nice...
trinque: punkman: I said to him that the guy who was run out of some ruby project for being catholic was wronged.
trinque: and he went total SJW on me
trinque: unimpressed, and he wrote the bot I based deedbot- on
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: it's a truly beautiful state, but the people here are red-blooded communists
trinque: I'm thinking of heading a bit north to WA
trinque: at least WA has a bit more get-up-and-go
ag3nt_zer0: yeah beenlookinf there too.. and montana, and alaska
trinque: hell we should probably all go swing our highly competent dicks in Buenos Aires at some point.
trinque: sounds like they barely know what they want politically
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00051324 = 13.4982 BTC [-]
trinque: so the legal precedent here is that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and there isn't shit you can do about it?
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:35:04; pete_dushenski: yelp market cap now 1.87 bn and is down 70% this year. wd sv !
punkman: mircea_popescu: yellow pages thingie
mircea_popescu: myeah, prime target for revolutionizing, they used to be big data in the 70s
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:57:10; mod6: The Foundation isn't going to ship these builds scripts any more. We're just going to ship source code for bitcoin.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:05:49; mod6: Trying to create a one-size-fits-all script for everyone to use to build this thing is not going to work. And how does one bundle up something such as 'rotor' and end up not maintaining buildroot and everything else? That's a game that I'm not interested in playing. And it's dangerous for us to go that direction.
mircea_popescu: this "pure code" approach is no different from every other "pure research" proposition - sure, you're purely able to pursue pure goals now, but the cost is any conceivable relevancy.
mircea_popescu: in any case in the triangle "monthly releases" "mod6 does all teh work" "bitcoind is usable" i'm not going to pick the first two for fucks sake.
mircea_popescu: "In just five years, Uber has accumulated enough rideshare industry milestones to make your head spin. The total distance traveled by all Uber drivers would take you to Planet Saturn and back. "
BingoBoingo taking time to nuke ophanages from 0.7.2 ish Bastard block annihilator pretty much works as ascii offered it.
mircea_popescu: blergh, fucktarded sales copy, i guess i'm the dumbass for not noticing it's washitpo again
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:58:57; hanbot: trinque my sha512sum was of old, stale item. refreshed, matches, tyvm.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:02:16; phf: trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not the blessed b-a target platform
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:37:59; trinque: mod6: maybe you guys need a build/test crew.
mircea_popescu: "early experiments show that statically linked binaries are usually smaller than their dynamically linked glibc counterparts!!!"
mircea_popescu: "Note, this is pretty much contrary to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin!
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:56:55; trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on the news as ever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.00051311 = 29.5551 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36106 @ 0.00052234 = 18.8596 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:57:24; ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and the fact that we preface our observations with these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland...
mircea_popescu: that'd be the problem. too much convenience, and allowing women the illusion that anyone asked them for any input in the big question of whether their offspring survives or not.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5644 @ 0.00052234 = 2.9481 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:24:23; trinque: so the legal precedent here is that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and there isn't shit you can do about it?
trinque: no kidding. the resistance to intelligence is palpable.
decimation: usg claims *all* airspace on its lands, starting at 0 feet
decimation: just like usg claims all your ideas: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"
decimation: ^ how could the constition give you your ideas if usg didn't own them first?
hanbot: doesn't seem to claim any ownership
trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned.
trinque: because they don't own the concept if that's what they claim they're doing
trinque: it implies massive domination of *action*
hanbot: i suppose this works ok up until one morning you wake up to find we've all changed nicks to trinque and there's just no way to make any sort of further sense of b-a
hanbot: at the very least classes must own their names.
trinque: I will revise to: no one can prevent me from making use of a concept; they live in the mind
trinque: I'm responding to decimation re: IP
hanbot: for as long as they stay there i doubt anyone cares.
trinque: to the extent that someone thinks they own a concept, I may lie and let him think so
trinque: yet I will use the concept any way that benefits me
hanbot: well the way it usually works is that if you try to make the movie / tshirt / book of the concept you end up losing whatever profits.
trinque: sure, and those are actions, and someone may or may not use their power to foil you
trinque: but you can't own a fucking concept
trinque: those are arrangements of language
hanbot: you're fighting a strawman, really. might as well claim "nobody could truly own a cow". they just take the milk is all.
hanbot: "beneficial ownership"
BingoBoingo: So transaction orphanage not as clean to cut out of 0.7.2 but done. Bitcoin running. Now to see if it catches up.
trinque: I'm speaking about the cultural vulgarity of "I own that idea"
trinque: controlling an idea requires an immensely more repressed society than I would prefer to live in
trinque: I only live that my thoughts may be less encumbered by morons by the day
hanbot: obviously the whole ip thing needs you not to own your bank account to work. places where that's not available develop a knockoff culture and get pretty loud. see south east asia.
hanbot: the choices you get are the choices you get. the choices you wish to make are something else.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
decimation: the US used to have a knockoff culture for its first hundred years or so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66700 @ 0.00051302 = 34.2184 BTC [-]
decimation: british machines were brought to the us to undercut english goods
mod6: exactly what I'm referring to.
mircea_popescu: not merely just an auto.sh, but step by step instructions to a level of detail never seen in open source.
mod6: you brought that up the otherday, agree 100%
mircea_popescu: more's the point here, i get the impression you're chaffing under too much workload.
mod6: we need something that people can utilize to make it work. i totally agree with that. and scripts and other widgets to make it work could even be a separate bundle.
mod6: well, i've been pushin pretty hard as far as work load -- what scares me is taking on buildroot and trying to bundle/test the entire thing.
mod6: and besides, we haven't exactly had great luck with our own build scripts to date.
mircea_popescu: useful work is useful work. taking responsibility for the whole world is a different story.
trinque: mod6: I've already been testing some of your stuff; if nobody else wants to manage the build script, I'm fine with it
mircea_popescu: sure, not to date. but we're not going by the criteria of what is easy, so we don't really care. if we won't have success for the next decade we'll be here trying it in 2026.
trinque: I've got a 4u collecting dust, etc etc
trinque: ben_vulpes has also put some work into his own script, so maybe he wants to handle it
mod6: trinque: he and i discussed this breifly. and I won't speak for him here. but i wouldn't have said what I said earlier without at least a discussion about that.
mod6: i think he's as tired of our build script problems as I am.
mod6: which is why he said he wrote that in the first place.
mod6: but mircea_popescu makes sense.
trinque: yeah, I mean the thing needs a derpinstaller
trinque: there aren't enough smart people in the world
trinque: even among the smart people... :p
mircea_popescu: mod6 just don't go to this dark place where "omg it's the 29th and i must have a working final version of bitcoind to announce
mircea_popescu: you don't belong there, and moreover that's just not our company style.
mod6: oh no. i wasn't planning on that at all this month anyway.
mod6: not even for a few months -- even before rotor came out.
mod6: the idea was; put out this test bundle and see if we're on the right track and if anyone hits any problems with any of the patches.
mircea_popescu: that said, obviously the effort to make anything work on the stack of shit we inherited from our retarded ancestors is nothing short of immense. but, chipping away at it is going to deliver, and confronting it is definitely going to show us a few useful things.
mircea_popescu: mod6 so far 90%+ of the problems have been with installation, from what i've seen
mod6: yeah totally agree. and i can't help but wonder if it's simply because of things that each persons different host has not installed by default. but it's hard to account for all of that.
mod6: hard, not impossible.
mircea_popescu: yeah. still, it's valuable to try, because if you help people they'll help you.
mircea_popescu: otherwise struggling with installers etc is a horrid trudge, but it is also an investment in human capital.
mod6: so i guess there is still a bit of a fork in the road; even if we do all of the hard work of ensuring peoples host dependantcies are installed before any compiling is even attempted, do we even want that to be a thing, as stan said, this is now obsolete. And do we now maintain a lot of other things for buildroot?
mircea_popescu: we will have to at the very least maintain packages we want to use, in the basic sense of, archival for download.
mircea_popescu: this sounds patently insane, i agree, but i just recently discovered in unrelated proejct that it's unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: sourceforge goes down, there goes youre entire project, seriously ?
mircea_popescu: can't even afford this for eulora, let alone for bitcoin.
mod6: yeah I saw that about the eulora thing.
mircea_popescu: and do not buy into the illusion that it was an isolated incident.
mircea_popescu: it could happenb to sf, it can and definitely will happen to github etc.
mod6: so should we still create scripts for people to build without buildroot (i.e. stator.sh/auto.sh) and then host packages for the ability to construct a buildroot with a drop-in of the foundation source?
punkman: I'm willing to contribute Ansible scripts to deploy/build/debug instances of bitcoind via ssh to different machines. for automating some of the testing workload.
trinque: punkman: yeah, I was thinking my 4u could be a build/test box
trinque: after all, that's apparently what it did for the kernel devs, haha
mircea_popescu: mod6 i'm not entirely sure how the specifics should work out. bit of an open question atm
mircea_popescu: but i'm pretty sure can't simply abandon the entire userland question, it'd be a major strategic mistake.
mod6: i agree. i'm just being careful not to create more work for myself/others than necessary.
mircea_popescu: decimation that's what makes it suspicious. 20mn slashdot, 2bn github. because... reasons.
mod6: ok well.... thanks for setting me straight.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you should prolly take a bit of time away from the hands on work you love and do some management stuff.
mircea_popescu: at the very least draw a schema of what and how needs done so people's offers to help can be plugged in
punkman: trinque, sure set it up with your choice of OS and I'll write one for you
trinque: it already has a basic gentoo install
decimation: nobody has offered to buy the thing for $2b as far as I know
mod6: mircea_popescu: ok sure. can do.
mircea_popescu: decimation you kiddin' me, it could buy out all the russia!
decimation: apparently github has turned into fark
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73335 @ 0.00051302 = 37.6223 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no but just for my curiosity, what's github to do with a quarter bil ?
decimation: it's kinda the same question as "what's apple gonna do with $60b"
decimation: one guess: hire a full-time staff of indians to vigilantly search committed code for perceived slights
trinque: god knows why, america is drunk on QE
decimation: maybe they can get into the space business too
decimation: lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales"
decimation: I'm sure the homos at apple support utf8, but apparently it doesn't work with whatever buildroot wants
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17436 @ 0.00053317 = 9.2964 BTC [+]
decimation: lol the problem was that buildroot was grepping 'locale -a' for utf8, while apple uses 'utf-8'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.000535 = 12.519 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50916 @ 0.00052796 = 26.8816 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: the funny thing will be that this schmuck will still be going around pretending like he actually exists and so forth even after this idiocy goes the way of neobee and "bitcoin security experts group"
mircea_popescu: just like phantomcircuit still goes around, an aethero waiting to happen.
mircea_popescu: decimation check it out, they need a metalocale. hopefully implemented as multibyte too!
decimation: heh yeah. apple makes up standards as they go
mircea_popescu: (ftr, intrigeri is something crazy with the bug reports, may be all-internet record holder)
mircea_popescu: yup, that's the only time so far 3 appears alone as a factor.
decimation: sigh a few more moles whacked and now this (on osx): xattr-at.c:36:20: error: too few arguments to function 'setxattr'
decimation: seems as though linux and osx and bsd use different 'attr' functions
decimation: on the other hand, surely 'tar' builds on osx. perhaps another night
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:10; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:49; mircea_popescu: this "pure code" approach is no different from every other "pure research" proposition - sure, you're purely able to pursue pure goals now, but the cost is any conceivable relevancy.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:50:12; mircea_popescu: "Note, this is pretty much contrary to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin!
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 02:34:07; mircea_popescu: sure, not to date. but we're not going by the criteria of what is easy, so we don't really care. if we won't have success for the next decade we'll be here trying it in 2026.