Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-02-14 | 2015-02-16 →
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: CXXFLAGS=-O2 -std=c++03 -> CXXFLAGS=-O2 -O3 << is this braindamage of my own design?
asciilifeform: i think i actually put in the std=
asciilifeform: and said why (see log) but have since forgotten.
decimation: doesn't -O3 imply -O2?
asciilifeform: where'd ya get the O2 O3 combo
asciilifeform: and yes, decimation has it.
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2015 05:48:59; asciilifeform: 2) added c++03 flag, my crosscompiler spewed chunder without it
asciilifeform: not entirely related,
assbot: A simple way to "get more people to code" ... ( )
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> where'd ya get the O2 O3 combo << shlomiel moment
asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l
asciilifeform: 'If there's a shortage of programmers, we could pay programmers more money.'
asciilifeform: ^ 'does not know how world works.' everybody knows that 'shortage' in usg parlance means 'not readily available at the centrally planned price'
decimation: lol asciilifeform >"If this strikes you as absurd, does it strike you as even more absurd that people claim something to be a problem when its "solution" is as obvious as it is ridiculous? (Or is it really that ridiculous? Farm subsidies exist. Why not FarmVille subsidies?)"
decimation: where's my farmville subsidies? has congress passed the farmville bill yet?
decimation: lol "An owner of a 3D printer recently told me that "having one really exposes the impotence of… not having one. For instance, I needed this little thingie to hold a shelf. Took 30 minutes to design and print. And where would I get it otherwise?!" The answer, of course, is "at a nearby store" where they have a box full of these thingies at about 20 cents apiece. Of course, in a couple thousand years, his investment in the 3D printer
decimation: will repay itself though the continuous printing of thingies."
decimation: of course, printing something structurally critical like a bracket holding weight is a great application for weakass-plastic 3d printing
ben_vulpes: oh just beef it up some
ben_vulpes: it ain't under vibratory load or anything
decimation: so you gotta wonder how long it took the guy to dick around with his winblows cad software to create a bracket
ben_vulpes: although the notion that you can design any 3d part of any utility without inventor or solidworks is pretty lulzy
ben_vulpes: it has been a few years since i looked at the "open" cadcam "solutions".
ben_vulpes: last time i checked the answer to "assemblies?" was "lolwut" and i stopped paying attention.
decimation: yeah my understanding is that solidworks is kind of the 3d hill and autocad is king of the 2d hill
decimation: s/kind/king/
ben_vulpes: inventor fusion's pretty sweet.
ben_vulpes: full multiphysics sims
decimation: interesting
ben_vulpes: that you gotta check against single dimension approximations to make sure it's not haring off into impossiblespace
decimation: ben_vulpes: do either of those systems accept 'scripting' inputs, such that you could describe the parts with a textual interface?
ben_vulpes: decimation: they both support defining parts parametrically.
ben_vulpes: and in fact that is how good part design should be done.
decimation: I should think so
ben_vulpes: mm but pure text part description?
ben_vulpes: well, i don't know.
ben_vulpes: i wasn't programming when i was a hot modeler.
ben_vulpes: it's one of those few interfacing problems that i don't really think is suited to a textual abstraction.
decimation: I mean that the brain's language 'co-processor' (as ascii desribed it) can be used
ben_vulpes: !s co-processor from:asciilifeform
assbot: 0 results for 'co-processor from:asciilifeform' :
decimation: well, there's certainly a 'does it fit' aspect that is visual
ben_vulpes: decimation: it's actually very fast and intuitive once you've learned the interfaces.
ben_vulpes: 6-axis doolie to move the object around in space; select faces and planes on which to draw shapes and sweep/extrude them through space.
ben_vulpes: "does it fit" << doubly so in the context of assemblies.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the notion that you can design any 3d part of any utility without inventor or solidworks is pretty lulzy << trololol
decimation: << "I can’t speak for everyone, but when I program, I like to be able to make use of the rather-hefty chunk of my brain that evolved as a language co-processor. Language provides compact abstractions in a way that is difficult to beat using graphics except for inherently-visual tasks (the motion of mechanical parts, etc.)"
assbot: Not all programmers are alike: a language rant | Locklin on science ... ( )
decimation: asciilifeform: made a comment on that post
BingoBoingo: !up PinkPixel^
asciilifeform: it's one of those few interfacing problems that i don't really think is suited to a textual abstraction << depends on what is being drawn. see 'openscad' etc.
asciilifeform: (or, earlier, 'povray')
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79200 @ 0.00038439 = 30.4437 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but yes, if physics sims, output to heavy industry spec, etc. is your thing - winblows.
decimation: I certainly can describe a bolt as 'Hex bolts, Stainless steel 18-8, 1/4"-20'' and have a pretty good idea of what I mean
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: on the other hand if all you want to do is to define some geometry and run a lathe, there are tolerably sane proggys around
decimation: asciilifeform: what software would you recommend to create an easily purchased bracket from inappropriate materials?
asciilifeform: 'openscad' if mathematically-inclined, 'freecad' if used to traditional gui
asciilifeform: or wake up diametric, ask him what he uses now
asciilifeform: ^ fella owns a princely collection of cnc equipment
decimation: yeah he does as I recall
decimation: asciilifeform: actually in that scott locklin comment thread he brings up labview, which I'm sure you are familiar with
decimation: I find his idea that someone actually uses labview for something other than to waste the taxpayers' time & money amusing
asciilifeform: decimation: used, believe or not, in industry (as in, actual plant control)
decimation: really? why bother with the layers of turdware?
asciilifeform: sorta occupies that niche of 'i need to automate a process but i refuse to learn to program'
asciilifeform: why bother with the layers << anything to 'avoid programming'
decimation: Because there's very little I can imagine labview can do that couldn't be replaced with a few hundred lines of "c" and the labview driver library
asciilifeform: in an earlier age, 'hypercard' ( << my article on the subject) filled a similar niche
asciilifeform: ^ was ludicrously popular on account of intelligent folks who were 'afraid of programming' and agreed to try it out because it didn't pattern-match their phobia
asciilifeform: rather than because of any one of the other characteristics
decimation: yeah that makes sense. as I recall as a youth in school, it was used as kind of a proto-powerpoint
asciilifeform: microscope-hammer.
decimation: actually even the html/css shitstack has grown its own quasi hypercard
assbot: Put the internet to work for you. - IFTTT ... ( )
decimation: and a variety of similar 'startups'
decimation: except they cost $, are not reliable, and are less useful than hypercard was
asciilifeform: decimation: if you'd like a canonical list of those turds, of several years' vintage, read the comments to 568.
decimation: lolz I didn't look at the comments
decimation: including one 'have you tried labview' lol
ben_vulpes: oh jesus labview
ben_vulpes: the best part about labview is how once a person builds a reasonably complex thing in it they and only they can really understand where all the pipes go and where all the data is and how control moves around
ben_vulpes: one of the things that gently nudged me into my current slavery
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'trololol' < i suppose that part sheets, dimensional tolerancing and what have you are part of my base assumptions for part fab.
decimation: asciilifeform: actually I think the best explanation for 'why hypercard had to die' is that apple discovered that you could sell software to chumps at huge profit, whereas actually competing on hardware is a low-margin miserable business
ben_vulpes: i can't recall if i ever bumped into freecad.
ben_vulpes: ah hey freecad looks okay
decimation: I think I used it a little while, it mostly works
ben_vulpes: oh jesus this is going to be like gimp isn't it
ben_vulpes: every little feature squireled away a million menus down
decimation: yeah that's exactly what I thought when I opened it
assbot: FreeCAD: An Open Source parametric 3D CAD modeler ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: like gimp ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: have you ever worked with photoshop, illustrator et al?
ben_vulpes: and i mean for hours, weeks at a stretch?
decimation: there's another angle to the 'open source cad' thing: autocad refuses to release the spec for their full-feature 'save' files
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: actually yes.
ben_vulpes: my mind is blown.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as you can probably guess, 'not from a good life'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and did you spend a similar amount of time attempting to 'work' the same way in 'the gimp'?
ben_vulpes: (subject of the portatron: "g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus) ")
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i think i see what you were thinking.
asciilifeform: internal error: killed << wai way
asciilifeform: post output ?
asciilifeform: or was that it
ben_vulpes: ram, likely.
ben_vulpes: no, 'twas all.
asciilifeform: what were you building on?
ben_vulpes: obj, obj, obj...Killed.
asciilifeform: dead goat ?
ben_vulpes: pauper's vps.
asciilifeform: why -build- on a vps ?
asciilifeform perplexed
ben_vulpes: again, shlomiel.
ben_vulpes: i'd no idea that compiling a static bitcoind would take quite so much memory. then again, it's loading all of boost and dbb and openssl - does all of the above need to reside in memory at the same time?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: same time << as obj, yes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how else.
decimation: it could swap on a hard drive at extreme performance penalty
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: on the subject of 'gimp'-like proggys with terrifyingly layered menus - this is a well-known plague and there is no, afaik, ready pill for it.
asciilifeform: someone might say 'key mappings' but this neglects the explorability aspect
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the only pills i'm aware of are pouring capital into refining the interface and training the intended customers.
asciilifeform: (the reason why it is possible to learn photoshit without reading docs is that the controls are there on the table, so to speak)
ben_vulpes: aside from having the thing actually be programmable, but that's apparently a nonstarter in our world.
ben_vulpes recompiles on local vm with actual beef to it.
mircea_popescu: aww scoopbot ded ?
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl scoopbot x.x
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Bjarne Stroustrup: "I Did It For You All..." ... ( )
ben_vulpes: time ./
ben_vulpes: real20m17.054s
mircea_popescu: lol @fake interview
ben_vulpes: p funny
assbot: Richard Feynman and The Connection Machine - The Long Now ... ( )
ben_vulpes: wolfram worked with feynman at Thinking Machines?!
ben_vulpes: Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of this if it bothered her. "Yes, it really annoys me," she said. "On the other hand, he is the only one who ever explained quantum mechanics to me as if I could
ben_vulpes: understand it."
mircea_popescu: so in the end... she enjoyed it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38400 @ 0.00040115 = 15.4042 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: decimation: of course, printing something structurally critical like a bracket holding weight is a great application for weakass-plastic 3d printing << yes, because hopefully it falls on his head.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
BingoBoingo: !up hegemoOn
Vexual: Reminds me of some aussie cops spending 10k on a printer and 9bux on a roll pf cornstarch to show how a liberator will take your fingers orf
hegemoOn: thank you BingoBoingo
Vexual: Theyre busy investigating all the unwarranted bugging by the internal affairs of the next commissioner now. Printers prolly gone
hegemoOn: good morning gentlemen
Vexual: Hello hegemoon
BingoBoingo: Vexual: The Buggering bu Internal Affairs you say?
Vexual: Dunno. Makes me think that things McAfee says aren't nessisarily because of bath salts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5589 @ 0.00073773 = 4.1232 BTC [-] {20}
Vexual: Perhaps politics amd sculldugerous corruption are inseprable
Vexual: More likely noone actually knows whats happening
BingoBoingo: Well, the person getting buggered probably has an idea
Vexual: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 267.08, Best ask: 267.78, Bid-ask spread: 0.70000, Last trade: 267.79, 24 hour volume: 20489.98533335, 24 hour low: 242.46, 24 hour high: 267.79, 24 hour vwap: 253.324401193
punkman: "An owner of a 3D printer recently told me that "having one really exposes the impotence of… not having one." << it's a great timesink, especially if you enjoy flapping your hands wondering why the fuck it's not printing or why it's on fire again
Vexual: Lol
Vexual: Sounds a lot like the police commissioners job
punkman: also, not only do you have to learn to CAD, but most CADs just don't work for things you want to 3D print
punkman: and then there's the G-code slicer
punkman: oh what a wonderful world that is
Vexual: Poor lady had so many more police holes than baddie holes in hostages in the recent terry wrist thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42800 @ 0.00038309 = 16.3963 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: So does a 3d printer make you get better at cad?
punkman: maybe, if you aren't spending all your time trying to keep printer level
Vexual: Like the builder who presents a nice archicad flythru then blames the concreter for everything that follows
punkman: !up Vexual
punkman: "Insufficient rights, punkman, !up yourself on PM first." but why
punkman: !up Vexual
Vexual: Shes fun
Vexual: I've always wanted a makerbot
punkman: makerbot is an inch closer to "just works"
Vexual: They look like they're getting crapper for ease of use
Vexual: I just wanna run any material and stuff is adjustable
Vexual: I mean easier to use at the expense of actually working well
punkman: I'm gonna try again in 2016
Vexual: Hopefully ba has a thingiverse better by then
BingoBoingo: What does a 3D printer actually fix that a roll of Duct tape doesn't fix faster and better?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122300 @ 0.00038384 = 46.9436 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: Its about arranging things correctly
assbot: XRobots - Lulzbot TAZ4 3D Printer Unboxing, Setup & First Prints - YouTube ... ( )
Vexual: A well designed shelf bracket will be better and stronger than the hardware shop equivalent
Vexual: You can have holes that fit the screws you own
Vexual: Or sign to say you have a copy of some turgid dick in abs
BingoBoingo: I thought the hole was supposed to adapt to the screw
Vexual: yeah you print the hole to suit
punkman: I don't want it to fix things, that's nonsense
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: Yah can duct tape anything its true. But it's nice when shit works properly
Vexual: Remember when fluffypony made mining rig racks from aluminum section?
fluffypony: still do
BingoBoingo: 211165 and still going on latest sync test. Will try to ride this one to the present
BingoBoingo: At least fluffypony learned his lesson about shipping stuff via boat
fluffypony: lol yeah
BingoBoingo: And about opening sales to the lowest common denominator
Vexual: Did a shark eat it?
BingoBoingo: Only the left one
Vexual: What happened with the ocean surface?
Vexual: Too slow 5 mining?
fluffypony: Vexual: yeah, the cheapskates that chose surface mail had to wait 3 months for their stuff to arrive
punkman: fluffypony: did the usg agent choose surface mail too?
fluffypony: punkman: hah hah yes
fluffypony: Secret Agent Man
punkman: fun
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: Danke
Vexual: Well
Vexual: It really seems anyone in the game is doing the same thing they did 2 yeats ago
Vexual: Shit just works
assbot: Rapamycin And Aging: The Spotlight Shines. In the Pipeline: ... ( )
thestringpuller: oh no. computer is running out of memory due to bitcoin
thestringpuller: using up 80% of memory
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: What are you running bitcoin on?
Vexual: Did vulpes try compile on ppc? Or does he only run intel macs?
punkman: bitcoind doesn't run on ppc
Vexual: Oh
BingoBoingo: punkman: What makes you so sure?
Vexual: I just read 3 days on x and project ed
punkman: BingoBoingo: not sure, I was looking at some recent patches for big-endian support though
punkman: does it run?
BingoBoingo: Just because it doesn't compile as offered doesn't mean and can't be beat into it.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo a machine with only 1gb of ram
BingoBoingo: Haven't tried don't have any PPC macs around at the moment
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: No the OS
thestringpuller: Debian 7
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: What about setting a process memory usage limit and scripting the restart process after it gets killed?
Vexual: I stopped buying macs when they went intel
Vexual: They are glittery worky nao tho
Vexual: I guess x11 is the sameish
Vexual: Best deleted
Vexual: still it rots somewhere like steves stonewash, feigning importance
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: An affliction that unburdened by
Vexual: I'm
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: I will try it again at some point ~_~
thestringpuller: i had to kill it too much memory
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55100 @ 0.00037987 = 20.9308 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Well, you can restart it nao. The memory consumption was fatherless bastard blocks. Should restart with low RAM usage before creeping up and needing killed again. This can be repeated until you reach the present.
Vexual: What are you running it on thestringpuller?
thestringpuller: The computer is a decade old Vexual
Vexual: Noice
thestringpuller: Was an old gaming rig now turned server cause it has SATA/IDE/SCSI
thestringpuller: so I just connect lots of drives to it
Vexual: Thatd have cost a pretty penny
Vexual: Back in the day. Crossroads of storage
thestringpuller: yea, but i guess problem is if this computer is slow at getting current block this raising blocksize thing ain't gonna fly
Vexual: Will it raid?
thestringpuller: like computers grow on trees or some nonsense
thestringpuller: I've never used the built in raid controller. I dunno if I could find the software needed to run it that way since I'm pretty sure the mainboard company is now defunct ~_~
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127200 @ 0.00037509 = 47.7114 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: How many meg blocks are even?
Vexual: Miners seem to prefer 250k
Vexual: Yad need some friends and private fibre to mine 20 meg block
assbot: Elizabeth Warren Balks on Opportunity to Act on Federal Reserve Criticisms | ... ( )
thestringpuller: dat scoopbot downtime tho
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: The block reward gets smaller, fees will come into it
Vexual: Who will wait around for 1 meg?
Vexual: We don't even know what a block is worth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123265 @ 0.00037159 = 45.804 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Cupid Off Target This Valentine’s Day, Causing Massive Penetrating Traumas | GomerBlog ... ( )
Vexual: I thought massive penetrating trauma happensvwhen cupid is in full effect
BingoBoingo: who knows?
Vexual: Trauma isn't necessarily bad
Vexual: is it not just sone sudden change ?
Adlai: how about "an uncomfortable recalibration of one's comfort zone"
Vexual: That works
Vexual: Deal with it
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: Anyway I'm off to sleep in the dirt
Adlai: don't forget to take off your shirt
Vexual: I would have if you hadn't mentioned itt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116950 @ 0.00038573 = 45.1111 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: gooood mornin' terrines y terreurs
danielpbarron: to give some idea of how much faster solid state drive is vs a 5400 rpm drive, it caught up to a weeks worth of blocks in about a day
danielpbarron: height=183012 vs height=181378 currently
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156450 @ 0.00036457 = 57.037 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: impressive.
danielpbarron: it's around the 180k mark that it all slows down
kakobrekla: i wonder what goes longer way towards 'inclusiveness', the big blocks or cheap nodes
mircea_popescu: this is a legitimate question.
mircea_popescu: obviously, both. in what proportion ? well...
mircea_popescu: but that was the camels/donkeys thing exactly.
assbot: Deputies: Hundreds of teens storm Ocoee theater | News - Home ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the stormteens ?
chetty: a general breakdown of civilized behavior ..seems to be getting worse
mircea_popescu: i dunno... kids breaking into the movies seems pretty civilised.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22047 @ 0.00035928 = 7.921 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127404 @ 0.00039539 = 50.3743 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: what's the context of all the "schoolgirls"?
mircea_popescu: nobody actually knows. that pic is about as old as cable modems, but its context lost to the world.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21996 @ 0.00040248 = 8.853 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: << this is epic. so some derp from alba (roguhly romania's equivalent of Indiana) has been a fugitive sought for proxenetism and "creating an organised crime group" for over a year. he's put some derpy rap thing on youtube, and the tv chicks are creaming their pants because "over 1000 views". literally, "peste o mie de vizitatori" = over 1k views.
assbot: Cel mai cautat interlop din Alba a devenit vedeta pe internet - Extern - Observator Antena1 - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: they even have a 5 second delay "connecting" to the "correspondent". who is like, fifty feet away.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56350 @ 0.00037393 = 21.071 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: proxenetism ?
mircea_popescu: hm. pimpery.
asciilifeform assumed it meant 'running a net of spam proxies'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gurlz list << mega-l0l!
asciilifeform: how many, one might wonder, are decoys
asciilifeform: (iirc those are sop on 'sex www' sites)
assbot: X.EUR February 15th 2015 statement | ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9254 @ 0.00037393 = 3.4603 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one so inclined can verify.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, it's kinda fun to watch the slowly seethin anger or "secret" girly venues at this INCREDIBLE IMPROPRIETY.
mircea_popescu: god damned it they have decided fetlife is not to be searched. how dares anyone change this, and how dare they be someone specific!
mircea_popescu: s/or/on/
asciilifeform: mega-weeve
asciilifeform: did this actually get a rise out of somebody ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: post your x86 on the listserv ?
assbot: Clearly there are too many women on Fetlife » Not Just Bitchy ... ( )
assbot: meitar/fetlife-aslsearch · GitHub ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'my educated guess that the search is not offered because they couldn't support it, technically, not for any high falootin' ethical considerations.' << lol, like the thousands of dissertations on 'use of light and shadow' in sistine chapel ceiling
asciilifeform: where did they go when the soot was cleaned off.
mircea_popescu: lol yup.
mircea_popescu: nobody, conveniently, remembers those.
asciilifeform: of course not
mircea_popescu: because, you see, "nobody ever got fired for arguing from pangloss".
mircea_popescu: the ibm thing is just a subset of this.
asciilifeform: 'nobody ever got fired' for being a meatpuppet who blindly imitates their immediate neighbour - yes
mircea_popescu: ascribing intent to happenstance is like ascribing causation to correlation, or ascribing life to movement : it soothes the brain, it makes the world "friendlier"
asciilifeform: but they do deserve a good thrashing now & then
mircea_popescu: only if they're more than meatpuppet.
mircea_popescu: only slavegirl should be beaten for failure, and only exceptional girls should be accepted into slavery.
jurov: !s assbot dividend
assbot: 3 results for 'assbot dividend' :
asciilifeform: even if there is nothing sentient in the muppet that would win from the thrashing - if it is a public one, it will do some good for those who yet might
jurov: kakobrekla, assbot again did not announce mpex dividends
jurov: divs are deprecated now?
mircea_popescu: jurov there was an error which we've meanwhile fixed
mircea_popescu: should appear from thenceforth
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hard to argue with that point.
decimation: asciilifeform: win from the thrashing - if it is a public one << "maim one, educate one thousand"
jurov: also, i can't relate the bitbet dividend (3.21579681) to S.BBET monthly statement that says:
jurov: 3.21579699 BTC minus 1.9624272 BTC substracted due to last month's credit, for a final total of 1.25336979 BTC to be paid as dividends for MPEx(sic!) shares this month.
jurov: i'd suggest mircea to hire someone reliable to do the dividend payouts
kakobrekla: lol is it erroneous again?
decimation: < lol, listen to chumps stuck inside the silly-con valley startup chumpatron grind and squeal about the sudden realization that they are working for nothing
assbot: Ask HN: What up with these startup salaries? | Hacker News ... ( )
mircea_popescu: i carried it.
mircea_popescu: jurov this is quickly developing into my fatal flaw, so i can be like a villain in the movies.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is it theoretically possible that the 3% figure is off on account of gurlz refusing to indicate their sex (or somehow listing it in non-readily-machinereadable form in 'about' biographical box, etc. - is there one?)
mircea_popescu: "sure he can piss everyone off - but he can't actually pay dividends correctly to save his life"
mircea_popescu: there is no way to list it but not list it. they could in principle not list it at all - the problem then becomes that, for our needs, they actually ARENT female.
mircea_popescu: so it's "about 3% out of the first 100k that self identify as female and self identify as under 30yo". for all we know two thirds of that are all labrador retrievers.
asciilifeform: decimation: they were 'working for nothing' long ago, by way of giving up most of their salary to the local real estate chumpatron as a mandatory matter
asciilifeform: decimation: low pay is not the only way to be poor
mircea_popescu: decimation music to my years
mircea_popescu: i mean ears.
decimation: yeah some of the comments are amusing
decimation: "Don't you have faith that we'll be successful?"
mircea_popescu: "not enough to give you my girl, anyway"
mircea_popescu: imagine the market chilling effects of these derps having to actually ask the girl from her father.
mircea_popescu: "o no, it would capsize the economy"
mircea_popescu: what fucking economy ?
decimation: apparently in new york the situation is a little more harsh: "In New York, people have given up on equity. I hear this time and again in the NYC tech scene - building a company is hard in NYC because people don't believe equity is worth anything because of the bullshit that happened in the first bubble. In New York especially, there were a lot of shenanigans with equity in 99/00 bubble/crash era where companies got sold and employees
decimation: got nothing because of liquidation preferences and other things. "
decimation: < wise advice linked in the comments
decimation: "If your gut (or someone you trust) tells you that ANY ONE of the Founders is a bozo, forget it and walk away. They will take you and the company down."
asciilifeform: re: tiny equities: as i understand, scarcely anyone even gets a fixed % of a company now
asciilifeform: because it is generally understood that whatever one gets will be 'homeopathic' quantity after umpteen rounds of dilution
asciilifeform: instead you get 'xxxx shares'
asciilifeform: (of what? who knows)
mircea_popescu: whoever reads the term sheets knows.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : mpex people get fixed %s. everyone else gets shit.
asciilifeform: tale was re: usa rather than mpex, aha
asciilifeform: 'In Silicon Valley, my startup offers over the past two years have ranged from $160-250K with 0.5-0.75% equity.' -- from one comment in above link. and folks read this, and think he's paid 250k in actual money
asciilifeform: why no one ever discusses actual take-home pay ?
asciilifeform: i.e. what remains after -all- the taxation?
mircea_popescu: because the ydo not wish to be depressed.
asciilifeform: the folks in that thread appear to be entirely willing to be depressed
asciilifeform: but somehow continue to studiously dance around the subject of the disease that's actually killing them
decimation: asciilifeform: most of them would agree with moldbug's analysis that they believe paying tax is 'i gave at the office'
asciilifeform: the biggest tax, by far, is the real estate chumpamatic
asciilifeform: and if the folks involved could live in detroit and collect that salary, they would.
decimation: if by 'detroit' you mean anywhere where you could buy a house for less than 100k, you are probably correct
asciilifeform: if they all moved to the actual detroit, the chump harvester would simply move with them
decimation: asciilifeform, all these high salaries 'create jobs', you see
asciilifeform: to follow mircea_popescu's 'ducks and hunters' analogy, the ducks cluster in a flock and get shot together
asciilifeform: it would be interesting to consider what 'refusing to be the duck' would mean for the programmers
decimation: replacement by an indian, either on or off shore
asciilifeform: would they each pick a village and duel to the death with any other who decides to come to town ?
asciilifeform: decimation: as i understand, everyone who could easily be 'replaced by indian' (not always from india proper, but often east eu, etc. and the 'orc' world in general) - has been
mircea_popescu: <decimation> replacement by an indian, either on or off shore << this is like saying your trophy wife that if she quits you, you'll replace her with a masturbation aid.
mircea_popescu: is it supposed to be like a threat or something ?
decimation: if that's true, then why are the chumpers willing to work for $60k (and pay $60k to live)
mircea_popescu: statu quo.
mircea_popescu: why were romanians willing to shiver in the winter in 88 ?
mircea_popescu: !up hegemoOn
decimation: because the chumps to the right and left were also so willing apparently
hegemoOn: thank you mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: re: programmers, the inescapable conclusion is that in usa, their $xxx k-usd salary is merely a 'money laundry' vehicle for real estate racket
asciilifeform: and in no sense anything else
hegemoOn: to talk abour what i know
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, it goes to the thread a few weeks ago about why does usg even bother to tax at all
hegemoOn: in the 90 most bouncer were freelance
assbot: What the actual threat of the medicalisation of individuality looks like pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
hegemoOn: getting high salary
decimation: decimation: it would simplify accounting if your salary just went directly to the local land baron
mircea_popescu: decimation the point for the accounting is to not be simplified. it would also simplify accounting if the two jews "selling" each other the same painting just wrote random numbers of paper.
hegemoOn: but owner of club decided to unit and
mircea_popescu: similarly, it'd simplify accounting if the theatre just closed down. but then...
hegemoOn: create company hiring eastern europe former military guy
hegemoOn: for almostnithung
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah, if individuals had direct control of their wealth, accounting would get quite complex
mircea_popescu: hegemoOn but you understand there's something fundamental about the occupation that makes them servants to the club, right ?
asciilifeform: sorta how medical practice 'could be simple' if pharmacy stocked just cyanide (wagner optional)
mircea_popescu: just like whores are only allowed to work "on their own" in those situations where there's not enough food to go around.
mircea_popescu: same tiems when the cattle's "turned loose"
hegemoOn: and use those instead of freelancer
hegemoOn: thhis is how they break the average cost of security operator
hegemoOn: and even getting money back as far as they were paying for a service to a company they owns
hegemoOn: exactly the same happened in computer land
hegemoOn: in the 90 most computer guy were freelancer
hegemoOn: and then bank/insurance create service company
hegemoOn: which sells them back legion of low cost computer guy
hegemoOn: breaking price by 5 or 10
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, not a bad analogy.
mircea_popescu: muscle, eh /
hegemoOn: and the golden era of computer guy was gone
hegemoOn: here in france we compete with north african cheap profile
asciilifeform: in the 90 most computer guy were freelancer << not in usa...
hegemoOn: who tends to seduce more those service company
decimation: in the usa, 'freelance computer guys' are treated by the tax authorities as tax cheats
mircea_popescu: decimation for good reason.
decimation: whereas real estate agents are not
mircea_popescu: they pose no threat, because their capital can always be confiscated.
asciilifeform: ^ this fact became popularly known on account of the joe stack rampage
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i actually have a post scheduled (for like 6 months now) for day after tomorrow.
hegemoOn: i worked two years and half on transactionnal platform of Ingenico
hegemoOn: paiement services
hegemoOn: and i can really state that lowcost hiring leads to poor result
asciilifeform: 'joe stack day' is 2/18, iirc, no ?
hegemoOn: while hiring better profile would cost a little more on human ressource budget
hegemoOn: but far less in production and exploitation
fluffypony: classic big-company-red-tape
hegemoOn: and communication towards customer which loose money
hegemoOn: exemple of failure : transaction processor which doesn't listen to commit acknowledgment of the sql database
hegemoOn: poor programming indeed
hegemoOn: so plateform considers transaction is archived on database
hegemoOn: when commit has failed
hegemoOn: imagine this situation during 9hours of transaction history of main reteller in uk !
hegemoOn: >63 millions euros lost
hegemoOn: guess who worked to parse all the log and worked with bank to recoved the money from auth message during 3 weeks ?
hegemoOn: me !
hegemoOn: 120 peoples working on this platform and only 10% skilled enough to understand what they do
asciilifeform: hegemoOn: 'Seven dollars an hour, that's what Philip Johnson made / Driving a Wells Fargo truck, he handled millions every day / But you can't be much of a player on 56 bucks a day / Seven dollars an hour, that's what Philip Johnson made.'
hegemoOn: asciilifeform: im not saying that i should earn more from that :)
hegemoOn: im just saying that outsourcing/low cost profile lead to failure
asciilifeform: ( << from song about famous outlaw, as seen here )
assbot: Shades of D.B. Cooper - Los Angeles Times ... ( )
mircea_popescu: hegemoOn if you feel like writing out the details, qntra is looking for more "fiat sucks" failure stories.
hegemoOn: mircea_popescu: facing harrasment from my former client ? :)
hegemoOn: but in a more general level i can explain why it sucks
mircea_popescu: if you don't hurt the things you don't like, you're not really a man.
hegemoOn: on protocol level and transaction life
hegemoOn: and bitcoin will face the same trouble when going to retail world
mircea_popescu: gavincoin will, because gavincoin is fundamentally predicated on the broken proposition of adjusting to the world.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin will be fine. there will be carnage in its wake, but that in itself is a positive outcome.
hegemoOn: i agree about the natural selection process
mircea_popescu: to quote rms, "To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example."
mircea_popescu: except it's not about the fucktard museum that's the nsa, nor about the long dead us generally.
mircea_popescu: it's about plainest morals : please consider if your duty to yourself, as a free man worth two shits doesn't require you to publish all the shit you know.
mircea_popescu: why exactly is the state and its corporations allowed any protection ? worst thing to aid and abet.
hegemoOn: because money
hegemoOn: bunch of money
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: yeah. as fiat becomes worth less and less in actual money, that problem will slowly melt.
mircea_popescu: except, names are made early, not late.
asciilifeform: it's not about the fucktard museum that's the nsa << reminds me, one of these days i gotta pay a visit to... their museum
asciilifeform: knew about it for a decade, but somehow can't bring myself to set foot there
chetty: asciilifeform, get your shots uptodate first, its probably catching
asciilifeform: '4.1 stars! best gassing, will come again'
asciilifeform: 'The parking lots are very large and crowded. It is hard to find a spot, even working the night shift. I think Obama should invest in a parking garage. It is a bit creepy inside the buildings, too.'
asciilifeform: 'If you're invited to the NSA, pay careful attention to the instructions given. If you do not, you will be a big delay to others. If you're not invited to the NSA, please do not go, unless you want to see the Cryptology museum, which is a fascinating place.'
asciilifeform had a colleague once who -did- go, by making wrong turn in traffic, and -did- end up 'a big delay to others' as he was frog-marched into a guardpost and searched
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100263 @ 0.00039975 = 40.0801 BTC [+]
chetty: nothing all that creepy about it, except maybe a certain lack of windows :P
asciilifeform: chetty: there is a specific, highly-ritualized architectural style:
assbot: Logged on 23-08-2014 17:21:36; asciilifeform: (what style? gigantic plate-glass window walls that never let through office light - they're painted black on the inside; the seemingly-mandatory wrought-iron fence, with steel cable trusses - nominally against terrorist trucks (TM); archaically-massive satellite antennae; a few other features broadly known to anyone who looks with any regularity.)
assbot: The Yoke ... ( )
mircea_popescu: oglafbot is best bot
assbot: Removing Libsystemd0 From a Live-running Debian System - Slashdot ... ( )
assbot: SystemD Gains New Networking Features - Slashdot ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ pries open fw ports
asciilifeform: incidentally, folks recommending freebsd as an escape should remember that it's been colonized: gcc is no longer installed by default there, nor are system bins built with it
assbot: FreeBSD 10 To Use Clang Compiler, Deprecate GCC - Phoronix ... ( )
asciilifeform: while we're at it,
assbot: RMS Feels There's "A Systematic Effort To Attack GNU Packages" - Phoronix ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'Other Emacs stakeholders responded with confusion how this could be "a systematic effort to attack GNU packages" and also raised points on how Emacs has support for Microsoft Windows and OS X but wouldn't consider a basic patch for enabling the LLDB debugger to be used. Stallman followed up to say, "These are not similar cases. Neither Windows nor MacOS was intended to push major GNU packages out of use. What I see here appea
asciilifeform: rs possibly to be exactly that. Whether that is the case is what I want to find out."'
asciilifeform: and, lastly,
assbot: Why You Don't See Coreboot Supported By Many Modern Intel Systems - Phoronix ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ the 'won't boot anything not signed by key in antifuse rom' thing - finally arrived.
asciilifeform: to x86 pc.
asciilifeform: (sop on game consoles for decade+)
asciilifeform: (those who believe that it does not matter what is in the bios so long as you can boot your favourite unix, are mistaken. not only can bios diddle your drives pre-boot, but it isn't even necessary - routines like smm handler run continuously, outside of os)
asciilifeform: ^ basic kindergarten facts, at this point, i will not bother to expound on them here
asciilifeform: 'but Richard is seemingly frightened about the compiler competition from LLVM that is out under a permissive free software license.' << fud artist lies through his teeth. rms is not 'frightened of competition under permissive licenses', but is pointing out that organized attack by shitgnomes flying (as always) flags of convenience, is under way.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the bullshit bios problem is actually quite serious
mircea_popescu: for now we can still run old boards. but that won't last forever.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so far problem only exists in winblows/apple world, but it creeps onward - microshit in particular requires it as a condition of doing business with manufacturer
mircea_popescu: course, the measure will backfire,
mircea_popescu: as in, i'll run only stuff signed by... me.
asciilifeform: optimistic.
mircea_popescu: in a sense, so far they're really cutting out our rouad for us.
asciilifeform: 'i don't care if they're stoking up the ovens, they'll go in'
mircea_popescu: well no, the idea is, most of the state effort consists of effort that really helps the republic.
mircea_popescu: hijack all the ships.
asciilifeform: wake me up when a serious usg key leaks.
mircea_popescu: why would a key have to leak ?
mircea_popescu: just use your own antifuse.
asciilifeform: own antifuse ?!
asciilifeform: aka otp rom
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so ?
mircea_popescu: it can be made, right ?
asciilifeform: point being that millions of boxes are permanent thralls to usg until key gets out.
mircea_popescu: the point is not saving some vague and uninteresting group.
mircea_popescu: let them save themselves.
asciilifeform: interestingly, intel and microshit have been salivating for a decaee+ over the concept of a cpu that runs not merely mandatorily-signed but encrypted code (to internal key)
asciilifeform: but for practical reasons this has not yet been achieved
mircea_popescu: fuck, ten billion boxes are pretty much permanent thralls to the first taker on the grounds that there's more holes than fixes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see the problem from the perspective in which it actually -is- a problem: not that a billion people own computer that is not a computer (nowhere is it written that we have to care about this) but in the elementary lack of a practical alternative.
asciilifeform: as in, there is not a 'free world' si fab.
mircea_popescu: kinda what i said : gotta see to this eventually.
mircea_popescu: "I'm an 18 year old currently in my first semester of college at UNM (Studying medicine). All my life I've been a very good girl, pro-feminist all my life, I was in the girl scouts growing up, I got straight As, I don't drink or go out to parties. I found your tumblr the other week and at first I was offended, I don't see how any woman would subject herself to such treatment. I've visited your page multiple times since
mircea_popescu: then and I'm curious how you would go about breaking me out of my shell?"
midnightmagic: it's a trap, get an ax
hanbot: please tell me the response is "i'd put on my robe and wizard hat"
mircea_popescu: i mostly quoted it for the sudden turn towards "breaking out of shells"
mircea_popescu: i wonder if the chick's clever enough to have done this deliberately.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5000 @ 0.00076456 = 3.8228 BTC [+] {15}
thestringpuller: so it's taken me 3 days to get up to 190k blocks...
thestringpuller: why again should I be convinced this computer will be "okay" running larger blocks when it can barely keep up as is...
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the idiot crashy one ('classic', with memleak) or the one with questionable patch ('orphanage burner') ?
thestringpuller: classic with memleak
thestringpuller: i keep having to kill and restart
thestringpuller: but its at least working
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: also remember that the 'magic' of gavincoin was that it will work on existing hw, so long as 'everybody agrees' to throw away blockchain history and surrender
thestringpuller: you told me not to patch in orphanage burner yet.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: that's correct
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: in general, i'm opposed to patching in gavinisms of any description
thestringpuller: oh and block propagation is going to be "0" with bloom filters or something
asciilifeform: especially ones i fished out of the sewers in a hurry, for purposes of experiment.
thestringpuller: ^- you make yourself sound like Dr. Frankenstein sometimes.
asciilifeform: it's a 'frankensteinian' project by nature, whatcanido.
thestringpuller: I wonder what discoveries you've made we don't know about <.<;;
thestringpuller: the splitting image of Dr. Moreau! :D
asciilifeform: less said about these, better sleep at night, l0l
thestringpuller: moar frankensteinian would be ripping out Boost completely, not that that is feasible (but neither was reanimating the dead)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if you're gonna go to that level of mutilation, may as well abandon the pedigreed-descent-from-0.5.3 thing and go for rewrite
thestringpuller: i kno rite? funny how these kidz praise satoshi's "code know-how" yet all these things...
asciilifeform: you can't really pull out 'boost' and retain the naked-eye-plus-patch-util sense of 'this is visibly bitcoind pre-$10-per but with minor changes' thing
thestringpuller: we should just rewrite it in assembly.
asciilifeform: by popular demand (everybody who's ragging on 'boost') a musical interlude:
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> thestringpuller: also remember that the 'magic' of gavincoin was that it will work on existing hw, so long as 'everybody agrees' to throw away blockchain history and surrender << this, especially.
asciilifeform: serious work in cpp is quite impossible without something functionally much like 'boost'.
asciilifeform: was -never- possible
mircea_popescu: "make bitcoin accessible to everyone by saying it's really a bottle of tide, and letting procter and gamble manufacture it"
asciilifeform: for so long as that abortion of a language existed.
asciilifeform: talk to a game dev who was active in the '90s
thestringpuller: ^- Oh yea
asciilifeform: he'll show you, perhaps, his outfit's homegrown warty version of 'boost'
thestringpuller: ^- Oh yea x2
asciilifeform: my brother, for example, had one
thestringpuller: Look at HL Goldsrc as prime example.
asciilifeform: (was game dev in that period)
thestringpuller: or even UDK from that era
asciilifeform: some were cleaned up and 'productized'
asciilifeform: cannot speak for the quality, but the demand - was there
asciilifeform: is still there.
asciilifeform: the language 'naked' is entirely unusable
asciilifeform: for anything but trivial 'homework'
thestringpuller: this is why Naughty Dog builds the object layer in LISP
assbot: Loper OS » The curious incident of the Lisp in the night-time ... ( )
asciilifeform: also note that that outfit, like many others (yes, it isn't in 'nyt', but still existed) wrote a miniature 'college' lisp-flavoured scripting language inside their normal runtime
asciilifeform: which is entirely not the same thing as a product developed and shipped in a standardized, adult common lisp system (what naggum earned his bread with)
asciilifeform: yet for some odd reason these activities are lumped in together
asciilifeform: i, for one, didn't fully grasp the difference until i heard that charlatan (baggett) speak
thestringpuller: i see. i just found it amusing game developers would rather not write C++ at all
asciilifeform: junkyard dogs, the lot of them, who found something valuable and stole a piece
thestringpuller: the PS2's C++ interface was...not fun...
asciilifeform: like the barbarians who carved up roman mosaics for sword hilt 'bling'
asciilifeform: you can see the results in museum
thestringpuller: sound similar to using microscope as hammer
thestringpuller: maybe different side of coin
asciilifeform: nice heavy electron microscope
asciilifeform: makes great drop-hammer
thestringpuller: "this ruins the microscope"
asciilifeform: more valuable than any particular microscope, even the rarest, is the -idea- of a microscope
asciilifeform: it takes more than one 'blacksmith' and his 'hammers' to ruin that, but eventually - yes, ruined.
asciilifeform: but to go back to the basic point of the musical interlude,
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this article is gold. Dave Baggett elaborated more in the comments.
asciilifeform: 1) the idea of tearing out 'boost' while retaining the 'satoshi cleanup' concept of therealbitcoin project - is a total impossibility
asciilifeform: 2) tearing out 'boost' while keeping the project in cpp will turn it into an unreadable morass of crud that makes the existing turd look like the finest sausage
asciilifeform: (how? let's start with those iterations, every single one of which will suddenly need a nonsense variable; all the things that will have to be declared for the occasion, that presently are genericized; etc)
thestringpuller: like a dyslexic spider weaving a web.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: background for that article: herr baggett came to my town once, and gave a public talk where he pitched a militantly idiotic 'startup' (nothing whatsoever to do with games, a weird proprietary, closed-source email client with 'new, exciting, unprecedented' spam filter that is a poor clone of 1990s state of the art)
asciilifeform: i was utterly floored by the sheer imbecility
asciilifeform: and apparent sincerity
asciilifeform: there were two logical scenarios that formed in my head, 1) he did the things he was credited for, and somebody then came and scooped out his brain 2) he didn't, took credit after someone else did, was the kind of fellow selected for this next stage of meritwash
asciilifeform: i must point out that i have no idea whether 1 or 2
asciilifeform: but was unable to come up with any plausible 3 whatsoever.
thestringpuller: game developers are kind of like rappers, after a certain age their "hip-ness" runs out.
thestringpuller: see Coolio
asciilifeform: no idea if this has anything to do with age, or the fact that games industry died.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36263 @ 0.00040405 = 14.6521 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: the indie developers killed it
asciilifeform: which 'indie developers'
asciilifeform: the ones sharecropping under apple?
asciilifeform: or valve?
thestringpuller: At least Phil Fish isn't being merit washed.
thestringpuller: The latter.
thestringpuller: indie dev's line up to suck Gabe's cock even if he can't see it.
thestringpuller: also notice how carmack is slave to Zuckerberg now.
asciilifeform: ^ how apple meritwash works
thestringpuller: that's some clockwork orange shit right there
asciilifeform: that, if it isn't obvious, is a 'review farm.'
asciilifeform: and something like this is quite inevitable when a product degenerates to that level of necessary attention span
thestringpuller: this is why freemium games are the work of the canadian devil
asciilifeform: where the practical distinction between a satisfied user and a spammer who wrote a review in exchange for a bowl of rice and a day's pass from the sex slave farm, is purely academic
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: ah and this is probably why the whole GamerGate thing occurred last August.
asciilifeform confesses that he could not be bothered to unravel the how-and-why behind that particular wankage
asciilifeform: it was utterly incomprehensible to the uninitiated.
thestringpuller: the uproar is what is interesting. uproar over people who don't matter.
punkman: ^ my thoughts: "who the fuck are these people and why is anyone writing about their sex life"
thestringpuller: punkman: exactly!
asciilifeform: in other news,
asciilifeform: 'gnat' appears to be entirely unbuildable on gentoo
asciilifeform: having succumbed to shitgnomism years ago.
asciilifeform: (and before anyone asks, no, it is not a simple matter to build it from source like any other thing. needs an existing gcc configured to play ball in order to bootstrap itself)
punkman: asciilifeform: do you have any machines running coreboot?
asciilifeform: punkman: as a matter of fact, i do
asciilifeform: punkman: but none of them feature 'consumer pc' hardware
punkman: I grabbed a couple of T60s to give it a go
asciilifeform: wintel answered the threat posed by 'coreboot' et al by stuffing shitgnomism straight into the silicon (southbridge, and soon cpu proper)
assbot: Gentoo Packages /package/dev-lang/gnat-gpl ... ( )
asciilifeform: sanity is a losing battle on x86.
asciilifeform: jurov: it
asciilifeform: or actually, no
asciilifeform: gnat-gcc
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $450 before 31st Mar" Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.7053 BTC. Current weight: 65,203.
asciilifeform: jurov: what's more, it dies without any kind of informative message at all.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $30 before April" Odds: 7(Y):93(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 14.99351 BTC. Current weight: 61,431.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.93457636 BTC. Current weight: 52,366.
asciilifeform: 'make[5]: *** [unwind-dw2.o] Error 1' seems to be the boojum
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46500 @ 0.00039975 = 18.5884 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: random question. If someone paid for you to take Buterin's C4 (Certified Bitcoin Professional) exam, would you do it?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what'd be the point of this exercise ?
thestringpuller: so qntra can report on the derpage?
asciilifeform: re: gentoo: is it just me or did most of the ports mirrors die in the past 2 or so weeks ?
asciilifeform: as in, gone ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it is unlikely that anyone would wish to pay what this costs.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: try one of the un/under-employed folks around here
assbot: Certified Bitcoin Professional (CBP) | CryptoCurrency Certification Consortium (C4) ... ( )
jurov: thestringpuller why alf specifically?
jurov: and how much?
thestringpuller: cause he is guaranteed to pass it. i guess others too. but he was the first that came to mind.
jurov: lol. as if one cannot fail and write about it?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller was probably thinking of their other exam, re: internals of bitcoind, but iirc it is only available to the select few
thestringpuller: my biggest hesitation is the coin goes directly into the waterfall i.e. hands of enemy
thestringpuller: (Buterin is one of directos of C4)
jurov: internals of bitcoind? like, the whip out the cane, point to line test?
jurov: doubt even satoshi himself would pass
jurov: "Duration: 2 years" (from the CBP link) how do i parse this?
jurov: that's enough for master's degree :)
jurov: aaaahh i saw "renewal fee" and it clicked.. apparently they plan to make bitcoin obsolete after 2 years?
jurov: i think i can take it, if paid. hence, how much?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119394 @ 0.0004044 = 48.2829 BTC [+]
jurov: linux-unwind.h:138: error: field 'info' has incomplete type << asciilifeform haven't you missed this? (from gnat.txt)
jurov: going off, laters!
thestringpuller: jurov: .2xxx btc I'll pay it...for freedom of press and stuff.
thestringpuller: cazalla: I guess we should discuss potential article from findings if this goes through.
cazalla: thestringpuller, i just sat down then so need to catch up on logs etc
cazalla: smashed my iphone in a burst of anger so.. no more apple products here (ipad already went out the window)
asciilifeform: jurov: eagle eyes, ty
asciilifeform: jurov: << interestingly, ancient issue, afaik never fixed.
assbot: Bug #4295: Issue between aspectator and new glibc at different architectures - C Instrumentation Framework - Open-Source Projects ... ( )
cazalla: an utter absolute shit morning, sometimes it would be nice to be a shut in hermit with nobody with 10km
asciilifeform: cazalla: for our edification, care to describe the burst of anger ?
cazalla: asciilifeform, the why doesn't really matter.. lesson here is not to have 2fa on device you often have with you if prone to smashing things
asciilifeform: iirc, mircea_popescu is also a 'smasher'
asciilifeform wonders if he's the only fella here who has never rage-smashed a keyboard, pNohe, pNablet, ..., etc
cazalla: asciilifeform, the sound of breaking glass is actually quite soothing
danielpbarron yells at his iphone on a daily basis
danielpbarron: will be the last "smart" phone i ever buy (also happens to have been the first)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57100 @ 0.00040674 = 23.2249 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> i carried it. << btcauditor when
assbot: Bug 536124 – dev-lang/gnat-gcc-4.4.7 - In file included from .../work/gcc-4.4.7/gcc/unwind-dw2.c:333: .../work/gcc-4.4.7/gcc/config/i386/linux-unwind.h:138: error: field ‘info’ has incomplete type ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ yes, apparently documented bug
asciilifeform: ^ message to all shitgnomes: somewhere, in a forest, a pine tree is growing
asciilifeform: that will one day be cut down, at around two metre's height, and sharpened.
asciilifeform: (the stump, that is)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42609 @ 0.00040978 = 17.4603 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ever time you sit down and submit a patch to something-or-other, knowing that it might silently break proggys used by actual people,
asciilifeform: think about that tree.
asciilifeform: and the arse it was born to slide into.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16741 @ 0.00041322 = 6.9177 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00041322 = 8.1818 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> <mircea_popescu> i carried it. << btcauditor when << i guess once Pierre_Rochard gets bored of new york ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^ message to all shitgnomes: somewhere, in a forest, a pine tree is growing << Why pine?
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
PeterL: hi BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: birch works too
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: need the right thickness.
asciilifeform: not many birches in gringolandia though
thestringpuller: PeterL: is scoopbot okay?
BingoBoingo: Birches out here. My concern though was perhaps a tree with decent Urushiol content like cashew.
PeterL: doesn't look like it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that just looks like an ordinary day at the dentist's.
thestringpuller: Dentist puts cock in your mouth?
PeterL: thestringpuller: It seems to be misbehaving since I added your blog?
thestringpuller: its cause I use tumblr :(
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: no cock in the photo
thestringpuller: cock will be inserted at some point, that is the purpose of device no?
thestringpuller: to keep mouth open despite insertion of cock
asciilifeform: or drill
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: like the barbarians who carved up roman mosaics for sword hilt 'bling' << once upon a time, thinking this is particularly romanian, wrote a romanian article about it
mircea_popescu: then i learned better.
asciilifeform: srsly, i'm pretty sure i've had that very gag in
asciilifeform: at the dentistinquisitioner's
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dja feel dirty yet ? :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37600 @ 0.00041322 = 15.5371 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: the indie developers killed it << no, they didn't. what killed it was the complete inability of the new generation to do any sort of useful work WHATSOEVER
mircea_popescu: even for their own amusement.
mircea_popescu: people born in the 50s played rogue for fun
mircea_popescu: people born in the 70s can scarcely cluck at the ipad screen without some sort of "CONGRATULATIONS!!1"
asciilifeform: wai, where
asciilifeform: 80s - rogue
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what's the difference?
asciilifeform: 90s - scarcely clutch
mircea_popescu: * numbers might not be exact
asciilifeform: 70s - 'advent'
asciilifeform: 60s - solved gnarly integrals for phun
thestringpuller: at least the 60s had better access to drugs?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller so usa-centric
thestringpuller: born 'an raised
thestringpuller: asciilifeform mircea_popescu people still play nethack for fun :P
asciilifeform: 'nethack' and other 'roguelikes' (anyone recall 'angband' ?) are sorta timeless
mircea_popescu: ^ marriage.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: and something like this is quite inevitable when a product degenerates to that level of necessary attention span << has nothing to do with the product, everything to do with the society.
mircea_popescu: in a world made out of equal idiots who don't have gpg sigs, THAT is the only possible human activity.
asciilifeform: ^ the activity shown in the chinese photo, in particular, yes.
asciilifeform: aka meatpuppetry.
thestringpuller: there will always be mechanical turks
asciilifeform: though, strictly speaking there are two activities (the other being that of the meatpuppeteer, of course)
mircea_popescu: only for as long as the concept that "people can have ideas" and "tim swhatever knows hopw normal debates work"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is not as different as it seams.
mircea_popescu: the difference between a goat and a goat herder is certainly not apparent to any passing lady of society.
asciilifeform: in as much as he too would rather be elsewhere - aye
assbot: Bitcoin Average Block Size ... ( )
mircea_popescu: no. inasmuch as *elsewhere* can tell.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: so qntra can report on the derpage? << reporting on the idiocy is doing it more service than it deserves in any perspective.
mircea_popescu: simple strategic thinking : first, let them put some skin in the game, by for instance creating a "Bitcoin Consultancy"
mircea_popescu: then, let them go into business, by for instance signing a contract to "save" Bitcoinica
mircea_popescu: THEN ruin them utterly, so that everyone involved still, to this day, can't get work like Strateman.
mircea_popescu: this is how you deal with aspirational muppets, not by reporting on their idiocy.
mircea_popescu: jurov: doubt even satoshi himself would pass << why do you think he pulled a runner.
PeterL: a fool who keeps his mouth shut is counted wise
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller> my biggest hesitation is the << your hesitation is correct. at this stage qntra wouldn't report on that shit even if *they* paid.
assbot: ACM Classic: Reflections on Trusting Trust ... ( )
asciilifeform: mats: you just met this ?!!
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: THEN ruin them utterly, so that everyone involved still, to this day, can't get work like Strateman. << MagicalTux falls in this category. I don't think any of the DERP lists have management with WoT identities.
thestringpuller: (F.DERP listings that is)
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> iirc, mircea_popescu is also a 'smasher' << keyboards tho.
mats: asciilifeform: yes :(
mircea_popescu: thompson's self-diddling compiler is mentioned in the logs on a ~5 month period
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38800 @ 0.00040421 = 15.6833 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up tardstalker
assbot: American Benjamin Miller gored by bull at Ciudad Rodrigo's Carnaval del Toro in Spain yesterday | Daily Mail Online ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.0003992 = 12.1956 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Madison Co. judge accused of racial abuse indicted ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'The attorney for Charles Plumpp said Weisenberger arrested and jailed her client, who is African American, on the nonexistence charge of "roaming livestock."'
BingoBoingo: It's like one of those Russian skits on Usian racial policies in the 1950's
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or a judge that 'needed to have problems' for some reason unknown to us
asciilifeform: how do you suppose they line up the pliant judges
asciilifeform: by wishing really hard ?
BingoBoingo: Most country governments tend to let the judges go a bit feral
asciilifeform: when it sums to harmless.
punkman: roaming livestock is no joke
asciilifeform: put the bull back in his yoke
assbot: Alleges Theft Of 7170 BTC | ... ( )
punkman: (spotted local news the other day about idiot that let his sheep wander all over some town, they rounded them up, will charge him 50eu per head to get them back. or to the butcher's if he doesn't claim them in 2 weeks)
asciilifeform: punkman: 50eu per head << what are they worth, approximately ?
punkman: more than that
asciilifeform: presumably
asciilifeform: but how much
punkman: I suppose you can get a decent sheep for 150-200
asciilifeform: qntra article << wai wat, there are/were actual companies registered in virgin islands? not merely mail boxes for sp4mz0rz ?
punkman: wrong, actually more like 110-120 for 1 year old sheep in local classifieds
assbot: Muhammad Sex Simulator 2015 - Encyclopedia Dramatica ... ( )
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> how do you suppose they line up the pliant judges << good point this.
mircea_popescu: cazalla lmao they had 7k btc like roger ver has what to pay the gas bill with.
asciilifeform: his gas bill will be complimentary of usg
asciilifeform: or if kitchen gas - then yes
assbot: Metro-east news from Belleville, IL | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( )
mircea_popescu: lmao js paywall.
mircea_popescu: the layers of idiocy srsly.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i expected the 'request' to be for hanging rather than electric chair, or the like
asciilifeform: (when else does fat of the prisoner play a part)
BingoBoingo: tits for the one's who've been in there a while to play with?
asciilifeform: unrelated, gnat-gcc-4.6.4 does in fact build.
mircea_popescu: << if anyone's looking for a good 40s film.
assbot: Ossessione pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: State owes some Illinois State Police troopers $10,000 each : State ... ( )
mircea_popescu: << apparently consensus has been poorly understood by the supreme court no less, as early as 2002.
mircea_popescu: "if we like it it
mircea_popescu: 's consensus!"
mircea_popescu: "The Court pays lipservice to these precedents as it miraculously extracts a “national consensus” forbidding execution of the mentally retarded, ante, at 12, from the fact that 18 States–less than half (47%) of the 38 States that permit capital punishment (for whom the issue exists)–have very recently enacted legislation barring execution of the mentally retarded. Even that 47% figure is a distorted one. If one
mircea_popescu: is to say, as the Court does today, that all executions of the mentally retarded are so morally repugnant as to violate our national “standards of decency,” surely the “consensus” it points to must be one that has set its righteous face against all such executions. Not 18 States, but only seven–18% of death penalty jurisdictions–have legislation of that scope."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24809 @ 0.00041073 = 10.1898 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: the libertard is a particularly insidious totalitarian, in that he doesn't even admit his outright enmity to liberalism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60781 @ 0.00041505 = 25.2272 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.00042132 = 16.8317 BTC [+]
assbot: dgerard comments on Famous Bitcoin shill Andreas Anontopolous will attempt to convince the DPR jury into buying bitcoins. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: so : the powerless have decided that the way to attack me is through... google bombing.
mircea_popescu: but since they do not wish to o may gawd promote my stuff with their impotent brownian motion, they use some sort of google juice filter (no idea if it works).
mircea_popescu: think about that for a minute : google bombing through a google separator.
decimation: asciilifeform: that 'intel boot guard' is scary
ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> asciilifeform: random question. If someone paid for you to take Buterin's C4 (Certified Bitcoin Professional) exam, would you do it? << wait, CBP is a Buterin project?
mircea_popescu: ;;google don't go chasing butterfalls
gribble: Chasing Waterfalls - VISITvortex: <>; Watkins Glen State Park - Watkins Glen, NY | Yelp: <>; Buttermilk Falls Campground (Shunk, PA) - Campground Reviews ...: < (1 more message)
assbot: TLC - Waterfalls - YouTube ... ( )
cazalla: lol trilema is do not link on buttcoin?
cazalla: i guess that is no unexpected from a bunch of idiots who ban me from commenting in their subreddit but upvote qntra anyway
BingoBoingo: Well reddit is all nofollow links anyways
mircea_popescu: i don't think google actually honors those.
mircea_popescu: it mines them for info, yes, but it doesn't actually give the users any power.
BingoBoingo: Prolly depends who is implementing it.
mircea_popescu: would be contrary to what they do generally, anyway.
BingoBoingo: Google does't act generally anymore though
BingoBoingo: That's why it is so broken
assbot: Whoops | Hans Reiser Is Innocent ... ( )
mircea_popescu: then again, i don't see any of the "Global Warming ? opps!" "QE ? oops!" etc posts from the libertards, so i guess a slightly cleaner toad is still the prettier princess.
assbot: LifeIsSoSweet comments on Using Mike Hearn's Bitcoin XT instead of Bitcoin Core as full node took just a couple of minutes. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "Cantidad dormitorios: 2 / Cantidad baños: 3"
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is Departamentos Diarrhea then ?
mircea_popescu: no shits left behind!
BingoBoingo: Nah, It's American style. Bathrooms are the new show of affluence
mircea_popescu: and yet you savages still don't have cunt basins as a regular fixture, amirite ?
BingoBoingo: Indeed, that would make each bathroom more expensive.
mircea_popescu: s/"what could one possibily need THAT for"/"what is oral sex???"/
BingoBoingo: The goal in contemporary American home architecture as espoused by HGTV is concealing from visitors the set of bathrooms used for actual bathroom functions
decimation: mircea_popescu: it's now common in modern us 'tract' homes that the build has no air vent in the kitchen
BingoBoingo: These are a people for whom hiring professional cleaners even annually is considered a luxury expense.
mircea_popescu: so the 3rd is actually for guests ?!
mircea_popescu: holy shit why, because stray pubic hairs ?
decimation: the 'replacement' is a recirculating fan with a 'filter' that doesn't work at all
mircea_popescu: because no one may be a maid so nobody ever cleans a bahtroom so htey're filthy ? why ?
mircea_popescu: decimation but you can just open the window neh ?
decimation: sure, when it's -10C
mircea_popescu never liked kitchen air vents. they generally favour infestations.
decimation: the reason they lack them is apparently because the builders could be liable for the kitchen fires that happen when nobody cleans out the air vent pipe
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> holy shit why, because stray pubic hairs ? << That and lingering urine smells, because "Clean when I moved in" is good enough to not justify cleaning ever again for the more degenerate Pindos
BingoBoingo: decimation: I find it lulzy when I encounter stovetop vents that pump air into the freezer
decimation: BingoBoingo: eh?
ben_vulpes: my stovetop vent vents into the apartment.
BingoBoingo: decimation: a few places I've seen the kitchen stovetop vent fan pipes air in the the neighboring fridge's freezer compartment because... Who fucking knows anymore
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> and yet you savages still don't have cunt basins as a regular fixture, amirite ? << why's the shower so inadequate?
decimation: BingoBoingo: sounds like they were 'supposed' to install an outdoor vent, and ended up installing nothing
BingoBoingo: decimation: Nah when you open the freezer while using the stove at a friend's place you get a definite fog of steaming out of the freezer. The only justification I can thing of is the hope freezing smells sequesters them?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: post your x86 on the listserv ? << any reason to not run with -xeu?
decimation: the real estate chumpatron in the us is finely tuned to prevent any actual person from being involv[\
decimation: ed with
decimation: supervising the design and construction
assbot: ./ in c-plus-equality/c-plus-equality (cefcfb4276889bd3833c539225a9cdfd3eb16d33) - Gitorious ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes << it's not, provided it specifically ISNT an usian shower
mircea_popescu: but instead the civilised model with 3 meter's worth of flexible chord.
decimation: those can be retrofit into us showers but are definitely 'out of fashion'
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before April 2015" Odds: 24(Y):76(N) by coin, 25(Y):75(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.0401 BTC. Current weight: 98,721.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> those can be retrofit into us showers but are definitely 'out of fashion' << Plenty of them in Nursing homes and higher end hotels (i.e. the ones foreigners can afford)
mircea_popescu: so how exactly is a woman supposed to wash standing while being rained upon ?
mircea_popescu: bleach her snatch ?
mircea_popescu: here's a hint : female genital washing mostly involved dilution not soap.
mircea_popescu: it's self-soaping, the vagina.
ben_vulpes: i've always been amused by the "bend over and get it wet" approach, but i'm a total noob.
mircea_popescu: if you think about it for a second, you realise what a fucking scandal this is.
mircea_popescu: "bend over and get it wet with stuff that washes off your arsehole"
decimation: I like the 'shower with a hose' because it makes it simple to rinse off the shower after cleaning
mircea_popescu: every usanistan obgyn that is not insane treats sporadic uti in healthy females the same way : "get a proper shower woman!"
mircea_popescu: the rest prescribe windex or w/e the fuck.
decimation: or they hand out antibiotics
mircea_popescu: decimation i suspect you lived (as in, with women) long enough to know exactly what antibiotics do to their bits ?
ben_vulpes: i am not accustomed to being responsible for female cleanliness!
danielpbarron: there's this commercial they keep airing about a product for women who have "swagger" which is apparently code for "fat smelly vag"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is more like management than execution.
decimation: mircea_popescu: they also ruin the gut fauna
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wai wat !?! where did you see a freezer with an air inlet hose, and can you swear that you were sober ?
mircea_popescu: yes, but you can't just throw some yogurt into your cunt.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform honestly i just skipped over all that, it's too insane.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 61462 @ 0.00005056 = 3.1075 BTC [-] {16}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Rental house in southern Illinois. When there I am frequently drunk but been there enough times to verify this sober while cleaning.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so what happens at the joints ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: who sells this? and can you describe that it looked like ?
mircea_popescu: 3 inches of styrofoam?
assbot: RepHresh Pro-B Probiotic Feminine Supplement Capsules | Walgreens ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the land of the free, where stupidity creates a whole industry!
mircea_popescu: i guess it must be good for the economy.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Silver hose come out of wall goes into freezer. Snake sent throug hose strikes over stove fan.
asciilifeform: some demented builder
asciilifeform unable to think of, much less find on net, any possible justification for this
decimation: that pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard
decimation: for one thing, venting into a closed box means that there's no venting
mircea_popescu: i still can't make sense of it.
mircea_popescu: no condensation around the hose ?
ben_vulpes: bb's trollin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63807 @ 0.00041437 = 26.4397 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 231.14, Best ask: 231.48, Bid-ask spread: 0.34000, Last trade: 231.48, 24 hour volume: 29169.04151104, 24 hour low: 227.75, 24 hour high: 267.92, 24 hour vwap: 246.426429178
asciilifeform: re: gnat: 4.6.4 builds but actually attempting to use yields 'gnatgcc: fatal error: -fuse-linker-plugin, but not found'
asciilifeform: ^ does anyone other than me care
asciilifeform: if not about gnat, the overall state of decay.
decimation: asciilifeform: what are you trying to compile that is written in ada?
asciilifeform: 'hello world'
BingoBoingo: about decay yes. WFT "fix" was important enough to kill this
asciilifeform: who wants to laugh, but there are precisely two programming languages in existence which are 1) standardized and 2) you can -actually write complete systems- using -the language described in the standard-
asciilifeform: two and only two.
mircea_popescu: ada and lisp ?
asciilifeform: common lisp
asciilifeform: and yes - ada.
decimation: asciilifeform: even usg has abandoned ada
decimation: but not because it failed to serve a purpose
asciilifeform: (pet peeve of mine - 'lisp' (or worse, the '60s-ism LISP) is a hopelessly nonspecific term that encompasses languages that differ from one another far more even than 'algol' differs from 'c')
asciilifeform: decimation: usg, interestingly, did not entirely abandon. but under pressure from microshit (primarily) relaxed the ancient laws
asciilifeform: avionics, power plant controls, the like - systems whose failure reliably produces piles of corpses and messy 'pr' - are still very heavy on ada.
BingoBoingo: Also sun when they were monied enough to bezzel up Java
decimation: presumably they do not use gcc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49000 @ 0.0004195 = 20.5555 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: decimation: actually - they do
asciilifeform: or rather, the ada component of gcc is based on the ancient usg-commissioned thing
asciilifeform: an ancient usg
decimation: I doubt they use x86 for such purposes either
asciilifeform: thing is mainly architecture-agnostic, interestingly
asciilifeform: (no big surprise to folks accustomed to gcc)
BingoBoingo: ^ most good things are architecture agnostic
asciilifeform: i advise folks to learn enough ada to understand why something quite like it is necessary.
asciilifeform: it is more or less the antithesis of the 'hip language'
asciilifeform: in being tremendously unpleasant to work in
decimation: the problem is that many of the promises of ada cannot be kept by the underlying hardware
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2450 @ 0.0007311 = 1.7912 BTC [-] {18}
asciilifeform: situation today is that most folks would not even notice a promise broken by hardware
asciilifeform: because it can be reliably blamed on softs.
asciilifeform: you more or less have to present a smoking cratered cpu to make others believe in 'it was the hardware'
decimation: yeah that's a good point
asciilifeform: there are interesting things to be learned from the ada approach, if you can pinch your nose and get past the 'ick factor'
asciilifeform: for instance, all error messages refer to a page in the rationale book
asciilifeform: (in traditional implementations)
asciilifeform: buffer overflows, pointer fandango, etc. - are impossible
asciilifeform: ^ without requiring a bulky 'runtime'
TheNewDeal: ;;Later tell TomServo sorry I missed you last evening. Went out for some drinks and left my irc on. Will be back thursday evening
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: just what the doctor ordered for proggys whose behaviour (and error modes) must follow rigorous spec, or user - dies.
thestringpuller: a canadian appears
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah there's much to like in this approach
mod6: asciilifeform: in your portotronic script, the line `make STATIC=1 -f makefile.unix bitcoind` ends up doing "-Wl,-Bstatic ... -Wl,-Bdynamic" when actually executed because of the bug in the makefile.
decimation: asciilifeform: there's also ARINC standard 653 if you want an RTOS along with your ada
asciilifeform: mod6: odd. because i ended up with proper static linking
asciilifeform: mod6: did check the elf
mod6: is it appropriate to do `make LMODE="static" LMODE2="static" -f makefile.unix bitcoind` instead?
decimation: actually it would be interesting to know exactly what hardware is used in modern avionics
mod6: asciilifeform: no, i didn't im currently rebuilding.
mod6: sec...
mod6: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes might have the same problem with his, is there something he should be specifically looking for in the elf?
thestringpuller: jurov: PM me about how to go about renting aws instance.
asciilifeform: $ armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi-readelf --dynamic bitcoind-armv5-bastard
asciilifeform: Dynamic section at offset 0x3f3874 contains 32 entries:
asciilifeform: Tag Type Name/Value
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: 0x00000001 (NEEDED) Shared library: []
asciilifeform: [detail snipped]
asciilifeform: so everything but the std libs is statically linked in
assbot: Just how stupid is the Redditard crowd ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
punkman: asciilifeform: is "z" not used, noticed you removed it from portatronic
mod6: i thought we didn't want to use shared libs? only static libs *.a's
asciilifeform: punkman: zlib is only demanded by the retarded version of boost
asciilifeform: forget after which date
asciilifeform: it isn't used in bitcoin, no.
asciilifeform: mod6: i overlooked the std lib stuff, was satisfied with not seeing openssl, boost, bdb. but you are quite right, this is not a proper static elf
asciilifeform: see if you can produce one.
mod6: ok. no problem. just trying to get it down to a spec
mod6: workin on it :)
decimation: asciilifeform: < "Safety-critical applications may need a certifiable OS. That's not one meant for an asylum, but one that can, for tolerable costs, be shown to conform to a standard like DO-178B. The costs are staggering; the certification process for one app I know of generated half a page of documentation per line of code."
assbot: RTOS dissatisfaction | Embedded ... ( )
asciilifeform: fortunately we are not interested in usg certificates.
assbot: µC/OS-III Overview | Micrium ... ( )
asciilifeform: but 'half a page of docs per line' is about what ought to be expected of 'therealbitcoin' when mature.
asciilifeform: decimation: yes. and i can't say that i am interested in any future direction of 'c os' on 'c machines'
asciilifeform: incl. it.
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: yeah, 'half a page of docs per line' is pretty much the same as your 'what does this line do?' test
asciilifeform: not quite
BingoBoingo: <decimation> have you played with << Wild guess here, but would bet at the right odds, FreeBSD userland on Minix like microkernel
assbot: µC/OS-III Overview | Micrium ... ( )
asciilifeform: the test is, in my imagination, an exam given in real time, in the flesh
asciilifeform: that is, reactive and unpredictable.
asciilifeform: like soviet exams
mircea_popescu: someone's been reading on punishments.
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, of course, but the student must learn from something
asciilifeform: now that it came up, mircea_popescu did have a 'punishments' article that used something like that formula
ben_vulpes: "disproportionate" is in there too.
asciilifeform: iirc it was 'disproportionate, unpredictable,'
asciilifeform: and something else
mircea_popescu: ah, unrelated ?
mircea_popescu: well, sanity neverthleess.
asciilifeform: but yes related
asciilifeform: an exam is something like a punishment (for what? for having not yet demonstrated mastery, of course)
asciilifeform: not the same, but related, as a ladder is to a staircase
assbot: Inconvenience | Bingo Blog ... ( )
mircea_popescu: apparently it only exists in romanian anyways
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform impredictable, disproportionate and visible.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which incidentally is the missing point in the supreme court discussion of punishment quoted as it happens earlier
mircea_popescu: they fail to consider that punishing the mentally retarded is a signal FOR EVERYONE
mircea_popescu: including the non-mentally retarded.
mircea_popescu: it's quite ridoinculous what sort of compartimentalised nonsense they sprout. you'd flunk senior hs essays for this
decimation: for this reason the us should bring back hangings and should televise them live
asciilifeform highly recomments the historic tour 'seeing justice done' by p. friedland. one of the very few good works on the subject
mircea_popescu: decimation i dunno if i descreibed it or not, but i think so : the prison zoo.
asciilifeform: of the hows and whys of public executions in europe from 800 or so ad to present
asciilifeform: !s zoolag
assbot: 10 results for 'zoolag' :
mircea_popescu: torture people behind the glass, force highschoolers to visit yearly.
asciilifeform: yeah this was described
asciilifeform: beautiful idea.
decimation: I would prefer 'torture' to be 'hard labor, gulag style'
decimation: but that's difficult to capture through a window
assbot: bitcoin/bitcoinrpc.cpp at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: bitcoin/rpcblockchain.cpp at v0.7.2 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( )
BingoBoingo: <decimation> I would prefer 'torture' to be 'hard labor, gulag style' << Quality punitive torture can leave souveniers
decimation: for thieves, embezzlers, etc it gives a good yardstick
decimation: 'pay back yer debt in coal'
mircea_popescu: sure. dig a yard of trench per dollar embezzled.
mircea_popescu: it's healthy, too. most usians could immensely benefit from more exercise, especially if nude under the nude sky.
ben_vulpes: wai wut? i thought bezzling was a good thing.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so is digging.
decimation: heh. only if you are in on it
ben_vulpes: end of times and all that fun stuff.
punkman: I was making a case for "sentence all members of parliament to 30 years hard labor" yesterday at dinner, "but what of the innocent ones"
assbot: Scroguard | Less Worry. More Fun. ... ( )
cazalla: mircea_popescu: yes, but you can't just throw some yogurt into your cunt. <<< but you can throw some yogurt out of it!
assbot: PhD Student Creates Yogurt Using Her Vagina ... ( )
punkman: ben_vulpes: I don't get it
asciilifeform: !s menstrual cookies
assbot: 0 results for 'menstrual cookies' :
assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - The state of Ada on Gentoo ... ( )
decimation: the 'forced exercise' idea reminds me of a passage in the 'rise and fall of the third reich': "The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road between Aachen and Brussels one saw
decimation: the contrast between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean-cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth – tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars."
BingoBoingo: !up julmac
mircea_popescu: cazalla eww
mircea_popescu: punkman lol the innocent ones. splendid.
ben_vulpes: punkman: me neither.
assbot: Set Your E-mail Free ... ( )
mircea_popescu: dude where the fuck do anglos pull their data from. 0.4% BAC = LD50 ?!
asciilifeform: wai wat ?!
mircea_popescu: in the Romania i grew up, being drunk BEGAN at .3
mircea_popescu: you need like... i dunno, 5% or so to fucking die of it.
asciilifeform: is that value for man even
asciilifeform: or field mouse
mircea_popescu: i tyhink it may be for feminist.
mircea_popescu: for the sake of argument, 0.4% means 32 ml of alcohol in the 8 liters of blood ? srsly ?
mircea_popescu: so when i drink a liter of 52% moonshine over a night my liver takes out 50ml/hour while carefully keeping total blood alcohol under 30 least i die ?
BingoBoingo: Not even breakfast
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Just How Many Drinks A Day Is Bad? ... ( )
mircea_popescu: But legal driving limit is usually .08%. And 50% of the time, .4% is death, so there's that.
mircea_popescu: i wish to know these 100 people out of whom 50 died of .4% bac.
TheNewDeal: offhand, does anyone remember the name of usagi's gold company?
danielpbarron: heh i was just reading about that; it's at the start of the public logs
asciilifeform: considering -who- typically dies of EtOH overdose, consider comorbidities.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal sadly, no. lessee
danielpbarron: and it was silver, not gold; unless he had another thing i'm not aware of
decimation: asciilifeform: the 'RTEMS' os < supports ada, is open source, but is written in C
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal he did silver. tu.silver
decimation: it's based on some ancient usg code
asciilifeform: decimation: written in c, isn't a unix - hence uninteresting
TheNewDeal: there's a company in the us called "amagi metals" and for some reason I thought that rang a bell
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's a point
decimation: apparently there are varying levels of posix support in actual flight systems
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal they have been trying to trade for bitcoin with moderate success.
TheNewDeal: you're aware of amagi?
decimation: asciilifeform: I suppose that if one really wants an os written in ada that 'fits in head' - one should write it himself
decimation: after all, a program that manages to boot the target and run an infinite loop is a basic os
asciilifeform: decimation: not even asking for an os
decimation: yeah I know you weren't, but I thought it was an interesting question
asciilifeform: decimation: just for gnat to build, from source, on my particular, unremarkable gentoo box
asciilifeform: the way printed on the box
mircea_popescu: "a pleasurable activity which needs outside incentives"
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