Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-01-28 | 2016-01-30 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14322 @ 0.00055878 = 8.0028 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14578 @ 0.00055878 = 8.1459 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00055269 = 11.4407 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: asciilifeform: it does at least ~compile~ http://dpaste.com/2QBY8S1.txt
mod6: asciilifeform: works! this is really cool : http://dpaste.com/35DN9JH.txt
mod6: are these the only two implemented thus far?
mod6: scheme_define(sc, sc->global_env, mk_symbol(sc, "btc-get-best-height" ), mk_foreign_func(sc, btc_get_best_height));
mod6: scheme_define(sc, sc->global_env, mk_symbol(sc, "btc-shutdown" ), mk_foreign_func(sc, btc_shutdown));
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00055644 = 6.2043 BTC [+]
mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00055574 = 6.1965 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Prospect of rpc-snip makes me miss web phuctor a bit less
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111581 @ 0.00055164 = 61.5525 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31450 @ 0.0005589 = 17.5774 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00055959 = 5.8197 BTC [+]
assbot: Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VuI1MQ )
ben_vulpes: things get interesting around https://youtu.be/aAGxDWKrjPQ?t=562
assbot: Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VuI3Es )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00055334 = 4.4267 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00054993 = 4.1245 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: wow, pretty sure they'd have gotten away if they just ran over the fed that jumped infront of the truck at the last second
danielpbarron: guy died basically saving the life of the fed
danielpbarron: with his hands up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00055959 = 7.8063 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: look closer, danielpbarron, watch like three more times
ben_vulpes: unless they shot him before 9:30 his hands are at his waist
ben_vulpes: libruls are gonna say "he was endangering a good honest policeman!"
ben_vulpes: repubtards are gonna say "los federales gunned down a confused old man stumbling around in the snow!"
ben_vulpes: AND I SHALL LOL
polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml
assbot: polarbeard_logging_sanity.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KewosO )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00054893 = 13.1743 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: what does snet in a printf mean?
assbot: polarbeard_logging_sanity.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KexnJJ )
polarbeard: they are just prefix strings
ben_vulpes: this'd probably be best delivered as 2 vpatches: one where you rearrange the deck chairs in the log messages, and another where you muntz out the rotator
ben_vulpes: that is a lot of delta to review for i don't precisely know what value
ben_vulpes: and for what it's worth i actually like seeing the function names in the logs. i know i could just grep for the log messages, but it's another way to get familiar with the codebase.
ben_vulpes: one develops a sense for what happens where in the codebase watching logs.
polarbeard: it truly is, as what value it has, it's just a step into better debugging capabilities, for this patch I've not added new log lines on purpose but I plan doing it for the next
ben_vulpes: what's wrong with gdb
polarbeard: nothing, but gdb is for debugging the present state
ben_vulpes: what you want to reconstruct full state at any point in time?
ben_vulpes: the problem with a patch of this size is that my face wearies of reading myriad log lines changed for seemingly aesthetic reasons, and i fear that even a close read will miss an underhanded c contestant.
ben_vulpes: you realize this is a 3kloc patch.
polarbeard: thats ok, don't worry then
polarbeard: I just felt it was fair to anounce its existence
ben_vulpes: yeah, sure
ben_vulpes: hell, submit it to the ml for posterity, i believe you have the wot rating for that.
ben_vulpes: "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc
polarbeard: somebody has to review it anyway, so I'll wait for any interest
polarbeard: if not that's fine, I built it for me, the categorization was a nice idea from mp, though
ben_vulpes: he also wanted to tabbify the whole thing
ben_vulpes: definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch.
polarbeard: you want to keep it? most people said it never gets activated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46520 @ 0.00054876 = 25.5283 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: removing dead code is good, far better than rewriting the log lines. just split it out so that it can be reviewed seperately from the two thousand five hundred and ninety odd other lines of that patch.
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: do i still fail to make myself clear?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00054871 = 13.5531 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32001 @ 0.00054973 = 17.5919 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00054534 = 13.8516 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12864 @ 0.00054937 = 7.0671 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30093 @ 0.00054534 = 16.4109 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00055346 = 16.7698 BTC [+]
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388237 << seems like it just removes ShrinkDebugFile()
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 08:13:49; ben_vulpes: definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch.
punkman: so the log lines are now prefixed with two types of things: ERR INF WAR and MEM ADR BLK NET WAL. If you are gonna do this it'd be nice to have the usual log levels on all lines (error,warning, debug, info) , so user can choose how much verbosity he needs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00054685 = 9.9527 BTC [-] {3}
polarbeard: punkman: I wanted to categorize the information before prioritizing but it makes sense, in fact some server software (mongodb for instance) does this with double prefixes using this format: <timestamp> <priority> <category> <message>
punkman: polarbeard: but some lines have <priority> and some lines have <category>
polarbeard: yes, you're right, I'll add priority and category in each line, thanks for the observation
punkman: that said, I'm not sure any trb users will actually want to filter on <priority>
polarbeard: me neither, but for the amount of data it needs to be introduced it won't hurt
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388055 yes this code is fine, cpp supports returning of objects by value, either by copying or some gnarly compiler optimization
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 01:15:23; asciilifeform: or hm, does cpp string class allocate a fresh turd when returning ?
punkman: (by filter I meant "don't save these lines", but I guess still useful when you are grepping or scanning with your eyes)
punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21082 @ 0.00055384 = 11.6761 BTC [+]
jurov: mod6: is the V ..er.. V-ified?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00055428 = 10.4759 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: polarbeard: i've updated ml, you can now post to btc-dev
polarbeard: thanks, I'll wait a bit for reviews I think
jurov: you will get more attention there than in the log, and you can always post an update
polarbeard: I appreciate the suggestion, I'll just finish ensuring each line has priority and category and I'll submit then
jurov: btw, while i'm on it: mod6, does V have any notion of "updates" and "reground" patches?
jurov: I know that i should manage the repository myself, but imo a version field would be good to have so that I can easily spot if someone posts revised version of the same patch.
jurov: !up Uglux
jurov: !up drnet
jurov: hi Uglux, drnet
Uglux: hi
jurov: perhaps you're new and full of ideas to improve bitcoin?
Uglux: I'm not new but full of ideas ;)
jurov: care to share and watch them burn?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00054657 = 7.57 BTC [-]
Uglux: sorry, no time...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00054597 = 13.5947 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28315 @ 0.00055289 = 15.6551 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6060 @ 0.00055472 = 3.3616 BTC [+]
polarbeard: ftr, I've updated the gist, will send the patch to the ml later
punkman: jurov, how would version field work?
punkman: btw, does the turdatron use v.pl?
jurov: it does not use v yet
jurov: and the version field as just advisory indication which is the more recent patch
jurov: say i post mempool_frobs.vpatch
jurov: and upon feedback i redo it, should i just repost with same name?
jurov: wouldn't that cause confusion when other files stay the same?
punkman: I think it'd be best to name the 2nd patch mempool_frobsv2.vpatch or something like that
jurov: then it will sort *after* mempool_frobs
punkman: they'd conflict, can't be in same toposorted list
jurov: so v will complain and user will have to resolve it by hand
polarbeard: gpg will tell you when it was signed, you can use that to discard old patches
punkman: vit does have interactive deconflict mode
assbot: [BTC-dev] Some test patches and my V implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1NZjGPg )
jurov: not anything serious, just throwing some ideas.. looks like this needs to be revisited only when I encounter the situation actually :D
punkman: ideally turdatron would press all the possible HEADs and let us see them in lxr
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12312 @ 0.00054544 = 6.7155 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16188 @ 0.00054416 = 8.8089 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20840 @ 0.00055218 = 11.5074 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> repubtards are gonna say "los federales gunned down a confused old man stumbling around in the snow!" << Old might have been the serious problem. Perhaps these men started too late to get the actual RUF sorta militia mindset. Turns out Kony was right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26860 @ 0.00055956 = 15.0298 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.0005596 = 13.934 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: Lol, Cer's rag is pushing for private keys on Blackberry https://archive.is/23xqt
assbot: Bitcoin Adoption in Indonesia May Hinge on Blackberry Wallet Solution - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfF31h )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11410 @ 0.00055717 = 6.3573 BTC [-]
assbot: Gavin Andresen Proposes Same Hard Fork Again | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vv94rD )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00054372 = 17.399 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: SourceForge and Slashdot Have Been Sold | FOSS Force ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfGoVO )
assbot: Into the symmetry: What the heck is RFC 5114? ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfGEnS )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00055131 = 4.3829 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu !
assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
asciilifeform: none of those hooks are 'give to other people'-quality as of yet
asciilifeform: so i sent it off with a few very basic examples.
asciilifeform: soon i will post some examples of hooks which actually take arguments
BingoBoingo: But the RPC snip possibility is a beautiful side effect
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 07:42:24; polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml
asciilifeform: it needs to frag into a dozen patches with separation of concerns before i will bother to read it.
asciilifeform: what happened to n00bz starting small!
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 19:24:25; ascii_field: 'why not start small, he said, offering the yoga n00b a single nail'
BingoBoingo: Prolly n00b raised in the school of "EVERYTHING AT ONCE"
BingoBoingo: Or trying to introduce crap
asciilifeform: anyway, to go back to business, the pedigree bridge makes it possible to read, in one sitting, all of the changes i made to the classical tinyscheme which ends up in shiva.
asciilifeform: the latter is now to be considered properly vtronic.
asciilifeform: instead of a ball of crud.
asciilifeform: (it still contains a historical ball of crud, tinyscheme.)
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 08:08:31; ben_vulpes: "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc
asciilifeform: ;;later tell polarbeard when writing a patch, consider the effort required to properly grasp EVERY LINE
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:02:07; punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:27:57; jurov: btw, while i'm on it: mod6, does V have any notion of "updates" and "reground" patches?
asciilifeform: the crud will end up on dead branches.
asciilifeform: rather like the other blockchain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27053 @ 0.00055964 = 15.1399 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12511 @ 0.0005565 = 6.9624 BTC [-] {2}
mats: 'misra c' is a fun read
mats: of the 'underhanded programming guide' variety
BingoBoingo: So, I'm thinking about returning to linux... maybe. Any idea if RadeonSI drivers would work on a musl kernel?
BingoBoingo: Google is unrevealing on this matter because fucking phoronix spam clogs these keywords
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy
gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 46124.0706, vol: 11640.70373598 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 46257.3259985, vol: 7959.8477 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 45469.3125, vol: 5.06 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 46629.489, vol: 74106.70140000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 46000.0, vol: 72.27468694 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46462.7425, vol: 114.3093928 | Volume-weighted last average: 46534.5335291
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 379.73, vol: 11582.44765331 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 381.1, vol: 7949.34921 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 380.09, vol: 54857.02272742 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 375.0, vol: 5.06 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.820605, vol: 74078.79440000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.74001, vol: 414.16996823 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 383.1462, vol: 114.3093928 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 382.469010567
mats: i just noticed pcengines 'apu2c4' will have ecc support
deedbot-: [Qntra] Bank Of Japan Takes Interest Rates Negative - http://qntra.net/2016/01/bank-of-japan-takes-interest-rates-negative/
BingoBoingo: mats: AMD tends to have ECC as an available option in all of their chips except the consumer stuff, and even then it usually isn't the chip where ECC is precluded.
BingoBoingo: In other news 'Quantrill' is now synced up to the beginning of 2014.
shinohai: Everyone has spiffy node names but I. I just call mine that thing in the corner.
PeterL: ^ I was just about to say the same thing!
punkman: mats, it says ECC "not working" though now. also saw a supermicro G series board that only has non-ECC
PeterL: my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again.
PeterL: Is there a way while it is running to tell it to switch back to the nodes you started it with?
punkman: PeterL, not really
shinohai: A poor toomlin got his feelings hurt
assbot: Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another? ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYt7zM )
PeterL: are chinese miners some sort of unit that all must act together?
BingoBoingo: Apparently?
BingoBoingo: At least It's what the derps think?
BingoBoingo: Even through my lens which is competely illiterate when it comes to the Chinese language, the miners seem to be having very spirited conversations.
PeterL: from the vantage point of the poor, "rich people" are also a unit which acts in a concerted manner
BingoBoingo: And for the bunny rabbit everything that moves and is not a fellow rabbit is acting in a concerted manner and an immanent threat.
BingoBoingo: F2Pool/Discus Fish is probably my favorite Chinese pool.
davout: BingoBoingo: "Qntra is the only Bitcoin news outlet committed to bringing Bitcoin news to Africa." <<< brilliant!
BingoBoingo: davout: Thank you
assbot: NACDL Amicus: Silk Road Warrant Unconstitutional According To 4th Amendment | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYuSgw )
assbot: Amid Scaling Debate, Bitcoin Core Goes on Outreach Offensive - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYuSgA )
trinque: there is a kiss of death for btcd which halts it in its tracks, does not crash.
trinque: I have seen this maybe 10 times by now
fluffypony: have you tried maybe not kissing the computer?
trinque: look, no kink-shaming
fluffypony: you're right, this is a safe space
fluffypony: for anyone reading the logs I apologise for not providing a trigger warning
BingoBoingo: And on that qntra page there's a bit more than a hundred KB of text on that page which gets compressed for transit
trinque: lol
BingoBoingo: !up drnet
BingoBoingo: !up buzz
thestringpuller: GMaxwell is ranting up reddit repeating the Visa is not Comparable with Bitcoin thing.
BingoBoingo: good for him
thestringpuller: I don't even know if I should bother reading r/btc. kills brain cells like drugs.
PeterL: Visa is not comparable with visa, doesn't everybody already know that?
PeterL: ack, visa is not comparable with bitcoin
thestringpuller: Nope. The people focused on traditional payment processing believe Bitcoin should scale to visa levels cuz "Satoshi said so"
thestringpuller: the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22977 @ 0.00055926 = 12.8501 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: aaaaah teflon mouse tape !
ascii_butugychag: what a small thing, how much less agony.
punkman: how's that
BingoBoingo: Aha, just don't heat the mouse over 500 degree farenheit
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html << cool! thanks for posting.
assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc. << very exciting stuff
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff
ascii_butugychag: which does not allow file rename operation except as a megatonne of add/subtract-lines
ascii_butugychag: and so makes it quite impossible to properly have tinyscheme-genesis FULLY MACHINE-READABLY flow into shiva genesis
ascii_butugychag: (as my instructions note, it is necessary to rename a directory after pressing tinyscheme-genesis to end up with the shiva subdir in shiva patch)
ascii_butugychag: but i will NOT tolerate a megatonne of rubbish in my vpatch just to rename a dir.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: shiva is unabashedly a beachhead to eventually have the whole thing enlisped.
ascii_butugychag: as you probably know, my original interest in 0.5.3* was ~characterization~
ascii_butugychag: (i wanted the book for a reason)
thestringpuller: yes yes. "fit in head"
ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: they gave me this surprisingly spiffy apple mouse-touchsensor-chimera, but it has gigantic rails in contact with the table, and tremendous static friction. but it turns out that teflon will make it slide aaah so nicely along, like hockey puck..
ascii_butugychag: now i am fighting a compulsion to stick that tape to the bottom of every single object on my desk
BingoBoingo: I might have to look into this tape.
ascii_butugychag: mats: so i wanted to go and read misra c, turns out it is payware ?
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: the magic mouse?
thestringpuller: or the white wireless mouse thing
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: 'magic mouse'
ascii_butugychag: the thing with the capacitance sensor top
ascii_butugychag: (quite worthless, i must note, without the aftermarker driver that lets you program new patterns in. need this in order even to have middle-click..)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35867 @ 0.0005586 = 20.0353 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: the joys of the walled garden.
ascii_butugychag: the joys of all weird proprietary hardware
PeterL: does it come with "right click", or do you have to add that?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: believe or not, it does.
ascii_butugychag: scrolling also (whole surface is a scroller, x-y)
ascii_butugychag: guten morgen mircea_popescu !
mats: ascii_butugychag: there is warez
ascii_butugychag: mats: worth leeching and spending time readin ?
ascii_butugychag: maybe give us summary ?
mod6: All: Stand-by I've made some updates to the script referenced in the wiki as to drop in the latest version of V (with the latest 3 patches in the mirror) - im gonna test it, then post it here. It'd be good to have some of you test it too.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 04:27:23; ben_vulpes: arcane linker errors coming from the "pods"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15950 @ 0.00055964 = 8.9263 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
BingoBoingo: lol, the Tor 'Tails' distro switched to systemd now
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388202 << why do the usg-tards look so much like attention whoring hipsters these days ?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 07:18:40; danielpbarron: guy died basically saving the life of the fed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo this significantly changes the bozo bit on "the tor project" from "don't install that shit" to "don't install that shit".
mod6: One notable change to the build script linked on the wiki: Since we're pressing out V in a directory that gets created by the script, there is no way to have a .wot inside this dir that it can find -- the script ~must~ reference a .wot directory somewhere outside of the entire rotor build area.
mod6: so I'm going to have the script reference ~/.wot -- this seems like a resonable place to put it -- again, V will not expect it to be there, so an additional param is placed in the V command as such:
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UQkfe3 )
mod6: ./v.pl p verbose TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch wd ~/.wot
mircea_popescu: the script ~must~ reference a .wot directory somewhere outside of the entire rotor build area. <<< wait wut ?!
mircea_popescu: this can not be
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: its "the tor project" they can't fit all of that into a single bozobit. Requires a whole base58 encoded xml bozo turd.
mod6: mircea_popescu: it has to be, there is no way that we can create and populate a .wot directory inside of a directory that is created by the script
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you can have whatever weird lisp "1" you wish for as long as it evaluates to 1 lol
mod6: .wot must be created by hand, and populated by hand.
mircea_popescu: mod6 populated by hand, yes, that was the idea.
mircea_popescu: but you're telling me script creating directory $d can't create directory $d."/.wot" ?!
mod6: make note that V does not /expect/ or /default/ to a ~/.wot dir, it just so happens in this case, that it needs to be somewhere accessable outside of the rotor build path
mircea_popescu: or however you denote string addition in that language
mircea_popescu: not to be a bitch, but for my own education.
mod6: I can do that just fine yes, but i don't think we should populate the .wot directory via script.
mircea_popescu: certainly not.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35665 @ 0.00055647 = 19.8465 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: but it should still be a subdir of the working space rather than a fixed dir somewhere
mod6: so it should be populated by hand, outside of the build path, and referenced only in the script for access.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, you might wish to run v with diff wotsets.
mod6: I can not reconcile this.
mircea_popescu: (actually half the reason to even have v is to run it with diff wotsets)
mod6: Chicken/Egg problem with that script then.
mircea_popescu: but explain it to me so i grasp it ?
mod6: brb.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: I just got one of those mice from the vending machine. (We have vending machines at work for accessories. Slowly replacing IT with robots.)
mircea_popescu: did you have to pay money for it ?!
thestringpuller: nope. it's billed to the department.
thestringpuller: 62.99 or something tho?
thestringpuller: how you gonna sell a mouse for 60 bucks
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 07:42:24; polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml
mod6: ok so lets talk this through a bit.
mod6: so the script as it currently exists, creates these directories:
mod6: mkdir -p rotor
mod6: mkdir -p rotor/toolchain
mod6: mkdir -p rotor/TEST2
mod6: then it moves into these directories to continue all of the gyrations that need to happen to build everything
ascii_butugychag: <+mircea_popescu> for one thing, you might wish to run v with diff wotsets. << YES! ~somebody~ GETs it
mircea_popescu: right mod6
mod6: ok. so if we create a .wot in /.../rotor/ (so, rotor/.wot), then it can not be populated by hand...
mircea_popescu: mkdir -p rotor/.wot
mircea_popescu: to keep to above convention
mircea_popescu: why can't it be populated by hand ?
mod6: the only actual alternative here is to create .wot adjacent to rotor directory, along with the V source
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> why can't it be populated by hand ? << how can you populate by hand while the script is running?
mircea_popescu: the way i see this is, script tries " mkdir -p rotor/.wot " , if it succeeds it says "wot dir created, populate and re-run please" ; if it fails it proceeds with build.
mircea_popescu: what's the problem with this approach ?
mod6: eh. bad things tend to happen when this script is run more than once.
mircea_popescu: that's just an error message tho.
ascii_butugychag: i still don't get why a vtron should use the net at all
mod6: this was never really meant to be "the thing" just was initially meant for testing. somehow became "the way"
mod6: so continuing with my thought here..
mircea_popescu: just like bitcoin eh ?
mod6: if we have V source and .wot adjacent to rotor dir, then we could press like the following:
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag why not ? and stop interrupting the guy!
mod6: ./v.pl p verbose rotor/TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch
mod6: so I think that could work actually.
mod6: <+ascii_butugychag> i still don't get why a vtron should use the net at all << I'm open to well defined explicit ideas here.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: you recall how mine worked ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 the only concern with "Separate but equal .wot dir root" is that you will end up in a fucking mess of /try1/.wot /tryn/.wot and mix and match them with actual builds takingpart in another place and sooner or later you'll cross them up, or your eyes will, and the net result will be that you run a different security protocol than you intended, on occasion,
mircea_popescu: and overall a weakening of the entire security scheme
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @ 0.00055965 = 31.984 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: so how about the script expects to see .wot in a relative path to the project, and if it doesn't it aborts with an error.
mircea_popescu: put the test sufficiently high up in the program flow you won't have bad things happen.
mod6: that would be fine, but then we're in the situation where every single time that someone runs it for the first time, the script will fail with an error.
mod6: and that is not a one-button-push solution as you asked for.
mircea_popescu: and that error should read "please put .wot sigs in /blabla/derpherp/.wot"
ascii_butugychag: relative path mega-sucks
ascii_butugychag: i almost always find myself with fuck knows what at relative-path-depth-n
ascii_butugychag: this was a common complaint about my rotor system also, recall
ascii_butugychag: 'whaddayamean i have to have the build tools 3 dirs out'
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag well looky, the problem there was that the dir tree wasn't curated well.
mircea_popescu: mod6 somehow in my contorted worldview what i just described does count as "push button"
ascii_butugychag: i broke my head on this for a while, and settled on '~/.wot by default, user-specified wot whenever you want' when i did vtron.
mircea_popescu: chiefly because I can aforehand know where i need to put the .wot and stick it in there.
ascii_butugychag: and if you don't do variant wots, it can live there permanently.
ascii_butugychag: if you use variants - specify the variant each time, like the laws of man and god demand.
ascii_butugychag: hand-cranked reactor controls ftw.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is actually a decent solution.
mod6: ok so lets keep in mind that v99996 of V will only look for .wot in the current working directory unless told to look elsewhere for it explicitly.
mircea_popescu: did the entire week long circuitous path start with me bitching / trying to improve on it ?
mod6: and I think this is what we want. So we can stick with that, and probably not break anything -- i'll just move V & .wot outside of the rotor dir.
mircea_popescu: i'm quickly building a reputation for a wrecker of trb aren't i !
mircea_popescu: mod6 alrighty, seems it's teh consensus here.
ascii_butugychag: having relative wots inevitably leads to keeping 10,001 copies of wot
ascii_butugychag: and all of the attendant breakages
mircea_popescu: no i finally see the light.
ascii_butugychag read the mega-patch-of-all-ages yet ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu rather
mod6: that's probably more acceptable than the following: ~/.wot by default (in the script) or stopping the script mid-processing to require human action (action should be taken prior to execution)
mircea_popescu: no dawg, im not done wioth the logs. then reading the #eulora logs which by now are even longer.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeh.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 alrighty, seems it's teh consensus here. << ok lemme put this together, and will post in here for you guys to review, and people to test.
mod6: :]
ascii_butugychag much appreciates the labours of mod6
mircea_popescu: hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t?
mircea_popescu: if anyone recalls that joke about how mathematician is the only man who tells mistress he's with wife, tells wife he's with mistress, goes to woods with pen and paper to unwind...
mircea_popescu: me types three letters in editor, hits tabs a few times, is very confused when the required fill-in doesn't occur.
mircea_popescu: "what the fuck is this piece of shit!"
ascii_butugychag whispers 'learn emacs'
ascii_butugychag: one of the 10,001 reasons why.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is emacs going to fill in with irc names.
mircea_popescu: no, i'm not ircing in emacs ty.
ascii_butugychag: will fill with whatever you like
ascii_butugychag: no, for letters
ascii_butugychag: you can specify a tag file it will fill from when tab(or your favourite other key)-completing.
ascii_butugychag: i have this semi-automated, it is quite convenient
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t? << this beats anything else I've ever encountered by a wide margin.
mod6: b-a has honest and knowledgeable people who care about the innerworkings of the technology, on a low-level, as well as on a meta level.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you know automation of it is actually an unsolvable problem, do you ?
mod6: I wouldn't trade what we have here for anything. If I could work it out, this is all I would do every day.
mircea_popescu: hanbot hey were you making a trb current build ?
mod6: Things are moving really fast here sometimes, and that can be hard to keep up with, but it's part of the deal.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: notice i said 'semi-auto'
ascii_butugychag: (fully automating just about anything is an invitation for meltdown)
mircea_popescu: wanna bet you spent more time fucking around with the auto thereof than it saved you ?
ascii_butugychag: it isn't about time as such
ascii_butugychag: it is about avoiding flow disruption
mircea_popescu: actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing
mod6: ok the new script, having V outside of the rotor dir seems to be building just fine so far... will update again when its complete, or if fails.
ascii_butugychag: yes, it could take a whole hour to set up whatever, and i might die bfore it saves me a whole hour
ascii_butugychag: BUT those 5 sec the old crud cost me every 15 min. were ~flow-destroying~.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: you should tell this to the leadership here who wants to automate all things.
mod6: ascii_butugychag much appreciates the labours of mod6 << alf, you've put in a lot of effort too, and we all appreciate that very much.
mod6: And honestly, I really look forward to working on these projects every day, and with all of you. :]
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: notice how ~some~ programmers (india!) l00000ve repetitive crudwork. they produce glorious unrolled 10,0001-iteration loops, etc.
ascii_butugychag: that is what comes of not-being-lazy
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: d00d I have to upgrade to el capitan to scroll on the mouse?!?!?
ascii_butugychag: a non-lazy programmer is about as useful as a sedentary sprinter
thestringpuller: dafuq apple.
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: install the 3rd party driver thing
ascii_butugychag: 'magicprefs'
thestringpuller breaks his macbook and gets sane Lenovo.
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: ahahahaha the one that won't suspend-mode, ah
mod6: We've come a very long way, and we've still got some road ahead (we all know), but we can't have a republic with out the sovereigns participants who wish to make it.
mod6: s/sovereigns/sovereign/
mod6: tl;dr we need all of you! you are what make the republic possible!
mod6: I may have had too much coffee...
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: hehe sometimes i'm tempted to order him some cake!
mod6: That pie looked nice tho!
ascii_butugychag: we have a whole kitchen devoted to coffee here
ascii_butugychag: at rupture farms
ascii_butugychag: i count 7 different kinds of pot
thestringpuller: and coworkers make fun of me for using terminals and lightweight tools cause they "ain't pretty" the actual fuck. this is exactly why being a web developer is like slow torture.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388260 << there shall be no further fucking referencing.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:02:07; punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it?
mod6: anyway, speaking of great things (tm), shiva really was awesome to see working lastnight. very impressive stuff. i just gotta learn scheme now hahah.
mod6: back to CompSci 101!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9850 @ 0.00055969 = 5.5129 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: i'd rather stop people in the street and ask them to make my women babies than reference whatever package maintained by nowot rando.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i closed the gap today, see the next patch.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0005597 = 1.7351 BTC [+]
ascii_butugychag: (there was ~never~ referencing in my tinyscheme thing! it began with a vtronically nailed-down copy of known vintage from my own hdd, and proceeds from there.)
punkman: it was like having two tinyscheme genesises
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388269 << this is an issue more or less in suspensiopn atm, at the fundamental level.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:29:19; jurov: I know that i should manage the repository myself, but imo a version field would be good to have so that I can easily spot if someone posts revised version of the same patch.
mod6: ascii_butugychag: i'll try to give your new patches a shot tonight.
ascii_butugychag: punkman: now there is 1, from it flows contiguously into the shivatron
BingoBoingo: For gasmask afficianados https://archive.is/pYHuj
assbot: Minority Branches ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJTl9M )
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag mod6 if you wish to consider a general problem : what is the ~correct~ thing to do for vtron when it encounters two validly signed patches doing the same thing ?
mircea_popescu: afaik atm it will apply both, in a random order ?
mircea_popescu: (undefined order)
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it will apply the one that you press to
punkman: mod6, does perl have some good diff library so we could maybe implement sane renaming/deletions?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag what do you mean "press to" ?
mircea_popescu: yeah actually what punkman said too!
mod6: punkman: good question, not sure at all. can try to take a peek once we get past the 1st. i've got stuff stacked to the celing right now
ascii_butugychag: 'press to' is how we specify which patches get applied to begin with
mircea_popescu: no i know this. i'm trying to do design work here.
ascii_butugychag: look at 'pressable' pull-handles as: degrees of freedom.
mod6 ponders this question for a minute.
punkman: you can't apply two patches that modify the same thing, at least in newer v.pl that checks hashes
ascii_butugychag: the set of all possible pressings you can end up with
ascii_butugychag: so if i submit frobs-x.vpatch and also-frobs-x.vpatch and they both reference patch frobbed-x-before.vpatch, then i can press to frob-x OR to also-frobs-x or to any other leaf.
ascii_butugychag: it does not matter worth a lick that they do the same thing.
mircea_popescu: the reason i question all this is because suddenly a possibility formed in my head, whereby v could have an equivalent of "longest chain". bitcoin does not follow THAT heuristic idly. but it must be said that a) it's a poorly defined heuristic and b) there are reasons.
ascii_butugychag: it sure does
ascii_butugychag: this was part of my design.
mircea_popescu: merely inquiring what "longest chan" ACTUALLY MEANS is a major point of actually defining bitcoin\
ascii_butugychag: and same in a vtronic animal
mircea_popescu: (and we'll likely end up stuck in THIS sort of mud pits a lot more than i nthe "obvious" ones everyone thinks about)
ascii_butugychag: 'longest chain' is the trunk of the tree, where the sap flows.
punkman: V doesn't have chain
mircea_popescu: punkman not yet, no.
ascii_butugychag: but i will note that introducing a new patch that is binary-identical to an old one, is an error.
ascii_butugychag: and ought to signal error.
ascii_butugychag: patches are binary-unique.
mircea_popescu: approach thematter from the other, practical side, maybe it's easier that way. so i made a patch that did X, then i made a patch that did X'. i consider X' to be > X.
punkman: what if two patches change two files respectively, with the same contents
mircea_popescu: a) the presser might disagree and b) the V doesn't really distinguish
ascii_butugychag: (and, as i explained very early on, cycled are an error, and anyone attempting to introduce a graph cycle deserves a good thrashing)
punkman: (never mind, filenames)
mircea_popescu: or to put it in different terms : currently the V is equivalent to a version of bitcoin where YOU are responsible for downloading blocks. it WILL verify them and form a chain,
mircea_popescu: but it is your job to find the right ones.
mircea_popescu: now. could IT find the right ones ?
mircea_popescu: (for one thing : if IT could find the right ones, add that to gossipd and we have essentially built passive autonomous system software, ie, the evil ai.)
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i spoke of this earlier today
mircea_popescu: don't tell me tis in the log i didn't get to ?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 13:27:00; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree
mircea_popescu: dude... why the same day ?
mircea_popescu: riddle me that sometime. what, brainwaves ?
ascii_butugychag points out that he has been thinking about vtronics for a VERY long time.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: well magicprefs is throwin an error (has a triangle with exclamation mark in the top bar)
mircea_popescu: so have i. which is what makes the conicidence interesting.
mircea_popescu: like comatose patients waking up the same time.
thestringpuller: y u do dis apple. I just want to use a mouse
mod6: i wonder if we couldnt find 'the right ones' with some sort of merkle tree that represents the best chain.
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: sacrifice a goat to satan
mircea_popescu: mod6 or some sort of tree at ay rate!
mircea_popescu: anyway. nightmare fuel.
mod6: hehehe. interesting thoughts here today. i need to think on this stuff.
mircea_popescu: now, one obvious solution (wasn't obvious to me at the time what it was a solution to) is to INCLUDE COMMENTS in the patches, like i did with my only signed patch i didn't really intended as part of a final pressing
mircea_popescu: this way the human gardener can review and arbitrate the matter and i (at least hopefully) won't get negrated for it breaking shit.
ascii_butugychag: aha, the format allows for it
mircea_popescu: so at the least a hook for human debugging to save us from cold equationism IS provided.
ascii_butugychag: but in point of fact, the v-chain aspect prevents a mistake from catastrophically breaking the world
ascii_butugychag: it simply gets orphaned.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> thestringpuller: sacrifice a goat to satan << It's heretic apple, gotta sacrifice satan to a goat since woz is gone.
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha
mod6: not to worry about your signed genesis tho - i gardened it out. the mirror just has the right one.
ascii_butugychag: i posted probably the most kB of unusable but validly signed crapolade to the ml
mircea_popescu: and most of it improperly commented, also!
ascii_butugychag: but none of it would break a single bolt anywhere
ascii_butugychag: because not longest vchain.
mircea_popescu: you do a miserable job of comments, btw. the thing with "only four bit state" has its disadvantages.
mircea_popescu: YOU NEED NUANCE ALFIE!
ascii_butugychag: if had moar time, would write beautiful illuminated manuscripts, sure.
ascii_butugychag: as it is, a single day's worth of shiva took a fucking week
mircea_popescu: yeah, there is that.
ascii_butugychag: shave half of face, submit patch, shave other half, etc
mod6: as far as comments in the vpatch that are mearly just for archaeological or annotative purposes, i think something could be done here especially when we get our own diff/patch.
punkman: comments work in gnudiff too
ascii_butugychag: mod6: gnudiff is a miserable straightjacket (see earlier monologue re: renaming)
ascii_butugychag: ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation
mod6: yup, eventually this could be a thing though, if we build our own tool
ascii_butugychag: so, e.g., mircea_popescu's retabbing, would be a five-line patch
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
punkman: ascii_butugychag: how would we shorten the retabbing?
mod6: <+ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << ok sure, this could be a separate feature of V i guess... have to think on this.
ascii_butugychag: turing-complete vtron
punkman: well that'd be a fun rabbit hole
ascii_butugychag: all rabit holes go to same place.
mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << quite this, tho we might have to get there in steps.
mod6: im just excited to use something called 'sexpr'
punkman: sexpurr
mod6: :D
ascii_butugychag: i'ma have to come up with a slime for shiva, incidentally
ascii_butugychag: (this is mentioned obliquely in the shiva.cpp commments)
ascii_butugychag: maybe this is a ben_vulpes job
ascii_butugychag: (or adlai ?)
ascii_butugychag: do we have any adlai patches yet ?
ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell adlai wanna become a hero ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: i've gotta take a crash course in scheme very quickly or I won't be able to make heads or tails out of these code submissions. eek!
ascii_butugychag: mod6: fortunately it is the world's simplest, possibly, usable language
adlai: mod6: you're already making lisp jokes, even if you don't get them yet!
mod6: hehehe.
ascii_butugychag: adlai: i implanted a scheme runtime in a trb.
adlai: (head . tail) === (car . cdr) etc
mod6: how much does actual scheme differ from common lisp or lisp? can i get a book for lisp (whatever latest megabook alf has posted recently) or do I need a scheme specific book?
adlai: ascii_butugychag: yes, i've been following along quietly. not sure what you mean by "a slime", literally interpreted this is rather meaningless as most of the swank-backends is highly CL specific stuff... i guess you mean a less literal interpretation :)
mircea_popescu: not that much
ascii_butugychag: differs in a number of ways
adlai: !s sicp
assbot: 18 results for 'sicp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sicp
ascii_butugychag: mainly in being 'lisp-1'
ascii_butugychag: sicp is THE b00k.
ascii_butugychag: mega-recommended.
mod6: thats the one 'eh. thx guise.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, phree on vendor site.
assbot: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkcUVL )
ascii_butugychag: adlai: 'a slime' in the sense of plugging an emacs session straight into the interpreter, with 'eval-region', 'eval current sexpr', as well as separate pane with repl, etc.
mircea_popescu: mit used to be a very respectable institution, merely a few decades ago.
mircea_popescu: just like oxford used to matter at some point in its history.
mod6: werd.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: i mark the demise of mit as the moment when they abolished the sicp course
mircea_popescu: (different field, but same principle - you to this day can't beat literature as read at oxford cca 1880ish, just like you can't really beat it from mit cca 1960. the latter branch is obvious here, but the former'd be just as obvious in a literature-powered ba)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143150 @ 0.00055762 = 79.8233 BTC [-] {6}
mod6: ascii_butugychag: interesting they would abolish teaching something they created.
mircea_popescu: not "they".
mircea_popescu: this is like saying that the nignog "egyptians" abolishing the pyramids is "something they created"
mircea_popescu: look at the statues, entirely different people.
adlai: mod6: new-MIT decided that s/scheme/python/ would welp more fungible cogs
mod6: mircea_popescu: makes sense.
mod6: adlai: ah, right.
adlai: this was literally their justification
mod6: heheheh.
adlai: maybe they didn't use the words 'fungible' and 'cog', but it was justified as what junior devs need to pass interviews
mod6: aight, i better get me some lunch to soak up this coffee. bbs.
mod6: (build is still going, hopefully will be done soon - will let you all know. salud!)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388299 << this is actually not a half bad idea for a sort of "sauron" mode.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 11:31:05; punkman: ideally turdatron would press all the possible HEADs and let us see them in lxr
mircea_popescu: which may be needed now and again.
adlai: ascii_butugychag: might be smoother sailing to start off from comint-mode and work upwards, rather than trying to fit slime onto so different a backend
ascii_butugychag: !s sussman
assbot: 23 results for 'sussman' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sussman
ascii_butugychag: he wrote a formal letter of surrender to the rot
ascii_butugychag: which is imho an important historical document
ascii_butugychag: marking the permanent end of mit
ascii_butugychag: as a cultural institution.
ascii_butugychag: (sussman and abelson were the creators of scheme, authors of sicp, and taught the course)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @ 0.00056037 = 21.0139 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_butugychag: ;;google sussman cowardly surrender
gribble: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python | Hacker News: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530605>; Why Did M.I.T. Switch from Scheme to Python? | Hacker News: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=602307>; Video Shows Washington Cops Executing Fleeing Man - PINAC News: <https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/02/washington-cops-shoot-kill-fleeing-man-threw-rocks-cars/>
ascii_butugychag: first link.
phf: there are slime backends for schemes, the one for mit/scheme locs 800, but probably includes inspect and support for restarts, which are not needed for poc
phf: i briefly looked at writing a backend for pre-shiva tinyscheme, but it lacks network ports
ascii_butugychag: phf: i have a patch for adding actual tcp to ts
ascii_butugychag: but imho this is not needed yet.
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: these lisp tentacles are rather spiffy
adlai sets aside comint-mode, seems dead-end idea
adlai: !up ascii_butugychag
phf: is the approach to spin up thread/socket on trb side? current "telnet" could be extended to swank protocol
phf: adlai: contrib/swank-mit-scheme.scm
ascii_butugychag: phf: precisely what i did. see the code.
ascii_butugychag: current thing is useless for swank though because it spins up a fresh lisp for each connection
ascii_butugychag: this will have to be dealt with
adlai: phf: comint (and slime's maximal comfort zone) is for interacting with inferior processes that emacs spawn
adlai: `slime-connect` is a better starting point
adlai: slime's repl and inspector contribs are the most relevant bits
phf: adlai: i have no idea what you're trying to say
adlai: slime is a massive turd, most of which is totally irrelevant for shiva (unless bitcoin-os is planned to serve as yet another example of Greenspun's 10th)
phf: ok.
ascii_butugychag: adlai: satan forbid we use any code actually ~in~ slime !!11
ascii_butugychag: was trying to describe the ~idea~ to n00bz.
adlai: the subset of "all slime functionality", which do seem to me relevant for shiva, are the repl (history, presentations), the fancy-inspector (designed for CLOS objects, might be neutered+mutated deal with C++), and perhaps sldb
ascii_butugychag: typing straight into a shell SUCKS
adlai: ascii_butugychag: sure, i'm taking slime-the-~idea~ and trying to "take away everything that doesn't look like an elephant"
adlai: to me, and i imagine to programmers who have done CL work recently, "slime" means a lot of things that you do NOT want
adlai also wanders off to eat
ascii_butugychag: adlai: to me it simply means 'i don't have to leave my editor and FUCK NO I AM NEVER pasting code into a motherfucking shell 10000000 time a day'
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> this will have to be dealt with << doesn't seem terribly hard.
ascii_butugychag: it is a little tricky
ascii_butugychag: because right now a lisp terminates if it loses its i/o pipe
ascii_butugychag: whereas a persistent lisp will need a reconnectable pipe and this will require surgery inside tinyscheme's intestines
ascii_butugychag: also it will need some means of restarting it if the repl is hosed
mircea_popescu: was just saying in principle, should be doable.
ascii_butugychag: doable yes. but in the same sense as the thing i just did, was doable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13121 @ 0.00056042 = 7.3533 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Abstract Heresies: Not Lisp again.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1PF9dnR )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41450 @ 0.00056174 = 23.2841 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48214 @ 0.00055527 = 26.7718 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85586 @ 0.00054357 = 46.522 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: once you understand how scheme's tail call optimization works, you are well on your way to actually grasping the thing
ascii_butugychag: (if you have the patience, watch the films, even, they are interesting in a number of ways incl. historically)
BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: I guess I got to now. Shiva represents first serious mega-weaponized divergence of trb from prb
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell danielpbarron please to point ms. peck (https://twitter.com/morgenpeck) to http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/letter-to-morgen-e-peck-january-29-2016.txt using all your grace and charm. cheers!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: i'm confused about how v presses. i thought it was along the shortest path, but it actually does topological sort and then works with resulting list. so if my topo is a b d c f and i ask to press c, then i get a b d c?
ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: not really divergence
ascii_butugychag: it's a laboratory instrument
ascii_butugychag: phf: correct
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ironically, consider the historical aspect. vc's strategic mistake to NOT submit early and well ensured that they don't have a voice at the one time it'd have mattered. now they're getting locked out of bitcoin, which means computing, and what'll mit do, switch back to scheme because THAT is what junior devs will need to get jobs ?
shinohai: !up ascii_butugychag
mircea_popescu: you can't switch back. once you've decided to take the hardwood floor and light your stove with it, you can't then decide to take stove ash and make a floor.
mircea_popescu: and so... nobody could have foreseen all the way to chad.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah exactly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59150 @ 0.00054424 = 32.1918 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: the shortest path thing is not only premature optimization but also a very mangled sort of heuristic.
mircea_popescu: it DOES work for bitcoin (in blockchain terms it's "longest chain"), but altogether it's not clear WHY it works
mircea_popescu: (or even WHETHER it actually works. hence all the - equally unexamined and inept - prb derpage about "blessed" chains)
mircea_popescu: that came in a few different flavours historically, and amusingly all unaware of their communion and unadressing it.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388376 << lulz. /me wonders if this "would-be defendent" resides in tmsr~
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:36:41; BingoBoingo: And the lolz roll on https://i.imgur.com/Q2X24B7.png
phf: if i have files a b and patches x y z, x is genesis, y does a->a', z does b->b', topo sort x z y. if i were to ask for y press, i also get z, whether i need it or not. conversly if i press z, i don't get y.
punkman: phf, my "shortest path" algo is to recursively find all antecedents of the patch I want to press. it's useful.
mircea_popescu: phf in the example you gave the implication is you NEED z.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:29:59; PeterL: my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again.
mircea_popescu: if you didn't need Z then y should have been x'
mircea_popescu: im sorry, i mean : if you didn't need y, then y should have been z'.
phf: so in the above example x y z are distinct patches, their effect is to take files through states, a, a', a". so if a patch takes a->a', then it needs a in genesis. if a patch takes a'->a" then it needs genesis and a->a' patch. i was trying to indicate that y and z modify two separate files, i'm trying to see what is there that indicates that state (a' b') is desirable over (a' b)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388324 <<< the end point, of course, whether is obvious or not, is to fix the half-assed braindamage that are the coin scripts.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 13:20:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc.
phf: right now it seems like an artifact of topo sort
mircea_popescu: phf nothing in the physical situation as you describe it indicates that. nevertheless, the implicit meaning in how the topo sort owrks is that you need a to a' for b to b' to be meaningful. this could be because one is .h and the other .cpp, fopr instance, or becauise other stuff is coming later or for any other reason
mircea_popescu: because people didn't make both y and z first level nodes of x, people are indicating that whether you know why or not, you need a->a' for b->b'.
mircea_popescu: nothing of course prevents you from taking z and rebasing it as a first level node off x.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00055788 = 15.3975 BTC [+]
phf: a way to indicate (a->a' b->b') would normally be to include them both in a single patch. i think that's how it's done now
mircea_popescu: yes but we for very good reason do not want multi-issue patches.
mircea_popescu: so in full terms, i would say that again, including both in the same patch is both premature optimization and a kludge.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 16:06:03; thestringpuller: how you gonna sell a mouse for 60 bucks
mircea_popescu: just, in a metaprogramming sense that did not exist prior to V putting light on the issue.
mircea_popescu: at least afaik.
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: rat9 suxx, you can have mine for the cost of postage
ascii_butugychag: fuicking nonstandard crud
ascii_butugychag: won't function reliably on any linux box.
pete_dushenski: ascii_butugychag: nor on osx 10.6 !
pete_dushenski: i have one. it's for sale on local classifieds
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: supposedly there is an x11 patch to make it go
ascii_butugychag: but i just can't be arsed
mircea_popescu: polarbeard :
mircea_popescu: . i'm with punkman in that if you're going to prefix in that much detail, there's going to have to be some sort of filtering scheme. i'm not with him that flags are the solution, it just seems an ad-hoc hack unix did that got carried forward. i'm still partial to my multi-logfiles idea, fwiw. altogether a lot more thought must be put into "how to structure" this, but sadly it depends on a fully specified bitcoin, so it
mircea_popescu: 's just going to have to tandem for a while.
mircea_popescu: . i'm with ben_v (and apparently ascii too) in that it's really best practice to make patches small and issue-focused. it's not just a matter of review, it's to ease future rebasing and so on. as antidesign it may seem to you personally on the basis of workflow, this is one of those things where individual has to take a small step back to allow society altogether to exist.
mircea_popescu: so plox, restate that as a chain.
pete_dushenski: ascii_butugychag: nor i. rat9 looked spiffy but chewed through swappable battery in ~5 hours. even when 'worked' it twitched and jumped and spasmed and triggered all kinds of inane shit. couldn't even highlight menu bar drop-downs.
mircea_popescu: you two made me google that damned thing. seriously, a mouse ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136500 @ 0.0005443 = 74.297 BTC [-] {5}
ascii_butugychag: i got one as a gift from an old chum
punkman: mircea_popescu: so how would you split polarbeard's patch?
ascii_butugychag: it is heavy, metal, has screws and ratchets for adjustment, etc.
ascii_butugychag: looked spiffy
ascii_butugychag: but then i plugged it in...
mircea_popescu: punkman the rotating log fix separate from the rest, for one thing.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it bothered me that polarbeard apparently does not yet fully grasp that every line he writes is a unit of ~work~ for other people to do.
ascii_butugychag: hard work.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of stuff in there that will necessarily result in a huge patch (the guy is stuck, willy-nilly, doing a lot of
mircea_popescu: - return error("CBlock::WriteToDisk() : ftell failed");
mircea_popescu: 1601+ return error(SBLK "failure wrting block file %d to disk due invalid stream position", nFileRet);
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: the patch ended up being a bit verbose, yep, but it made sense to me fixing the messages as I was adding metadata, that's why I didn't add filtering, to not add actual logic to an already pretty big patch
mircea_popescu: which is VERY commendable.
mircea_popescu: but it's also immense and should all be one single patch so we can see it more readily.
ascii_butugychag: the way to reduce the work is to NOT DISRUPT FLOW
ascii_butugychag: 1 kind of thing - must be together
mircea_popescu: polarbeard yeah, you get the right idea, but seriously, making a single patch consisting of JUST -return error +return error is the right way
ascii_butugychag: so i can ask the same question, line after line, for a whole patch
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag has a good rule of thumb there.
polarbeard: also I thought you can dump to console and grep until we reach consensus on how we want to do the actual log splitting and filtering
mircea_popescu: note that the only way i got my apparently very controversial /s /t patch to even be considered was showing how it could be machined.
mircea_popescu: polarbeard that part is fine, yes.
mircea_popescu: note however you should dump to file not to console. because otherwise mess of tee's
polarbeard: mess of tees?
mircea_popescu: yes, if you just dump into console i'm going to have to pipe the program throuygh a bunch of different greps
punkman: polarbeard: the thing usually runs as a daemon
polarbeard: oh no, just one and one tee
mircea_popescu: depends how many greps i want lol.
polarbeard: xargs -I'@' sh -c 'echo \"@\" |cut -d\" \" -f1,3- | tee \$(echo \"@\" | cut -d\" \" -f2)'
polarbeard: for the priority
polarbeard: one field forward for the category, if you want both then yes, more piping
mircea_popescu: the point is that people running bitcoind have a whole array of measures, which mostly work as cat logfile | mess
mircea_popescu: or whatevs, tail logfile | mess for teh realtime stuff
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
polarbeard: yeah, I understand people don't want to run rube-goldberg machines
thestringpuller: In other DERP, gavin apparently didn't read the hard fork missile crisis: http://gavinandresen.ninja/minority-branches
polarbeard: I'm open to suggestions but now I'm a bit saturated of this, I'll somewhere else for some days...
polarbeard: *look
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: one of the items i have in mind for shivafication is sane event logging
ascii_butugychag: (who/what/where/when etc)
polarbeard: punkman: yes, the rube-goldberg pipe was inteded to be used as a nohup'd tail on debug.log
thestringpuller: "And minoritycoins will be worth much less than majoritycoins, because they are worse in every practical way. They take longer to confirm, fewer people accept them for payment, they are protected by less hash power, and they are much more difficult to transact safely." << Not if majority coin is sunk early on and money flees to minority coin. What "actual" economists is this d00d hanging out with that "vetted his scaling propos
mircea_popescu: polarbeard don't get this wrong, you did a lot of very useful work in that patch.
mircea_popescu: the best way forward, imo, is to restructure it as 1) one large patch consisting of nothing but the return fixes and some smaller patches doing the rest of the stuff built on top of that.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller minority coins may be "worse in every practical way", but they are BETTER in the only way that matters : minority doesn't inflate, majority does.
mircea_popescu: THIS is how bitcoin, the "minority coin" par excellence, kicked fiat's teeth in.
mircea_popescu: and this is how bitcoin will continue to kick the teeth in of any sort of fiat, no matter how superficially bitcoinized.
mircea_popescu: specifically because "majority is better than minority in every practical way" except the one way that actually matters, which the majority is never willing to confront.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 18:01:06; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell danielpbarron please to point ms. peck (https://twitter.com/morgenpeck) to http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/letter-to-morgen-e-peck-january-29-2016.txt using all your grace and charm. cheers!
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: you're the best :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00056045 = 25.5565 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: polarbeard make sense ?
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: yep, will come back with a task-unified group of patches
mircea_popescu: i'm slowly discovering what an IMMENSE help to debugging and code maintenance this thematic unity thing is, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: jesus god how did people manage codebases pre v.
polarbeard: usually there is a lot of blind trust involved
polarbeard: I appreciate this way though
ascii_butugychag: with raw walrus skins, and bare teeth
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: note how i cut the shiva patch in 2
ascii_butugychag: for thematic unity
ascii_butugychag: (i.e. part 1 can be mechanically-litmused: 'this only adds the ts genesis material')
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the other point : even if scheme does in the end become an integral part of sane error management a) his work is very important for providing the structure that'll illuminate that and b) will prolly be mostly reused strings in different wrapping anyway.
mircea_popescu: so there's no conflict there.
ascii_butugychag: i see nothing wrong with cleaning up classical error handlers, etc, so long as it is done in line with the flow principle described earlier.
ascii_butugychag: (and questions like 'is this ONLY a format change' ought to be answerable mechatronically)
mircea_popescu: well i'm not willing to stake on that, because what the fuck do you know we'll discover. but at least as an expected ideal, yeah.
ascii_butugychag: the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others
ascii_butugychag: and respect the worth of the time.
ascii_butugychag: i originally did not publish the thing that is now shiva because i was not comfortable with asking friends to read 5,000 lines of tinyscheme.
ascii_butugychag: and still not sure if anyone will do it
ascii_butugychag: properly digesting c crud is heavy work.
punkman: we need a reading guide
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Letter to Morgen E. Peck, freelance writer - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/29/letter-to-morgen-e-peck-freelance-writer/
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this harkens back to such a more lovely time in the computer lab.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388601 << /me is astonished this needed articulating
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 16:35:23; mircea_popescu: actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing
ben_vulpes: imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating
ben_vulpes: you'd probably snap the thing in half
mircea_popescu: or keep one running at all times, or or or.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00054645 = 11.5301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: punishment doesn't necessarily have to be a spur of a moment thing, i'm not training dogs.
ben_vulpes: no - /in session/.
ben_vulpes: running cane - demands pause.
mircea_popescu: i'd prolly end up with multiple timed canesa
ben_vulpes: programming similarly is not a supur of the moment.
mircea_popescu: like old style shooters
ben_vulpes: spur* of the moment exercise.
mircea_popescu: have a girl on the side to reload 'em
mircea_popescu: sounds like actually an improvbement over current caning best practices.
ben_vulpes: but the w4ste!
ben_vulpes: a whole gurl just to supply extra canes in case yours hangs?!
mircea_popescu: hey, the whole thing's predicated on productive waste.
mircea_popescu: that what female enslavement is all about in the first place.
ben_vulpes: just wait the thirty seconds randomly five times per event, having a spare on hand will never pay off.
mircea_popescu: like any other intellectual endeavour to date.
mircea_popescu: it does pay off because of teh social roles.
ben_vulpes: the fifteen second interruption has mega cognitive costs.
mircea_popescu: this is what he said.
ben_vulpes: it is the hole through which distraction slips in and focus dribbles out.
ben_vulpes: automation is productive waste.
ben_vulpes: it was inadequately articulated for my taste.
ben_vulpes: and deserves more of a place in the lgos.
ben_vulpes: anyways.
mircea_popescu: all the shit you boys do just to get to pretend like you don't need any adhd meds.
mod6: ok folks, my build succeeded with the changes to moving V outside of the rotor directory.
mod6: here are my changes, please review and try this out:
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
mod6: you just need to create a .wot dir and place keys in there, then (in the same directory do this): `./build-bitcoind-v99996.sh`
hanbot: oh hey. mod6, i'm ezbake-ovening that now!
mod6: the one I just posted?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:02:40; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this harkens back to such a more lovely time in the computer lab.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: neato!
ascii_butugychag: i confess that i've been using my ancient vtron. but will prolly switch to mod6's industrial-strength one very soon
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you know, "thinking of the work this means".
hanbot: mod6> the one I just posted? << yeah
mod6: hanbot: ok awesome. let me know how it goes.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: ah!
hanbot: will do
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: do you recall the article you wrote about the meaning of money ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388379 << lmao that is pretty much the picture-perfect image of what makes any lawyer retch.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:41:47; BingoBoingo: In other feelings https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1343716.msg13712823#msg13712823
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag aha
ascii_butugychag: the one about what jobs you were willing to take when you were a consultant
ascii_butugychag: so... that.
mircea_popescu: yeah but it folk's been whores for so many years now...
ascii_butugychag: whores come in 10,001 breeds
mircea_popescu: this is also true.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388381 << dude writing that formed his ideas about the world watching cheap tv entertainment. "chinese" is this sole guy, very polite, slanty eyes.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:42:20; PeterL: are chinese miners some sort of unit that all must act together?
mod6: trinque shinohai ben_vulpes polarbeard & anyone else who wants to test the new V & buildscript [v99996]: http://dpaste.com/2WQCDKX.txt
ascii_butugychag: i just brought a set of sparse matrices to orgasm, for instance
mircea_popescu: in what notation ?
ascii_butugychag: buncha gmp calls, in c.
trinque tips hat to mod6
mircea_popescu: what, no pagelong paranthesises ?
ascii_butugychag: at the other end of the sausage-maker - precisely them
ascii_butugychag: perhaps when mircea_popescu wrote 'it folks have become whores' he was thinking of 'crack whore'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388394 << current wisdom is mere dos through resource exhaustion
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:55:07; trinque: there is a kiss of death for btcd which halts it in its tracks, does not crash.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i just meant they've been living in a particular half-world for a while now.
mircea_popescu: wasn't the case pre-gates, say.
trinque: I... have it on a restart cron job... and I feel dirty.
ascii_butugychag: trinque: how come you're using heathen bitcoinatron, again ?
ascii_butugychag: is a heathen thing, in heathen tongue
mircea_popescu: trbtcd neh ?
trinque: am waiting for that one to sync
ascii_butugychag: nah iirc he is actually using a product called btcd, by one conformal co.
mircea_popescu: o wait, the java one one or w/e it was ?
ben_vulpes: it looked better than prb back in the day
trinque: golang
mircea_popescu: right. back in the day it was actually more promising
mircea_popescu: i even said this at some point.
ben_vulpes: as did i
assbot: Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ts4dZA )
ascii_butugychag: when just about any alternative to prb looked spiffy
mircea_popescu: they failed to do anything with that advantage tho
ben_vulpes: their blog has even gone to spamseed
mircea_popescu: well other than get bogged down in / give a shit about inept nonsense being thrown their way.
mircea_popescu: not having leader sheep sucks.
trinque: yep, I have a ticket open to have an SSD put in my new box,b ut am awaiting response from the (disappointing) new DC
mircea_popescu: lol kink shaming
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388410 << or that satoshi said a bunch of dumb shit, a fact both obvious to the naked eye and plainly admitted by the repentant perpetrator himself.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:08:20; thestringpuller: the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388421 << of course nothing would prevent us at this stage to take either gnudiff or any shell diff, gut it, make it into proper vdiff and forget they ever existed.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff
mircea_popescu: whoa mom, check me out, i made it through yet another day of these here kiloline logs!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158500 @ 0.00056045 = 88.8313 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: Slashdot Media, which owns the popular websites SourceForge and Slashdot, has been sold to SourceForge Media, LLC, a subsidiary of web publisher BIZX, LLC << o check it out, moar spam.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: what i want is not a gutted corpse of gnudiff, but a turing-complete vtron
ascii_butugychag: where i can include arbitrary transforms.
ascii_butugychag: and i originally thought 'let's take & clean gnudiff' and barfed ten times.
ascii_butugychag: the whole shit soup toolchain needs to die
ascii_butugychag: and be cremated
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that article is fucking epic. dude's so pointedly answering from a web-cattle farmer locus it's hysterical.
mircea_popescu: “Our plans for Slashdot include supporting the mission of Slashdot’s slogan, ‘news for nerds, stuff that matters,'” he said. “The site has millions of loyal users that visit and engage on the site each month, and we want to do the things necessary to keep Slashdot positioned as the best technology-centric news and discussion site on the web. We do not plan any radical changes, and will keep the opinions of th
mircea_popescu: e Slashdot user base in mind at all times.”
mircea_popescu: “Well, I’m not sure I completely agree that Slashdot is less vital these days or has lost its luster,” he replied. “It serves millions of unique viewers each month, which we think is pretty significant.
ascii_butugychag: wasn't it sold to spammers years ago?!
mircea_popescu: “We see the Slashdot community as a vibrant community made up of industry professionals and enthusiasts that are extremely passionate about tech, tech news and discussion, many of which have been active and engaged for over a decade,” he added.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag how do you think it lost its luster.
mircea_popescu: just continuing down the road.
mircea_popescu: slash-dottie's first short skirt, slash-dottie's first drunken sexual encounter, slash-dottie's first gangbang, where's that pic of sharon stone
ascii_butugychag: slash-dottie's first shovel rape.
ascii_butugychag: ('turkish wedding' (tm) (r))
assbot: Greenspuns Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ2h5u )
mircea_popescu: "This is one of those things that seem true for those who have gotten spoiled by the windowing environment. The reason this can't be considered true is that at some point, you have to specify (or get down to) a ModelOfComputation, and the one most programmers use is simply different than LISP which is very different since it has no definition of MachineTypes?. See ConfusedComputerScience."
mircea_popescu: because MOST matters, in computing, right ?
mircea_popescu: it pays to re-read the classics.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: http://imgur.com/a/hMs4a << who wants to guess how this happened
assbot: wut - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ35qS )
ascii_butugychag: ^ failure of in-band signalling !11111111
phf: you're trying to wire a latex renderer on top of logs?
ascii_butugychag: definitely wasn't ~trying~ to end up like this
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what
ascii_butugychag: riddle - what kind of bug produced this.
ascii_butugychag: answer, of course, is that it wasn't a bug.
ascii_butugychag: just a graphical www browser with 'mathml' enabled.
mircea_popescu: seems a pretty weak convention
mircea_popescu: seriously, replace all "in" ?
ben_vulpes: (unrelated: www.northofreality.com/tales/2016/1/27/wealth-appreciation)
mircea_popescu: and all ./ ?
ascii_butugychag: in-band signalling (i.e. 'this magic sequence of characters anywhere in the text launches the rockets') suxxxx.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it wasn't 'ALL in'
ascii_butugychag: it was 'magic trigger and after it, replace...'
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: unless it's the magic bits to dump the launch codes back down the pipe
ascii_butugychag: somehow this magic ended up in the html.
phf: i remember there was a pretty big stink when firefox was magic sequencing xml files as rss feeds years ago
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag would you stop trying to be cute. in band signalling is the only fucking signalling there is, until you invent telepathy.
mircea_popescu: the discussion is whether you're an educated sort of dude with collapsed bands, or a barbarian needing "multiple" but somehow magically not infinity-many bands
ascii_butugychag: there is also 'what follows is N bits which will behave AS BITS' or 'what follows is M bits which are launch code.'
mircea_popescu: all bits are bits.
ascii_butugychag: yes but the fundamental debate is about how to interpret.
mircea_popescu: consider the epic failuire of private messages to gather import or relevance in the trb and you;'ll have a fine illustration of why multiband is retarded.
ascii_butugychag: is it 'magic code can come ~any time~' or 'magic code specified in WELL-DEFINED place'
mircea_popescu: there is no shortcut to resolve the interpretation conundrum.
ascii_butugychag: there is, however, the ample retardation of the 'any time' variant.
mircea_popescu: "i know what he said, but what did he MEAN by it ?"
ascii_butugychag: i do not WANT any-time.
ascii_butugychag: it sucketh, verily.
ascii_butugychag: these - behave.
mircea_popescu: how so ? they pop in at any time
mircea_popescu: just like their unruly, ill behaved irl counter... parts.
ascii_butugychag: i'm on a console term
mircea_popescu: so YOU fixed your broken interpretatron! good.
mircea_popescu: now do that universally.
ascii_butugychag: i can only do that here because no math in the chan
ascii_butugychag: when collaborating mathematically, i am stuck with MOTHERFUKING chalkboards
mircea_popescu: i like boards so much im actually going to buy one just for slavegirl training.
mircea_popescu: it also pleases me no end some of teh womenz have reached that pinnacle of intellectual achievement where one's needed.
ascii_butugychag: whatcha teaching'em
ascii_butugychag: analysis?
mircea_popescu: hey, best part of physics lab was the blackboard imo
mircea_popescu: ah, mno, gotta be one to see the curricula :D
ascii_butugychag pictures chalkboard with parts of kalash diagrammed
mircea_popescu: blackboard is a thing of thought. what's on it, less important.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally mircea_popescu will be very pleased to learn that over here we have crappy ersatz american non-chalky boards
ascii_butugychag: with ink markers
mircea_popescu: i can actually live with those.
mircea_popescu: they're not terribru. better colors.
ascii_butugychag: one can buy reduced-stink markers
mircea_popescu: lol i always wondered why us highschoolers didn't get into toluene huffing\
ascii_butugychag: but i find that there is something palpably... unmathematical, about 'whiteboards'
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: who said they didn't
mircea_popescu: lower perceived resistence of the medium ?
ascii_butugychag: i still remember the whanging headaches i got just from sitting in front row
mircea_popescu: it's mathematical alright, just i guess unsatisfying for a wholly unrelated biological cue
mircea_popescu: anyway. the value of the blackboard is a sort of peripheral remanence of summary.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, ever use a 'boogie board' ?
ascii_butugychag: i really wish they came in full man size
mircea_popescu: actually, there's a cartoon of all thiongs that best illustrates what a blackboard is as a device of thought. lemme see if i can fish it out\
assbot: Animaniacs - The ACME Song - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ4IVG )
ascii_butugychag: ('boogie' is an a5-sized slate thing that changes colour from pressure, and has a button, press and it erases to black. runs on tiny watch battery.)
thestringpuller: you've watched the animaniacs
ascii_butugychag watched, when came to usa
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag srsly, watch that vid.
ascii_butugychag: and i saw it again too when mircea_popescu linked it 1st time
mod6: hanbot: everything going ok? is it building or, having any hangups/questions?
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389021 << i was going to suggest this but figured i'd keep reading logs to see if someone beat me to it :D
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:13:35; mod6: you just need to create a .wot dir and place keys in there, then (in the same directory do this): `./build-bitcoind-v99996.sh`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4741 @ 0.00054581 = 2.5877 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: thanks danielpbarron -- hey please give this a try if you can. I figured that you might be a good one to simplify the steps and up date the wiki as soon as we get some confirmation that all is good with the script
mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever?
phf: so we have files a, b and patches x, y, z. x is genesis. y is a->a'. z is a'->a" b->b'. the way v connects the graph is x-y x-z y-z, i.e. patches that have hunks that share state for a file in before and after are connected. it is explicitly not a transition graph, which would be x-y y-z (since you can't apply z on top of x without first applying y)?
mircea_popescu: i guess it would be a transition graph, at least in most cases.
mircea_popescu: why do you ask ?
mircea_popescu: note that (as per discussion today and intention throughout) your z should really be stated as z1 a' -> a'' ; z2 b -> b'
mircea_popescu: this remains true even if we go from a, b being files to them being blocks, or themes, or other reasonable division.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
phf: i remember ascii suggesting that perhaps we should stick to one hunk per patch, but that's not the case right with existing patches. if z thematically needs to touch two different files (a and b), then both modifications are inside a single patch
mircea_popescu: that situation may occur, and it is a signal that the way code is split into files is broken and needs fixing, i guess.
mircea_popescu: but this line is i suppose not germane to your inquiry so let's let it be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25720 @ 0.00054369 = 13.9837 BTC [-]
phf: i think it's relevant, but i need to reflect how. fwiw right now there's a bunch of vpatches that modify multiple files at the same time
ascii_butugychag: phf: the idea is that those are semantically related
ascii_butugychag: and don't want to be dealt with separately
ascii_butugychag: the reason why i once suggested breaking up all patches into atomic patchons is that right now we have a stricter than necessary dependency flow
mircea_popescu: phf well yes but using v as an ideal object vs using v as applied to the world's most patently deranged pile of cathair and wet noodles.
mircea_popescu: i don't think you can find anyone who both read bitcoin source and thinks the file split is sane.
ascii_butugychag: i thought he was speaking of vpatches
mircea_popescu: for that matter the level of abstraction displayed justifies the use of MAYBE three files, otherwhise it really looks like the guy wrote the whole thing on one scroll so to speak.
phf: ascii_butugychag: i am speaking of vpatches, i'm starting to grok that mp is speaking at a different level of abstraction
mircea_popescu: did we get lost ?
mircea_popescu: were you talking about ml elements or something ?
hanbot: say mod6 (or whoever else knoweth), given keys in .wot dir are to be named by wot identity a la mod6, what am i to name korsgaard's key, since he's not in wot?
mircea_popescu: try just korsgaard
mod6: place that key on your gnupg keyring via --import
mircea_popescu: mod6 no but she needs to name the file something
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> try just korsgaard << i guess you could try this
ascii_butugychag: keyring?!!
mircea_popescu: yeah how are keyrings involved in v again ?
ascii_butugychag: in no way!
phf: we've been through this
mod6: only in the context of verifying the packages signatures
ascii_butugychag: FUCK keyrings.
mod6: this is basically outside of V
ascii_butugychag: it is a gpg atavism
mircea_popescu: mod6 ah that yeah.
phf: v is used to press the source only, but there's a bunch of shit happening outside of v, including verifying some third party package signed by this korsgaard guy
ascii_butugychag: ah buildroot
hanbot: oh so i don't actually need korsgaard's key in the .wot dir
ascii_butugychag: at some point it will have to become vtronic
hanbot: cool, ty
mod6: hanbot: no, sorry this is confusing.
mod6: ok gl,hf :]
mircea_popescu: all you should in the .wot atm is what's in the script, ie,
mircea_popescu: # Required Public Keys:
mircea_popescu: # 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319
mircea_popescu: # 0x17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7
mircea_popescu: # 0x027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF
mircea_popescu: # 0xFC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4
mod6: these are public keys that you need in your keyring
mod6: to verify V, trinque's special patch, buildroot, and other stuff.
mircea_popescu: - # Required Public Keys:
mircea_popescu: + # You need to have these keys in your gpg keyring to vertify V, trinque's special patch, buildroot, and other stuff.
mod6: I'll change the comment, standby.
mircea_popescu: maybe actually explicit the "Some stuff"
mircea_popescu: im sorry, other stuff. and i typo'ed verify.
kakobrekla: what is the 'special patch'?
phf: mircea_popescu: anyway, i was speaking of how things are right now in v.py/v.pl. a hunk touches a file, hunks are grouped thematically (i.e. by a single unit of meaning) in a patch. a pairing of antecedent/descendent creates a graph and in combination with topo logical sort produces a press order
mircea_popescu: phf this is correct.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla iirc it was the bdb locks thing fix ?
mircea_popescu: ah nm, it was the x86 flag
phf: having multiple hunks in a patch modify several files at the same time creates a harder transition constraint then simple antecedent/descendent pairing, so i'm thinking it's probably safe to construct a graph in terms of transitions rather then purely a/d. the end result should be the same
kakobrekla: it brings me some satisfaction im not the only one confused
mircea_popescu: phf sounds right.
ascii_butugychag: phf: i ~would~ like to see a maximally-granular (split into patchons) version of mod6's flow graph
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla at some point it was discovered configure doesn't configure properly without --host=x86_64-linux given explicitly.
phf: (all this v talk past few days, i decided to sit down and grok, so Writin My Own V (tm)(c) at the moment)
mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand.
mircea_popescu: phf this is worthy goal and a pretty effectual approach even if it doesn't get used for anything post-grok
phf: indeed
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: holy shit, shitgnomes are trying to pervert even greenspun's law ?!!
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's no good because it still doesn't explain WHERE they should go. it's ambiguous between .wot and keyring\
ascii_butugychag: (grep earlier greenspun c2 link for 'refactor')
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag what are you, from a planet of shelf stable cheese, viande and laws ?
mircea_popescu: no, i read it.
ascii_butugychag: brain - melts.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, ok will fix.
mircea_popescu: gotta say, you know, "in keyring", save people a boggle.
mod6: this better?
mod6: # Required Public Keys to add to your PGP Keyring. This are used to verify V, rotor, buildroot, and trinque's patch:
mod6: damnit
mod6: # Required Public Keys to add to your PGP Keyring. These are used to verify V, rotor, buildroot, and trinque's patch:
mod6: ok :]
ascii_butugychag: http://imgur.com/rRWxCi3 << re: chalkboard thread. the one i have here.
assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG2Gbf )
mircea_popescu: you drew in those pixels by hand ?!
ascii_butugychag: censored crud
ascii_butugychag: (the thing that looks like arse cheeks was originally a dfa)
ascii_butugychag: the life of whoredom!111
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ah nm, it was the x86 flag << yeah.
mod6: hanbot: still having some probs?
mod6: if you tried to build with this script, and something went wrong, which im pretty sure that it did, you need to blow everythign away (aside from your .wot dir and your keyring of course - have back ups! /me looks at people who blew away their keys) and start over.
mod6: this thing doesn't play nice trying to run it more than one time with old artifacts laying around.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51321 @ 0.00055271 = 28.3656 BTC [+] {3}
hanbot: not really. i've been fucking around trying to get bash to save public key block to file without detritus, giving up for now and just copypasting. i'll letcha know if it goes wrong, thanks for the cleanup note.
mircea_popescu: http://funcall.blogspot.com.ar/2009/03/not-lisp-again.html << actually this is splendid, as a narrative. esp the part about derivatives.
assbot: Abstract Heresies: Not Lisp again.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG4iSn )
mod6: hanbot: alrighty, thanks. sometimes if I don't hear anything, i just assume the worst. heheh.
mod6: just want to make sure you're not stuck.
assbot: Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1PKiW2x )
pete_dushenski: mod6: i have a question about the version string patch... i seem to have applied it correctly but i'm still seeing version "50400" even when trying the '-setvernum' command so i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong. this is a new instance that's in the process of syncing, not 'tevye', which properly shows '99999'. i used the original 99997k script and applied 'version-strings' and 'hearnificarum' manually and both are now
pete_dushenski: y patches directory. should i just wait until it syncs fully and build another rotor (with line 61 updated) or is there something else i can try ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39840 @ 0.00055138 = 21.967 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: pete_dushenski: ok good q. shinohai had some issues with trying to set the value via the command line too - i haven't even tested this yet.
mod6: Now, with mine bitcoind, mine just comes up without setting any flags at all as 99999. so maybe try without any commandline flags first.
mod6: but this needs to be investigated for sure. or maybe asciilifeform has some example we can follow?
pete_dushenski: iirc shinohai was seeing 99999 and was trying to change it to 99997
pete_dushenski: whereas the stock 99997k.sh yields 50400, which is what i'm seeing.
mod6: yeah, i dont know. i'd try building with the new v99996 script, and then see what happens.
mod6: this is of value since I really haven't played with this on my own. perhaps log your results and post.
mod6: in here if nothing else.
mod6: here's that script again so you don't have to dig too far: http://dpaste.com/2VBF9V2.txt
pete_dushenski: cheers :D
mod6: yup, thanks for your patience and willingness to work on this.
pete_dushenski: my pleasure
shinohai: YEs pete_dushenski and mod6 in my tests it didnt change. Haven't tried setting or doing anything else since then, just letting the node run.
shinohai wants to compile with the new patches posted last night to ml
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388865 << My gut reaction is it is one persistent reddit user known in California Bitcoin circles so amazingly probably not
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 18:12:41; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388376 << lulz. /me wonders if this "would-be defendent" resides in tmsr~
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379781 << so 'getinfo' will always show the same regardless ?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:48:48; asciilifeform: mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! because said printf ~precedes~ the setting of the custom string. this may explain shinohai's confusion.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: aha.
pete_dushenski: shinohai: let us know how it goes
BingoBoingo: I believe reddit user's first four characters are "paul" and can't bother spelling the rest because reddit.
BingoBoingo: But there could be others
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: i was gonna point out the version string thing but you found it in the logz already.
pete_dushenski: i guess i just didn't really understand it
mod6: so if i use -setvernum=99997 it'll show up in the log but not getinfo?
ascii_butugychag: it ought to show up in getinfo
ascii_butugychag: but NOT in the log.
mod6: hmm. ok
pete_dushenski: that's odd because that's not what i'm seeing
pete_dushenski: but i don't discount that i bunged something up along the way
shinohai: I didn't get it in "getinfo" though myself. Still shows 99999
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:05:23; ben_vulpes: imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating
pete_dushenski: !up cazalla_
ascii_butugychag: shinohai: what command line params did you use ?
cazalla_: thanks pete_dushenski! came to ask you something about cars actually! are the complaints i'm reading about CVT (noisy, blow up, are shit and to be avoided) legitimate?
pete_dushenski: i'd say that, by and large, that's a fair assessment of cvt transmissions : they're complex to repair and unintuitive to drive, in my experience
cazalla_: looking at getting a toyota corolla, say 2011-2014 and most autos on the market are cvt, not 4spd auto and manuals seem few and far between :\
shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 &
pete_dushenski: cazalla_: go with 2010 ;)
cazalla_: pete_dushenski, any reason why?
pete_dushenski: just keep digging back into history until you're not swimming in shit, it's the b-a way !
pete_dushenski: no reason for 2010 in particular, just earlier than 2011. corolla didn't always have cvt, so just... dig back
cazalla_: fair call
cazalla_: so many of the cvts around down under :\
cazalla_: i find something with full service history, low km and then.. cvt :\
pete_dushenski: cazalla_: might be worth it to find an older car, higher km, just to avoid the cvt. then again, maybe you drive the cvt and don't mind it for the kind of routes you frequent, who knows
ascii_butugychag: anybody else suffer the same problem as shinohai ?
ascii_butugychag: anybody tested at all ?
pete_dushenski: ascii_butugychag: right here. same problem.
pete_dushenski: no change to version string after -setvernum command issued
cazalla_: well, the hunt continues, thanks again pete_dushenski
shinohai: I know the patch applied, because bitcoind -? shows it as an option
pete_dushenski: in other news, because dpaste mungs up files with '^M', 99996k can be found here : http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/99996K.txt
mod6: pete_dushenski: ya, as soon as we get a couple of people confirming that v99996 builds for them correctly, we'll throw it into deedbot, but thanks!
pete_dushenski: humourously, wp wouldn't allow '.sh' to be uploaded for 'sekoority raisons'
pete_dushenski: mod6: mine's churning away as we speak !
mod6: nice!
mod6: thanks for testing that out.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00055447 = 11.5884 BTC [+] {2}
hanbot: <mod6> just want to make sure you're not stuck. << looks to be puttering along nicely for me, ftr.
BingoBoingo: In sideshow news, Tommy Chong endorsed Bernie Sanders. Hilary just can't win.
pete_dushenski: in 'go' related nyooz, i spent some time talking to martin muller at the 'physics mixer' i attended last night. he's the associate research chair at the university of alberta in computing science and one of the leading researchers in monte carlo methods and the 'go' game. apparently this 'world-beating' research is happening right in my own very back yard !
ben_vulpes: nifty phf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00055805 = 7.0872 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: neato
funkenstein_: also related, turns out 樊麾 is a friend of a friend of a friend. word from that channel is there was no handicap in matches
funkenstein_: "look at the statues, entirely different people." <-- it what things look like that's important?
funkenstein_: anybody else's day ruined after watching that spineless nazi demo video?
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1233/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jul-2016/#b34
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43950 @ 0.00055884 = 24.561 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ no cuz we don't watch videos!
mircea_popescu: <phf> asciilifeform: check it http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition.png << p neat, but why is the shiva stuff connected ?
mircea_popescu: oh, he rebased it did he
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ well the question of identity and image is too complex to carry out in the margins of that example huh.
mircea_popescu: and re the games : are they published anywhere ? best way to sort this entire mess
mircea_popescu: nfi why the ORIGNAL announcement wasn't "here's the games!"
mircea_popescu: but instead had to be meta-meta bs about who did what to whom and what it supposedly means.
pete_dushenski: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.06410.pdf << 'better computer go player with neural network and long-term prediction'
pete_dushenski: mod6: 99996k built and running. back to scarfing blocks. should be synced early next week.
pete_dushenski: version string now shows '99999' too
pete_dushenski: as one would expect !
assbot: 'Spanking' over nude Snapchat photo leads to assault conviction for parents - British Columbia - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1RRCjXw )
deedbot-: [Qntra] Article On Swedish Murder Censored In Sweden - http://qntra.net/2016/01/article-on-swedish-murder-censored-in-sweden/
pete_dushenski: summary : parents hit daughter with skipping rope and plastic hockey sticks, WHICH LEFT MARKS OMG, because fillie was caught sexting and chose this punishment over being grounded. parents were then not only charged but CONVICTED of assault by provincial court.
pete_dushenski: not like this retardation is sustainable, so enjoy prosecuting jaywalking and other trivial non-crimes, canada, enjoy it while you still have oil and trees and fish as slaves to make 'everyone' worthy of due process.
diametric: pete_dushenski: the article i read didn't say marks, but specifically lacerations.
pete_dushenski: "It came to the attention of police when the daughter showed bruises on her buttocks to two of her girlfriends, who in turn reported what they had seen to the school principal." <<
diametric: deep bruising and lacerations, as in they were beating her severely enough to cause bleeding.
punkman: "To suggest that responding to such acts by a teenaged daughter (14 going on 15 years), by spanking her with an object, would be educative or corrective, is simply not believable or acceptable by any measure of current social consensus." << indeed, gotta encourage the nudes :P
diametric: not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.
pete_dushenski: punkman: i wanted to cry for the world i'm bringing my children into when i read 'current social consensus'. then i remembered that you have to get caught first !
pete_dushenski: and if you're caught, that you can't afford the best lawyers !
pete_dushenski: and that if that's still not good enough, that you wouldn't burn the court house to the ground and piss on the ashes !
punkman: pete_dushenski: might be cheaper to just move
pete_dushenski: if i got up and moved everytime idiots were idiots, i'd live on the moon already.
mircea_popescu: mod6 your latest pressing away on a new system. will announce it and add to trb fleet once done.
mircea_popescu: heh just as i said that...
mircea_popescu: You must install 'bc' on your build machine
mircea_popescu: make: *** [core-dependencies] Error 1
punkman: wha's bc?
mircea_popescu: apparently a calculator thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00056036 = 23.0028 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: what's the cannonical makeclean, rm -rf * in /rotor ?
punkman: https://micropurchase.18f.gov/ lol at the top two issues
assbot: Micro-purchase ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLgdyl )
TomServo: It appears I'm somehow wedged at 252450 again. :( Just completed my first restart, so we'll see.
punkman: (not about buying 18yo females, no)
punkman: TomServo: did you adjust db locks?
TomServo: punkman: No, is that required if using the wiki build script?
mircea_popescu: Saving to: “/home/bitcoin/rotor/buildroot-2015.05/output/build/.gcc-4.9.2.tar.bz2.GCAtsD/output”
mircea_popescu: motherfucker is buildroot huge.
mircea_popescu: TomServo yeah it's required if you want to sync, bdb as shipped with original btc croaks on larger blocks
mircea_popescu: (this is totally an isolated case and "scaling" bitcoin is totally safe guise, nevermind that nobody seriously tested this)
punkman: TomServo: depends when you built it
danielpbarron: diametric, so what if lacerations? have you seen some of the bdsm pics linked in here?
TomServo: punkman: I used build-bitcoind-99997K.sh, OS install and bitcoind build were on the 27th.
mircea_popescu: <punkman> "To suggest that responding to such acts by a teenaged daughter (14 going on 15 years), by spanking her with an object, would be educative or corrective, is simply not believable or acceptable by any measure of current social consensus." << indeed, gotta encourage the nudes :P << rank nonsense. beatings are quite educative, in practice.
mircea_popescu: what "consensus" ? is this a consensus of the derps that never beat anyone nor have ever educated anyone ?
mircea_popescu: why not ask the fucking field mice then./
hanbot: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389355 << if this isn't already a standard example, anyone feel like talking me through this option jungle? (starting v99996 for the first time)
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 21:39:38; shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 &
hanbot: i mean is most of that for troubleshooting or is that what it takes each time?
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> punkman: i wanted to cry for the world i'm bringing my children into when i read 'current social consensus'. then i remembered that you have to get caught first ! << this is also rank nonsense , of the http://trilema.com/2014/the-idea-that-bitcoin-is-a-sovereign/#comment-116288 ilk
assbot: The idea that Bitcoin is a sovereign... on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLgO31 )
mircea_popescu: ie, infantile delusions of sovereignity through "privacy". this doesn't work. sovereignity behaves publicly and with impunity. that is the fucking point.
punkman: hanbot, I think you don't need -conf if you have -datadir
shinohai: At minimum hanbot you need the -myip -conf and -datadir flags
shinohai: I may be wrong but it works for me
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype - http://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#b11
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.10000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin block reward halving on or before 20 July 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1182/bitcoin-block-reward-halving-on-or-before-20/#b15
punkman: what's LC_ALL=C do for bitcoind?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: no debate. but if i'm sovereign, how can the polizei charge me ? what's next, arresting bahamas for health care insurance fraud ?
mircea_popescu: same way they can charge anyone.
mircea_popescu: suppose someone comes in here with proof you stole their shit.
mircea_popescu: you're charged alright.
hanbot: punkman i gather some local issue arises otherwise eg http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-12-2015#1349988
assbot: Logged on 22-12-2015 01:17:06; asciilifeform: LC_ALL="C"
hanbot: ty, same shinohai
punkman: shinohai: any reason you went with nohup instead of -daemon?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: canuck polizei might charge rando 'religious couple' because xtians are bad mkay, but foreign ambassadors ?
pete_dushenski: not without a lot of political will
punkman: pete_dushenski: did you start the canadian b-a embassy yet?
pete_dushenski: i'm just finalising the toilet design ;)
shinohai: Always have used it punkman no particular reason I guess :/
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski didn't they kidnap the sitting fmi head over "charged" based on the testimony of a streetwalker that the us district attorney had paid to lie ?
mircea_popescu: and... well... nothing happened ?
punkman: hanbot, so if you don't use nohup, you can also get rid of the redirection at the end "2>&1 &"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: sounds identical to the strauss-kahn set-up
mircea_popescu: that's because it is identical.
danielpbarron: my node (the one i started at the same time as Mircea) is still chugging along happily; now at height=367932
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron just looked, mine was 368k or so
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: aha.
danielpbarron: neck and neck!
danielpbarron: and it's been going uninterrupted since more-or-less the beginning (i stopped and started it after the first few k blocks for some reason)
shinohai: Only time I have stopped mine is for upgrades. Otherwise it runs merrily along all day.
mircea_popescu: ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2
mircea_popescu: 1st one dies confusingly.
mircea_popescu: 2nd one seems to run ok
phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk
phf: and the one ascii requested, transition graph for when there's only one hunk per patch file http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks-asplode.png (i filtered out all the genesis files that don't have further transitions)
phf: actually that one seems to be buggy? there isn't any branching, they all are linear. hmm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @ 0.0005576 = 20.91 BTC [-] {6}
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency FIRST!!!
gribble: Error: 'FIRST!!!' is not a valid currency code.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 378.27, vol: 13543.66759622 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.724, vol: 8758.31056 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 377.49, vol: 62224.11038134 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 382.99, vol: 6.2435984 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.88072, vol: 79125.12340000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.91559, vol: 613.79457287 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 385.572769, vol: 50.78882564 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 381.403841153
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --currency jpy
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy
gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 45800.3168, vol: 13547.40184749 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 46355.40976, vol: 8757.95763 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 46387.7488, vol: 6.2435984 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 46630.877384, vol: 79126.78360000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 45500.0, vol: 46.76868694 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46698.41221, vol: 50.78882564 | Volume-weighted last average: 46495.7976395
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb
gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2534.1, vol: 79113.51580000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2534.1
shinohai: ;;ticker --market all --currency sweet young virgins
gribble: Error: 'sweet' is not a valid currency code.
punkman: ;;diff
gribble: 1.2003334065123697E11
punkman: ;;diffchange
gribble: Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | None % based on data since last change | 11.54629 % based on data for last three days
punkman: bitfury's 40MW datacenter could do 600petahash with their 16nm chips
BingoBoingo: shinohai: It takes currency codes only so instead of "sweet young virgins" you gotta enter "cntvs" for "cunt, virgin sweet"
funkenstein_: eh let captain kirk go where no man has gone before
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/l2oplLE.png?1 << No matter how much you try to appease hamplanets there's always that that's too fat.
punkman: ;;genrate [calc 12 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000]
gribble: The expected generation output, at 12000000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 1.20033340651e+11, is 50.2766828319 BTC per day and 2.09486178466 BTC per hour.
punkman: ;;calc 50.27 * [avgprc USD 30d]
gribble: 20521.2194
punkman: (12 petahash, aka one bitfury container thingie)
punkman: "16nm chips for total hashpower of 12PH/s, 1.5MW (rev1) or 16PH/s, 2MW (rev2)"
punkman: guess that 40MW-600phash calculation I saw in some comments somewhere might be off a bit
punkman: 2mw per day at $0.15kwh ,,calc 48000 * 0.15
punkman: ;;calc 48000 * 0.15
gribble: 7200
danielpbarron: heh the boy is touching himself
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389517 <<< Sadly it seems everyone in America feels entitled to make manufacturers do as they wish.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 00:23:19; BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/l2oplLE.png?1 << No matter how much you try to appease hamplanets there's always that that's too fat.
assbot: سيارة Elibreia القطرية تجذب جميع الأنظار نحوها | ArabGT ... ( http://bit.ly/23z6Ltt )
mod6: ok lemme try to answer some questions here...
mod6: <+pete_dushenski> mod6: 99996k built and running. back to scarfing blocks. should be synced early next week. << ok awesome, glad you got it working
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> You must install 'bc' on your build machine << ah, ok.
BingoBoingo: Looks like fiat intends to declare war on Aedes aegypti and Aedes albopictus
mod6: what's the cannonical makeclean, rm -rf * in /rotor ? << yeah, i would just blowaway the entire 'rotor' directory along with all the V stuff. the stuff that I would save is just the .wot dir, the keys contained therein, and of course, your ~/.gnupg stuff (ofc. have backups etc (this is for everyone who blew their keys away once)) : then totally restart the entire script.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 << yeah, if all goes well, you should ~only~ need to just execute the build script -- if you have to execute either of the rotor.sh scripts, then something went wrong.
shinohai: I just nuked my entire rotor directory on build machine every time I am doing an update
mod6: obviously this is not how we want things to be -- will be the main focus to be to get rid of the build script we're using today and move to a version of trinque's makefiles.
mod6: it doesn't scale obviously for everyone to have these issues. for my own sanity, we need to make it so that a guy just basically does one thing and then it builds.
mod6: no exceptions to this.
mod6: so yeah, after the first, will be a main focus there -- all are encouraged to help me get to this goal.
shinohai: you have my support for as many hours of testing and reporting as needed. o7
mod6: <+hanbot> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389355 << if this isn't already a standard example, anyone feel like talking me through this option jungle? (starting v99996 for the first time) << so i think all that is really required here is `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=A.B.C.D -addnode=W.X.Y.Z &`
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 21:39:38; shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 &
mod6: But it totally depends. It depends on if you have ~/.bitcoin available for your blockchain repo, or if its in a different place.
mod6: if so you need to use -datadir=
mod6: if you want to verify all signatures in a block; use -verifyall
mod6: if you want to send btc and not get malleated, you may use: -lows
mod6: if you want to connect to just a single node instead of many, use: -connect (instead of -addnode)
mod6: if you have .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -- then you shouldn't need to use the flag: -conf
mod6: for sure let me know if there are other ones that you wanna know about :]
mod6: TomServo: ok, something very bad (tm) is happening on your end.
mod6: Please, let's work together to discover what that might be. I'm worried that either V is failing on your side for some reason (it seems to not be pressing out the tree correctly) -- maybe you tried to build over an old build space, or who knows.
mod6: But we should attempt to get to the bottom of this as soon as possible.
mod6: There are steps that I can let you know about to walk you through setting this up and logging your every move so we can all discover what it is that isn't working on your end. Because I'd bet dollars to donuts that for somereason you are ending up with a super downlevel version of db.cpp -- which is why you're getting stuck on 252`450
mod6: thanks shinohai
shinohai: Ok my old Ubuntu server and the other Deb machine both built with the script pete_dushenski posted earlier
mod6: ok sweet. that's a good thing.
shinohai: The Ubuntu server is remote - lost connection and had to reconnect
mod6: if hanbot and Mr. P. can get through it ok, then we'll deedbot it -- not that I feel good about it - I don't. The thing isn't what we really want... it's just what we have, for now. :/
mod6: the entire build process is incredibly complex and we need to desperately reduce that compelxity as much as we can.
shinohai: I can work with it because I've used variation of it for so many builds. But I understand the issues at hand.
mod6: exactly.
shinohai: I won't lie those, there are times I cry " mod6 HALP!!!!"
mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much -- but at least enough to install Linux can build this with a "single button push"
shinohai: *though
mod6: Yeah, the good news is: We have a statically linked bitcoind that has come quite a long way from where we started. Infact, the original version flat out will not work any longer -- ala TomServo's issue.
mod6: However, the process to build said binary is quite arduous and we need to perfect that part.
mod6: Then we'll be ready to take on the more challenging parts this year -- i.e. the mempool etc.
mod6: But we can't work on that, until we have something that people can use today.
mod6: what good is fixing the mempool or other things if they can't build it and use it today?
mod6: if someone says "hey fuck these ``Classic and XT clowns, I want REAL BITCOIN'', then we need to ensure that they can build that.
mod6: that's our charge.
shinohai: It goes with the territory though. So many moving parts and this is relatively young in it's existence
mod6: Yup. It's complex. We've come a long way.
mod6: trinque did us all a huge favor, but we need to perfect the thing and make it a "no brainer"
mod6: that will be my main goal as soon as the SoBA for january is complete.
mod6: which, I aim to work on tonight :]
mod6: As soon as we have our new build process in place, and it's sane, and "Works" and "fits in head" and all that, then we'll release.
mod6: And hopefully, this will end some of our tooling issues for a while, and we can focus on the large engineering issues at hand.
mod6: *larger
punkman: mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much << wouldn't this guy be better off downloading a signed binary?
mod6: this to me always seems like a shaky idea -- ONLY even a possibility if we get all the compiler garbage fixed so that it produces (bitwise) the ~exact~ same binary every single time.
mod6: i do think, as a republic, we're laying the groundwork for that at some point to be a possibility.
mod6: so stragicially, we're moving in the correct direction there.
shinohai would contribute a .deb package with same result
mod6: Look at how much stuff we accomplished in January!
mod6: I feel good about the work that you all put in this month. Thanks to everyone who helped the republic be successful this month.
shinohai drinks to tmsr~ [~]D
mod6: Salud!
punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:10:39; mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever?
trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389272 << there's some tweaking I'd like to do, would be happy to have your thoughts on the thing when you're able if you see other improvements
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:34:34; mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand.
trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384068 << I designed the makefiles to take a BUILDER variable, of which there is currently only rotor. perhaps this is the place to add an openbsd builder, which could apply unofficial patches as they are necessary after V press
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 08:18:57; phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly
mod6: <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389199 << certainly, I'd be happy to host it << outstanding, thanks!
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:10:39; mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever?
mod6: <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389272 << there's some tweaking I'd like to do, would be happy to have your thoughts on the thing when you're able if you see other improvements << yeah, please, if you have the time, i'd really like to work with you to help us not only get the makefiles updated with the latest V and other things, but to also figure out all of this stuff.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:34:34; mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand.
trinque: I will probably be out all day tomorrow, but the next day or sometime next week will work for me.
mod6: <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384068 << I designed the makefiles to take a BUILDER variable, of which there is currently only rotor. ... << for now, as far as I'm concerned, this is totally ok. we'll have to worry about other *nix's after we perfect getting linux x86-64 done with a CD to boot also.
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 08:18:57; phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly
mod6: <+trinque> I will probably be out all day tomorrow, but the next day or sometime next week will work for me. << no rush here. i'd like to dig into this sometime next week.
trinque: cool.
mod6: I feel like, if you and I put some serious effort with help from #b-a, for like 2 weeks, we'd really be somewhere by the end of february.
mod6: which would allow us some full testing time - at the end of which, we sign patches and call it a release.
mod6: two weeks kinda sounds like it might be a lot, but you know how this stuff goes ;)
trinque: that sounds good to me.
mircea_popescu: mod6 and in the same vein as prev comment : why does bitcoind end up in /bitcoin/src ?
mod6: mircea_popescu: no specific reason, we just leave it in place after compilation. moving to trinque's setup resolves this.
mod6: you think i should copy it somewhere in the v99996 build script before i jump onto other things? i'd rather just let sleeping dogs lie there, just because very soon we're gonna ditch it anyway.
mod6: oh hey
mod6: btw, did it ever build ok for you after the 'bc' issue?
mod6: hanbot: did you get it to work too?
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389165 << the MSU Chemistry department is decidedly standardized on chalk. We had these nice 1" thick chalk, was great for drawing molecules you could read from the back of the lecture hall
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:57:06; mircea_popescu: hey, best part of physics lab was the blackboard imo
PeterL: I always hated when we had to use a room in the physics department, they used whiteboards
mircea_popescu: mod6 : latest trb v99996 on 91.218.246.31 says "blocks" : 4500, "connections" : 13,
mod6: ah ok!!
shinohai: btw mod6 I still have to add the export PERL_MM_OPT= to mine to get it to run, dunno what weird issue I have that causes it.
mircea_popescu: minor snags as detailed in logs. but nothing really worth the mention
mod6: ok gotcha
mod6: shinohai: that *is* weird.
mod6: mircea_popescu: hey, just because im curious -- let me know if you get past 252`450 -- or if you'd rather, check and see if you have the most recent db.cpp
mod6: TomServo's issues have me a bit curious there.
mircea_popescu: mod6 ima look one sec
mod6: Thanks Sir. Much appreciated.
mircea_popescu: mod6 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e db.cpp that help ?
mircea_popescu: dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(2737000);
mircea_popescu: yeah seems right.
mod6: Thanks Sir. Much appreciated.# sha512sum db.cpp
mod6: 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e db.cpp
mod6: oops, copied too much there.
mod6: yah, looks good to me. very good.
mod6: hmm. perhaps he has something environmental going on. be interesting to get to the bottom of that mystery.
mircea_popescu: TomServo how much ram does the system actulaly have ?
mod6: just dial: 1888-MOD-6HLP
mod6: :D
mircea_popescu: better than 0-800-NO-HODL
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: o look at that, blockchain 10% done!
mod6: running -verifyall ?
mod6: werd
mircea_popescu: also running -connect
mircea_popescu: because why would i take stuff from the webs.
mod6: ya, i agree with that when sync'ing up. get a verified chain from a trusted node.
mod6: then make a backup (for those who haven't)
trinque: shinohai: I'd type env in a terminal of yours, see what your system is setting
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk
trinque: also, deedbox will be down shortly for SSD installation, whenever the DC pulls it
mircea_popescu: phf what do you use to graph ?
hanbot: mod6 v99996 up and running here, couldn't've asked for something smoother.
mod6: wow, hanbot. congrats!
mod6: Thanks for the feedback. :]
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:10:38; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 << yeah, if all goes well, you should ~only~ need to just execute the build script -- if you have to execute either of the rotor.sh scripts, then something went wrong.
mircea_popescu: anyway mod6 this is a milestone for teh foundation, got three instances spun up on the same fucking day of the release.
mircea_popescu: within hours really
mod6: ok, on that note then; we've got myself, shinohai, bitcoin_pete, hanbot, Mr. P. and who am i forgetting that have built v99996 build script -- i'd say let's put it in deed bot and update the wiki.
mod6: mircea_popescu: that's great! very nice progress indeed.
mircea_popescu: o right, more like 5 huh
mod6: Couldn't have been possible without all of you.
mircea_popescu: anyway, im only going to announce the new nodes once they're synced and i open them to public i figure.
mod6: Thanks for doing so! That's awesome.
mircea_popescu: currently kinda useless to advertise nodes that run in -connect
shinohai: I'll open mine to public when I finish my battle with Comcast.
mod6: give 'em hell, shinohai
PeterL: does it sync faster in -connect rather than -addnode?
mircea_popescu: lol no gaming on comcast cable ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL probably. moreover, it allows the trb network to be built in depth. what the fuck do we even have the fronteer nodes for if not to protect us
mircea_popescu: i haven't the slightest curiosity to find what rando i couldn't tell from adam thinks the blocks look like.
shinohai: mod6 Atlanta is one of the cities they decide to start enforcing data caps on. :/
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << ok that's great. << this ~is~ a nice looking graph
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk
mod6: shinohai: wow. perhaps, it's not a horrible idea to look at a hosted solution instead of saturating your home conn.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389555 << incidentally, could all the flags be covered in .conf ?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:15:55; mod6: if you have .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -- then you shouldn't need to use the flag: -conf
mod6: mircea_popescu: I believe they should.
mod6: shinohai: you use the conf file quite a bit right? does it seem to work "as expected" ?
mircea_popescu: and also, could we bundle a pre-created .conf file with the release ? something to include say all the public trb nodes as -connects and stuff, with a comment to explain to people how to turn it into a public node ?
mircea_popescu: something like
mircea_popescu: connect = X Y Z
mircea_popescu: # to make this node public, make sure port 8333 is open, comment out the line above and uncomment the line below
mircea_popescu: # somesetting
mod6: hmm. i'd feel like that maybe that's a bit sticky incase IPs change or what not -- maybe an addition to the wiki would be a better place to start there?
mircea_popescu: you just update it with every release.
mircea_popescu: defaults are defaults, people are free to change them. but it's nice to have when out of the box like this
mod6: sure. that makes some sense. if it reduces confusion, i think its positive.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, just throwing it out there, for ppl to weigh in
shinohai: mod6: it works as expected for me, maybe I'll draft one up in next couple of days
mod6: hey hey, there you go bud.
mircea_popescu: certainly gets it one step further to the "one command and it runs" ideal
mod6: yah, shinohai that's be super helpful.
mod6: *that'd
mod6: you know something that is a lot different participating in TMSR as opposed to any other place i've worked at?
mod6: people in here ~care~ about problems. they wanna pitch in and help and make things better.
mircea_popescu: that's the idea
mod6: in typical US work environment, its mainly a lot of "oh, that's not my problem... talk to so and so..."
shinohai: If you don't care about Bitcoin, you shouldn't be here.
mod6: seeing us pull together and get problems solved, warms my heart.
PeterL: maybe you just need to find better workplaces?
shinohai: What good is being part of a Republic, if you do not contribute for the good of said Republic?
mod6: lol, ive actually worked at a lot of places. it's totally different. people go there to get paid so they can continue buying shit they don't need and eating food that isn't food.
mod6: this, like shinohai said, is different because people want it.
mod6: "sound money is better than anything you've got"
shinohai would not have nice new lappy without sound money!
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:20:35; mod6: the entire build process is incredibly complex and we need to desperately reduce that compelxity as much as we can.
mircea_popescu: and i'm one easily irritated.
shinohai: Chillax and smoke more weed mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: "blocks" : 88213, man that first coupla years go fast...
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:34:33; punkman: mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much << wouldn't this guy be better off downloading a signed binary?
mircea_popescu: for one thing, the VERY CONCEPT of signed binary no longer exists.
mircea_popescu: we have a complex trees of signatures etc.
mircea_popescu: for the other thing, no. it promotes this anti-computing, anti-intellectual, outright evil view of software being something that is given the user, like an item, rather than the correct view of software being a command given to the computer.
mircea_popescu: and in general. fuck that shit.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?
shinohai: But it's what the user expects!
punkman: I don't think "guy that doesn't know much" doing "curl deedbot.com/build.sh | sh" is great either
phf: i'm using graphviz, v.lisp produces a file of 'digraph G {"bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32" -> "asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation"; ...' format, everything else handled by graphviz
phf:
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: phf your v.lisp seems pretty advanced then :)
phf: it gets the job done :]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00056225 = 18.8635 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << so like a rotor reimplementation ? << more like some rotor automation to try various builds and lets you know what compiles or not
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?
TomServo: mod6: Please assume I've mucked something up before all else. Let me know what I can provide that can be of help.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: System has 2048 MB of RAM.
TomServo: doh dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(10000); :(
punkman: "If you've never peddled the flesh of subhuman garbage creatures to human garbage, you've never lived, and living is a nightmare. Eat arbys"
mod6: oh hai TomServo
mod6: Well, you may have not have `mucked' anything up. Perhaps we can walk through this a bit.
mod6: if you're around tonight, i'd like to walk through some steps.
mod6: If not, tomorrow is fine too. Just want to ensure that we take a look at what might be going on there.
mod6: BingoBoingo: haha.
BingoBoingo: rotational problem for sure
mod6: mmmhmm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00056029 = 19.8903 BTC [-]
mod6: ok, let's pick it back up in the morning. night!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00056081 = 21.7314 BTC [+] {2}
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